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(Telegraph)   Want to work for Williams F1? Then try this simple maths test. Difficulty: No calculators   (telegraph.co.uk) divider line 138
    More: Interesting, Williams F1, square roots, Olds College, complex question, decimals, failure rate, practical tests, logs  
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10962 clicks; posted to Geek » on 28 Oct 2012 at 6:35 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-29 12:31:23 AM  

StopLurkListen: So, if one can just do basic math one can get a job with McLaren?

In THIS country, students get in over their head in debt for a good four-year college degree, and *might* be lucky enough to get a callback *someday* from a company which may or may not be related to one's field of education, but most likely will be unemployed & living at home with parents?

WHAT. 

[i548.photobucket.com image 506x700]
Angry chipmunk!


STOP READING MY DIARY.
 
2012-10-29 01:45:16 AM  
Got everything but the logs, which I've never encountered before. What did they say, better than half is passing?

So when do I start? I can even put up with people saying "maths" instead of "math." Because I'm as diverse as a Civil War era warship.
 
2012-10-29 01:55:39 AM  

Abner Doon: The log stuff is pretty easy. Just remember log (a*b) = log a + log b and log(a/b) = log a - log b

So the first one, log 40 is cake because thats log (4*10) = log 4 (which is given) + log 10. Since it's log base 10, log 10 = 1.

The second one is cuter, log (.12) = log(12/100) = log 12 - log 100 = log (3*4) - log 100 = log 3 + log 4 - log 100.

The rest is just simple arithmatic to get the actual numbers.


Daaaarg! The last one caught me out because I calculated log 0.3 plus log 0.4 by simply making the log 3 and log 4 values negative.

Logsdontworkthatway.jpg

Used to teach this stuff, but mostly got it wrong cuz I got cocky.
 
2012-10-29 02:01:53 AM  

russlar: as a follower of F1, the problems at williams are much bigger than maths.


Actually, the inability of their employees to complete this test might explain their standings.

They should have Maldonado take it.

"what is five times five?" -- MALDONADO CRASH!!

/like hulk smash, but instead of smash, crash, cuz it's maldonado.
 
2012-10-29 02:15:49 AM  
I thought the math test would be something crazy and I'd end up thinking, "Holy cow, people can do this without a calculator?"
I'm legit surprised that this is their barrier for entry.
 
2012-10-29 02:18:42 AM  
Just six young people passed, with 10 failing to get more than half the answers right - a failure rate of two-thirds.

10/16 = 2/3?
 
2012-10-29 02:30:39 AM  
Am I the only one who finds the word 'maths' grating, feeling that there shouldn't be an 's' there?
 
2012-10-29 02:53:05 AM  
Question 9: What is 11pc of 250 = ?

img.ffffound.com
 
2012-10-29 03:05:13 AM  
I am a mathematical illiterate (it is something tied to the ADHD) the amusing thing is on IQ tests I come out as a mathematical genius, but I am incapable of remembering the processes for any length of time. So any time I want to do anything mathematical I need to look up the rule/process for the work I want to do and I can then do it (until I stop, then I need to look it up again).
I didn't do maths for my final years of school (got an advanced B in my year 10 leaving certificate and figured that was all the maths I was going to usefully use in life) but since then I have done some uni accounting (as part of a MBA) and found that nothing has changed, maths is easy apart from the remembering, which is hard. Oh and I also can't hold a number in my head, I forget my own street number with monotonous regularity, which makes mental arithmetic annoying as hell. Still, like the constipated accountant, I can always work it out with paper and a pencil.

That said, I know I am not the person the Williams team is looking for. That person would be my 11 year old son. Precocious little git just 'knows' how maths should be, he was riding in the car some years ago with his oldest sister and her friends, they were discussing some equation to do with multiplying negatives with positives. They were middle school (14) and he was 9 at the time, he looked at them puzzled and shouted out the answer. Quick look at the back of the book confirmed he was right and the girls had a fun trip shouting equations at him and trying to work out how he kept getting them right (I doubt he could have explained how he knew, he just did).

Yeah yeah CSB and TL;DR
 
2012-10-29 05:44:00 AM  

NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!: On the downside, though, I've noticed that most college graduates can't string together a proper sentence.


I blame Yoda.
 
2012-10-29 06:23:50 AM  
Got them all apart from the log ones
 
2012-10-29 06:41:01 AM  

Foxxinnia: I thought the math test would be something crazy and I'd end up thinking, "Holy cow, people can do this without a calculator?"


Heh, that's exactly what I was thinking also. Was expecting an interesting challenge, or perhaps even personal chagrin. Then clicked and saw "2 + 3 = ?". Seriously?
 
2012-10-29 07:26:02 AM  
Considering that F1 racing is fixed, they should look for recruits from the WWE & TNA wrestling.
 
2012-10-29 08:35:16 AM  
My sixth grader can do all of those. That cannot seriously be the test, is it? Are we that farked?
 
2012-10-29 09:11:10 AM  
I find this disturbingly funny. Back home, students are not allowed to use calculators until college. So yeah.. I am getting a kick out of it
 
2012-10-29 09:44:34 AM  

Quantumbunny:
Also, being generic as writing things like write .3 as a fraction... 3/10 is not the only valid answer. They really need to be specific like writing it as lowest termed fraction or similar.


It isn't the only answer, true. There are infinite answers numerically. However, if you know your decimal places (tenths, hundreds, thousandths) then 3/10 is the only answer. Plus, the rules of mathematics explicitly state that a fraction is only correct when it cannot be reduced further than integer values. Thus, 30/100 is not correct. Same numeric value, but the fraction isn't fully reduced.
 
2012-10-29 10:22:59 AM  
debbie_does_dishes
Plus, the rules of mathematics explicitly state

The what?


a fraction is only correct when it cannot be reduced further than integer values.


That sounds more like "you only get full points if.." and not something mathematical, i.e. someone grading a test might require fractions to be reduced, but that doesn't make 0.3=30/100 less correct.
 
2012-10-29 10:56:04 AM  

Abner Doon: So the first one, log 40 is cake because thats log (4*10) = log 4 (which is given) + log 10. Since it's log base 10, log 10 = 1.


That one initially stumped me because I over-thought it. I didn't assume the base was known.
 
2012-10-29 11:07:50 AM  

Ambitwistor: Abner Doon: So the first one, log 40 is cake because thats log (4*10) = log 4 (which is given) + log 10. Since it's log base 10, log 10 = 1.

That one initially stumped me because I over-thought it. I didn't assume the base was known.


I assumed base 2 for a few seconds and was kinda confused why none of the numbers would work out. Then I remembered it's not Comp Sci.
 
2012-10-29 11:28:37 AM  

Dimensio: Mayhem of the Black Underclass: FTFA:Williams F1 struggling to find recruits with maths skills

Maybe they should find someone who understands the Englishs to write the test?

/i know i know, but it sounds so wrong.

Are you unaware that "maths" is an acronym.


I thought everyone knew that...
 
2012-10-29 02:29:28 PM  
For better or worse - for most people, even smart engineer types, they no longer need to manually crunch numbers. The result is, most are familiar with mathematical concepts but are very rusty in actual practice.

This isn't a 'bad' thing, it just reflects a change in the way people operate.

I can truthfully say I would have done better in 8th grade taking this test than I would do now.
 
2012-10-29 02:46:58 PM  
Sixth graders may have knowledge, but not wisdom. If you employ them as engineers they will make a device and blow up your business.
 
2012-10-29 05:03:23 PM  
I thought #7 was the square root of 7 - without a calculator. I thought, "That's more like it! Time to break out Newton's method," and spent 10 minutes to get 2.64 before I reread the question. :-/ 

Probably should have just used the Taylor series in powers of (x-9).

/used to know the "long division"y way, but I forgot it
 
2012-10-29 06:41:29 PM  

Dear Jerk: Sixth graders may have knowledge, but not wisdom. If you employ them as engineers they will make a device and blow up your business.


No, they'll just design a car that goes 0-100 in 8.5 seconds, stops (safely) on a dime the instant it hits 100mph, then makes fart noises and giggles.

/might also have to play with all the controls to find the right combination that opens the door again
 
2012-10-29 09:01:39 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: God, I feel like an idiot - I got all of them except the ones that called for 11pc and 12.5pc. Can't for the life of me remember what that pc means.


Percent. I got all but the log questions. Never learned logs. :(
 
2012-10-29 09:23:27 PM  

The Flexecutioner: i can do all of them except the square root of 7 and the logs without a calculator.


It didn't ask for the square *root* of 7; that's actually quite challenging. It only asked for the *square*, which is 49.
 
2012-10-29 09:27:33 PM  

Bisu: Am I the only one that doesn't use math enough to do this quickly (had to write out the long division, multiplication, and 2nd log one), or did people miss the part where you have 2 minutes to complete 15 questions?  I would have needed at least 2:30 to do it the first time.


It's uncertain from the way TFA is written, but I believe there's more than one test, and that part referred to a different one than the one shown: " One of the adding up and subtracting tests is "pretty straightforward", according to the chief executive, although candidates only have two minutes to complete it." It sounds like it refers to a different test that's only addition and subtraction; if that's true, and that test is similar in length to this one, then I'd think two minutes should be sufficient, at least for their purposes. They want their people to be quick at math, not merely able to do it.
 
2012-10-29 09:29:05 PM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: Were you guys able to do the division without aid?
i feel kinda dumb now =(


I had to do that one longhand, I admit.
 
2012-10-29 09:38:07 PM  

aelat: Just six young people passed, with 10 failing to get more than half the answers right - a failure rate of two-thirds.

10/16 = 2/3?


Uhm, I'm gonna go with "yes. yes it does"

/ok, 10.6/16 = 2/3
 
2012-10-29 09:42:13 PM  

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: The Flexecutioner: i can do all of them except the square root of 7 and the logs without a calculator.

It didn't ask for the square *root* of 7; that's actually quite challenging. It only asked for the *square*, which is 49.


In the US it's written (in my experience) "7 squared".

Took me a second to figure what they wanted
 
2012-10-29 09:45:19 PM  

The Voice of Doom: debbie_does_dishes
Plus, the rules of mathematics explicitly state

The what?


a fraction is only correct when it cannot be reduced further than integer values.


That sounds more like "you only get full points if.." and not something mathematical, i.e. someone grading a test might require fractions to be reduced, but that doesn't make 0.3=30/100 less correct.


No, it's more like, when they say they want "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth," they're not going to accept this: "Boy that's a toughie I wish I'd thought of eating before this cuz now I'm hungry you know what's really great those Italian subs from Wawa there are no Wawas near me anymore haven't been for years but I still thinkg about those Italian subs and whenever I go south I try to grab one there's a really great Wawa on the way to Richmond if you go through Delmarva what's that oh it's a made-up name for the peninusula on the east side of Chesapeake Bay anyway if you come that way there's a long bridge across and on the west side of that bridge is a huge Wawa and they've got those awesome Italian subs and they're nicer than the Subways where I am yeah I have a friend in Richmond two actually and I'll try to go to D.C. too cuz I know people there know what's also really good Fuddrucker's don't laugh the food is awesome try the ostrich yeah really but man so filling there's only three Dunkin Donuts near Richmond can you believe that there's 55 in Providence ha ha man I really wish I'd eaten before this...."

What they're looking for is something more like, "I was speeding."

Reducing the fraction isn't a law like they're going to break your fingers, but it's a very regular rule and they do expect it. If you don't, they may think you're either ignorant or a smartass. And if you're applying for a job, you don't want to be seen that way. You can argue the academics later with your friends.
 
2012-10-29 09:52:20 PM  

GRCooper: Sylvia_Bandersnatch: The Flexecutioner: i can do all of them except the square root of 7 and the logs without a calculator.

It didn't ask for the square *root* of 7; that's actually quite challenging. It only asked for the *square*, which is 49.

In the US it's written (in my experience) "7 squared".

Took me a second to figure what they wanted


I misread that and the one below it on the first pass, too, but quickly realised that a quiz asking for "2 + 3" isn't likely to have complex square and root questions like that.
 
2012-10-29 11:06:50 PM  
Abner Doon
Ambitwistor: Abner Doon: So the first one, log 40 is cake because thats log (4*10) = log 4 (which is given) + log 10. Since it's log base 10, log 10 = 1.

That one initially stumped me because I over-thought it. I didn't assume the base was known.

I assumed base 2 for a few seconds and was kinda confused why none of the numbers would work out. Then I remembered it's not Comp Sci.


Yeah, I had to check the base, too, because I learned that you use "lg" if you leave out the base and use 10 - like leaving out the base and using "ln" if your base is e.


Sylvia_Bandersnatch
Reducing the fraction isn't a law like they're going to break your fingers, but it's a very regular rule and they do expect it. If you don't, they may think you're either ignorant or a smartass. And if you're applying for a job, you don't want to be seen that way. You can argue the academics later with your friends.


I agree that this is the case and that anything else but writing 3/10 would be obfuscation and look stupid.
As I said, it's a case of "you only get full points if..".

But this still doesn't mean that not reducing a fraction violates some "explicit law of math".
Depending on the problem you have to solve, not reducing some fractions can even have advantages.
 
2012-10-29 11:31:23 PM  

The Voice of Doom: Reducing the fraction isn't a law like they're going to break your fingers, but it's a very regular rule and they do expect it. If you don't, they may think you're either ignorant or a smartass. And if you're applying for a job, you don't want to be seen that way. You can argue the academics later with your friends.

I agree that this is the case and that anything else but writing 3/10 would be obfuscation and look stupid.
As I said, it's a case of "you only get full points if..".

But this still doesn't mean that not reducing a fraction violates some "explicit law of math".
Depending on the problem you have to solve, not reducing some fractions can even have advantages.


Yeah, I said that. And the other thing, too. You seriously just don't like this, that's all. Let it go. Do you talk to prospective employers this way? I had a boss once draw a circle, square, and triangle -- then ask me, "Which are you?" Know what I said? "Circle." Know what I didn't say? "This is farking stupid, what's wrong with you?" The guy was a total pinhead. But he paid real money. This quiz is for job applicants, not pendants looking for an argument.
 
Skr
2012-10-30 08:51:32 AM  
Always been decent at math, did well on the test, only thing I ever really HATED in math was Matrices. Was a great primer for Sudoku thinking though.


"Maths" bothers me a bit. I know it is proper but still, sounds like I'm making fun of someone with a lisp when I say it.
 
2012-10-30 10:55:25 AM  
Hurr, I said "pendants". I'm an arse. Urgh.
 
2012-10-30 05:49:49 PM  

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: This quiz is for job applicants, not pendants looking for an argument.


Unless it's a job to be a lawyer. LOL
 
2012-10-30 05:57:32 PM  

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: Hurr, I said "pendants". I'm an arse. Urgh.


What somebody performing a job as a pendant might look like.

santarchy.com
 
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