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(CBS Los Angeles 2)   Woman exceeds speaking time allotment at city council meeting, is promptly arrested (w/video)   (losangeles.cbslocal.com) divider line 55
    More: Asinine, riverside press-enterprise, city councils  
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8975 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Oct 2012 at 3:58 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-29 04:00:35 AM
We need these people at the next presidential debate.
 
2012-10-29 04:01:00 AM
Sounds reasonable.
 
2012-10-29 04:04:49 AM
Well, that'll teach her to speak for more than three minutes!
Nothing to see here, citizen...move along, if you know what's good for you.
 
2012-10-29 04:06:51 AM
fark this species,

I hope we meet aliens and they wipe us out.
 
2012-10-29 04:09:19 AM
MurphyMurphy I would like to sign up for your news letter.
 
2012-10-29 04:10:03 AM
FTFA: Riverside Mayor Ron Loveridge, who has been presiding over the City Council for 32, said the incident was the first time he had seen anyone arrested during one of their meetings.

32 what? Years? Months? Seconds? Districts? Dollars in pay? Lobbyists that purchased him?
 
2012-10-29 04:13:49 AM
"City officials said officers used their discretion when Wright didn't follow the rules," according to the Press-Enterprise. Council members deny ordering her arrest.

That sounds totally legit. They just decided to interrupt a city council meeting and make the mayor look bad at their own discretion.


City Council meetings are typically recorded and the video posted on the city website, but Tuesday's incident was not caught on camera; that's because Loveridge called a recess when police intervened and the video camera is typically turned off during council recesses.

Oh...
 
2012-10-29 04:16:17 AM
Curious if Cali allows officers to arrest for a civil infraction such as that. In MI that is strictly not allowed. That's like arresting for simple speeding (no not careless or reckless driving). Huge overkill and specifically why MI officers are prohibited from arresting for civil infractions. And seeing as she was cited, it seems like that's all they have her on. Bad move on the part of the city and those individual officers.
 
2012-10-29 04:16:54 AM
I have to know what party she is in before I know whether to be outraged at or supportive of her handlers
 
2012-10-29 04:17:09 AM
Without more info, can't say if it is reasonable or not. I mean while it might seem silly, some people will carry the fark on and just not yield the floor. I remember way back in high school we had to go to a city council meeting for my government class, I guess so we could learn government sucks because man was it boring. There was one old dude who apparently everyone knew which means he must come talk a lot. He rambled on for his allotted time, and then kept rambling. They had to threaten to have him hauled out before he finally went and sat down.

So if this was a situation of 3 minutes expired, she was still talking, and they arrested her, then ya fark those guys. However if this was a case of her time expired, they told her to stop, she kept going, they told her to stop or get arrested, she kept going, and then she got arrested, well it makes sense. If you don't put limits on shiat some people will just go on forever.

Given the propensity for old people to ramble, and for city government to be retarded, I can see it going either way.
 
2012-10-29 04:17:43 AM
They don't mention how long she exceeded the time limit. You don't get arrested for going 3:01 out of 3:00 and speaking with civility.
 
2012-10-29 04:23:41 AM
I've attended city council meetings where people giving public testimony refused to stop talking after being told their time was up. They shut the microphone off and the security guard approached the person and asked them to leave. I've never seen someone refuse to leave, but if they did, arresting the violater is a reasonable step to take, assuming its legal to do so.
 
2012-10-29 04:26:59 AM

Atomic Spunk: arresting the violater is a reasonable step to take,


Maybe. Depending on what level of crime their actions are consistent with and whether their state law allows arrest for that crime. For instance, in Michigan, there are 3 levels of crimes. Civil Infractions, Misdemeanors, and Felonies. An officer may only arrest for Misdemeanors and Felonies. I would think this is likely true in other states too. If what this lady did was only a Civil Infraction (as possibly indicated by her being ticketed) the arrest may not be lawful.
 
2012-10-29 04:29:17 AM
The fact that she wasn't tazed is actually pretty promising.
 
2012-10-29 04:29:54 AM
It pleases me greatly that the liberal utopia of California stands as a model for what the rest of he country can stride to attain.

The rest of the world should be so lucky.
 
2012-10-29 04:32:39 AM

taurusowner: Atomic Spunk: arresting the violater is a reasonable step to take,

Maybe. Depending on what level of crime their actions are consistent with and whether their state law allows arrest for that crime. For instance, in Michigan, there are 3 levels of crimes. Civil Infractions, Misdemeanors, and Felonies. An officer may only arrest for Misdemeanors and Felonies. I would think this is likely true in other states too. If what this lady did was only a Civil Infraction (as possibly indicated by her being ticketed) the arrest may not be lawful.


Yes, the narrow vision of the world you have formed by living in Michigan best explains the laws and procedures in the rest of the country. Especially California.
 
2012-10-29 04:33:33 AM

taurusowner: Atomic Spunk: arresting the violater is a reasonable step to take,

Maybe. Depending on what level of crime their actions are consistent with and whether their state law allows arrest for that crime. For instance, in Michigan, there are 3 levels of crimes. Civil Infractions, Misdemeanors, and Felonies. An officer may only arrest for Misdemeanors and Felonies. I would think this is likely true in other states too. If what this lady did was only a Civil Infraction (as possibly indicated by her being ticketed) the arrest may not be lawful.


Why did you remove the part of my post where I said, "...assuming it's legal to do so" then proceed to try to teach me what I already know? Here's a lesson that may assist you in the future - first understand what a person says before you start acting like a prick. You're welcome.
 
2012-10-29 05:01:49 AM
She should have shut her cake hole when her time was up.
 
2012-10-29 05:11:23 AM
I would have zero tolerance for the cops behavior and I would have them executed on the spot. That would be my legacy.
 
2012-10-29 05:38:24 AM

fiver5: taurusowner: Atomic Spunk: arresting the violater is a reasonable step to take,

Maybe. Depending on what level of crime their actions are consistent with and whether their state law allows arrest for that crime. For instance, in Michigan, there are 3 levels of crimes. Civil Infractions, Misdemeanors, and Felonies. An officer may only arrest for Misdemeanors and Felonies. I would think this is likely true in other states too. If what this lady did was only a Civil Infraction (as possibly indicated by her being ticketed) the arrest may not be lawful.

Yes, the narrow vision of the world you have formed by living in Michigan best explains the laws and procedures in the rest of the country. Especially California.


Douche much? Did you miss the parts in which taurusowner used qualifying words, words that expressed his/her uncertainty as to whether MI law is similar to that in CA? By your logic, we shouldn't share what our experiences are like in our respective locales because it's somehow imposing our narrow vision of the world on others.
 
2012-10-29 05:52:13 AM

fiver5: It pleases me greatly that the liberal utopia of California stands as a model for what the rest of he country can stride to attain.


There are huge areas of California that are barking-mad conservative.
 
2012-10-29 06:01:23 AM
All they needed to do is spray her with water from a plant watering bottle.
 
2012-10-29 06:14:08 AM
Wow, three minutes. Here in Maryland they arrest you after 120 seconds.
 
2012-10-29 06:16:24 AM
Can I have this in my staff meeting in a few hours? That one programmer refuses to stop pontificating about his time sheet application?
 
2012-10-29 06:20:14 AM

JerkyMeat: I would have zero tolerance for the cops behavior and I would have them executed on the spot. That would be my legacy.


Mine too bro - except I'd do the executing!
 
2012-10-29 06:20:55 AM
"I cannot get up without putting my hands down!"

What yhe Fark?
 
2012-10-29 06:26:24 AM

Buffet: "I cannot get up without putting my hands down!"

What yhe Fark?


She's 60 years old. They had her on the ground. Think about it for a moment, then get back to us.
 
2012-10-29 06:31:14 AM

Buffet: "I cannot get up without putting my hands down!"

What yhe Fark?


I think she means that she needs to use her hands to push and/or pull herself into an upright position. She's 60 years old so there's likely some arthritis involved.

As someone who is the same age there have been times when the arthritis in my left knee and right hip have been severe enough that it's been difficult to stand up without using my hands.
 
2012-10-29 06:46:18 AM

taurusowner: Atomic Spunk: arresting the violater is a reasonable step to take,

Maybe. Depending on what level of crime their actions are consistent with and whether their state law allows arrest for that crime. For instance, in Michigan, there are 3 levels of crimes. Civil Infractions, Misdemeanors, and Felonies. An officer may only arrest for Misdemeanors and Felonies. I would think this is likely true in other states too. If what this lady did was only a Civil Infraction (as possibly indicated by her being ticketed) the arrest may not be lawful.


That's really interesting and I never actually thought of detainment in those terms. It makes a lot of sense though and I like the idea as a rough guide for members of law enforcement. Thank you for pointing that out.
 
2012-10-29 07:15:20 AM
Anyone who believes what this country should be about...should be pissed off reading this story. Maybe everybody should have proceeded to break the 3 minute rule from that point on. Hope those cops, and that mayor stay in hot water for a very long time. Keep the spot light on them.
 
2012-10-29 07:18:02 AM
As someone who has been to countless city council meetings, I can assure you that there's no reason for ANYONE to speak for more than three minutes.
 
2012-10-29 07:35:12 AM
If you can't get in the key points of your statement in 3 minutes or less then you need to run for federal office. Senate in particular. You has a talent.
 
2012-10-29 07:43:46 AM
I have a hard time getting worked up here, no, really, I tried.

She was cited for a misdemeanor, which can be an arrestable crime, as opposed to a civil infraction

What would help me get worked up a little better is video of the part just before she was arrested. Was she making salient points about a matter before the council or was she ranting? How many times was she told her time had expired, just once or multiple times over several minutes? How many times was she told to step back so that others could have their turn?
 
2012-10-29 08:13:00 AM
On the plus side, it wasn't a SWAT team kicking in the door to her house at the wrong address, tazering her and killing her beloved pet poodle. This time.
 
2012-10-29 08:17:27 AM
That's retarded. They should have tasered her first.
 
2012-10-29 08:23:22 AM
Alternate source:
LA Times

Karen Wright was blasting a proposed city contract for sludge waste removal at the council meeting Tuesday when the red lights blinked, signaling her time was up.

Over the next 30 seconds, Riverside Mayor Ron Loveridge tried to stop her four times before a city police officer approached her at the lectern and asked her to sit down.

"No, I'm not sitting down," Wright told the officer, an exchange captured on the city's video of council proceedings. "No, I am not stepping out."

It was unclear how she ended up on the floor, but the video shows the officer pulling her arm. Loveridge said police placed handcuffs on her, but quickly took them off after Wright yelled that she was disabled.

Riverside Police Lt. Guy Toussaint said she was arrested on a misdemeanor charge but released on a citation rather than hauled into jail.
 

I'm only guessing that when police put their hands on her to remove her from the room, she struggled and was taken down. 

And more for background:

Loveridge said that Wright started showing up at council meetings a few years ago and became an active civic participant with "eclectic" interests who spends a lot of time preparing for her remarks.

"She speaks on every single discussion item at every public meeting every time," Loveridge said. "She speaks more than any council member or any mayor."

In fact, Loveridge said, Wright returned to council chambers after her run-in with police and spoke on two more items -- bringing her total speaking appearances to six on Tuesday. On some days, he said, she will fill out as many as 20 speaker cards.
 
2012-10-29 08:35:17 AM

jeffowl: Alternate source:
LA Times

Karen Wright was blasting a proposed city contract for sludge waste removal at the council meeting Tuesday when the red lights blinked, signaling her time was up.

Over the next 30 seconds, Riverside Mayor Ron Loveridge tried to stop her four times before a city police officer approached her at the lectern and asked her to sit down.

"No, I'm not sitting down," Wright told the officer, an exchange captured on the city's video of council proceedings. "No, I am not stepping out."

It was unclear how she ended up on the floor, but the video shows the officer pulling her arm. Loveridge said police placed handcuffs on her, but quickly took them off after Wright yelled that she was disabled.

Riverside Police Lt. Guy Toussaint said she was arrested on a misdemeanor charge but released on a citation rather than hauled into jail. 

I'm only guessing that when police put their hands on her to remove her from the room, she struggled and was taken down. 

And more for background:

Loveridge said that Wright started showing up at council meetings a few years ago and became an active civic participant with "eclectic" interests who spends a lot of time preparing for her remarks.

"She speaks on every single discussion item at every public meeting every time," Loveridge said. "She speaks more than any council member or any mayor."

In fact, Loveridge said, Wright returned to council chambers after her run-in with police and spoke on two more items -- bringing her total speaking appearances to six on Tuesday. On some days, he said, she will fill out as many as 20 speaker cards.


I am somewhat less outraged by this version.
 
2012-10-29 08:35:27 AM

jeffowl: Alternate source:
LA Times

Karen Wright was blasting a proposed city contract for sludge waste removal at the council meeting Tuesday when the red lights blinked, signaling her time was up.

Over the next 30 seconds, Riverside Mayor Ron Loveridge tried to stop her four times before a city police officer approached her at the lectern and asked her to sit down.

"No, I'm not sitting down," Wright told the officer, an exchange captured on the city's video of council proceedings. "No, I am not stepping out."

It was unclear how she ended up on the floor, but the video shows the officer pulling her arm. Loveridge said police placed handcuffs on her, but quickly took them off after Wright yelled that she was disabled.

Riverside Police Lt. Guy Toussaint said she was arrested on a misdemeanor charge but released on a citation rather than hauled into jail. 

I'm only guessing that when police put their hands on her to remove her from the room, she struggled and was taken down. 

And more for background:

Loveridge said that Wright started showing up at council meetings a few years ago and became an active civic participant with "eclectic" interests who spends a lot of time preparing for her remarks.

"She speaks on every single discussion item at every public meeting every time," Loveridge said. "She speaks more than any council member or any mayor."

In fact, Loveridge said, Wright returned to council chambers after her run-in with police and spoke on two more items -- bringing her total speaking appearances to six on Tuesday. On some days, he said, she will fill out as many as 20 speaker cards.


Thank you for the alternative source. Sounds to me like she was looking for a fight and finally found one.
 
2012-10-29 08:51:02 AM
Kneel before Zod
 
Xai
2012-10-29 08:56:51 AM
...In the land of the free!
 
2012-10-29 09:06:24 AM
As an outsider I'm always amazed by the sort of crap you americans are willing to take from your cops. How those two managed to get away from that puzzles me. I mean, they arrest a 60-year old for speaking to long? That's orwellian shiat right there. Land of the free, home of the brave my smelly ass.
 
2012-10-29 09:12:02 AM

taurusowner: Curious if Cali allows officers to arrest for a civil infraction such as that. In MI that is strictly not allowed. That's like arresting for simple speeding (no not careless or reckless driving). Huge overkill and specifically why MI officers are prohibited from arresting for civil infractions. And seeing as she was cited, it seems like that's all they have her on. Bad move on the part of the city and those individual officers.


It was almost certainly for disturbing the peace or something similar. Charges dropped and she was free to go soon after, but it was all to make a point.

In my experience all council meetings everywhere are loud lunatics versus tin pot dictators and loud lunatics that managed to get their way onto the council. Reasonable people will always be shouted down by everyone else. Getting active in local politics for a few years in my home city and then my adopted city was enough to turn me off from it for the rest of my life.
 
2012-10-29 09:25:22 AM

taurusowner: Atomic Spunk: arresting the violater is a reasonable step to take,

Maybe. Depending on what level of crime their actions are consistent with and whether their state law allows arrest for that crime. For instance, in Michigan, there are 3 levels of crimes. Civil Infractions, Misdemeanors, and Felonies. An officer may only arrest for Misdemeanors and Felonies. I would think this is likely true in other states too. If what this lady did was only a Civil Infraction (as possibly indicated by her being ticketed) the arrest may not be lawful.


A ticket is an arrest, it's just the friendliest possible sort of arrest. But I get what you mean, handcuffs & booking etc.

But there's a reason tickets have checkboxes for infraction or misdemeanor; even crimes that end up with jail time don't require arrest if the situation is defused enough and everyone goes home, like a big brawl. Any cop is perfectly within their rights to release anyone with a summons, except in certain states that have mandatory arrests for misdemeanor DV and things like that. They don't have a felony box because it'd be a waste of space, but they could give you one and not check either box if you somehow conned your way out.
 
2012-10-29 09:33:29 AM
They should introduce this policy at the Oscars
 
2012-10-29 09:45:44 AM

sycraft: Without more info, can't say if it is reasonable or not. I mean while it might seem silly, some people will carry the fark on and just not yield the floor. I remember way back in high school we had to go to a city council meeting for my government class, I guess so we could learn government sucks because man was it boring. There was one old dude who apparently everyone knew which means he must come talk a lot. He rambled on for his allotted time, and then kept rambling. They had to threaten to have him hauled out before he finally went and sat down.

So if this was a situation of 3 minutes expired, she was still talking, and they arrested her, then ya fark those guys. However if this was a case of her time expired, they told her to stop, she kept going, they told her to stop or get arrested, she kept going, and then she got arrested, well it makes sense. If you don't put limits on shiat some people will just go on forever.

Given the propensity for old people to ramble, and for city government to be retarded, I can see it going either way.


Yeah, that was my first thought on reading the title. The article doesn't say enough to know if that's what happened.
 
2012-10-29 10:35:05 AM

Olympus Mons: Anyone who believes what this country should be about...should be pissed off reading this story. Maybe everybody should have proceeded to break the 3 minute rule from that point on. Hope those cops, and that mayor stay in hot water for a very long time. Keep the spot light on them.


See the problem with your statement is that people tend to not speak to the issue before them, and thus limits are set. If a citizen can't get his/her point across on the goodness or badness of whatever the issue is in the allotted time then that person needs to learn to be more succinct in organizing their thoughts and stating them rationally. Most people I've seen that go over their allotted time say something along the lines of 'it's bad, so bad, so very, very bad' then talk about a totally unrelated issue to the question at hand.

Granted, arresting someone for exceeding the time limit is excessive, but I can certainly relate to the frustration felt during council meetings when everyone starts going over the time limit. It makes an otherwise fairly short meeting turn into hours and hours of agony for everyone. Not to mention the people exceeding their time also limit the amount of time that someone else has to speak.

It's a conundrum.
 
2012-10-29 11:10:26 AM
This is exactly the reason we have the second amendment. I'm disappointed those cops weren't beaten and lynched.
 
2012-10-29 11:50:10 AM

GentlemanJ: Well, that'll teach her to speak for more than three minutes!
Nothing to see here, citizen...move along, if you know what's good for you.


So does her opportunity to speak trump all the people behind her waiting for their chance?
 
2012-10-29 12:05:16 PM
"Riverside Mayor Ron Loveridge, who has been presiding over the City Council for 32, said the incident..."

The economy sure has ravaged the proof reading industry.
 
2012-10-29 12:06:58 PM
I have a part time job filming City Council meetings in my home town, and find this to be a bit of a stretch. When someone goes over 3 minutes at our meetings, the mayor first mutes the microphone. If the person continues, the mayor then calls for the security officer to escort the person out. I can only imagine that this person was resisting security, so police got involved.

What I hate is when a council member "moves for additional time" allowing someone to speak for an extra minute or so. It's usually seems to be for the people that are sucking up to the council and/or someone the council knows.
 
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