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(Daily Mail)   Researchers discover why children think they are invisible when they hide their eyes - and it's not what you think   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 35
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21264 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Oct 2012 at 8:46 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-10-28 12:10:49 PM
3 votes:
The way small kids view the world gives support to ideology.

This is all you really need to know about religion.
2012-10-28 11:37:33 AM
3 votes:

BizarreMan: Somebody actually got a research grant to study kids and peek-a-boo? I'm all for science doesn't always have to have a value assigned to it. But come on, really?


Oh, I would say that it is very useful indeed. We don't perceive the world around us as it is, objectively speaking. The human mind interprets the information we receive from our senses to create a subjective mental map. That is the only world we consciously experience and the only one we know.

By studying this, we can learn more about the process of interpretation and gain a greater insight into the process by which reality is mapped by our consciousness, and thus learn more not only about how we perceive, but what unknowns might be outside of our own mental constructs.
2012-10-28 08:55:40 AM
3 votes:
I have friends who have worked overseas, some as missionaries, some in the Peace Corps. They all say that "peek-a-boo" is a universal game among children, regardless of native language.

/where's my towel?
2012-10-27 11:11:58 PM
3 votes:
Bogeymen are sentient creatures who are often considered undead though they technically are not, since they haven't actually died. Bogeymen take shapes to scare people, especially kids. Some bogeymen are more comfortable under a bed, behind a door, or in a cellar. One of the few ways to subdue a bogeyman is to put a blanket on his head. The theory goes that everyone knows Bogeymen disappear if you put the blankets over your head, and so by putting a blanket over a Bogeyman's head his belief in his own existence is impaired. Apparently, light blue blankets are most effective but no-one seems to know why ---- Terry Prachett
2012-10-29 12:03:32 AM
2 votes:
Researchers seem prone to misinterpreting utterances of toddlers. They put masks on kids and said "can I see you?" Kid said "no." Cuz they're behind a mask, right? And the researcher decides that this means the kid thinks they're invisible.
2012-10-28 05:47:06 PM
2 votes:
Because kids are self-centered little shiats who hasn't developed the cognitive ability to see from another person's perspectives?

/covered in first year psy
2012-10-28 02:00:57 PM
2 votes:

Gordon Bennett: BizarreMan: Somebody actually got a research grant to study kids and peek-a-boo? I'm all for science doesn't always have to have a value assigned to it. But come on, really?

Oh, I would say that it is very useful indeed. We don't perceive the world around us as it is, objectively speaking. The human mind interprets the information we receive from our senses to create a subjective mental map. That is the only world we consciously experience and the only one we know.

By studying this, we can learn more about the process of interpretation and gain a greater insight into the process by which reality is mapped by our consciousness, and thus learn more not only about how we perceive, but what unknowns might be outside of our own mental constructs.


Thus, the foundation of one of the biggest problems in philosophy and all things which spring from it, including science. You can never really know if reality is real or if it's just a useful construct of the mind. Only way around it to make reality concrete is simply to make the hard assumption that what seems real is real enough to be called reality, regardless of the fact that said assumption may be completely wrong and the only reality one can be certain of is their own mind.
2012-10-28 10:20:43 AM
2 votes:
If they're prevented from staring directly at the Daily Mail logo, very young children can be temporarily fooled into thinking they're looking at an article that one can confidently expect to correctly characterize scientific study results.
2012-10-28 09:04:59 AM
2 votes:

MaudlinMutantMollusk: AmbassadorBooze: BarkingUnicorn: AmbassadorBooze: Is it because kids are stupid?

No, it's because "the self" is all in your head. Ask any Zen master, or 3 year-old.

Do Zen masyers believe they are invisible when they close their eyes?

It depends on whether they want to be or not


You've got it all backwards. They are, in fact, invisible. But at that age, precisely because their brains are less developed and not fully "educated," they are capable of projecting an alter reality into other people's brains. You, loving and doting parent, see your little child playing games because that is exactly the image they can project into your skull. Add in the temporal perturbations and they can fool you into thinking the eyes were covered for seconds, rather than the hours that actually pass.

I cannot go into what the little ones do during these escapades of freedom. It's too disturbing for FARK and you really don't want to know.
2012-10-27 11:17:47 PM
2 votes:

MaudlinMutantMollusk: AmbassadorBooze: BarkingUnicorn: AmbassadorBooze: Is it because kids are stupid?

No, it's because "the self" is all in your head. Ask any Zen master, or 3 year-old.

Do Zen masyers believe they are invisible when they close their eyes?

It depends on whether they want to be or not


WHOOSH! :-)
2012-10-27 10:45:38 PM
2 votes:

AmbassadorBooze: Is it because kids are stupid?


No, it's because "the self" is all in your head. Ask any Zen master, or 3 year-old.
2012-10-27 10:34:03 PM
2 votes:
Is it because kids are stupid?
2012-10-28 08:18:17 PM
1 votes:

AmbassadorBooze: Is it because kids are stupid?


Very young kids are far from stupid. Most stupidity is learned - it is instilled by the education system, religion and other narrow minded adults.

Young children have a far higher capacity to learn than adults do, so in that way they are more intelligent than adults. Intelligence is not what you know, but your capacity to learn.
2012-10-28 08:16:49 PM
1 votes:
That's why very young children are so noisy - they think if nobody looks at them every few minutes, they'll disappear.
2012-10-28 04:45:37 PM
1 votes:
That article was almost unreadable. Ambiguous antecedents are ambiguous.
2012-10-28 03:52:23 PM
1 votes:
These researchers are making this too complicated. It's really very simple. Children's brains have not matured to the point that they can understand that there are points of view other than their own. They think if they can't see something, then no one can see it. They think if they can't see you, then you can't see them.
2012-10-28 01:33:38 PM
1 votes:
It can't possibly be because adults typically pretend to go along with it and pretend they've disappeared.

My almost-2-year-old plays this game. If I say, "Where's James?" He immediately slaps his hands over his eyes and starts giggling. Slowly he peels them back and peeks at me, and I exclaim "THERE he is!!" And he quickly hides again.

The other day he came up to me and yelled, "SAY WHAR JAMES!" and mr teeny immediately said "SAY WHERE'S ERNIE." Goddamn that movie.
2012-10-28 01:33:32 PM
1 votes:

SwiftFox: gerrychampoux: Came here expecting a reference to the Bugblatter Beast of Traal.

Shh. We're hiding from it.

/Is "Shh" a word?
//How about Tsk


Hmm.

/I'll have to get back to you on that one.
2012-10-28 12:20:42 PM
1 votes:
25.media.tumblr.com

Don't look away.

Don't turn your back.

Don't blink.

Don't even blink.
2012-10-28 11:25:44 AM
1 votes:

biglot: Yeah, we had a kitty with us for 13 years and I'd swear that that cat was thinkin' that if he wasn't looking at us ... we couldn't see him.


No, if he wasn't looking at you, you were too insignificant for him to care whether you could see him or not.
2012-10-28 11:14:15 AM
1 votes:

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Headso: I wonder if it is some sort of evolutionary thing, when you are a small child crouching down and hiding your eyes is pretty much the only defense you have against some prey animal spotting you.

I've known people who were in Special Forces and Light Infantry units. A common tactic, apparently, is to never look directly at a target, because the target will somehow sense your gaze. Ever been in a crowd, felt uncomfortable, or something tickling the back of your neck, and turned around to see someone starring at you? Yeah, that kind of creepy.


I've played around with this while bored and waiting in a group of strangers, or in a crowd. Look near a person, and they don't notice you. Look at the person, and they will look up at you every time.

Fortunately, I am a harmless-looking small female so I haven't gotten myself into too much trouble with this trick. YMMV if you are a big scary looking guy. ; )
2012-10-28 10:58:35 AM
1 votes:

kd8our: Interesting idea. Have read similar things before.

This is another drop in the bucket that shows eye contact is very important to humans. So important that it is one of the first things humans use to identify self awareness of anything. This goes beyond projections of ourselves and other humans. Think people who put eyes on boats, shields, buildings, trees, etc. Think children's drawings too. Tell them to make something alive and it will almost always have eyes and typically a face. One myth I remember is that eyes on boats kept bad luck and evil at bay or made the ship scary to real and unreal threats. I say a boat covered in spikes or other features would be more effective. However it could be that the eyes made the ship come alive to those who built and used the vessel. Eyes aren't the window to the soul they are the projection and perceived idea of a soul.

I have read that the people who made those big statues on Easter Island considered it complete when the eyes were installed and at that point the statue was alive.

Two co workers are terrified of rodents. They freak out more if it "makes eye contact" and thus invoking my WTF response.
"It looked at you? so what." My mind can't see why this would make the mouse more of a threat. Of course I have killed more mice than most people have seen.
Never mind that you really can't see where a mouse is looking and they have shiat vision anyways. However this seems to make the mouse "more real" with perceived eye contact. It gives the mouse a motive in their minds. This also occurs in animals without traditional eyes. In that case our mind will give them eyes and almost always 2 human like eyes.

The other end of the question is what of the blind? It would be interesting to see data from people who have gone blind and those who were born blind.  Mainly people who have intact brains but damaged or malformed eyes.


In my day I've had vets put down several aged or severely injured cats and dogs. I've always been there with them when the vet does the injection. There is always a "spark" that "goes away" from the eyes at the time of death. I've always tried to rationalize it as "relaxed eye muscles" or whatnot. Every vet I've mentioned it to has also noticed it. Some of them agree: just muscles relaxing. Most seem to think it's some sort of "presence" that departs the body. They say that because they don't see the same change when the animal is anesthetized, and claim that the same muscles would be involved.
2012-10-28 10:42:52 AM
1 votes:
Is it that they think they are invisible, or that they identify self as face, and the body is superfluous to the question of identity? I wonder did the researchers ask, can I see your toes? Can I see your tummy?

FTFA: Although when the children were asked to explain how they were made invisible by simply hiding their eyes, many knew that their bodies remained visible, suggesting a childhood distinction between their physical bodies and the 'self' they connect to their eyes.


So it would seem that, no, they do not think they "go invisible". They simply identify the self as the face. If the face is covered, no, you can't see "them."
2012-10-28 10:27:34 AM
1 votes:
Trippin' Balls!
i.dailymail.co.uk
2012-10-28 10:22:20 AM
1 votes:
Maybe children are more in tune with quantum mechanics. Observation or lack of it is vital there.
2012-10-28 10:07:10 AM
1 votes:
I wonder if it is some sort of evolutionary thing, when you are a small child crouching down and hiding your eyes is pretty much the only defense you have against some prey animal spotting you.
2012-10-28 09:35:01 AM
1 votes:
Interesting idea. Have read similar things before.

This is another drop in the bucket that shows eye contact is very important to humans. So important that it is one of the first things humans use to identify self awareness of anything. This goes beyond projections of ourselves and other humans. Think people who put eyes on boats, shields, buildings, trees, etc. Think children's drawings too. Tell them to make something alive and it will almost always have eyes and typically a face. One myth I remember is that eyes on boats kept bad luck and evil at bay or made the ship scary to real and unreal threats. I say a boat covered in spikes or other features would be more effective. However it could be that the eyes made the ship come alive to those who built and used the vessel. Eyes aren't the window to the soul they are the projection and perceived idea of a soul.

I have read that the people who made those big statues on Easter Island considered it complete when the eyes were installed and at that point the statue was alive.

Two co workers are terrified of rodents. They freak out more if it "makes eye contact" and thus invoking my WTF response.
"It looked at you? so what." My mind can't see why this would make the mouse more of a threat. Of course I have killed more mice than most people have seen.
Never mind that you really can't see where a mouse is looking and they have shiat vision anyways. However this seems to make the mouse "more real" with perceived eye contact. It gives the mouse a motive in their minds. This also occurs in animals without traditional eyes. In that case our mind will give them eyes and almost always 2 human like eyes.

The other end of the question is what of the blind? It would be interesting to see data from people who have gone blind and those who were born blind.  Mainly people who have intact brains but damaged or malformed eyes.
2012-10-28 09:11:34 AM
1 votes:
.. Did everyone not already know this?

/confused
2012-10-28 08:49:43 AM
1 votes:
I don't think I've ever met a child who thought that. WTF? Of course, I didn't RTFA so that could be my problem right there.
2012-10-28 07:43:37 AM
1 votes:
i.chzbgr.com

/equal time for dog lovers
2012-10-28 07:41:31 AM
1 votes:
i.chzbgr.com
2012-10-28 12:00:40 AM
1 votes:
My dog thinks I cant see her when her head is behind the couch. She weighs 100lbs and her body sticks out really far.
2012-10-27 11:01:31 PM
1 votes:

Mangoose: The first real memory I have centered around me shutting my eyes as tightly as I could because I didn't want everyone else seeing what I see. I was terrified.


Hah. You were dumb.
2012-10-27 10:59:26 PM
1 votes:

AmbassadorBooze: BarkingUnicorn: AmbassadorBooze: Is it because kids are stupid?

No, it's because "the self" is all in your head. Ask any Zen master, or 3 year-old.

Do Zen masyers believe they are invisible when they close their eyes?


It depends on whether they want to be or not
2012-10-27 10:47:24 PM
1 votes:
The first real memory I have centered around me shutting my eyes as tightly as I could because I didn't want everyone else seeing what I see. I was terrified.
 
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