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(The New York Times)   Asians are 14% of the city's students but win 60% of the seats to elite high schools in a competitive exam. Do other ethnic groups A) Study harder, B) Learn from Asian culture, or C) File a lawsuit?   (nytimes.com) divider line 323
    More: Obvious, Brooklyn College, ethnicity, Duane Reades, exams, atomic whirl, high schools  
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12081 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Oct 2012 at 7:37 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-28 05:12:27 PM

mmagdalene: CSS time: One of my students arrived here from China three years ago, speaking no English. However, he has worked incredibly hard since his arrival (while also working full-time at his uncle's business in exchange for room and board), is taking a full load of Honors classes this year and will have his pick of top universities next fall.

Three main things have made the difference for him:

First, in China, he benefited from a world-class mathematics education beginning at age 4. Unlike the American system, math is taught is such a way that kids understand it and enjoy it. They're not turned off and frustrated by it, nor are they ever allowed to label themselves as "bad at math". That happens very early here, sometimes by second or third grade.

Having that strength has allowed him to feel successful in school and earn recognition for his efforts, which makes teachers and administrators invest in his success in other areas.


are you sure math is not genetic? I'm Asian and was insanely good at math. I mean, like, getting a 100% on a test when every other student scored 40%'s, literally. my brother and sister also excelled at computer science, but all of us were educated in America. our parents didn't even have that great of an education in China; by the time I was in like 7th grade, I was already surpassing them in academic ability.

And I have to second your point about math and confidence / connections. being able to answer every math question at the drop of a hat did wonderful things for me.
 
2012-10-28 05:12:28 PM

aesirx: Asians earn their good grades. they work their butts off. it's not like the teacher is spotting all of the Asians, giving them an automatic A+, and giving everyone else C's.

fourth of all, have they seen any studies on the rate of suicide, depression, and burn out that Asian high schoolers are facing? it's disproportionately high.


Yeah, my upbringing was a recipe for "success" as Randians define it, but I'm not sure I'd call it a recipe for happiness. I spend most of my twenties with a bit of a complex, I have very few fond childhood memories and no desire for children of my own. I'm better off financially AND stress-wise than most of my peers, but I don't really like how hard I had to work to get there. This is the richest country in the history of the world; why did I have to work 80-hour weeks just to pay off student loans??
 
2012-10-28 05:13:05 PM

kendelrio: kendelrio: IamKaiserSoze!!!: OK, but how did they do on their drivers exam, huh?

That's what I want to know
Comment+Cofee+Nose+Keyboard= +1 Internet for you!

And the fact I misspelled "coffee" is just.... awesome....
**facepalm**
/preview is my FRIEND




I can't believe you F'd that up.
 
2012-10-28 05:15:44 PM

serialsuicidebomber: kendelrio: kendelrio: IamKaiserSoze!!!: OK, but how did they do on their drivers exam, huh?

That's what I want to know
Comment+Cofee+Nose+Keyboard= +1 Internet for you!

And the fact I misspelled "coffee" is just.... awesome....
**facepalm**
/preview is my FRIEND



I can't believe you F'd that up.


kendelrio shames the house of his fathers!
 
2012-10-28 05:18:23 PM

aesirx: fourth of all, have they seen any studies on the rate of suicide, depression, and burn out that Asian high schoolers are facing? it's disproportionately high.


That's what concerns me when people say, "Well just work harder.". At a certain point it becomes unhealthy and our kids are losing out on the rest of life.

When I go to family owned, Asian store front restaurants it's not uncommon to see kids sitting in the corner working on homework even on Fri and Sat night.
 
2012-10-28 05:22:51 PM

DrewCurtisJr: aesirx: fourth of all, have they seen any studies on the rate of suicide, depression, and burn out that Asian high schoolers are facing? it's disproportionately high.

That's what concerns me when people say, "Well just work harder.". At a certain point it becomes unhealthy and our kids are losing out on the rest of life.

When I go to family owned, Asian store front restaurants it's not uncommon to see kids sitting in the corner working on homework even on Fri and Sat night.


well, to be honest, sometimes you have to work harder. rent won't pay itself.

also, the idea of overworking is much more prominent in Japan. there, they're putting in 10 or 12 hour days while still getting paid for 8 hours. In fact, large corporations have to force employees to take a holiday or a half day off.

Ishle Yi Park, a Korean American-born poet, has a CD titled, Work is Love.

but! how is this any different than, say, Amish or Protestant work ethics?
 
2012-10-28 05:30:08 PM

DrewCurtisJr: aesirx: fourth of all, have they seen any studies on the rate of suicide, depression, and burn out that Asian high schoolers are facing? it's disproportionately high.

That's what concerns me when people say, "Well just work harder.". At a certain point it becomes unhealthy and our kids are losing out on the rest of life.



Yes, quality of life is really important in Western societies. One of the most successful countries in the world is Germany yet they are behind the US in number of hours worked per year and productivity.

Chinese American are different from whites. It may not only be IQ but also the ability to work like crazy and remain mentally healthy.

Obviously, not only hard work counts, but capability. Anyone that has sat in a classroom knows that. 

Why are we inviting so many people into the country that will eventually become our ruling class?
 
2012-10-28 05:31:44 PM

daveUSMC: is it taboo to suggest that different cultures have different values?


When you make judgement calls about the worth of each culture without historical, sociological, political and financial context, yes.

When you try to relate those values to appearance (i.e. skin color), even more so.

Problem is that many of the people who try and "suggest" that different cultures have different values are not trying to simply explain those differences or those values, but to prove why certain cultures and certain values are better than others, particularly if those cultures and values are in line with their beliefs.

There is a difference between:
"This ball is blue and this ball is red."
and
"I think this ball is better because it is blue."
Got it?
 
2012-10-28 05:32:10 PM

MatrixOutsider: As a white guy, the only thing worse than being academically trounced by Asians was always coming in second to them because I could not match their discipline.


As a white guy, there's nothing wrong with being trounced by ______. (Fill in the blank with any human race.) There's always someone smarter/better. It happens.

Now what IS farked up beyond all recognition is that only the white guy will be told and lectured his entire life, from cradle to grave, that the only reason he got where he is is because of "white privilege", and he doesn't deserve anything he has worked for and should be ashamed of it.

Politically correct racist horseshiat. Don't obsess over race, including your own.
 
2012-10-28 05:41:52 PM

ThrobblefootSpectre: MatrixOutsider: As a white guy, the only thing worse than being academically trounced by Asians was always coming in second to them because I could not match their discipline.

As a white guy, there's nothing wrong with being trounced by ______. (Fill in the blank with any human race.) There's always someone smarter/better. It happens.

Now what IS farked up beyond all recognition is that only the white guy will be told and lectured his entire life, from cradle to grave, that the only reason he got where he is is because of "white privilege", and he doesn't deserve anything he has worked for and should be ashamed of it.

Politically correct racist horseshiat. Don't obsess over race, including your own.


I never knew white people had it this rough. Why aren't anyone talking about this instead of the frivolous bs problems other races have?
 
2012-10-28 05:44:43 PM

Fallout Boy: Why aren't anyone talking about this instead of the frivolous bs problems other races have?


Probably because problems experienced by other races aren't frivolous bs. Nice try, racist.
 
2012-10-28 05:45:12 PM

aesirx: well, to be honest, sometimes you have to work harder. rent won't pay itself.

also, the idea of overworking is much more prominent in Japan. there, they're putting in 10 or 12 hour days while still getting paid for 8 hours. In fact, large corporations have to force employees to take a holiday or a half day off.


I thought the Tiger mom was Chinese. I want our kids to excel in academics and enjoy childhood, balance.

Vectron: Chinese American are different from whites. It may not only be IQ but also the ability to work like crazy and remain mentally healthy.



Maybe they just appear that way outwardly.
 
2012-10-28 05:49:54 PM
Oops, I was supposed to cower and feel guilty about being white just then, wasn't I?
 
2012-10-28 05:55:30 PM

Fallout Boy: ThrobblefootSpectre: MatrixOutsider: As a white guy, the only thing worse than being academically trounced by Asians was always coming in second to them because I could not match their discipline.

As a white guy, there's nothing wrong with being trounced by ______. (Fill in the blank with any human race.) There's always someone smarter/better. It happens.

Now what IS farked up beyond all recognition is that only the white guy will be told and lectured his entire life, from cradle to grave, that the only reason he got where he is is because of "white privilege", and he doesn't deserve anything he has worked for and should be ashamed of it.

Politically correct racist horseshiat. Don't obsess over race, including your own.

I never knew white people had it this rough. Why aren't anyone talking about this instead of the frivolous bs problems other races have?


Can't agree more. I have had the honor of meeting plenty of white folks who work damn hard with what they have to put food on the table and a roof over their family's heads. Each time I hear a kid talking to me about how "white people" this or "white people" that, I get on his case. It's stupid, self-pitying, downright racist tripe.

Yes, there are white racists out there. There are plenty of white people in power who are racists, too. I'm sure of that.

But at least 90% of the time, the setbacks a minority kid gets in life is because of his own dumb self, and maybe his own dumb parents. And, the best way out of it is through his own hard work.

Here's some advice to parents:

1) FORCE your kids to read for an hour a day MINIMUM. No music, no tv, no computers, just a book and the kid. But put effort into letting the kid choose a book he/she will like. Go to the library, bookstore, amazon. This is the #1 factor in high reading comprehension and writing skills - and proven by data.

2) Visit your child's classroom often - bring doughnuts, little cards for holidays, presents for the teacher (maybe a homemade pie or even a thank-you card). Your child will get HUGE benefits from these small efforts, and will much more likely be willing to tell you things.

3) Invest in your child's fitness. This is a lifelong gift you can give, and must be made a habit of by high school. If you let him get fat and slovenly in high school, he/she will have to fight being depressed, fat, and unhappy the rest of his/her life.

4) Make sure your son/daughter gets help in algebra 1. if you do that properly, you won't have to worry about the rest of the math classes. If you screw that up, he/she is not going to anything better than community college.


This is tough advice that no one wants to hear, but what I've been trying hard to do. It is hard but I know I'll be dead one day and this is the best inheritance I'll ever be able to leave behind.
 
2012-10-28 05:57:39 PM

dittybopper: daveUSMC: is it taboo to suggest that different cultures have different values?

Yes, it is. It's also taboo to suggest that parents pass their cultural values down to their children, who pass them along to their children, etc.


Probably. And it's also wrong to suggest that hard work and sacrifice is what gets you ahead.

Here in So Cal, of course, we have the Hispanic immigrants (legal and otherwise) who stand out in front of Home Depots at 4 a.m. to get day labor jobs; their sons now own the small subcontracting, handyman and demolition crews that are the foundation of small construction here in this area. And we have the second- and third-generation Vietnamese whose parents rowed across the entire Pacific in leaky bathtubs who now run the entire city of Westminster and most of Long Beach.

These will not be the ones you hear complaining that their kids have too much homework or that tests to get into high school are unfair.
 
2012-10-28 05:57:44 PM

ThrobblefootSpectre: Fallout Boy: Why aren't anyone talking about this instead of the frivolous bs problems other races have?

Probably because problems experienced by other races aren't frivolous bs. Nice try, racist.


But they have to be frivolous. Otherwise people like you wouldn't think that they are comparable to the problems of white people.
 
2012-10-28 05:58:11 PM

megalynn44: So..... when it's a majority of Asians accomplishing something it's because they work harder. When it's a majority of caucasians accomplishing something the system is skewed and rigged to be unfair?


Considering caucasians own, set up and run that system, and are the majority of the population, that assumption could be plausible. Anyone else who succeeds within that system who is not a member of the majority group could be doing so in spite of their status in the social hierarchy, and not simply because of it.

You come to play a game of football. You're playing on someone else's home field, with their rules (which may not be written in a language you understand and could be changed at their discretion) and second hand equipment, in weather conditions unlike what you're used to and with referees paid for by them, and with a hometown crowd of people just like them in the stands.

Home field advantage, multiplied.
 
2012-10-28 05:58:28 PM
Clearly we need affirmative dis-action. We should FORCE a certain percentage of asian families to push the father of the household out so that there is no fatherly influence, make the mother have out-of-wedlock children by different fathers, make her quit her job and take a welfare check from the gubmint.

We can have racial equality in our lifetimes, peoples.
 
2012-10-28 06:03:20 PM

gerrymander: cmb53208: lewismarktwo: Too bad testing doesn't do anything but find the people who can memorize or test well. But who needs ingenuity?

And here we have the $64,000 question: rote learning (and cheating) gives one the ability to score well on tests. If you're not able to think on your feet and come up with solutions at a moment's notice, then what the hell good is a high test score?

I hate this argument, as it's almost certain proof that the proponent has completely forgotten how to learn.

"Thinking on your feet" isn't something that happens without a shiat-ton of scut work repeated over and over until it becomes second nature. How many great jazz musicians have there ever been from the first dane they pickup up an instrument? None, that's how many. Getting to the point of masterful improvisation takes years of playing scales and improving technique.

Same thing with everything else. You can't analyze history or poetry without knowing a damned lot about either. You can't create architecture without a reflexive understanding of a lot of math and material science. You can't even do your taxes if you can add and subtract correctly.

Schools test rote knowledge because rote knowledge matters, and it matters most as a well-placed building block to the people who are in the process of building a framework of education: students.


A pro basketball player didn't get to where he was without hours of tedious drills, freethrow shooting, and working in the gym.

Pablo Picasso didn't wake up one morning deciding to draw funny, he was in fact talented and practiced in older styles before his creative inventions.

We like to think that genius just arrives like a miracle stroke, ignoring the tedious hours and years of effort that lead to the payoff.
 
2012-10-28 06:03:39 PM

Fallout Boy: But they have to be frivolous.


*sigh* If you say so.
 
2012-10-28 06:04:58 PM

mmagdalene: Would I expect this from my own child? No, I don't think it's realistic and perhaps to his long-term economic detriment, I want him to grow up well-rounded rather than living in a pressurized environment where academic achievement is the only thing that matters. To me, it's more important to let kids have a happy childhood, exploring and learning naturally in a somewhat self-directed manner.


He (or she) will no doubt enjoy a career fetching coffee for grown-up "Chinese Son".
 
2012-10-28 06:07:16 PM

aesirx: mmagdalene: CSS time: One of my students arrived here from China three years ago, speaking no English. However, he has worked incredibly hard since his arrival (while also working full-time at his uncle's business in exchange for room and board), is taking a full load of Honors classes this year and will have his pick of top universities next fall.

Three main things have made the difference for him:

First, in China, he benefited from a world-class mathematics education beginning at age 4. Unlike the American system, math is taught is such a way that kids understand it and enjoy it. They're not turned off and frustrated by it, nor are they ever allowed to label themselves as "bad at math". That happens very early here, sometimes by second or third grade.

Having that strength has allowed him to feel successful in school and earn recognition for his efforts, which makes teachers and administrators invest in his success in other areas.


are you sure math is not genetic? I'm Asian and was insanely good at math. I mean, like, getting a 100% on a test when every other student scored 40%'s, literally. my brother and sister also excelled at computer science, but all of us were educated in America. our parents didn't even have that great of an education in China; by the time I was in like 7th grade, I was already surpassing them in academic ability.

And I have to second your point about math and confidence / connections. being able to answer every math question at the drop of a hat did wonderful things for me.


I always assumed the asian advantage in math was that math and science is the universal language. So for immigrants, it's not like picking up on the nuances of English lit, or the peculiarities of culture from wherever they go. It's simply focusing on the one thing that can be learned in their absence.*

*lots of scientific ideas arrive from cultural contexts, just saying that to understand the principles you don't necessarily have to be immersed in a xenoculture to get it.
 
2012-10-28 06:08:14 PM

aesirx: are you sure math is not genetic?


You are getting very close to pissing off a lot of feminists. :-) I'm not saying I'm disagreeing with you. Just letting you know.
 
2012-10-28 06:08:23 PM

Vectron: Marshal805: You never hear about anti-Asian sentiment as much as you do other prejudices.



Their like the one group you can mock without being called on it.

I think everybody pretty much likes Asians. I don't really like the new Chinese arrivals. I think Japanese and white people are especially compatible. They have many fine qualities to admire.


Stats show it's a common interracial marriage, so there may be something to that.
 
2012-10-28 06:15:55 PM

Fallout Boy: I never knew white people had it this rough. Why aren't anyone talking about this instead of the frivolous bs problems other races have?


There's only two acceptable responses to a white person talking about their problems:
1. "Check your privilege"
2. "Oh noes, what about the menz??" (obviously only applies if it's a white man)
 
2012-10-28 06:16:05 PM

theredsea1: Many Asians study constantly-12 hours a day. I bet if you compared apples to apples (whites and asians who study at the same rate) you'd find nearly matched success on tests.

Whites: study harder.



The study 12 hours a day thing is silly and Asians smirked for it is fair. Suppose someone said to be a bodybuilder, you have to lift 12 hours a day. They would be laughed out of the room. However, study 12 hours a day and people think it makes sense. Twiddling around for 12 hours isn't the right way, the right way to study intensely for a 4-5 hours at most per day. However, doesn't mean you can go have fun or do something else the rest of the day - you should be so exhausted after those 4-5 hours that all you can do is stare at the floor with unfocused glazed eyes. Sport science has advanced so far in giving us routines and training plans to achieve any goal, but for studying there is nothing but random unscientific suggestions that hardly ever work and studying 12-16 hours a day thing sounds to me like people saying do curls for 12 hours a day.
 
2012-10-28 06:17:42 PM

Marshal805: You never hear about anti-Asian sentiment as much as you do other prejudices.


Yellow, a book about what it's like to be Chinese in the USA, talked about this. Basically, he said that Asian-Americans are often thought of as a "model minority", which has some good things and bad things about it. He said that if an Asian experiences prejudice/discrimination, white folks won't pay attention because racism in the USA is thought of as a white vs. black thing, and Asians aren't really on the radar, and they should be.

And for the Asian schoolgirl part of the thread:
crow202.org
 
2012-10-28 06:19:28 PM

Fano: Vectron: Marshal805: You never hear about anti-Asian sentiment as much as you do other prejudices.



Their like the one group you can mock without being called on it.

I think everybody pretty much likes Asians. I don't really like the new Chinese arrivals. I think Japanese and white people are especially compatible. They have many fine qualities to admire.

Stats show it's a common interracial marriage, so there may be something to that.


It's a common interracial marriage for the same reason white men-Korean women are commonly intermarried. They are two Asian countries we have a large military presence (meaning young, single, lonely males), and the troops go off base to socialize, not patrol.
 
2012-10-28 06:22:00 PM

trekkiecougar: Buffet: Acceptance letter to a high school?? No such thing. You just go!
By the way, anyone know why they always wanna run around barefoot?
Them to me: Take off shoes befoe cumma in house/
Me to them: Fark no!

Think about it. When you're walking around outside you're walking on dirt, excrement, bugs, spittle, all kinds of nasty shiat. When you wear your outdoor shoes inside you're bringing in all of that nasty shiat on the soles of your shoe. Some time or another you're going to go barefoot inside, or have your baby crawling around on the floor. Wiping the shoes off with a floor mat doesn't get everything off.

Carpets don't have to be vacuumed as often, stay cleaner longer and floors don't have to be swept and mopped as often when the shoes are taken off at the door.

/can't stand a gritty floor!!!!


You make a valid point. I don't often wear mine inside. I USUALLY take 'em off in the garage. However if I have to dash back in momentarily, I'm not going through all that trouble. There are exceptions. They behave as if it's blasphemy, or some shiat?
Plus - I never request my houseguests to do so - that's Farkin' rude!
 
2012-10-28 06:37:49 PM

ThrobblefootSpectre: aesirx: are you sure math is not genetic?

You are getting very close to pissing off a lot of feminists. :-) I'm not saying I'm disagreeing with you. Just letting you know.


Being a woman, I'm pretty sure it is. But suggesting that the reason women don't go more for engineering and architecture and all that is because they don't like it is a good way to get your head bitten off by a lot of fierce women, so I never say that.
 
2012-10-28 06:49:54 PM

jayphat:

Umm, liberals in the 60's DID try to deny blacks the right to vote. Revisionist history is fun, yes?


No moron, southern democrats (dixiecrats) did. They were social conservatives, much like many republicans are now. In fact, many southern whites left the democratic party and joined the republican party (where they remain to this day) because a democrat president (from the south, no less) signed into law the rights of black people to vote and become full citizens of this country.
The liberals were down there marching and getting killed to make sure blacks had the right to vote.
All democrats have not been liberal, and all liberals have not been democrats.

Maybe you should actually learn some history before talking sh*t, dumbass.
 
2012-10-28 06:56:37 PM

aesirx: are you sure math is not genetic? I'm Asian and was insanely good at math. I mean, like, getting a 100% on a test when every other student scored 40%'s, literally. my brother and sister also excelled at computer science, but all of us were educated in America. our parents didn't even have that great of an education in China; by the time I was in like 7th grade, I was already surpassing them in academic ability.

And I have to second your point about math and confidence / connections. being able to answer every math question at the drop of a hat did wonderful things for me.



Gah! There are numerous research that shows that the human brain does not keep tabs on the skills it possesses. Suppose you got very good at math with lots of practice, your brain does not keep tabs on the practice and the only way to know your skill is to take a math test and see how much you score. There is no way for someone to just sit down and figure out how skilled they are and how they got there. So, acquiring the skill through lots of practice or through genetics feels exactly the same to the brain.

On a related note, for the future of your mathematics, if you perceive mathematical skill as innate, you are less likely to pursue harder mathematics in the future in contrast if you think that your mathematical skill is a result of effort. You will take easier classes to get 100%s so that you can reaffirm that you are good in mathematics. If you think you work hard in mathematics, you will take classes or attempt problems that will kick your ass and you will become better mathematician as a result. So, just your attitude might have strange consequences of how you attempt mathematics in the future.
 
2012-10-28 07:02:43 PM

Vectron: I think everybody pretty much likes Asians. I don't really like the new Chinese arrivals. I think Japanese and white people are especially compatible. They have many fine qualities to admire.


The general rule around here is that the whites, Japanese, and Koreans are integrated. There was some tension when the Koreans arrived to work on the factory lines. Also some tension when the Japanese auto companies moved in (as I'm in Michigan). However these days the Japanese are an accepted part of the auto industry (and less of douchebags than half the German manufacturers) so they're welcomed. As the Chinese arrive the general attitude is "Yeah they're running the dry cleaning for this generation, they'll be living beside us in the nice neighborhoods by the next one."

We actually have kind of the same thing NY has, where it is white and Asian vs black. Namely certain elements of the black community tried to get the Asians to take part in the whole "Whitey ruined Detroit!" thing and the Asian community wanted no part in that. The Asians moved into Ann Arbor and Oakland County with the white folk.

On the anecdotal note I once witnessed a fight where a black guy was screaming racist things at an Asian girl and two burly white autoworkers shut him up. Turned out the white dudes worked for an Asian parts supplier, so they had no issues with Asians, while the black guy was screaming about Asians being Uncle Toms and how minorities shouldn't be friends with white folk.

/our local white-black race relations are fairly farked up
 
2012-10-28 07:04:59 PM
My elementary school and high school were 1/3 Asian (mostly Korean).

Yes, they study harder generally than most other people. But the same could be said for the Jewish kids (which also was overrepresented in the AP classes).

Make of it what you will, but it drives me kind of bonkers when Asians aren't covered in affirmtive action because the are a "model minority". Either you are going to do affirmative action or you aren't, imho.

Mr. Right: My question is not why some ethnicities are more successful. My question is why is a school system able to make some schools elite and offer superior education not be able to bring all of their schools up to that level?


In an idealistic world this is true. But if you've ever spent time in a "bad" area, it becomes quite obvious that the needs of those students are different than the needs of middle and upper class kids.

My friend started a really great charity called Girl Meets World to teach underpriveledged girls (ages 10-14) about the skills they will need for the real world. I'm doing a presentation for the kids about professional etiquette. They never learned things like a handshake or making eye contact. That's what I'm teaching them. Others are working on nutrition (you'd be surprised how little they know) and another friend is teaching them about leadership in community organizing and so on and so forth. Now, some of these girls are very bright. If they were raised in a middle class home, they'd certainly be college bound. But low income girls don't have these type of women to look up to. They look forward (I'm not joking here) to get pregnant at 16 and live on the system for the rest of their lives. Now, I don't blame these kids as those choices are what they think is all they have. That is what they see in the world around them.

I would never have had to learn these very basic skills at my grade A public school because we learned these from the people AROUND us. Many low income people don't have that experience.

Hence, the education needed by lower income peoples is different from higher class kids. Are we accomplishing the education needs of the low income? Hell no. But offering a great education to the cream of the crop (of all income groups) we have done.

Particularly in NYC. My immigrant dad went to Stuyvesant and my mom went to Bronx High School of Science, both amazing public schools.
 
2012-10-28 07:06:03 PM

Gyrfalcon: Being a woman, I'm pretty sure it is. But suggesting that the reason women don't go more for engineering and architecture and all that is because they don't like it is a good way to get your head bitten off by a lot of fierce women, so I never say that.


My super engineer dad would bite your head off for that.

/he wanted me to be an engineer... I had no skills or interest
 
2012-10-28 07:12:46 PM
I wish I could find a sociology essay I wrote at Cal debunking the "Asian Model Minority" myth. At it's core it demonstrated that there were there distinct periods of immigration, resulting in three distinct family units. Further, it explored how the socio-economic status of recent immigrants had a much more significant effect on educational attainment than being in an asian family. Then again, if I posted my essay, would anyone read it?
 
2012-10-28 07:13:29 PM

danceswithcrows: And for the Asian schoolgirl part of the thread:


bless you...

All the rest of FARK has disappointed me.
 
2012-10-28 07:14:36 PM

Lollipop165: Gyrfalcon: Being a woman, I'm pretty sure it is. But suggesting that the reason women don't go more for engineering and architecture and all that is because they don't like it is a good way to get your head bitten off by a lot of fierce women, so I never say that.

My super engineer dad would bite your head off for that.

/he wanted me to be an engineer... I had no skills or interest


I've always believed that you don't go into engineering because you think it's a good idea, I think you become an engineer because you have to be an engineer and you were born that way.
 
2012-10-28 07:17:22 PM
How many of the kids that didn't make value sport or video games more than school? And how many of those schools buy new football uniforms but can't afford new science equipment?
 
2012-10-28 07:20:42 PM

Gyrfalcon: Being a woman, I'm pretty sure it is. But suggesting that the reason women don't go more for engineering and architecture and all that is because they don't like it is a good way to get your head bitten off by a lot of fierce women, so I never say that.


My older sister is uber old-school feminist. Beauty of motherhood, childbirth, tie dye rainbow shirts and free-range granola all the way. Uses her ivy league magna cum laude medical degree to do at home birth, for barter. She sees no conflict in celebrating all that is wonderful about femininity without having to tear down men.

I'm the engineer since early childhood, head always buried in a science book. She openly tells me, completely without malice, that she considers my life too "sterile", which I think is funny. While I think childbirth is icky and gross, which amuses her greatly. We have an mutual acceptance of our differences, while gently chiding each other. She can utterly destroy me at scrabble, and I could give her rook knight odds in chess and still dominate the game without trying. It's a cool yin yang. I just like making the occasional "woman driver" joke around her, to tease her a bit.

/no real point to any of this CSB, I suppose
/except maybe feminism doesn't have to be about being angry all the time
 
2012-10-28 07:23:28 PM

Uchiha_Cycliste: I wish I could find a sociology essay I wrote at Cal debunking the "Asian Model Minority" myth. At it's core it demonstrated that there were there distinct periods of immigration, resulting in three distinct family units. Further, it explored how the socio-economic status of recent immigrants had a much more significant effect on educational attainment than being in an asian family. Then again, if I posted my essay, would anyone read it?


I would read it. I do agree with the general pattern of immigration: I think of Caribbean and African immigrants that do well compared to people of African descent present here for years. Immigrants simply have drive and a reason to succeed.
 
2012-10-28 07:27:32 PM

Fano: I would read it. I do agree with the general pattern of immigration: I think of Caribbean and African immigrants that do well compared to people of African descent present here for years. Immigrants simply have drive and a reason to succeed.


I've never met more racist people against African Americans than recent African and Caribbean immigrants.
 
2012-10-28 07:40:17 PM

Uchiha_Cycliste: I wish I could find a sociology essay I wrote at Cal debunking the "Asian Model Minority" myth. [...] Then again, if I posted my essay, would anyone read it?


The number of people on Fark who'd read the whole essay would depend on the number of JPEGs of Asian models within the essay:
crow202.org
OTOH, if you were to take the essay and summarize it in 3 or 4 paragraphs, I think some folks would read the summary and maybe learn some stuff and/or be exposed to things they didn't always think about. Fark comments don't lend themselves to magnum opuses since we've all got really short attention sp ---SQUIRREL!
 
2012-10-28 07:53:24 PM

danceswithcrows: Uchiha_Cycliste: I wish I could find a sociology essay I wrote at Cal debunking the "Asian Model Minority" myth. [...] Then again, if I posted my essay, would anyone read it?

The number of people on Fark who'd read the whole essay would depend on the number of JPEGs of Asian models within the essay:
[crow202.org image 484x646]
OTOH, if you were to take the essay and summarize it in 3 or 4 paragraphs, I think some folks would read the summary and maybe learn some stuff and/or be exposed to things they didn't always think about. Fark comments don't lend themselves to magnum opuses since we've all got really short attention sp ---SQUIRREL!



I didn't read what you wrote but I would like to lock her up in my basement for a few years.
 
2012-10-28 07:54:05 PM

danceswithcrows: Uchiha_Cycliste: I wish I could find a sociology essay I wrote at Cal debunking the "Asian Model Minority" myth. [...] Then again, if I posted my essay, would anyone read it?

The number of people on Fark who'd read the whole essay would depend on the number of JPEGs of Asian models within the essay:
[crow202.org image 484x646]
OTOH, if you were to take the essay and summarize it in 3 or 4 paragraphs, I think some folks would read the summary and maybe learn some stuff and/or be exposed to things they didn't always think about. Fark comments don't lend themselves to magnum opuses since we've all got really short attention sp ---SQUIRREL!


I don't think I can summarize it like that, I'll try to find it and see what I can do .
 
2012-10-28 08:00:30 PM
Asians are 14% of the city's students but win 60% of the seats to elite high schools in a competitive exam. Do other ethnic groups A) Study harder, B) Learn from Asian culture, or C) File a lawsuit?


A certain group is X% of the population, but occupies Y% of the population in prisons.
Do they A) Stop breaking the law B) Take advantage of Educational Opportunities C) File lawsuits
 
2012-10-28 08:30:33 PM
I don't think I can find a soft-copy. God damnit...
 
2012-10-28 08:32:55 PM

Vectron: I didn't read what you wrote


That's OK; if you'd like to look at JPEGs instead of text, we have that too. (Possibly NSFW, depending.)

Uchiha_Cycliste: I don't think I can summarize it like that, I'll try to find it and see what I can do .


I think I'd read the essay whether it was summarized or a gigantic Wall-O-Text. I don't have a problem reading giant walls of text, though, and it seems like a bunch of other folks will say "TL; DR" when confronted with really long essays. YMMV I guess.
 
2012-10-28 08:47:33 PM

danceswithcrows: Vectron: I didn't read what you wrote

That's OK; if you'd like to look at JPEGs instead of text, we have that too. (Possibly NSFW, depending.)

Uchiha_Cycliste: I don't think I can summarize it like that, I'll try to find it and see what I can do .

I think I'd read the essay whether it was summarized or a gigantic Wall-O-Text. I don't have a problem reading giant walls of text, though, and it seems like a bunch of other folks will say "TL; DR" when confronted with really long essays. YMMV I guess.


Much thanks! Wasn't dissing what you wrote. Just immediately went into fantasy mode with that little girl.
 
2012-10-28 08:50:54 PM

danceswithcrows: That's OK; if you'd like to look at JPEGs instead of text, we have that too. (Possibly NSFW, depending.)


youmademesayit.com

Oh my lawd I... Holy... Uhmmm that's.... Uhh... Hurrrrrrr......
 
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