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(Huffington Post)   "Siri, who should I fire for the Apple Maps mess?"   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 63
    More: Obvious, Scott Forstall, John Browett, Apple Maps, SVP, Kara Swisher, Don't Bother, Journalism ethics and standards, King James Bible  
•       •       •

6966 clicks; posted to Geek » on 29 Oct 2012 at 10:35 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



63 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-10-29 08:56:12 PM  
FTFA: Forstall has been a major force at Apple since 1997 and is credited with a good deal of the success of the iOS platform and had previously been in charge of the company's Mac OS software releases. However, his leadership role on the half-baked Apple Maps app, for which Tim Cook recently issued a public apology, may have contributed significantly to his leaving the company.

However, TechCrunch argues that Forstall may have made his own decision to step away from his SVP role at Apple, perhaps to "to seek out other opportunities where he might take more of a leadership role."


No. It was the Apple Maps thing. Stop trying to sugarcoat it with corporate bullsh*t. He was in a leadership role and he f*cked it up.
 
2012-10-29 09:15:35 PM  

Fark Me To Tears: FTFA: Forstall has been a major force at Apple since 1997 and is credited with a good deal of the success of the iOS platform and had previously been in charge of the company's Mac OS software releases. However, his leadership role on the half-baked Apple Maps app, for which Tim Cook recently issued a public apology, may have contributed significantly to his leaving the company.

However, TechCrunch argues that Forstall may have made his own decision to step away from his SVP role at Apple, perhaps to "to seek out other opportunities where he might take more of a leadership role."

No. It was the Apple Maps thing. Stop trying to sugarcoat it with corporate bullsh*t. He was in a leadership role and he f*cked it up.


Actually, it's more that Jony Ive hates him. And, supposedly, Forstall tries the whole "treat everyone around you like garbage" that Steve Jobs did, but Jobs could do that, because, well, he was Steve Jobs. Forstall is no Steve Jobs.
 
2012-10-29 09:42:10 PM  
Yes, it is raining.
 
2012-10-29 10:38:34 PM  

Mugato: Yes, it is raining.


Dammit, now some biatch is gonna make me deliver soup again.
 
Slu
2012-10-29 10:39:20 PM  
Quality headline.
 
2012-10-29 10:51:56 PM  
Just how bad was the Apple Maps thing? My old prepaid Metro PCS burner 3+ years ago was absolutely primitive (pre-Android?) and even it had an adequate native Maps app. And most native MetroPCS apps would be considered terrible among AOL alumni. A quick google is only turning up some small beans about the Statue of Liberty.
 
2012-10-29 10:59:23 PM  
Duh. Clearly apple has created a doomsday weather device, intentionally creating Sandy in order to shut down the market for a few days while they announce their staffing changes, expecting everyone to forget about their stock in the wake of the disaster, thus preserving their share price....
 
2012-10-29 11:02:51 PM  
You know, I'm really starting to understand how my hate for Apple is irrational. They're just a company like any other that puts out high quality products.

I'll just read this article with a neutral mind...

"We are in one of the most prolific periods of innovation and new products in Apple's history," Tim Cook said in a statement, per the release. "The amazing products that we've introduced in September and October, iPhone 5, iOS 6, iPad mini, iPad, iMac, MacBook Pro, iPod touch, iPod nano and many of our applications, could only have been created at Apple and are the direct result of our relentless focus on tightly integrating world-class hardware, software and services."

Holy shiat.... I actually miss Steve Jobs now. Tim Cook seriously needs to listen to himself sometime.
 
2012-10-29 11:04:23 PM  
"Siri, who should I fire..."

Impressive use of the pronoun in the nominative case, Subby.

Or maybe it was just ignorance and dumb luck... ;^)
 
2012-10-29 11:11:11 PM  
1. I'm about as anti-Apple as it gets, but I really don't care about this whole map thing. Every company that has done their own maps has had some really screwy stuff in the first version. So what? Having Apple competing with Google, Microsoft, and the rest in this area is a good thing overall. I seriously doubt it was as bad as people are making it sound. I'm anti-Apple mainly because of how Apple is so anti-competitive. But this is a case of the market become more competitive. At least no one is suing anyone over supposedly stealing crap, and Apple isn't trying to claim they invented cartography.

2. So, next year, some guy is going to move from being the #2 or #3 guy at Apple to being #5 or #6. And this is news.
 
2012-10-29 11:11:27 PM  

maxwellhauser: Duh. Clearly apple has created a doomsday weather device, intentionally creating Sandy in order to shut down the market for a few days while they announce their staffing changes, expecting everyone to forget about their stock in the wake of the disaster, thus preserving their share price....


They managed to bump the announcement of Google's new 10" 2560x1600 tablet so that part of the plan worked.
 
2012-10-29 11:16:29 PM  

jonny_q: 2. So, next year, some guy is going to move from being the #2 or #3 guy at Apple to being #5 or #6. And this is news.


Oops... I misread. He's good and fired. oh well. I'm sure he'll land on his feet.
 
2012-10-29 11:16:38 PM  
It's sad to see Mr. Forstall moving but he's had trouble for a long time. If you're a Mac OS X user, he designed Aqua. He has fought the removal of Aqua, and it's liquid-y blue facade the whole way. He's also why the Notes app looks like a yellow notepad and why the Game Center looks like a poker table. It's called "skeuomorphism" and it is considered by a lot of people to be a waste of pixels and breaks the flow of the operating system, especially a clean one like iOS. A lot of people at Apple don't like this trend, and it's nearly all him.

The Maps thing was major-league bungled. But it's not the tech. It was the presentation. It comes down to that iOS6 demo at WWDC (or whenever it was). Rather then just showing it, he made it out to be as clean and perfect as the current version of Google Maps. It wasn't. So people got really annoyed they removed functionality without a replacement. Apple has millions of loyal fans - they would beta test for free if given the chance. "The new Maps application has the Google Maps you love, but if you want new Turn-by-Turn directions and other benefits, beta test our Apple Maps system. Your improvements and suggestions will help as we transition to Apple Maps being our exclusive Maps source." A year or two later you have crowd-sourced, good-as-Google maps. Simple. Clean. But they bungled it.

Mainly, however, Scott did. He was so egotistical he couldn't admit he's wrong - not on the skeuomorphism, not on the Maps changeover, not on moving away from glowing blue buttons. He was not changing with the times. Forstall's replacement for Maps and Siri - the two biggest problems - is Eddy Cue. He scrapped the botched for-pay MobileMe and turned it into the free iCloud, and so far that's been successful. He seems to have a knack for fixing problems.

Apple did another much bigger and much more well-liked personel change too - they fired the Dixon's former head John Brownett who was brought in to replace Ron Johnson in Apple Retail. He was a penny-pinching schmuck who said employees should get "creative" with store maintenance and do it themselves, and said that customer experience should be sacrificed to increase profits. He treated Apple Retail, which has been the single most important vector for Apple save for iPhone for the last decade and was treated it like a five-and-dime. Fark him. Glad he's gone before he soaked the company for too much money. By being fired, he lost millions in stock options.
 
2012-10-29 11:17:08 PM  
I haven't had any issues with ios maps...The turn by turn navigation is actually pretty good.
 
2012-10-29 11:36:24 PM  

D_Evans45: Just how bad was the Apple Maps thing? My old prepaid Metro PCS burner 3+ years ago was absolutely primitive (pre-Android?) and even it had an adequate native Maps app. And most native MetroPCS apps would be considered terrible among AOL alumni. A quick google is only turning up some small beans about the Statue of Liberty.


I don't think it's Apple Maps itself that's the issue.

I think it's the kind-of-slimy move of blocking Google Maps on iOS 6 while forcing Apple Maps on Apple customers that has pissed some people off.

Really, though, I think that's kind of odd for Apple customers to feel upset about the walled garden having walls around it.
 
2012-10-29 11:54:47 PM  
The whole 3-D depictions thing is technologically advanced. I can understand having some problems with that (although you probably should have checked major landmarks in New York City). But if your maps are just functionally wrong and you can't even get transit directions any more, you have no business releasing the product. Shockingly bad. I'm surprised he wasn't fired sooner.
 
2012-10-29 11:56:09 PM  

legion_of_doo: D_Evans45: Just how bad was the Apple Maps thing? My old prepaid Metro PCS burner 3+ years ago was absolutely primitive (pre-Android?) and even it had an adequate native Maps app. And most native MetroPCS apps would be considered terrible among AOL alumni. A quick google is only turning up some small beans about the Statue of Liberty.

I don't think it's Apple Maps itself that's the issue.

I think it's the kind-of-slimy move of blocking Google Maps on iOS 6 while forcing Apple Maps on Apple customers that has pissed some people off.

Really, though, I think that's kind of odd for Apple customers to feel upset about the walled garden having walls around it.


When you brick up one of the windows with steaming dogshiat, people notice.
 
2012-10-30 12:02:22 AM  
I'll miss the color in icons in iTunes but I probably won't miss this kind of stuff:

i.imgur.com

"Skeuomorphism" needs to go the way of the floppy disk icon do-do.
 
2012-10-30 12:06:32 AM  
I don't care about 3D maps. I care about being able to find a farking T station after a 12hr day.

I hope everyone involved ends up never working in industry again. And possibly eating dog food.
 
2012-10-30 12:11:26 AM  

theurge14: I'll miss the color in icons in iTunes but I probably won't miss this kind of stuff:



"Skeuomorphism" needs to go the way of the floppy disk icon do-do.


With a whimper?
 
2012-10-30 01:10:53 AM  
"Siri, who should I fire for the Apple Maps mess?"

Do it like the government: blame the dead guy or lay it at the feet of somebody who was about to retire anyway.
 
2012-10-30 01:38:05 AM  

maxwellhauser: Duh. Clearly apple has created a doomsday weather device, intentionally creating Sandy in order to shut down the market for a few days while they announce their staffing changes, expecting everyone to forget about their stock in the wake of the disaster, thus preserving their share price....


That's absolutely diabolical.
 
2012-10-30 02:58:55 AM  

jake_lex: Fark Me To Tears: FTFA: Forstall has been a major force at Apple since 1997 and is credited with a good deal of the success of the iOS platform and had previously been in charge of the company's Mac OS software releases. However, his leadership role on the half-baked Apple Maps app, for which Tim Cook recently issued a public apology, may have contributed significantly to his leaving the company.

However, TechCrunch argues that Forstall may have made his own decision to step away from his SVP role at Apple, perhaps to "to seek out other opportunities where he might take more of a leadership role."

No. It was the Apple Maps thing. Stop trying to sugarcoat it with corporate bullsh*t. He was in a leadership role and he f*cked it up.

Actually, it's more that Jony Ive AND EVERYONE ELSE hates him. And, supposedly, Forstall tries the whole "treat everyone around you like garbage" that Steve Jobs did, but Jobs could do that, because, well, he was Steve Jobs. Forstall is no Steve Jobs.


FTFY

/The dude was known to other Apple execs as "Chief Asshole"
 
2012-10-30 03:03:35 AM  

legion_of_doo: D_Evans45: Just how bad was the Apple Maps thing? My old prepaid Metro PCS burner 3+ years ago was absolutely primitive (pre-Android?) and even it had an adequate native Maps app. And most native MetroPCS apps would be considered terrible among AOL alumni. A quick google is only turning up some small beans about the Statue of Liberty.

I don't think it's Apple Maps itself that's the issue.

I think it's the kind-of-slimy move of blocking Google Maps on iOS 6 while forcing Apple Maps on Apple customers that has pissed some people off.

Really, though, I think that's kind of odd for Apple customers to feel upset about the walled garden having walls around it.


It's really the first time an iOS upgrade has been this big of a step in the wrong direction. I can't think of a reason I waited on prior upgrades other than making sure a jailbreak was available, but this time I'm just gonna wait it out.

But customers always find a way to biatch about their products. The maps complaint is no different than someone who loads their android with crapware and gripes because it's force closing everything.

/about to switch to a Nexus 4 in March
 
2012-10-30 03:35:05 AM  

Sleazy_as_Pie: But customers always find a way to biatch about their products.


I'm finding that really hard to do when it comes to my (Nameless) smart phone.
 
2012-10-30 04:38:16 AM  
Access Denied
You don't have permission to access "http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/29/scott-forstall-leaving-ap_n_ 2041473.html" on this server.

Reference #18.6cec3e17.1351586258.2cefdd4e

/That explains everything!
 
2012-10-30 05:18:31 AM  

Doctor Jan Itor: Access Denied
You don't have permission to access "http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/29/scott-forstall-leaving-ap_n_ 2041473.html" on this server.

Reference #18.6cec3e17.1351586258.2cefdd4e

/That explains everything!


Huffpo may be down because of what's going on in NYC. The bottom of the island is dark.

Gawker media's down too.
 
2012-10-30 06:16:38 AM  
Long time iphone user thinking of switching to the Nexus 4 when it comes out. Any andriod users have some advice or know of some good blogs I can read up on? I've done some basic googling and like what i've read.
 
2012-10-30 06:44:57 AM  

jjorsett: "Siri, who should I fire for the Apple Maps mess?"

Do it like the government: blame the dead guy or lay it at the feet of somebody who was about to retire anyway.


Or they could hire some black guy and blame him for everything they've done up until now.
 
2012-10-30 07:54:45 AM  
Hope he didn't need to catch a bus to get home.
 
2012-10-30 08:00:13 AM  
This is what I picture Siri looking like:

media.tumblr.com
 
2012-10-30 08:06:46 AM  
Gawker media's down too.

I guess even a dark hurricane cloud has a silver lining...
 
2012-10-30 08:33:53 AM  

DjangoStonereaver: This is what I picture Siri looking like:

media.tumblr.com


All tits and no brains?

I can live with that.
 
2012-10-30 08:34:14 AM  
 
2012-10-30 08:38:34 AM  

saintstryfe: Apple did another much bigger and much more well-liked personel change too - they fired the Dixon's former head John Brownett who was brought in to replace Ron Johnson in Apple Retail. He was a penny-pinching schmuck who said employees should get "creative" with store maintenance and do it themselves, and said that customer experience should be sacrificed to increase profits. He treated Apple Retail, which has been the single most important vector for Apple save for iPhone for the last decade and was treated it like a five-and-dime. Fark him. Glad he's gone before he soaked the company for too much money. By being fired, he lost millions in stock options.


To any UK Farker this is not a shock. Dixons has a rep. Worse than Best Buy.
 
2012-10-30 09:12:32 AM  

Sleazy_as_Pie:
But customers always find a way to biatch about their products. The maps complaint is no different than someone who loads their android with crapware and gripes because it's force closing everything.


Yeah sure, You're a really smart fella...

Maps is preloaded and their API's are tied to it - it's pure shiat for most people outside of the US...
 
2012-10-30 09:15:02 AM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: DjangoStonereaver: This is what I picture Siri looking like:

[media.tumblr.com image 150x225]

All tits and no brains?

I can live with that.


Hmmm...

25.media.tumblr.com

Or...

cdn.pocket-lint.com

Yeah, I'll take Door #1 please.

/it's funny how small the world of porn is even with the Internet...
 
2012-10-30 09:15:38 AM  
Would love a faster phone, but without transit directions I've been holding off on the iPhone 5.
 
2012-10-30 09:18:08 AM  

MrEricSir: Would love a faster phone, but without transit directions I've been holding off on the iPhone 5.


Unless you're really set on an iPhone, why not any number of Android phones with comparable specs?
 
2012-10-30 09:20:21 AM  

SineSwiper: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: DjangoStonereaver: This is what I picture Siri looking like:

[media.tumblr.com image 150x225]

All tits and no brains?

I can live with that.

Hmmm...


The thing is, Ms. Siri Suxx seems to have at least a few braincells in the interviews I've seen with her.

Still:

t3.gstatic.com

Pwhoar!
 
2012-10-30 09:39:28 AM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: MrEricSir: Would love a faster phone, but without transit directions I've been holding off on the iPhone 5.

Unless you're really set on an iPhone, why not any number of Android phones with comparable specs?


I have zero interest in running a virtual machine on a low-power device.
 
2012-10-30 09:45:04 AM  

MrEricSir: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: MrEricSir: Would love a faster phone, but without transit directions I've been holding off on the iPhone 5.

Unless you're really set on an iPhone, why not any number of Android phones with comparable specs?

I have zero interest in running a virtual machine on a low-power device.


Then I guess you really should wait on that iPhone purchase.
 
2012-10-30 10:05:06 AM  
This thread is better than most Apple threads, and I think you know why.

/Thanks
//Sitting at work, no power at home
 
2012-10-30 10:57:41 AM  
Here's video of The Verge covering it live. Happened to break while they were broadcasting.
 
2012-10-30 11:02:51 AM  

born_yesterday: This thread is better than most Apple threads, and I think you know why.


Gratuitous breast pictures?
 
2012-10-30 11:40:27 AM  
So let me get this right: everything Apple completely sucks and anyone who owns one of their products is a complete idiot? Glad I got the memo.

/iPhone5 is still on a 4 week backorder.
 
2012-10-30 01:15:38 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: MrEricSir: Would love a faster phone, but without transit directions I've been holding off on the iPhone 5.

Unless you're really set on an iPhone, why not any number of Android phones with comparable specs?


Why not simply access the same old Google transit directions at maps.google.com?
 
2012-10-30 01:34:32 PM  

legion_of_doo: Really, though, I think that's kind of odd for Apple customers to feel upset about the walled garden having walls around it.


I think it's hilarious. The tards are getting exactly what they have been pushing for.
 
2012-10-30 01:43:25 PM  
I used the Maps app on my phone today to find a municipal courthouse by the street address. I swear to god it put the pin in the middle of a lake.
 
2012-10-30 01:45:49 PM  

Treygreen13: I used the Maps app on my phone today to find a municipal courthouse by the street address. I swear to god it put the pin in the middle of a lake.


Hopefully you did not swim too far before noticing it was incorrect.

Hate when that happens.
 
2012-10-30 01:47:36 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Treygreen13: I used the Maps app on my phone today to find a municipal courthouse by the street address. I swear to god it put the pin in the middle of a lake.

Hopefully you did not swim too far before noticing it was incorrect.

Hate when that happens.


Me too. The 4G service at the bottom of this lake is awful.
 
2012-10-30 02:20:22 PM  

jonny_q: 1. I'm about as anti-Apple as it gets, but I really don't care about this whole map thing. Every company that has done their own maps has had some really screwy stuff in the first version. So what?...


You can have "screwy stuff in the first version" if nobody else has a working version. You aren't competing version 1.0 with version 1.0, but your version 1.0 has to be better than their current version. It's why zune was a punchline, everybody agrees it was a nice mp3 player, but it came out years after the ipod and it didn't do a damn thing better (any feature that was better was crippled to the point of mocking by DRM).

This was Apple's strength for the last 15 years, they wouldn't be the first to market with a new feature, but their version of the feature was infinitely more useful than Microsoft/Android/Dell/Motorola/Creative Labs and so forth.

What makes the snafu even worse, Apple violated their social contract with their customers, Apple says "We won't let you have everything you want, but what we give you will work perfectly."
 
2012-10-30 02:39:30 PM  
Well, I'll be an old fart and admit that I like Aqua, enough that I've held off on OS X upgrades to keep it. A little bit of color makes a big difference in my interaction with the computer. If I have a hung browser, Aqua offers a cue that I don't have in Lion and later.

As for Forstall's obsession with skeuomorphs, I think it worked out well for iOS; for Macs, not so much. He forgot that they are completely different tools. But when all you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail.
 
2012-10-30 04:31:47 PM  
I'm no fan boy, but i do like iphones. I've had 3G, 4 & 4S, but i also have a kindle fire and Samsung 10.1

I'm appraiser and use mapping to find property in Oklahoma.

The apple mapping sucks so bad, I'm really close to buying a samsung.
 
2012-10-30 06:03:27 PM  
A couple of weeks ago I was in an unfamiliar part of town, and foolishly used Apple maps to find me a burrito place. It took me to some random house in a suburban neighborhood.
 
2012-10-30 06:23:01 PM  

Tad_Waxpole: A couple of weeks ago I was in an unfamiliar part of town, and foolishly used Apple maps to find me a burrito place. It took me to some random house in a suburban neighborhood.


How were their burritos?
 
2012-10-31 12:37:36 AM  
I tried using Apple maps. I don't understand Apple. They really had a great thing with Google maps and knowingly put a substandard product in it's place. So much so, I cannot trust it. I called Apple to complain, they say keep using it so we can get better and a fix is in the works. But I bought the product with a working maps application and was switched after I bought to a substandard maps app. They should allow us to go back to what we were happy with, not force this abortion of an app on us.

I really thought highly of Apple and enjoyed using their products. This has hurt the way I feel about the company and think about them. If they are making these kind of substandard decisions, what else are they doing?

Apple...recall the maps app until the bugs are worked out in a voluntary test with people who want to help you crawl before you walk before you run....and give us the real working maps app back.
 
2012-10-31 04:42:59 AM  

Treygreen13: lake


Remember that cute little Asian bloke, a semi famous geek TV personality. Drove his car into a snow drift coz his electronic gadget told him to.

Then he left his wife and kids in the car and walked off. Wearing tennis shows and no pants.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Kim
i46.tinypic.com
 
2012-10-31 06:45:09 AM  
Was amusing to see today twin stories - that Siri can find prostitutes in China (until recently), but not abortion clinics in the USA. Or at least given the linked story, it can tell you where they are supposed to be, but not guide you there I guess.
 
2012-10-31 06:48:42 AM  

yagottabefarkinkiddinme: I really thought highly of Apple and enjoyed using their products. This has hurt the way I feel about the company and think about them. If they are making these kind of substandard decisions, what else are they doing?


Lots and lots and lots of stuff. You just woke up from your Matrix-y dream. Stuff like:

Not having SMS messaging, Exchange, any sense of battery life on the first phone
"You're holding it wrong"
Purple tints on the camera AKA "You're Holding It Wrong II: Electric Boogie"
Forcing users to buy new accessories every model or so
etc.
etc.
etc.
 
Zel
2012-10-31 11:49:49 AM  

Big Ramifications: Drove his car into a snow drift coz his electronic gadget told him to.


I read the story and it claims that initial speculation blamed electronic maps, but the family testified they were using paper maps and didn't notice the fine print that warned not all roads are accessible in winter.
 
2012-10-31 01:20:09 PM  

Zel: Big Ramifications: Drove his car into a snow drift coz his electronic gadget told him to.

I read the story and it claims that initial speculation blamed electronic maps, but the family testified they were using paper maps and didn't notice the fine print that warned not all roads are accessible in winter.

~
Cheers for the update. I scanned his Wiki page before I posted, and I kinda got the feeling that's not how I remembered it beng reported.

Zel: ....the fine print that warned not all roads are accessible in winter.


That's like a plot from a Stephen King story. The Raft springs to mind. Hard to believe it happened in 2006.
 
2012-10-31 02:08:40 PM  
For those needing driving directions, give this one a try if you want an alternative to Apple Maps...

Waze

I like that it's community driven so you get live road updates as it collects info from other users. Users can report hazards, speed traps, etc and they show up as you're driving. It will also re-route you around traffic issues detected or reported by other users when possible.
 
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