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(ABC) NewsFlash The worst case scenario has occurred: NYU Medical Center has lost all power and oxygen supplies. Hundreds of people, including newborns and children, are being evacuated   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 833
    More: NewsFlash, NYU Medical Center, New York University, Medical Center, emergency power system, NYU Langone Medical Center, New York Presbyterian Hospital, New York Fire Department, Weill Cornell Medical College  
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12977 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Oct 2012 at 1:20 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2012-10-30 02:55:12 AM  
from the other thread ....

oi47.tinypic.com
 
2012-10-30 02:56:46 AM  

mikaloyd: Medic Zero: Your first two guesses would be wrong because hospitals test their generators every month.

Every week by law here


I like that law. Basic life safety is something every libertarian worth the air he breathes can support. It preserves life without fraud or force.
 
2012-10-30 02:57:23 AM  
CBS NY just reported that the Bouys in NYC hit their highest mark ever during High Tide - 32' above sealevel. The previous record was 26'.

Also, New Jersey, where the storm landed, had it's lowest barometric pressure reading since they kept records.

Again, folks, this was way, way ahead any reasonable estimation.
 
2012-10-30 02:58:34 AM  
I'm completely baffled by all this criticism about failing generators. This is one of the worst storms/floods in NY history, and people are going apeshiat because some generators are failing?

The hospital is being evacuated right now, tonight. There may be life lost, but New York is one of the most densely populated cities in the world, casualties are inevitable.

When hospitals in New York start euthanizing patients because there is no one to help evacuate them, then I'll get worried.
 
2012-10-30 03:02:55 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: It takes serious effort, planning and skill


Not really. Not if, as in this case, the party in question is legitimately stupid.
 
2012-10-30 03:03:08 AM  
NYU update from CBS New York:

Pace of evacuations are increasing as most critical people have been moved. Most patients are being moved to Cedar-Sinai. No answers as to why the generators failed. Is orderly and calm so far.
 
2012-10-30 03:03:39 AM  

quickdraw: [The city natural gas] distribution system needs electricity to work.


That's kind of dumb. Where I live the natural gas distribution system runs on natural gas.
 
2012-10-30 03:03:42 AM  
The involved houses on Ocean, Fulton and Gotham Walk are completely burned to the ground in Breezy Point. FDNY command at the scene is reporting heavy fire on two of the three fronts they've been able to attack the fire on.
 
2012-10-30 03:04:10 AM  

keytronic: I'm completely baffled by all this criticism about failing generators.


For the most part its just immature bravado. A particularly desperate response in the face of fear. They will say to themselves that they are "just trolling" but its really just whistling past the grave yard.
 
2012-10-30 03:04:56 AM  

Yoyo: quickdraw: [The city natural gas] distribution system needs electricity to work.

That's kind of dumb. Where I live the natural gas distribution system runs on natural gas.


No it doesn't. It needs electricity to work. Really.
 
2012-10-30 03:05:30 AM  

Somacandra: BronyMedic: Considering NYU is a level IV surgical NICU, and those babies are completely dependant on specialized, very large machines to keep them both warm and alive, yeah. It's a big freakin' deal. The cold alone can kill a medically fragile baby very quickly.

Couldn't have said it better. These are the most vulnerable of the most vulnerable in place that was especially designed for them. This is in fact a really really big deal.


Curious...

with the impending storm coming (and storm surge) could they not be moved to another facility ahead of time that was less likely to go on the blink?

/not snarking
 
2012-10-30 03:06:54 AM  

keytronic: I'm completely baffled by all this criticism about failing generators. This is one of the worst storms/floods in NY history, and people are going apeshiat because some generators are failing?

The hospital is being evacuated right now, tonight. There may be life lost, but New York is one of the most densely populated cities in the world, casualties are inevitable.

When hospitals in New York start euthanizing patients because there is no one to help evacuate them, then I'll get worried.


If you came to that opinion from this thread, please read backwards.... pretty much one person did that and a whole lot of people, me included (a lot) took the bait and then the thread went sideways because (I need to be careful here so I don't get deleted) that guy was very skilled in the art of seeming like a completely ignorant dick.
 
2012-10-30 03:07:02 AM  

cuzsis: Somacandra: BronyMedic: Considering NYU is a level IV surgical NICU, and those babies are completely dependant on specialized, very large machines to keep them both warm and alive, yeah. It's a big freakin' deal. The cold alone can kill a medically fragile baby very quickly.

Couldn't have said it better. These are the most vulnerable of the most vulnerable in place that was especially designed for them. This is in fact a really really big deal.

Curious...

with the impending storm coming (and storm surge) could they not be moved to another facility ahead of time that was less likely to go on the blink?

/not snarking


When moving a patient that may die just from the transport you dont do it unless you know for sure you have to.
 
2012-10-30 03:07:54 AM  

Medic Zero: doglover: eraser8: Neonatal

WhyteRaven74: Neonatal

BronyMedic: WTF is a NICU, anyway?

Many tanks.

[images.wikia.com image 300x243]

Well technically yes, the Mr. Picky in me wants to say that the US Army designated some of those Scout Cars to get around funding restraints. ;)


Scratch that! "Combat Cars", not Scout Cars - shouldn't post while distracted by work!
 
2012-10-30 03:08:39 AM  
The newsfails are becoming hilarious. The Weather Channel's cute girl just had to walk off screen to fix the green screen display. Some levity with this is nice.
 
2012-10-30 03:09:17 AM  
(This comment has been removed)
 
2012-10-30 03:10:49 AM  
Oh funny thing: Today last year we had an early-season Nor'easter that closed schools and shut down most of New York (including where I live).
 
2012-10-30 03:11:40 AM  

Genevieve Marie: Bad things happen.


But less of them when you don't feed the trolls.
 
2012-10-30 03:11:41 AM  
TIME.com @TIME
U.S. Banks waive overdraft and ATM fees for customers in path of Hurricane #Sandy | http://ti.me/SU6347 (via @TIMEBusiness)

Shark Found In Front Yard As Hurricane Sandy Floods New Jersey (Unverified) Link

BBC Breaking News @BBCBreaking
#Bounty crew member dies after tall ship hit by storm #Sandy off North Carolina. Captain of ship is still missing http://bbc.in/SYnMqU

More New Jersey sharks (Looks fake) Link

Picture of the day Link
 
2012-10-30 03:14:04 AM  
Damn that Queens fire looks really bad on msnbc right now
 
2012-10-30 03:16:16 AM  

Coelacanth: TIME.com @TIME
U.S. Banks waive overdraft and ATM fees for customers in path of Hurricane #Sandy | http://ti.me/SU6347 (via @TIMEBusiness)

Shark Found In Front Yard As Hurricane Sandy Floods New Jersey (Unverified) Link

BBC Breaking News @BBCBreaking
#Bounty crew member dies after tall ship hit by storm #Sandy off North Carolina. Captain of ship is still missing http://bbc.in/SYnMqU

More New Jersey sharks (Looks fake) Link I've seen this one before, quite a while ago.

Picture of the day Link

 
2012-10-30 03:16:43 AM  

Coelacanth: More New Jersey sharks (Looks fake) Link


I don't know about the first shark pic, but that one is almost certainly fake. Looks like the same shark from that one pic with the shark at a flooded mall or something.
 
2012-10-30 03:16:49 AM  
They learned nothing from Katrina and Ike! Really. Come on. Put the generators above the third floor. Evacuate the neediest patients. What the fark?
 
2012-10-30 03:18:42 AM  

No_Good_Name: They learned nothing from Katrina and Ike! Really. Come on. Put the generators above the third floor. Evacuate the neediest patients. What the fark?


Quick! Call them up and give them your valuable insight! What are you doing wasting your time on fark? Youre clearly a very highly skilled expert in disaster prep.
 
2012-10-30 03:20:19 AM  

No_Good_Name: Put the generators above the third floor.


The problem isn't the generators. It's the fuel supply. Now if you can convince NYC that a few thousand gallons of diesel in an enclosed space inside a hospital building isn't a major fire hazard, well, go you.
 
2012-10-30 03:20:37 AM  

quickdraw: No_Good_Name: They learned nothing from Katrina and Ike! Really. Come on. Put the generators above the third floor. Evacuate the neediest patients. What the fark?

Quick! Call them up and give them your valuable insight! What are you doing wasting your time on fark? Youre clearly a very highly skilled expert in disaster prep.


No, but I work in a hospital that has yet to fully recover from Ike. That was five years ago, there has been a chance for others to learn from our mistakes.
 
2012-10-30 03:21:47 AM  

WhyteRaven74: No_Good_Name: Put the generators above the third floor.

The problem isn't the generators. It's the fuel supply. Now if you can convince NYC that a few thousand gallons of diesel in an enclosed space inside a hospital building isn't a major fire hazard, well, go you.


Store it with the Oxygen
 
2012-10-30 03:22:08 AM  

Smeggy Smurf: Seige101: Smeggy Smurf: Typically backup generators fail when the fuel supply is disrupted. Building codes don't allow for the diesel to be stored inside the building without extraordinary measure being taken. Those measures are always cost prohibitive. So the fuel will most likely be in some sort of underground cistern. The likely source of the power failure is the pumps for the generators have been damaged.

There really is no good solution to the problem with current technology. I wish there was but that's not in the foreseeable future.

/architect

How about a propane or natural gas generator?

Neither are stable for long term storage and are highly reactive. You can cause an explosion with either of those fuels with a simple industrial accident. Diesel on the other hand is difficult to ignite in such a manner.

If you're really interested in fuels storage I'd recommend you spend some time researching aviation fuel farms. Most of what I deal with are 500 gallon storage tanks for grocery stores.


Curious to know where you work... 'cause I'm thinking we share a common circle.

Curious... but not expecting you to tell me. 'Cause... of course... I wouldn't tell either.

/Superintendent
 
2012-10-30 03:22:23 AM  

mikaloyd: Store it with the Oxygen


What could possibly go wrong?
 
2012-10-30 03:22:50 AM  

alienated: Damn that Queens fire looks really bad on msnbc right now


They've got 170 firefighters on it now. Field command is requesting a 6th alarm. Notes that they're having serious water problems.
 
2012-10-30 03:24:55 AM  
fire and flooding is bad, bad,bad, bad

www.math.montana.edu
 
2012-10-30 03:25:25 AM  

cefm: This is what happens when you ask someone to install a backup generator instead of asking someone to plan for the appropriate way to deal with likely scenarios that would cause an extended power outage.

The hospital just said "backup generator and fuel? Got 'em!" and thought they were done. What they should have done is asked themselves what scenarios are most likely to cause major power outages, and pretty high up the list would be tropical storm flooding. At that point they might have realized that having the diesel tank below ground level in the area that would be flooded MIGHT not be the best idea.

Also, unless you regularly test generators at full load (actually turn them on and run the building on them) then you might as well not have one at all because it will probably break.


and this is one of the many reason medicine shouldn't be a business!
 
2012-10-30 03:26:21 AM  
It is the frustration of it all. No one wants to think that the worst can happen. But thinking that more might have been done is just overwhelming. I can't solve anything, I just wish that more could be done.
 
2012-10-30 03:27:16 AM  
FDNY dispatch just asked if they heard correctly that field command was requesting a 6th alarm. Sounds like they can't even believe what's happening.
 
2012-10-30 03:27:42 AM  

No_Good_Name: quickdraw: No_Good_Name: They learned nothing from Katrina and Ike! Really. Come on. Put the generators above the third floor. Evacuate the neediest patients. What the fark?

Quick! Call them up and give them your valuable insight! What are you doing wasting your time on fark? Youre clearly a very highly skilled expert in disaster prep.

No, but I work in a hospital that has yet to fully recover from Ike. That was five years ago, there has been a chance for others to learn from our mistakes.


It's not the same situation at all. Even though its a hospital in a hurricane - they really are completely different. The main problem with NOLA was the delay. It was very odd. Fark was one of the very few places you could get any news about NOLA at all - there was this bizarre disconnect. I remember reading the stuff on fark and being absolutely horrified. A co-worker asked me what was wrong and she didn't believe me because the regular news outlets werent covering it. It took 2 full days for the media to catch up to reality.

During those 2 days a lot of very bad things happened. This is another situation entirely. They did the best they could but you cant keep fuel containers inside a building (fire safety) and you certainly dont want to move them into the open just before a hurricane comes through.
 
2012-10-30 03:27:56 AM  

themeaningoflifeisnot: Notes that they're having serious water problems.


Not to mention those winds ...
 
2012-10-30 03:28:17 AM  

themeaningoflifeisnot: alienated: Damn that Queens fire looks really bad on msnbc right now

They've got 170 firefighters on it now. Field command is requesting a 6th alarm. Notes that they're having serious water problems.


If it's the fire in Breezy Point, it's in a private community on the ocean. The houses are mostly vacation homes, and they're built really close together.
 
2012-10-30 03:28:52 AM  

themeaningoflifeisnot: FDNY dispatch just asked if they heard correctly that field command was requesting a 6th alarm. Sounds like they can't even believe what's happening.


I heard that too. Sounds really bad.
 
2012-10-30 03:29:18 AM  

No_Good_Name: It is the frustration of it all. No one wants to think that the worst can happen. But thinking that more might have been done is just overwhelming. I can't solve anything, I just wish that more could be done.


that it is. Afterwards, you can see the little things that can be improved. Small changes... and each one is a dagger. It's trial and error. You don't know what can go wrong until it does.
 
2012-10-30 03:30:36 AM  
I am not in NOLA.

quickdraw: No_Good_Name: quickdraw: No_Good_Name: They learned nothing from Katrina and Ike! Really. Come on. Put the generators above the third floor. Evacuate the neediest patients. What the fark?

Quick! Call them up and give them your valuable insight! What are you doing wasting your time on fark? Youre clearly a very highly skilled expert in disaster prep.

No, but I work in a hospital that has yet to fully recover from Ike. That was five years ago, there has been a chance for others to learn from our mistakes.

It's not the same situation at all. Even though its a hospital in a hurricane - they really are completely different. The main problem with NOLA was the delay. It was very odd. Fark was one of the very few places you could get any news about NOLA at all - there was this bizarre disconnect. I remember reading the stuff on fark and being absolutely horrified. A co-worker asked me what was wrong and she didn't believe me because the regular news outlets werent covering it. It took 2 full days for the media to catch up to reality.

During those 2 days a lot of very bad things happened. This is another situation entirely. They did the best they could but you cant keep fuel containers inside a building (fire safety) and you certainly dont want to move them into the open just before a hurricane comes through.


I'm not in NOLA. That frustrates me more. I survived Ike. And we did little to learn from Katrina. I would have hoped that others would have learned a bit more than we did.
 
2012-10-30 03:31:01 AM  

No_Good_Name: It is the frustration of it all. No one wants to think that the worst can happen. But thinking that more might have been done is just overwhelming. I can't solve anything, I just wish that more could be done.


I hear ya. It is very distressing. I too wish there was more I could do.
 
2012-10-30 03:31:23 AM  
Just got to this thread. The amount of arm-chair quaterbacking going on here is astounding. I don't know it it's more funny than pathetic or more pathetic than funny.
 
2012-10-30 03:32:10 AM  

themeaningoflifeisnot: FDNY dispatch just asked if they heard correctly that field command was requesting a 6th alarm. Sounds like they can't even believe what's happening.



That's heartrending.

I hate, hate, hate that this is happening.
 
2012-10-30 03:32:18 AM  
Ya know who else needed a bunker? At least he built one...
 
2012-10-30 03:33:44 AM  

No_Good_Name: I'm not in NOLA. That frustrates me more. I survived Ike. And we did little to learn from Katrina. I would have hoped that others would have learned a bit more than we did.


Just wondering - why do you assume nothing was learned? The response to this has been phenomenal. Nothing like the foot-dragging we saw with Katrina. Im sure that Katrina is a big part of why there are so many people in place now doing as much as they possibly can.
 
2012-10-30 03:33:55 AM  

LordJiro: I don't know about the first shark pic, but that one is almost certainly fake. Looks like the same shark from that one pic with the shark at a flooded mall or something.


Instead of any real news, people on Twitter are exchanging the same pictures over and over again. This was the only original one I've seen in the last half hour.
 
2012-10-30 03:35:22 AM  

Yoyo: Kuroshin: quickdraw: Propane is a tricky gas - not at all stable. Natural gas is even worse. Diesel is the most stable which is why they use it for emergencies.

And much higher energy density. Longer run-time.

Sure, but natural gas can be delivered as needed by the city wide distribution system, so there is no storage needed. Was there an earthquake along with the flood that I haven't heard about?


Unless there's a fire in the area and the fire department is asking for the gas to be shut off?

BTW, that request was recently broadcast by the FDNY since some of the structure fires they're dealing with appear to be gas-fed.

In a disaster, it's often unwise to rely on infrastructure to provide your disaster relief.
 
2012-10-30 03:35:27 AM  

No_Good_Name: It is the frustration of it all. No one wants to think that the worst can happen. But thinking that more might have been done is just overwhelming. I can't solve anything, I just wish that more could be done.


I felt that way during Katrina and I was 2000 miles away. Having just ridden out this storm here in Philly, I'd say that for the most part, everyone on the East Coast prepped well for it and no one was caught by surprise. The few major problems -fuel getting fouled, the fire in Queens- are things no one ever could have predicted. The hospital was at least prepared and it sounds like the move went without problem.

We're never going to have natural disaster where nothing goes wrong, but the better prepared we are, the better things go, even if it means (as I did) that you prepare for basically nothing.

/spent $2.00 on ice and $10.00 on batteries
//because I'm generally stocked up on food in case of emergency anyway
///and we've had some BAD winter storms in the last couple years.
 
2012-10-30 03:36:33 AM  

quickdraw: No_Good_Name: I'm not in NOLA. That frustrates me more. I survived Ike. And we did little to learn from Katrina. I would have hoped that others would have learned a bit more than we did.

Just wondering - why do you assume nothing was learned? The response to this has been phenomenal. Nothing like the foot-dragging we saw with Katrina. Im sure that Katrina is a big part of why there are so many people in place now doing as much as they possibly can.


Dumb of me, I agree. It probably would have been worse without what they learned from Katrina. I admit to my frustration at any loss of life that is happening.
 
2012-10-30 03:37:24 AM  
Look, if you're in another part of the country there's no point in driving yourself into an angst frenzy about it right now. There is nothing you can do except wallow in guilt to make yourself feel better. Maybe tomorrow they can use some donations. Also no point in second guessing what they could have done better, if anything. What's done is done.
 
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