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(The New York Times)   Asians are 14% of the city's students but win 60% of the seats to elite high schools in a competitive exam. Do other ethnic groups A) Study harder, B) Learn from Asian culture, or C) File a lawsuit?   (nytimes.com) divider line 323
    More: Obvious, Brooklyn College, ethnicity, Duane Reades, exams, atomic whirl, high schools  
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12079 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Oct 2012 at 7:37 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-28 12:09:31 PM

dragonchild: Alleyoop: Eugenics has nothing to do with someone who refuses to improve themselves, Strawman.

Of course it doesn't. It has absolutely nothing to do with their attitude; it has everything to do with yours. Saying "fark 'em" in a public forum doesn't make these people vanish, unless you personally intrecon76end to see that they're "vanished". You'll still have to deal with them, one way or another. There is no Galt's Gulch.

The problem is that your opinion has no viable endgame. You can't completely insulate yourself from these people, and you have no intention of changing the situation. Some people have tried to "cleanse" them, with various definitions of "them", but this is a solution society generally finds distasteful, with good reason. So all you're really doing is being a smartass.


If I may interject. His case that you cannot help people who willing to help themselves still holds. What is your viable endgame? Lower standards with quotas, set asides and handouts? Does that become a permanent fix? At what stage to do we say well that is not working because all it has developed was a culture of entitlement and dependency?

The city offers free test test prep courses, do you force them to atttend?

FTA:The city began offering a free test-prep program several years ago for black and Hispanic students, but after a legal challenge, other ethnic groups were granted the same access to the course. Today, 43 percent of the students in the program are Asian.

Do you try and change a thug culture where academic achievement is viewed as "acting white"? (Why not acting asian?)

How do sell such a cultural change to groups that want to "preserve their culture"?
 
2012-10-28 12:15:32 PM
CSB

I went to Ohio State from 1999-2002 before I ran out of money and couldn't afford to go anymore. Studying engineering(i won't bother with the type). The vast majority of the kids in my class were from Asia. And they were smart as hell too. The white kids in my class along with myself you could tell came from the public education system and tried as hard as they could but just couldn't compete with the Asian kids. Now, with that in mind, there were probably 7 black students in the class. And this isn't a generalization, they paid no attention what so ever. 4 were kicked out for academic violations(copying each others work). The other 3 barely showed up to class and always complained after exams because of the scores they got on their tests. I asked one why he was there and he old me point blank "he had a free ride because he was black. He was gonna milk it til it was over". And here i thought it was to help people get ahead. Who knew, eh?
 
2012-10-28 12:17:15 PM

relcec: WhippingBoy: ComicBookGuy: Chariset: Wait: so white people want... affirmative action?

You are an idiot.

Give him break. Most modern "social justice" movements are based on the concept of "white privilege" . If this is concept is shown to be false (or even fundamentally flawed), then all those Master of Gender Studies degrees are essentially useless. Chariset is merely trying to perpetuate the "white privilege" stereotype and thus protect his educational investment.

sociology today often is cargo science
many practitioners are in fact antipositivists


Having gotten a (useless) MA in a field closely related to sociology...

You have no idea how right you are.

/fark college
 
2012-10-28 12:17:51 PM

jso2897: Chillax, everybody - the "effect" will be gone in one generation. The mediocrity of American culture conquers all.


*hack*. You just stop insulting us and being right there.
 
2012-10-28 12:21:16 PM

RodneyToady: Chariset: Wait: so white people want... affirmative action?

I don't think white people are leading the charge on this one.

There may be a hidden factor here as well. I don't think it's simply "Asian" vs. "not Asian." I think it's also "immigrant" vs "non-immigrant." While my parents (immigrant Sicilian father) didn't push me to take this test, they still pushed me hard to achieve academically. I got into the public Queens equivalent, and went to what is likely the best Catholic high school in the county (possibly the city). My friends, also children of immigrants, were pushed in much the same way. Race/ethnicity wasn't the driver... immigrant parents was.


Or like the poster the article quoted, other parents need to get more involved in their kids education process.

The kid down the street from us has one of che highest GPA averages in the local high school, his mother is Jamaican and she pushes him to study harder.
 
2012-10-28 12:21:33 PM

ObeliskToucher: theflatline: White men want a little china doll who well be quiet, tend the house, and not balloon into a loud mouthed elepephant with a tattoo on her calf and half his paycheck while she does nothing to contribute.

Guess how I can tell that you've never been married to one of those "quiet China dolls"?

/Quiet???
//But still hot!


My wife is from Colombia, I do believe I am married to the most quiet and demure woman in Latin America. However, when her and my sister in laws are together they are some loud as hell peeps.

Asians and Latins can be very loud, just even in general conversation.
 
2012-10-28 12:24:50 PM
"Race" exists as far as their being different distributions of alleles, repeats, polymorphisms, and mutations across the human genetic sequence, the same way there is variation in any large population of sexually reproducing organisms. Geographical separation and adaptation to specific physical and cultural environments (e.g., having dairy farming or not having it) generate these changes, not so much "competition." The more unique aspect of the human species is that it's the widest ranging single species, probably in the planet's history. However, human genomes don't actually differ that much from each other, dispersion of the current population was very recent, and we're unquestionably a single species, with uniform chromosomal arrangements and only incidentally varying biochemistry. Hell, chimpanzees may vary more than we do at the genome level, and they all look the same to most of us! There are other single species whose individuals are far more different -- look at dogs, which have become so differentiated thanks to human domestication and breeding.

Even though there are different *localized* populations with some genetic pattern differences (minor overall in importance, I assure you) and, pragmatically speaking, disease susceptibilities, this could often be variation WITHIN northern Europe, or WITHIN southern or western African. The point is that such divisions are generally poorly correlated with the standard racial constructs and attitudes of a certain region. "Race" is largely a cultural, social, and psychological concept -- if underlying biologies also vary, that should be taken for what it is: Standard and largely meaningless variation that, if anything, is good for the species as a whole because gene flow and genetic variation are adaptive. Culturally, *only when combined with variation in region, culture, and/or lifestyle* such variation helps to add diversity of perspective and experience and may promote flexible, more expanded thinking and creativity. These are the foundations upon which we have built the successes of the *human race*.
 
2012-10-28 12:27:45 PM

Buffet: Acceptance letter to a high school?? No such thing. You just go!
By the way, anyone know why they always wanna run around barefoot?
Them to me: Take off shoes befoe cumma in house/
Me to them: Fark no!


Think about it. When you're walking around outside you're walking on dirt, excrement, bugs, spittle, all kinds of nasty shiat. When you wear your outdoor shoes inside you're bringing in all of that nasty shiat on the soles of your shoe. Some time or another you're going to go barefoot inside, or have your baby crawling around on the floor. Wiping the shoes off with a floor mat doesn't get everything off.

Carpets don't have to be vacuumed as often, stay cleaner longer and floors don't have to be swept and mopped as often when the shoes are taken off at the door.

/can't stand a gritty floor!!!!
 
2012-10-28 12:28:56 PM
No real thread schiatting. Reasoned, funny comments. Well done.
.
 
2012-10-28 12:29:39 PM

Karma Crusade: "Race" exists as far as their being different distributions of alleles, repeats, polymorphisms, and mutations across the human genetic sequence, the same way there is variation in any large population of sexually reproducing organisms. Geographical separation and adaptation to specific physical and cultural environments (e.g., having dairy farming or not having it) generate these changes, not so much "competition." The more unique aspect of the human species is that it's the widest ranging single species, probably in the planet's history. However, human genomes don't actually differ that much from each other, dispersion of the current population was very recent, and we're unquestionably a single species, with uniform chromosomal arrangements and only incidentally varying biochemistry. Hell, chimpanzees may vary more than we do at the genome level, and they all look the same to most of us! There are other single species whose individuals are far more different -- look at dogs, which have become so differentiated thanks to human domestication and breeding.

Even though there are different *localized* populations with some genetic pattern differences (minor overall in importance, I assure you) and, pragmatically speaking, disease susceptibilities, this could often be variation WITHIN northern Europe, or WITHIN southern or western African. The point is that such divisions are generally poorly correlated with the standard racial constructs and attitudes of a certain region. "Race" is largely a cultural, social, and psychological concept -- if underlying biologies also vary, that should be taken for what it is: Standard and largely meaningless variation that, if anything, is good for the species as a whole because gene flow and genetic variation are adaptive. Culturally, *only when combined with variation in region, culture, and/or lifestyle* such variation helps to add diversity of perspective and experience and may promote flexible, more expanded thinking and creativity ...


See, jso2897, this is how you do it if you're not just trolling.
 
2012-10-28 12:32:40 PM
Back in my day, when white people owned everything, fair representation was gospel. Now that the shoe's on the other foot, suddenly everyone's all bootstrappy? Now that 60% of all college students are women, will we have affirmative action for men? Nah, fark 'em. It's not about equality or fairness, it's about what gets me mine.
 
2012-10-28 12:34:15 PM
The sometimes weak get ahead only by pulling down the strong.
 
2012-10-28 12:35:41 PM

Karma Crusade: "Race" exists as far as their being different distributions of alleles, repeats, polymorphisms, and mutations across the human genetic sequence, the same way there is variation in any large population of sexually reproducing organisms. Geographical separation and adaptation to specific physical and cultural environments (e.g., having dairy farming or not having it) generate these changes, not so much "competition." The more unique aspect of the human species is that it's the widest ranging single species, probably in the planet's history. However, human genomes don't actually differ that much from each other, dispersion of the current population was very recent, and we're unquestionably a single species, with uniform chromosomal arrangements and only incidentally varying biochemistry. Hell, chimpanzees may vary more than we do at the genome level, and they all look the same to most of us! There are other single species whose individuals are far more different -- look at dogs, which have become so differentiated thanks to human domestication and breeding.

Even though there are different *localized* populations with some genetic pattern differences (minor overall in importance, I assure you) and, pragmatically speaking, disease susceptibilities, this could often be variation WITHIN northern Europe, or WITHIN southern or western African. The point is that such divisions are generally poorly correlated with the standard racial constructs and attitudes of a certain region. "Race" is largely a cultural, social, and psychological concept -- if underlying biologies also vary, that should be taken for what it is: Standard and largely meaningless variation that, if anything, is good for the species as a whole because gene flow and genetic variation are adaptive. Culturally, *only when combined with variation in region, culture, and/or lifestyle* such variation helps to add diversity of perspective and experience and may promote flexible, more expanded thinking and creativity ...


Well, one gets yelled at when one points it out - people have a lot invested in the concept of "race" - but nobody who thinks race is a scientific concept seem to understand that they are making an affirmative assertion, and that the burden of proof falls upon them.
When asked to give a scientific definition of a "race", or to state how many "races" science recognizes, or what the proper taxonomic names and descriptions of those "races" are (and to provide citation from legitimate - read peer approved - sources) - they have no answer.
Genus Homo and species Sapiens is as far down as it goes - science has not been able to demonstrate any sub-speciation.
At that point, they generally inform me that I am a bleeding heart liberal and full of shiat, and that their grandaddy's science is good enough for them.

It's pretty predictable.
 
2012-10-28 12:35:41 PM
Here's why there's a fully justified lawsuit. Admission to the elite schools is based ONLY on a single exam, and that exam has shown little to no correlation to actual performance in the elite high school.

It would be like picking an NBA team based solely on how much you can bench-press. You will get a bunch of athletic people, but the skills you're picking off of are not the skills needed to do well once you're on the team.
 
2012-10-28 12:36:04 PM

hasty ambush: His case that you cannot help people who willing to help themselves still holds. What is your viable endgame? Lower standards with quotas, set asides and handouts?


Don't stuff a BS answer in my mouth. You don't need me for political masturbation and I'd rather not be used that way anyway.

hasty ambush: Do you try and change a thug culture where academic achievement is viewed as "acting white"?


Of course. More dramatic cultural change has been accomplished in history, but it does require political will. It's kind of hard to change culture with an antagonistic "fark 'em" approach.

Hey, maybe any given approach has only 1% chance of working, but the Randian solution has a 0% chance. Frankly it doesn't bother me all that much, but if it bothers you, I'm just sayin' the "fark it" prescription isn't all that successful at changing the status quo.
 
2012-10-28 12:36:40 PM
Oh course it's cultural that blacks and whites are falling behind south & east Asians. While their parents are pushing advance math and science classes white Christians are trying to dumb down education because Jesus can't stand critical thinking
 
2012-10-28 12:36:45 PM

Fano: The sometimes weak get ahead only by pulling down the strong.


This may be the best description I have seen about these "fairness" policies and the affect they have on society.
 
2012-10-28 12:36:57 PM

cman: Yeah, fark that.

Merit should never be the prime deciding factor. These Asian kids may be smarter than us white folk, and for that they need to have their intelligence groomed for better things. Forcing white/black/hispanic into these rooms just because they are not as represented is better for our future.


FTFY to remove your bullshiat. If anything, white people should receive affirmative action status out of consistency.

The US education system admits nearly everyone. No wonder it looks bad versus places that deny freedom by educationally speed-binning people into Alphas, Betas, Deltas, and Gammas. Account for that and the alleged "deficiencies" evaporate. But dont let facts get in the way of your PISA-test driven (and anti-American) philosophy.

Let them sue, be victorious, and gain access for Americans of all ethnicities.
 
2012-10-28 12:47:47 PM
People seem to forget that for every kid with sub-standard scores accepted due to Affirmative Action, there's a kid who's better qualified who didn't get to go to the college of their choice, or to go at all.

School admissions are a zero-sum game when you do it like that. Give someone a leg up, someone else gets burned. Why should the Asian students get punished because their parents pushed too many of them to study hard and succeed? I hope this lawsuit gets thrown right into the trash-can.
 
2012-10-28 12:52:28 PM
Let's combat racism by generalizing and being racist.

/sarcasm
 
2012-10-28 12:53:19 PM

Need_MindBleach: I hope this lawsuit gets thrown right into the trash-can.


FWIW, I'd be OK with that. I don't believe in lowering standards; I just don't like the arguments being thrown around in here. It's like Fark is one giant strawman echo chamber. It must be a day of the week that ends in "y".
 
2012-10-28 12:54:36 PM

duenor: I'll say something that few will admit, let alone support - at least those who work in education.

Low performing public schools aren't low performing because of teachers. Certainly, there are some lazy and uncaring ones, but the major reason why low performing public schools exist is because of the students.

Every student can learn - true. But when half of each year's academic time and energy is taken up convincing, cajoling, redirecting, and chasing those kids into participating positively, the education of all the other kids suffers horribly.

This is what needs to happen, if we want things to improve significantly (and not depend on martyred teachers who essentially sacrifice their own lives for no reward other than knowing they made a difference): kick underperforming kids out.

I'll say it again: kick underperforming kids out. I don't mean make them drop out, but establish trade schools and apprenticeship programs where these kids will fit in. Kids most often act up when they feel like things are too far above their head. Can't do any of the work, so might as well act up.

It doesn't have to be permanent. Let them study and test their way back into academic programs if they want to. In the same way, if they continue to act up and underperform in those alternative schools, send them to work details - sweeping floors, collecting trash. And if they act up in those, send them home. Doesn't matter if they are 18 or 8. But allow them to test back in, and provide free programs to help with that. Programs that not only provide tutoring, but breakfast and lunch and dinner.


Don't send them home that is where the problems start. Send the kids to work / reeducation camps, send the parents to coal or uranium mines.

Csb. My mom was not afraid to spank me for not doing or slacking at schoolwork. My brother lived with my dad who only asked him to try more. I got a degree from a very selective program. He barely graduated from highschool. I have never been out of work for even a day in the last 12 years, he has barely had a job. He killed himself drunk driving, I make alcohol for a living and always call a cab. Beatings for poor school performance ftw.
 
2012-10-28 12:55:58 PM

bifford: They can't afford tutoring for their kids? What, do they think Asian immigrants are all filthy rich? Do they think the owner of Ting's Laundromat wears a Rolex?


My thoughts exactly. Many of these families are working day and night to afford test prep and tutoring programs. They could only "afford" them because they worked their tails off in order to do so.
 
2012-10-28 01:03:51 PM

Mr. Right: ArkAngel: Mr. Right: My question is not why some ethnicities are more successful. My question is why is a school system able to make some schools elite and offer superior education not be able to bring all of their schools up to that level?

Because not every student is, or will ever be capable, of performing at top levels



So you're saying that schools have differing levels of instruction based on students' abilities? Doesn't sound very egalitarian. Isn't that a rehash of "separate but equal?" but based on elitism rather than racism and no more equal?


Separating large groups into smaller groups based on talent and skill is not only good, but logical. When you keep them all together, you have two choices: teach to the top (and have the bottom students quit trying) or teach to the bottom (and have the top students act out because they learned this stuff years ago and they are supremely bored).

So why don't these school districts make the superior schools the norm and set the same expectations for all students that the elite schools do and have remedial education facilities for that small percentage who truly can't keep up? Note in the article that it is the parents' expectations that are a primary driving force for the students; not IQ, socioeconomic status, race, or religion.. Be careful what you ask for; you might get it!

1. They don't have the money to do so.
2. Most students currently in the system don't have the desire/ability/work ethic to succeed in these schools. Getting them there would require years of training and work with both the students and the parents
3. They don't have enough of the best teachers. In NYC especially, shiatty teachers are shuffled around like the Old Maid and end up at the worst schools because no one else wants to teach there and they can be lost in the bureaucracy.

In the business world, Eli Goldratt posited "Show me how an employee is measured, I will tell you how he performs." The corollary to that is "Measure them irrationally and they will perform irrationally." Is there any doubt that our children respond to measurements any differently? And meeting parental expectations is a performance measure for children.

I agree that there are many different ways to measure students' performance (and that none is perfect), but standardized test scores are the best and the fairest. Since all students are tested and graded the same (to discount grade inflation), everyone is equal, and not hampered or helped by going to a crappy/great school. Also, it's been shown (in SUNY, of all places), that those with higher scores on the SAT help predict college graduation rates.

Link

It's not only intelligence that is required in these elite schools, it's drive and hard work. The amount of prep that is required for these tests is a good indicator of who can succeed in these schools.
 
2012-10-28 01:10:42 PM

Karma Crusade: "Race" exists as far as their being different distributions of alleles, repeats, polymorphisms, and mutations across the human genetic sequence, the same way there is variation in any large population of sexually reproducing organisms. [...]


This sentence and the rest of your paragraphs make valid points. They may be too complex and have too many big words for the general population to understand, though.

Something from Anthro 101 in college said, "Race is a cultural construct," and as far as I can tell, that's correct. (Most Americans would see Ainu as Japanese, but most Japanese would see Ainu as non-Japanese.) Humans seem to have a natural instinct to split themselves up into groups, then behave badly towards other humans who aren't in the group they themselves are in. If everybody had the same skin color, we'd start classifying based on eye color, or classifying based on where you go to church, or whether you were a Yankees fan.

It's probably impossible to get rid of this splitting up into tribes/cliques/whatever behavior. I wonder if it's possible to get people to form tribes/cliques based on things that are more productive/useful than ethnicity.
 
2012-10-28 01:12:41 PM


White men marry asian women, you don't see a lot of white women marrying asian men.



I have three white female friends who married Asian guys.

Please try again later.
 
2012-10-28 01:14:54 PM
Learning to coast off of others in group work is proably more indicative I'm sure

RminusQ: Here's why there's a fully justified lawsuit. Admission to the elite schools is based ONLY on a single exam, and that exam has shown little to no correlation to actual performance in the elite high school.

It would be like picking an NBA team based solely on how much you can bench-press. You will get a bunch of athletic people, but the skills you're picking off of are not the skills needed to do well once you're on the team.

 
2012-10-28 01:15:57 PM
Wow, so Americans are now complaining that Asian parents drive their kids to excel instead of letting them sit around the TV eating twinkies. No wonder China owns us.
 
2012-10-28 01:16:00 PM
The city began offering a free test-prep program several years ago for black and Hispanic students, but after a legal challenge, other ethnic groups were granted the same access to the course. Today, 43 percent of the students in the program are Asian.

Every time liberals try to do something nice for a favored group, somebody has to screw it up by demanding equal treatment. What a pain.
 
2012-10-28 01:24:58 PM

jso2897: bmihura: jso2897: ronaprhys: jso2897: Chillax, everybody - the "effect" will be gone in one generation. The mediocrity of American culture conquers all.

Members of the species actually belong to two separate genders. They do not, in fact, belong to separate, taxonomically distinct "races". Put simply - gender exists - race doesn't.
Science, biatches. The 21st century kind.


So if there are no races, then there cannot be any racism, by definition.
 
2012-10-28 01:33:31 PM
Why isn't this an asian schoolgirl thread?

jaggermafia.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-10-28 01:41:01 PM

jjorsett: Every time liberals try to do something nice for a favored group, somebody has to screw it up by demanding equal treatment. What a pain.


Ain't it though? It's almost like giving specific, favored people special exemptions to the laws that burden everyone else is called "corruption."

/at least by the people that aren't being given special exemptions
//the people who do benefit consider it "just recognition of our superiority"
///true justice is blind, "social justice" is not
 
2012-10-28 01:41:54 PM
graphics8.nytimes.com
I'd study it..
 
2012-10-28 01:42:53 PM

Gdalescrboz: We had those values. We called them Christian values.


And like everything else in Christianity, they just ripped off someone else's idea wholesale and presented it as their own. And then fail to live up to it, if the home-schooled mouth-breathers coming out of Christian households are any indication.
 
2012-10-28 01:46:49 PM
Give them a generation. They are the first generation after immigration. Historically the hardest workers for the past w hundred years. Wit for the next one, when the parents are rich. It will be more useless than growing up in Scottsdale.
 
2012-10-28 01:47:22 PM

jjorsett: The city began offering a free test-prep program several years ago for black and Hispanic students, but after a legal challenge, other ethnic groups were granted the same access to the course. Today, 43 percent of the students in the program are Asian.

Every time liberals try to do something nice for a favored group, somebody has to screw it up by demanding equal treatment. What a pain.


Yeah, like when liberals wanted to let pharmacists of a favored group deny filling prescriptions they disagreed with based on religious belief. Or when liberals wanted to deny gays the right to get married for the sake of a favored group's religious belief. Or when liberals wanted to stop women from gaining the right to vote, or blacks the right to vote, or blacks the right to anything. Damn liberals, always trying to cater to a favored group. When will they ever learn, amirite?
 
2012-10-28 01:53:24 PM

Mid_mo_mad_man: Oh course it's cultural that blacks and whites are falling behind south & east Asians. While their parents are pushing advance math and science classes white Christians are trying to dumb down education because Jesus can't stand critical thinking


LeGnome: Back in my day, when white people owned everything, fair representation was gospel. Now that the shoe's on the other foot, suddenly everyone's all bootstrappy? Now that 60% of all college students are women, will we have affirmative action for men? Nah, fark 'em. It's not about equality or fairness, it's about what gets me mine.



BeerGraduate: Let's combat racism by generalizing and being racist.

/sarcasm


Or condense it down to gentile White People are Bad. Everything they have ever done has been unfair. They were nothing but bible thumping plantation owners that sat around drinking mint julips while slaves built America. America is nothing but a racist hellhole and we should all be ashamed of our grandparents, great granparents, etc.

That's some fine edumacation you got there, Lou.
 
2012-10-28 01:54:27 PM
Easy fix: include an essay component. Asians are great at memorizing tests, but original thinking? Not so much.
 
2012-10-28 01:57:38 PM

ObeliskToucher: theflatline: White men want a little china doll who well be quiet, tend the house, and not balloon into a loud mouthed elepephant with a tattoo on her calf and half his paycheck while she does nothing to contribute.

Guess how I can tell that you've never been married to one of those "quiet China dolls"?

/Quiet???
//But still hot!


Chinese are known to be the loudest asians. A common expression in asia for some who speaks loudly is that they are "as loud as a Chinese house"

My girlfriend is Lao and is when their family is together they are so quiet it's almost excruciatingly painful to try and listen to their conversations. Often I might be spacing out at the dinner table and suddenly realize somebody is speaking to me and they just asked me a question and I couldn't even hear it.
 
2012-10-28 02:01:35 PM

cman: Yeah, fark that.

Merit alone should be the deciding factor. These Asian kids may be smarter than us white folk, and for that they need to have their intelligence groomed for better things. Forcing white/black/hispanic into these rooms just because they are not as represented is idiotic for our future.


Yeah, god forbid minorities spend time studying or working hard for an education instead of robbing a 7 eleven or filing lawsuits.

Responsibility for our own actions, how the fark does it work?
 
2012-10-28 02:01:53 PM

cman: jso2897: Fish in a Barrel: jso2897: Put simply - gender exists - race doesn't.
Science, biatches. The 21st century kind.

Of course race exists. We humans are not immune to evolution. There are differences between populations that have been geographically separated for thousands of years. That's basic biology, and to pretend otherwise is to subvert science for politics. If that's your "21st century science," then I don't want it. I'll stick to the old evidence based one.

LemSkroob: jso2897: Put simply - gender exists - race doesn't.
Science, biatches. The 21st century kind.

If races arent more than just skin color, how are sicentists able to look at something like a bone a blood sample and tell the race of the person, if after all, we are "all the same on the inside"

Each race is in fact a different breed of animal. Very closely related yes, but different.

About the level of responses I expected.
Yawn.

If race does not exist then why do scientists say it do?


forums-cdn.appleinsider.com
 
2012-10-28 02:03:19 PM

ChuDogg: cman: jso2897: Fish in a Barrel: jso2897: Put simply - gender exists - race doesn't.
Science, biatches. The 21st century kind.

Of course race exists. We humans are not immune to evolution. There are differences between populations that have been geographically separated for thousands of years. That's basic biology, and to pretend otherwise is to subvert science for politics. If that's your "21st century science," then I don't want it. I'll stick to the old evidence based one.

LemSkroob: jso2897: Put simply - gender exists - race doesn't.
Science, biatches. The 21st century kind.

If races arent more than just skin color, how are sicentists able to look at something like a bone a blood sample and tell the race of the person, if after all, we are "all the same on the inside"

Each race is in fact a different breed of animal. Very closely related yes, but different.

About the level of responses I expected.
Yawn.

If race does not exist then why do scientists say it do?

[forums-cdn.appleinsider.com image 288x396]


I will be the first to admit that my grasp of English can be low, especially when I am using a virtual keyboard on my iPad, which makes typing far more difficult
 
2012-10-28 02:08:06 PM

stiletto_the_wise: [graphics8.nytimes.com image 650x508]
I'd study it..


Check the caption on that picture, dude: "Kassidi Cheng, 12, is in test-prep classes..."

Now go have a seat right over there.
 
2012-10-28 02:10:29 PM

RminusQ: Here's why there's a fully justified lawsuit. Admission to the elite schools is based ONLY on a single exam, and that exam has shown little to no correlation to actual performance in the elite high school.


You can complain about the exam all you want but the fact is any object measure of academic achievement is not going to get them the results they want. They will want racial set asides, or proxy racial set asides like using zip codes or what elementary school they graduated from, so they are not judged by the same standards as the other students.
 
2012-10-28 02:12:55 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: jjorsett: The city began offering a free test-prep program several years ago for black and Hispanic students, but after a legal challenge, other ethnic groups were granted the same access to the course. Today, 43 percent of the students in the program are Asian.

Every time liberals try to do something nice for a favored group, somebody has to screw it up by demanding equal treatment. What a pain.

Yeah, like when liberals wanted to let pharmacists of a favored group deny filling prescriptions they disagreed with based on religious belief. Or when liberals wanted to deny gays the right to get married for the sake of a favored group's religious belief. Or when liberals wanted to stop women from gaining the right to vote, or blacks the right to vote, or blacks the right to anything. Damn liberals, always trying to cater to a favored group. When will they ever learn, amirite?


Umm, liberals in the 60's DID try to deny blacks the right to vote. Revisionist history is fun, yes?
 
2012-10-28 02:15:34 PM
The Bell Curve (1994) stated that the average IQ of African Americans was 85, Latino 89, White 103, Asian 106, and Jews 113. Asians score relatively higher on visuospatial than on verbal subtests. The few Amerindian populations who have been systematically tested, including Arctic Natives, tend to score worse on average than white populations but better on average than black populations.

The book was controversial and this may be imprecise. but it plays out rather like what one observes in the real world. Of course there are individual deviations but the book mentions that.

As this is Fark, that last sentence will be ignored and all sorts of individual deviations and annecdotes will be cited as proof the theory is incorrect.
 
2012-10-28 02:18:42 PM

Fish in a Barrel: stiletto_the_wise: [graphics8.nytimes.com image 650x508]
I'd study it..

Check the caption on that picture, dude: "Kassidi Cheng, 12, is in test-prep classes..."

Now go have a seat right over there.


Uhh, that's why I only said I'd study it. Anyway, this thread did not turn out like I had hoped...
 
2012-10-28 02:24:11 PM

Vectron: The Bell Curve (1994) stated that the average IQ of African Americans was 85, Latino 89, White 103, Asian 106, and Jews 113. Asians score relatively higher on visuospatial than on verbal subtests. The few Amerindian populations who have been systematically tested, including Arctic Natives, tend to score worse on average than white populations but better on average than black populations.

The book was controversial and this may be imprecise. but it plays out rather like what one observes in the real world. Of course there are individual deviations but the book mentions that.

As this is Fark, that last sentence will be ignored and all sorts of individual deviations and annecdotes will be cited as proof the theory is incorrect.


I actually happen to have exactly three friends that defy that observation.

Please try again later.
 
2012-10-28 02:25:50 PM
enchantedasianangels.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-10-28 02:25:56 PM

ChuDogg: Vectron: The Bell Curve (1994) stated that the average IQ of African Americans was 85, Latino 89, White 103, Asian 106, and Jews 113. Asians score relatively higher on visuospatial than on verbal subtests. The few Amerindian populations who have been systematically tested, including Arctic Natives, tend to score worse on average than white populations but better on average than black populations.

The book was controversial and this may be imprecise. but it plays out rather like what one observes in the real world. Of course there are individual deviations but the book mentions that.

As this is Fark, that last sentence will be ignored and all sorts of individual deviations and annecdotes will be cited as proof the theory is incorrect.

I actually happen to have exactly three friends that defy that observation.

Please try again later.



Oh, 3 whole friends. My isn't that scientific.
 
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