Frederick: \looking at you Kansas

I live in kansas, and we had a severe drought this summer. I can't help but wonder who all those farmers who cashed their federally subsidized crop insurance checks are still voting for romney and tea partiers with out any hint of the irony.

Can I ruin the thread?

MITT ROMNEY IS A CHODE

SlappyKincaid:
As for Hume I have not read his works but I have read Kant among others. I will check him out. Thanks!

[facepalm.jpg]
How the fark can you believe you comprehend a critique of the philosophy of the Enlightenment - Kant's Critique of Pure Reason was an explicit refutation of Hume - if you haven't studied the actual philosophy of the Enlightenment?

PS We tried having a weak federal government. The Articles of Confederation were an abject failure.

tuna fingers: To be fair, as a Democrat, we will see this same type of pandering in 4 years from the left.

But for right now, who would vote for this dickwad Romney?

Not nearly to the level of this years republican antics.

gameshowhost: Can I ruin the thread?

MITT ROMNEY IS A CHODE

DAMN YOU GAMESHOWHOST

We are acting like grownups here!

SlappyKincaid: katfairy: brigid_fitch:
Nope--the state has to declare a state of emergency and request assistance from FEMA. In fact, that was a contributing factor to the Katrina fiasco. Gov. Blanco didn't declare a state of emergency soon enough, delaying aid. Granted, the entire situation still managed to get royally botched from there, but the delay in requesting additional aid certainly didn't help them any.

By contrast, the MS governor declared it a day before LA did and FEMA was already standing by at the first hint of problems.

True. I remember at the time being stunned at how long it was taking the state government of LA to do anything, and being flat-out flabbergasted on reading that Bush actually called them to ask them what the hell they were doing. I wonder how much lower the death toll would have been if the governor had acted sooner.

There was a horrible delay in response to that disaster. Just awful. I hope that never happens again.

I still don't know if the State Government can override FEMA once they are envoked, or if FEMA can override the state government. It may be a question semantics but I'm curious to know the answer!

FEMA can be overridden by state governments. Unless if there is a military rebellion, the Federal government must respect their sovereignty

Genevieve Marie: gameshowhost: Can I ruin the thread?

MITT ROMNEY IS A CHODE

DAMN YOU GAMESHOWHOST

We are acting like grownups here!

_*teehee*

SlappyKincaid: katfairy: brigid_fitch:
Nope--the state has to declare a state of emergency and request assistance from FEMA. In fact, that was a contributing factor to the Katrina fiasco. Gov. Blanco didn't declare a state of emergency soon enough, delaying aid. Granted, the entire situation still managed to get royally botched from there, but the delay in requesting additional aid certainly didn't help them any.

By contrast, the MS governor declared it a day before LA did and FEMA was already standing by at the first hint of problems.

True. I remember at the time being stunned at how long it was taking the state government of LA to do anything, and being flat-out flabbergasted on reading that Bush actually called them to ask them what the hell they were doing. I wonder how much lower the death toll would have been if the governor had acted sooner.

There was a horrible delay in response to that disaster. Just awful. I hope that never happens again.

I still don't know if the State Government can override FEMA once they are envoked, or if FEMA can override the state government. It may be a question semantics but I'm curious to know the answer!

It cost her re-election too. The vast majority of my friends are progressives, and many of them went through Katrina. (My family did, I was in school in another state)

None of them voted for her again. Several of them held  their noses and voted Republican to get rid of her.

sendtodave: brigid_fitch: sendtodave: brigid_fitch: I think that's why Christie waited as long as he did to declare it (3pm today, as opposed to the rest of the East Coast states who declared it on Saturday). He's gunning for a 2016 presidential election and doesn't want to be seen relying on the Feds.

If FEMA comes late to the party, he can blame Obama. Natch.

As I said in another thread, if anyone--especially someone in NJ--complains that FEMA didn't act quickly enough, I'm going to beat them over the head w/a video of Christie's 2:45pm press conference. We were the last state on the East Coast to declare a state of emergency. That means FEMA had put aside resources for 7-8 states before we got added to the list.

Beat them over the head all you want, facts don't matter. Obama will be blamed for any delay in the response.

I'm thinking that Christie is playing politics with his constituency's lives.

Like Bush was with Katrina, right? Two can play that game

sendtodave: I'm thinking that Christie is playing politics with his constituency's lives.

I honestly don't think it'll go there. Katrina taught a lot of lessons there- and I guarantee they're prepared. I doubt there will be a delay in the response.

cman: Like Bush was with Katrina, right? Two can play that game

My thoughts there have always been... never attribute malice to that which can be explained by ignorance.

I genuinely believe that most of the federal agencies were completely and totally unprepared to deal with as many people who live in abject poverty as we have in New Orleans. I think there was some assumption that they had more resources than they did.

You almost have to live there for awhile to really get how many people in that city have almost nothing.

propasaurus: Romney has been consistently white

SlappyKincaid: So it was the governor that delayed FEMA and other agencies from responding quickly to the disaster? I knew there was delays but I always thought it was, in part, the Bush Administration's fault. If the local state doesn't invoke a state of emergency or request FEMA, I guess that means the federal government's hands are tied, which is what others said earlier in posts.

If anything, that answers my question then.

Very good to know! Thanks!


Honestly- it was a combination of a lot of failures by a lot of people. This is actually a pretty decent summary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_government_response_to_Hurr i cane_Katrina

 

propasaurus: I can't wait for the shills to get here with their rationalizations for this. Talking points are being distributed right about now.
I'm sure it'll be something about bloated federal government stealing tax money from citizens/states and the states could do better without burdensome federal FEMA/EPA regulations, but since FEMA hasn't been abolished yet we deserve to get back all the tax money we've paid into the failed bureaucracy and Obama failed to respond in time because he's punishing red states for not voting for him.
And something something Benghazi.

but....but....but....but....but....but....but....OBAMAPHONES IN BENGHAZI.

sendtodave: cman: Like Bush was with Katrina, right? Two can play that game

Playing games is precisely what we should NOT be doing.

I wasnt playing a real game, I was using an idiom to say that if you are gonna biatch about one person farking it up for everyone at least be consistent when a team member does the same a few years later.

AbbeySomeone: I never believed in shape shifters until I saw that man attempt to debate Obama.

I believe the political correct title is "changeling", you bigot

AbbeySomeone: I never believed in shape shifters until I saw that man attempt to debate Obama.


Heh. That just reminded me of boggarts, from Harry Potter. Take the shape of whatever frightens you most.

T-Servo: But isn't that evil redistribution?

I would bet he says something completely illogical, like "The federal government could have responded sooner to this storm, but FEMA refused to act until the state governors asked directly. So vote for me, and we'll use the money from a decrease in capital gains tax to fund state disaster programs that would have prevented this storm. Oh, and I would have prevented the seas from rising."

I'm kind of hoping that the storm impact isn't as bad as predicted and all disaster relief efforts run according to plan, personally. That way residents of these states get the help they need quickly, and the rest of us are spared from ever having to hear that speech.

Everyone wins!

Notice also what he said about privatization; sending that money to the private sector would be better than either the feds or the states handling emergency response. He didn't say that the private sector should step in and take over disaster relief or that private enterprise should fill gaps in coverage or anything like that. He said we should send the money we now spend on FEMA directly to the private sector. Then, what? Trust that they'll be there when needed? That if you didn't pay your disaster response company they won't dig your house out of the rubble?

Genevieve Marie: T-Servo: But isn't that evil redistribution?

I would bet he says something completely illogical, like "The federal government could have responded sooner to this storm, but FEMA refused to act until the state governors asked directly. So vote for me, and we'll use the money from a decrease in capital gains tax to fund state disaster programs that would have prevented this storm. Oh, and I would have prevented the seas from rising."

I'm kind of hoping that the storm impact isn't as bad as predicted and all disaster relief efforts run according to plan, personally. That way residents of these states get the help they need quickly, and the rest of us are spared from ever having to hear that speech.

Everyone wins!

I agree completely, and actually, I think that's the way it'll play out.

SlappyKincaid: Genevieve Marie:
I'm kind of hoping that the storm impact isn't as bad as predicted and all disaster relief efforts run according to plan, personally. That way residents of these states get the help they need quickly, and the rest of us are spared from ever having to hear that speech.

Everyone wins!

I completely agree. I truly hope this becomes a non-issue. The way every meteorologist is talking about this, I doubt it, but I do hope you're right!

I have never wanted to see a right turn happen so much in my life than this week.

sendtodave: I'm thinking that Christie is playing politics with his constituency's lives.

I think that part of it is he may now have national ambitions, and the clip of him telling people "Get the hell off the beach in Asbury Park and get out. You're done. It's 4:30, you've maximized your tan. Get off the beach." is haunting him it adds to the whole Jersey thug image he cant win with.

Im pissed with my mayor who has only closed schools on Monday. A third of all students take public transit to schools, and much more in upper grades. they would need to get the trains started by 6pm on tues to have the trains running in time and I dont think that will be happening. Hell they closed wall st, but they even shut electronic trading.

T-Servo: /love your dog

Thank you. She's happily snoring on my feet as I post. I'll pass along the compliment.

And yea, I just don't quite know what to expect from this one. Flooding for sure. I really do think the emergecy response teams are going to be super efficient this time. And it helps that you're not dealing with some of the unique challenges the gulf coast presents.

 

AdrienVeidt: Absolute pureed bullshiat, sweetheart. I read an article in Scientific American several years prior to Katrina that described the exact thing that happened and how horrible it would. Lots of people knew, the people in charge didn't care.

I don't overly care for being called sweetheart- probably because I read it in a New Jersey accent. *shudder*

But aside from that, I understand your point as well. I just know I've read about it quite a bit, and I know a lot of people that lived through it, and I think there was just a chain of major screw ups. Some from incompetence, but you're right- some because people didn't care.

 I just try not to lose sight of how complicated the disaster response to that storm was and I try not to lay all the blame in one place.

Alright my nightly ambien has begun to kick in, so I'll take my leave before I start doing something embarassing, like writing bad poetry.

I really enjoyed talked to everyone. Have a good week.