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(The New York Times)   Asians are 14% of the city's students but win 60% of the seats to elite high schools in a competitive exam. Do other ethnic groups A) Study harder, B) Learn from Asian culture, or C) File a lawsuit?   (nytimes.com) divider line 323
    More: Obvious, Brooklyn College, ethnicity, Duane Reades, exams, atomic whirl, high schools  
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12081 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Oct 2012 at 7:37 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



323 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-10-27 08:59:09 PM
D) Beat up all the Asian kids.
 
2012-10-27 09:26:05 PM
Wait: so white people want... affirmative action?
 
2012-10-27 10:22:20 PM

Chariset: Wait: so white people want... affirmative action?


I don't think white people are leading the charge on this one.

There may be a hidden factor here as well. I don't think it's simply "Asian" vs. "not Asian." I think it's also "immigrant" vs "non-immigrant." While my parents (immigrant Sicilian father) didn't push me to take this test, they still pushed me hard to achieve academically. I got into the public Queens equivalent, and went to what is likely the best Catholic high school in the county (possibly the city). My friends, also children of immigrants, were pushed in much the same way. Race/ethnicity wasn't the driver... immigrant parents was.
 
2012-10-28 07:12:14 AM
Yeah, fark that.

Merit alone should be the deciding factor. These Asian kids may be smarter than us white folk, and for that they need to have their intelligence groomed for better things. Forcing white/black/hispanic into these rooms just because they are not as represented is idiotic for our future.
 
2012-10-28 07:40:12 AM
Reverse racism isn't racism.
 
2012-10-28 07:43:30 AM

Chariset: Wait: so white people want... affirmative action?


Yeah, +10 points for white kids cuz WWII.
 
2012-10-28 07:45:42 AM
OK, but how did they do on their drivers exam, huh?

That's what I want to know
 
2012-10-28 07:45:44 AM
Link to "Please log in" page. WTF, subby?
 
2012-10-28 07:46:04 AM
Please Log In
 
2012-10-28 07:50:44 AM
Oh, after a few refreshed I got it to load.

RodneyToady:
There may be a hidden factor here as well. I don't think it's simply "Asian" vs. "not Asian." I think it's also "immigrant" vs "non-immigrant."


Yeah, the Brain Gain is a pretty sweet deal for the most part.
If even 1% of Chinese people are smart, there's 14 million to choose from.

We could also create our own by having good public schools, but that sounds like a bother.
 
2012-10-28 07:51:11 AM

BarkingUnicorn: D) Beat up all the Asian kids.


That's a nice thought, but you'd get Kung Fu'd to death real quick.
 
2012-10-28 07:51:23 AM
This is the "American Dream" immigrants speak of. You move to this country for the opportunity to achieve success not attainable in your home country. It's not a guarantee. You still have to put forth some effort to achieve your dreams.
 
2012-10-28 07:53:22 AM

cman: Yeah, fark that.

Merit alone should be the deciding factor. These Asian kids may be smarter than us white folk, and for that they need to have their intelligence groomed for better things. Forcing white/black/hispanic into these rooms just because they are not as represented is idiotic for our future.


I see no harm in this as long as the other kids go to ya know maybe separate but maybe better or heck at least equal schools.
 
2012-10-28 07:54:47 AM
sorry if that didn't make sense i was like slipping as i typed it
 
2012-10-28 07:55:49 AM
Acceptance letter to a high school?? No such thing. You just go!
By the way, anyone know why they always wanna run around barefoot?
Them to me: Take off shoes befoe cumma in house/
Me to them: Fark no!
 
182
2012-10-28 07:57:26 AM

RodneyToady: Chariset: Wait: so white people want... affirmative action?

I don't think white people are leading the charge on this one.


of course not, they would rather get the benefits of being a majority.
 
2012-10-28 07:59:17 AM
The NAACP filed suit and Bloomberg told them that there was no need, because the tests were not designed with ethnicity in mind, but to ferret out the best and the brightness. Bloomberg smackdown in hymietown!
 
2012-10-28 07:59:47 AM
"blacks and Hispanics" are not leading anything.

It's their lawyers.
 
2012-10-28 08:00:59 AM

crab66:


While asian kids study the white kids spend their time making image macros and posting to reddit.
 
2012-10-28 08:02:28 AM

from my blood: "blacks and Hispanics" are not leading anything.

It's their lawyers.


And by "their lawyers" I mean asshats who found them and offered to represent them.


Watch as the American legal system spirals itself down to a hole in the round.
 
2012-10-28 08:02:54 AM

God-is-a-Taco: Oh, after a few refreshed I got it to load.

RodneyToady:
There may be a hidden factor here as well. I don't think it's simply "Asian" vs. "not Asian." I think it's also "immigrant" vs "non-immigrant."

Yeah, the Brain Gain is a pretty sweet deal for the most part.
If even 1% of Chinese people are smart, there's 14 million to choose from.

We could also create our own by having good public schools, but that sounds like a bother.


Actually that is a very good point, especially if pure talent plays more of a role than good schools.

If you had a choice of personally being in charge of reforming the school system or instead simply allowing smart people to come to the USA, I think the answer as to which one would be far easier to accomplish would be obvious.

Note though, that these talented people are excelling in our school system, so maybe its not such a bad system after all. The cream will always rise to the top.
 
2012-10-28 08:05:11 AM

from my blood: "blacks and Hispanics" are not leading anything.

It's their lawyers.


Blacks usually call in the hispanics so they can say "look we are not the only people of color complaining." while the truth be told hispanics generally aren't attention whores in this manner, only in their dress, loud music, and modification of their cars.
 
2012-10-28 08:07:09 AM
my browser hates that link
 
2012-10-28 08:09:12 AM
seemslegit.com
 
2012-10-28 08:10:56 AM

IamKaiserSoze!!!: OK, but how did they do on their drivers exam, huh?

That's what I want to know

Comment+Cofee+Nose+Keyboard= +1 Internet for you!
 
2012-10-28 08:11:06 AM

theflatline: from my blood: "blacks and Hispanics" are not leading anything.

It's their lawyers.

Blacks usually call in the hispanics so they can say "look we are not the only people of color complaining." while the truth be told hispanics generally aren't attention whores in this manner, only in their dress, loud music, and modification of their cars.



lol.

But again. It's the lawyers ( and political advisers) who give voice to the 'black' opinion. There are better words to describe this group of people.
 
2012-10-28 08:11:52 AM
of course they have more asians, because just like their food, they are less filling, so you you gotta double and triple up.
 
2012-10-28 08:12:14 AM

martid4: [seemslegit.com image 750x600]


southpawbeagle.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-10-28 08:14:47 AM
Let those who perform well academically get the competitive academic positions. Ugh. Why do racists always have to make everything in the universe about race?
 
2012-10-28 08:15:26 AM
They can't afford tutoring for their kids? What, do they think Asian immigrants are all filthy rich? Do they think the owner of Ting's Laundromat wears a Rolex?
 
2012-10-28 08:15:36 AM

RodneyToady: Chariset: Wait: so white people want... affirmative action?

I don't think white people are leading the charge on this one.

There may be a hidden factor here as well. I don't think it's simply "Asian" vs. "not Asian." I think it's also "immigrant" vs "non-immigrant." While my parents (immigrant Sicilian father) didn't push me to take this test, they still pushed me hard to achieve academically. I got into the public Queens equivalent, and went to what is likely the best Catholic high school in the county (possibly the city). My friends, also children of immigrants, were pushed in much the same way. Race/ethnicity wasn't the driver... immigrant parents was.


Its more liberal entitlements.
 
2012-10-28 08:15:54 AM

Chariset: Wait: so white people want... affirmative action?


Oops, you might want to read the article first.
 
2012-10-28 08:16:18 AM
Farking NYTimes and their stupid login/pay wall. Ain't never gonna happen, nosirree
 
2012-10-28 08:17:08 AM
I teach at a private high school in Korea. My students typically don't get home from studying til around 10 or 11 pm. They don't necessarily use that time 100% efficiently, but they undeniably work way harder than some American kid who thinks anyone in the world with give a damn about whether he was good at sports or not when he graduates.
 
2012-10-28 08:17:49 AM
Maybe blacks should learn to google. Google asian lifestyle and why asians advance.

And watch more movies. Ann Rand: Atlas Shrugged (in theaters now!)

And PLEASE don't say "see we need mo govmint!" Because that is exactly the opposite what u suppoz to lurnd!
 
2012-10-28 08:19:42 AM
We have to try harder to get these Asian kids addicted to the things that make American kids so great, like Xbox games, rap music, Honey Boo Boo, McDonalds extra value extra large sacks of yummyness, etc.
 
2012-10-28 08:20:23 AM
Let me break it down for yall.

What would you choose as a more pleasant past time. I will let you fill in the ethnic blanks.

Sitting on the stoop burning a blunt and looking at phat azzes or studying?

Sitting in your card burning a joint looking at chicas con culazos. or studying?

Working in mom and pops 110 degree laundry/kitchen looking at girls with no asses or reading a book in a quiet air conditioned library?

It is hardly any wonder why asian kids rise to the top. I blame it on lack of good weed and flat asses.
 
2012-10-28 08:21:01 AM
Wonder what happens when a black, white and asian move to Mexico and has to learn Spanish....

Do they provide special education for immigrants?
Do they give special education to for-ners?
 
2012-10-28 08:24:12 AM
Login?

Can someone post the article here?
 
2012-10-28 08:24:15 AM

kendelrio: IamKaiserSoze!!!: OK, but how did they do on their drivers exam, huh?

That's what I want to know
Comment+Cofee+Nose+Keyboard= +1 Internet for you!


And the fact I misspelled "coffee" is just.... awesome....
**facepalm**
/preview is my FRIEND
 
2012-10-28 08:27:56 AM

pvrhye: I teach at a private high school in Korea. My students typically don't get home from studying til around 10 or 11 pm. They don't necessarily use that time 100% efficiently, but they undeniably work way harder than some American kid who thinks anyone in the world with give a damn about whether he was good at sports or not when he graduates.


Yeah, I teach Taiwanese students English after their regular school. My last class ends at 8:00 pm. They're not smarter, more focused, more driven, or more anything really than American kids, other than they work harder. And 100% of that is because their parents set high expectations.
 
2012-10-28 08:29:27 AM

from my blood: Wonder what happens when a black, white and asian move to Mexico and has to learn Spanish....

Do they provide special education for immigrants?
Do they give special education to for-ners?


Asians speaking Spanish is perhaps one of the funniest yet nails on a chalkboard sounds at the same time.
 
2012-10-28 08:32:26 AM

RodneyToady: There may be a hidden factor here as well. I don't think it's simply "Asian" vs. "not Asian." I think it's also "immigrant" vs "non-immigrant." While my parents (immigrant Sicilian father) didn't push me to take this test, they still pushed me hard to achieve academically. I got into the public Queens equivalent, and went to what is likely the best Catholic high school in the county (possibly the city). My friends, also children of immigrants, were pushed in much the same way. Race/ethnicity wasn't the driver... immigrant parents was.


Yep, that's the issue.

... and I'd be pissed off as well especially if after spending grades k-6 in the NYPS, Some immigrants brought their kids over and crammed him for two years and then he landed in the best school in NYC.

... basically Ting Shi's father decided he could stay because his son got to cut in line.

... and a lot of this is also about class.While we think of 'immigrants' as being poor, this isn't necessarily the case. Owning a business as a immigrant doesn't mean that the boy's parents were working for the previous owner and earned it. It means that they took a ball of money that they made (or borrowed from family and friends) and bought the business. They also were able to discharge their son's care to their parents. This is a total commitment to the success of the child. I suspect this may be a cultural value, but it's also certainly indicative of the attitude of middle-class people.

I think the serious matter to be considered is that children of extraordinary tenacity and ability who develop in the NYPS system may still fall behind their middle-class peers who come into the system with resources, and that the school system designed to improve the fate of inner-city youth by giving them a way out of poverty is instead being used by people who may love america but are seen as 'newcomers' and 'interlopers'.
 
2012-10-28 08:33:17 AM

ThrobblefootSpectre: Let those who perform well academically get the competitive academic positions. Ugh. Why do racists always have to make everything in the universe about race?


If the exams are only focused on Math and Reading, then it's not an academic test.
 
2012-10-28 08:34:46 AM
is it taboo to suggest that different cultures have different values?
 
2012-10-28 08:34:49 AM

theflatline: from my blood: Wonder what happens when a black, white and asian move to Mexico and has to learn Spanish....

Do they provide special education for immigrants?
Do they give special education to for-ners?

Asians speaking Spanish is perhaps one of the funniest yet nails on a chalkboard sounds at the same time.


CSB:
On one of the boats I work on we have a Russian galley-hand and a Honduran BR hand. Their grasp of the English language is tenuous at best. Listening to them have a conversation is pretty awesome when you try to figure out what they are saying to each other.

Before you get on your high horses, I have learned some Russian from Irena and Mahine and I converse in Spanish occasionally, so I am making an effort to be multicultural.

/Baigamana Apa Kabar?
//Kabar baik! 
/// End CSB
 
2012-10-28 08:35:30 AM

rubi_con_man: ThrobblefootSpectre: Let those who perform well academically get the competitive academic positions. Ugh. Why do racists always have to make everything in the universe about race?

If the exams are only focused on Math and Reading, then it's not an academic test.


You're right. Reading doesn't really belong in academics. It's too subjective.
 
2012-10-28 08:36:43 AM

daveUSMC: is it taboo to suggest that different cultures have different values?


Yes, it is. It's also taboo to suggest that parents pass their cultural values down to their children, who pass them along to their children, etc.
 
2012-10-28 08:38:04 AM

Cobataiwan: God-is-a-Taco: Oh, after a few refreshed I got it to load.

RodneyToady:
There may be a hidden factor here as well. I don't think it's simply "Asian" vs. "not Asian." I think it's also "immigrant" vs "non-immigrant."

Yeah, the Brain Gain is a pretty sweet deal for the most part.
If even 1% of Chinese people are smart, there's 14 million to choose from.

We could also create our own by having good public schools, but that sounds like a bother.

Actually that is a very good point, especially if pure talent plays more of a role than good schools.

If you had a choice of personally being in charge of reforming the school system or instead simply allowing smart people to come to the USA, I think the answer as to which one would be far easier to accomplish would be obvious.

Note though, that these talented people are excelling in our school system, so maybe its not such a bad system after all. The cream will always rise to the top.


Well said.

It's amazing that our crappy system produces some pretty smart asian kids.

Can't have anything to do with the parents I suppose. More teachers is the solution.
 
2012-10-28 08:38:17 AM
[notthisshiatagain.jpg]

Comes up every couple of years.

/Stuy alum
//plenty of my classmates were poor as f--k
 
2012-10-28 08:38:59 AM

shotglasss: We have to try harder to get these Asian kids addicted to the things that make American kids so great, like Xbox games, rap music, Honey Boo Boo, McDonalds extra value extra large sacks of yummyness, etc.


Korea's StarCraft competition was bigger than most football games in the US....

And they don't play around with bad software. Blizzard's Seoul offices were raided by Korean authorities this week because of complaints to the country's Fair Trade Commission that the company would not issue refunds to players unhappy with the game

While Americans whine and cry "the game is no good I lost my money" and the criminal officials release rapists back into the community, while chasing some 13yo who downloaded a Spiderman torrent. Throw his grandma in PRISON!

OUR LEGAL SYSTEM IS SHIAT. LAWYERS ARE GARBAGE! Public "officials" founder around lying and cheating and we get nowhere.

Except to hear another racist thread.
 
2012-10-28 08:40:37 AM

daveUSMC: is it taboo to suggest that different cultures have different values?


I see that as an obvious factual observation. But yes, some obvious factual observations are taboo.
 
2012-10-28 08:41:36 AM

dittybopper: daveUSMC: is it taboo to suggest that different cultures have different values?

Yes, it is. It's also taboo to suggest that parents pass their cultural values down to their children, who pass them along to their children, etc.


Exactly.

"fark working in pops laundry mat all my life, I am get to cracking these books and do something to help my family rise above"

"fark selling this weed, I am going to sling some powder and gets mines, maybe throw my auntie some endz for doing my laundry"

"fark cutting grass all my life, I am gonna send cash home to moms to buy a little house and start a little busines back in the homeland"
 
2012-10-28 08:46:13 AM

Chariset: Wait: so white people want... affirmative action?




Want to know how I know you weren't intelligent enough to read the article?


///Popcorn anyone?
 
2012-10-28 08:47:01 AM

from my blood: shotglasss: We have to try harder to get these Asian kids addicted to the things that make American kids so great, like Xbox games, rap music, Honey Boo Boo, McDonalds extra value extra large sacks of yummyness, etc.

Korea's StarCraft competition was bigger than most football games in the US....

And they don't play around with bad software. Blizzard's Seoul offices were raided by Korean authorities this week because of complaints to the country's Fair Trade Commission that the company would not issue refunds to players unhappy with the game

While Americans whine and cry "the game is no good I lost my money" and the criminal officials release rapists back into the community, while chasing some 13yo who downloaded a Spiderman torrent. Throw his grandma in PRISON!

OUR LEGAL SYSTEM IS SHIAT. LAWYERS ARE GARBAGE! Public "officials" founder around lying and cheating and we get nowhere.

Except to hear another racist thread.


Step away from the coffee pot . Now!
 
2012-10-28 08:47:44 AM
I wonder what the numbers are for single parents' kids vs. two parent households.

Or maybe a family income comparison, I mean the article says the kid was tutored for $200/month.

Then, they should run a urinalysis test on all the test takers.
 
2012-10-28 08:47:46 AM
I'll just leave this here.
img266.imageshack.us
 
2012-10-28 08:48:28 AM

IamKaiserSoze!!!: It's amazing that our crappy system produces some pretty smart asian kids.


Except it isn't . The student in this article spent two out of 8 years in an American school and got into the best school in the country.

This tells me that two years of total dedication (along with what was probably a solid nutritionally and emotionally and economically stable youth) is enough.

In this case, the obstacles that many face in immigration (cultural isolation and linguistic limitations) may be boons, as they keep the child focused and away from distracting influences.
 
2012-10-28 08:48:55 AM
Oh Noes damn immigrants, it's like someone put out a sign asking for the tired, poor, etc...
 
2012-10-28 08:51:06 AM
WTF. It thought all these exams were cultural bias in favor of the white man who designed the test. How are these Asians slipping through our net of lies and trickery ?

For decades Black leaders and others told us there were inherent racist elements in testing. How western -Caucasian people approach problems . Africans were more verbal with a rich history of oral history....and bunch of other pseudo intellectual bullshiate passed around the table with babble head nodding whites agreeing.

And in the background the Asians were winning spelling bee's with parents who barley spoke English.
MIT became known as Made In Taiwan....on and on while this myth of flawed testing was pass on to the public.

White people love Asians. Hell look at that the intermarriage rates. Much less positive cultural images.
You farkers need to get pass the "white " in all the root cause of problems.

Unlike Al Sharpton (MSNBC host) who many time called them "interlopers" and countless attacks on Korean grocery stores in the hood.

Maybe you can talk the Asian immigrants to break up their families and have the kids raised by single mothers and absent fathers. Then make sure to teach them that success is selling out their own and acting white. Then we can get those test scores down

Or we can just scream white racism and adjust the numbers to guaranteeing an quota in schools and business.

//sick of Travis Smiley types and their stupid excuses for destructive behavior.
 
2012-10-28 08:56:09 AM

rubi_con_man: IamKaiserSoze!!!: It's amazing that our crappy system produces some pretty smart asian kids.

Except it isn't . The student in this article spent two out of 8 years in an American school and got into the best school in the country.

This tells me that two years of total dedication (along with what was probably a solid nutritionally and emotionally and economically stable youth) is enough.

In this case, the obstacles that many face in immigration (cultural isolation and linguistic limitations) may be boons, as they keep the child focused and away from distracting influences.


Visit the campus of UC Berkley and tell me what you see.
 
2012-10-28 08:58:31 AM
fta: Several students said their parents did not shy away from corporal punishment as a means of motivating them.

Less carrot, more stick, huh?
 
2012-10-28 08:59:53 AM

God-is-a-Taco: We could also create our own by having good public schools, but that sounds like a bother.


Since these kids are all coming from public elementary and middle schools it sounds like they are getting a good public education. The only difference between these poor Asian immigrants kids and our homegrown black and hispanic ones is that they are taking advantage of their public education and working hard to succeed.
 
2012-10-28 09:00:13 AM

Dr.Mxyzptlk.: WTF. It thought all these exams were cultural bias in favor of the white man who designed the test. How are these Asians slipping through our net of lies and trickery ?

For decades Black leaders and others told us there were inherent racist elements in testing. How western -Caucasian people approach problems . Africans were more verbal with a rich history of oral history....and bunch of other pseudo intellectual bullshiate passed around the table with babble head nodding whites agreeing.

And in the background the Asians were winning spelling bee's with parents who barley spoke English.
MIT became known as Made In Taiwan....on and on while this myth of flawed testing was pass on to the public.

White people love Asians. Hell look at that the intermarriage rates. Much less positive cultural images.
You farkers need to get pass the "white " in all the root cause of problems.

Unlike Al Sharpton (MSNBC host) who many time called them "interlopers" and countless attacks on Korean grocery stores in the hood.

Maybe you can talk the Asian immigrants to break up their families and have the kids raised by single mothers and absent fathers. Then make sure to teach them that success is selling out their own and acting white. Then we can get those test scores down

Or we can just scream white racism and adjust the numbers to guaranteeing an quota in schools and business.

//sick of Travis Smiley types and their stupid excuses for destructive behavior.


White men marry asian women, you don't see a lot of white women marrying asian men.

White men want a little china doll who well be quiet, tend the house, and not balloon into a loud mouthed elepephant with a tattoo on her calf and half his paycheck while she does nothing to contribute.
 
2012-10-28 09:03:29 AM
FTA: Ting Shi said his first two years in the United States were wretched. He slept in a bunk bed in the same room with his grandparents and a cousin in Chinatown, while his parents lived on East 89th Street, near a laundromat where they endured 12-hour shifts. He saw them only on Sundays.

[...]

The afternoon his acceptance letter to Stuyvesant High School arrived in the mail, he and his parents gathered at the laundromat, the smell of detergent and the whirl of the washing machines filling the air. "Everyone was excited," Ting recalled.
Ting's father said he felt rejuvenated, and now dismissed the idea of returning: "I thought: the next generation will have a good future," he said.
That's the thing with Asians [Australia], and the wave of post-WWII Italian, Greek, and Yugoslav immigrants. The first generation of new Australians worked damned bloody hard and made huge sacrifices with the goal of setting up their children's futures.


A heck of a lot of immigrants from other ethnicities want to be PLAYAZ as soon as they get off the boat.

"Where's all da free money at?"
 
2012-10-28 09:05:37 AM
Asian mothers demand more of their children.
www.all4ed.org  
i2.kym-cdn.com
 
2012-10-28 09:07:08 AM

Apologies for my previous abortion of a comment.

FTA: Ting Shi said his first two years in the United States were wretched. He slept in a bunk bed in the same room with his grandparents and a cousin in Chinatown, while his parents lived on East 89th Street, near a laundromat where they endured 12-hour shifts. He saw them only on Sundays.

[...]

The afternoon his acceptance letter to Stuyvesant High School arrived in the mail, he and his parents gathered at the laundromat, the smell of detergent and the whirl of the washing machines filling the air. "Everyone was excited," Ting recalled.

Ting's father said he felt rejuvenated, and now dismissed the idea of returning: "I thought: the next generation will have a good future," he said.


That's the thing with Asians [in Australia], and the wave of post-WWII Italian, Greek, and Yugoslav immigrants before them. The first generation of new Australians worked damned bloody hard.

A heck of a lot of immigrants from other ethnicities want to be PLAYAS as soon as they get off the boat.

"Where's all da free money at?"
 
2012-10-28 09:13:47 AM
the smell of detergent and the whirl of the washing machines filling the air

i was wondering what it would have smelled like in the laundromat, and if anything was whirling during this gathering. but now i'm a bit suspicious - did the reporter specifically question people who were at this gathering about the smells and whirling? was the reporter present and describing his own experience? the article doesn't say, and without a specific statement from at least one of the people present i'm inclined to believe that it probably smelled like chinese food.

please, newspapers, stop hiring people with creative writing degrees who failed at writing books.
 
2012-10-28 09:15:53 AM
On the bright side Blacks and Hispanics excel at getting into prison. Everyone is good at something.
 
xcv
2012-10-28 09:27:50 AM
Good timing for this lawsuit. NY's fire fighter test was ruled to be racist by a judge and he just ordered promotions (and several years retro pay at the salary of the higher rank) for black and hispanics that didn't score high enough on the written tests.
 
2012-10-28 09:32:21 AM
my son is married to an asain girl from hong kong. she is 24 and has a MBA. her little sister is 20 and in a chemistry PHD program.


/ son, like me is a dumbass
// but we mary good ( my wife has PHD)
///SLASHIES!
 
2012-10-28 09:33:33 AM

KrispyKritter: Link to "Please log in" page. WTF, subby?


Agreed.

Bad subby
 
2012-10-28 09:34:22 AM

blueknight: my son is married to an asain girl from hong kong. she is 24 and has a MBA. her little sister is 20 and in a chemistry PHD program.


/ son, like me is a dumbass
// but we mary good ( my wife has PHD)
///SLASHIES!


Is she a hottie? How about her younger sister?
 
2012-10-28 09:36:33 AM
All your school are belong to us.

When I went to one of these schools (was notified of acceptance via our principal), there were a lot of Jewish and Greek kids, a few Hispanics and Eric Holder.

Asians came later.
 
2012-10-28 09:38:29 AM
So am I free to assume that those who would file suit have never uttered the words, "America rewards hard work. You need to earn your way, not expect the government to hand you everything?"
 
2012-10-28 09:44:57 AM

theflatline: White men marry asian women, you don't see a lot of white women marrying asian men.

White men want a little china doll who well be quiet, tend the house, and not balloon into a loud mouthed elepephant with a tattoo on her calf and half his paycheck while she does nothing to contribute.


This is because, until menopause, Asian women stay hawt. Asian men, OTOH, have wee little peeners. No white girl is going to want that. Plus, with as fat as they get he'd have to tie a 2x4 to his ass to keep from getting sucked in.
 
2012-10-28 09:45:50 AM

edmo: So am I free to assume that those who would file suit have never uttered the words, "America rewards hard work. You need to earn your way, not expect the government to hand you everything?"


Well, if you believe that how can you vote for Obama?
 
2012-10-28 09:46:22 AM
I would suggest to the whiners filing the lawsuits that they would benefit their people by learning from example, but I would be called a racist again, so fark 'em, let them keep falling behind. Let some other fool help someone who won't help themselves.

BTW, this link to TFA seems to work: Link 
 
2012-10-28 09:47:16 AM
Chillax, everybody - the "effect" will be gone in one generation. The mediocrity of American culture conquers all.
 
2012-10-28 09:47:45 AM
img.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-28 09:51:07 AM
Fark, 50 years behind on the science of standardized tests.
 
2012-10-28 09:54:49 AM

Dr.Mxyzptlk.: Unlike Al Sharpton (MSNBC host) who many time called them "interlopers" and countless attacks on Korean grocery stores in the hood.


Why even bring up one of the most blatant and outspoken racists of our time, on the most biased propaganda outlet in the U.S? It is counterproductive.
 
2012-10-28 09:56:13 AM

jso2897: Chillax, everybody - the "effect" will be gone in one generation. The mediocrity of American culture conquers all.


It probably takes about 2-3 generations for it to truly die off, but the problem* is that we can still get a lot of first generation people here. If the best, brightest, and/or most motivated are the ones that come here and leave their shiatty country, we can expect that they'll work hard and motivate their kids. When those kids grow up and succeed, they'll still have the grandparents around to help drive those ideals into their children. However, it's this group that will, after being fully-exposed to the entitlement mentality that permeates Americans, want "better" for their children. Those kids will have everything handed to them and end up being fully Americanized. They'll get degrees in psychology or other liberal arts - but fully expect to make as much as an engineer or chemist.
 
2012-10-28 09:57:24 AM

cman: Yeah, fark that.

Merit alone should be the deciding factor. These Asian kids may be smarter than us white folk, and for that they need to have their intelligence groomed for better things. Forcing white/black/hispanic into these rooms just because they are not as represented is idiotic for our future.


Yes! Merit alone should be the deciding factor. If an Asian kid is smarter than me, then he/she gets the job or whatever.
 
2012-10-28 09:58:58 AM

ronaprhys: jso2897: Chillax, everybody - the "effect" will be gone in one generation. The mediocrity of American culture conquers all.

It probably takes about 2-3 generations for it to truly die off, but the problem* is that we can still get a lot of first generation people here. If the best, brightest, and/or most motivated are the ones that come here and leave their shiatty country, we can expect that they'll work hard and motivate their kids. When those kids grow up and succeed, they'll still have the grandparents around to help drive those ideals into their children. However, it's this group that will, after being fully-exposed to the entitlement mentality that permeates Americans, want "better" for their children. Those kids will have everything handed to them and end up being fully Americanized. They'll get degrees in psychology or other liberal arts - but fully expect to make as much as an engineer or chemist.


Exactly - the reason these kids are "smarter" than ours are cultural - and in three generations, they'll be as dumb and lazy as the rest of us.
Of course some people have a need to believe that the so-called "races" differ on some intrinsic level, but you aren't going to educate them, and i don't argue with them.
 
2012-10-28 10:00:44 AM

ThrobblefootSpectre: Dr.Mxyzptlk.: Unlike Al Sharpton (MSNBC host) who many time called them "interlopers" and countless attacks on Korean grocery stores in the hood.

Why even bring up one of the most blatant and outspoken racists of our time, on the most biased propaganda outlet in the U.S? It is counterproductive.


Because there are enough idiots who take that bloated piece of shiat seriously that he needs to be mocked so much that anyone quoting him is completely discounted from the get-go.
 
2012-10-28 10:02:38 AM

jso2897: Exactly - the reason these kids are "smarter" than ours are cultural - and in three generations, they'll be as dumb and lazy as the rest of us.
Of course some people have a need to believe that the so-called "races" differ on some intrinsic level, but you aren't going to educate them, and i don't argue with them.


Absolutely true - when we only see the best, brightest, or most motivated then we're going to get a self-fulfilling prophecy. But never we should never let facts get in the way of something like this. If we did that, our entire entitlement system would have to be shiat-canned.
 
2012-10-28 10:05:53 AM

jso2897: ronaprhys: jso2897: Chillax, everybody - the "effect" will be gone in one generation. The mediocrity of American culture conquers all.

It probably takes about 2-3 generations for it to truly die off, but the problem* is that we can still get a lot of first generation people here. If the best, brightest, and/or most motivated are the ones that come here and leave their shiatty country, we can expect that they'll work hard and motivate their kids. When those kids grow up and succeed, they'll still have the grandparents around to help drive those ideals into their children. However, it's this group that will, after being fully-exposed to the entitlement mentality that permeates Americans, want "better" for their children. Those kids will have everything handed to them and end up being fully Americanized. They'll get degrees in psychology or other liberal arts - but fully expect to make as much as an engineer or chemist.

Exactly - the reason these kids are "smarter" than ours are cultural - and in three generations, they'll be as dumb and lazy as the rest of us.
Of course some people have a need to believe that the so-called "races" differ on some intrinsic level, but you aren't going to educate them, and i don't argue with them.


Oh, races are the same? Are males and females the same, too? I wish to subscribe to your Californian newsletter.
 
2012-10-28 10:05:54 AM

ThrobblefootSpectre: Dr.Mxyzptlk.: Unlike Al Sharpton (MSNBC host) who many time called them "interlopers" and countless attacks on Korean grocery stores in the hood.

Why even bring up one of the most blatant and outspoken racists of our time, on the most biased propaganda outlet in the U.S? It is counterproductive.


Yeah - I generally regard him as being beneath mention. He reminds me of Fred Phelps - a man who actually believes nothing at all, except that he, Al Sharpton, should continue to live without effort.
I wouldn't call him a racist - a racist actually holds a system of belief, however idiotic.
Sharpton is happy to manipulate people of all races and creeds to achieve his ends - which center around self-promotion.
 
2012-10-28 10:06:29 AM

from my blood: "blacks and Hispanics" are not leading anything.

It's their lawyers.


Coopers by the democrat party. The party if whining and mooching.
 
2012-10-28 10:06:41 AM

BronyMedic: martid4: [seemslegit.com image 750x600]

[southpawbeagle.files.wordpress.com image 330x395]


Solly, I aporigize if I upset you.
 
2012-10-28 10:07:19 AM

bmihura: jso2897: ronaprhys: jso2897: Chillax, everybody - the "effect" will be gone in one generation. The mediocrity of American culture conquers all.

It probably takes about 2-3 generations for it to truly die off, but the problem* is that we can still get a lot of first generation people here. If the best, brightest, and/or most motivated are the ones that come here and leave their shiatty country, we can expect that they'll work hard and motivate their kids. When those kids grow up and succeed, they'll still have the grandparents around to help drive those ideals into their children. However, it's this group that will, after being fully-exposed to the entitlement mentality that permeates Americans, want "better" for their children. Those kids will have everything handed to them and end up being fully Americanized. They'll get degrees in psychology or other liberal arts - but fully expect to make as much as an engineer or chemist.

Exactly - the reason these kids are "smarter" than ours are cultural - and in three generations, they'll be as dumb and lazy as the rest of us.
Of course some people have a need to believe that the so-called "races" differ on some intrinsic level, but you aren't going to educate them, and i don't argue with them.

Oh, races are the same? Are males and females the same, too? I wish to subscribe to your Californian newsletter.


I'll take strawmen for $200, Alex.
 
2012-10-28 10:08:03 AM
Hmm. Perhaps it is time to close our borders. Let these immigrants fix their own countries instead of fleeing.
Also love TFAs spin on what has been previously called outright racism in academia. Just wow. It is like sometimes there is this massive gorilla in the room but no one wants to talk about it... for centuries.
 
2012-10-28 10:09:25 AM

bmihura: jso2897: ronaprhys: jso2897: Chillax, everybody - the "effect" will be gone in one generation. The mediocrity of American culture conquers all.

It probably takes about 2-3 generations for it to truly die off, but the problem* is that we can still get a lot of first generation people here. If the best, brightest, and/or most motivated are the ones that come here and leave their shiatty country, we can expect that they'll work hard and motivate their kids. When those kids grow up and succeed, they'll still have the grandparents around to help drive those ideals into their children. However, it's this group that will, after being fully-exposed to the entitlement mentality that permeates Americans, want "better" for their children. Those kids will have everything handed to them and end up being fully Americanized. They'll get degrees in psychology or other liberal arts - but fully expect to make as much as an engineer or chemist.

Exactly - the reason these kids are "smarter" than ours are cultural - and in three generations, they'll be as dumb and lazy as the rest of us.
Of course some people have a need to believe that the so-called "races" differ on some intrinsic level, but you aren't going to educate them, and i don't argue with them.

Oh, races are the same? Are males and females the same, too? I wish to subscribe to your Californian newsletter.


Members of the species actually belong to two separate genders. They do not, in fact, belong to separate, taxonomically distinct "races". Put simply - gender exists - race doesn't.
Science, biatches. The 21st century kind.
 
2012-10-28 10:11:31 AM

AMonkey'sUncle: All your school are belong to us.

When I went to one of these schools (was notified of acceptance via our principal), there were a lot of Jewish and Greek kids, a few Hispanics and Eric Holder.

Asians came later.


Pretty much this. 60+ years ago all the fuss was about Jews, who were the immigrants of the day whose culture encouraged studying. Now that immigrant demographics have shifted, it's the Asians. Same deal, only this time flat-out quotas aren't encouraged.

/Welcome to America, folks. Hope you stick around and help make us great.
 
2012-10-28 10:12:12 AM

Macular Degenerate: Farking NYTimes and their stupid login/pay wall. Ain't never gonna happen, nosirree


Screw NYTimes. There should be some rule against posting such nonsense.
 
2012-10-28 10:14:58 AM
My question is not why some ethnicities are more successful. My question is why is a school system able to make some schools elite and offer superior education not be able to bring all of their schools up to that level?
 
2012-10-28 10:17:04 AM

Mr. Right: My question is not why some ethnicities are more successful. My question is why is a school system able to make some schools elite and offer superior education not be able to bring all of their schools up to that level?


because there arent enough elite students?
 
2012-10-28 10:17:57 AM
Too bad testing doesn't do anything but find the people who can memorize or test well. But who needs ingenuity?
 
2012-10-28 10:18:36 AM

edmo: So am I free to assume that those who would file suit have never uttered the words, "America rewards hard work. You need to earn your way, not expect the government to hand you everything?"


Where exactly does your false choice fallacy leave people who benefited from hard work AND social welfare?

Alleyoop: let them keep falling behind. Let some other fool help someone who won't help themselves.


This attitude doesn't change the situation unless you seriously intend to implement a eugenics program. Otherwise they're still your problem.
 
2012-10-28 10:18:36 AM

thisisarepeat: Chariset: Wait: so white people want... affirmative action?

Yeah, +10 points for white kids cuz WWII.


What else did you expect from Obama's America?
 
2012-10-28 10:21:50 AM
The city began offering a free test-prep program several years ago for black and Hispanic students, but after a legal challenge, other ethnic groups were granted the same access to the course. Today, 43 percent of the students in the program are Asian. Three years ago, Ting Shi was one of them.

Hmmmmm

Others take issue with the exam on philosophical grounds. "You shouldn't have to prep Sunday to Sunday, to get into a good high school," said Melissa Santana, a legal secretary whose daughter Dejanellie Falette has been prepping this fall for the exam. "That's extreme."

I bet I know someone's whose daughter isn't getting in.
 
2012-10-28 10:22:43 AM

theflatline: from my blood: Wonder what happens when a black, white and asian move to Mexico and has to learn Spanish....

Do they provide special education for immigrants?
Do they give special education to for-ners?

Asians speaking Spanish is perhaps one of the funniest yet nails on a chalkboard sounds at the same time.


Yes, because all Asians have accents, right?
 
2012-10-28 10:28:04 AM

shotglasss: BarkingUnicorn: D) Beat up all the Asian kids.

That's a nice thought, but you'd get Kung Fu'd to death real quick.


Nah, we've been doing it in the Philly schools for years.

/srsly
//Feds had to get involved because the SD was so blatant regarding their favoritism with Black on Asian violence
 
2012-10-28 10:29:02 AM
Chariset: Wait: so white people want... affirmative action?

You are an idiot.
 
2012-10-28 10:35:14 AM

ComicBookGuy: Chariset: Wait: so white people want... affirmative action?

You are an idiot.


Give him break. Most modern "social justice" movements are based on the concept of "white privilege" . If this is concept is shown to be false (or even fundamentally flawed), then all those Master of Gender Studies degrees are essentially useless. Chariset is merely trying to perpetuate the "white privilege" stereotype and thus protect his educational investment.
 
2012-10-28 10:41:56 AM

ThrobblefootSpectre: Dr.Mxyzptlk.: Unlike Al Sharpton (MSNBC host) who many time called them "interlopers" and countless attacks on Korean grocery stores in the hood.

Why even bring up one of the most blatant and outspoken racists of our time, on the most biased propaganda outlet in the U.S? It is counterproductive.


Thought it was a good of example of what passes for lack of integrity and reliable source of information when it comes to such matters.
 
2012-10-28 10:52:01 AM

WhippingBoy: ComicBookGuy: Chariset: Wait: so white people want... affirmative action?

You are an idiot.

Give him break. Most modern "social justice" movements are based on the concept of "white privilege" . If this is concept is shown to be false (or even fundamentally flawed), then all those Master of Gender Studies degrees are essentially useless. Chariset is merely trying to perpetuate the "white privilege" stereotype and thus protect his educational investment.


sociology today often is cargo science
many practitioners are in fact antipositivists
 
2012-10-28 10:55:06 AM
So..... when it's a majority of Asians accomplishing something it's because they work harder. When it's a majority of caucasians accomplishing something the system is skewed and rigged to be unfair?
 
2012-10-28 10:56:32 AM
Ok I'll bite. Why are some schools in NYC held to one standard while the rest are held to a different one? The solution isn't affirmative action, the solution is to bring the low standard schools up to the "excellent" standard.
 
2012-10-28 10:57:33 AM

Alleyoop: Let some other fool help someone who won't help themselves.


dragonchild: This attitude doesn't change the situation unless you seriously intend to implement a eugenics program. Otherwise they're still your problem.


Eugenics has nothing to do with someone who refuses to improve themselves, Strawman. People with entitlement attitudes are reproducing quite efficiently without my help.
 
2012-10-28 11:02:55 AM

WhippingBoy: If this is concept is shown to be false (or even fundamentally flawed), then all those Master of Gender Studies degrees are essentially useless


From the looks of your "argument," you seem to have a GED in Gender Studies yourself. Because you've never heard of "model minority" forms of racism, it seems.
 
2012-10-28 11:03:02 AM
lewismarktwo: Too bad testing doesn't do anything but find the people who can memorize or test well. But who needs ingenuity?

Anybody who want to keep a non-shiatty job for more than a few days?
 
2012-10-28 11:04:49 AM
Shakespeer said, the first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
 
2012-10-28 11:07:38 AM

rohar: Ok I'll bite. Why are some schools in NYC held to one standard while the rest are held to a different one? The solution isn't affirmative action, the solution is to bring the low standard schools up to the "excellent" standard.


the actual solution would be to somehow increase the proportion of two parent families that actually give a shiat about the kids they are banging out relative two the number of single parent or uncaring parents that are pumping out kids.
that could create entire communities that give a f*ck. the problem is cultural values, and the solution won't be found in increasing expenditure or raising standards.
 
2012-10-28 11:11:54 AM
'Losing Ground'

Great book.
 
2012-10-28 11:16:06 AM

daveUSMC: is it taboo to suggest that different cultures have different values?


Yes, and you should feel bad.
 
2012-10-28 11:17:57 AM

megalynn44: So..... when it's a majority of Asians accomplishing something it's because they work harder. When it's a majority of caucasians accomplishing something the system is skewed and rigged to be unfair?


Exactly.
 
2012-10-28 11:18:53 AM

jso2897: ThrobblefootSpectre: Dr.Mxyzptlk.: Unlike Al Sharpton (MSNBC host) who many time called them "interlopers" and countless attacks on Korean grocery stores in the hood.

Why even bring up one of the most blatant and outspoken racists of our time, on the most biased propaganda outlet in the U.S? It is counterproductive.

Yeah - I generally regard him as being beneath mention. He reminds me of Fred Phelps - a man who actually believes nothing at all, except that he, Al Sharpton, should continue to live without effort.
I wouldn't call him a racist - a racist actually holds a system of belief, however idiotic.
Sharpton is happy to manipulate people of all races and creeds to achieve his ends - which center around self-promotion.


Now, now, you shouldn't say that Rev. Al Sharpton wishes to live a wealthy lifestyle without effort. The man's entire existence is based upon his addiction to being a fringe celebrity, and he puts an enormous amount of effort into being the biggest racially charged attention whore he can possibly be. If life were a card game, he'd be walking laps around the table (not actually playing of course, that implies personal risk) waiting for somebody to even consider playing the race card so he can swoop in, make a ridiculous speech, and have money and praise thrown at him by people who actually believe the verbal diarrhea that spews from his lips.
 
2012-10-28 11:19:15 AM

wellreadneck: fta: Several students said their parents did not shy away from corporal punishment as a means of motivating them.

Less carrot, more stick, huh?


Carrots are barely tolerated by children. If you really want to motivate, use a donut.
 
2012-10-28 11:19:45 AM
Relcec
2012-10-28 11:07:38 AM
rohar: Ok I'll bite. Why are some schools in NYC held to one standard while the rest are held to a different one? The solution isn't affirmative action, the solution is to bring the low standard schools up to the "excellent" standard.

the actual solution would be to somehow increase the proportion of two parent families that actually give a shiat about the kids they are banging out relative two the number of single parent or uncaring parents that are pumping out kids.
that could create entire communities that give a f*ck. the problem is cultural values, and the solution won't be found in increasing expenditure or raising standards.


We had those values. We called them Christian values. But America has spent the last 50 years destroying Christrian values and look what has happened.
 
2012-10-28 11:21:17 AM

Mr. Right: My question is not why some ethnicities are more successful. My question is why is a school system able to make some schools elite and offer superior education not be able to bring all of their schools up to that level?


Because not every student is, or will ever be capable, of performing at top levels
 
2012-10-28 11:24:26 AM

bifford: They can't afford tutoring for their kids? What, do they think Asian immigrants are all filthy rich? Do they think the owner of Ting's Laundromat wears a Rolex?


What? You don't know about the Laundromat Trust? Those plutocrats use thousand dollar bills to light their cigars.
 
2012-10-28 11:28:38 AM

jso2897: Put simply - gender exists - race doesn't.
Science, biatches. The 21st century kind.


Of course race exists. We humans are not immune to evolution. There are differences between populations that have been geographically separated for thousands of years. That's basic biology, and to pretend otherwise is to subvert science for politics. If that's your "21st century science," then I don't want it. I'll stick to the old evidence based one.
 
2012-10-28 11:30:15 AM
I'll say something that few will admit, let alone support - at least those who work in education.

Low performing public schools aren't low performing because of teachers. Certainly, there are some lazy and uncaring ones, but the major reason why low performing public schools exist is because of the students.

Every student can learn - true. But when half of each year's academic time and energy is taken up convincing, cajoling, redirecting, and chasing those kids into participating positively, the education of all the other kids suffers horribly.

This is what needs to happen, if we want things to improve significantly (and not depend on martyred teachers who essentially sacrifice their own lives for no reward other than knowing they made a difference): kick underperforming kids out.

I'll say it again: kick underperforming kids out. I don't mean make them drop out, but establish trade schools and apprenticeship programs where these kids will fit in. Kids most often act up when they feel like things are too far above their head. Can't do any of the work, so might as well act up.

It doesn't have to be permanent. Let them study and test their way back into academic programs if they want to. In the same way, if they continue to act up and underperform in those alternative schools, send them to work details - sweeping floors, collecting trash. And if they act up in those, send them home. Doesn't matter if they are 18 or 8. But allow them to test back in, and provide free programs to help with that. Programs that not only provide tutoring, but breakfast and lunch and dinner.
 
2012-10-28 11:30:37 AM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: bifford: They can't afford tutoring for their kids? What, do they think Asian immigrants are all filthy rich? Do they think the owner of Ting's Laundromat wears a Rolex?

What? You don't know about the Laundromat Trust? Those plutocrats use thousand dollar bills to light their cigars.


And THERE's the Ancient Chinese Secrettm
 
2012-10-28 11:30:37 AM
study harder, darkies.
 
2012-10-28 11:32:53 AM

jso2897: Put simply - gender exists - race doesn't.
Science, biatches. The 21st century kind.


If races arent more than just skin color, how are sicentists able to look at something like a bone a blood sample and tell the race of the person, if after all, we are "all the same on the inside"

Each race is in fact a different breed of animal. Very closely related yes, but different.
 
2012-10-28 11:33:58 AM

KobaSauce: theflatline: from my blood: Wonder what happens when a black, white and asian move to Mexico and has to learn Spanish....

Do they provide special education for immigrants?
Do they give special education to for-ners?

Asians speaking Spanish is perhaps one of the funniest yet nails on a chalkboard sounds at the same time.

Yes, because all Asians have accents, right?


Ones off the boat do.Not everyone is Alberto Fujimori. And even if you are born stateside and tend to live in all asian hood, you tend to have a bit of an accent.

Latinos are guilty of this too. You can tell an West Coast US born latino from a Texas US born Latino quite easily, as you can tell a South Florida latino from a New York latino, all in the accent.

/call me the Professor Henry Higgins of Spictography. I can teach a Puerto Rican how to sound Mexican.
 
2012-10-28 11:34:09 AM

Day_Old_Dutchie: I'll just leave this here.


She's addicted to workahol!
 
2012-10-28 11:34:25 AM

duenor: I'll say something that few will admit, let alone support - at least those who work in education.

Low performing public schools aren't low performing because of teachers. Certainly, there are some lazy and uncaring ones, but the major reason why low performing public schools exist is because of the students.

Every student can learn - true. But when half of each year's academic time and energy is taken up convincing, cajoling, redirecting, and chasing those kids into participating positively, the education of all the other kids suffers horribly.

This is what needs to happen, if we want things to improve significantly (and not depend on martyred teachers who essentially sacrifice their own lives for no reward other than knowing they made a difference): kick underperforming kids out.

I'll say it again: kick underperforming kids out. I don't mean make them drop out, but establish trade schools and apprenticeship programs where these kids will fit in. Kids most often act up when they feel like things are too far above their head. Can't do any of the work, so might as well act up.

It doesn't have to be permanent. Let them study and test their way back into academic programs if they want to. In the same way, if they continue to act up and underperform in those alternative schools, send them to work details - sweeping floors, collecting trash. And if they act up in those, send them home. Doesn't matter if they are 18 or 8. But allow them to test back in, and provide free programs to help with that. Programs that not only provide tutoring, but breakfast and lunch and dinner.


Never. Gonna. Happen.

What exactly do you think's gonna happen when you tell little Braeden or LaShawn's parent that he's not "good enough" for school?
 
2012-10-28 11:34:32 AM
I bet $100 that most of those "white" kids are from Eastern Europe and was not born here
/The Polish(barely speaking English) kids here use to whip our ass good in math
 
2012-10-28 11:35:58 AM

Fish in a Barrel: jso2897: Put simply - gender exists - race doesn't.
Science, biatches. The 21st century kind.

Of course race exists. We humans are not immune to evolution. There are differences between populations that have been geographically separated for thousands of years. That's basic biology, and to pretend otherwise is to subvert science for politics. If that's your "21st century science," then I don't want it. I'll stick to the old evidence based one.


LemSkroob: jso2897: Put simply - gender exists - race doesn't.
Science, biatches. The 21st century kind.

If races arent more than just skin color, how are sicentists able to look at something like a bone a blood sample and tell the race of the person, if after all, we are "all the same on the inside"

Each race is in fact a different breed of animal. Very closely related yes, but different.


About the level of responses I expected.
Yawn.
 
2012-10-28 11:36:49 AM

LemSkroob: jso2897: Put simply - gender exists - race doesn't.
Science, biatches. The 21st century kind.

If races arent more than just skin color, how are sicentists able to look at something like a bone a blood sample and tell the race of the person, if after all, we are "all the same on the inside"

Each race is in fact a different breed of animal. Very closely related yes, but different.


Did your mother punch you in the head repeatedly as an infant, or were you born this astoundingly stupid?
 
2012-10-28 11:38:07 AM

jso2897: Fish in a Barrel: jso2897: Put simply - gender exists - race doesn't.
Science, biatches. The 21st century kind.

Of course race exists. We humans are not immune to evolution. There are differences between populations that have been geographically separated for thousands of years. That's basic biology, and to pretend otherwise is to subvert science for politics. If that's your "21st century science," then I don't want it. I'll stick to the old evidence based one.

LemSkroob: jso2897: Put simply - gender exists - race doesn't.
Science, biatches. The 21st century kind.

If races arent more than just skin color, how are sicentists able to look at something like a bone a blood sample and tell the race of the person, if after all, we are "all the same on the inside"

Each race is in fact a different breed of animal. Very closely related yes, but different.

About the level of responses I expected.
Yawn.


If race does not exist then why do scientists say it do?
 
2012-10-28 11:39:17 AM
Fish in a barrel
jso2897: Put simply - gender exists - race doesn't.
Science, biatches. The 21st century kind.

Of course race exists. We humans are not immune to evolution. There are differences between populations that have been geographically separated for thousands of years. That's basic biology, and to pretend otherwise is to subvert science for politics. If that's your "21st century science," then I don't want it. I'll stick to the old evidence based one.


It's amazing how racism comes full circle. Scientifically speaking you are correct, competition through evolution had created races that are different. Competition also creates superior products. Caucasians have allowed African and south American cultures to trick them into handicapping itself into being less competitive than the others.
 
2012-10-28 11:46:35 AM

duenor: I'll say it again: kick underperforming kids out. I don't mean make them drop out, but establish trade schools and apprenticeship programs where these kids will fit in. Kids most often act up when they feel like things are too far above their head. Can't do any of the work, so might as well act up.

It doesn't have to be permanent. Let them study and test their way back into academic programs if they want to. In the same way, if they continue to act up and underperform in those alternative schools, send them to work details - sweeping floors, collecting trash. And if they act up in those, send them home. Doesn't matter if they are 18 or 8. But allow them to test back in, and provide free programs to help with that. Programs that not only provide tutoring, but breakfast and lunch and dinner.



You have my vote of approval. Though I've said the same thing before, minus the part about work details which I think may be an unnecessary or illegal stage. Just go from secondary trade school to home.
 
2012-10-28 11:46:53 AM

david_gaithersburg: On the bright side Blacks and Hispanics excel at getting into prison. Everyone is good at something.


There are no whites in prison?

/STFU you racist fark
 
2012-10-28 11:48:46 AM
They cited their parents' observance of ancient belief systems like Confucianism, a set of moral principles that emphasizes scholarship and reverence for elders, as well as their rejection of child-rearing philosophies more common in the United States that emphasize confidence and general well-being.

While I mock the snowflake-coddling attitude that self-esteem is the only important trait, there has to be a happy medium between that and calling the kid worthless because he got a B in one subject. I dated a Canadian-born Chinese girl whose immigrant parents told her she was no good every day of her life. Her older brother, who got into the most elite school in town and came home with excellent marks, was considered merely average. Now she's a neurotic wreck and the brother's in a mental hospital. I'm so glad I didn't hitch myself to that trainwreck of a family (they took every negative Asian child-rearing stereotype and cranked it up to 11, then added a heaping dollop of profound disfunctionality).

/Even if she'd gotten into Harvard on a full scholarship, they'd have still considered her worthless 'cause she's a girl
//I really hope they're not typical
 
2012-10-28 11:48:54 AM

Gdalescrboz: Fish in a barrel
jso2897: Put simply - gender exists - race doesn't.
Science, biatches. The 21st century kind.

Of course race exists. We humans are not immune to evolution. There are differences between populations that have been geographically separated for thousands of years. That's basic biology, and to pretend otherwise is to subvert science for politics. If that's your "21st century science," then I don't want it. I'll stick to the old evidence based one.

It's amazing how racism comes full circle. Scientifically speaking you are correct, competition through evolution had created races that are different. Competition also creates superior products. Caucasians have allowed African and south American cultures to trick them into handicapping itself into being less competitive than the others.


You mean Caucasians have allowed themselves into becoming like South American and African cultures.
 
2012-10-28 11:48:57 AM

duenor: I'll say something that few will admit, let alone support - at least those who work in education.

Low performing public schools aren't low performing because of teachers. Certainly, there are some lazy and uncaring ones, but the major reason why low performing public schools exist is because of the students.

Every student can learn - true. But when half of each year's academic time and energy is taken up convincing, cajoling, redirecting, and chasing those kids into participating positively, the education of all the other kids suffers horribly.

This is what needs to happen, if we want things to improve significantly (and not depend on martyred teachers who essentially sacrifice their own lives for no reward other than knowing they made a difference): kick underperforming kids out.

I'll say it again: kick underperforming kids out. I don't mean make them drop out, but establish trade schools and apprenticeship programs where these kids will fit in. Kids most often act up when they feel like things are too far above their head. Can't do any of the work, so might as well act up.

It doesn't have to be permanent. Let them study and test their way back into academic programs if they want to. In the same way, if they continue to act up and underperform in those alternative schools, send them to work details - sweeping floors, collecting trash. And if they act up in those, send them home. Doesn't matter if they are 18 or 8. But allow them to test back in, and provide free programs to help with that. Programs that not only provide tutoring, but breakfast and lunch and dinner.


Season IV of The Wire
 
2012-10-28 11:49:05 AM

Dr.Mxyzptlk.: WTF. It thought all these exams were cultural bias in favor of the white man who designed the test. How are these Asians slipping through our net of lies and trickery ?

For decades Black leaders and others told us there were inherent racist elements in testing. How western -Caucasian people approach problems . Africans were more verbal with a rich history of oral history....and bunch of other pseudo intellectual bullshiate passed around the table with babble head nodding whites agreeing.

And in the background the Asians were winning spelling bee's with parents who barley spoke English.
MIT became known as Made In Taiwan....on and on while this myth of flawed testing was pass on to the public.

White people love Asians. Hell look at that the intermarriage rates. Much less positive cultural images.
You farkers need to get pass the "white " in all the root cause of problems.

Unlike Al Sharpton (MSNBC host) who many time called them "interlopers" and countless attacks on Korean grocery stores in the hood....


I gotta say, most Korean small business people I've met are assholes. Went into a small market owned by a Korean back in hot July with my own cup to get some ice. Guy tried to charge me 25 cents for a cup of ice, then got all biatchy in Korean when I told him where to stick his farking ice. Remember that scene in "Falling Down" in the Korean grocery? Link Yeah, assholes like that. Sort of sympathize with people in the 'hood.

When I was in Vietnam I spent some time around ROK units. Biggest racists I ever met. Tolerated us whites; thought the Viets were scum-monkeys. Collected ears in combat. Assholes. (They also scared the crap out of me.)
 
2012-10-28 11:53:05 AM

bifford: They can't afford tutoring for their kids? What, do they think Asian immigrants are all filthy rich? Do they think the owner of Ting's Laundromat wears a Rolex?


I think this sums it all up:

FTA:The city began offering a free test-prep program several years ago for black and Hispanic students, but after a legal challenge, other ethnic groups were granted the same access to the course. Today, 43 percent of the students in the program are Asian
 
2012-10-28 11:53:14 AM

Alleyoop: Eugenics has nothing to do with someone who refuses to improve themselves, Strawman.


Of course it doesn't. It has absolutely nothing to do with their attitude; it has everything to do with yours. Saying "fark 'em" in a public forum doesn't make these people vanish, unless you personally intend to see that they're "vanished". You'll still have to deal with them, one way or another. There is no Galt's Gulch.

The problem is that your opinion has no viable endgame. You can't completely insulate yourself from these people, and you have no intention of changing the situation. Some people have tried to "cleanse" them, with various definitions of "them", but this is a solution society generally finds distasteful, with good reason. So all you're really doing is being a smartass.
 
2012-10-28 11:56:26 AM

ArkAngel: Mr. Right: My question is not why some ethnicities are more successful. My question is why is a school system able to make some schools elite and offer superior education not be able to bring all of their schools up to that level?

Because not every student is, or will ever be capable, of performing at top levels


So you're saying that schools have differing levels of instruction based on students' abilities? Doesn't sound very egalitarian. Isn't that a rehash of "separate but equal?" but based on elitism rather than racism and no more equal?

I realize that all of the people I've ever known whose kids were going to school in large cities that have these special schools wouldn't make a significant statistical sample. However, no parent I've ever talked to has understood that these are schools for more advanced students. Rather, their understanding is that these schools are better than the normal public schools and that any kid who does well on the test and gets in will get a much better education than he would in the regular, neighborhood public school. It is their impression that it is the education in the school that is different, not the students. The article tends to bear that out - the Asians are not inherently smarter, and thus more eligible; they work harder to test well to make themselves eligible.

So why don't these school districts make the superior schools the norm and set the same expectations for all students that the elite schools do and have remedial education facilities for that small percentage who truly can't keep up? Note in the article that it is the parents' expectations that are a primary driving force for the students; not IQ, socioeconomic status, race, or religion.. Be careful what you ask for; you might get it!

In the business world, Eli Goldratt posited "Show me how an employee is measured, I will tell you how he performs." The corollary to that is "Measure them irrationally and they will perform irrationally." Is there any doubt that our children respond to measurements any differently? And meeting parental expectations is a performance measure for children.
 
2012-10-28 11:57:21 AM

jso2897: Fish in a Barrel: jso2897: Put simply - gender exists - race doesn't.
Science, biatches. The 21st century kind.

Of course race exists. We humans are not immune to evolution. There are differences between populations that have been geographically separated for thousands of years. That's basic biology, and to pretend otherwise is to subvert science for politics. If that's your "21st century science," then I don't want it. I'll stick to the old evidence based one.

LemSkroob: jso2897: Put simply - gender exists - race doesn't.
Science, biatches. The 21st century kind.

If races arent more than just skin color, how are sicentists able to look at something like a bone a blood sample and tell the race of the person, if after all, we are "all the same on the inside"

Each race is in fact a different breed of animal. Very closely related yes, but different.

About the level of responses I expected.
Yawn.


Educate us then. If race doesn't exist, then how can it be seen and measured?
 
2012-10-28 11:59:22 AM

theflatline: White men want a little china doll who well be quiet, tend the house, and not balloon into a loud mouthed elepephant with a tattoo on her calf and half his paycheck while she does nothing to contribute.


Guess how I can tell that you've never been married to one of those "quiet China dolls"?

/Quiet???
//But still hot!
 
2012-10-28 12:04:03 PM

pvrhye: My students typically don't get home from studying til around 10 or 11 pm. They don't necessarily use that time 100% efficiently, but they undeniably work way harder than some American kid who thinks anyone in the world with give a damn about whether he was good at sports or not when he graduates.


So if we get our students to study until 11pm then they'll study until 1am. If we start sending our kids to school for a half day on Sat. they'll go to full day on Sat.

Starting the rat race too young.
 
2012-10-28 12:05:25 PM
By other ethnic groups, you mean the NAACP, right
 
2012-10-28 12:07:50 PM

cman: jso2897: Fish in a Barrel: jso2897: Put simply - gender exists - race doesn't.
Science, biatches. The 21st century kind.

Of course race exists. We humans are not immune to evolution. There are differences between populations that have been geographically separated for thousands of years. That's basic biology, and to pretend otherwise is to subvert science for politics. If that's your "21st century science," then I don't want it. I'll stick to the old evidence based one.

LemSkroob: jso2897: Put simply - gender exists - race doesn't.
Science, biatches. The 21st century kind.

If races arent more than just skin color, how are sicentists able to look at something like a bone a blood sample and tell the race of the person, if after all, we are "all the same on the inside"

Each race is in fact a different breed of animal. Very closely related yes, but different.

About the level of responses I expected.
Yawn.

If race does not exist then why do scientists say it do?


They don't.

Fish in a Barrel: jso2897: Fish in a Barrel: jso2897: Put simply - gender exists - race doesn't.
Science, biatches. The 21st century kind.

Of course race exists. We humans are not immune to evolution. There are differences between populations that have been geographically separated for thousands of years. That's basic biology, and to pretend otherwise is to subvert science for politics. If that's your "21st century science," then I don't want it. I'll stick to the old evidence based one.

LemSkroob: jso2897: Put simply - gender exists - race doesn't.
Science, biatches. The 21st century kind.

If races arent more than just skin color, how are sicentists able to look at something like a bone a blood sample and tell the race of the person, if after all, we are "all the same on the inside"

Each race is in fact a different breed of animal. Very closely related yes, but different.

About the level of responses I expected.
Yawn.

Educate us then. If race doesn't exist, then how can it be seen and measured?


It can't.
 
2012-10-28 12:09:31 PM

dragonchild: Alleyoop: Eugenics has nothing to do with someone who refuses to improve themselves, Strawman.

Of course it doesn't. It has absolutely nothing to do with their attitude; it has everything to do with yours. Saying "fark 'em" in a public forum doesn't make these people vanish, unless you personally intrecon76end to see that they're "vanished". You'll still have to deal with them, one way or another. There is no Galt's Gulch.

The problem is that your opinion has no viable endgame. You can't completely insulate yourself from these people, and you have no intention of changing the situation. Some people have tried to "cleanse" them, with various definitions of "them", but this is a solution society generally finds distasteful, with good reason. So all you're really doing is being a smartass.


If I may interject. His case that you cannot help people who willing to help themselves still holds. What is your viable endgame? Lower standards with quotas, set asides and handouts? Does that become a permanent fix? At what stage to do we say well that is not working because all it has developed was a culture of entitlement and dependency?

The city offers free test test prep courses, do you force them to atttend?

FTA:The city began offering a free test-prep program several years ago for black and Hispanic students, but after a legal challenge, other ethnic groups were granted the same access to the course. Today, 43 percent of the students in the program are Asian.

Do you try and change a thug culture where academic achievement is viewed as "acting white"? (Why not acting asian?)

How do sell such a cultural change to groups that want to "preserve their culture"?
 
2012-10-28 12:15:32 PM
CSB

I went to Ohio State from 1999-2002 before I ran out of money and couldn't afford to go anymore. Studying engineering(i won't bother with the type). The vast majority of the kids in my class were from Asia. And they were smart as hell too. The white kids in my class along with myself you could tell came from the public education system and tried as hard as they could but just couldn't compete with the Asian kids. Now, with that in mind, there were probably 7 black students in the class. And this isn't a generalization, they paid no attention what so ever. 4 were kicked out for academic violations(copying each others work). The other 3 barely showed up to class and always complained after exams because of the scores they got on their tests. I asked one why he was there and he old me point blank "he had a free ride because he was black. He was gonna milk it til it was over". And here i thought it was to help people get ahead. Who knew, eh?
 
2012-10-28 12:17:15 PM

relcec: WhippingBoy: ComicBookGuy: Chariset: Wait: so white people want... affirmative action?

You are an idiot.

Give him break. Most modern "social justice" movements are based on the concept of "white privilege" . If this is concept is shown to be false (or even fundamentally flawed), then all those Master of Gender Studies degrees are essentially useless. Chariset is merely trying to perpetuate the "white privilege" stereotype and thus protect his educational investment.

sociology today often is cargo science
many practitioners are in fact antipositivists


Having gotten a (useless) MA in a field closely related to sociology...

You have no idea how right you are.

/fark college
 
2012-10-28 12:17:51 PM

jso2897: Chillax, everybody - the "effect" will be gone in one generation. The mediocrity of American culture conquers all.


*hack*. You just stop insulting us and being right there.
 
2012-10-28 12:21:16 PM

RodneyToady: Chariset: Wait: so white people want... affirmative action?

I don't think white people are leading the charge on this one.

There may be a hidden factor here as well. I don't think it's simply "Asian" vs. "not Asian." I think it's also "immigrant" vs "non-immigrant." While my parents (immigrant Sicilian father) didn't push me to take this test, they still pushed me hard to achieve academically. I got into the public Queens equivalent, and went to what is likely the best Catholic high school in the county (possibly the city). My friends, also children of immigrants, were pushed in much the same way. Race/ethnicity wasn't the driver... immigrant parents was.


Or like the poster the article quoted, other parents need to get more involved in their kids education process.

The kid down the street from us has one of che highest GPA averages in the local high school, his mother is Jamaican and she pushes him to study harder.
 
2012-10-28 12:21:33 PM

ObeliskToucher: theflatline: White men want a little china doll who well be quiet, tend the house, and not balloon into a loud mouthed elepephant with a tattoo on her calf and half his paycheck while she does nothing to contribute.

Guess how I can tell that you've never been married to one of those "quiet China dolls"?

/Quiet???
//But still hot!


My wife is from Colombia, I do believe I am married to the most quiet and demure woman in Latin America. However, when her and my sister in laws are together they are some loud as hell peeps.

Asians and Latins can be very loud, just even in general conversation.
 
2012-10-28 12:24:50 PM
"Race" exists as far as their being different distributions of alleles, repeats, polymorphisms, and mutations across the human genetic sequence, the same way there is variation in any large population of sexually reproducing organisms. Geographical separation and adaptation to specific physical and cultural environments (e.g., having dairy farming or not having it) generate these changes, not so much "competition." The more unique aspect of the human species is that it's the widest ranging single species, probably in the planet's history. However, human genomes don't actually differ that much from each other, dispersion of the current population was very recent, and we're unquestionably a single species, with uniform chromosomal arrangements and only incidentally varying biochemistry. Hell, chimpanzees may vary more than we do at the genome level, and they all look the same to most of us! There are other single species whose individuals are far more different -- look at dogs, which have become so differentiated thanks to human domestication and breeding.

Even though there are different *localized* populations with some genetic pattern differences (minor overall in importance, I assure you) and, pragmatically speaking, disease susceptibilities, this could often be variation WITHIN northern Europe, or WITHIN southern or western African. The point is that such divisions are generally poorly correlated with the standard racial constructs and attitudes of a certain region. "Race" is largely a cultural, social, and psychological concept -- if underlying biologies also vary, that should be taken for what it is: Standard and largely meaningless variation that, if anything, is good for the species as a whole because gene flow and genetic variation are adaptive. Culturally, *only when combined with variation in region, culture, and/or lifestyle* such variation helps to add diversity of perspective and experience and may promote flexible, more expanded thinking and creativity. These are the foundations upon which we have built the successes of the *human race*.
 
2012-10-28 12:27:45 PM

Buffet: Acceptance letter to a high school?? No such thing. You just go!
By the way, anyone know why they always wanna run around barefoot?
Them to me: Take off shoes befoe cumma in house/
Me to them: Fark no!


Think about it. When you're walking around outside you're walking on dirt, excrement, bugs, spittle, all kinds of nasty shiat. When you wear your outdoor shoes inside you're bringing in all of that nasty shiat on the soles of your shoe. Some time or another you're going to go barefoot inside, or have your baby crawling around on the floor. Wiping the shoes off with a floor mat doesn't get everything off.

Carpets don't have to be vacuumed as often, stay cleaner longer and floors don't have to be swept and mopped as often when the shoes are taken off at the door.

/can't stand a gritty floor!!!!
 
2012-10-28 12:28:56 PM
No real thread schiatting. Reasoned, funny comments. Well done.
.
 
2012-10-28 12:29:39 PM

Karma Crusade: "Race" exists as far as their being different distributions of alleles, repeats, polymorphisms, and mutations across the human genetic sequence, the same way there is variation in any large population of sexually reproducing organisms. Geographical separation and adaptation to specific physical and cultural environments (e.g., having dairy farming or not having it) generate these changes, not so much "competition." The more unique aspect of the human species is that it's the widest ranging single species, probably in the planet's history. However, human genomes don't actually differ that much from each other, dispersion of the current population was very recent, and we're unquestionably a single species, with uniform chromosomal arrangements and only incidentally varying biochemistry. Hell, chimpanzees may vary more than we do at the genome level, and they all look the same to most of us! There are other single species whose individuals are far more different -- look at dogs, which have become so differentiated thanks to human domestication and breeding.

Even though there are different *localized* populations with some genetic pattern differences (minor overall in importance, I assure you) and, pragmatically speaking, disease susceptibilities, this could often be variation WITHIN northern Europe, or WITHIN southern or western African. The point is that such divisions are generally poorly correlated with the standard racial constructs and attitudes of a certain region. "Race" is largely a cultural, social, and psychological concept -- if underlying biologies also vary, that should be taken for what it is: Standard and largely meaningless variation that, if anything, is good for the species as a whole because gene flow and genetic variation are adaptive. Culturally, *only when combined with variation in region, culture, and/or lifestyle* such variation helps to add diversity of perspective and experience and may promote flexible, more expanded thinking and creativity ...


See, jso2897, this is how you do it if you're not just trolling.
 
2012-10-28 12:32:40 PM
Back in my day, when white people owned everything, fair representation was gospel. Now that the shoe's on the other foot, suddenly everyone's all bootstrappy? Now that 60% of all college students are women, will we have affirmative action for men? Nah, fark 'em. It's not about equality or fairness, it's about what gets me mine.
 
2012-10-28 12:34:15 PM
The sometimes weak get ahead only by pulling down the strong.
 
2012-10-28 12:35:41 PM

Karma Crusade: "Race" exists as far as their being different distributions of alleles, repeats, polymorphisms, and mutations across the human genetic sequence, the same way there is variation in any large population of sexually reproducing organisms. Geographical separation and adaptation to specific physical and cultural environments (e.g., having dairy farming or not having it) generate these changes, not so much "competition." The more unique aspect of the human species is that it's the widest ranging single species, probably in the planet's history. However, human genomes don't actually differ that much from each other, dispersion of the current population was very recent, and we're unquestionably a single species, with uniform chromosomal arrangements and only incidentally varying biochemistry. Hell, chimpanzees may vary more than we do at the genome level, and they all look the same to most of us! There are other single species whose individuals are far more different -- look at dogs, which have become so differentiated thanks to human domestication and breeding.

Even though there are different *localized* populations with some genetic pattern differences (minor overall in importance, I assure you) and, pragmatically speaking, disease susceptibilities, this could often be variation WITHIN northern Europe, or WITHIN southern or western African. The point is that such divisions are generally poorly correlated with the standard racial constructs and attitudes of a certain region. "Race" is largely a cultural, social, and psychological concept -- if underlying biologies also vary, that should be taken for what it is: Standard and largely meaningless variation that, if anything, is good for the species as a whole because gene flow and genetic variation are adaptive. Culturally, *only when combined with variation in region, culture, and/or lifestyle* such variation helps to add diversity of perspective and experience and may promote flexible, more expanded thinking and creativity ...


Well, one gets yelled at when one points it out - people have a lot invested in the concept of "race" - but nobody who thinks race is a scientific concept seem to understand that they are making an affirmative assertion, and that the burden of proof falls upon them.
When asked to give a scientific definition of a "race", or to state how many "races" science recognizes, or what the proper taxonomic names and descriptions of those "races" are (and to provide citation from legitimate - read peer approved - sources) - they have no answer.
Genus Homo and species Sapiens is as far down as it goes - science has not been able to demonstrate any sub-speciation.
At that point, they generally inform me that I am a bleeding heart liberal and full of shiat, and that their grandaddy's science is good enough for them.

It's pretty predictable.
 
2012-10-28 12:35:41 PM
Here's why there's a fully justified lawsuit. Admission to the elite schools is based ONLY on a single exam, and that exam has shown little to no correlation to actual performance in the elite high school.

It would be like picking an NBA team based solely on how much you can bench-press. You will get a bunch of athletic people, but the skills you're picking off of are not the skills needed to do well once you're on the team.
 
2012-10-28 12:36:04 PM

hasty ambush: His case that you cannot help people who willing to help themselves still holds. What is your viable endgame? Lower standards with quotas, set asides and handouts?


Don't stuff a BS answer in my mouth. You don't need me for political masturbation and I'd rather not be used that way anyway.

hasty ambush: Do you try and change a thug culture where academic achievement is viewed as "acting white"?


Of course. More dramatic cultural change has been accomplished in history, but it does require political will. It's kind of hard to change culture with an antagonistic "fark 'em" approach.

Hey, maybe any given approach has only 1% chance of working, but the Randian solution has a 0% chance. Frankly it doesn't bother me all that much, but if it bothers you, I'm just sayin' the "fark it" prescription isn't all that successful at changing the status quo.
 
2012-10-28 12:36:40 PM
Oh course it's cultural that blacks and whites are falling behind south & east Asians. While their parents are pushing advance math and science classes white Christians are trying to dumb down education because Jesus can't stand critical thinking
 
2012-10-28 12:36:45 PM

Fano: The sometimes weak get ahead only by pulling down the strong.


This may be the best description I have seen about these "fairness" policies and the affect they have on society.
 
2012-10-28 12:36:57 PM

cman: Yeah, fark that.

Merit should never be the prime deciding factor. These Asian kids may be smarter than us white folk, and for that they need to have their intelligence groomed for better things. Forcing white/black/hispanic into these rooms just because they are not as represented is better for our future.


FTFY to remove your bullshiat. If anything, white people should receive affirmative action status out of consistency.

The US education system admits nearly everyone. No wonder it looks bad versus places that deny freedom by educationally speed-binning people into Alphas, Betas, Deltas, and Gammas. Account for that and the alleged "deficiencies" evaporate. But dont let facts get in the way of your PISA-test driven (and anti-American) philosophy.

Let them sue, be victorious, and gain access for Americans of all ethnicities.
 
2012-10-28 12:47:47 PM
People seem to forget that for every kid with sub-standard scores accepted due to Affirmative Action, there's a kid who's better qualified who didn't get to go to the college of their choice, or to go at all.

School admissions are a zero-sum game when you do it like that. Give someone a leg up, someone else gets burned. Why should the Asian students get punished because their parents pushed too many of them to study hard and succeed? I hope this lawsuit gets thrown right into the trash-can.
 
2012-10-28 12:52:28 PM
Let's combat racism by generalizing and being racist.

/sarcasm
 
2012-10-28 12:53:19 PM

Need_MindBleach: I hope this lawsuit gets thrown right into the trash-can.


FWIW, I'd be OK with that. I don't believe in lowering standards; I just don't like the arguments being thrown around in here. It's like Fark is one giant strawman echo chamber. It must be a day of the week that ends in "y".
 
2012-10-28 12:54:36 PM

duenor: I'll say something that few will admit, let alone support - at least those who work in education.

Low performing public schools aren't low performing because of teachers. Certainly, there are some lazy and uncaring ones, but the major reason why low performing public schools exist is because of the students.

Every student can learn - true. But when half of each year's academic time and energy is taken up convincing, cajoling, redirecting, and chasing those kids into participating positively, the education of all the other kids suffers horribly.

This is what needs to happen, if we want things to improve significantly (and not depend on martyred teachers who essentially sacrifice their own lives for no reward other than knowing they made a difference): kick underperforming kids out.

I'll say it again: kick underperforming kids out. I don't mean make them drop out, but establish trade schools and apprenticeship programs where these kids will fit in. Kids most often act up when they feel like things are too far above their head. Can't do any of the work, so might as well act up.

It doesn't have to be permanent. Let them study and test their way back into academic programs if they want to. In the same way, if they continue to act up and underperform in those alternative schools, send them to work details - sweeping floors, collecting trash. And if they act up in those, send them home. Doesn't matter if they are 18 or 8. But allow them to test back in, and provide free programs to help with that. Programs that not only provide tutoring, but breakfast and lunch and dinner.


Don't send them home that is where the problems start. Send the kids to work / reeducation camps, send the parents to coal or uranium mines.

Csb. My mom was not afraid to spank me for not doing or slacking at schoolwork. My brother lived with my dad who only asked him to try more. I got a degree from a very selective program. He barely graduated from highschool. I have never been out of work for even a day in the last 12 years, he has barely had a job. He killed himself drunk driving, I make alcohol for a living and always call a cab. Beatings for poor school performance ftw.
 
2012-10-28 12:55:58 PM

bifford: They can't afford tutoring for their kids? What, do they think Asian immigrants are all filthy rich? Do they think the owner of Ting's Laundromat wears a Rolex?


My thoughts exactly. Many of these families are working day and night to afford test prep and tutoring programs. They could only "afford" them because they worked their tails off in order to do so.
 
2012-10-28 01:03:51 PM

Mr. Right: ArkAngel: Mr. Right: My question is not why some ethnicities are more successful. My question is why is a school system able to make some schools elite and offer superior education not be able to bring all of their schools up to that level?

Because not every student is, or will ever be capable, of performing at top levels



So you're saying that schools have differing levels of instruction based on students' abilities? Doesn't sound very egalitarian. Isn't that a rehash of "separate but equal?" but based on elitism rather than racism and no more equal?


Separating large groups into smaller groups based on talent and skill is not only good, but logical. When you keep them all together, you have two choices: teach to the top (and have the bottom students quit trying) or teach to the bottom (and have the top students act out because they learned this stuff years ago and they are supremely bored).

So why don't these school districts make the superior schools the norm and set the same expectations for all students that the elite schools do and have remedial education facilities for that small percentage who truly can't keep up? Note in the article that it is the parents' expectations that are a primary driving force for the students; not IQ, socioeconomic status, race, or religion.. Be careful what you ask for; you might get it!

1. They don't have the money to do so.
2. Most students currently in the system don't have the desire/ability/work ethic to succeed in these schools. Getting them there would require years of training and work with both the students and the parents
3. They don't have enough of the best teachers. In NYC especially, shiatty teachers are shuffled around like the Old Maid and end up at the worst schools because no one else wants to teach there and they can be lost in the bureaucracy.

In the business world, Eli Goldratt posited "Show me how an employee is measured, I will tell you how he performs." The corollary to that is "Measure them irrationally and they will perform irrationally." Is there any doubt that our children respond to measurements any differently? And meeting parental expectations is a performance measure for children.

I agree that there are many different ways to measure students' performance (and that none is perfect), but standardized test scores are the best and the fairest. Since all students are tested and graded the same (to discount grade inflation), everyone is equal, and not hampered or helped by going to a crappy/great school. Also, it's been shown (in SUNY, of all places), that those with higher scores on the SAT help predict college graduation rates.

Link

It's not only intelligence that is required in these elite schools, it's drive and hard work. The amount of prep that is required for these tests is a good indicator of who can succeed in these schools.
 
2012-10-28 01:10:42 PM

Karma Crusade: "Race" exists as far as their being different distributions of alleles, repeats, polymorphisms, and mutations across the human genetic sequence, the same way there is variation in any large population of sexually reproducing organisms. [...]


This sentence and the rest of your paragraphs make valid points. They may be too complex and have too many big words for the general population to understand, though.

Something from Anthro 101 in college said, "Race is a cultural construct," and as far as I can tell, that's correct. (Most Americans would see Ainu as Japanese, but most Japanese would see Ainu as non-Japanese.) Humans seem to have a natural instinct to split themselves up into groups, then behave badly towards other humans who aren't in the group they themselves are in. If everybody had the same skin color, we'd start classifying based on eye color, or classifying based on where you go to church, or whether you were a Yankees fan.

It's probably impossible to get rid of this splitting up into tribes/cliques/whatever behavior. I wonder if it's possible to get people to form tribes/cliques based on things that are more productive/useful than ethnicity.
 
2012-10-28 01:12:41 PM


White men marry asian women, you don't see a lot of white women marrying asian men.



I have three white female friends who married Asian guys.

Please try again later.
 
2012-10-28 01:14:54 PM
Learning to coast off of others in group work is proably more indicative I'm sure

RminusQ: Here's why there's a fully justified lawsuit. Admission to the elite schools is based ONLY on a single exam, and that exam has shown little to no correlation to actual performance in the elite high school.

It would be like picking an NBA team based solely on how much you can bench-press. You will get a bunch of athletic people, but the skills you're picking off of are not the skills needed to do well once you're on the team.

 
2012-10-28 01:15:57 PM
Wow, so Americans are now complaining that Asian parents drive their kids to excel instead of letting them sit around the TV eating twinkies. No wonder China owns us.
 
2012-10-28 01:16:00 PM
The city began offering a free test-prep program several years ago for black and Hispanic students, but after a legal challenge, other ethnic groups were granted the same access to the course. Today, 43 percent of the students in the program are Asian.

Every time liberals try to do something nice for a favored group, somebody has to screw it up by demanding equal treatment. What a pain.
 
2012-10-28 01:24:58 PM

jso2897: bmihura: jso2897: ronaprhys: jso2897: Chillax, everybody - the "effect" will be gone in one generation. The mediocrity of American culture conquers all.

Members of the species actually belong to two separate genders. They do not, in fact, belong to separate, taxonomically distinct "races". Put simply - gender exists - race doesn't.
Science, biatches. The 21st century kind.


So if there are no races, then there cannot be any racism, by definition.
 
2012-10-28 01:33:31 PM
Why isn't this an asian schoolgirl thread?

jaggermafia.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-10-28 01:41:01 PM

jjorsett: Every time liberals try to do something nice for a favored group, somebody has to screw it up by demanding equal treatment. What a pain.


Ain't it though? It's almost like giving specific, favored people special exemptions to the laws that burden everyone else is called "corruption."

/at least by the people that aren't being given special exemptions
//the people who do benefit consider it "just recognition of our superiority"
///true justice is blind, "social justice" is not
 
2012-10-28 01:41:54 PM
graphics8.nytimes.com
I'd study it..
 
2012-10-28 01:42:53 PM

Gdalescrboz: We had those values. We called them Christian values.


And like everything else in Christianity, they just ripped off someone else's idea wholesale and presented it as their own. And then fail to live up to it, if the home-schooled mouth-breathers coming out of Christian households are any indication.
 
2012-10-28 01:46:49 PM
Give them a generation. They are the first generation after immigration. Historically the hardest workers for the past w hundred years. Wit for the next one, when the parents are rich. It will be more useless than growing up in Scottsdale.
 
2012-10-28 01:47:22 PM

jjorsett: The city began offering a free test-prep program several years ago for black and Hispanic students, but after a legal challenge, other ethnic groups were granted the same access to the course. Today, 43 percent of the students in the program are Asian.

Every time liberals try to do something nice for a favored group, somebody has to screw it up by demanding equal treatment. What a pain.


Yeah, like when liberals wanted to let pharmacists of a favored group deny filling prescriptions they disagreed with based on religious belief. Or when liberals wanted to deny gays the right to get married for the sake of a favored group's religious belief. Or when liberals wanted to stop women from gaining the right to vote, or blacks the right to vote, or blacks the right to anything. Damn liberals, always trying to cater to a favored group. When will they ever learn, amirite?
 
2012-10-28 01:53:24 PM

Mid_mo_mad_man: Oh course it's cultural that blacks and whites are falling behind south & east Asians. While their parents are pushing advance math and science classes white Christians are trying to dumb down education because Jesus can't stand critical thinking


LeGnome: Back in my day, when white people owned everything, fair representation was gospel. Now that the shoe's on the other foot, suddenly everyone's all bootstrappy? Now that 60% of all college students are women, will we have affirmative action for men? Nah, fark 'em. It's not about equality or fairness, it's about what gets me mine.



BeerGraduate: Let's combat racism by generalizing and being racist.

/sarcasm


Or condense it down to gentile White People are Bad. Everything they have ever done has been unfair. They were nothing but bible thumping plantation owners that sat around drinking mint julips while slaves built America. America is nothing but a racist hellhole and we should all be ashamed of our grandparents, great granparents, etc.

That's some fine edumacation you got there, Lou.
 
2012-10-28 01:54:27 PM
Easy fix: include an essay component. Asians are great at memorizing tests, but original thinking? Not so much.
 
2012-10-28 01:57:38 PM

ObeliskToucher: theflatline: White men want a little china doll who well be quiet, tend the house, and not balloon into a loud mouthed elepephant with a tattoo on her calf and half his paycheck while she does nothing to contribute.

Guess how I can tell that you've never been married to one of those "quiet China dolls"?

/Quiet???
//But still hot!


Chinese are known to be the loudest asians. A common expression in asia for some who speaks loudly is that they are "as loud as a Chinese house"

My girlfriend is Lao and is when their family is together they are so quiet it's almost excruciatingly painful to try and listen to their conversations. Often I might be spacing out at the dinner table and suddenly realize somebody is speaking to me and they just asked me a question and I couldn't even hear it.
 
2012-10-28 02:01:35 PM

cman: Yeah, fark that.

Merit alone should be the deciding factor. These Asian kids may be smarter than us white folk, and for that they need to have their intelligence groomed for better things. Forcing white/black/hispanic into these rooms just because they are not as represented is idiotic for our future.


Yeah, god forbid minorities spend time studying or working hard for an education instead of robbing a 7 eleven or filing lawsuits.

Responsibility for our own actions, how the fark does it work?
 
2012-10-28 02:01:53 PM

cman: jso2897: Fish in a Barrel: jso2897: Put simply - gender exists - race doesn't.
Science, biatches. The 21st century kind.

Of course race exists. We humans are not immune to evolution. There are differences between populations that have been geographically separated for thousands of years. That's basic biology, and to pretend otherwise is to subvert science for politics. If that's your "21st century science," then I don't want it. I'll stick to the old evidence based one.

LemSkroob: jso2897: Put simply - gender exists - race doesn't.
Science, biatches. The 21st century kind.

If races arent more than just skin color, how are sicentists able to look at something like a bone a blood sample and tell the race of the person, if after all, we are "all the same on the inside"

Each race is in fact a different breed of animal. Very closely related yes, but different.

About the level of responses I expected.
Yawn.

If race does not exist then why do scientists say it do?


forums-cdn.appleinsider.com
 
2012-10-28 02:03:19 PM

ChuDogg: cman: jso2897: Fish in a Barrel: jso2897: Put simply - gender exists - race doesn't.
Science, biatches. The 21st century kind.

Of course race exists. We humans are not immune to evolution. There are differences between populations that have been geographically separated for thousands of years. That's basic biology, and to pretend otherwise is to subvert science for politics. If that's your "21st century science," then I don't want it. I'll stick to the old evidence based one.

LemSkroob: jso2897: Put simply - gender exists - race doesn't.
Science, biatches. The 21st century kind.

If races arent more than just skin color, how are sicentists able to look at something like a bone a blood sample and tell the race of the person, if after all, we are "all the same on the inside"

Each race is in fact a different breed of animal. Very closely related yes, but different.

About the level of responses I expected.
Yawn.

If race does not exist then why do scientists say it do?

[forums-cdn.appleinsider.com image 288x396]


I will be the first to admit that my grasp of English can be low, especially when I am using a virtual keyboard on my iPad, which makes typing far more difficult
 
2012-10-28 02:08:06 PM

stiletto_the_wise: [graphics8.nytimes.com image 650x508]
I'd study it..


Check the caption on that picture, dude: "Kassidi Cheng, 12, is in test-prep classes..."

Now go have a seat right over there.
 
2012-10-28 02:10:29 PM

RminusQ: Here's why there's a fully justified lawsuit. Admission to the elite schools is based ONLY on a single exam, and that exam has shown little to no correlation to actual performance in the elite high school.


You can complain about the exam all you want but the fact is any object measure of academic achievement is not going to get them the results they want. They will want racial set asides, or proxy racial set asides like using zip codes or what elementary school they graduated from, so they are not judged by the same standards as the other students.
 
2012-10-28 02:12:55 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: jjorsett: The city began offering a free test-prep program several years ago for black and Hispanic students, but after a legal challenge, other ethnic groups were granted the same access to the course. Today, 43 percent of the students in the program are Asian.

Every time liberals try to do something nice for a favored group, somebody has to screw it up by demanding equal treatment. What a pain.

Yeah, like when liberals wanted to let pharmacists of a favored group deny filling prescriptions they disagreed with based on religious belief. Or when liberals wanted to deny gays the right to get married for the sake of a favored group's religious belief. Or when liberals wanted to stop women from gaining the right to vote, or blacks the right to vote, or blacks the right to anything. Damn liberals, always trying to cater to a favored group. When will they ever learn, amirite?


Umm, liberals in the 60's DID try to deny blacks the right to vote. Revisionist history is fun, yes?
 
2012-10-28 02:15:34 PM
The Bell Curve (1994) stated that the average IQ of African Americans was 85, Latino 89, White 103, Asian 106, and Jews 113. Asians score relatively higher on visuospatial than on verbal subtests. The few Amerindian populations who have been systematically tested, including Arctic Natives, tend to score worse on average than white populations but better on average than black populations.

The book was controversial and this may be imprecise. but it plays out rather like what one observes in the real world. Of course there are individual deviations but the book mentions that.

As this is Fark, that last sentence will be ignored and all sorts of individual deviations and annecdotes will be cited as proof the theory is incorrect.
 
2012-10-28 02:18:42 PM

Fish in a Barrel: stiletto_the_wise: [graphics8.nytimes.com image 650x508]
I'd study it..

Check the caption on that picture, dude: "Kassidi Cheng, 12, is in test-prep classes..."

Now go have a seat right over there.


Uhh, that's why I only said I'd study it. Anyway, this thread did not turn out like I had hoped...
 
2012-10-28 02:24:11 PM

Vectron: The Bell Curve (1994) stated that the average IQ of African Americans was 85, Latino 89, White 103, Asian 106, and Jews 113. Asians score relatively higher on visuospatial than on verbal subtests. The few Amerindian populations who have been systematically tested, including Arctic Natives, tend to score worse on average than white populations but better on average than black populations.

The book was controversial and this may be imprecise. but it plays out rather like what one observes in the real world. Of course there are individual deviations but the book mentions that.

As this is Fark, that last sentence will be ignored and all sorts of individual deviations and annecdotes will be cited as proof the theory is incorrect.


I actually happen to have exactly three friends that defy that observation.

Please try again later.
 
2012-10-28 02:25:50 PM
enchantedasianangels.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-10-28 02:25:56 PM

ChuDogg: Vectron: The Bell Curve (1994) stated that the average IQ of African Americans was 85, Latino 89, White 103, Asian 106, and Jews 113. Asians score relatively higher on visuospatial than on verbal subtests. The few Amerindian populations who have been systematically tested, including Arctic Natives, tend to score worse on average than white populations but better on average than black populations.

The book was controversial and this may be imprecise. but it plays out rather like what one observes in the real world. Of course there are individual deviations but the book mentions that.

As this is Fark, that last sentence will be ignored and all sorts of individual deviations and annecdotes will be cited as proof the theory is incorrect.

I actually happen to have exactly three friends that defy that observation.

Please try again later.



Oh, 3 whole friends. My isn't that scientific.
 
2012-10-28 02:26:25 PM
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-10-28 02:26:29 PM
Fark you subby.
 
2012-10-28 02:29:07 PM
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-10-28 02:31:40 PM

lewismarktwo: Too bad testing doesn't do anything but find the people who can memorize or test well. But who needs ingenuity?


And here we have the $64,000 question: rote learning (and cheating) gives one the ability to score well on tests. If you're not able to think on your feet and come up with solutions at a moment's notice, then what the hell good is a high test score?
 
2012-10-28 02:37:29 PM
For what it's worth I just proctored a PSAT last weekend. Of the 26 kids, 1 black, 2 Indian, 3 white, 4 Latino, and the rest were Asian.
 
2012-10-28 02:38:23 PM

Vectron: The Bell Curve (1994) stated that the average IQ of African Americans was 85, Latino 89, White 103, Asian 106, and Jews 113. Asians score relatively higher on visuospatial than on verbal subtests. The few Amerindian populations who have been systematically tested, including Arctic Natives, tend to score worse on average than white populations but better on average than black populations.

The book was controversial and this may be imprecise. but it plays out rather like what one observes in the real world. Of course there are individual deviations but the book mentions that.

As this is Fark, that last sentence will be ignored and all sorts of individual deviations and annecdotes will be cited as proof the theory is incorrect.



It is commonly accepted that IQs are genetically determined (and hence the racial factor) but the only problem is that IQ does not correlate with anything. IQ does not correlate with success or academic achievement. Researchers have tested and found kids with the highest IQs and tracked their achievements through later life but found them to be no better than a group of kids with average IQ. IQ is only good for setting some sort of minimum but if someone is above that it's meaningless.

The other problem with the bell curve IQ is that while the averages of the curves are different, there is a considerable overlap of the curves. So, if took a small random sample of people of different races, there is no way to predict their IQs. You could easily randomly pick a group where the highest IQ is of an African American and the lowest a Jew. Predicting the IQ of a person by race then just becomes a game of chance.

All these mid-century IQ testing and finding the genetic super-smart people who will lead the world in the future have failed. Genius kids grow up to be very ordinary, failed people grow up to be geniuses. Einstein was a failed scientist who had to work at the patent office because no university would hire him as professor. IQ was an interesting scientific metric but turned out to be a dud for measuring things that matter.
 
2012-10-28 02:43:15 PM
metropolitician.blogs.com
 
2012-10-28 02:43:44 PM
Uchiha_Cycliste:
cdn1.hark.com
Now we are in business...
 
2012-10-28 02:48:15 PM
kendelrio:
On one of the boats I work on we have a Russian galley-hand and a Honduran BR hand. Their grasp of the English language is tenuous at best. Listening to them have a conversation is pretty awesome when you try to figure out what they are saying to each other.

I imagine it sounding somewhat like Gaff's "streetspeak" from Blade Runner.
 
2012-10-28 02:48:19 PM

sjcpjh1: For what it's worth I just proctored a PSAT last weekend. Of the 26 kids, 1 black, 2 Indian, 3 white, 4 Latino, and the rest were Asian.


And how does this reflect the demographics of the population of the area? And aren't Indians Asian? or do you mean American Indians?
 
2012-10-28 02:49:15 PM
koreabanget88.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-10-28 02:50:14 PM
iphonetoolbox.com
 
2012-10-28 02:50:42 PM
The reason they come here is because our country has relaxed its academic standards that the average Asian can get exceptional scores against our snowflakes. If you have to blame anybody, blame the heli-parents that can't accept a world with tough challenges for their children.
 
2012-10-28 02:51:11 PM
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-10-28 02:52:28 PM

Vectron: Mid_mo_mad_man: Oh course it's cultural that blacks and whites are falling behind south & east Asians. While their parents are pushing advance math and science classes white Christians are trying to dumb down education because Jesus can't stand critical thinking

LeGnome: Back in my day, when white people owned everything, fair representation was gospel. Now that the shoe's on the other foot, suddenly everyone's all bootstrappy? Now that 60% of all college students are women, will we have affirmative action for men? Nah, fark 'em. It's not about equality or fairness, it's about what gets me mine.


BeerGraduate: Let's combat racism by generalizing and being racist.

/sarcasm

Or condense it down to gentile White People are Bad. Everything they have ever done has been unfair. They were nothing but bible thumping plantation owners that sat around drinking mint julips while slaves built America. America is nothing but a racist hellhole and we should all be ashamed of our grandparents, great granparents, etc.

That's some fine edumacation you got there, Lou.



You don't beleave Christians aren't trying to dumb down science education? If you buy that I got someone ocean front property in Arizona to sell you.
/btw I'm white as wonder bread
 
2012-10-28 02:54:16 PM

cmb53208: lewismarktwo: Too bad testing doesn't do anything but find the people who can memorize or test well. But who needs ingenuity?

And here we have the $64,000 question: rote learning (and cheating) gives one the ability to score well on tests. If you're not able to think on your feet and come up with solutions at a moment's notice, then what the hell good is a high test score?


I hate this argument, as it's almost certain proof that the proponent has completely forgotten how to learn.

"Thinking on your feet" isn't something that happens without a shiat-ton of scut work repeated over and over until it becomes second nature. How many great jazz musicians have there ever been from the first dane they pickup up an instrument? None, that's how many. Getting to the point of masterful improvisation takes years of playing scales and improving technique.

Same thing with everything else. You can't analyze history or poetry without knowing a damned lot about either. You can't create architecture without a reflexive understanding of a lot of math and material science. You can't even do your taxes if you can add and subtract correctly.

Schools test rote knowledge because rote knowledge matters, and it matters most as a well-placed building block to the people who are in the process of building a framework of education: students.
 
2012-10-28 02:55:28 PM

Alleyoop: Eugenics has nothing to do with someone who refuses to improve themselves, Strawman..


dragonchild: It has absolutely nothing to do with their attitude; it has everything to do with yours. Saying "fark 'em" in a public forum doesn't make these people vanish, unless you personally intend to see that they're "vanished".... Some people have tried to "cleanse" them, with various definitions of "them", but this is a solution society generally finds distasteful, with good reason.


Still trying to play the Nazi card? I wish to reward people who care to improve themselves. This is called Positive Reinforcement. You wish to reward people who do not care to improve themselves. This is called, well, what we've got now. So, how's that working out? Going by your definition of Eugenics, race-based entitlements ARE Eugenics, which is working quite efficiently to keep minorities in the ghetto slaughtering (or "cleansing") themselves.  Society generally finds this much more "distasteful."
 
2012-10-28 03:03:55 PM

Vectron: The Bell Curve (1994) stated that the average IQ of African Americans was 85, Latino 89, White 103, Asian 106, and Jews 113. Asians score relatively higher on visuospatial than on verbal subtests. The few Amerindian populations who have been systematically tested, including Arctic Natives, tend to score worse on average than white populations but better on average than black populations.

The book was controversial and this may be imprecise. but it plays out rather like what one observes in the real world. Of course there are individual deviations but the book mentions that.

As this is Fark, that last sentence will be ignored and all sorts of individual deviations and annecdotes will be cited as proof the theory is incorrect.


I am a Jew Spic, do they average the scores between the two for me? Well, I guess since the family fled from holland, to spain, and then on to the carribean, I guess there is more hebe in the woodpile.
 
2012-10-28 03:09:28 PM

rohar: Ok I'll bite. Why are some schools in NYC held to one standard while the rest are held to a different one? The solution isn't affirmative action, the solution is to bring the low standard schools up to the "excellent" standard.


And flunk out a whole bunch of students in the process??

Putting a student in a class above their level does little to improve their learning. It does a lot towards making them flunk, though.

Admitting students to schools they don't qualify for is a matter of *PRETENDING* the problem is gone rather than addressing the actual cause of the problem.

duenor: I'll say something that few will admit, let alone support - at least those who work in education.

Low performing public schools aren't low performing because of teachers. Certainly, there are some lazy and uncaring ones, but the major reason why low performing public schools exist is because of the students.


I've been saying this for many years and it's been a quite unpopular view.

This is what needs to happen, if we want things to improve significantly (and not depend on martyred teachers who essentially sacrifice their own lives for no reward other than knowing they made a difference): kick underperforming kids out.

I'll say it again: kick underperforming kids out. I don't mean make them drop out, but establish trade schools and apprenticeship programs where these kids will fit in. Kids most often act up when they feel like things are too far above their head. Can't do any of the work, so might as well act up.


Here I disagree. Underperforming kids need classes geared to their level.

ObeliskToucher: theflatline: White men want a little china doll who well be quiet, tend the house, and not balloon into a loud mouthed elepephant with a tattoo on her calf and half his paycheck while she does nothing to contribute.

Guess how I can tell that you've never been married to one of those "quiet China dolls"?

/Quiet???
//But still hot!


Second that. Little? Check (4'10", 100#) China? Check (Shanghai born and raised) Doll? Check (More than one person has described her as one and she looks 20 years younger than she really is) Quiet? Hell, no! She's not much for housework, either--but she's determined to contribute.

RminusQ: Here's why there's a fully justified lawsuit. Admission to the elite schools is based ONLY on a single exam, and that exam has shown little to no correlation to actual performance in the elite high school.


[citation needed]

Need_MindBleach: People seem to forget that for every kid with sub-standard scores accepted due to Affirmative Action, there's a kid who's better qualified who didn't get to go to the college of their choice, or to go at all.

School admissions are a zero-sum game when you do it like that. Give someone a leg up, someone else gets burned. Why should the Asian students get punished because their parents pushed too many of them to study hard and succeed? I hope this lawsuit gets thrown right into the trash-can.


Oh, come on now. Secondary effects simply don't happen! You can change any system in a liberal fashion without any undesirable reaction!
 
2012-10-28 03:10:44 PM

Mid_mo_mad_man: Vectron: Or condense it down to gentile White People are Bad. Everything they have ever done has been unfair. They were nothing but bible thumping plantation owners that sat around drinking mint julips while slaves built America. America is nothing but a racist hellhole and we should all be ashamed of our grandparents, great granparents, etc.

That's some fine edumacation you got there, Lou.


You don't beleave Christians aren't trying to dumb down science education? If you buy that I got someone ocean front property in Arizona to sell you.
/btw I'm white as wonder bread



Some dumb ass evangelicals perhaps but not the vast majority of Christians.
If you get your life experiences through Fark, I can see why you would believe that though.
Don't always take the most extreme behavior of a group and assign it as the mainstream behavior of the entire group.
 
2012-10-28 03:11:23 PM

gerrymander: cmb53208: lewismarktwo: Too bad testing doesn't do anything but find the people who can memorize or test well. But who needs ingenuity?

And here we have the $64,000 question: rote learning (and cheating) gives one the ability to score well on tests. If you're not able to think on your feet and come up with solutions at a moment's notice, then what the hell good is a high test score?

I hate this argument, as it's almost certain proof that the proponent has completely forgotten how to learn.

"Thinking on your feet" isn't something that happens without a shiat-ton of scut work repeated over and over until it becomes second nature. How many great jazz musicians have there ever been from the first dane they pickup up an instrument? None, that's how many. Getting to the point of masterful improvisation takes years of playing scales and improving technique.

Same thing with everything else. You can't analyze history or poetry without knowing a damned lot about either. You can't create architecture without a reflexive understanding of a lot of math and material science. You can't even do your taxes if you can add and subtract correctly.

Schools test rote knowledge because rote knowledge matters, and it matters most as a well-placed building block to the people who are in the process of building a framework of education: students.


I hate this argument also. Think of it this way: The test is just another problem that you need a solution for. If you can't "think on your feet" and come up with a solution to do better on the test than other people, maybe you don't have what it takes to go to these schools.

The whole point of these schools are to take the best students and put them with excellent teachers to try and help them get the most out of their potential. Looking at the alumni list for these schools seems to prove they've been doing a pretty good job.

/Bx Sci Grad
//Mmmm, smart asain chicks
///Still waiting for our damned pool
 
2012-10-28 03:11:50 PM

theflatline: Vectron: The Bell Curve (1994) stated that the average IQ of African Americans was 85, Latino 89, White 103, Asian 106, and Jews 113. Asians score relatively higher on visuospatial than on verbal subtests. The few Amerindian populations who have been systematically tested, including Arctic Natives, tend to score worse on average than white populations but better on average than black populations.

The book was controversial and this may be imprecise. but it plays out rather like what one observes in the real world. Of course there are individual deviations but the book mentions that.

As this is Fark, that last sentence will be ignored and all sorts of individual deviations and annecdotes will be cited as proof the theory is incorrect.

I am a Jew Spic, do they average the scores between the two for me? Well, I guess since the family fled from holland, to spain, and then on to the carribean, I guess there is more hebe in the woodpile.


LOL
 
2012-10-28 03:13:34 PM
farm5.static.flickr.com
 
2012-10-28 03:15:08 PM
4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-10-28 03:15:58 PM
www.rapidescalation.com
 
2012-10-28 03:17:49 PM
How do Japanese school girls succeed if they spend so much time after school posing in their uniforms? When do they have time to study?
 
2012-10-28 03:18:36 PM
officialpsds.com
 
2012-10-28 03:19:44 PM

Vectron: How do Japanese school girls succeed if they spend so much time after school posing in their uniforms? When do they have time to study?


You don't need to study if you expect your husband to provide everything for you
 
2012-10-28 03:21:05 PM

FizixJunkee: White men marry asian women, you don't see a lot of white women marrying asian men.



I have three white female friends who married Asian guys.

Please try again later.


wtf bizarro world do you live in

/ and how can i get there?
// meh only ugly white girls gor for asians, but then again they'll go for anything since theyre ugly
 
2012-10-28 03:26:45 PM

thisiszombocom: FizixJunkee: White men marry asian women, you don't see a lot of white women marrying asian men.



I have three white female friends who married Asian guys.

Please try again later.

wtf bizarro world do you live in

/ and how can i get there?
// meh only ugly white girls gor for asians, but then again they'll go for anything since theyre ugly


That's why those girls are his friends instead of someone he banged

/ostensibly
 
2012-10-28 03:29:19 PM
www.dalje.com
 
2012-10-28 03:34:20 PM
You never hear about anti-Asian sentiment as much as you do other prejudices.



Their like the one group you can mock without being called on it.
 
2012-10-28 03:39:11 PM

Marshal805: You never hear about anti-Asian sentiment as much as you do other prejudices.



Their like the one group you can mock without being called on it.


I think everybody pretty much likes Asians. I don't really like the new Chinese arrivals. I think Japanese and white people are especially compatible. They have many fine qualities to admire.
 
2012-10-28 03:51:12 PM

jayphat: CSB

I went to Ohio State from 1999-2002 before I ran out of money and couldn't afford to go anymore. Studying engineering(i won't bother with the type). The vast majority of the kids in my class were from Asia. And they were smart as hell too. The white kids in my class along with myself you could tell came from the public education system and tried as hard as they could but just couldn't compete with the Asian kids. Now, with that in mind, there were probably 7 black students in the class. And this isn't a generalization, they paid no attention what so ever. 4 were kicked out for academic violations(copying each others work). The other 3 barely showed up to class and always complained after exams because of the scores they got on their tests. I asked one why he was there and he old me point blank "he had a free ride because he was black. He was gonna milk it til it was over". And here i thought it was to help people get ahead. Who knew, eh?


I've attended three universities and have two bachelors degrees and one masters degree. In all those years of schooling, there's only been a handful of black students in any of my physics or math courses. The very few who were in my classes tended to come from "the islands" or directly from Africa. I can't recall a single, American-born black student in any class.
 
2012-10-28 04:03:14 PM
Many Asians study constantly-12 hours a day. I bet if you compared apples to apples (whites and asians who study at the same rate) you'd find nearly matched success on tests.

Whites: study harder.
 
2012-10-28 04:11:15 PM
and the tree's were all made equal
 
2012-10-28 04:11:38 PM

FizixJunkee: I've attended three universities and have two bachelors degrees and one masters degree. In all those years of schooling, there's only been a handful of black students in any of my physics or math courses. The very few who were in my classes tended to come from "the islands" or directly from Africa. I can't recall a single, American-born black student in any class.


Come to think of it I can't recall seeing a black student in any of my computer classes. Asians everywhere, though--and that was back in the 80s.
 
2012-10-28 04:12:14 PM
Public schools are broken for many reasons... with this lawsuitlarity crap in addition to not having the funds to pay for ejumacashuning my childrens (plus all-expense trips to Disneyland for the Administrators).

That's why we send our kids to private school. In a world of winners and losers, why send my children to learn about meh whatever mediocrity?
 
2012-10-28 04:16:44 PM
CSS time: One of my students arrived here from China three years ago, speaking no English. However, he has worked incredibly hard since his arrival (while also working full-time at his uncle's business in exchange for room and board), is taking a full load of Honors classes this year and will have his pick of top universities next fall.

Three main things have made the difference for him:

First, in China, he benefited from a world-class mathematics education beginning at age 4. Unlike the American system, math is taught is such a way that kids understand it and enjoy it. They're not turned off and frustrated by it, nor are they ever allowed to label themselves as "bad at math". That happens very early here, sometimes by second or third grade.

Having that strength has allowed him to feel successful in school and earn recognition for his efforts, which makes teachers and administrators invest in his success in other areas.

Second, hard work. Crazy hard work. This student attended school, went to free after-school tutoring four days a week, worked six nights a week, then got home and studied some more. No real social life, no work-life balance, not much sleep, just sacrificing now for the reward later. I don't know many other teenagers with that kind of commitment. He understands he has an obligation to his family; unsurprisingly he's an only child and his parents, though they live in another state, check in with him daily to assure he stays on track.

Third, this kid is incredibly well-mannered and respectful, yet unafraid to ask for help. His persistence and cheerful personality have endeared him to many teachers, who are overjoyed to see a student show effort and meet deadlines. Though he's no longer my student, we got to know each other so well during his first two years here that he still refers to me as his American mom. Having those kind of mentoring relationships has enabled him to more quickly adapt to American culture, without being sucked into the negative aspects of rampant consumerism and negative media influences.

Would I expect this from my own child? No, I don't think it's realistic and perhaps to his long-term economic detriment, I want him to grow up well-rounded rather than living in a pressurized environment where academic achievement is the only thing that matters. To me, it's more important to let kids have a happy childhood, exploring and learning naturally in a somewhat self-directed manner.

On the other hand, the achievements of my "Chinese son" are beyond anything I or any of his other American teachers expected. His extraordinary proficiency with advanced mathematics isn't genetic - it's simply the result of how the schools where he grew up operate. Having that advantage, combined with an incredible work ethic, has enabled him to achieve in three years what the vast majority of American-born students never will. Rather than blame our deficiencies on others, we should be celebrating these students' achievements and learning from their example.
 
2012-10-28 04:18:56 PM
Can't we just cut the Occam's razor and say that asians > whites > blacks as far as smarts (and vice versa as far as dick size), and call it a day?
 
2012-10-28 04:20:47 PM

XYNHR: Can't we just cut the Occam's razor and say that asians > whites > blacks as far as smarts (and vice versa as far as dick size), and call it a day?


Did you come up with that on your own?

Cuz if so.... you are farking funny as hell
 
2012-10-28 04:24:10 PM

legion_of_doo: Public schools are broken for many reasons... with this lawsuitlarity crap in addition to not having the funds to pay for ejumacashuning my childrens (plus all-expense trips to Disneyland for the Administrators).

That's why we send our kids to private school. In a world of winners and losers, why send my children to learn about meh whatever mediocrity?


If you think your kids would fail in public schools and the schools are completely bottom of the barrel, that's not on the system. That's on you as parents.
 
2012-10-28 04:28:58 PM

Vectron: ChuDogg: Vectron: The Bell Curve (1994) stated that the average IQ of African Americans was 85, Latino 89, White 103, Asian 106, and Jews 113. Asians score relatively higher on visuospatial than on verbal subtests. The few Amerindian populations who have been systematically tested, including Arctic Natives, tend to score worse on average than white populations but better on average than black populations.

The book was controversial and this may be imprecise. but it plays out rather like what one observes in the real world. Of course there are individual deviations but the book mentions that.

As this is Fark, that last sentence will be ignored and all sorts of individual deviations and annecdotes will be cited as proof the theory is incorrect.

I actually happen to have exactly three friends that defy that observation.

Please try again later.


Oh, 3 whole friends. My isn't that scientific.


Can't even make a bell curve with three friends. It would be more like a triangle point or something.

Also, I'm guessing there are no white people from Mancelona, Michigan or the entire state of Arkansas represented in that study.
 
2012-10-28 04:31:03 PM

sjcpjh1: For what it's worth I just proctored a PSAT last weekend. Of the 26 kids, 1 black, 2 Indian, 3 white, 4 Latino, and the rest were Asian.


so how many asians does that make?

That's what I wanna know doughnut lady
 
2012-10-28 04:47:23 PM

DrewCurtisJr: sjcpjh1: For what it's worth I just proctored a PSAT last weekend. Of the 26 kids, 1 black, 2 Indian, 3 white, 4 Latino, and the rest were Asian.

And how does this reflect the demographics of the population of the area? And aren't Indians Asian? or do you mean American Indians?


Demographic is heavily Latino, followed by Viet. I had 5 parents show up for back to school night.
 
2012-10-28 04:49:13 PM
first of all, I'm Asian AND I went to Stuyvesant High School, so I'm getting a kick etc.

second of all, "the Shis"? I know that's the plural of their family name, but I found it funny. "Let's go find some Shiiiiiiiiisssssss and congratulate them on their son's hard work."

third of all, Asians earn their good grades. they work their butts off. it's not like the teacher is spotting all of the Asians, giving them an automatic A+, and giving everyone else C's.

fourth of all, have they seen any studies on the rate of suicide, depression, and burn out that Asian high schoolers are facing? it's disproportionately high.
 
2012-10-28 04:51:32 PM
As a white guy, the only thing worse than being academically trounced by Asians was always coming in second to them because I could not match their discipline.
 
2012-10-28 04:57:41 PM

aesirx: fourth of all, have they seen any studies on the rate of suicide, depression, and burn out that Asian high schoolers are facing? it's disproportionately high.


The Japanese have a term for this phenomenon called "karoshi," which means death caused by overwork.
 
2012-10-28 05:03:47 PM

theflatline: White men want a little china doll who well be quiet, tend the house, and not balloon into a loud mouthed elepephant with a tattoo on her calf and half his paycheck while she does nothing to contribute.


My whitey husband must be quite surprised, then.
 
2012-10-28 05:05:50 PM
Let's face it Whites and Asians just can't cut it in African-American Studies programs.
Its a shame because we're falling behind the rest of the world in that discipline.
 
2012-10-28 05:12:27 PM

mmagdalene: CSS time: One of my students arrived here from China three years ago, speaking no English. However, he has worked incredibly hard since his arrival (while also working full-time at his uncle's business in exchange for room and board), is taking a full load of Honors classes this year and will have his pick of top universities next fall.

Three main things have made the difference for him:

First, in China, he benefited from a world-class mathematics education beginning at age 4. Unlike the American system, math is taught is such a way that kids understand it and enjoy it. They're not turned off and frustrated by it, nor are they ever allowed to label themselves as "bad at math". That happens very early here, sometimes by second or third grade.

Having that strength has allowed him to feel successful in school and earn recognition for his efforts, which makes teachers and administrators invest in his success in other areas.


are you sure math is not genetic? I'm Asian and was insanely good at math. I mean, like, getting a 100% on a test when every other student scored 40%'s, literally. my brother and sister also excelled at computer science, but all of us were educated in America. our parents didn't even have that great of an education in China; by the time I was in like 7th grade, I was already surpassing them in academic ability.

And I have to second your point about math and confidence / connections. being able to answer every math question at the drop of a hat did wonderful things for me.
 
2012-10-28 05:12:28 PM

aesirx: Asians earn their good grades. they work their butts off. it's not like the teacher is spotting all of the Asians, giving them an automatic A+, and giving everyone else C's.

fourth of all, have they seen any studies on the rate of suicide, depression, and burn out that Asian high schoolers are facing? it's disproportionately high.


Yeah, my upbringing was a recipe for "success" as Randians define it, but I'm not sure I'd call it a recipe for happiness. I spend most of my twenties with a bit of a complex, I have very few fond childhood memories and no desire for children of my own. I'm better off financially AND stress-wise than most of my peers, but I don't really like how hard I had to work to get there. This is the richest country in the history of the world; why did I have to work 80-hour weeks just to pay off student loans??
 
2012-10-28 05:13:05 PM

kendelrio: kendelrio: IamKaiserSoze!!!: OK, but how did they do on their drivers exam, huh?

That's what I want to know
Comment+Cofee+Nose+Keyboard= +1 Internet for you!

And the fact I misspelled "coffee" is just.... awesome....
**facepalm**
/preview is my FRIEND




I can't believe you F'd that up.
 
2012-10-28 05:15:44 PM

serialsuicidebomber: kendelrio: kendelrio: IamKaiserSoze!!!: OK, but how did they do on their drivers exam, huh?

That's what I want to know
Comment+Cofee+Nose+Keyboard= +1 Internet for you!

And the fact I misspelled "coffee" is just.... awesome....
**facepalm**
/preview is my FRIEND



I can't believe you F'd that up.


kendelrio shames the house of his fathers!
 
2012-10-28 05:18:23 PM

aesirx: fourth of all, have they seen any studies on the rate of suicide, depression, and burn out that Asian high schoolers are facing? it's disproportionately high.


That's what concerns me when people say, "Well just work harder.". At a certain point it becomes unhealthy and our kids are losing out on the rest of life.

When I go to family owned, Asian store front restaurants it's not uncommon to see kids sitting in the corner working on homework even on Fri and Sat night.
 
2012-10-28 05:22:51 PM

DrewCurtisJr: aesirx: fourth of all, have they seen any studies on the rate of suicide, depression, and burn out that Asian high schoolers are facing? it's disproportionately high.

That's what concerns me when people say, "Well just work harder.". At a certain point it becomes unhealthy and our kids are losing out on the rest of life.

When I go to family owned, Asian store front restaurants it's not uncommon to see kids sitting in the corner working on homework even on Fri and Sat night.


well, to be honest, sometimes you have to work harder. rent won't pay itself.

also, the idea of overworking is much more prominent in Japan. there, they're putting in 10 or 12 hour days while still getting paid for 8 hours. In fact, large corporations have to force employees to take a holiday or a half day off.

Ishle Yi Park, a Korean American-born poet, has a CD titled, Work is Love.

but! how is this any different than, say, Amish or Protestant work ethics?
 
2012-10-28 05:30:08 PM

DrewCurtisJr: aesirx: fourth of all, have they seen any studies on the rate of suicide, depression, and burn out that Asian high schoolers are facing? it's disproportionately high.

That's what concerns me when people say, "Well just work harder.". At a certain point it becomes unhealthy and our kids are losing out on the rest of life.



Yes, quality of life is really important in Western societies. One of the most successful countries in the world is Germany yet they are behind the US in number of hours worked per year and productivity.

Chinese American are different from whites. It may not only be IQ but also the ability to work like crazy and remain mentally healthy.

Obviously, not only hard work counts, but capability. Anyone that has sat in a classroom knows that. 

Why are we inviting so many people into the country that will eventually become our ruling class?
 
2012-10-28 05:31:44 PM

daveUSMC: is it taboo to suggest that different cultures have different values?


When you make judgement calls about the worth of each culture without historical, sociological, political and financial context, yes.

When you try to relate those values to appearance (i.e. skin color), even more so.

Problem is that many of the people who try and "suggest" that different cultures have different values are not trying to simply explain those differences or those values, but to prove why certain cultures and certain values are better than others, particularly if those cultures and values are in line with their beliefs.

There is a difference between:
"This ball is blue and this ball is red."
and
"I think this ball is better because it is blue."
Got it?
 
2012-10-28 05:32:10 PM

MatrixOutsider: As a white guy, the only thing worse than being academically trounced by Asians was always coming in second to them because I could not match their discipline.


As a white guy, there's nothing wrong with being trounced by ______. (Fill in the blank with any human race.) There's always someone smarter/better. It happens.

Now what IS farked up beyond all recognition is that only the white guy will be told and lectured his entire life, from cradle to grave, that the only reason he got where he is is because of "white privilege", and he doesn't deserve anything he has worked for and should be ashamed of it.

Politically correct racist horseshiat. Don't obsess over race, including your own.
 
2012-10-28 05:41:52 PM

ThrobblefootSpectre: MatrixOutsider: As a white guy, the only thing worse than being academically trounced by Asians was always coming in second to them because I could not match their discipline.

As a white guy, there's nothing wrong with being trounced by ______. (Fill in the blank with any human race.) There's always someone smarter/better. It happens.

Now what IS farked up beyond all recognition is that only the white guy will be told and lectured his entire life, from cradle to grave, that the only reason he got where he is is because of "white privilege", and he doesn't deserve anything he has worked for and should be ashamed of it.

Politically correct racist horseshiat. Don't obsess over race, including your own.


I never knew white people had it this rough. Why aren't anyone talking about this instead of the frivolous bs problems other races have?
 
2012-10-28 05:44:43 PM

Fallout Boy: Why aren't anyone talking about this instead of the frivolous bs problems other races have?


Probably because problems experienced by other races aren't frivolous bs. Nice try, racist.
 
2012-10-28 05:45:12 PM

aesirx: well, to be honest, sometimes you have to work harder. rent won't pay itself.

also, the idea of overworking is much more prominent in Japan. there, they're putting in 10 or 12 hour days while still getting paid for 8 hours. In fact, large corporations have to force employees to take a holiday or a half day off.


I thought the Tiger mom was Chinese. I want our kids to excel in academics and enjoy childhood, balance.

Vectron: Chinese American are different from whites. It may not only be IQ but also the ability to work like crazy and remain mentally healthy.



Maybe they just appear that way outwardly.
 
2012-10-28 05:49:54 PM
Oops, I was supposed to cower and feel guilty about being white just then, wasn't I?
 
2012-10-28 05:55:30 PM

Fallout Boy: ThrobblefootSpectre: MatrixOutsider: As a white guy, the only thing worse than being academically trounced by Asians was always coming in second to them because I could not match their discipline.

As a white guy, there's nothing wrong with being trounced by ______. (Fill in the blank with any human race.) There's always someone smarter/better. It happens.

Now what IS farked up beyond all recognition is that only the white guy will be told and lectured his entire life, from cradle to grave, that the only reason he got where he is is because of "white privilege", and he doesn't deserve anything he has worked for and should be ashamed of it.

Politically correct racist horseshiat. Don't obsess over race, including your own.

I never knew white people had it this rough. Why aren't anyone talking about this instead of the frivolous bs problems other races have?


Can't agree more. I have had the honor of meeting plenty of white folks who work damn hard with what they have to put food on the table and a roof over their family's heads. Each time I hear a kid talking to me about how "white people" this or "white people" that, I get on his case. It's stupid, self-pitying, downright racist tripe.

Yes, there are white racists out there. There are plenty of white people in power who are racists, too. I'm sure of that.

But at least 90% of the time, the setbacks a minority kid gets in life is because of his own dumb self, and maybe his own dumb parents. And, the best way out of it is through his own hard work.

Here's some advice to parents:

1) FORCE your kids to read for an hour a day MINIMUM. No music, no tv, no computers, just a book and the kid. But put effort into letting the kid choose a book he/she will like. Go to the library, bookstore, amazon. This is the #1 factor in high reading comprehension and writing skills - and proven by data.

2) Visit your child's classroom often - bring doughnuts, little cards for holidays, presents for the teacher (maybe a homemade pie or even a thank-you card). Your child will get HUGE benefits from these small efforts, and will much more likely be willing to tell you things.

3) Invest in your child's fitness. This is a lifelong gift you can give, and must be made a habit of by high school. If you let him get fat and slovenly in high school, he/she will have to fight being depressed, fat, and unhappy the rest of his/her life.

4) Make sure your son/daughter gets help in algebra 1. if you do that properly, you won't have to worry about the rest of the math classes. If you screw that up, he/she is not going to anything better than community college.


This is tough advice that no one wants to hear, but what I've been trying hard to do. It is hard but I know I'll be dead one day and this is the best inheritance I'll ever be able to leave behind.
 
2012-10-28 05:57:39 PM

dittybopper: daveUSMC: is it taboo to suggest that different cultures have different values?

Yes, it is. It's also taboo to suggest that parents pass their cultural values down to their children, who pass them along to their children, etc.


Probably. And it's also wrong to suggest that hard work and sacrifice is what gets you ahead.

Here in So Cal, of course, we have the Hispanic immigrants (legal and otherwise) who stand out in front of Home Depots at 4 a.m. to get day labor jobs; their sons now own the small subcontracting, handyman and demolition crews that are the foundation of small construction here in this area. And we have the second- and third-generation Vietnamese whose parents rowed across the entire Pacific in leaky bathtubs who now run the entire city of Westminster and most of Long Beach.

These will not be the ones you hear complaining that their kids have too much homework or that tests to get into high school are unfair.
 
2012-10-28 05:57:44 PM

ThrobblefootSpectre: Fallout Boy: Why aren't anyone talking about this instead of the frivolous bs problems other races have?

Probably because problems experienced by other races aren't frivolous bs. Nice try, racist.


But they have to be frivolous. Otherwise people like you wouldn't think that they are comparable to the problems of white people.
 
2012-10-28 05:58:11 PM

megalynn44: So..... when it's a majority of Asians accomplishing something it's because they work harder. When it's a majority of caucasians accomplishing something the system is skewed and rigged to be unfair?


Considering caucasians own, set up and run that system, and are the majority of the population, that assumption could be plausible. Anyone else who succeeds within that system who is not a member of the majority group could be doing so in spite of their status in the social hierarchy, and not simply because of it.

You come to play a game of football. You're playing on someone else's home field, with their rules (which may not be written in a language you understand and could be changed at their discretion) and second hand equipment, in weather conditions unlike what you're used to and with referees paid for by them, and with a hometown crowd of people just like them in the stands.

Home field advantage, multiplied.
 
2012-10-28 05:58:28 PM
Clearly we need affirmative dis-action. We should FORCE a certain percentage of asian families to push the father of the household out so that there is no fatherly influence, make the mother have out-of-wedlock children by different fathers, make her quit her job and take a welfare check from the gubmint.

We can have racial equality in our lifetimes, peoples.
 
2012-10-28 06:03:20 PM

gerrymander: cmb53208: lewismarktwo: Too bad testing doesn't do anything but find the people who can memorize or test well. But who needs ingenuity?

And here we have the $64,000 question: rote learning (and cheating) gives one the ability to score well on tests. If you're not able to think on your feet and come up with solutions at a moment's notice, then what the hell good is a high test score?

I hate this argument, as it's almost certain proof that the proponent has completely forgotten how to learn.

"Thinking on your feet" isn't something that happens without a shiat-ton of scut work repeated over and over until it becomes second nature. How many great jazz musicians have there ever been from the first dane they pickup up an instrument? None, that's how many. Getting to the point of masterful improvisation takes years of playing scales and improving technique.

Same thing with everything else. You can't analyze history or poetry without knowing a damned lot about either. You can't create architecture without a reflexive understanding of a lot of math and material science. You can't even do your taxes if you can add and subtract correctly.

Schools test rote knowledge because rote knowledge matters, and it matters most as a well-placed building block to the people who are in the process of building a framework of education: students.


A pro basketball player didn't get to where he was without hours of tedious drills, freethrow shooting, and working in the gym.

Pablo Picasso didn't wake up one morning deciding to draw funny, he was in fact talented and practiced in older styles before his creative inventions.

We like to think that genius just arrives like a miracle stroke, ignoring the tedious hours and years of effort that lead to the payoff.
 
2012-10-28 06:03:39 PM

Fallout Boy: But they have to be frivolous.


*sigh* If you say so.
 
2012-10-28 06:04:58 PM

mmagdalene: Would I expect this from my own child? No, I don't think it's realistic and perhaps to his long-term economic detriment, I want him to grow up well-rounded rather than living in a pressurized environment where academic achievement is the only thing that matters. To me, it's more important to let kids have a happy childhood, exploring and learning naturally in a somewhat self-directed manner.


He (or she) will no doubt enjoy a career fetching coffee for grown-up "Chinese Son".
 
2012-10-28 06:07:16 PM

aesirx: mmagdalene: CSS time: One of my students arrived here from China three years ago, speaking no English. However, he has worked incredibly hard since his arrival (while also working full-time at his uncle's business in exchange for room and board), is taking a full load of Honors classes this year and will have his pick of top universities next fall.

Three main things have made the difference for him:

First, in China, he benefited from a world-class mathematics education beginning at age 4. Unlike the American system, math is taught is such a way that kids understand it and enjoy it. They're not turned off and frustrated by it, nor are they ever allowed to label themselves as "bad at math". That happens very early here, sometimes by second or third grade.

Having that strength has allowed him to feel successful in school and earn recognition for his efforts, which makes teachers and administrators invest in his success in other areas.


are you sure math is not genetic? I'm Asian and was insanely good at math. I mean, like, getting a 100% on a test when every other student scored 40%'s, literally. my brother and sister also excelled at computer science, but all of us were educated in America. our parents didn't even have that great of an education in China; by the time I was in like 7th grade, I was already surpassing them in academic ability.

And I have to second your point about math and confidence / connections. being able to answer every math question at the drop of a hat did wonderful things for me.


I always assumed the asian advantage in math was that math and science is the universal language. So for immigrants, it's not like picking up on the nuances of English lit, or the peculiarities of culture from wherever they go. It's simply focusing on the one thing that can be learned in their absence.*

*lots of scientific ideas arrive from cultural contexts, just saying that to understand the principles you don't necessarily have to be immersed in a xenoculture to get it.
 
2012-10-28 06:08:14 PM

aesirx: are you sure math is not genetic?


You are getting very close to pissing off a lot of feminists. :-) I'm not saying I'm disagreeing with you. Just letting you know.
 
2012-10-28 06:08:23 PM

Vectron: Marshal805: You never hear about anti-Asian sentiment as much as you do other prejudices.



Their like the one group you can mock without being called on it.

I think everybody pretty much likes Asians. I don't really like the new Chinese arrivals. I think Japanese and white people are especially compatible. They have many fine qualities to admire.


Stats show it's a common interracial marriage, so there may be something to that.
 
2012-10-28 06:15:55 PM

Fallout Boy: I never knew white people had it this rough. Why aren't anyone talking about this instead of the frivolous bs problems other races have?


There's only two acceptable responses to a white person talking about their problems:
1. "Check your privilege"
2. "Oh noes, what about the menz??" (obviously only applies if it's a white man)
 
2012-10-28 06:16:05 PM

theredsea1: Many Asians study constantly-12 hours a day. I bet if you compared apples to apples (whites and asians who study at the same rate) you'd find nearly matched success on tests.

Whites: study harder.



The study 12 hours a day thing is silly and Asians smirked for it is fair. Suppose someone said to be a bodybuilder, you have to lift 12 hours a day. They would be laughed out of the room. However, study 12 hours a day and people think it makes sense. Twiddling around for 12 hours isn't the right way, the right way to study intensely for a 4-5 hours at most per day. However, doesn't mean you can go have fun or do something else the rest of the day - you should be so exhausted after those 4-5 hours that all you can do is stare at the floor with unfocused glazed eyes. Sport science has advanced so far in giving us routines and training plans to achieve any goal, but for studying there is nothing but random unscientific suggestions that hardly ever work and studying 12-16 hours a day thing sounds to me like people saying do curls for 12 hours a day.
 
2012-10-28 06:17:42 PM

Marshal805: You never hear about anti-Asian sentiment as much as you do other prejudices.


Yellow, a book about what it's like to be Chinese in the USA, talked about this. Basically, he said that Asian-Americans are often thought of as a "model minority", which has some good things and bad things about it. He said that if an Asian experiences prejudice/discrimination, white folks won't pay attention because racism in the USA is thought of as a white vs. black thing, and Asians aren't really on the radar, and they should be.

And for the Asian schoolgirl part of the thread:
crow202.org
 
2012-10-28 06:19:28 PM

Fano: Vectron: Marshal805: You never hear about anti-Asian sentiment as much as you do other prejudices.



Their like the one group you can mock without being called on it.

I think everybody pretty much likes Asians. I don't really like the new Chinese arrivals. I think Japanese and white people are especially compatible. They have many fine qualities to admire.

Stats show it's a common interracial marriage, so there may be something to that.


It's a common interracial marriage for the same reason white men-Korean women are commonly intermarried. They are two Asian countries we have a large military presence (meaning young, single, lonely males), and the troops go off base to socialize, not patrol.
 
2012-10-28 06:22:00 PM

trekkiecougar: Buffet: Acceptance letter to a high school?? No such thing. You just go!
By the way, anyone know why they always wanna run around barefoot?
Them to me: Take off shoes befoe cumma in house/
Me to them: Fark no!

Think about it. When you're walking around outside you're walking on dirt, excrement, bugs, spittle, all kinds of nasty shiat. When you wear your outdoor shoes inside you're bringing in all of that nasty shiat on the soles of your shoe. Some time or another you're going to go barefoot inside, or have your baby crawling around on the floor. Wiping the shoes off with a floor mat doesn't get everything off.

Carpets don't have to be vacuumed as often, stay cleaner longer and floors don't have to be swept and mopped as often when the shoes are taken off at the door.

/can't stand a gritty floor!!!!


You make a valid point. I don't often wear mine inside. I USUALLY take 'em off in the garage. However if I have to dash back in momentarily, I'm not going through all that trouble. There are exceptions. They behave as if it's blasphemy, or some shiat?
Plus - I never request my houseguests to do so - that's Farkin' rude!
 
2012-10-28 06:37:49 PM

ThrobblefootSpectre: aesirx: are you sure math is not genetic?

You are getting very close to pissing off a lot of feminists. :-) I'm not saying I'm disagreeing with you. Just letting you know.


Being a woman, I'm pretty sure it is. But suggesting that the reason women don't go more for engineering and architecture and all that is because they don't like it is a good way to get your head bitten off by a lot of fierce women, so I never say that.
 
2012-10-28 06:49:54 PM

jayphat:

Umm, liberals in the 60's DID try to deny blacks the right to vote. Revisionist history is fun, yes?


No moron, southern democrats (dixiecrats) did. They were social conservatives, much like many republicans are now. In fact, many southern whites left the democratic party and joined the republican party (where they remain to this day) because a democrat president (from the south, no less) signed into law the rights of black people to vote and become full citizens of this country.
The liberals were down there marching and getting killed to make sure blacks had the right to vote.
All democrats have not been liberal, and all liberals have not been democrats.

Maybe you should actually learn some history before talking sh*t, dumbass.
 
2012-10-28 06:56:37 PM

aesirx: are you sure math is not genetic? I'm Asian and was insanely good at math. I mean, like, getting a 100% on a test when every other student scored 40%'s, literally. my brother and sister also excelled at computer science, but all of us were educated in America. our parents didn't even have that great of an education in China; by the time I was in like 7th grade, I was already surpassing them in academic ability.

And I have to second your point about math and confidence / connections. being able to answer every math question at the drop of a hat did wonderful things for me.



Gah! There are numerous research that shows that the human brain does not keep tabs on the skills it possesses. Suppose you got very good at math with lots of practice, your brain does not keep tabs on the practice and the only way to know your skill is to take a math test and see how much you score. There is no way for someone to just sit down and figure out how skilled they are and how they got there. So, acquiring the skill through lots of practice or through genetics feels exactly the same to the brain.

On a related note, for the future of your mathematics, if you perceive mathematical skill as innate, you are less likely to pursue harder mathematics in the future in contrast if you think that your mathematical skill is a result of effort. You will take easier classes to get 100%s so that you can reaffirm that you are good in mathematics. If you think you work hard in mathematics, you will take classes or attempt problems that will kick your ass and you will become better mathematician as a result. So, just your attitude might have strange consequences of how you attempt mathematics in the future.
 
2012-10-28 07:02:43 PM

Vectron: I think everybody pretty much likes Asians. I don't really like the new Chinese arrivals. I think Japanese and white people are especially compatible. They have many fine qualities to admire.


The general rule around here is that the whites, Japanese, and Koreans are integrated. There was some tension when the Koreans arrived to work on the factory lines. Also some tension when the Japanese auto companies moved in (as I'm in Michigan). However these days the Japanese are an accepted part of the auto industry (and less of douchebags than half the German manufacturers) so they're welcomed. As the Chinese arrive the general attitude is "Yeah they're running the dry cleaning for this generation, they'll be living beside us in the nice neighborhoods by the next one."

We actually have kind of the same thing NY has, where it is white and Asian vs black. Namely certain elements of the black community tried to get the Asians to take part in the whole "Whitey ruined Detroit!" thing and the Asian community wanted no part in that. The Asians moved into Ann Arbor and Oakland County with the white folk.

On the anecdotal note I once witnessed a fight where a black guy was screaming racist things at an Asian girl and two burly white autoworkers shut him up. Turned out the white dudes worked for an Asian parts supplier, so they had no issues with Asians, while the black guy was screaming about Asians being Uncle Toms and how minorities shouldn't be friends with white folk.

/our local white-black race relations are fairly farked up
 
2012-10-28 07:04:59 PM
My elementary school and high school were 1/3 Asian (mostly Korean).

Yes, they study harder generally than most other people. But the same could be said for the Jewish kids (which also was overrepresented in the AP classes).

Make of it what you will, but it drives me kind of bonkers when Asians aren't covered in affirmtive action because the are a "model minority". Either you are going to do affirmative action or you aren't, imho.

Mr. Right: My question is not why some ethnicities are more successful. My question is why is a school system able to make some schools elite and offer superior education not be able to bring all of their schools up to that level?


In an idealistic world this is true. But if you've ever spent time in a "bad" area, it becomes quite obvious that the needs of those students are different than the needs of middle and upper class kids.

My friend started a really great charity called Girl Meets World to teach underpriveledged girls (ages 10-14) about the skills they will need for the real world. I'm doing a presentation for the kids about professional etiquette. They never learned things like a handshake or making eye contact. That's what I'm teaching them. Others are working on nutrition (you'd be surprised how little they know) and another friend is teaching them about leadership in community organizing and so on and so forth. Now, some of these girls are very bright. If they were raised in a middle class home, they'd certainly be college bound. But low income girls don't have these type of women to look up to. They look forward (I'm not joking here) to get pregnant at 16 and live on the system for the rest of their lives. Now, I don't blame these kids as those choices are what they think is all they have. That is what they see in the world around them.

I would never have had to learn these very basic skills at my grade A public school because we learned these from the people AROUND us. Many low income people don't have that experience.

Hence, the education needed by lower income peoples is different from higher class kids. Are we accomplishing the education needs of the low income? Hell no. But offering a great education to the cream of the crop (of all income groups) we have done.

Particularly in NYC. My immigrant dad went to Stuyvesant and my mom went to Bronx High School of Science, both amazing public schools.
 
2012-10-28 07:06:03 PM

Gyrfalcon: Being a woman, I'm pretty sure it is. But suggesting that the reason women don't go more for engineering and architecture and all that is because they don't like it is a good way to get your head bitten off by a lot of fierce women, so I never say that.


My super engineer dad would bite your head off for that.

/he wanted me to be an engineer... I had no skills or interest
 
2012-10-28 07:12:46 PM
I wish I could find a sociology essay I wrote at Cal debunking the "Asian Model Minority" myth. At it's core it demonstrated that there were there distinct periods of immigration, resulting in three distinct family units. Further, it explored how the socio-economic status of recent immigrants had a much more significant effect on educational attainment than being in an asian family. Then again, if I posted my essay, would anyone read it?
 
2012-10-28 07:13:29 PM

danceswithcrows: And for the Asian schoolgirl part of the thread:


bless you...

All the rest of FARK has disappointed me.
 
2012-10-28 07:14:36 PM

Lollipop165: Gyrfalcon: Being a woman, I'm pretty sure it is. But suggesting that the reason women don't go more for engineering and architecture and all that is because they don't like it is a good way to get your head bitten off by a lot of fierce women, so I never say that.

My super engineer dad would bite your head off for that.

/he wanted me to be an engineer... I had no skills or interest


I've always believed that you don't go into engineering because you think it's a good idea, I think you become an engineer because you have to be an engineer and you were born that way.
 
2012-10-28 07:17:22 PM
How many of the kids that didn't make value sport or video games more than school? And how many of those schools buy new football uniforms but can't afford new science equipment?
 
2012-10-28 07:20:42 PM

Gyrfalcon: Being a woman, I'm pretty sure it is. But suggesting that the reason women don't go more for engineering and architecture and all that is because they don't like it is a good way to get your head bitten off by a lot of fierce women, so I never say that.


My older sister is uber old-school feminist. Beauty of motherhood, childbirth, tie dye rainbow shirts and free-range granola all the way. Uses her ivy league magna cum laude medical degree to do at home birth, for barter. She sees no conflict in celebrating all that is wonderful about femininity without having to tear down men.

I'm the engineer since early childhood, head always buried in a science book. She openly tells me, completely without malice, that she considers my life too "sterile", which I think is funny. While I think childbirth is icky and gross, which amuses her greatly. We have an mutual acceptance of our differences, while gently chiding each other. She can utterly destroy me at scrabble, and I could give her rook knight odds in chess and still dominate the game without trying. It's a cool yin yang. I just like making the occasional "woman driver" joke around her, to tease her a bit.

/no real point to any of this CSB, I suppose
/except maybe feminism doesn't have to be about being angry all the time
 
2012-10-28 07:23:28 PM

Uchiha_Cycliste: I wish I could find a sociology essay I wrote at Cal debunking the "Asian Model Minority" myth. At it's core it demonstrated that there were there distinct periods of immigration, resulting in three distinct family units. Further, it explored how the socio-economic status of recent immigrants had a much more significant effect on educational attainment than being in an asian family. Then again, if I posted my essay, would anyone read it?


I would read it. I do agree with the general pattern of immigration: I think of Caribbean and African immigrants that do well compared to people of African descent present here for years. Immigrants simply have drive and a reason to succeed.
 
2012-10-28 07:27:32 PM

Fano: I would read it. I do agree with the general pattern of immigration: I think of Caribbean and African immigrants that do well compared to people of African descent present here for years. Immigrants simply have drive and a reason to succeed.


I've never met more racist people against African Americans than recent African and Caribbean immigrants.
 
2012-10-28 07:40:17 PM

Uchiha_Cycliste: I wish I could find a sociology essay I wrote at Cal debunking the "Asian Model Minority" myth. [...] Then again, if I posted my essay, would anyone read it?


The number of people on Fark who'd read the whole essay would depend on the number of JPEGs of Asian models within the essay:
crow202.org
OTOH, if you were to take the essay and summarize it in 3 or 4 paragraphs, I think some folks would read the summary and maybe learn some stuff and/or be exposed to things they didn't always think about. Fark comments don't lend themselves to magnum opuses since we've all got really short attention sp ---SQUIRREL!
 
2012-10-28 07:53:24 PM

danceswithcrows: Uchiha_Cycliste: I wish I could find a sociology essay I wrote at Cal debunking the "Asian Model Minority" myth. [...] Then again, if I posted my essay, would anyone read it?

The number of people on Fark who'd read the whole essay would depend on the number of JPEGs of Asian models within the essay:
[crow202.org image 484x646]
OTOH, if you were to take the essay and summarize it in 3 or 4 paragraphs, I think some folks would read the summary and maybe learn some stuff and/or be exposed to things they didn't always think about. Fark comments don't lend themselves to magnum opuses since we've all got really short attention sp ---SQUIRREL!



I didn't read what you wrote but I would like to lock her up in my basement for a few years.
 
2012-10-28 07:54:05 PM

danceswithcrows: Uchiha_Cycliste: I wish I could find a sociology essay I wrote at Cal debunking the "Asian Model Minority" myth. [...] Then again, if I posted my essay, would anyone read it?

The number of people on Fark who'd read the whole essay would depend on the number of JPEGs of Asian models within the essay:
[crow202.org image 484x646]
OTOH, if you were to take the essay and summarize it in 3 or 4 paragraphs, I think some folks would read the summary and maybe learn some stuff and/or be exposed to things they didn't always think about. Fark comments don't lend themselves to magnum opuses since we've all got really short attention sp ---SQUIRREL!


I don't think I can summarize it like that, I'll try to find it and see what I can do .
 
2012-10-28 08:00:30 PM
Asians are 14% of the city's students but win 60% of the seats to elite high schools in a competitive exam. Do other ethnic groups A) Study harder, B) Learn from Asian culture, or C) File a lawsuit?


A certain group is X% of the population, but occupies Y% of the population in prisons.
Do they A) Stop breaking the law B) Take advantage of Educational Opportunities C) File lawsuits
 
2012-10-28 08:30:33 PM
I don't think I can find a soft-copy. God damnit...
 
2012-10-28 08:32:55 PM

Vectron: I didn't read what you wrote


That's OK; if you'd like to look at JPEGs instead of text, we have that too. (Possibly NSFW, depending.)

Uchiha_Cycliste: I don't think I can summarize it like that, I'll try to find it and see what I can do .


I think I'd read the essay whether it was summarized or a gigantic Wall-O-Text. I don't have a problem reading giant walls of text, though, and it seems like a bunch of other folks will say "TL; DR" when confronted with really long essays. YMMV I guess.
 
2012-10-28 08:47:33 PM

danceswithcrows: Vectron: I didn't read what you wrote

That's OK; if you'd like to look at JPEGs instead of text, we have that too. (Possibly NSFW, depending.)

Uchiha_Cycliste: I don't think I can summarize it like that, I'll try to find it and see what I can do .

I think I'd read the essay whether it was summarized or a gigantic Wall-O-Text. I don't have a problem reading giant walls of text, though, and it seems like a bunch of other folks will say "TL; DR" when confronted with really long essays. YMMV I guess.


Much thanks! Wasn't dissing what you wrote. Just immediately went into fantasy mode with that little girl.
 
2012-10-28 08:50:54 PM

danceswithcrows: That's OK; if you'd like to look at JPEGs instead of text, we have that too. (Possibly NSFW, depending.)


youmademesayit.com

Oh my lawd I... Holy... Uhmmm that's.... Uhh... Hurrrrrrr......
 
2012-10-28 08:51:29 PM
The subtext of racism is strong in this thread! Let us not forget the socioeconomic issues that drive much of this.

The solution is encouraging childbirth for couples that actually want to raise productive citizens.

-free contraception
-free abortion
-limit scope of food stamp purchases to a very narrow range of food products
 
2012-10-28 08:52:23 PM

Uchiha_Cycliste: I've always believed that you don't go into engineering because you think it's a good idea, I think you become an engineer because you have to be an engineer and you were born that way.


As someone who spent Saturday night writing an app to combine photos into HDR images... yeah.

/surprisingly easy with well-aligned images
//now I need to add alignment through afine transformations
 
2012-10-28 08:55:20 PM

danceswithcrows: Vectron: I didn't read what you wrote

That's OK; if you'd like to look at JPEGs instead of text, we have that too. (Possibly NSFW, depending.)


Great googly moogly...
 
2012-10-28 09:28:01 PM

Lollipop165: Make of it what you will, but it drives me kind of bonkers when Asians aren't covered in affirmtive action because the are a "model minority". Either you are going to do affirmative action or you aren't, imho.


They are covered by the tolerance scheme. Gooks are weeded out because they are overrepresented, and a campus can't have too many of those people without looking different than the rest of America. We can't have that, can we?

/progress!
 
2012-10-28 09:35:42 PM

apachevoyeur: The subtext of racism is strong in this thread! Let us not forget the socioeconomic issues that drive much of this.

The solution is encouraging childbirth for couples that actually want to raise productive citizens.

-free contraception
-free abortion
-limit scope of food stamp purchases to a very narrow range of food products



I believe this is a pretty good summation of the origins of Planned Parenthood. Margaret Sanger was a proponent of eugenics.
 
2012-10-28 09:56:37 PM

XYNHR: Can't we just cut the Occam's razor and say that asians > whites > blacks as far as smarts (and vice versa as far as dick size), and call it a day?


I don't think that's the case. I think it's a matter of how hard they try.
 
2012-10-28 10:04:14 PM

Loren: XYNHR: Can't we just cut the Occam's razor and say that asians > whites > blacks as far as smarts (and vice versa as far as dick size), and call it a day?

I don't think that's the case. I think it's a matter of how hard they try.


A little bit of both, my daughter was able to remember everything said in a class and did little studying. Some of the kids hated her for doing so well with little effort.
 
2012-10-28 10:10:44 PM
I remember the days when people were better than you at something you used that as motivation to work harder to get what you wanted. I guess that is too logical and moral for today's society. I don't "hate" as a rule. It is not a part of my personality or moral fiber, but I hate that America has become so lawsuit happy. It's really a shame. The people that got into this thing because of this should be ashamed of themselves, and I hope they're at the very bottom of the barrel. Serves them right.
 
2012-10-28 10:26:54 PM

RodneyToady: Chariset: Wait: so white people want... affirmative action?

I don't think white people are leading the charge on this one.

There may be a hidden factor here as well. I don't think it's simply "Asian" vs. "not Asian." I think it's also "immigrant" vs "non-immigrant." While my parents (immigrant Sicilian father) didn't push me to take this test, they still pushed me hard to achieve academically. I got into the public Queens equivalent, and went to what is likely the best Catholic high school in the county (possibly the city). My friends, also children of immigrants, were pushed in much the same way. Race/ethnicity wasn't the driver... immigrant parents was.


I used to work in an after school coaching college where children did extra school work after school hours. Almost all of the enrolled students were the children of immigrants, most of them Korean and Chinese. There were also some Lebanese kids, but very few white non-immigrant children.

I also used to work in Korea and noticed that everyone over there is very keen on education, including science. I mentioned science because Koreans are the most religious Christians I have ever come across. There is literally a church on every block.
 
2012-10-28 11:23:58 PM

Vectron: I didn't read what you wrote but I would like to lock her up in my basement for a few years.


More of her (probably NSFW)
and moar (probably NSFW)
 
2012-10-29 01:28:55 AM

Fish in a Barrel: As someone who spent Saturday night writing an app to combine photos into HDR images... yeah.

/surprisingly easy with well-aligned images
//now I need to add alignment through affine transformations


Guessing you're not Asian...
 
2012-10-29 02:03:20 AM

theredsea1: Many Asians study constantly-12 hours a day. I bet if you compared apples to oranges (whites and those that study in unfree education systems such as tracking) you'd find no valid conclusion.

Whites: sue more until the apologists for educational tracking stop.


FTFY. The only thing that this proves is that educational tracking/banding/etc. needs to die a nasty death. White, Asian, Hispanic, African-American, or whatever - no net benefit comes from using a test that ends up tracking someone for a lifetime of drudgery.

Oh, and before you bring in the PISA tests, remember that they do not control for openness of admissions.
 
2012-10-29 02:08:29 AM

DrewCurtisJr: RminusQ: Here's why there's a fully justified lawsuit. Admission to the elite schools is based ONLY on a single exam, and that exam has shown little to no correlation to actual performance in the elite high school.

You can complain about the exam all you want but the fact is any object measure of academic achievement is not going to get them the results they want. They will want racial set asides, or proxy racial set asides like using zip codes or what elementary school they graduated from, so they are not judged by the same standards as the other students.


That presumes it is objective. It is not given the original intent.
 
2012-10-29 02:49:34 AM

martid4: [seemslegit.com image 750x600]


Would be funnier if the characters on the board behind him don't appear to say "naikaku senkyo" (cabinet election).

So more accurately "Because your social studies isn't going to do itself".
 
2012-10-29 03:05:56 AM

ParagonComplex: I remember the days when people were better than you at something you used that as motivation to work harder to get what you wanted. I guess that is too logical and moral for today's society. I don't "hate" as a rule. It is not a part of my personality or moral fiber, but I hate that America has become so lawsuit happy. It's really a shame. The people that got into this thing because of this should be ashamed of themselves, and I hope they're at the very bottom of the barrel. Serves them right.


No matter their position, litigating one's way in is always acceptable for overcoming the limitations of educational banding.
 
2012-10-29 07:11:55 AM
For those that hit the paywall, try this proxy site. NY times and others only allow an IP address a certain amount of pageviews per month.
 
2012-10-29 07:13:58 AM
Whoops. Would help to have the address huh?:

http://anonymouse.org/anonwww.html
 
2012-10-29 09:39:55 AM
Anyone who thinks "Asian" is a monolithic bloc really needs to meet some young Koreans. I hate to be stereotypical, but they basically revel in being wiggers. (Kiggers?) You can find them across all Asian nationalities, but it's really concentrated in Koreans for some reason.
 
2012-10-29 09:56:48 AM

JesusJuice: Easy fix: include an essay component. Asians are great at memorizing tests, but original thinking? Not so much.


Because there aren't any essays in every single college prep course, literature courses, social studies courses, or college entrance applications? That must be why Asians aren't accepted into colleges then.
 
2012-10-29 11:04:26 AM

sethstorm: That presumes it is objective. It is not given the original intent.


How do you figure? What was the original intent?
 
2012-10-29 01:45:52 PM

DrewCurtisJr: sethstorm: That presumes it is objective. It is not given the original intent.

How do you figure? What was the original intent?


The original intent was to remove minorities. However, that test did not control for participants from unfree education systems (such as Asian "one test determines your life" tracking systems) and thus caused the test to deviate from the intended effect

Either way, the only good solution is to remove the test and implement quotas based on education system - where those used to tracked systems are penalized while those under the US system(including whites not otherwise covered by minority status) would be on the good side.
 
2012-10-29 02:17:48 PM

sethstorm: The original intent was to remove minorities. However, that test did not control for participants from unfree education systems (such as Asian "one test determines your life" tracking systems) and thus caused the test to deviate from the intended effect


That is too simplistic to say just, it was just to keep minorities out. It was too keep poor blacks and latinos out. The test could be perfectly objective, test for academic ability, and achieve this result.
 
2012-10-29 11:43:33 PM

smitty04: Loren: XYNHR: Can't we just cut the Occam's razor and say that asians > whites > blacks as far as smarts (and vice versa as far as dick size), and call it a day?

I don't think that's the case. I think it's a matter of how hard they try.

A little bit of both, my daughter was able to remember everything said in a class and did little studying. Some of the kids hated her for doing so well with little effort.


There certainly are differences between individuals. I don't think there are differences between races, though.

sethstorm: That presumes it is objective. It is not given the original intent.


[Citation needed]
 
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