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(AZCentral)   Microsoft finds little demand for Windows 8 ... probably because consumers still haven't forgiven them for Vista   (azcentral.com) divider line 73
    More: Followup, Microsoft, Windows, Vista, Apple products, GfK, Kindle Fire, desktop computers, consumers  
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3259 clicks; posted to Business » on 29 Oct 2012 at 10:39 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-10-29 10:06:38 AM  
7 votes:
That, and 7 is in no way outdated yet.

If I could use XP for 8 years, no problem, I don't see any reason why I shouldn't get the same sort of life out of 7. Especially since big OS changes mean issues with a lot of the other programs I've purchased. Even if 8 didn't look totally idiotic (and it does), I would see zero reason to change. It ain't broke, after all...
2012-10-29 11:34:07 AM  
4 votes:
The general consensus is that Windows 8 is great for mobile platforms with touchscreens, awful for desktop environments.

Microsoft shills can give it a rest... we know there are keyboard shortcuts and all that, and that you don't miss the start button. The reality is that 30 years of UI research has refined windowed UIs where Windows 7 is pretty much optimal. Nobody should be required to remember obscure keyboard shortcuts because Microsoft thought it would be a good idea to remove buttons and visual cues users have grown accustomed to in order to homogenize their desktop and mobile operating systems.

The sad reality is that Windows RT is NOT Windows 8, though they share the Metro compatibility. Windows RT looks fantastic for a touchscreen UI.... kudos to Microsoft for that. Windows 8 throws out too much and makes painful assumptions about productivity on the desktop. Metro could have been integrated better as a windowed interface, but it didn't suit marketing goals.... and what does that say about Windows 8? To me, placing marketing above 30 years of research tells me I should avoid it like the plague.

I used to like reading about "Windows secrets" - books and articles written to give you little tidbits of information that would make Windows even more powerful, offering up new features that were just cool, even if they didn't impact my usual productivity. With Windows 8, I feel like "Windows 8 Secrets" would be the manual for doing all the "normal" things I need to do to be productive... need to close an app? Look at secret tip #45. Wondering how to cut and paste between applications? Secret tip #198 using [Metro key]+[ALT]+C, curly swipe, double tap, cross-swipe, [Windows]+[Shift]+V to paste.

WTF?

It isn't evolutionary. It's design driven by marketing people who have no clue on what real people do on computers on a daily basis.
2012-10-29 10:47:27 AM  
4 votes:

Krieghund: I have little demand for Windows 8, because I'm still happy with Windows 7.


They'll be releasing some updates soon in order to fix that problem
2012-10-29 10:35:38 AM  
4 votes:
I thought everybody knew to use every other new OS from Microsoft...2000, XP, 7...I'll be waiting for whatever comes AFTER 8.
2012-10-29 11:40:57 AM  
3 votes:

pkellmey: Windows 8 is ridiculously fast.


There is a caveat to this. Windows 8 is ridiculously fast IF you allow Microsoft to store all your information in their "cloud" and you keep your computer connect to the net at all times. Violate either of those, and it behaves just like every other version of windows and will get bogged down once you've installed a bunch of stuff on it (aka, after using it for a year)
2012-10-29 11:16:07 AM  
3 votes:

Generation_D: Why would anyone want an OS that looks like AOL Junior 1996?


I know they've always tried to make using a pc simpler for the average person (My Documents) but they went a little too far this time. I just see this.

img688.imageshack.us
2012-10-29 11:45:05 AM  
2 votes:

Lost Thought 00: pkellmey: Windows 8 is ridiculously fast.

There is a caveat to this. Windows 8 is ridiculously fast IF you allow Microsoft to store all your information in their "cloud" and you keep your computer connect to the net at all times. Violate either of those, and it behaves just like every other version of windows and will get bogged down once you've installed a bunch of stuff on it (aka, after using it for a year)


Yes.

In the cloud.

Quite a few companies have policies forbidding it, or have requirements that they need to meet for various kinds of sensitive data.

Good luck explaining to your VP of finance why your credit card database is now sitting at microsoft's server cluster in Quincy, Washington
2012-10-29 11:43:36 AM  
2 votes:

whistleridge: That, and 7 is in no way outdated yet.

If I could use XP for 8 years, no problem, I don't see any reason why I shouldn't get the same sort of life out of 7. Especially since big OS changes mean issues with a lot of the other programs I've purchased. Even if 8 didn't look totally idiotic (and it does), I would see zero reason to change. It ain't broke, after all...


I've said this here on Fark before, but I'll lay it down one more time. I really think MS took a look at 7 and said "Oh shiat. We have another XP on our hands. We made this too good and 10 years from now people will still be using it. Quick, release garbage! Get 7 off the shelves pronto so we can guarantee a fresh revenue stream when we put out Windows 9 in two years!"
2012-10-29 11:38:55 AM  
2 votes:

Babwa Wawa: Generation_D: Why would anyone want an OS that looks like AOL Junior 1996?

NowhereMon: I tried it out, if you have a touch screen PC it is pretty cool. It's pretty useless if you don't.

whistleridge: 7 is in no way outdated yet.

Take aside the interface for a minute. Windows 8 is wicked fast - been running it since RTM, and I'm still getting sub-10 second boot times - it takes longer to go through BIOS than it does to boot the OS and get to a usable screen. Also enjoying the enhanced multi-monitor support, and full-blown Hyper-V. It's quite nice.

I personally prefer the new start menu. I hated it at first, but after I customized it, I have everything that I use on a daily basis in one pane, no scrolling around. And anything I use hourly is on the task bar anyway. The biggest thing I don't like is how some metro-enabled apps would sometimes launch in metro mode when you want them in desktop mode. It seemed to happen willy-nilly at first, but after some poking around and customizing, it doesn't happen anymore.

Just my experience. But if you think the only new thing about Windows is MEtro, you're sorely mistaken.


And you demonstrate why Windows 8 is a loser. It may be fast, but if I have to customize the start menu, and figure out how to set the farking thing to desktop mode right out of the box then I don't want it. Win XP & 7 were pretty standard and most desktop users are comfortable with them right out of the box. If I have to either create a custom setup or a bunch of instructions for my users to set the operating system up to what they are used to, well then it is a loser and not worth my time.

Besides I'd rather be pushing Linux desktops instead of MS, if the changeover is too costly/large it may finally push corporate over to my point of view.
2012-10-29 11:38:08 AM  
2 votes:
us.acidcow.com
2012-10-29 11:21:44 AM  
2 votes:

bhcompy: gingerjet: enry: My employer is advising against Win 8, partially because of retraining that's necessary to use it. Now I've been in IT for about 20 years and have used every consumer version of Windows since 1.0. How much training is really necessary?

A lot. It fundamentally changes how you interact with applications and the OS. Your administrative assistants are going to freak out more about this than the Wordperfect to Microsoft Word switch you forced on them two decades ago.

/shudder at those memories

WHAR START MENU WHARRRR

/really. it's farking awful. I love WP7. I don't want it on my PC.


It is a shame, because Vista/Win7 had hit the zenith of the start menu. It was smart in autopinning things (and you could say go to the pinned Word icon and then launch a specific recent document). If it wasn't autopinned, start typing its name and the search function found it quickly. It was the best of the Start Menu and Apple's quick search combined into one menu.

Now we just have change for the sake of change. I bet the tiles thing is awesome on the tablet or the phone where it is a touch screen. However I'm using a computer with a full sized farking keyboard. Make sure of the fact I have a keyboard you worthless farks who design UI.
2012-10-29 11:14:10 AM  
2 votes:
Looks like Windows 3.1 with slightly better graphics. I don't want that! I want the start button and a simple list of my stuff.
2012-10-29 11:04:19 AM  
2 votes:
My employer is advising against Win 8, partially because of retraining that's necessary to use it. Now I've been in IT for about 20 years and have used every consumer version of Windows since 1.0. How much training is really necessary?
2012-10-29 10:53:43 AM  
2 votes:

Lost Thought 00: Krieghund: I have little demand for Windows 8, because I'm still happy with Windows 7.

They'll be releasing some updates soon in order to fix that problem


Not if they ever want another enterprise customer.

Hint: Microsoft didn't make their billions from home users.
2012-10-29 10:46:27 AM  
2 votes:
The tiles remind me of a cash register at McDonalds with pictures of the food instead of numbers.
2012-10-30 11:45:27 AM  
1 votes:

Caelistis: I am not Linux_Yes by any stretch of the imagination. However, that being said, I use Mint almost exclusively save for the reboot in to Win7 for gaming.

Good shiat, but definitely not ready for the enterprise environment.

Cinnamon > Metro



you would use Mate in an enterprise environment, not cinnamon. ta-dah!
2012-10-29 08:25:35 PM  
1 votes:
7.mshcdn.com

What's a Windows 8?
2012-10-29 08:21:09 PM  
1 votes:

Generation_D: Why would anyone want an OS that looks like AOL Junior 1996?

pants on fire stupid stuff from Redmond, and no amount of attempted hipster branding is going to change it.



Does anybody remember Microsoft Bob? Could Windows 8 be the next Bob?
2012-10-29 08:19:42 PM  
1 votes:

jaylectricity: I thought everybody knew to use every other new OS from Microsoft...2000, XP, 7...I'll be waiting for whatever comes AFTER 8.


God I still miss windows 2000. And I'm only 21. I never could crash or get that thing to lag.
/Also the OS-tan for it is awesome. ultrx.net
2012-10-29 07:25:38 PM  
1 votes:
Maybe because I JUST bought a new machine capable of running 7, I'LL BE DAMNED if i'm dropping more cash to buy another machine with the hardware necessary to take advantage of all the whiz bang?
2012-10-29 06:58:19 PM  
1 votes:

whistleridge: That, and 7 is in no way outdated yet.

If I could use XP for 8 years, no problem, I don't see any reason why I shouldn't get the same sort of life out of 7. Especially since big OS changes mean issues with a lot of the other programs I've purchased. Even if 8 didn't look totally idiotic (and it does), I would see zero reason to change. It ain't broke, after all...


8 is basically 7 with a silly front-end and a bunch of backend usability stuff stripped out. At least that was my take on it from the several hours of toying around with it in a VM a couple months ago. I have little to no interest in a further nerfed OS.
2012-10-29 03:47:02 PM  
1 votes:

MrSteve007: Also, for those of you who like to refresh/reinstall your operating system, these new settings in the control panel of Win8 are pretty damned nice.
[sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 614x671]


You work for Microsoft, don't you?
2012-10-29 03:18:59 PM  
1 votes:

MrSteve007: Again, somewhat minor stuff, but I find it very, very useful - and frustrating when I go back to older systems like W7 and the archaic XP.


Shame they didn't release it with a cogent UI.

solyhhit: Was Windows 7 working too well? Yeah let's f**k that up.


Welcome to how MSFT has operated its entire existence. They scramble to please their customers, then get cocky and think they should be an "innovator" and proceed to utterly embarrass themselves. Now they'll have to scramble again.
2012-10-29 03:16:42 PM  
1 votes:

RoyBatty: MrSteve007: Also, for those of you who like to refresh/reinstall your operating system, these new settings in the control panel of Win8 are pretty damned nice.

Hey, so how well will it install over an existing Win 7 installation?

Can it be uninstalled leaving the original Win 7?


I had a pretty old (3 year) installation of Win 7 Pro 64-bit, with a ton of corporate cruft on it. It warned me that some of my old programs from the OEM (like Toshiba update) won't work on the new OS, and the major one that I had to uninstall was an older version Symantec.

During my first update attempt, it appeared to have frozen up during the last stages, so I crossed my fingers and did a hard reboot (mind you, this was mid-install). It came up with a prompt saying something along the lines: "It appears your install did work, restoring Windows 7." It had fully restored Win 7 without issue.

I decided to try again (this time with a reboot, after removing Symantec) and I left for lunch. When I came back, W8 was ready to go. So far I haven't had any program issues (Adobe CS6 Master suite works without issue, same goes for the Autodesk 2013 suite), with exception for the occasional crash of the Outlook 2013 preview during startup - which frankly, for a beta piece of software, is expected.

As for rolling back to Win 7 after full install, it should be doable if you haven't deleted the gigantic windows.old folder, and still have the Win 7 disk. Instructions
2012-10-29 03:06:46 PM  
1 votes:

MrSteve007: Also, for those of you who like to refresh/reinstall your operating system, these new settings in the control panel of Win8 are pretty damned nice.


Hey, so how well will it install over an existing Win 7 installation?

Can it be uninstalled leaving the original Win 7?
2012-10-29 02:54:22 PM  
1 votes:
Sounds like the interface on my wife's phone. Locks up for no reason and/or stops processing calls and texts.

Nice to know the re-boot still works ... sort-of ... for a while. It's traditional.
2012-10-29 02:51:40 PM  
1 votes:

Lost Thought 00: Krieghund: I have little demand for Windows 8, because I'm still happy with Windows 7.

They'll be releasing some updates soon in order to fix that problem


Yeah, can't wait until all my current computers start mysteriously slowing down to the point where I am forced to buy a new machine if I want to do anything internet-related. Yay.
2012-10-29 02:50:10 PM  
1 votes:
Was Windows 7 working too well? Yeah let's f**k that up.
2012-10-29 02:46:54 PM  
1 votes:

Fark_Guy_Rob: But I won't be replacing Ubuntu/Windows 7 on my tablet and I don't see any reason why I'd ever put Windows 8 on my desktop..


You'd be missing out on a noticeably faster computer, with far more security, better multimonitor support, longer battery life (for a laptop) and a myriad of OS improvements (pausing/canceling of individual file transfers/deletes).

Heck, for $0 - the improvements in the task manager should be enough. Here's how mine looks right now.
sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net

Care to see how much resources different programs have used over the current session?
sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net

Or finally discrete breakdown of throughput on each hard drive and network source?
sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net

Again, somewhat minor stuff, but I find it very, very useful - and frustrating when I go back to older systems like W7 and the archaic XP.
2012-10-29 02:23:11 PM  
1 votes:
If I were buying a new tablet device - I'd probably get a Windows 8 tablet. The Surface looking pretty interesting and I really do enjoy Windows 8.

But I won't be replacing Ubuntu/Windows 7 on my tablet and I don't see any reason why I'd ever put Windows 8 on my desktop. And I say this as someone who would pay $0 for it.
2012-10-29 02:19:40 PM  
1 votes:
I'll jump from 7 when I'm done with it. I'll let other people work the kinks out of 8, or conclude that it's un-salvageable like most even-numbered MS OS releases. Microsoft is asking me to move from an OS I'm okay with to a total wildcard, and have me pay for the privilege.

Pass.
2012-10-29 02:06:14 PM  
1 votes:
Skip even numbered Microsoft OS releases.
2012-10-29 01:55:34 PM  
1 votes:

slayer199: What did they farking expect? You spend 17 years getting people accustomed to one way of doing things...the Start button. Then you eliminate it. It would have been one thing if it had been a gradual switch, giving users the option to go back to the Start Button/menu. But to make a radical change like that and expect consumers to adopt it? Someone at Microsoft must be stoned.

Additionally (and I've said this before), the Enterprise will not switch to Windows 8. Many companies are still on XP and are in the process of migrating to Windows 7. I can't see a situation where a company will embrace Windows 8 because of the amount of retraining it will require.

Furthermore, they've made the same UI changes to Server 2012. WTF Microsoft? I don't need the same farking interface that I'd have on a tablet on a server. Despite the fact that I'm more a VMware/Storage guy, I still have to do some support on the OSes. Thankfully, RedHat isn't stupid enough to make such radical changes.


Not only are many companies on Windows XP (and governments as well), they're still using the MS Office 2003. Since I used to work in the Canadian Government, I didn't bother upgrading my own Office to 2007 or 2010 since if I did any work on my home PC, I would need to make absolutely sure it was all back-compatible. After getting downsized (not unhappy about that all told, though I do miss the people and the regular paycheque) I've gone back to school and gotten a cheap student copy of MS Office 2010.

I farking hate MS Office 2010. I farking hate it with a farking passion. I hate the Ribbon. I hate all the damned buttons that make things look so pretty but are utterly useless for me. I don't need to have a crap load of cell formats taking up 75% of the ribbon - if I want to make a cell look a certain way I can damn well format it myself. hate that all the things I do need (like adding Macros to Excel, and Watermarks to documents) are hidden behind layers of obfuscation. I like computers. I like software. And I farking hate MS Office 2007-2010. I can see why the government refuses to upgrade; you've got hundreds of thousands of people in the government who would need to be retrained on how to use farking MS Office, even if that retraining was just a single days worth, going through MS Word, MS Excel and MS Powerpoint. I'm a guy who used all of those for 6 hours a day, 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year. I'm the guy in the office that everyone would come over to and ask for help. And I need to have a training course to use this crap.

Take all of that and say "Ditto" for Windows 8, from what I've seen of it.
2012-10-29 01:45:38 PM  
1 votes:
"I am not real thrilled they are changing things around," Dionne said. "Windows 7 does everything I want it to. Where is the return on my investment to learn a new OS?"

And that's pretty much hitting the nail on the head. One thing not mentioned is that from WIN95 thru WIN7 the basic system remained the same. Switching to something else meant having to relearn everything. The big excuse for business for NOT switching to some *Nix system was "OMG!! Retrains because DIFFERENTS!!". Now WIN8 makes everything different and that eliminates a major reason that prevented switching. If you're going to retrain anyway, why not retrain on something different?

/still running XP, in a virtual machine, on Debian
//how does WIN7 do in a VM?
2012-10-29 01:38:06 PM  
1 votes:

Lando Lincoln: RoyBatty: My desktop is finally reaching it's Windows 7 entropy limit and Desktop Exploder keeps crashing.

So I am thinking of doing the old wipe and reinstall on it.

Granted under XP this was required once a year, and on 7 it seems to be required once in three years...

So in other words, you visit a lot of porn sites and/or steal a lot of software.


Yeah, sure.

It's not that 3 years of loading crappy programs with crappy installers can't eventually bork windows 7.

(I think it's Google Drive that's causing the issue, it seems to go away when Google Drive is not running.)
2012-10-29 01:35:15 PM  
1 votes:

Gig103: RoyBatty: Does Windows 8 bring anything to a roughly 3 year old $700 (that is, basic hardware, nothing special) HP desktop?

$40 to Microsoft's coffers?


/I keed because I don't actually know the answer


Oh, I can get a free license. So the true cost is more like the waste of time if I end up tweaking it for a day or so and then end up having to reinstall 7 a week later.
2012-10-29 01:32:28 PM  
1 votes:

MrSteve007: Gig103: If you disable metro (can you?) what happens when you press the Windows key?

I don't believe so, unless you install a 3rd party program like start8 - but I haven't installed or played with it.


Classic Shell doesn't disable Metro in any way, just gives you the start button. Pressing the Windows Key just brings up the traditional Start menu.

This is my point, if Classic Shell can give you the W7 look and feel without in any way compromising the touchscreen functions then why the hell couldn't MS have done that in the first place?
2012-10-29 01:32:06 PM  
1 votes:

RoyBatty: My desktop is finally reaching it's Windows 7 entropy limit and Desktop Exploder keeps crashing.

So I am thinking of doing the old wipe and reinstall on it.

Granted under XP this was required once a year, and on 7 it seems to be required once in three years...

But anyway, since 8 does have a desktop mode, and presumably a bunch of improvements in speed, I am considering loading 8 on to it.

Does Windows 8 bring anything to a roughly 3 year old $700 (that is, basic hardware, nothing special) HP desktop?


Having used the Beta at home, on my older desktops, I would say "no".
It works fine once you figure it out and configure it the way you like it (took me about twenty minutes), and it is a little faster - especially on boot-up and opening apps. But I wouldn't spend the money - the new capabilities it has don't apply to an older desktop with no touchscreen.
I would buy a new device that had W8 on it without hesitation, but I see no reason to upgrade a standard desktop or laptop to it.
2012-10-29 01:18:24 PM  
1 votes:

Gig103: If you disable metro (can you?) what happens when you press the Windows key?


I don't believe so, unless you install a 3rd party program like start8 - but I haven't installed or played with it.
2012-10-29 01:14:12 PM  
1 votes:

RoyBatty: Does Windows 8 bring anything to a roughly 3 year old $700 (that is, basic hardware, nothing special) HP desktop?


$40 to Microsoft's coffers?


/I keed because I don't actually know the answer
2012-10-29 01:12:15 PM  
1 votes:
My desktop is finally reaching it's Windows 7 entropy limit and Desktop Exploder keeps crashing.

So I am thinking of doing the old wipe and reinstall on it.

Granted under XP this was required once a year, and on 7 it seems to be required once in three years...

But anyway, since 8 does have a desktop mode, and presumably a bunch of improvements in speed, I am considering loading 8 on to it.

Does Windows 8 bring anything to a roughly 3 year old $700 (that is, basic hardware, nothing special) HP desktop?
2012-10-29 01:02:35 PM  
1 votes:
The funny thing is, if Windows 8 were more like Windows 7, they probably would have sold more copies. IT departments on XP right now and contemplating a switch would be more likely to move to 8 instead of 7 if 8 wasn't such a Frankenbeast.
2012-10-29 12:59:50 PM  
1 votes:
7 works great for me.

I was one of the poor idiots who got suckered in to using Windows ME.

Not going to fall for it again. If 8 is in use and stable for a couple years I'll think about it. But I seriously doubt that's gonna happen.
2012-10-29 12:59:30 PM  
1 votes:

Sargun: Flint Ironstag: MrSteve007: Complainers in 2009 = Ugggh! When will Microsoft get with the program and release an OS that is designed for a touchscreen!?!

Complainers in 2012 = Ugggh! My start menu is now designed to work with both a touchscreen and a mouse. The world's going to end!!!

Why was it necessary to remove the Start button, My Computer etc from the traditional desktop to make it touch compatible?

Desktop PCs and tablets are like cars and bikes. Should some car/bike manufacturer like Honda bring out a unified set of controls for both their cars and bikes? Should car controls be changed drastically to make them "more bike like"? Take away that accelerator pedal, put a twist throttle on the steering wheel! You'll get used to it!

No one is complaining that they added touch screen functions. They're complaining because they took away mouse functions that millions of people were used to that could have been kept without compromising the touch functions in any way.

Because Metro replaces the Start Button and "My Computer" was only a shortcut. You can still do the exact same thing (actually, more) in 8 than 7 in Computer.


So instead of clicking Start then the program I want, or ALL Programs, then what I want) I now have to find the three pixels in the corner, wait for a pop up to appear, click Metro, then scroll sideways to find what I want? That's a pain.

And Metro programs and Desktop programs don't talk. On Desktop I have all my bookmarks bar in Chrome. In Metro Chrome has none of my bookmarks. Open Chrome in Metro and it is full screen only. What if I want a small Chrome window and something else, that is already open in Desktop, open? I can only do that in Desktop, which means I can't use the Metro as a Start button to open it.
2012-10-29 12:52:00 PM  
1 votes:
Tried it when I went to Best Buy yesterday for something else. I think Ballmer is so desperate to make a new fad he's betting the whole company on this (stupid) idea.
2012-10-29 12:45:49 PM  
1 votes:
I decided to go to a store and try it. And it was as bad as I thought it would be. Now obviously that means that I went into it with some bias, but here was what I didn't like..

1) The Control Panel is now "Settings" but has about as many options as Android, instead of the myriad advanced settings I have in Windows 7
2) Instead of hitting the Windows key and starting to type to search for something (the MS version of Spotlight) now you need to go over to the far right, hover until a bar comes up, click Search, and then start typing. It needs to be an easily accessible button.
3) Metro and all the new "apps" are designed for full screen, including this fancy version of a Start Menu. And I don't like anything being full screen on my combined 3200x1050 dual monitor setup.
4) Mail, Calendar, and People are all Hotmail/Live based. Obviously they want us using their products. But I use Google like a lot of people so this just turns me off.

Microsoft should get the point, and leave the entire Windows 7 line available, and market Win8 for the portable computing environment it was clearly designed for. I haven't used Mac OS X in a while, but last I checked they don't use iOS for their Macbooks. And that's what this feels like.
2012-10-29 12:33:29 PM  
1 votes:
As a system administrator for a department in a state university, I wish to express how enthusiastically I have been looking forward to not upgrading our Windows 7 systems to Windows 8.

/It almost rivals my enthusiasm for not seeing Twilight: Breaking Dawn Part 2.
//Almost.
2012-10-29 12:32:22 PM  
1 votes:
It's not because I haven't forgiven them for Vista; it's because I haven't forgiven them for ruining Office. I'm afraid Windows 8 will do to Windows what Office 2010 did to Office 2003.
2012-10-29 12:29:52 PM  
1 votes:
Complainers in 2009 = Ugggh! When will Microsoft get with the program and release an OS that is designed for a touchscreen!?!

Complainers in 2012 = Ugggh! My start menu is now designed to work with both a touchscreen and a mouse. The world's going to end!!!
2012-10-29 12:10:28 PM  
1 votes:

mjohnson71: So will Windows 7 still be available for purchase or as a "downgrade" option? I'm probably 6 months away from buying a new computer.


AFAIK it is if you buy a PC with W8. If you go with the W8 Pro for $40 offer like I did then you can't.
2012-10-29 12:02:58 PM  
1 votes:

LesserEvil: Microsoft is insane for thinking they can push that, either.


Ms should have just pushed out Metro for tablets and fancy touch screen laptops, while keeping Windows 7 as the desktop OS. More focus on the back end type things, letting tablets run full Windows apps, making WinRT suck less, lots of flawless integration via associating a device to a Windows Live account, etc. Then in a couple years some VP or Present will want the same interface on his work laptop that the tablet he watches porn on at home has. So he'll come knocking on IT's door and demand a network wide upgrade. That's MS's cue to step in and offer Windows 8 for the with Metro to enterprise folk (and with a classic boot option to avoid pissing off the backend folk).

As it stands they just make the whole Win8 ecosystem unattractive since it has such a high up front knowledge cost. It's better to follow the iPhone model. For awhile a lot of execs carried both a Blackberry and an iPhone or iPhone 3G. They finally got sick of dual phones and demanded iPhones be allowed on the corporate network and low and behold now iOS devices are common in corporate environments. Right now there is no emotional investment in the OS so all the execs hear is "We'll loose X billion in productive hours as people learn the new UI." You need them thinking "I want my shiny new toy on the company network" to get something new in the door.

/our intranet still has Win2k boxes on it
//a lot of them
2012-10-29 11:52:41 AM  
1 votes:

extroverted_suicide: Actual headline is "Poll: Scant demand for Microsoft's Windows 8".

Now see the picture right below that headline. Gee, I farking wonder why?

If a single major business in the world (other than MS) upgrades to Windows 8, I will be completely floored. OTOH, I am betting sales of 7 will spike very soon, if they haven't already.


I work on the worlds largest intranet, and we have no plans to integrate a Windows 8 build for machines on that network. 400,000+ machines. The company I work for **IS** excited about Windows 8, though - but only on the hardware side. I suspect that has more to do with licensing and our relationship with Microsoft though. They were just as excited about Vista when it came out, for the same reasons (Our Intranet customers shunned Vista, too). Windows 7 will be the gold standard for corporate IT for 90~95% of the companies out there for some time. Hundreds of billions of dollars have been invested in desktop applications and nobody is interested in spending more money to redo all of that into Metro-compliant "apps", nor spend wads of cash on retraining millions of workers. Microsoft is insane for thinking they can push that, either.
2012-10-29 11:49:55 AM  
1 votes:

StrikitRich: Krieghund: I have little demand for Windows 8, because I'm still happy with Windows 7.

Meanwhile, the major corporation I now work for is still has us using XP because they're married to the customized version they force on us. Can believe how slow it runs on an i7.


XP can not use multi-core processors properly. You are probably better off with an old single core processor then a modern multi-core...
2012-10-29 11:46:48 AM  
1 votes:

ColSanders: NowhereMon: I tried it out, if you have a touch screen PC it is pretty cool. It's pretty useless if you don't.

Useless unless you like faster boot times, better performance, better security, and better battery life (The last two I can't confirm yet -- I've only seen them reported).


That didn't require Microsoft removing the Start button, or making the default that UI Metro nonsense. All of the benefits of Windows 8 to desktop users could have been delivered with the same UI as Windows 7 - and been welcomed by users universally and corporate IT departments alike.

I upgraded a new Win 7 PC (no touch screen) to 8. Yeah, some of the interface that is geared specifically toward touch screens is annoying at first, but once you learn a few keyboard shortcuts you get around pretty well. It's not for people who hate change, that's for sure, but I like it so far.

That's the point. You shouldn't have to learn a bunch of keyboard shortcuts to use a GRAPHICAL User Interface. Hovering around a spot on the screen to activate something is nonsense on a desktop with decent screen "real estate" - the pixel budget on a desktop isn't as tight as a phone or tablet, so why do they treat the screen like it is?

It's a huge step backwards. It's worse then a compromise, because it isn't any sort of compromise... it's a complete surrender to the phone/tablet UI mentality. It's also ridiculous that keyboard shortcuts are rationalized as "reasonable" in any sort of way for desktop users, because, hey, what else are they using those silly things for on a desktop?

The best way to explain using 8 on a non-touch screen device is that it's like watching a 3D movie on a standard TV; it doesn't really change the movie, but when a scene comes up that was obviously made to stick out of the screen you notice it and know you're missing the effect.

This makes no sense.

As somebody who has spent 25 years writing software (that users well liked, I might add) to improve productivity, Windows 8 is a painful step backwards in all ways.
2012-10-29 11:44:51 AM  
1 votes:
So will Windows 7 still be available for purchase or as a "downgrade" option? I'm probably 6 months away from buying a new computer.
2012-10-29 11:37:26 AM  
1 votes:

Babwa Wawa: Generation_D: Why would anyone want an OS that looks like AOL Junior 1996?

NowhereMon: I tried it out, if you have a touch screen PC it is pretty cool. It's pretty useless if you don't.

whistleridge: 7 is in no way outdated yet.

Take aside the interface for a minute. Windows 8 is wicked fast - been running it since RTM, and I'm still getting sub-10 second boot times - it takes longer to go through BIOS than it does to boot the OS and get to a usable screen. Also enjoying the enhanced multi-monitor support, and full-blown Hyper-V. It's quite nice.

I personally prefer the new start menu. I hated it at first, but after I customized it, I have everything that I use on a daily basis in one pane, no scrolling around. And anything I use hourly is on the task bar anyway. The biggest thing I don't like is how some metro-enabled apps would sometimes launch in metro mode when you want them in desktop mode. It seemed to happen willy-nilly at first, but after some poking around and customizing, it doesn't happen anymore.

Just my experience. But if you think the only new thing about Windows is MEtro, you're sorely mistaken.


I think IT departments didn't ask for this crap, I think legacy apps won't support it, and I think Microsoft just carelessly pushed a shiat-ton of whizz-bang off on the business world who only wanted security patches and incremental improvements.

Can't wait to see how all these "faster better" dorked up security. Because thats usually the trade off.

For home users without tech savvy, perhaps this is better.

For the workplace I just don't see it.
2012-10-29 11:27:00 AM  
1 votes:

Thats No Moose: My laptop is 4.5 years old, runs Vista like a dream, though I must be the only person in the world to say that. I use W7 at work and I love it, and wouldn't mind sticking to it... that said, I'm not too bothered about getting W8. never really been resistant to change after having gone through the UIs of 3.1, 95-98-2000, XP (mostly run in Classic mode except at work where I had no choice), Vista and 7. Worst case, there's Start8.


Nope, one of my MediaPCs is still running Vista, runs great and I've never gotten around to update it. As long as you did a clean install of Vista (ideally with a post SP1 disc) you pretty much can't tell it apart from Win7.

/that's likely the reason 7 was so awesome at launch, it was really just Vista SP 2.5 with some branding changes
2012-10-29 11:18:50 AM  
1 votes:
As a touch screen OS Windows 8 looks awesome. For conventional displays, Windows 7 is just fine. On the latter front, Microsoft is a victim of its own success. Hard to sell a new razor when the old one is doing just fine...
2012-10-29 11:18:10 AM  
1 votes:
I am not Linux_Yes by any stretch of the imagination. However, that being said, I use Mint almost exclusively save for the reboot in to Win7 for gaming.

Good shiat, but definitely not ready for the enterprise environment.

Cinnamon > Metro
2012-10-29 11:17:07 AM  
1 votes:
Vista SP1 and later actually wasn't bad. Normally by SP1 or SP2 at the latest, the MS product tends to be fine. We've all just learned not to buy MS products at launch. Win7 is really the oddball in that it was great at launch.
2012-10-29 11:16:27 AM  
1 votes:

gingerjet: enry: My employer is advising against Win 8, partially because of retraining that's necessary to use it. Now I've been in IT for about 20 years and have used every consumer version of Windows since 1.0. How much training is really necessary?

A lot. It fundamentally changes how you interact with applications and the OS. Your administrative assistants are going to freak out more about this than the Wordperfect to Microsoft Word switch you forced on them two decades ago.

/shudder at those memories


WHAR START MENU WHARRRR

/really. it's farking awful. I love WP7. I don't want it on my PC.
2012-10-29 11:10:59 AM  
1 votes:

enry: My employer is advising against Win 8, partially because of retraining that's necessary to use it. Now I've been in IT for about 20 years and have used every consumer version of Windows since 1.0. How much training is really necessary?


A lot. It fundamentally changes how you interact with applications and the OS. Your administrative assistants are going to freak out more about this than the Wordperfect to Microsoft Word switch you forced on them two decades ago.

/shudder at those memories
2012-10-29 11:10:28 AM  
1 votes:

JohnBigBootay: I support 20 pc's at work and it's coming so I figured someone should know how to work it.


If you're reliant on group policy do yourself a huge favor and start working on it now. The new group policy options to manage Windows 8 are a terrible burden if you don't have the policy set EXACTLY as you want it from the first time you start deploying new 8 machines. In our lab we wound up with half the damn things covered in apps that were there and took up tile space (initially, anyway) but couldn't be launched while the other half didn't have those apps from the start. Very annoying.
2012-10-29 11:03:10 AM  
1 votes:
Add me to the Windows 7 works great and when I need a new computer I will change camp. My desk top is 2 years old my Laptop 6 months old so I will upgrade in about 2 years.

Now that said if it really works the way they claim, and I can have one Operating System and the same software on my Computers, Tablet, and Phone. I can how it can really be useful. Hell Javascript on my phone would be great.
2012-10-29 10:55:50 AM  
1 votes:
I'll think about upgrading in about 8 years, when Win 7 support ends.
2012-10-29 10:55:44 AM  
1 votes:

Lumpmoose: After a decade of using Windows on home-brew machines, I gave up trying to get Vista to work reliably and bought a Mac. So yeah, pretty much (and I survived Windows ME).


you used vista and ME?

Well, at least you didn't follow that up with a third terrible waste of your moneyohmygodyou bought a mac too??

Do you pour sugar into your own gas tank?
2012-10-29 10:53:29 AM  
1 votes:
After a decade of using Windows on home-brew machines, I gave up trying to get Vista to work reliably and bought a Mac. So yeah, pretty much (and I survived Windows ME).
2012-10-29 10:51:27 AM  
1 votes:

Krieghund: I have little demand for Windows 8, because I'm still happy with Windows 7.


Meanwhile, the major corporation I now work for is still has us using XP because they're married to the customized version they force on us. Can believe how slow it runs on an i7.
2012-10-29 10:46:45 AM  
1 votes:

whistleridge: That, and 7 is in no way outdated yet.


^This^. Even if Windows 8 is the best thing since sliced cheese, the biggest problem Microsoft has is that 7 is still awesome.

I have no intention of ever "upgrading" a perfectly fine Windows 7 computer to 8. But when I ever get around to buying a new computer, it'll probably be an 8 machine.
2012-10-29 10:32:29 AM  
1 votes:

NowhereMon: : It's a tablet, it's a laptop , it's a tablet, it's a laptop...


i'm on a horse!
2012-10-29 10:31:47 AM  
1 votes:

Generation_D: Why would anyone want an OS that looks like AOL Junior 1996?


NowhereMon: I tried it out, if you have a touch screen PC it is pretty cool. It's pretty useless if you don't.


whistleridge: 7 is in no way outdated yet.


Take aside the interface for a minute. Windows 8 is wicked fast - been running it since RTM, and I'm still getting sub-10 second boot times - it takes longer to go through BIOS than it does to boot the OS and get to a usable screen. Also enjoying the enhanced multi-monitor support, and full-blown Hyper-V. It's quite nice.

I personally prefer the new start menu. I hated it at first, but after I customized it, I have everything that I use on a daily basis in one pane, no scrolling around. And anything I use hourly is on the task bar anyway. The biggest thing I don't like is how some metro-enabled apps would sometimes launch in metro mode when you want them in desktop mode. It seemed to happen willy-nilly at first, but after some poking around and customizing, it doesn't happen anymore.

Just my experience. But if you think the only new thing about Windows is MEtro, you're sorely mistaken.
2012-10-29 09:45:51 AM  
1 votes:
Hey, you insist on selling a desktop OS and force me to browse it like a tablet? Cool... Let me know how that works out.

It's also pretty neat to see Microsoft tell enterprises to f*ck off. I'm sure that's a sound strategy that would never cause businesses to ignore another OS release...
2012-10-29 08:55:46 AM  
1 votes:
Why would anyone want an OS that looks like AOL Junior 1996?

pants on fire stupid stuff from Redmond, and no amount of attempted hipster branding is going to change it.
 
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