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(The New York Times)   Their secret? Beans, fish, wine, naps and sex   (nytimes.com) divider line 63
    More: Cool, Greek Orthodox, good cholesterol, blood circulation, sea lanes, Mediterranean diet, vineyards, demographer, coronary heart disease  
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8621 clicks; posted to Geek » on 28 Oct 2012 at 7:44 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-28 07:50:43 AM
Stay a while and listen...
 
2012-10-28 08:04:28 AM
Should do the sex before the naps, but whatever floats your boat I guess.
 
2012-10-28 08:30:23 AM

HawaiiE: Should do the sex before the naps


Definitely the beans AFTER the sex, though.
 
2012-10-28 08:32:45 AM
I think most importantly: they get up when their body tells them to and are not blasted awake by a loud annoying noise every morning.

Good luck pulling that one off, worker bee.
 
2012-10-28 09:07:15 AM

lewismarktwo: I think most importantly: they get up when their body tells them to and are not blasted awake by a loud annoying noise every morning.


lewismarktwo: I think most importantly: they get up when their body tells them to and are not blasted awake by a loud annoying noise every morning.


lewismarktwo: I think most importantly: they get up when their body tells them to and are not blasted awake by a loud annoying noise every morning.

 
2012-10-28 09:17:10 AM
I see a lot of things about their lifestyle that could help explain a longer life expectancy, though I think focusing on living longer is sort of missing the point. While most of the people there are technically monetarily poor, I'd wager that none of them feel like they're missing out on much, and their quality and enjoyment of life far exceeds that of most of the rest of the world. (Though I could be wrong)

I think that is a great failing of modern civilization. All of the increased production capabilities we've got, and yet there's less leisure time and we're in a bigger hurry than ever. Even in recreational activities people are in a huge hurry.

I like to go kayaking. I go down a local river that's pretty easymode. There are a few little tiny rapids that you can fall out in if you're horribly uncoordinated, but for the most part the river does all the work and you can just relax in the boat and look at the trees and birds and what not. Yet virtually every person I see on the river is paddling their asses off like they've got somewhere to be. Just calm the fark down and smoke a bowl and enjoy life, you're turning recreation into work.

Or maybe I'm just weird. But I'd sure as hell like to live on this island, fark the rat race.
 
2012-10-28 09:23:39 AM
a lot in the article reminded me of things my Mom told me about her grandparents. simple Czechs that worked on farms, grew their own fruits & vegetables at home and made their own wine. another key thing from the article was the air & water. those folks have not ruined their little patch of mother earth.

here in the land of milk & honey we have way more than we need. not necessarily a good thing. i've met very few people that lived simple lives. i've never met a person who lived off the land. we are not allowed that. it only exists in movies.
 
2012-10-28 09:23:48 AM

lewismarktwo: I think most importantly: they get up when their body tells them to and are not blasted awake by a loud annoying noise every morning.


I haven't had an alarm clock since the 80s.

i get home, usually fall asleep by 9-10pm, wake up around 1am, poke around for a couple hours, go back to sleep, wake up around 5-6am, lazily get ready for work.
 
2012-10-28 09:26:58 AM
Repeated reference to potatoes as part of their traditional diet...
And what did they eat before this new world tuber showed up? And what variety are they eating?

lewismarktwo: Good luck pulling that one off, worker bee.


Might partly explain why a queen lives for years and workers die after 60 days.
 
2012-10-28 09:43:25 AM
Us Merkins! Must consume meatz all timie. Must consume all meatz in store.
 
2012-10-28 10:12:05 AM

lewismarktwo: I think most importantly: they get up when their body tells them to and are not blasted awake by a loud annoying noise every morning.

Good luck pulling that one off, worker bee.


I'm always in a much better mood when I'm allowed to sleep.

If I don't get sleep...

Be afraid.......
 
2012-10-28 10:12:35 AM
Fish isn't meat?

I never understood that. FRish have brains and spines and muscles and stuff. They don't have roots or spores. Fish are meat.
 
2012-10-28 10:23:43 AM

Mister Peejay: Fish isn't meat?

I never understood that. FRish have brains and spines and muscles and stuff. They don't have roots or spores. Fish are meat.


In this sort of context meat refers to red meat. Like beef. Chicken works this way too. Not sure on pork. It's a sometimes meat maybe?

What will really get you later is how driveways and parkways are used.
 
2012-10-28 10:33:32 AM

Eddie Ate Dynamite: I see a lot of things about their lifestyle that could help explain a longer life expectancy, though I think focusing on living longer is sort of missing the point. While most of the people there are technically monetarily poor, I'd wager that none of them feel like they're missing out on much, and their quality and enjoyment of life far exceeds that of most of the rest of the world. (Though I could be wrong)

I think that is a great failing of modern civilization. All of the increased production capabilities we've got, and yet there's less leisure time and we're in a bigger hurry than ever. Even in recreational activities people are in a huge hurry.

I like to go kayaking. I go down a local river that's pretty easymode. There are a few little tiny rapids that you can fall out in if you're horribly uncoordinated, but for the most part the river does all the work and you can just relax in the boat and look at the trees and birds and what not. Yet virtually every person I see on the river is paddling their asses off like they've got somewhere to be. Just calm the fark down and smoke a bowl and enjoy life, you're turning recreation into work.

Or maybe I'm just weird. But I'd sure as hell like to live on this island, fark the rat race.


I think you're doing it right. And I'd go paddling with you any time.

I used to visit friends in Midcoast Maine now and then, and I was struck by the off-season lifestyle of year-round permanent Midcoasters. (In season, the local economy turns on tourism, which is a very busy time of year, so that doesn't apply here.) Mainers, I found, don't waste anything, including time: they get everything done, every day. And yet, they're never in a hurry. Much of the furniture and tools they use is archaic by conventional American standards. Yet, it works as well as anything else, and in some ways is more reliable and less hassle. Most Mainers I know don't worry about the power going out, because they don't depend on it the way most of us do. No Internet? Read a book. Internet back? Read a book anyway. It's a low-key, close-to-the-earth lifestyle that's just as productive as any other, but less frenetic and distracting, more focused on self and community. Like the sign says, it's the way life should be.
 
2012-10-28 10:43:35 AM

AMonkey'sUncle: Us Merkins! Must consume meatz all timie. Must consume all meatz in store.


A Merkin is a pubic hair piece. You mean 'Merkin.
 
2012-10-28 10:50:45 AM

Mister Peejay: lewismarktwo: I think most importantly: they get up when their body tells them to and are not blasted awake by a loud annoying noise every morning.

I haven't had an alarm clock since the 80s.

i get home, usually fall asleep by 9-10pm, wake up around 1am, poke around for a couple hours, go back to sleep, wake up around 5-6am, lazily get ready for work.


An article on here awhile back suggested that the two-sleep pattern is our actual natural pattern, and was the way pretty much everyone lived up until quite recently. I often do it, too, and I sleep much better for it when I do. It does require being able to afford that much time -- nine or ten hours in all, typically, at least for me. So this then indicts the American lifestyle, which does not tolerate such 'lazy' habits. I don't mind indicting my own country's unhealthy and asinine cultural standards. (I used to drive around naked, too. Why? Because why the fark not, that's why. Still drive barefoot sometimes.)

I think the entire developed world needs to take a step back and ask what we're doing right now that's depriving us of the better living our modern world was supposed to give us. If you ask me, working too much and too hard is bad for us. Our ancient ancestors worked only a few hours a day, and enjoyed much more leisure and enjoyment for it. And what is the point of life, if not enjoyment? I don't mean that in a hedonistic way, which I think is at least as unhealthy as working oneself to death. I mean that everyone in this country is working too hard to make a living to have a life. And that's not living, as far as I'm concerned; that's just surviving. People say they're doing it so they can enjoy it later. But why not enjoy it now? A year or two at a time, I can see? But twenty or thirty or forty in a row? That's your whole prime of life, and you're wasting it on a nebulous future you can't really know that you'll get to see and enjoy.

I say that we should all make an effort to enjoy life right here, right now -- today and every day, and for our whole lives. Otherwise, what's the point of it all? I don't care what anyone says, wealth is not happiness. But happiness IS wealth. You can work for wealth and hope for happiness, and maybe get it and maybe not. Or, you can work for happiness, and have both right away. Like George Burns said, find a job you love, and you'll never work another day. Shouldn't THAT be the goal? I'm not saying that jobs like ditch-digging are going to be deeply fulfilling. What I am saying is that ten or twelve hours in front of a computer monitor pushing numbers around is not what we are evolved to do, and cannot provide human fulfillment, meaning, or the kind of personal wealth that really matters -- the ability to enjoy living. And ditch-diggers can have that, too: that's pretty much the thesis of 'Office Space'.

It's my understanding that our frenetic, destructive American lifestyle is driven by competition: You have to work hard because someone *else* is, and they'll "get ahead" of you if you don't also. I used to buy that. I don't anymore. Because I eventually realised that the "get ahead" part has mostly to do with comparative nominitive wealth that may or may not really matter, and I don't think it really does. Wealth is having more than you need, and so if you're working for even more than that, you'll see diminishing returns on investment (a concept most hard-working people should understand) in terms of *the real wealth that matters*. You might get a fake bank balance (or, you know, maybe not), but you're sure to work very hard, for whatever you do or don't get. Is that how life should be? Maybe getting ahead isn't that important after all. Maybe it's more important to actually enjoy living.
 
2012-10-28 10:57:35 AM
FAT bank balance, I meant. Urgh, I really need to proofread more.
 
2012-10-28 11:04:05 AM

Eddie Ate Dynamite: Mister Peejay: Fish isn't meat?

I never understood that. FRish have brains and spines and muscles and stuff. They don't have roots or spores. Fish are meat.

In this sort of context meat refers to red meat. Like beef. Chicken works this way too. Not sure on pork. It's a sometimes meat maybe?

What will really get you later is how driveways and parkways are used.


In farming and rural communities I've been familiar with, "meat" is the flesh of ruminants -- in common urban parlance, it's synonymous with "red meat." Pigs are not ruminants, and obviously poultry and fish are not either. The distinction is made, I understand, due to the different nutritional aspects of each. A proper diet must make the distinction, because they are not nutritional substitutes for each other.
 
2012-10-28 11:09:51 AM

p4p3rm4t3: Stay a while and listen...


The sanctity of this place has been fouled.
 
2012-10-28 11:12:12 AM
I think an important aspect that they are missing is personality types. Emigration allows those that are more high strung or are more ambitious to leave thus lowering stress rlated illness. Many people that immigrated to america are usually type-A's that happily work themselves into an early grave. Then their children come out as a mixture of personality types, though genetically they would be predisposed to being overly intense.

/from an unmotivated,overly obsessive point of view
 
2012-10-28 11:13:54 AM
it's a trap, all the sex is with greek women...
 
2012-10-28 11:35:02 AM

proteus_b: it's a trap, all the sex is with greek women...


Trolling for people to post pics of hot Greek women?

/i hope it works
 
2012-10-28 11:49:21 AM

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: Mister Peejay: lewismarktwo: I think most importantly: they get up when their body tells them to and are not blasted awake by a loud annoying noise every morning.

I haven't had an alarm clock since the 80s.


I say that we should all make an effort to enjoy life ...


Lovely post and I agree with you 100%
 
2012-10-28 11:51:05 AM
You can start living healthy by making your own lacto fermented pickles and other vegetables.

The Perfect Pickler, Pickle Pro and others are variations on a theme--they're basically a lid with a gasket and an airlock. You supply the quart or half-gallon jar (I think they sell kits that include the jar). And the brine (1 rounded Tablespoon of Sea Salt to 2 cups of non-chlorinated Water makes a quart of pickles). And the spices. You put it all in a jar (no heating or canning). put the jar in a bowl to catch any leaks, put them in a dark place at 75 degrees for a few days, take off the airlock lid, replace it with the conventional canning jar lid and ring, then put it in your refrigerator. Nummy. And you don't need a crock and you don't need to skim.

I pickled small tomatoes with dill and onion rings (quart at a time), cabbage and onion rings (half gallon at time) and dill pickles like you get at traditional delis.

Lacto fermentation makes pickles that are different than vinegar-cured, pasteurized pickled stuff we eat today. They are supposedly very good for you and besides the cabbage leaves and onion rings I ferment with pickling spice taste great on roast beef or pastrami sandwiches.

I'm not pimping it but here's a pick of one of the fermenters available

www.perfectpickler.com
 
2012-10-28 11:52:52 AM
And if you want to make your own cheese, you can make it with just milk and lemon juice as the curdling agent. Paneer, the traditional Indian cheese, is often made that way. YouTube has videos on how to make it.
 
2012-10-28 12:10:15 PM

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: You can start living healthy by making your own lacto fermented pickles and other vegetables.

The Perfect Pickler, Pickle Pro and others are variations on a theme--they're basically a lid with a gasket and an airlock. You supply the quart or half-gallon jar (I think they sell kits that include the jar). And the brine (1 rounded Tablespoon of Sea Salt to 2 cups of non-chlorinated Water makes a quart of pickles). And the spices. You put it all in a jar (no heating or canning). put the jar in a bowl to catch any leaks, put them in a dark place at 75 degrees for a few days, take off the airlock lid, replace it with the conventional canning jar lid and ring, then put it in your refrigerator. Nummy. And you don't need a crock and you don't need to skim.

I pickled small tomatoes with dill and onion rings (quart at a time), cabbage and onion rings (half gallon at time) and dill pickles like you get at traditional delis.

Lacto fermentation makes pickles that are different than vinegar-cured, pasteurized pickled stuff we eat today. They are supposedly very good for you and besides the cabbage leaves and onion rings I ferment with pickling spice taste great on roast beef or pastrami sandwiches.

I'm not pimping it but here's a pick of one of the fermenters available

[www.perfectpickler.com image 247x320]


Account created 1 month ago.

"not pimping"

pushes product...
 
2012-10-28 12:17:22 PM

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: You can start living healthy by making your own lacto fermented pickles and other vegetables.


When I want to pickle vegetables, I dip celery in rum before eating it.
 
2012-10-28 12:24:09 PM

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: I'm not pimping it but here's a pick of one of the fermenters available


It's a lid with a gasket for the bubblers I use to brew with. And I have that sauce cup in large numbers.

And they want $20+ for that? I see $3 worth of parts. Nice marketing.

Seriously, that airlock is $1.35 retail. The 2oz sauce cup is about 40 cents. I don't know how cheap you can get the lids but that's a ten cent gasket.
 
2012-10-28 12:40:46 PM
Go figure. To listen to some vocal Farkers, the secret is to starve yourself, cut your nuts off, and REALLY REALLY hate anything to do with space exploration.

Something new every day, I suppose.

/ is not at all surprised that people who live with low stress live longer.
 
2012-10-28 12:41:58 PM
Naps? Cutting back on stuff? Working less? There's a whole lot of commie talk in this thread.

/nice life, but lousy fashion sense
 
2012-10-28 01:39:21 PM

Mister Peejay: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: You can start living healthy by making your own lacto fermented pickles and other vegetables.

When I want to pickle vegetables, I dip celery in rum before eating it.


Well, I have no problem with that approach. I myself sometimes flavor my green olives with gin.
 
2012-10-28 01:44:22 PM
YOU'VE REACHED YOUR LIMIT OF 10 FREE ARTICLES THIS MONTH. SUBSCRIBE TO CONTINUE READING.

Welp, fark the NY times. I've reached my limit of website subscriptions that I can tolerate.
 
2012-10-28 01:50:20 PM
Pimping? Me. I'm a farking alt not a troll and not a pimp.

The reason why I mentioned the two specific brands and mentioned there were others like them was to demonstrate you don't have to go out and buy a $200 crock made in Germany to ferment vegetables. Plus with the crock you have to refill the water lid, open it up, skim regularly, etc. Plus the weight. Plus the fact the huge crocks scratch the living crap out of anything--counter tops, tile, tabletops, etc--you put them on. Can you put a towel those behemoths? Sure and induce different bacteria to grow in your kraut or other fermented vegetables. Everything you can do in one of those overpriced you can do in a quart jar or half gallon jar that fits in your refrigerator--just in smaller batches.

Now, since I've been called a pimp I'll mention where I bought three air locks, three lids with grommets, three gaskets for around $10 including shipping. What they don't include and what some of the picklers I talked about do include are recipe books and enough sea salt to make several batches.

Now I'm going to enjoy my nice fresh fermented tomatoes with dill and onions and think about the next time I try to share about such a delicious, refreshing addition to my healthy lifestyle*

/*excluding the gin and pastrami and the hookers
 
2012-10-28 01:57:23 PM
Oh and as a follow up to my paneer cheese post, I find the best paneer I've made was made with Tuscan Milk.

Read the reviews here.
 

But I ain't pimpin.
 
2012-10-28 02:11:51 PM
I'm not familiar with this whole lactofermentation thing, but just on reading this thread I'm wondering if an old school pressure-cooker couldn't provide the sealed, sanitary environment *and* allow you to can whatever you produced?

/ just guessing here. I grew up in a house that smelled of kraut and pickles, and I have a pressure cooker.
 
2012-10-28 02:27:48 PM
FTA:
"As soon as you take culture, belonging, purpose or religion out of the picture, the foundation for long healthy lives collapses. "

you know what this means?

Farkers gonna die young!
 
2012-10-28 02:36:59 PM

lewismarktwo: I think most importantly: they get up when their body tells them to and are not blasted awake by a loud annoying noise every morning.


There is no "most importantly"; just about everything they do is different from the "American dream". And as for everyone meddling with my life? No thanks; I've been marginalized enough.

The interesting thing about the "Blue Zones" is that they are on very different parts of the world. While they haven't verified the scientific reasons all the way, this fortunately makes it relatively easy to sift out the chaff (TFA is accurate in that these people really don't know why they live so long) and narrow it down to a few lifestyle factors:

Physically active lifestyle - They don't have exercise routines; exercise is built into the lifestyle.
Low stress level - The communities are never in a hurry. There's neither materialism nor famine.
Legume-based diet - Healthiest source of calories on the planet.
Purpose over poison - They have a reason to get up in the morning; they do not rely on any substance to get them through the day.

Some correlate; such as social engagement often leads to lower stress levels. . . but it can also increase them. From what I can tell, Blue Zones have prioritized social circles. They don't postpone a date to look good in front of a boss, or keep up on FB to avoid offending a busybody. I think the key thing here is that these places offer nothing to those who don't want to live there. There are no clubs or convenience stores or cars; that gets a lot of people to avoid these places.

I'm trying to steer my life in a similar direction and man, it's tough. Pretty much any job these days involves lots of stress, I don't have the land to farm, the healthy brands we find are constantly being taken off the market, and these choices lead to social isolation. I would say our stress and health are much better than average, though.
 
2012-10-28 02:45:46 PM

maxheck: Go figure. To listen to some vocal Farkers, the secret is to starve yourself, cut your nuts off, and REALLY REALLY hate anything to do with space exploration.

Something new every day, I suppose.

/ is not at all surprised that people who live with low stress live longer.


Actually there was scientific study on how cutting your nuts off will make you live longer.
 
2012-10-28 02:53:23 PM

whither_apophis: Naps? Cutting back on stuff? Working less? There's a whole lot of commie talk in this thread.

/nice life, but lousy fashion sense


Maybe that's the secret:

Ikaria's unusual past may explain its communal inclinations. The strong winds that buffet the island - mentioned in the "Iliad" - and the lack of natural harbors kept it outside the main shipping lanes for most of its history. This forced Ikaria to be self-sufficient. Then in the late 1940s, after the Greek Civil War, the government exiled thousands of Communists and radicals to the island. Nearly 40 percent of adults, many of them disillusioned with the high unemployment rate and the dwindling trickle of resources from Athens, still vote for the local Communist Party. About 75 percent of the population on Ikaria is under 65. The youngest adults, many of whom come home after college, often live in their parents' home. They typically have to cobble together a living through small jobs and family support.
 
2012-10-28 02:54:14 PM
Theory Of Null:

maxheck: Go figure. To listen to some vocal Farkers, the secret is to starve yourself, cut your nuts off, and REALLY REALLY hate anything to do with space exploration.

Something new every day, I suppose.

/ is not at all surprised that people who live with low stress live longer.

Actually there was scientific study on how cutting your nuts off will make you live longer.


I know that, and in fact there's a huge body of evidence that neutered non-human animals live longer lives. I was just tweaking a particular Farker who's response in a Fark thread probably about the study you listed was pretty much "Where's my knife?"

He has other quirks, which you might guess from my posting.
 
2012-10-28 03:09:08 PM

Eddie Ate Dynamite: All of the increased production capabilities we've got, and yet there's less leisure time and we're in a bigger hurry than ever. Even in recreational activities people are in a huge hurry.


Bolded for truth....

/ CSB: I see this all the time on weekend day-hikes, geared-up people rushing through content ( if I can borrow that from the MMO crowd...)
 
2012-10-28 03:34:16 PM

Nickninja: YOU'VE REACHED YOUR LIMIT OF 10 FREE ARTICLES THIS MONTH. SUBSCRIBE TO CONTINUE READING.

Welp, fark the NY times. I've reached my limit of website subscriptions that I can tolerate.


I seem to be able to get by that by deleting cookies/cache
 
2012-10-28 03:35:29 PM
Forbidden Doughnut:

Eddie Ate Dynamite: All of the increased production capabilities we've got, and yet there's less leisure time and we're in a bigger hurry than ever. Even in recreational activities people are in a huge hurry.

Bolded for truth....

/ CSB: I see this all the time on weekend day-hikes, geared-up people rushing through content ( if I can borrow that from the MMO crowd...)


There's a fetish for growth. Must grow the GDP, must grow the amount we have in our account, must have the bigger house, anything to fill the empty spaces.

Economic growth is the magic word.

99% of the world isn't poor until they move to cities in search of that., if you figure it in terms of full bellies and a roof over your head. There are so many households with no cash to their name, but they're a lot better off than anyone in say, NYC with 5 dollars.
 
2012-10-28 03:37:03 PM

Eddie Ate Dynamite: I see a lot of things about their lifestyle that could help explain a longer life expectancy, though I think focusing on living longer is sort of missing the point. While most of the people there are technically monetarily poor, I'd wager that none of them feel like they're missing out on much, and their quality and enjoyment of life far exceeds that of most of the rest of the world. (Though I could be wrong)

I think that is a great failing of modern civilization. All of the increased production capabilities we've got, and yet there's less leisure time and we're in a bigger hurry than ever. Even in recreational activities people are in a huge hurry.


Yet, all the rest of the world working hard lets places like the one in the article exist. They are not in fear of a military invasion, because they know the rest of the EU has their back. If the rock they live on decides to go all Mt. Vesuvius, they know everyone will rush to their help, offering aid and support. Its easy to relax when you aren't working for your own well-being.

If this hurricane comes in and goes H5 as it hits Manhattan, how quick will the people of Ikaria be rushing to Western Union to wire over money, or send search dogs, or air-drop crates of rice? How many tanks and jets can they supply if Putin goes Stalin?

Yeah, its pretty nice being a parasite.
 
2012-10-28 03:50:55 PM
I still think plastics = cancer.
 
2012-10-28 04:00:53 PM

Eddie Ate Dynamite: All of the increased production capabilities we've got, and yet there's less leisure time and we're in a bigger hurry than ever.


I don't care if you made it yourself or not; this alone turned your posts green.

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: Our ancient ancestors worked only a few hours a day, and enjoyed much more leisure and enjoyment for it.


I assume you mean our prehistoric ancestors. There were also a lot less of them, to the point that competing for resources was as easy to resolve as moving somewhere else. Once we ran out of places to move to, things got very ugly. Economics, politics, war, crime and racism, among other things, are just ways people compete for common resources. If an island had enough food and water AND no one thought to waste them or breed unsustainably, there'd be no need for a system to distribute resources. That's pretty much how these people avoid stress.

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: I mean that everyone in this country is working too hard to make a living to have a life.


I dunno about you, but in my experience, being poor in America is expensive, at least if you're honest. The social safety net here is all messed up; you can never quite balance stress, income and expenses because any misfortune can finish you off; and climbing even one rung up the ladder dramatically increases your costs. Trading stress for money continues all the way through upper middle class; the people I know making six figures work the hardest. Even if you live below your means, just keeping a job typically entails trying to please an asshole. With no economic means of peace of mind from homelessness through upper class, most Americans get on the hamster wheel because they have to.

It's telling that the island is communistic. My stress level is probably well below American average as I have no kids, no credit card debt, no car debt, and no student loans. But I'd say my stress level is still significantly higher compared to anyone who lives in a Blue Zone; there aren't any stress-free jobs in this state and I still have a mortgage to pay off. Yet one big reason why I got as far as I have is because my stress level couldn't have been higher in my twenties. I still have a number of hobbies indefinitely sidelined as I yearn for carefree days that won't come back. But it sucks being homeless in New England, so. . . I owe, I owe, so off to work I go. . .
 
2012-10-28 04:10:00 PM

Mister Peejay: Fish isn't meat?


At a Greek food festival a couple years ago I asked a server if one of the dishes was vegetarian. He replied, "It only has a little meat."

So apparently meat isn't as black and white as one may think, at least according to Greeks.
 
2012-10-28 04:10:43 PM

LemSkroob:
Yet, all the rest of the world working hard lets places like the one in the article exist. They are not in fear of a military invasion, because they know the rest of the EU has their back. If the rock they live on decides to go all Mt. Vesuvius, they know everyone will rush to their help, offering aid and support. Its easy to relax when you aren't working for your own well-being.

If this hurricane comes in and goes H5 as it hits Manhattan, how quick will the people of Ikaria be rushing to Western Union to wire over money, or send search dogs, or air-drop crates of rice? How many tanks and jets can they supply if Putin goes Stalin?

Yeah, its pretty nice being a parasite.


I'd say parasite is going too far, especially if taking over this island would provide almost no benefit to the conquerors. Chances are they've made it this long without being taken over because there's no good reason to take them over.

However your point about industrialized nations being the way they are due to strategic necessity is a good one that I hadn't really considered. Along with the point that these islanders remain beneficiaries of others less leisurely lifestyles. I suppose not even an island is an island unto itself these days.

Except those dudes we found that have never met modern man. We flew a plane over and scared the crap out of them. Wonder how they're doing or if some asshat went and contacted them.

/But I don't wonder enough to bother looking it up.
 
2012-10-28 04:12:03 PM

maxheck: I'm not familiar with this whole lactofermentation thing, but just on reading this thread I'm wondering if an old school pressure-cooker couldn't provide the sealed, sanitary environment *and* allow you to can whatever you produced?

/ just guessing here. I grew up in a house that smelled of kraut and pickles, and I have a pressure cooker.


I've heard that old ceramic inserts from electric crock pots make good fermenters. Some people use a plate on top of the kraut, then put a large plastic bag filled with water on top of that. That way the fermenting gas can sneak out from underneath the bag. Supposedly, there isn't mold growth because the plastic bag acts like a one way valve.

The thing I like about using the jars is it takes 5 minutes to measure and mix the brine in the jar, toss in enough vegetables and spices, then a few minutes to set up the lid. It takes very little time to set up a quart or half gallon then walk away for a few days. But it does make smaller batches
 
2012-10-28 04:15:02 PM

LemSkroob: Yet, all the rest of the world working hard lets places like the one in the article exist. They are not in fear of a military invasion, because they know the rest of the EU has their back.


Actually, if you read TFA, you have it exactly backwards. Many of the residents were exiled there, and they started living a long time because they were forgotten to the point that they had to become self-sufficient. The land is fertile, but. . . that's about it. They are not in fear of a military invasion because there is absolutely nothing strategic about that island. If they did things the American way their economy would collapse as they'd lack the resources to make their crops competitive in the global market, and have little else to offer. It probably costs more in fuel & labor to send a boat out there than any taxes Greece could collect, which is why many Greek islands are autonomous. Send a bomber out there and I seriously doubt NATO would mobilize in retaliation. Not only would Greece itself not give a rat's ass you killed a bunch of 90-year-old farmers, you'd probably be demoted for wasting the fuel and ammo. The islanders are happy because they are politically and economically irrelevant.

The happiest communities are those that have enough to sustain themselves, but not quite so much that attracts greed. God help that island if someone discovers oil under it. Wealth was the worst thing to happen to the island of Nauru. It makes me wonder if the people who live in Appalachia would be happier if the mountains weren't made of coal.
 
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