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(Discovery)   Did the Soviets cover up the deaths of cosmonauts prior to launching Sputnik or Yuri Gagarin's mission? Don't know, but "phantom Soviet cosmonaut" is a cool Halloween costume   (news.discovery.com) divider line 91
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6845 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Oct 2012 at 2:05 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-29 12:32:10 PM
Ground control to Major Tomovich...
 
2012-10-29 12:34:35 PM
Dibs on Phantom Soviet Cosmonaut as a band name.
 
2012-10-29 12:43:14 PM
www.fybertech.com

I hate phantom spaceman!
 
2012-10-29 12:59:08 PM
Of course they did. Hello!
 
2012-10-29 01:06:59 PM
2.bp.blogspot.com

Not amused, citizen.
 
2012-10-29 01:08:19 PM
This is an old conspiracy theory, but it does have some merit to it.
 
2012-10-29 01:29:54 PM
After having seen that documentary footage in Apollo 18, there's no doubt in my mind.
 
2012-10-29 01:43:51 PM
Wow, that's a lot of words to answer the initial question with "nah".
 
2012-10-29 02:06:53 PM

CraicBaby: Ground control to Major Tomovich...


Take your cyanide pills and put your helmet on
 
2012-10-29 02:06:56 PM
Эй! Кто выключил свет?
 
2012-10-29 02:07:03 PM
"Hey! Who turned out the lights?"
 
2012-10-29 02:07:41 PM
Short answer: yes. Long answer: yeeeeeesssssss.

/ they could have covered up dozens of failed space launches and we would never know about it
 
2012-10-29 02:08:01 PM
Of course they did. Because the Reds are untrustworthy, scheming, liars.

Unlike our brave American heroes who are clad in righteousness and honor.
 
2012-10-29 02:08:59 PM
I don't think you should have to explain a costume, and there's no way I wouldn't have to explain "phantom Soviet cosmonaut" to the average person.
 
2012-10-29 02:09:07 PM
Holy cow. I just wrote a short story with China doing that... two weeks ago. Sweet!
 
2012-10-29 02:09:18 PM
Y'know, I seen me a mermaid once. I even seen me a shark eat an octopus. But I ain't never seen no phantom Russian cosmonaut.
 
2012-10-29 02:09:34 PM
venturebrosblog.com
 
2012-10-29 02:09:36 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: Of course they did. Because the Reds are untrustworthy, scheming, liars.

Unlike our brave American heroes Space Marines who are clad in righteousness and honor.


FTFY just for fun :p .

/The Emperor protects
 
2012-10-29 02:09:42 PM
Hard to cover up a huge rocket launch. But still, much much easier than in the U.S., what with all the citizens walking around the launch sites in Florida and all those TV cameras and newspapers and everything.
 
2012-10-29 02:10:00 PM
4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-10-29 02:10:05 PM

HST's Dead Carcass: This is an old conspiracy theory, but it does have some merit to it.


Yeah, this. This is an example of the rare conspiracy theory that I would NOT be surprised if it were true.
 
2012-10-29 02:10:48 PM
I think this belongs here. Sort of:

24flinching.com
 
2012-10-29 02:11:08 PM
i856.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-29 02:11:25 PM
Cover it up? The Soviets wouldn't cover that up. They threw people into space all the time. There are recordings of the damn audio of one of them burning up in orbit, and Yuri Gagarin was pretty open about it in the press.

Want to hear a Russian cosmonaut die because no one wanted to tell the boss the space ship was a heap of crap?

NPR has the goods.
 
2012-10-29 02:14:20 PM
blogs.coventrytelegraph.net
cache.gawkerassets.com
 
2012-10-29 02:15:13 PM

znapel: Y'know, I seen me a mermaid once. I even seen me a shark eat an octopus. But I ain't never seen no phantom Russian cosmonaut.


Tragic death could have been avoided if only he had verified his range to target. One ping only, please.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-10-29 02:15:44 PM

galahad05: Hard to cover up a huge rocket launch. But still, much much easier than in the U.S., what with all the citizens walking around the launch sites in Florida and all those TV cameras and newspapers and everything.


Not really. They covered up the N-1 explosion and their entire manned lunar program.
 
2012-10-29 02:16:52 PM

GameSprocket: [venturebrosblog.com image 600x441]


Came for this

/AAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
//AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!1!!!!!
 
2012-10-29 02:17:11 PM
animatedviews.com
 
2012-10-29 02:18:46 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: Of course they did. Because the Reds are untrustworthy, scheming, liars.

Unlike our brave American heroes who are clad in righteousness and honor.



Actually, yeah. Sorry if it sounds too "America rah rah!" for you, but that's only a slightly-exaggerated account of how the space race went down. You should Google the audio recording of Yuri Gagarin, a genuine hero, as he burned to death on re-entry, cursing the incompetent, corrupt @ssholes who made him go up in a piece of shiat spacecraft.
 
2012-10-29 02:21:25 PM

shower_in_my_socks: AverageAmericanGuy: Of course they did. Because the Reds are untrustworthy, scheming, liars.

Unlike our brave American heroes who are clad in righteousness and honor.


Actually, yeah. Sorry if it sounds too "America rah rah!" for you, but that's only a slightly-exaggerated account of how the space race went down. You should Google the audio recording of Yuri Gagarin, a genuine hero, as he burned to death on re-entry, cursing the incompetent, corrupt @ssholes who made him go up in a piece of shiat spacecraft.


Gagarin wasn't the one that burned up. He was the backup pilot for that launch.

Link to the audio is above a couple of posts.
 
2012-10-29 02:21:28 PM

shower_in_my_socks: AverageAmericanGuy: Of course they did. Because the Reds are untrustworthy, scheming, liars.

Unlike our brave American heroes who are clad in righteousness and honor.


Actually, yeah. Sorry if it sounds too "America rah rah!" for you, but that's only a slightly-exaggerated account of how the space race went down. You should Google the audio recording of Yuri Gagarin, a genuine hero, as he burned to death on re-entry, cursing the incompetent, corrupt @ssholes who made him go up in a piece of shiat spacecraft.


Gagarin died in a plane crash.
 
2012-10-29 02:21:50 PM

shower_in_my_socks: . You should Google the audio recording of Yuri Gagarin, a genuine hero, as he burned to death on re-entry, cursing the incompetent, corrupt @ssholes who made him go up in a piece of shiat spacecraft.


Wrong guy. See Rent Party's link.
 
2012-10-29 02:22:49 PM

shower_in_my_socks: AverageAmericanGuy: Of course they did. Because the Reds are untrustworthy, scheming, liars.

Unlike our brave American heroes who are clad in righteousness and honor.


Actually, yeah. Sorry if it sounds too "America rah rah!" for you, but that's only a slightly-exaggerated account of how the space race went down. You should Google the audio recording of Yuri Gagarin, a genuine hero, as he burned to death on re-entry, cursing the incompetent, corrupt @ssholes who made him go up in a piece of shiat spacecraft.



CORRECTION: It was Komarov who burned alive while cursing the Russian space organization.
 
2012-10-29 02:22:54 PM
Has anyone else pointed out to shower_in_my_socks the...

Nevermind.
 
2012-10-29 02:22:58 PM
Came for Venture Bros., leaving satisfied.
 
2012-10-29 02:23:28 PM

Rent Party: Gagarin wasn't the one that burned up. He was the backup pilot for that launch.


AverageAmericanGuy: Gagarin died in a plane crash.


Old_Chief_Scott: Wrong guy. See Rent Party's link.



Already corrected myself.
 
2012-10-29 02:24:36 PM
Go Team Venture!
 
2012-10-29 02:25:09 PM

Diogenes: After having seen that documentary footage in Apollo 18, there's no doubt in my mind.


Now that was a great premise ruined by a mediocre execution (but who am I to judge, I really liked Capricorn One).
 
2012-10-29 02:25:46 PM
30.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-10-29 02:26:28 PM
SeesWhatYouDidThere:

debug:


Best Scooby Doo ever.
 
2012-10-29 02:26:52 PM
Robert A. Heinlein wrote a story called "Pravda means 'Truth'" that detailed when he and his wife went to Russia. Heinlein's wife actually studied Russian for two years to the point where she could think in Russian. It helped with the tightly controlled tourist industry at the time. Sometimes, they could get away from their "guide" - when they did, they found that people were much more open.

Heinlein commented how he and Ginny met some Army cadets in a park. They were all very excited because the Soviet Union had launched a man into space! Heinlein felt saddened because the Americans were once again beat. The next day the story changed and it was claimed that there was no cosmonaut on that particular rocket, but a test dummy. Heinlein mentioned that her recalled hearing that there may have been some issues with that mission's retro-rockets and that the cosmonaut died in space.

The Russians have a history of "erasing" cosmonauts from pictures, just like they've done with other people. It surely didn't happen randomly.
 
2012-10-29 02:27:16 PM
While I wouldn't be shocked if it were true, almost every other secret about the Soviets has been leaked by now, so why wouldn't this be leaked?

Also, a lot of the "lost cosmonauts" rumors were debunked... Not sure if all were, but a good number were
 
2012-10-29 02:27:21 PM
popcultureninja.com
www.futuredude.com
 
2012-10-29 02:30:05 PM
i47.tinypic.com
 
2012-10-29 02:30:24 PM

machoprogrammer: While I wouldn't be shocked if it were true, almost every other secret about the Soviets has been leaked by now, so why wouldn't this be leaked?


Yeah, I'd think that if it actually happened, there would be more hard evidence than we currently have. Somebody who worked the pad or in launch control would have come out and said "Yes, we launched so and so, and he never came back alive, so they hushed it all up." Unless they were super-secretive about putting a man in the capsule there's just too many people who would have known there was one guy shot into space who was thereafter unaccounted for.
 
2012-10-29 02:32:37 PM
Is this one of the 30 or so Hurricane Sandy threads? Headline sucks. I didn't get the joke on this one.
 
2012-10-29 02:33:06 PM
img513.imageshack.us

"Maybe we should finally tell them the big secret, that all the chimps we sent into space came back super intelligent."

"No, I don't think we'll be telling them that."
 
2012-10-29 02:34:21 PM
americancinemathequecalendar.com
 
2012-10-29 02:38:01 PM
img222.imageshack.usimageshack.us
 
2012-10-29 02:41:23 PM
I have to think that if the Soviets had been more open about these things, most of these theories about their dead cosmonauts would look about as dumb as the moon landing conspiracy theories.

Seems to me NASA has taken more of a duct tape approach to space travel than the Soviets ever did, and has had the accidents to prove it.
 
2012-10-29 02:43:42 PM
Laika, Belka, and Strelka are all barking their asses off right now.
 
2012-10-29 02:44:53 PM
fc01.deviantart.net

//hot mcninja action
 
2012-10-29 02:45:30 PM
Before Sputnik? Makes no sense. No reason to send people when sending a satellite is SOOO much easier. You send Sputnik as soon as you are capable, it's a race. Manned flight requires much more of everything and costs a ton more.
 
2012-10-29 02:50:43 PM
images.trollandtoad.com
 
2012-10-29 02:54:57 PM
pixhost.me
 
2012-10-29 02:57:12 PM
Hey, who turned off the lights?!
 
2012-10-29 03:04:17 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: Gagarin died in a plane crash.


That's what they want you to think.
 
2012-10-29 03:06:13 PM
The answer is YES. The Soviets lied about everything, even when they succeeded.
 
2012-10-29 03:10:36 PM
They killed that dog. I don't doubt they killed some people too.
 
2012-10-29 03:11:27 PM

mcmnky: AverageAmericanGuy: Gagarin died in a plane crash.

That's what they want you to think.


2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-10-29 03:11:34 PM

galahad05: Hard to cover up a huge rocket launch. But still, much much easier than in the U.S., what with all the citizens walking around the launch sites in Florida and all those TV cameras and newspapers and everything.


The whole US manned space program was done pretty publicly. The Soviet program was very much shrouded in secrecy; it wasn't until the late 90's that Soviet era documents, video footage, etc started becoming available.
 
2012-10-29 03:22:57 PM
I remember seeing the Russian's film of their first so-called space-walk: a guy in a suit holding a rope, kicking and rolling around to simulate being buffettet about by "space wind". You could even see the table he was lying on! Way back in the early sixties there were rumors of cosmonauts dieing in space; I think that Gagarin's fabled flight may have been a fake. We should remember, too, that the German scientists captured by Russian post-WWII did not do their best for their space program as did the Germans we managed to snag.
 
2012-10-29 03:50:35 PM
If anyone is interested in this, the website:

http://www.lostcosmonauts.com/default.htm

Is pretty awesome, especially when you realize it was mainly a group of kids who did it.
 
2012-10-29 03:56:43 PM
This is one of those topics that tests the validity of the conspiricist's line. The average person knows that the former Soviet Union lied early and often about many, many different things over its history. Some were mundane, some were important. Are the radio transcripts from Italy enough to "prove" this actually happened? Some would say no, but I'd say that the constellation of known facts surrounding this and other similar incidents mean that it is highly plausible. The current Russian regime is no more transparent than the last one, so there will be no new information for a while.
 
2012-10-29 03:57:50 PM

shower_in_my_socks: AverageAmericanGuy: Of course they did. Because the Reds are untrustworthy, scheming, liars.

Unlike our brave American heroes who are clad in righteousness and honor.


Actually, yeah. Sorry if it sounds too "America rah rah!" for you, but that's only a slightly-exaggerated account of how the space race went down. You should Google the audio recording of Yuri Gagarin, a genuine hero, as he burned to death on re-entry, cursing the incompetent, corrupt @ssholes who made him go up in a piece of shiat spacecraft.


Gus Grissom would like a word...
 
2012-10-29 04:16:41 PM

mcmnky: AverageAmericanGuy: Gagarin died in a plane crash.

That's what they want you to think.


Gagarin was a world hero of their own making. I doubt they would have organized such a simple training accident to get rid of him when they could have "retired" the guy to a lovely ranch surrounded by barbed wire.

When the soviets wanted to alter the pages of history they did like most Farkers and made with the photoshopping.

dl.dropbox.com
dl.dropbox.com

/I wonder how many of these guys died in the pursuit of spaceflight VS how many disappeared due to complaining too loudly.
 
2012-10-29 04:44:03 PM
Doctor Who was first in mind when I saw those costumes.
www.wikinoticia.com
 
2012-10-29 04:52:48 PM
As I recall, all the recordings on phantom cosmonauts came from a couple of Italian brothers who had built a surprisingly crude looking radio which nevertheless was claimed to pick up hours of transmissions which nobody else, up to and including Jodrell Bank, could hear. Golly.
 
2012-10-29 05:02:16 PM
If a cosmonaut had died in space before Yuri Gagarin, they wouldn't have announced Gagarin's flight before he landed. But they did. Same argument for flights after Gagarin. They always announced their manned flights before they ended.

Oh, and that lost cosmonauts website? Complete and utter bullshiat. Basically these Italians were attention whores and most of their claims don't even make sense considering the trajectory of the spacecrafts, the technology available to the Italians and last but not least the timing (e.g. supposed audio transmissions when the capsule would have been in its communication blackout phase during reentry).
 
2012-10-29 05:10:22 PM

orbister: As I recall, all the recordings on phantom cosmonauts came from a couple of Italian brothers who had built a surprisingly crude looking radio which nevertheless was claimed to pick up hours of transmissions which nobody else, up to and including Jodrell Bank, could hear. Golly.


You didn't need Jodrell Bank to pick up Soviet space communications. It was mostly HF, with some VHF. You can tell by looking at the spacecraft. This is the Voskhod:

upload.wikimedia.org

The long antennas are HF antennas, and the ones that "curl back" on themselves are VHF ones.

Those frequencies are the kind any ham would be able to monitor. You just had to know what frequency to monitor, and be in the right place.
 
2012-10-29 06:23:49 PM
I should point out that while it was relatively easy to listen in on the Soviet space program (even some school kids in England did it with very rudimentary equipment), I don't think there were any "lost cosmonauts".
 
2012-10-29 06:46:34 PM

Klopfer: If a cosmonaut had died in space before Yuri Gagarin, they wouldn't have announced Gagarin's flight before he landed. But they did. Same argument for flights after Gagarin. They always announced their manned flights before they ended.

Oh, and that lost cosmonauts website? Complete and utter bullshiat. Basically these Italians were attention whores and most of their claims don't even make sense considering the trajectory of the spacecrafts, the technology available to the Italians and last but not least the timing (e.g. supposed audio transmissions when the capsule would have been in its communication blackout phase during reentry).


machoprogrammer: While I wouldn't be shocked if it were true, almost every other secret about the Soviets has been leaked by now, so why wouldn't this be leaked?

Also, a lot of the "lost cosmonauts" rumors were debunked... Not sure if all were, but a good number were


We still have classified secrets from that era and before that are rather difficult to access, and now most of the people who had first-hand experience with all of our crazy-ass Cold War Ear stuff are dropping like flies; hell lost weapons caches, Civil Defense hoardes and the like get uncovered all the time, to the resounding tune of "well how the hell did we lose that?"

Robert Heinlein's autobiography stated clearly that he (as one of the very first Westerners) allowed behind the Iron Curtain, was present for May Day 1950, and everyone was going crazy in the streets and celebrating above and beyond what he would have expected for a typical commie celebration; when he asked his translator what happened. he was told "We have just put our first man in space!"... days later, *no one* was talking about it, and when he got back 'States side, no one knew anything he was taking about. So many "mysteries" from that era, and all they really amounted to was a whole shiatload of CYA maneuvers.to make sure the mistakes were never known.

FTA: "Early Soviet spaceflight rumors started trickling over to the West in early 1958, well before NASA was established. The word from Moscow cryptically mentioned a manned flight suborbital flight reaching a peak altitude of 186 miles. Though it turned out not to be a real flight but a fictional radio program, Westerners were taken in by the story."

How about: the truth leaked out, and the details, and pretty much anyone who knew the details, got burned to ashes in a Gulag somewhere. Now those who did the burning are long dead, and the rest is whispers that turned to rumor, rumor to legend, legend to fable. But it happened, and it happened enough that there is at least something of a trail.

shiat, if Oakridge, TN, hadn't been declassified, do you think we'd ever know about it? Not from what very little physical evidence is left behind, and since most of the workers are now long dead of cancer, who remembers the details? and that was with an "open" government. The Soviets had entire cities that were off the maps, and anyone even suspected of spying just... disappeared, guilty or not. Under those conditions, it isn't hard to understand how a ton of covering-up could be successful.

Hell, I have missile silos in my "back yard" at a place called Yellow Water that are still classified, and they were decommissioned back in the late '80s. Everyone knows they're there. but you still can't get near them, and they're empty. What kind of missiles? Where were they aimed? No one will ever know the details. It's amazing we even know anything about all of the nuclear fuel processing disasters that happened in Russia, much less the ones here in Colorado, or New York (Zoar Valley... lots o' radioactive fish & birds back in the 60s and 70s.)
 
2012-10-29 07:04:11 PM
Well everyone knows the US bought a fully developed space program from Yugoslavia

link
 
2012-10-29 07:06:17 PM
i939.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-29 07:35:24 PM
wiki.teamfortress.com

Poor li'l guy... Here's to you, unknown Monkeynaut!
 
2012-10-29 07:50:17 PM
Good speech on this subject - go to youtube and lookup "critical thinking" and "lost astronauts".

The speaker's rather convincing view is that while the US public may not have known everything, the US govt studied it full time and knew a good deal (if not everything) about the Soviet program through defectors, spies, spy flights, stolen documents, detecting launches, etc. They knew most if not all of the persons being considered as cosmonauts. Knew who was washed out and noted the photos where they wiped out the image of the disgraced pilots. They even knew the number of type of ships that were being launched, the payload weight and could even accurately guess or calculate the number of seats that would be on a ship. The speaker even claims we had a pretty decent knowledge even on their launch schedule based on how long it took them to get their rockets ready in the past.

Based on all of the above, he said the chances of the Soviets doing secret launches of anything are pretty low. If I recall correctly (heard this show a long time ago), there is a strong argument that the supposed cry for help by the woman pilot was simply a mistranslation of russian. Other options - outright fraud or she was a test pilot.
 
2012-10-29 08:13:22 PM
Lost cosmonauts? Maybe they landed in Kecksburg.
 
2012-10-29 08:15:30 PM

thespindrifter: Robert Heinlein's autobiography stated clearly that he (as one of the very first Westerners) allowed behind the Iron Curtain, was present for May Day 1950, and everyone was going crazy in the streets and celebrating above and beyond what he would have expected for a typical commie celebration; when he asked his translator what happened. he was told "We have just put our first man in space!"... days later, *no one* was talking about it, and when he got back 'States side, no one knew anything he was taking about.


The thing you have to remember about the Soviet Union at the time is that in the absence of independent news media, rumors would often fly about the most fanciful things.

There *WAS* an unmanned test in on May 15th, 1960, the actual date Heinlein wrote about hearing that. Nothing really sinister, just rumor based upon fact spread by the chronically under-informed. Or it could have been a language-based misunderstanding. He was in Vilnius, Lithuania, and even if his wife spoke fluent Russian, the Red Army cadets would have likely had Russian as a second language, after Lithuanian.
 
2012-10-29 08:41:02 PM

MrEricSir: I have to think that if the Soviets had been more open about these things, most of these theories about their dead cosmonauts would look about as dumb as the moon landing conspiracy theories.

Seems to me NASA has taken more of a duct tape approach to space travel than the Soviets ever did, and has had the accidents to prove it.


Sorry, you don't know shiat about any of this. NASA was spectacularly careful with it's people. The problem is when a system works for a long time without any problems, the managers get lazy. They stop asking the engineers if they can make a modification, Eventually, all those mods stack up to the point where you get a cascade effect, and people die. Reseach Apollo 1

On the secrecy part, the Feds didn't have any trouble or any doubt that they should hide Soviet failures, or spend all their time refuting Communist propaganda. Why? Because the last thing the CIA and NSA wanted was for the Russians to know just how good our ELINT and HUMINT were. We listened to ALL of their radio traffic, huge chunks of their telephone traffic, and they were doing the same things to us.

Example: The USS Parche hooked a nuclear tape recorder to an underwater telephone cable that ran across the Sea of Okhotsk. It used induction to read every conversation from the cable and record it. Look it up. Operation Ivy Bells.

Someone pointed out that R. A. Heinlein went to Russia, and wrote about it in the article "Pravda Means Truth." One thing both Heinlein and his wife noted, but didn't comment on at the time was the lack of traffic and people in what was supposed to be one of the largest cities in the country.

He asked a Navy Rear Admiral friend of his, (Heinlein was an Annapolis man.) when he got back to estimate Moscow's true population. The Russians were stating 2,000,000+. The Admiral looked at road, rail networks, (Logistics.) and added in the weather, and came up with 750,000. (His wife noted at the time about how few couples with children there were.) Heinlein wondered why we weren't challenging them, but then suggested, "To what purpose?"

Only Leftists/Socialists believe whatever they are told without question. After all, "Obama is the smartest man in the room..."

 
2012-10-29 09:27:18 PM

shower_in_my_socks: AverageAmericanGuy: Of course they did. Because the Reds are untrustworthy, scheming, liars.

Unlike our brave American heroes who are clad in righteousness and honor.


Actually, yeah. Sorry if it sounds too "America rah rah!" for you, but that's only a slightly-exaggerated account of how the space race went down. You should Google the audio recording of Yuri Gagarin, a genuine hero, as he burned to death on re-entry, cursing the incompetent, corrupt @ssholes who made him go up in a piece of shiat spacecraft.


The only reason America didn't cover up its failures is because of freedom of the press. And no iron curtain around America.
 
2012-10-29 09:34:19 PM

Voiceofreason01: galahad05: Hard to cover up a huge rocket launch. But still, much much easier than in the U.S., what with all the citizens walking around the launch sites in Florida and all those TV cameras and newspapers and everything.

The whole US manned space program was done pretty publicly. The Soviet program was very much shrouded in secrecy; it wasn't until the late 90's that Soviet era documents, video footage, etc started becoming available.


My father was a real rocket scientist. One of the things which really bothered him was that the cosmonauts had so little room in their capsules that they launched in just a regular uniform; they didn't have room for a pressure suit.
 
2012-10-29 09:34:49 PM

kg2095: shower_in_my_socks: AverageAmericanGuy: Of course they did. Because the Reds are untrustworthy, scheming, liars.

Unlike our brave American heroes who are clad in righteousness and honor.


Actually, yeah. Sorry if it sounds too "America rah rah!" for you, but that's only a slightly-exaggerated account of how the space race went down. You should Google the audio recording of Yuri Gagarin, a genuine hero, as he burned to death on re-entry, cursing the incompetent, corrupt @ssholes who made him go up in a piece of shiat spacecraft.

The only reason America didn't cover up its failures is because of freedom of the press. And no iron curtain around America.


Back then the US was surrounded by a polyester curtain.
 
2012-10-29 10:57:03 PM

akula: machoprogrammer: While I wouldn't be shocked if it were true, almost every other secret about the Soviets has been leaked by now, so why wouldn't this be leaked?

Yeah, I'd think that if it actually happened, there would be more hard evidence than we currently have. Somebody who worked the pad or in launch control would have come out and said "Yes, we launched so and so, and he never came back alive, so they hushed it all up." Unless they were super-secretive about putting a man in the capsule there's just too many people who would have known there was one guy shot into space who was thereafter unaccounted for.




I'm going to go out on a limb here and take the side of the Soviet space program engineers/managers. Would they have covered up unmanned flights that ended in disaster? Sure. But as for manned flights, everyone here seems to be forgetting about Laika and the other furry flight folunteers. I do not believe for a second that the Soviets tossed a couple of human cosmonauts into a rusty cardboard box and lit the solid boosters and said 'Well let's hope this works.'. They did put effort into making human spaceflight survivable. That's not to say that a Apollo-1-type of accidental disaster didn't occur and was not covered up, but I highly doubt if multiple mis-management/rush jobs or budgetary problems caused numerous Challenger-type deaths.
 
2012-10-30 02:41:39 AM
Approves

www.ivandelanuez.org 

/hot like uncontrolled re-entry
 
2012-10-30 03:08:35 AM

daxxenos: MrEricSir: I have to think that if the Soviets had been more open about these things, most of these theories about their dead cosmonauts would look about as dumb as the moon landing conspiracy theories.

Seems to me NASA has taken more of a duct tape approach to space travel than the Soviets ever did, and has had the accidents to prove it.

Sorry, you don't know shiat about any of this. NASA was spectacularly careful with it's people. The problem is when a system works for a long time without any problems, the managers get lazy. They stop asking the engineers if they can make a modification, Eventually, all those mods stack up to the point where you get a cascade effect, and people die. Reseach Apollo 1On the secrecy part, the Feds didn't have any trouble or any doubt that they should hide Soviet failures, or spend all their time refuting Communist propaganda. Why? Because the last thing the CIA and NSA wanted was for the Russians to know just how good our ELINT and HUMINT were. We listened to ALL of their radio traffic, huge chunks of their telephone traffic, and they were doing the same things to us. Example: The USS Parche hooked a nuclear tape recorder to an underwater telephone cable that ran across the Sea of Okhotsk. It used induction to read every conversation from the cable and record it. Look it up. Operation Ivy Bells.
Someone pointed out that R. A. Heinlein went to Russia, and wrote about it in the article "Pravda Means Truth." One thing both Heinlein and his wife noted, but didn't comment on at the time was the lack of traffic and people in what was supposed to be one of the largest cities in the country.He asked a Navy Rear Admiral friend of his, (Heinlein was an Annapolis man.) when he got back to estimate Moscow's true population. The Russians were stating 2,000,000+. The Admiral looked at road, rail networks, (Logistics.) and added in the weather, and came up with 750,000. (His wife noted at the time about how few couples with children there were.) Heinlein wondered why we weren't challenging them, but then suggested, "To what purpose?" Only Leftists/Socialists believe whatever they are told without question. After all, "Obama is the smartest man in the room..."


Don't you have a late-night AM radio show to be calling?
 
2012-10-30 04:51:01 AM

dittybopper: thespindrifter: Robert Heinlein's autobiography stated clearly that he (as one of the very first Westerners) allowed behind the Iron Curtain, was present for May Day 1950, and everyone was going crazy in the streets and celebrating above and beyond what he would have expected for a typical commie celebration; when he asked his translator what happened. he was told "We have just put our first man in space!"... days later, *no one* was talking about it, and when he got back 'States side, no one knew anything he was taking about.

The thing you have to remember about the Soviet Union at the time is that in the absence of independent news media, rumors would often fly about the most fanciful things.

There *WAS* an unmanned test in on May 15th, 1960, the actual date Heinlein wrote about hearing that. Nothing really sinister, just rumor based upon fact spread by the chronically under-informed. Or it could have been a language-based misunderstanding. He was in Vilnius, Lithuania, and even if his wife spoke fluent Russian, the Red Army cadets would have likely had Russian as a second language, after Lithuanian.


Autobiography clearly says "1950", at least the edition I have... someone has a typo, not sure if it's mine or theirs. Since I'm still convinced that Roswell was a crashed Soviet test plane/exovehicle, I'm sticking with 1950.
 
2012-10-30 06:04:15 AM

dittybopper: There *WAS* an unmanned test in on May 15th, 1960, the actual date Heinlein wrote about hearing that. Nothing really sinister, just rumor based upon fact spread by the chronically under-informed. Or it could have been a language-based misunderstanding. He was in Vilnius, Lithuania, and even if his wife spoke fluent Russian, the Red Army cadets would have likely had Russian as a second language, after Lithuanian.


Russian was thought in all Soviet schools from 1st grade. Pretty much everyone in CCCP spoke fluent Russian
 
2012-10-30 06:17:59 AM

thespindrifter: dittybopper: thespindrifter: Robert Heinlein's autobiography stated clearly that he (as one of the very first Westerners) allowed behind the Iron Curtain, was present for May Day 1950, and everyone was going crazy in the streets and celebrating above and beyond what he would have expected for a typical commie celebration; when he asked his translator what happened. he was told "We have just put our first man in space!"... days later, *no one* was talking about it, and when he got back 'States side, no one knew anything he was taking about.

The thing you have to remember about the Soviet Union at the time is that in the absence of independent news media, rumors would often fly about the most fanciful things.

There *WAS* an unmanned test in on May 15th, 1960, the actual date Heinlein wrote about hearing that. Nothing really sinister, just rumor based upon fact spread by the chronically under-informed. Or it could have been a language-based misunderstanding. He was in Vilnius, Lithuania, and even if his wife spoke fluent Russian, the Red Army cadets would have likely had Russian as a second language, after Lithuanian.

Autobiography clearly says "1950", at least the edition I have... someone has a typo, not sure if it's mine or theirs. Since I'm still convinced that Roswell was a crashed Soviet test plane/exovehicle, I'm sticking with 1950.


It's a typo. I've read that Heinlein piece too, and it said 1960. Also, if the Soviets had a booster capable of launching a man into space in 1950, why wait until 1957 for Sputnik, and the next year for Muttnik?
 
2012-10-30 07:26:50 AM

LewDux: dittybopper: There *WAS* an unmanned test in on May 15th, 1960, the actual date Heinlein wrote about hearing that. Nothing really sinister, just rumor based upon fact spread by the chronically under-informed. Or it could have been a language-based misunderstanding. He was in Vilnius, Lithuania, and even if his wife spoke fluent Russian, the Red Army cadets would have likely had Russian as a second language, after Lithuanian.

Russian was thought in all Soviet schools from 1st grade. Pretty much everyone in CCCP spoke fluent Russian


But the Soviet Union didn't encompass Lithuania until 1940. Also, during much of the 5 years after that, it was occupied by Nazi Germany.

But even given that the Union of Socialist Soviet Republics did force Russian upon everybody, that doesn't make *EVERYBODY* fluent in it. Some people have an affinity for languages, and others don't.

Also, whether whoever they talked to were fluent in Russian or not, it doesn't take away from my main point of it probably being due to a rumor (or perhaps a misunderstanding on the part of Gospazha Heinlein - He *SAYS* she was fluent, but the only evidence we have for that is his word) in a society with limited access to information.
 
2012-10-30 08:24:23 AM

dittybopper: LewDux: dittybopper: There *WAS* an unmanned test in on May 15th, 1960, the actual date Heinlein wrote about hearing that. Nothing really sinister, just rumor based upon fact spread by the chronically under-informed. Or it could have been a language-based misunderstanding. He was in Vilnius, Lithuania, and even if his wife spoke fluent Russian, the Red Army cadets would have likely had Russian as a second language, after Lithuanian.

Russian was thought in all Soviet schools from 1st grade. Pretty much everyone in CCCP spoke fluent Russian

But the Soviet Union didn't encompass Lithuania until 1940. Also, during much of the 5 years after that, it was occupied by Nazi Germany.

But even given that the Union of Socialist Soviet Republics did force Russian upon everybody, that doesn't make *EVERYBODY* fluent in it. Some people have an affinity for languages, and others don't.

Also, whether whoever they talked to were fluent in Russian or not, it doesn't take away from my main point of it probably being due to a rumor (or perhaps a misunderstanding on the part of Gospazha Heinlein - He *SAYS* she was fluent, but the only evidence we have for that is his word) in a society with limited access to information.


Gospodin and Gospozha Heinlein also had government supplied guide/translator/KGB agent capable of fluent Russian and English

And surely 15 years in practically bi-lingual society should be enough for at least one person from the "group of six or eight Red Army cadets" to learn Russian well enough to to understand what "manned rocket" means?

And that's assuming cadets were locals and Lithuanians
 
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