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(The New York Times)   Asians are 14% of the city's students but win 60% of the seats to elite high schools in a competitive exam. Do other ethnic groups A) Study harder, B) Learn from Asian culture, or C) File a lawsuit?   (nytimes.com) divider line 323
    More: Obvious, Brooklyn College, ethnicity, Duane Reades, exams, atomic whirl, high schools  
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12097 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Oct 2012 at 7:37 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-28 08:51:29 PM  
The subtext of racism is strong in this thread! Let us not forget the socioeconomic issues that drive much of this.

The solution is encouraging childbirth for couples that actually want to raise productive citizens.

-free contraception
-free abortion
-limit scope of food stamp purchases to a very narrow range of food products
 
2012-10-28 08:52:23 PM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: I've always believed that you don't go into engineering because you think it's a good idea, I think you become an engineer because you have to be an engineer and you were born that way.


As someone who spent Saturday night writing an app to combine photos into HDR images... yeah.

/surprisingly easy with well-aligned images
//now I need to add alignment through afine transformations
 
2012-10-28 08:55:20 PM  

danceswithcrows: Vectron: I didn't read what you wrote

That's OK; if you'd like to look at JPEGs instead of text, we have that too. (Possibly NSFW, depending.)


Great googly moogly...
 
2012-10-28 09:28:01 PM  

Lollipop165: Make of it what you will, but it drives me kind of bonkers when Asians aren't covered in affirmtive action because the are a "model minority". Either you are going to do affirmative action or you aren't, imho.


They are covered by the tolerance scheme. Gooks are weeded out because they are overrepresented, and a campus can't have too many of those people without looking different than the rest of America. We can't have that, can we?

/progress!
 
2012-10-28 09:35:42 PM  

apachevoyeur: The subtext of racism is strong in this thread! Let us not forget the socioeconomic issues that drive much of this.

The solution is encouraging childbirth for couples that actually want to raise productive citizens.

-free contraception
-free abortion
-limit scope of food stamp purchases to a very narrow range of food products



I believe this is a pretty good summation of the origins of Planned Parenthood. Margaret Sanger was a proponent of eugenics.
 
2012-10-28 09:56:37 PM  

XYNHR: Can't we just cut the Occam's razor and say that asians > whites > blacks as far as smarts (and vice versa as far as dick size), and call it a day?


I don't think that's the case. I think it's a matter of how hard they try.
 
2012-10-28 10:04:14 PM  

Loren: XYNHR: Can't we just cut the Occam's razor and say that asians > whites > blacks as far as smarts (and vice versa as far as dick size), and call it a day?

I don't think that's the case. I think it's a matter of how hard they try.


A little bit of both, my daughter was able to remember everything said in a class and did little studying. Some of the kids hated her for doing so well with little effort.
 
2012-10-28 10:10:44 PM  
I remember the days when people were better than you at something you used that as motivation to work harder to get what you wanted. I guess that is too logical and moral for today's society. I don't "hate" as a rule. It is not a part of my personality or moral fiber, but I hate that America has become so lawsuit happy. It's really a shame. The people that got into this thing because of this should be ashamed of themselves, and I hope they're at the very bottom of the barrel. Serves them right.
 
2012-10-28 10:26:54 PM  

RodneyToady: Chariset: Wait: so white people want... affirmative action?

I don't think white people are leading the charge on this one.

There may be a hidden factor here as well. I don't think it's simply "Asian" vs. "not Asian." I think it's also "immigrant" vs "non-immigrant." While my parents (immigrant Sicilian father) didn't push me to take this test, they still pushed me hard to achieve academically. I got into the public Queens equivalent, and went to what is likely the best Catholic high school in the county (possibly the city). My friends, also children of immigrants, were pushed in much the same way. Race/ethnicity wasn't the driver... immigrant parents was.


I used to work in an after school coaching college where children did extra school work after school hours. Almost all of the enrolled students were the children of immigrants, most of them Korean and Chinese. There were also some Lebanese kids, but very few white non-immigrant children.

I also used to work in Korea and noticed that everyone over there is very keen on education, including science. I mentioned science because Koreans are the most religious Christians I have ever come across. There is literally a church on every block.
 
2012-10-28 11:23:58 PM  

Vectron: I didn't read what you wrote but I would like to lock her up in my basement for a few years.


More of her (probably NSFW)
and moar (probably NSFW)
 
2012-10-29 01:28:55 AM  

Fish in a Barrel: As someone who spent Saturday night writing an app to combine photos into HDR images... yeah.

/surprisingly easy with well-aligned images
//now I need to add alignment through affine transformations


Guessing you're not Asian...
 
2012-10-29 02:03:20 AM  

theredsea1: Many Asians study constantly-12 hours a day. I bet if you compared apples to oranges (whites and those that study in unfree education systems such as tracking) you'd find no valid conclusion.

Whites: sue more until the apologists for educational tracking stop.


FTFY. The only thing that this proves is that educational tracking/banding/etc. needs to die a nasty death. White, Asian, Hispanic, African-American, or whatever - no net benefit comes from using a test that ends up tracking someone for a lifetime of drudgery.

Oh, and before you bring in the PISA tests, remember that they do not control for openness of admissions.
 
2012-10-29 02:08:29 AM  

DrewCurtisJr: RminusQ: Here's why there's a fully justified lawsuit. Admission to the elite schools is based ONLY on a single exam, and that exam has shown little to no correlation to actual performance in the elite high school.

You can complain about the exam all you want but the fact is any object measure of academic achievement is not going to get them the results they want. They will want racial set asides, or proxy racial set asides like using zip codes or what elementary school they graduated from, so they are not judged by the same standards as the other students.


That presumes it is objective. It is not given the original intent.
 
2012-10-29 02:49:34 AM  

martid4: [seemslegit.com image 750x600]


Would be funnier if the characters on the board behind him don't appear to say "naikaku senkyo" (cabinet election).

So more accurately "Because your social studies isn't going to do itself".
 
2012-10-29 03:05:56 AM  

ParagonComplex: I remember the days when people were better than you at something you used that as motivation to work harder to get what you wanted. I guess that is too logical and moral for today's society. I don't "hate" as a rule. It is not a part of my personality or moral fiber, but I hate that America has become so lawsuit happy. It's really a shame. The people that got into this thing because of this should be ashamed of themselves, and I hope they're at the very bottom of the barrel. Serves them right.


No matter their position, litigating one's way in is always acceptable for overcoming the limitations of educational banding.
 
2012-10-29 07:11:55 AM  
For those that hit the paywall, try this proxy site. NY times and others only allow an IP address a certain amount of pageviews per month.
 
2012-10-29 07:13:58 AM  
Whoops. Would help to have the address huh?:

http://anonymouse.org/anonwww.html
 
2012-10-29 09:39:55 AM  
Anyone who thinks "Asian" is a monolithic bloc really needs to meet some young Koreans. I hate to be stereotypical, but they basically revel in being wiggers. (Kiggers?) You can find them across all Asian nationalities, but it's really concentrated in Koreans for some reason.
 
2012-10-29 09:56:48 AM  

JesusJuice: Easy fix: include an essay component. Asians are great at memorizing tests, but original thinking? Not so much.


Because there aren't any essays in every single college prep course, literature courses, social studies courses, or college entrance applications? That must be why Asians aren't accepted into colleges then.
 
2012-10-29 11:04:26 AM  

sethstorm: That presumes it is objective. It is not given the original intent.


How do you figure? What was the original intent?
 
2012-10-29 01:45:52 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: sethstorm: That presumes it is objective. It is not given the original intent.

How do you figure? What was the original intent?


The original intent was to remove minorities. However, that test did not control for participants from unfree education systems (such as Asian "one test determines your life" tracking systems) and thus caused the test to deviate from the intended effect

Either way, the only good solution is to remove the test and implement quotas based on education system - where those used to tracked systems are penalized while those under the US system(including whites not otherwise covered by minority status) would be on the good side.
 
2012-10-29 02:17:48 PM  

sethstorm: The original intent was to remove minorities. However, that test did not control for participants from unfree education systems (such as Asian "one test determines your life" tracking systems) and thus caused the test to deviate from the intended effect


That is too simplistic to say just, it was just to keep minorities out. It was too keep poor blacks and latinos out. The test could be perfectly objective, test for academic ability, and achieve this result.
 
2012-10-29 11:43:33 PM  

smitty04: Loren: XYNHR: Can't we just cut the Occam's razor and say that asians > whites > blacks as far as smarts (and vice versa as far as dick size), and call it a day?

I don't think that's the case. I think it's a matter of how hard they try.

A little bit of both, my daughter was able to remember everything said in a class and did little studying. Some of the kids hated her for doing so well with little effort.


There certainly are differences between individuals. I don't think there are differences between races, though.

sethstorm: That presumes it is objective. It is not given the original intent.


[Citation needed]
 
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