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(ESPN)   Oklahoma City trades James Harden for a pile of shiat and doesn't even manage to unload Kendrick Perkins' contract in the process. Tag is for the Heat's upcoming walkover in the next three NBA finals, only because Fark has no "Angry" tag   (espn.go.com) divider line 90
    More: Sad, Kendrick Perkins, James Harden, NBA Finals, Oklahoma City, NBA, John Hollinger, Miami Heat, Chris Broussard  
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939 clicks; posted to Sports » on 28 Oct 2012 at 9:31 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-27 11:21:51 PM
Its as if subs has never heard of the Lakers.
 
2012-10-27 11:35:05 PM
OKC got two first round picks and Houston's first pick this year, Jeremy Lamb.
 
2012-10-27 11:35:45 PM
By the way, one of the picks they got is Toronto's. That is a lottery pick.
 
2012-10-27 11:35:45 PM
SilentStrider

Oh, I've heard of the Lakers. This new-look Lakers team reminds me of the Eagles right when they were calling themselves the Dream Team, and we all saw how laughably inaccurate that was. Howard is not good on offense and has a bad back, Kobe and Nash are ancient, and Gasol has been unreliable in the past. An injury to any of their key players kills them. Lose Nash, and it's back to the days of Fisher's alleged ball movement. Lose Kobe... actually, that wouldn't be the end of the world. Lose Dwight, and you're soft inside defensively. Lose Gasol, and your offense becomes long jumpers and Howard's incredibly awkward attempted hook shots. Even if all four of them stay healthy, their bench is thin enough to read a newspaper through. The Lakers aren't winning the title with this core... feel free to rub this post in my face if I'm wrong, but I'm not too worried about that happening.
 
2012-10-27 11:52:58 PM

Palmer Eldritch: SilentStrider

Oh, I've heard of the Lakers. This new-look Lakers team reminds me of the Eagles right when they were calling themselves the Dream Team, and we all saw how laughably inaccurate that was. Howard is not good on offense and has a bad back, Kobe and Nash are ancient, and Gasol has been unreliable in the past. An injury to any of their key players kills them. Lose Nash, and it's back to the days of Fisher's alleged ball movement. Lose Kobe... actually, that wouldn't be the end of the world. Lose Dwight, and you're soft inside defensively. Lose Gasol, and your offense becomes long jumpers and Howard's incredibly awkward attempted hook shots. Even if all four of them stay healthy, their bench is thin enough to read a newspaper through. The Lakers aren't winning the title with this core... feel free to rub this post in my face if I'm wrong, but I'm not too worried about that happening.


We won't have to. Relax.
 
2012-10-27 11:59:28 PM
horrible trade.

horrible.

HORRIBLE.

HORRIBLE
 
2012-10-28 12:00:20 AM

JerseyTim: OKC got two first round picks and Houston's first pick this year, Jeremy Lamb.


Yeah, but why go cheap and "build to the future" when you could battle the Heat again in the finals.
 
2012-10-28 12:02:47 AM

TheManofPA: JerseyTim: OKC got two first round picks and Houston's first pick this year, Jeremy Lamb.

Yeah, but why go cheap and "build to the future" when you could battle the Heat again in the finals.


The reason is that it wasnt gonna work out with Harden - in other words, it was about money. I just think it was a dumb decision considering they had a very good shot at winning it all last year and Durant will most likely be even better next year.
 
2012-10-28 12:27:51 AM
So the thunder got an actual 2 guard and picks for a combo guard who would walk next year over $2 million per year on a $13 mil per year deal? Too bad they didn't keep that guy around.
 
2012-10-28 12:40:14 AM
Oh I was way off. They offered 55.5 for four and he demanded 60. That's a hair over a million per year that was the reason harden isn't part of the trio going forward. But he's got that extra 1.15 mill per, so he's got that going for him.
 
2012-10-28 05:11:30 AM
This isn't necessarily a bad move for OKC. They still have two superstars that are still maturing, and now they have some cap flexibility to add more complementary pieces in the future. (Lamb is pretty good, they get a good draft pick from Toronto, but Kevin Martin's a little biatch)

To those that don't agree, look at the last two Finals. If you build your team to be too reliant on superstars, then all it takes is one of those guys to be off of his game for you to lose. (LeBron in 2011, Harden in 2012)
 
2012-10-28 06:23:04 AM

phervor: Oh I was way off. They offered 55.5 for four and he demanded 60. That's a hair over a million per year that was the reason harden isn't part of the trio going forward. But he's got that extra 1.15 mill per, so he's got that going for him.


That's why this is a great move for OKC and for Harden. A 6th man is not worth 15 mil a year, especially if it's a team that wants to compete
 
2012-10-28 09:27:11 AM
"I hope you guys threw in a washer"

content.internetvideoarchive.com
 
2012-10-28 09:36:35 AM
James Harden threw away 5 more years of guaranteed championship contention over 4.5m

What a little biatch
 
2012-10-28 09:36:52 AM

bdub77: horrible trade.

horrible.

HORRIBLE.

HORRIBLE


Wait, wait, you're saying Houston made a good trade? And it hasn't been reversed by Stern? I'm confused.
 
2012-10-28 09:38:02 AM
encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
 
2012-10-28 09:43:37 AM

bulldg4life: James Harden threw away 5 more years of guaranteed championship contention over 4.5m

What a little biatch


www.paininthenet.com
 
2012-10-28 09:49:53 AM
So the reviews are mixed, to say the least. Houston was too young anyway, so we don't need more draft picks. Judging by the reactions here, we traded a head case for a desirable (albeit greedy) talent. Cool
 
2012-10-28 09:54:21 AM

HaywoodJablonski: So the reviews are mixed, to say the least. Houston was too young anyway, so we don't need more draft picks. Judging by the reactions here, we traded a head case for a desirable (albeit greedy) talent. Cool


Who's the head case? Kevin Martin being a little disgruntled about showing up in every trade rumor for a year is a little different than being a head case. Delonte West is a head case.
 
2012-10-28 09:58:22 AM
Am I crazy for thinking the Thunder made out like bandits here?
 
2012-10-28 10:05:00 AM
img22.imageshack.us
 
2012-10-28 10:24:14 AM
Now I don't know what to think of the trade. I thought it was bad until I read some of the comments here. Now I think Okie made out okay.
 
2012-10-28 10:25:18 AM
As Simmons pointed out on Twitter last night, there's no state income tax in Texas and he's (probably) getting a 5 year deal in the mid seventy million range. Don't blame Harden for this one, OKC is the one that decided to trade him.
 
2012-10-28 10:29:36 AM

Gunny Highway: Am I crazy for thinking the Thunder made out like bandits here?


No I agree. It comes down to several things:

- Harden is a good shooting guard, but Miami showed that you can take him out of his game by making him work on the defensive end, then staying in his face on the offensive end and making him drive to your help D. Go look at the stats for shooting guards last year: Take out Kobe as the outlier, and there's only 8 ppg difference between the #2 shooting guard (Joe Johnson at 18.8 ppg) and the #20 (Vince Carter!, 10.1 ppg).

- Martin is a poor man's Harden, sure. Doesn't have the shooting percentages, not as many assists, but he's 80, 85% of Harden.

- Lamb, well we'll see. Maybe he's going to be awesome, who knows, but if not he's ballast.

- OKC now has a $12m expiring contract in Martin, two extra first rounders and an extra second rounder. Think they'll sit on those? Or will they move them later in the year to help grab some front-court help? If Bynum isn't happy in Philly and destroying the team around him, would the Sixers flip him to OKC for maybe Martin's expiring, Perk, and a couple picks? Would the T-Wolves trade Love for something similar if it involved Ibaka? There will be possibilities out there.
 
2012-10-28 10:32:17 AM

VvonderJesus: As Simmons pointed out on Twitter last night, there's no state income tax in Texas and he's (probably) getting a 5 year deal in the mid seventy million range. Don't blame Harden for this one, OKC is the one that decided to trade him.


Didn't he turn down a 5 year 52 mil deal?
 
2012-10-28 10:40:08 AM

Palmer Eldritch: SilentStrider

Oh, I've heard of the Lakers. This new-look Lakers team reminds me of the Eagles right when they were calling themselves the Dream Team, and we all saw how laughably inaccurate that was. Howard is not good on offense and has a bad back, Kobe and Nash are ancient, and Gasol has been unreliable in the past. An injury to any of their key players kills them. Lose Nash, and it's back to the days of Fisher's alleged ball movement. Lose Kobe... actually, that wouldn't be the end of the world. Lose Dwight, and you're soft inside defensively. Lose Gasol, and your offense becomes long jumpers and Howard's incredibly awkward attempted hook shots. Even if all four of them stay healthy, their bench is thin enough to read a newspaper through. The Lakers aren't winning the title with this core... feel free to rub this post in my face if I'm wrong, but I'm not too worried about that happening.


interesting. ima copy/paste this and e-mail it to my buddy. he's a big-time lakers fan, and is already buying tickets to this year lakers/heat final.
 
2012-10-28 10:40:26 AM

jayhawk88: Gunny Highway: Am I crazy for thinking the Thunder made out like bandits here?

No I agree. It comes down to several things:

- Harden is a good shooting guard, but Miami showed that you can take him out of his game by making him work on the defensive end, then staying in his face on the offensive end and making him drive to your help D. Go look at the stats for shooting guards last year: Take out Kobe as the outlier, and there's only 8 ppg difference between the #2 shooting guard (Joe Johnson at 18.8 ppg) and the #20 (Vince Carter!, 10.1 ppg).

- Martin is a poor man's Harden, sure. Doesn't have the shooting percentages, not as many assists, but he's 80, 85% of Harden.

- Lamb, well we'll see. Maybe he's going to be awesome, who knows, but if not he's ballast.

- OKC now has a $12m expiring contract in Martin, two extra first rounders and an extra second rounder. Think they'll sit on those? Or will they move them later in the year to help grab some front-court help? If Bynum isn't happy in Philly and destroying the team around him, would the Sixers flip him to OKC for maybe Martin's expiring, Perk, and a couple picks? Would the T-Wolves trade Love for something similar if it involved Ibaka? There will be possibilities out there.


You have to figure Martin's shooting percentage will go up when he's not the only offense on his team. Spent his career on Sacramento and Houston. Not exactly star-studded lineups.

Oklahoma City gets picks, Lamb, and Martin. Could work. Harden's very good, but he has more value to a lesser team as a starting star player. Also, what's up with the Kendrick Perkins reference in the headline? Perkins is owed a lot of money, but he seems to be a pretty solid defensive player. The same people whining about how there are no centers anymore are probably the same ones scratching their heads about why the Celtics went from great to good and the Thunder from good to great right around the Perkins trade.
 
2012-10-28 10:44:14 AM

jayhawk88: Gunny Highway: Am I crazy for thinking the Thunder made out like bandits here?

No I agree. It comes down to several things:

- Harden is a good shooting guard, but Miami showed that you can take him out of his game by making him work on the defensive end, then staying in his face on the offensive end and making him drive to your help D. Go look at the stats for shooting guards last year: Take out Kobe as the outlier, and there's only 8 ppg difference between the #2 shooting guard (Joe Johnson at 18.8 ppg) and the #20 (Vince Carter!, 10.1 ppg).

- Martin is a poor man's Harden, sure. Doesn't have the shooting percentages, not as many assists, but he's 80, 85% of Harden.

- Lamb, well we'll see. Maybe he's going to be awesome, who knows, but if not he's ballast.

- OKC now has a $12m expiring contract in Martin, two extra first rounders and an extra second rounder. Think they'll sit on those? Or will they move them later in the year to help grab some front-court help? If Bynum isn't happy in Philly and destroying the team around him, would the Sixers flip him to OKC for maybe Martin's expiring, Perk, and a couple picks? Would the T-Wolves trade Love for something similar if it involved Ibaka? There will be possibilities out there.


Totally agree. this was a great move by OKC to replace Harden's production this year, while maintaining cap flexibility and continuing to improve their depth and future maneuverability.

bulldg4life: James Harden threw away 5 more years of guaranteed championship contention over 4.5m

What a little biatch


Nope. He's going to get 5/80 in Houston + no tax. That's going to end up being about 4-5m a year plus an extra year on top. Not to mention he gets to be their franchise player and can set himself up nicely for a second max deal.

This trade reminds me a lot of Phoenix trading Joe Johnson to the Hawks several years back. He could've stayed with Nash and the Suns on a contender, but he wanted to be the guy and get a bigger deal. Now he's banked a total of about 200m with the Hawks and gone to six straight all star guys as their man. No, they're not going to win any titles, but I doubt Joe Johnson regrets that decision.
 
2012-10-28 10:47:38 AM
^all star games on that Joe Johnson point.

Also I wanted to throw in that I don't think this changes the power balance much out west. I still think OKC will finish with the best record, with the Spurs and Lakers vying for that 2nd seed. The Clippers should be improved this year, but Vinny Del Negro - so I'm not sure.
 
2012-10-28 10:49:21 AM

stir22: Palmer Eldritch: SilentStrider

Oh, I've heard of the Lakers. This new-look Lakers team reminds me of the Eagles right when they were calling themselves the Dream Team, and we all saw how laughably inaccurate that was. Howard is not good on offense and has a bad back, Kobe and Nash are ancient, and Gasol has been unreliable in the past. An injury to any of their key players kills them. Lose Nash, and it's back to the days of Fisher's alleged ball movement. Lose Kobe... actually, that wouldn't be the end of the world. Lose Dwight, and you're soft inside defensively. Lose Gasol, and your offense becomes long jumpers and Howard's incredibly awkward attempted hook shots. Even if all four of them stay healthy, their bench is thin enough to read a newspaper through. The Lakers aren't winning the title with this core... feel free to rub this post in my face if I'm wrong, but I'm not too worried about that happening.

interesting. ima copy/paste this and e-mail it to my buddy. he's a big-time lakers fan, and is already buying tickets to this year lakers/heat final.


Except it's not exactly right. Dwight's not "bad" at offense. His game is limited, but he's been putting up 20 points a game for a few years, shooting at a 55-60% clip. He's not Ben Wallace. I'm not exactly sure how their 12 man lineup will shake out, but they have Steve Blake as well, who is unexciting but competent at PG. Chris Duhon too, but they aren't gonna have 4 PGs in the lineup. If they lose Kobe or Dwight or Gasol they're in trouble, sure, but how many teams aren't in trouble if they lose a star player? They do have a bunch of young big men they could throw in, maybe one of them works out. Which applies to the bench as well. While pretty thin, it's more unproven than proven scrubs.

Not saying they WILL win, but the idea that Dwight's bad at offense because all he does is dunk is kinda silly.
 
2012-10-28 10:49:31 AM
And the Lakers road to the finals just got that much easier.

Thanks, suckers.
 
2012-10-28 10:50:51 AM

bdub77: horrible trade.

horrible.

HORRIBLE.

HORRIBLE


I've been told it's awesome for my fantasy basketball team and I have no clue why.
 
2012-10-28 10:53:41 AM

redmond24: And the Lakers road to the finals just got that much easier.

Thanks, suckers.


Assuming they stay healthy and get production from the bench.
 
2012-10-28 10:54:02 AM

stir22: interesting. ima copy/paste this and e-mail it to my buddy. he's a big-time lakers fan, and is already buying tickets to this year lakers/heat final.


Simmons was talking in his NBA over/under pod how the Nash/Gasol high/low game is now the heart of the Lakers offense, but it remains to be seen whether Kobe and Howard will accept that. My money is on "No", but if they do, watch the hell out.
 
2012-10-28 10:59:01 AM

jayhawk88: stir22: interesting. ima copy/paste this and e-mail it to my buddy. he's a big-time lakers fan, and is already buying tickets to this year lakers/heat final.

Simmons was talking in his NBA over/under pod how the Nash/Gasol high/low game is now the heart of the Lakers offense, but it remains to be seen whether Kobe and Howard will accept that. My money is on "No", but if they do, watch the hell out.


I still have to catch his podcast with Scal.
 
2012-10-28 10:59:52 AM

Gunny Highway: VvonderJesus: As Simmons pointed out on Twitter last night, there's no state income tax in Texas and he's (probably) getting a 5 year deal in the mid seventy million range. Don't blame Harden for this one, OKC is the one that decided to trade him.

Didn't he turn down a 5 year 52 mil deal?


4 years
 
2012-10-28 11:00:13 AM
grinding_journalist
I've been told it's awesome for my fantasy basketball team and I have no clue why.

Do you have Harden? He's going to get a lot more minutes, and he'll be a number one scoring option.
 
2012-10-28 11:03:13 AM

Gunny Highway: redmond24: And the Lakers road to the finals just got that much easier.

Thanks, suckers.

Assuming they stay healthy and get production from the bench.


Of course.

But Harden's "drive left, tuck head down into beard and draw foul + get the and 1 absolutely killed us last year. And they replaced him with a guy who plays absolutely trash defense.
 
2012-10-28 11:03:55 AM

redmond24: And the Lakers road to the finals just got that much easier.

Thanks, suckers.


Hopefully Mike Brown won't run that backcourt into the ground. He played Kobe 38.5 minutes a game last year which was way too many. I don't want to see Kobe or Nash play more than 32-34 a game.

Three point shooting and perimeter defense could be a major problem.
 
2012-10-28 11:08:52 AM
Where are you people getting these 5 year 70/80m deals from?

Harden is eligible for the 4 year, $60m (it may be 63) extension which is the max deal. The thunder offered him 4 years, $55m and he turned it down.
 
2012-10-28 11:12:21 AM

Gunny Highway: Am I crazy for thinking the Thunder made out like bandits here?


No, no you are not.
 
2012-10-28 11:14:08 AM

coolio mack: redmond24: And the Lakers road to the finals just got that much easier.

Thanks, suckers.

Hopefully Mike Brown won't run that backcourt into the ground. He played Kobe 38.5 minutes a game last year which was way too many. I don't want to see Kobe or Nash play more than 32-34 a game.

Three point shooting and perimeter defense could be a major problem.


Kobe's never played with a true PG before. He just needs to let Nash dish the ball. If Kobe shoots a maximum 25 shots per game and goes 20/25 then that's a good game for the Lakers.

Perimeter defense could be a problem but the backcourt can press on their guards up high because Dwight Howard owns the paint. Anyone gets by Nash's subpar defense then Dwight can block or alter the shot.

If Mike Brown can't at least get to the finals with this crew then Kupchck should ring up Phil Jackson for Kobe's final year.
 
182
2012-10-28 11:18:09 AM

bulldg4life: Where are you people getting these 5 year 70/80m deals from?

Harden is eligible for the 4 year, $60m (it may be 63) extension which is the max deal. The thunder offered him 4 years, $55m and he turned it down.


yeah, and maxing out would have sent OKC further into luxury tax territory. harden should have took the what he could, when a ring or two, then cash in.
 
2012-10-28 11:18:49 AM

basemetal: Gunny Highway: Am I crazy for thinking the Thunder made out like bandits here?

No, no you are not.


I get that it makes long-term sense but they basically just decided they don't care about THIS year. With Harden anchoring their bench they had a huge advantage over most teams in the West. I mean Harden would have walked ALL over the Lakers and Dallas bench and compete against Spurs and Clippers (who are really deep).

Now my rankings for the West are

Lakers (very top-heavy but unbelievable starting lineup)
Spurs (popavich will have them competing)
CLIPPERS! (very very deep)
OKC (now Westbrook gets more touches which is bad for OKC)
 
2012-10-28 11:21:22 AM
Couple of points:

1. If you think the Lakers are title contenders, you watch too much ESPN. Dwight Howard plus 3 guys from the 1999 All Star game doesn't make you a title contender. The Thunder (even despite my next point) and Spurs are better, and you never know when a young team might break out like the Clippers or Grizzlies. You can name their starting 5? Great who plays the minutes old ass Nash and Kobe can't play? Or the minutes when Dwight's back gets creaky? Or when Gasol gets sand in his vagina?

2. I think this is going to hurt the Thunder this year. I don't think it was a bad trade, in fact they got quite a bounty. But I think it hurts the team chemistry, an underrated and often ignored piece of the Thunder's success. Those dudes actually like each other. This won't be just losing some free agent...this will be losing a friend for those guys and I think it will affect them. They'll get over it of course, but a slow start is a possibility...and the vultures start circling--- did they make the right choice, what's wrong with the Thunder, is Westbrook shooting too much?That shiat can ruin their season.

3. Bad for Harden. I think this is terrible for him. The guy is not a "The Man Guy", hell that's why he wanted to go to OKC in the first place. He couldn't handle being the man in college and wanted to be a complimentary piece on OKC. So he goes to Houston where...he's going to be the man? Him and Lin? That doesn't look like a recipe for success, but he got that extra couple million.

The Thunder should have just paid him. Regardless of his skill set or production, he just fit perfectly in their system and filled that role for them. He was worth more to them than any other team. I don't want to hear them crying about poverty either, or their small market. The Thunder have an international superstar in Durant and were on the verge of having 4 pieces of a championship core locked up for the next 5 years and they couldn't have invested an extra 5 million over 5 years with all that potential in front of them?
 
2012-10-28 11:21:50 AM
Quick quiz question: can anyone name an NBA shooting guard who is worse at defense than Kevin Martin?
 
2012-10-28 11:25:13 AM

Palmer Eldritch: Quick quiz question: can anyone name an NBA shooting guard who is worse at defense than Kevin Martin?


Ramon Sessions.

Boom.
 
2012-10-28 11:26:59 AM

js34603: Couple of points:

1. If you think the Lakers are title contenders, you watch too much ESPN. Dwight Howard plus 3 guys from the 1999 All Star game doesn't make you a title contender. The Thunder (even despite my next point) and Spurs are better, and you never know when a young team might break out like the Clippers or Grizzlies. You can name their starting 5? Great who plays the minutes old ass Nash and Kobe can't play? Or the minutes when Dwight's back gets creaky? Or when Gasol gets sand in his vagina?

2. I think this is going to hurt the Thunder this year. I don't think it was a bad trade, in fact they got quite a bounty. But I think it hurts the team chemistry, an underrated and often ignored piece of the Thunder's success. Those dudes actually like each other. This won't be just losing some free agent...this will be losing a friend for those guys and I think it will affect them. They'll get over it of course, but a slow start is a possibility...and the vultures start circling--- did they make the right choice, what's wrong with the Thunder, is Westbrook shooting too much?That shiat can ruin their season.

3. Bad for Harden. I think this is terrible for him. The guy is not a "The Man Guy", hell that's why he wanted to go to OKC in the first place. He couldn't handle being the man in college and wanted to be a complimentary piece on OKC. So he goes to Houston where...he's going to be the man? Him and Lin? That doesn't look like a recipe for success, but he got that extra couple million.

The Thunder should have just paid him. Regardless of his skill set or production, he just fit perfectly in their system and filled that role for them. He was worth more to them than any other team. I don't want to hear them crying about poverty either, or their small market. The Thunder have an international superstar in Durant and were on the verge of having 4 pieces of a championship core locked up for the next 5 years and they couldn't have invested an extra 5 million over 5 ...


You lost me at your first point when you wouldn't even concede that Lakers are title contenders. Haters gonna hate.
 
2012-10-28 11:27:08 AM

redmond24: I get that it makes long-term sense but they basically just decided they don't care about THIS year. With Harden anchoring their bench they had a huge advantage over most teams in the West. I mean Harden would have walked ALL over the Lakers and Dallas bench and compete against Spurs and Clippers (who are really deep).

Now my rankings for the West are

Lakers (very top-heavy but unbelievable starting lineup)
Spurs (popavich will have them competing)
CLIPPERS! (very very deep)
OKC (now Westbrook gets more touches which is bad for OKC)


Why is bench so important that it sends OKC to a 4 slot and puts the Vinny del Negro-lead Clips all the way to 3, but doesn't affect the Lakers at all? That Lakers second unit is an abomination.
 
2012-10-28 11:28:35 AM
Maybe harden went a little Linsane.
 
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