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(NBC News)   Long oppressed Kurds get taste of freedom. No whey   (worldnews.nbcnews.com) divider line 26
    More: Interesting, Kurds, Kurdistan Workers' Party, Iraqi Kurdistan, Baath party, language education, Kurdish, Zawiya, cultural identity  
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3564 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Oct 2012 at 2:45 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-29 08:42:48 PM  
30 million Kurds. Largest ethic group without an independent homeland.
At what point does this become yet another war zone??

Have NONE of these dictators learned that repressing the minority groups leads to revolt?
Bread and Circuses!!

How fraking hard is it?/
 
2012-10-29 08:53:26 PM  
Spread out between parts of Iraq, Syria, Iran and Turkey

And so it begins.
 
2012-10-29 10:08:34 PM  
Yes whey.
doubleviking.cachefly.net
 
2012-10-29 10:53:15 PM  
I still have a problem with how the U.S. (my much beloved country) has encouraged the Kurds to rebel yet whenever they have, we seemingly abandon them. Is my perception inaccurate?

Now, there's some smartass Farkers 'round here. There's also some very smart and informed Farkers.

I can deal with the former, would prefer to hear from, look forward to learning from the latter. 

/not the brightest crayon in the knife drawer
//not the dumbest either
///i truly do not like being ignorant
 
2012-10-30 02:47:24 AM  
Turkey isn't going to like this one bit.
 
2012-10-30 02:49:39 AM  
Another group that can achieve self-actualization and then devote all of their time oppressing others in the area and blaming the joos for all of their troubles. Great.

/isn't Middle East 'culture' great?
 
2012-10-30 02:49:58 AM  

sprawl15: Turkey isn't going to like this one bit.


Not that its any business of theirs
 
2012-10-30 02:50:42 AM  

zerkalo: sprawl15: Turkey isn't going to like this one bit.

Not that its any business of theirs


Oh wheyt
 
2012-10-30 02:59:26 AM  

Richard Saunders: I still have a problem with how the U.S. (my much beloved country) has encouraged the Kurds to rebel yet whenever they have, we seemingly abandon them. Is my perception inaccurate?


Kurds are like any other minority - we only care about them when we need to in order to advance US interests. Remember the PKK is a terrorist group because they fight for power in Turkey while the PJAK is a group of freedom fighters because they fight for power in Iran.

The US has no real interest in the Kurds outside of what they can do for us.
 
2012-10-30 03:01:29 AM  

Richard Saunders: I still have a problem with how the U.S. (my much beloved country) has encouraged the Kurds to rebel yet whenever they have, we seemingly abandon them. Is my perception inaccurate?


From my 40 year perspective, if we arm and train some downtrodden population we catch righteous shiat for it. If we don't, we catch righteous shiat for it. If we skip the arming and training, and just do the fighting ourselves, we catch righteous shiat for it. There will always be some large segment of some interest group which considers the U.S. satan, no matter what happens.
 
2012-10-30 03:12:40 AM  
No whey?

Does NOT approve
jpegy.com
 
2012-10-30 03:19:09 AM  

simplicimus: Spread out between parts of Iraq, Syria, Iran and Turkey

And so it begins.


upload.wikimedia.org

Yup. These areas are strongly delineated from Persian/Arab populations outside. They often don't self-identify with their host nation and the nation they're within the borders of may have little government presence inside a Kurdish region. Then again, it's not like the Iraqi government has a lot of presence much of anywhere within Iraq.

They may not care where the border is, either. Might not even know. "It's all Kurdistan here".

The thing to note about the map about is the Kurdish areas of each nation are CONTIGUOUS. As such, it seems simple and practical to many that it should be a nation. A no-brainer. But that's so realistic that all these nations take it as a realistic threat- they'd lose territory, influence, economic interests if the area were to secede.

As such, merely using the name "Kurdistan" is inflammatory language, in some places.

Also, if say Turkey and Iraq let them secede, and Iran and Syria said no, well, a war is inevitable. And that war could not end with simply defeating the Kurdish forces in that country, nothing would change, the incorporated areas of Kurdistan would simply send more troops at a later date. This would ONLY end with either the destruction of Kurdistan as a nation and annexation by someone else, or the utter genocide of Kurds within the country that won't let them secede.

Genocide and basically driving people out is rarely pointlessly "mean". If Syria for example doesn't want to lose their northeast horn simply because Kurds want to take that part of the nation with them based on the claim that they live there, well, if you drive them out, then they don't live there anymore and their claim ends.
 
2012-10-30 03:23:20 AM  
Maybe if these Middle Eastern cultures could realize that clan membership is worthless and oppression of each other benefits neither. We don't need another Israel-style oppressed and agitated minority. Much better would be to have these Kurds integrate into the countries they have citizenship and for those countries to provide them the full rights and privileges of citizens.

This K-cup 'My French Press' gadget is the dumbest farking thing I've seen all night. WTF? Who thought it would be a good idea to put this lousy commercial on TV?
 
2012-10-30 03:29:57 AM  
The Kurds are the largest ethnic group in the world without a homeland, totaling more than 30 million people.

Which has more to do with the fact that Ethnic groups and "homelands" aren't how actual civilized nations have ordered themselves in a century or two than any sort of intentional injustice, I'd imagine.

I mean, I don't enjoy watching them be screwed over any more than any citizen of the democratic west does, but in all fairness some of their problems have stemmed from their dogged insistence on Balkanizing the region and refusing to accept any non-Kurdish authority as legitimate. They're sort of like the white secessionist dudes we've got up in Alaska, but sitting on actual resources and strategically important land so the various governments have to actually do something other than ignore them.

The racial homeland thing, basically, is something they've probably got to give up on if they want to get anywhere with anyone. Though good on the Syrians doing something constructive while Assad is busy losing his war by inches.
 
2012-10-30 03:33:30 AM  

sprawl15: Turkey isn't going to like this one bit.


nope. they sure ain't.
 
2012-10-30 03:34:44 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Maybe if these Middle Eastern cultures could realize that clan membership is worthless and oppression of each other benefits neither. We don't need another Israel-style oppressed and agitated minority. Much better would be to have these Kurds integrate into the countries they have citizenship and for those countries to provide them the full rights and privileges of citizens.


There are deep cultural divides between the Kurds and their largely Arab and Persian neighbors. Much of the time, the Kurds don't even speak the same language, preferring to speak Kurdish. Are you saying their should give up their language for the privilege of integrating into the dominant culture? Or are you the person that's going to go around and convince Iraq, Turkey, Syria, and Iran to adopt more Canadian-style bilingual governments for the benefit of the Kurds?
 
2012-10-30 03:38:47 AM  

Nemo's Brother: Another group that can achieve self-actualization and then devote all of their time oppressing others in the area and blaming the joos for all of their troubles. Great.

/isn't Middle East 'culture' great?


This was my thought as well. Honor killings and associated madness, all an integral part of Kurdish culture. As far as I'm concerned they can go fark themselves and take the Wacky Packy contingent with them.
 
2012-10-30 03:39:59 AM  

Jim_Callahan: The Kurds are the largest ethnic group in the world without a homeland, totaling more than 30 million people.

Which has more to do with the fact that Ethnic groups and "homelands" aren't how actual civilized nations have ordered themselves in a century or two than any sort of intentional injustice, I'd imagine.

I mean, I don't enjoy watching them be screwed over any more than any citizen of the democratic west does, but in all fairness some of their problems have stemmed from their dogged insistence on Balkanizing the region and refusing to accept any non-Kurdish authority as legitimate. They're sort of like the white secessionist dudes we've got up in Alaska, but sitting on actual resources and strategically important land so the various governments have to actually do something other than ignore them.

The racial homeland thing, basically, is something they've probably got to give up on if they want to get anywhere with anyone. Though good on the Syrians doing something constructive while Assad is busy losing his war by inches.


The very idea of creating nation-states is a very slippery slope, and resource allocation is even more difficult. Until we have a one world government that is empowered to redistribute wealth and goods, there is no chance of having all these nation-states living peacefully side-by-side. Water, oil, and arable land are too valuable to all the people involved for there to be peace.
 
2012-10-30 03:41:45 AM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: AverageAmericanGuy: Maybe if these Middle Eastern cultures could realize that clan membership is worthless and oppression of each other benefits neither. We don't need another Israel-style oppressed and agitated minority. Much better would be to have these Kurds integrate into the countries they have citizenship and for those countries to provide them the full rights and privileges of citizens.

There are deep cultural divides between the Kurds and their largely Arab and Persian neighbors. Much of the time, the Kurds don't even speak the same language, preferring to speak Kurdish. Are you saying their should give up their language for the privilege of integrating into the dominant culture? Or are you the person that's going to go around and convince Iraq, Turkey, Syria, and Iran to adopt more Canadian-style bilingual governments for the benefit of the Kurds?


I see... So by my presenting the solution to their problems, it somehow becomes my responsibility to convince them to implement it?

What's so great about having a bi-lingual government ala Canada? What's wrong with a language agnostic government like America?
 
2012-10-30 03:45:52 AM  

Jim_Callahan: Which has more to do with the fact that Ethnic groups and "homelands" aren't how actual civilized nations have ordered themselves in a century or two than any sort of intentional injustice, I'd imagine.


With the notable exception of the carving-out of Israel, of course.
 
2012-10-30 03:53:05 AM  

sprawl15: Turkey isn't going to like this one bit.



Especially with Thanksgiving only one month away.


someone had to
 
2012-10-30 06:42:58 AM  

Gawdzila: Jim_Callahan: Which has more to do with the fact that Ethnic groups and "homelands" aren't how actual civilized nations have ordered themselves in a century or two than any sort of intentional injustice, I'd imagine.

With the notable exception of the carving-out of Israel, of course.


How is that an exception? What country, apart from the US, maybe Canada & Australia, is not based on a notion of ethnic or nationalistic homogeneity? The dissolution of the USSR, the splitting of the Czechs and Slovaks, and current trends in Africa say that the world is not too interested in forging non-ethnic states. Not a bad thing I guess...if they aren't belligerent, so be it.
 
2012-10-30 06:58:46 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: AverageAmericanGuy: Maybe if these Middle Eastern cultures could realize that clan membership is worthless and oppression of each other benefits neither. We don't need another Israel-style oppressed and agitated minority. Much better would be to have these Kurds integrate into the countries they have citizenship and for those countries to provide them the full rights and privileges of citizens.


Oh yeah, it's totally just a Middle Eastern thing.

s10.postimage.org

s11.postimage.org

That, or you're a bit racist.
 
2012-10-30 10:49:19 AM  

zerkalo: sprawl15: Turkey isn't going to like this one bit.

Not that its any business of theirs


The Kurdish separatist group the PKK has been killing Turks for 30 years. The Turks believe, not unreasonably, that the Kurdish separatists in Syria are part of the same group of terrorists. To the Turks, that makes it their business.
 
2012-10-30 10:57:22 AM  
The Kurdish regions in northern Iraq were some of the safest and most peaceful after Saddam was disposed. They were well organized and valued education.

It seems that they are on the path to becoming a country one way or another. The whole Middle-East is still in the midst of an upheaval, and there will likely be some border redraws and a few more new countries before this is over.
 
2012-10-31 01:29:28 PM  
Picture of aforementioned oppressed Kurds: 

electron.mit.edu
 
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