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(7Tool)   Germany is producing so much energy from its windmills that it risks creating a grid collapse   (7tool.biz) divider line 164
    More: Scary, Southern Germany, electrical grid, Siemens AG, deputy minister, coal plants, laws of physics, risks creating, wind farms  
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19569 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Oct 2012 at 5:47 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-28 04:42:19 PM
Well fortunately for us in the U.S, ours can be shut down when we don't' need them.
 
2012-10-28 04:50:20 PM
I wish we had that problem in the USA myself. We could deal with an energy surplus without fossil fuels, IMHO.
 
2012-10-28 05:07:16 PM
Put windmills on electric cars.
 
2012-10-28 05:10:12 PM

AirForceVet: I wish we had that problem in the USA myself. We could deal with an energy surplus without fossil fuels, IMHO.


I was thinking that it would be tougher in areas that depend on steam plants. I mean, you can't just turn a steam plant on and off easily. It still needs to maintain temperature even if it's not producing power if you want to be able to bring it back online quickly. Might be a little easier with hydro plants.
Point is, you need a quickly available backup to wind all the time

/what we need is a means of storage like the "batacitor" from the Riverworld series
 
2012-10-28 05:13:34 PM

jaylectricity: Put windmills on electric cars.


genious!
 
2012-10-28 05:50:07 PM
In before Morbo.
 
2012-10-28 05:55:17 PM

AirForceVet: I wish we had that problem in the USA myself. We could deal with an energy surplus without fossil fuels, IMHO.

 
2012-10-28 05:55:20 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: AirForceVet: I wish we had that problem in the USA myself. We could deal with an energy surplus without fossil fuels, IMHO.

I was thinking that it would be tougher in areas that depend on steam plants. I mean, you can't just turn a steam plant on and off easily. It still needs to maintain temperature even if it's not producing power if you want to be able to bring it back online quickly. Might be a little easier with hydro plants.
Point is, you need a quickly available backup to wind all the time

/what we need is a means of storage like the "batacitor" from the Riverworld series


Generally it's pumped water storage, where they take off-peak or surpluss juice and use it to pump water into some massive retaining pond/lake/etc. then drain it out again when it's needed.

Texas windmills get locked down during overproduction, such as a windstorm, which means they produce nothing during that time. The concept of wind power is good, but the technology supporting it just isn't in yet. And grids across the world are just aging rapidly, since no consumer wants to foot the bill for a lines maintenance company, and the infastructure investments are insane. High voltage lines cost millions per mile, and that's for the cheapest above ground tower solutions.
 
2012-10-28 05:55:49 PM
Do their windmills still look like swastikas?

/godwind
 
2012-10-28 05:55:59 PM
so use the excess electricity for bitcoin mining?? solution solved

and then use the bitcoins to buy MDMA and hold a mass party at 9:00 tonight and invite ME! and a ticket to germany
 
2012-10-28 05:56:01 PM
Why don't oil and coal companies just get into researching alternative energies? Seems like a no-brainer.
 
2012-10-28 05:56:02 PM

AirForceVet: I wish we had that problem in the USA myself. We could deal with an energy surplus without fossil fuels, IMHO.


If only we did:

FTFA: That's when they get flooded with energy, echoing struggles seen from China to Texas over accommodating the world's 200,000 windmills.

I haz sad we don't have that problem in this country. :(
 
2012-10-28 05:57:26 PM
TFA: Renewable energy around the world is causing problems because unlike oil it can't be stored...

Never heard of pumped storage? When you have a surplus you pump air or water into a reservoir, when you have high demand you release the stored medium through a turbine to retrieve the power. This isn't exactly new tech, either.
 
2012-10-28 05:57:40 PM

AirForceVet: I wish we had that problem in the USA myself. We could deal with an energy surplus without fossil fuels, IMHO.


We do in Oregon. When the spring run off fills the dams with capacity, they have to shut down the wind farms in eastern Oregon Naturally, those folks don't get paid when their fancy bird choppers are idle.
 
2012-10-28 05:58:36 PM

swamp_of_dumb: AirForceVet: I wish we had that problem in the USA myself. We could deal with an energy surplus without fossil fuels, IMHO.

If only we did:

FTFA: That's when they get flooded with energy, echoing struggles seen from China to Texas over accommodating the world's 200,000 windmills.

I haz sad we don't have that problem in this country. :(


We do in WA from time to time. It gets so bad our co-op can't sell excess electricity. WTF is wrong with the rest of you?
 
2012-10-28 05:59:50 PM
 
2012-10-28 06:00:56 PM
the world's 200,000 windmills

/must refer to the world's 200,000 big ass windmills - not including the old fashioned variety
//but it's a good problem to have - like too many threesomes with Natalie Portman and Halle Berry
 
2012-10-28 06:01:09 PM

Fish in a Barrel: TFA: Renewable energy around the world is causing problems because unlike oil it can't be stored...

Never heard of pumped storage? When you have a surplus you pump air or water into a reservoir, when you have high demand you release the stored medium through a turbine to retrieve the power. This isn't exactly new tech, either.


Sooo..use the wind turbine to pump water into reservoir. Use water to run hydro turbine. Seems like the long and expensive way around for hydro electric. Why not just build more dams?
 
2012-10-28 06:01:29 PM
The solution is easy:

imgs.xkcd.com
 
2012-10-28 06:02:09 PM
Pssh, Germany with it's strong manufacturing, economy, unions, educational and healthcare systems, and quality of life.

Can these losers do anything right?
 
2012-10-28 06:02:27 PM

sdd2000: Pumped water storage?


That is really cool. Such a simple concept to grasp and, I would imagine, quite effective.
 
2012-10-28 06:02:33 PM
You can pump water into a reservoir using the extra electricity, and then let the pumped water flow through a hydro generation plant when you need more electricity. The process only wastes around 25% of the energy originally put in, but can cost an awful lot to build if you don't have any natural reservoirs to work with.
 
2012-10-28 06:03:44 PM

mithras_angel: The solution is easy:

[imgs.xkcd.com image 487x427]


api.ning.com 

or just steal the power from flanders
 
2012-10-28 06:05:03 PM
img.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-28 06:05:23 PM

Spare Me: Fish in a Barrel: TFA: Renewable energy around the world is causing problems because unlike oil it can't be stored...

Never heard of pumped storage? When you have a surplus you pump air or water into a reservoir, when you have high demand you release the stored medium through a turbine to retrieve the power. This isn't exactly new tech, either.

Sooo..use the wind turbine to pump water into reservoir. Use water to run hydro turbine. Seems like the long and expensive way around for hydro electric. Why not just build more dams?


No. it's not a continuous process. You don't pump the water uphill and immediately let it fall through a turbine. That would be retarded. You're using the storage pond as a battery. You pump water into it only when you have a surplus of power. When you have a deficit, that's when you access the stored potential energy in the pumped water.
 
2012-10-28 06:06:19 PM

yo-de-yo-yo: Why don't oil and coal companies just get into researching alternative energies? Seems like a no-brainer.


Do you honestly, for a second, think that they're not? Trust me, those guys will be bringing you energy, regardless of the form, for your lifetime.
 
2012-10-28 06:06:23 PM

yo-de-yo-yo: Why don't oil and coal companies just get into researching alternative energies? Seems like a no-brainer.


Because their ideal of masculinity is to defeat their opposition, no matter how logical their competitors might be, might be, and their masculine self-image makes science look emasculated.
 
2012-10-28 06:07:32 PM
Germany is dumping electricity on its unwilling neighbors and by wintertime the feud should come to a head.

You know who else engaged in wintertime lightning warfare with Austria, Czechoslovakia and Poland?
 
2012-10-28 06:08:22 PM
As an engineer that works on the grid, specifically with the conversion of renewable energy, that article is the single biggest load of horseshiat I've read in a long time.... And I read a lot of horseshiat propaganda put out by big oil, and various other sources of verbal shiat-spew. That was goddamn obscene and insulting to its readers.

This is for any one of you that repeat this shiat: You are the reason the grid in this country sucks. You are the reason our infrastructure is crumbling. You buy up this propaganda and repeat it, which is exactly what a handful of very wealthy sociopaths want you to do. You are nothing more than a useful tool for very wealthy people who don't care how much suffering they bring to the masses. When this country finally collapses you and your children will most certainly be serfs, despite how much water you carried for the lords. They'll cast you aside when they're done with you. fark you.
 
2012-10-28 06:09:24 PM

organizmx: Pssh, Germany with it's strong manufacturing, economy, unions, educational and healthcare systems, and quality of life.

Can these losers do anything right?


Use apostrophes?
 
2012-10-28 06:09:37 PM
Also, pumped storage doesn't have to be about water. You can also pump air into caverns (natural or man-made). I imagine that's less efficient do to the ground cooling the stored air, though.
 
2012-10-28 06:11:49 PM
Build giant Tesla coils and start zapping European neighbors until they pay up. Problem solved, debt crisis averted.
 
2012-10-28 06:14:05 PM

Don't Troll Me Bro!: As an engineer that works on the grid, specifically with the conversion of renewable energy, that article is the single biggest load of horseshiat I've read in a long time.... And I read a lot of horseshiat propaganda put out by big oil, and various other sources of verbal shiat-spew. That was goddamn obscene and insulting to its readers.


Is your rant done?

Because it would be a lot more interesting to hear an electric grid engineer write about what should be done differently.
 
2012-10-28 06:14:05 PM
Just put a bank of batteries in each home to charge up and release as necessary.
 
2012-10-28 06:15:34 PM
Maybe they could just turn up their ovens.
 
2012-10-28 06:16:31 PM

AirForceVet: I wish we had that problem in the USA myself. We could deal with an energy surplus without fossil fuels, IMHO.


But... but... SOYLANDRA!!!!!!

Alternative energy can never work. Especially not in the 4th largest economy on Earth. Why, that's about as dumb as having them try socializm medicine!
 
2012-10-28 06:16:44 PM

Fish in a Barrel: TFA: Renewable energy around the world is causing problems because unlike oil it can't be stored...


Or molten sodium batteries or flywheels..... seems like there are lots of potential solutions.
 
2012-10-28 06:16:45 PM

Hebalo: yo-de-yo-yo: Why don't oil and coal companies just get into researching alternative energies? Seems like a no-brainer.
Do you honestly, for a second, think that they're not? Trust me, those guys will be bringing you energy, regardless of the form, for your lifetime.


I suppose it would be seen as an endorsement of alternative energy, and when they made us some more BP oil spills, they'd get a lot of shiat about not moving fast enough to get the other sources up and running. Since they've already invested trillions of dollars into fossil fuels, they have to keep stalling for as long as they can and whining about how other forms of energy just don't cut it--especially since they haven't had a hundred years and trillions of dollars poured into them.

I'm sure they have their greasy paws all over alternative energy research. Just in secret.
 
2012-10-28 06:18:10 PM

Don't Troll Me Bro!: As an engineer that works on the grid, specifically with the conversion of renewable energy, that article is the single biggest load of horseshiat I've read in a long time.... And I read a lot of horseshiat propaganda put out by big oil, and various other sources of verbal shiat-spew. That was goddamn obscene and insulting to its readers.

This is for any one of you that repeat this shiat: You are the reason the grid in this country sucks. You are the reason our infrastructure is crumbling. You buy up this propaganda and repeat it, which is exactly what a handful of very wealthy sociopaths want you to do. You are nothing more than a useful tool for very wealthy people who don't care how much suffering they bring to the masses. When this country finally collapses you and your children will most certainly be serfs, despite how much water you carried for the lords. They'll cast you aside when they're done with you. fark you.


Aww... sounds like someone has a poopy diaper. Here, have a cookie.

Or, maybe you could do something to help enlighten those of us who are less educated on this issue by actually pointing out some of the specific flaws in the article and then explaining what the truth of the situation is. That would be infinitely more useful and productive than spouting off platitudes about the proletariat and our rich overlords that make it sound like you're a spoiled hipster in a college Sociology 101 class.
 
2012-10-28 06:18:59 PM
Solution: When you have excess electricity, have a big-ass light show.

/Go ahead and make that joke. It's Germany. It works that way as well.
 
2012-10-28 06:19:08 PM

yo-de-yo-yo: Why don't oil and coal companies just get into researching alternative energies? Seems like a no-brainer.

 

imageshack.us
 
2012-10-28 06:19:54 PM

jaytkay: Don't Troll Me Bro!: As an engineer that works on the grid, specifically with the conversion of renewable energy, that article is the single biggest load of horseshiat I've read in a long time.... And I read a lot of horseshiat propaganda put out by big oil, and various other sources of verbal shiat-spew. That was goddamn obscene and insulting to its readers.

Is your rant done?

Because it would be a lot more interesting to hear an electric grid engineer write about what should be done differently.


i agree. But I do always get a kick from rants against "The Man"...
 
2012-10-28 06:24:58 PM
img338.imageshack.us

Just buy every woman in Europe one of these. Solve multiple problems all at once.

/ you're welcome
 
2012-10-28 06:29:43 PM

BeerGraduate: Do their windmills still look like swastikas?

/godwind


That was bad, and you should feel bad.
 
2012-10-28 06:32:34 PM

Fish in a Barrel: TFA: Renewable energy around the world is causing problems because unlike oil it can't be stored...

Never heard of pumped storage? When you have a surplus you pump air or water into a reservoir, when you have high demand you release the stored medium through a turbine to retrieve the power. This isn't exactly new tech, either.

 
2012-10-28 06:33:31 PM
The windmills are also keeping the temperature cool enough for African turtles.
 
2012-10-28 06:34:23 PM
Put in large electric to gas plants and your problem is solved.
 
2012-10-28 06:34:29 PM
Turn it into gasoline!


Arthur Jumbles: Or molten sodium batteries or flywheels..... seems like there are lots of potential solutions.


Flywheels are pretty sh*tty for energy storage. What they're good for is power density (high charge/discharge rates and reaction times), but not energy density. Pumped hydro, compressed air, or even hydrogen storage are all much better ideas.

Dr. Sadoway has been hyping his Mg-Sb liquid metal batteries for quite some time as a cheap and robust energy storage system. Hope it pans out, even if 90% of the world's antimony comes from China...
=Smidge=
 
2012-10-28 06:35:13 PM

Gyrfalcon: BeerGraduate: Do their windmills still look like swastikas?

/godwind

That was bad, and you should feel bad.


That was funny, and he should be proud!
 
2012-10-28 06:36:38 PM

bigskank: Don't Troll Me Bro!: As an engineer that works on the grid, specifically with the conversion of renewable energy, that article is the single biggest load of horseshiat I've read in a long time.... And I read a lot of horseshiat propaganda put out by big oil, and various other sources of verbal shiat-spew. That was goddamn obscene and insulting to its readers.

This is for any one of you that repeat this shiat: You are the reason the grid in this country sucks. You are the reason our infrastructure is crumbling. You buy up this propaganda and repeat it, which is exactly what a handful of very wealthy sociopaths want you to do. You are nothing more than a useful tool for very wealthy people who don't care how much suffering they bring to the masses. When this country finally collapses you and your children will most certainly be serfs, despite how much water you carried for the lords. They'll cast you aside when they're done with you. fark you.

Aww... sounds like someone has a poopy diaper. Here, have a cookie.

Or, maybe you could do something to help enlighten those of us who are less educated on this issue by actually pointing out some of the specific flaws in the article and then explaining what the truth of the situation is. That would be infinitely more useful and productive than spouting off platitudes about the proletariat and our rich overlords that make it sound like you're a spoiled hipster in a college Sociology 101 class.


Poopy diaper! Have a cookie! Hipster! Sociology 101!

Way to put these kids in their place with that sick burn.
 
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