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(Telegraph)   Want to work for Williams F1? Then try this simple maths test. Difficulty: No calculators   (telegraph.co.uk) divider line 138
    More: Interesting, Williams F1, square roots, Olds College, complex question, decimals, failure rate, practical tests, logs  
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10962 clicks; posted to Geek » on 28 Oct 2012 at 6:35 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-28 01:08:00 PM
I am speechless.
 
2012-10-28 01:17:27 PM
God, I feel like an idiot - I got all of them except the ones that called for 11pc and 12.5pc. Can't for the life of me remember what that pc means.
 
2012-10-28 01:22:38 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: God, I feel like an idiot - I got all of them except the ones that called for 11pc and 12.5pc. Can't for the life of me remember what that pc means.


... seriously?

Percent.
 
2012-10-28 01:40:20 PM
I couldn't do the logs because I haven't used them in over 36 years, I just don't remember how to use them. All the others are simple head math for me.
 
2012-10-28 01:40:48 PM

kmmontandon: Benevolent Misanthrope: God, I feel like an idiot - I got all of them except the ones that called for 11pc and 12.5pc. Can't for the life of me remember what that pc means.

... seriously?

Percent.


Seriously. It never occurred to me. I can do calculus in my head but can't read a basic arithmetic problem.

Yeah, I know, I suck.
 
2012-10-28 01:52:43 PM
The logs messed with me but that's because it's been almost 30 years since I had to do any of that.
 
2012-10-28 01:58:06 PM
Ditto Tarkus on the logs questions. The rest were painfully simple.
 
2012-10-28 01:58:36 PM
I got 100%

It's all thanks to mandated government schooling here in the US. If the government hadn't forcibly taken money from my neighbors and used that forcibly taken money to build schools and give it to unionized teachers and forced me to go to school, I never would have learned this stuff. Thank god the government was looking out for me.
 
2012-10-28 02:06:10 PM

oldernell: I am speechless.


I dropped out of high-school at the beginning of my 11th grade year, and I had no problems with this test.
 
2012-10-28 02:46:48 PM
maths is maths
 
2012-10-28 05:18:39 PM
Wow, kids today don't break down problems in a way that would be useful to calculate using a slide rule and fractions?
 
2012-10-28 06:39:45 PM
Same as others, I got everything but the logs. Most of it was done in my head, a few were written out on scrap paper.
 
2012-10-28 06:40:54 PM
FTFA:Williams F1 struggling to find recruits with maths skills

Maybe they should find someone who understands the Englishs to write the test?

/i know i know, but it sounds so wrong.
 
2012-10-28 06:45:43 PM
Did anyone say 42 yet?

How about "I was told there would be no math"

Just want to make sure this is a Fark thread is all....
 
2012-10-28 06:45:48 PM

Tarkus: I couldn't do the logs because I haven't used them in over 36 years, I just don't remember how to use them. All the others are simple head math for me.


I couldn't do the logs becausee, well, I've NEVER done logs. Yeah, everything was head math. WTF?

On the downside, though, I've noticed that most college graduates can't string together a proper sentence.
 
2012-10-28 06:47:26 PM

Mayhem of the Black Underclass: FTFA:Williams F1 struggling to find recruits with maths skills

Maybe they should find someone who understands the Englishs to write the test?

/i know i know, but it sounds so wrong.


Are you unaware that "maths" is an acronym.
 
2012-10-28 06:48:35 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: kmmontandon: Benevolent Misanthrope: God, I feel like an idiot - I got all of them except the ones that called for 11pc and 12.5pc. Can't for the life of me remember what that pc means.

... seriously?

Percent.

Seriously. It never occurred to me. I can do calculus in my head but can't read a basic arithmetic problem.

Yeah, I know, I suck.


I can't recall ever seeing pc instead of %. Have I just not been paying attention my whole life, or is that some British convention?
 
2012-10-28 06:55:58 PM

xelnia: Benevolent Misanthrope: kmmontandon: Benevolent Misanthrope: God, I feel like an idiot - I got all of them except the ones that called for 11pc and 12.5pc. Can't for the life of me remember what that pc means.

... seriously?

Percent.

Seriously. It never occurred to me. I can do calculus in my head but can't read a basic arithmetic problem.

Yeah, I know, I suck.

I can't recall ever seeing pc instead of %. Have I just not been paying attention my whole life, or is that some British convention?


I would imagine the company want people who just get the job done, even if it is not obvious what the job is.
 
2012-10-28 07:00:26 PM
Aced it. But I probably wouldn't have as a teenager. The only reason I can do it in my head now is that I wouldn't be able to make a living if I couldn't.
 
2012-10-28 07:00:53 PM
I'll be honest, missed the log questions cause it's been too long. With a calculator, and maybe enough time and lack of apathy would have done those too.

For those who haven't seen pc before... you couldn't guess that meant %?

Also, being generic as writing things like write .3 as a fraction... 3/10 is not the only valid answer. They really need to be specific like writing it as lowest termed fraction or similar.
 
2012-10-28 07:01:57 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: God, I feel like an idiot - I got all of them except the ones that called for 11pc and 12.5pc. Can't for the life of me remember what that pc means.


pence. So..
0.1771 and 0.2012 USD

/Am I doing it right?
 
2012-10-28 07:02:12 PM
Include me in the "forgot how log arithmetic works" group.
 
2012-10-28 07:04:57 PM

Quantumbunny: I'll be honest, missed the log questions cause it's been too long. With a calculator, and maybe enough time and lack of apathy would have done those too.

For those who haven't seen pc before... you couldn't guess that meant %?

Also, being generic as writing things like write .3 as a fraction... 3/10 is not the only valid answer. They really need to be specific like writing it as lowest termed fraction or similar.


Yeah. But would you really want to hire an engineer that answered 9/30 even if technically correct?
 
2012-10-28 07:08:54 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: kmmontandon: Benevolent Misanthrope: God, I feel like an idiot - I got all of them except the ones that called for 11pc and 12.5pc. Can't for the life of me remember what that pc means.

... seriously?

Percent.

Seriously. It never occurred to me. I can do calculus in my head but can't read a basic arithmetic problem.

Yeah, I know, I suck.


I've never seen that convention either. I figured it out quickly enough, but for a split second I was wondering WTF a parsec was doing in a basic math test.
 
2012-10-28 07:10:23 PM
I have a degree in physics and I couldn't remember the log rules. It's simply been too long. And I will agree with everybody who complained about the "pc" questions. That's got to be a British thing. If they would have said % they would have been obvious answers.
 
2012-10-28 07:16:24 PM

xelnia: Have I just not been paying attention my whole life, or is that some British convention?


If the answer to one of those is yes is does not preclude the answer to the other being yes.
 
2012-10-28 07:20:54 PM
The log stuff is pretty easy. Just remember log (a*b) = log a + log b and log(a/b) = log a - log b

So the first one, log 40 is cake because thats log (4*10) = log 4 (which is given) + log 10. Since it's log base 10, log 10 = 1.

The second one is cuter, log (.12) = log(12/100) = log 12 - log 100 = log (3*4) - log 100 = log 3 + log 4 - log 100.

The rest is just simple arithmatic to get the actual numbers.
 
2012-10-28 07:22:20 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: kmmontandon: Benevolent Misanthrope: God, I feel like an idiot - I got all of them except the ones that called for 11pc and 12.5pc. Can't for the life of me remember what that pc means.

... seriously?

Percent.

Seriously. It never occurred to me. I can do calculus in my head but can't read a basic arithmetic problem.

Yeah, I know, I suck.


Meh, it's a British abbreviation. Unless you are actually British, in which case you should have known better. But along those lines, that wasn't hard except for the logarithms (although I could make pretty reasonable guesses but forget the actual formulas). Anyway, it would have been a little bit easier if that had been in American notation, i.e. asking for 7 squared rather than the square of 7, etc.
 
2012-10-28 07:27:21 PM
Like everyone else, incredibly simple except for the logs, which I haven't seen in 20+ yrs. I have to wonder why they would care about logs.
 
2012-10-28 07:34:01 PM

ChubbyTiger: Like everyone else, incredibly simple except for the logs, which I haven't seen in 20+ yrs. I have to wonder why they would care about logs.


Maybe to check if you can actually think on your feet. It's not like it's terribly hard working out the answers to those even if you don't remember exactly the rules.

You can either work backwards from the definition of logs (opposite of exponents), or if you kinda sorta remember, you could definitely check a few examples and make sure it's right and then go from there.
 
2012-10-28 07:35:27 PM

Loki009: Quantumbunny: I'll be honest, missed the log questions cause it's been too long. With a calculator, and maybe enough time and lack of apathy would have done those too.

For those who haven't seen pc before... you couldn't guess that meant %?

Also, being generic as writing things like write .3 as a fraction... 3/10 is not the only valid answer. They really need to be specific like writing it as lowest termed fraction or similar.

Yeah. But would you really want to hire an engineer that answered 9/30 even if technically correct?


You're always supposed to reduce to lowest denominator anyway.
 
2012-10-28 07:35:33 PM
Got all but the log questions.

/haven't used log tables in years.
 
2012-10-28 07:38:03 PM
The only way I remember how to work logs quickly is a variation of this: Link
 
2012-10-28 07:38:20 PM

Loki009: Quantumbunny: I'll be honest, missed the log questions cause it's been too long. With a calculator, and maybe enough time and lack of apathy would have done those too.

For those who haven't seen pc before... you couldn't guess that meant %?

Also, being generic as writing things like write .3 as a fraction... 3/10 is not the only valid answer. They really need to be specific like writing it as lowest termed fraction or similar.

Yeah. But would you really want to hire an engineer that answered 9/30 even if technically correct?


Depends. I like my coworkers and employees snarky and sarcastic. So, if they did everything else right and seemed smart enough, I would, indeed.
 
2012-10-28 07:38:27 PM

ChubbyTiger: Like everyone else, incredibly simple except for the logs, which I haven't seen in 20+ yrs. I have to wonder why they would care about logs.


As DON.MAC implied, that's a fundamental part of using a slide rule. The fact that they included them in a test of elementary mathematical literacy certainly suggests something about their perspective.

/Now that the maths section is over, it's time for the practical exam. You'll find a deer antler and a piece of flint under your desks; you have twenty minutes to make a spear head.
 
2012-10-28 07:39:03 PM
My Mom's a retired junior high math teacher. She liked to teach the 'tricks' that make a lot of these easy:

11% of 250 is easy if you separate 11% into 1%+10%, or 2.5+25=27.5

She also taught math games you can do in your head:

Take any non-repeating number (like 222) and subtract the reverse. Ask the person with the calculator for the number in the 1's place OR the 100's place. The answer will always be that the 1's place pluse the 100's place will equal 9. The 10's place will always be 9:

854-458=396
3+6=9
There is a 9 in the 10's place.

Fun!
 
2012-10-28 07:40:15 PM

Abner Doon: The log stuff is pretty easy.


I did the log ones by remembering log a=b can be converted to a=10^b. Then it's just manipulating exponents. For the first one, a=10^b becomes 10a=10^b*10=10^(b+1). For the second, it was a*c*10^-2=10^b*10^d*10^-2, so the answer was b+d-2.

I screwed up problem 10. Bah, I should have checked my work.

One day in eighth grade I loaned my calculator to my brother, only to find out we had a class-wide math test that day. I had the best score, doing everything by hand. Long division, multiplication, all by hand on paper.

/CSB
//I've probably used some logarithms at work since college
///power company engineer
////a rare one that does some real math on rare occasions
 
2012-10-28 07:40:45 PM
was taugh freakin cube root in grade 5. ..never mind lowly square. My kids are taught square root means using a calculator
 
2012-10-28 07:41:17 PM
*Three digit non-repeating number...
 
2012-10-28 07:47:03 PM

kvinesknows: was taugh freakin cube root in grade 5. ..never mind lowly square. My kids are taught square root means using a calculator


I was never taught how to do square roots properly by hand either. I could figure it out to an arbitrary precision with an iterative method, but I'd have to REALLY want to know what the root is and not have a calculator around to do it.

I have the perfect squares memorized up to 252 (or I used to.) But beyond that, I'm going for a calculator.
 
2012-10-28 07:50:05 PM
You dedicate your life to math, only to have some rich boy ram your elegant solution to complex equations into a wall.
 
2012-10-28 07:57:35 PM

xelnia: Benevolent Misanthrope: kmmontandon: Benevolent Misanthrope: God, I feel like an idiot - I got all of them except the ones that called for 11pc and 12.5pc. Can't for the life of me remember what that pc means.

... seriously?

Percent.

Seriously. It never occurred to me. I can do calculus in my head but can't read a basic arithmetic problem.

Yeah, I know, I suck.

I can't recall ever seeing pc instead of %. Have I just not been paying attention my whole life, or is that some British convention?


It must not be used in the civilized world. I have never seen it used that way. Ever. Not in a text book, in class, or on TV.
 
kab
2012-10-28 07:57:54 PM
So in other words, Williams doesn't pay very well.
 
2012-10-28 07:58:13 PM

ChubbyTiger: Like everyone else, incredibly simple except for the logs, which I haven't seen in 20+ yrs. I have to wonder why they would care about logs.


One day my log will have something to say about this.
 
2012-10-28 08:00:27 PM
So, if one can just do basic math one can get a job with McLaren?

In THIS country, students get in over their head in debt for a good four-year college degree, and *might* be lucky enough to get a callback *someday* from a company which may or may not be related to one's field of education, but most likely will be unemployed & living at home with parents?

WHAT. 

i548.photobucket.com
Angry chipmunk!
 
2012-10-28 08:18:44 PM
It's farking arithmetic. I was expecting to see differential geometry or vector calculus.
 
2012-10-28 08:20:12 PM
I can get them all, but no way in two minutes. It took me a couple minutes to figure out the logs and that was the time to realize that I knew something besides log 3 and log 4 -- I knew log 10. After that it was trivial. (Give me a break, its been years since I actually had used them and other than a little bit in high school I have never used them for their original calculation purpose.)

The doing stuff in the head bit might be expecting much. Lets face it, with calculators most everyone gets rusty once they leave grade school.
 
2012-10-28 08:20:23 PM
Number 5 is a fargin trick question, those iceholes!
 
2012-10-28 08:21:42 PM
Do these logs roll down stairs alone, or in pairs? How the hell are you supposed to figure it out with pertinent info missing?
 
2012-10-28 08:22:11 PM
Also, being generic as writing things like write .3 as a fraction... 3/10 is not the only valid answer.

Given everyone on Top Gear says "point three of a second" instead of "three tenths", it's not surprising the brits don't get this one.

/also, they don't know what "brake horsepower" means
 
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