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(MSN)   Alabama to vote on segregation. This is not a repeat from the 1960's   (news.msn.com) divider line 184
    More: Strange, Alabama Education Association, state constitution, interracial marriages, attitude change, Montgomery, United States federal courts, poll taxes, class size  
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15327 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Oct 2012 at 6:43 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



184 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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Archived thread
 
2012-10-27 04:58:16 PM  
I'k betting on a huge victory for segregation.
 
2012-10-27 05:04:43 PM  
What?

*rtfa*

Though it ended decades ago, segregation is still mandated by Alabama's constitution. But an effort to remove the outdated language isn't supported by everyone, including some African Americans.

WHAT!?? 

They say the proposed changes would wipe out some racially charged language, but would retain segregation-era language saying there is no constitutional right to a public education in Alabama.

Oh. Christ, Alabama, WTF
 
2012-10-27 05:08:55 PM  
There are several states where, if we as a nation cut them loose, we wouldn't suffer for it. Alabama is one of those states. Take whatever may be of value to the government out, and then burn it to the ground.
 
2012-10-27 05:23:33 PM  
Why would you need a substitute amendment? The revision should just strike out the offending language, including the ban on publicly funded education.
 
2012-10-27 05:27:04 PM  

Somacandra: Why would you need a substitute amendment? The revision should just strike out the offending language, including the ban on publicly funded education.



Guess it depends on how their constitution works.  The US Constitution requires a new ammendment to repeal an earlier one.  See: 18th and 21st.
 
2012-10-27 05:40:29 PM  
Why is this being left up to voter majority? In Alabama? For fark's sake, what farking country do I live in?
 
2012-10-27 06:04:27 PM  
Alabama don't need no edumacatin'. We's smart enough as it is. Ey, Cletus Jr, git the calcumalator. A fly needs swattin'.
 
2012-10-27 06:08:37 PM  

Coco LaFemme: There are several states where, if we as a nation cut them loose, we wouldn't suffer for it. Alabama is one of those states. Take whatever may be of value to the government out, and then burn it to the ground.


You'll miss the Redstone Arsenal.
 
2012-10-27 06:13:47 PM  
Alabama has the most ridiculous, long, and wordy state constitution in the US. They just don't get it. They are the most prone people in the country to get whipped up into a frenzy and codify the derp of the day in their supreme legal document. This is why they can't have nice things.
 
2012-10-27 06:18:31 PM  

doyner: Alabama has the most ridiculous, long, and wordy state constitution in the US.


I think it's actually the longest in the world.
 
2012-10-27 06:24:23 PM  

Somacandra: Why would you need a substitute amendment? The revision should just strike out the offending language, including the ban on publicly funded education.


According to the article- the original amendment took out everything-but was rejected because people were afraid that taxes would go up because of public schools.

This isn't a race issue- but weather or not they want their kids to be educated. Or rather- pay for it.
 
2012-10-27 06:26:24 PM  
They just need to strip away all pretense, hold a state constitutional convention, codify 10 commandments articles and be done with it.
 
2012-10-27 06:27:42 PM  

Darth_Lukecash: Somacandra: Why would you need a substitute amendment? The revision should just strike out the offending language, including the ban on publicly funded education.

According to the article- the original amendment took out everything-but was rejected because people were afraid that taxes would go up because of public schools.

This isn't a race issue- but weather or not they want their kids to be educated. Or rather- pay for it.


Alabama also puts everything in the state Constitution. There's stuff about taxing pig farming in there.
 
2012-10-27 06:46:43 PM  

"The second time won't be any easier than the first because Alabama's two largest black political groups are urging a "no" vote. They say the proposed changes would wipe out some racially charged language, but would retain segregation-era language saying there is no constitutional right to a public education in Alabama. And they've been joined by the state's main teachers' group in refusing to go along."


Is there anything a politician cannot properly fark up?

 
2012-10-27 06:49:18 PM  
Alabama will vote to keep the language. The spokesmen will cite "tradition" and "history"
 
2012-10-27 06:53:33 PM  

Britney Spear's Speculum: Alabama will vote to keep the language. The spokesmen will cite "tradition" and "history"


"In our rich history we have a tradition of ignorance. Men go to hell in degrees."
 
2012-10-27 06:54:10 PM  
doyner: Alabama has the most ridiculous, long, and wordy state constitution in the US.

they're just trying to look smart, what with them words and such
 
2012-10-27 06:54:53 PM  
As opposed to northern states where they don't bother to vote on it. They just do it.
 
2012-10-27 06:54:57 PM  
Way to kill the stereotype, guys.
 
2012-10-27 06:58:10 PM  

Coco LaFemme: There are several states where, if we as a nation cut them loose, we wouldn't suffer for it. Alabama is one of those states. Take whatever may be of value to the government out, and then burn it to the ground.


Sincere opinion - Compared to you, Alabama seems rational and level-headed.
 
2012-10-27 06:58:44 PM  

Britney Spear's Speculum: Alabama will vote to keep the language. The spokesmen will cite "tradition" and "history"


Democrats are dying out in Alabama (George Wallace is gone), sounds like it is time to throw the whole thing out and start over again.
 
2012-10-27 06:59:01 PM  
The United States should be segregated from Alabama.
 
2012-10-27 07:00:48 PM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: Coco LaFemme: There are several states where, if we as a nation cut them loose, we wouldn't suffer for it. Alabama is one of those states. Take whatever may be of value to the government out, and then burn it to the ground.

Sincere opinion - Compared to you, Alabama seems rational and level-headed.


Yeah... I live in a crappy southern state, but my county and especially city is fairly awesome.

/please don't cut me out...
 
2012-10-27 07:00:50 PM  

Snatch Bandergrip: The United States should be segregated from Alabama.


That's racist?
 
2012-10-27 07:03:14 PM  
Old prejudicial language is going, old inequities are being kept and expanded.

It doesn't matter what you say you believe--it matters what you do.

I hope somebody is informing the more enlightened voters of Alabama just what their Masters are up to. Because it looks to me that now it is not just slaves who will be denied an education and thus equality and freedom and justice and a decent livelihood, but anybody who can't pay for costly, private-for-profit, superior education.

They're just correcting the mistakes of the past by extended them to the po' whites and new non-white immigrants from the non-white slaves of yesteryear.

I'd be concerned where this would leave us 99%.

Nuke a few of the better neighbourhoods in Alabama on a big bar-b-que weekend when the servants are given the day off to get them from under foot. It'll even things up. That's about the best you can probably hope for. The disease is endemic in Southern Cavalier elites. The things they are cavalier about are other people's well-being and rights, the environment, humanity, truth, fact, and science.
 
2012-10-27 07:05:51 PM  
Alabama: proving that stupidity knows no race.
 
2012-10-27 07:05:53 PM  

brantgoose: Old prejudicial language is going, old inequities are being kept and expanded.

It doesn't matter what you say you believe--it matters what you do.

I hope somebody is informing the more enlightened voters of Alabama just what their Masters are up to. Because it looks to me that now it is not just slaves who will be denied an education and thus equality and freedom and justice and a decent livelihood, but anybody who can't pay for costly, private-for-profit, superior education.

They're just correcting the mistakes of the past by extended them to the po' whites and new non-white immigrants from the non-white slaves of yesteryear.

I'd be concerned where this would leave us 99%.

Nuke a few of the better neighbourhoods in Alabama on a big bar-b-que weekend when the servants are given the day off to get them from under foot. It'll even things up. That's about the best you can probably hope for. The disease is endemic in Southern Cavalier elites. The things they are cavalier about are other people's well-being and rights, the environment, humanity, truth, fact, and science.


Someone has been watching too many movies.
 
2012-10-27 07:06:04 PM  

smitty04: Britney Spear's Speculum: Alabama will vote to keep the language. The spokesmen will cite "tradition" and "history"

Democrats are dying out in Alabama (George Wallace is gone), sounds like it is time to throw the whole thing out and start over again.


Yup, and I don't drive volkswagons because Hitler started the company.
 
2012-10-27 07:07:46 PM  
Amendment 4 would excise outdated language about poll taxes and separate schools that many consider racist. But the critics say the language being proposed as a substitute undermines funding for public education by reaffirming that there is no right to a public education at taxpayers' expense in Alabama.

Retired University of Alabama law professor Martha Morgan, an expert on Alabama's constitution, says voting "no" on Nov. 6 is likely to give the state another black eye. But she said it's better to get a black eye than "to inflict a mortal wound to public education by taking away the right to public education."


This is why.

"Supporters" are removing the segregation language...but keeping in the language that says there is no right to a public education. They claim it doesn't matter because, according to one supporter, nobody pays any attention to it. Teachers and opponents fear that if the language is reaffirmed--by officially leaving it in the new Amendment--it will provide a means by which the legislature can further cut public education funding.

A similar amendment several years ago would have stricken the public-education language altogether, but was defeated because of fears over increased taxation to support public education.

So this is where we are in America today: We can't remove segregationist language from state constitutions because it leaves in clauses stating there is no right to a public education--and we can't strip out that same language because people are scared we might raise taxes to improve public education. Meanwhile, education in America continues to deteriorate and racial tensions continue to escalate.

Our priorities sure are screwed up.
 
2012-10-27 07:08:52 PM  
FTFA: The U.S. Supreme Court declared anti-miscegenation laws unconstitutional in 1967, for instance. But it wasn't until 2000 that Alabama voters removed the state constitution's ban on interracial marriage. Even then, 40 percent voted to keep the ban.

But don't you DARE call us racist. You're the racists, for calling us racist!
 
2012-10-27 07:09:27 PM  
This time, black groups are leading the opposition to change. The Alabama Democratic Conference and the Alabama New South Alliance say the change, backed largely by white Republicans with a pro-business approach, looks like a "feel good" change but is not.

Amendment 4 would excise outdated language about poll taxes and separate schools that many consider racist. But the critics say the language being proposed as a substitute undermines funding for public education by reaffirming that there is no right to a public education at taxpayers' expense in Alabama.

"It is a wolf in sheep's clothing. It seems so good but is so bad," said black Democratic Sen. Hank Sanders of Selma, a New South founder.



Yes, because "separate but equal" is so much better.
 
2012-10-27 07:10:22 PM  
Ffs.
 
2012-10-27 07:11:19 PM  
Grrr.
 
2012-10-27 07:11:23 PM  

Gyrfalcon: So this is where we are in America today: We can't remove segregationist language from state constitutions because it leaves in clauses stating there is no right to a public education--and we can't strip out that same language because people are scared we might raise taxes to improve public education. Meanwhile, education in America continues to deteriorate and racial tensions continue to escalate.

Our priorities sure are screwed up.


People in Alabama also do not trust their politicians.
 
2012-10-27 07:11:26 PM  
That's racist!
 
2012-10-27 07:11:40 PM  

smitty04: People in Alabama also do not trust their politicians.


derp
 
2012-10-27 07:13:04 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Amendment 4 would excise outdated language about poll taxes and separate schools that many consider racist. But the critics say the language being proposed as a substitute undermines funding for public education by reaffirming that there is no right to a public education at taxpayers' expense in Alabama.

Retired University of Alabama law professor Martha Morgan, an expert on Alabama's constitution, says voting "no" on Nov. 6 is likely to give the state another black eye. But she said it's better to get a black eye than "to inflict a mortal wound to public education by taking away the right to public education."

This is why.

"Supporters" are removing the segregation language...but keeping in the language that says there is no right to a public education. They claim it doesn't matter because, according to one supporter, nobody pays any attention to it. Teachers and opponents fear that if the language is reaffirmed--by officially leaving it in the new Amendment--it will provide a means by which the legislature can further cut public education funding.

A similar amendment several years ago would have stricken the public-education language altogether, but was defeated because of fears over increased taxation to support public education.

So this is where we are in America today: We can't remove segregationist language from state constitutions because it leaves in clauses stating there is no right to a public education--and we can't strip out that same language because people are scared we might raise taxes to improve public education. Meanwhile, education in America continues to deteriorate and racial tensions continue to escalate.

Our priorities sure are screwed up.


Our priorities are fine. Politicians sneak this crap in to further some insane agenda or another. I suspect they just sit there at the computer and when someone comes into the room, they go back to the other window and hit send without thinking about it so that Mrs. Anderson doesn't realize they were sexting 13 year old boys.
 
2012-10-27 07:13:37 PM  

smitty04: Gyrfalcon: So this is where we are in America today: We can't remove segregationist language from state constitutions because it leaves in clauses stating there is no right to a public education--and we can't strip out that same language because people are scared we might raise taxes to improve public education. Meanwhile, education in America continues to deteriorate and racial tensions continue to escalate.

Our priorities sure are screwed up.

People in Alabama also do not trust their politicians.


Who does?

Trust your gut.

Melanin is melanin.

Sun determines everything: look it up.
 
2012-10-27 07:14:08 PM  
As an Alabamian, I am getting a kick....oh wait, I'm not.

And before you ask, there has been a call for a new constitutional convention for the past 20 years.
 
2012-10-27 07:15:10 PM  

Hobo Jr.: As an Alabamian, I am getting a kick....oh wait, I'm not.

And before you ask, there has been a call for a new constitutional convention for the past 20 years.


So they're just phoning it in, is what you're saying...
 
2012-10-27 07:15:38 PM  

CapeFearCadaver: Why is this being left up to voter majority?


I'd guess because Alabama law says the state's Constitution can only be altered by voter majority.
 
2012-10-27 07:16:11 PM  
Cut this tumor loose from the rest of the country.
 
2012-10-27 07:16:38 PM  

Darth_Lukecash: Somacandra: Why would you need a substitute amendment? The revision should just strike out the offending language, including the ban on publicly funded education.

According to the article- the original amendment took out everything-but was rejected because people were afraid that taxes would go up because of public schools.

This isn't a race issue- but weather or not they want their kids to be educated. Or rather- pay for it.


I'm not harping on you, just pointing it out for your amusement. There's even a term for it, but the name escapades me at the moment.
 
2012-10-27 07:17:07 PM  
Republicans. Damned if you do. Damned if you don't.
 
2012-10-27 07:17:09 PM  

skinink: "The second time won't be any easier than the first because Alabama's two largest black political groups are urging a "no" vote. They say the proposed changes would wipe out some racially charged language, but would retain segregation-era language saying there is no constitutional right to a public education in Alabama. And they've been joined by the state's main teachers' group in refusing to go along."
Is there anything a politicianracist cannot properly fark up?


FTFY
 
2012-10-27 07:17:15 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Cut this tumor loose from the rest of the country.


There is no question in my mind that both Alabama and Mississippi need some kind of national intervention.

They are not learning any lessons from the past 50 years.
 
2012-10-27 07:17:40 PM  
Hopefully, Alabama will opt to join the 20th century. As for the 21st....
 
2012-10-27 07:17:50 PM  

whidbey: Hobo Jr.: As an Alabamian, I am getting a kick....oh wait, I'm not.

And before you ask, there has been a call for a new constitutional convention for the past 20 years.

So they're just phoning it in, is what you're saying...


Yeah, pretty much.

Democract, Republican, whatever, they are all corrupt and use the state as their personal piggy bank/travel agency.
 
2012-10-27 07:18:50 PM  

Hobo Jr.: whidbey: Hobo Jr.: As an Alabamian, I am getting a kick....oh wait, I'm not.

And before you ask, there has been a call for a new constitutional convention for the past 20 years.

So they're just phoning it in, is what you're saying...

Yeah, pretty much.

Democract, Republican, whatever, they are all corrupt and use the state as their personal piggy bank/travel agency.


Totally sounds like they're stuck in the early 60s.
 
2012-10-27 07:18:51 PM  

Gyrfalcon:
OurRacists' priorities sure are screwed up.


FTFY
 
2012-10-27 07:20:30 PM  
@Coco LaFemme:

So you mean to also "burn to the ground" the 26% of Alabama's population that is black? Or only burn the white people to the ground? If the latter, will you take-in all the unburnt, black folk to your county as refugees?

Please enlighten us further. I know you are superior to us Southern rubes, so please educate us further.
 
2012-10-27 07:21:16 PM  

lohphat: Gyrfalcon:
OurRacists' priorities sure are screwed up.

FTFY


Well, to be fair, I'd say they've got their priorities quite in a row.

They hate people, basically.
 
2012-10-27 07:21:17 PM  
I'm sure Mercedes, Honda and Hyundai would be happy to have an uneducated Alabama labor force. "Would you like fries with that" would be music to the ears of all those folks from states that still believe in readin', 'ritin' and 'rithmetic.'  Of course those companies may just move after getting tired of being harassed by the local geniuses with badges.
 
2012-10-27 07:21:30 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Cut this tumor loose from the rest of the country.


Like the EU considered ejecting Greece from its union for being a fiscal drain, the US should eject states taking more federal aide than they contribute for the same reason.
 
2012-10-27 07:25:37 PM  
Hate is the inverse of love, however, Retardumblicans are beyond the pale: rise above.

Quit demeaning the species.

Look up.

ALL are welcome.

It's only one place...

*)
 
2012-10-27 07:27:14 PM  

Emposter: FTFA: The U.S. Supreme Court declared anti-miscegenation laws unconstitutional in 1967, for instance. But it wasn't until 2000 that Alabama voters removed the state constitution's ban on interracial marriage. Even then, 40 percent voted to keep the ban.

But don't you DARE call us racist. You're the racists, for calling us racist!


What the hell.
 
2012-10-27 07:27:40 PM  
Primum non nocere
So you mean to also "burn to the ground" the 26% of Alabama's population that is black? Or only burn the white people to the ground?


Are you afraid of your ashes being mixed with ashes of the wrong color?
 
2012-10-27 07:31:50 PM  
This poll seems to say a lot.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/ U/US_AP_POLL_RACIAL_ATTITUDES?SI T E=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTI ME=2012-10-27-04-13-34
 
2012-10-27 07:36:13 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: CapeFearCadaver: Why is this being left up to voter majority?

I'd guess because Alabama law says the state's Constitution can only be altered by voter majority.


Fark: Where all of your rhetorical questions will be answered. I understand the technicality, sweetums; though WHY are civil rights issues, in particular, still being left up to a majority vote... anywhere in America? Have we really not moved past this point?

/in NC, where Amendment One was passed by majority vote
 
2012-10-27 07:36:32 PM  

lohphat: LouDobbsAwaaaay: Cut this tumor loose from the rest of the country.

Like the EU considered ejecting Greece from its union for being a fiscal drain, the US should eject states taking more federal aide than they contribute for the same reason.


Ejecting them, no.

They need a good biatchslap to make them fly right.
 
2012-10-27 07:36:52 PM  

brantgoose: neighbourhoods


You ain't from 'round here, are you?
 
2012-10-27 07:37:20 PM  

smitty04: People in Alabama also do not trust their politicians.

Dale


nor should they. Google Shadrack McGill, Roy Moore, Twinkle Andress Cavanaugh, Don Seigelman, Tim James, Larry Langford, Dale Peterson, Parker Griffith

do I really need to go on? I can, I just don't want to.

Point is, the Alabama constitution is a convoluted mess. The ideal thing to do would be throw it out and write a new one, but the fact of the matter is, the new constitution that the lunatics in Montgomery come up with will undoubtedly be 900x worse than whatever is on the books now
 
2012-10-27 07:38:22 PM  

CapeFearCadaver: Why is this being left up to voter majority? In Alabama? For fark's sake, what farking country do I live in?


Umm, a country where governments (state or federal) don't get to change constitutions at their own whim...and that's a good thing.
 
2012-10-27 07:40:59 PM  

Coco LaFemme: There are several states where, if we as a nation cut them loose, we wouldn't suffer for it. Alabama is one of those states. Take whatever may be of value to the government out, and then burn it to the ground.


Hmmm, this seems a good time for a let's-throw-a-state-out thread: I vote Arizona, a desert wasteland where old bigots go to die. You're out Arizona.
 
2012-10-27 07:42:27 PM  

cmb53208: I vote Arizona, a desert wasteland where old bigots go to die. You're out Arizona.


Actually, Arizona would make for one hell of a solar panel array.
 
2012-10-27 07:43:44 PM  

xanadian: What?

*rtfa*

Though it ended decades ago, segregation is still mandated by Alabama's constitution. But an effort to remove the outdated language isn't supported by everyone, including some African Americans.

WHAT!?? 

They say the proposed changes would wipe out some racially charged language, but would retain segregation-era language saying there is no constitutional right to a public education in Alabama.

Oh. Christ, Alabama, WTF


It's not just Alabama; these stupid bait-n-switch amendments and propositions are pretty much standard fair these days. People need to read the entire proposition before voting on it ("Free kittens for everyone...and the addition of a poll tax" Vote YES on Prop 100...for free kittens!)
 
2012-10-27 07:47:10 PM  

smitty04: People in Alabama also do not trust their politicians.


Though, in Birmingham, they love the governor.
 
2012-10-27 07:47:36 PM  

Coco LaFemme: There are several states where, if we as a nation cut them loose, we wouldn't suffer for it. Alabama is one of those states. Take whatever may be of value to the government out, and then burn it to the ground.


We could store our coal sludge, other toxic waste and nuclear waste there. We could downgrade it to a US colony that has no right to representation. Good idea!!
 
2012-10-27 07:48:40 PM  

whidbey: cmb53208: I vote Arizona, a desert wasteland where old bigots go to die. You're out Arizona.

Actually, Arizona would make for one hell of a solar panel array.


A glass-parking lot, one might say?
 
2012-10-27 07:48:57 PM  

Vectron: Republicans. Damned if you do. Damned if you don't.


There is always the right way and then there is the Republican way. They can take anything that sounds good and pervert it to maximum Derp.
 
2012-10-27 07:49:25 PM  
Oy vey.
 
2012-10-27 07:51:50 PM  
whidbey
cmb53208: I vote Arizona, a desert wasteland where old bigots go to die. You're out Arizona.

Actually, Arizona would make for one hell of a solar panel array.


If you keep Arizona, you might be able to get rid off Florida if you add a seniors' final storage area to the bigoted elephant graveyard.
 
2012-10-27 07:52:28 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Cut this tumor loose from the rest of the country.


On second thought, maybe not: we did after all give the nation Scott Walker, Paul Ryan, and Ron Johnson. Those three people don't exactly make Wisconsin look very bright.

As far as segregation goes, two words: Milwaukee suburbs
 
2012-10-27 07:52:35 PM  

whidbey: LouDobbsAwaaaay: Cut this tumor loose from the rest of the country.

There is no question in my mind that both Alabama and Mississippi need some kind of national intervention.

They are not learning any lessons from the past 50 years.


i1.kym-cdn.com
 
2012-10-27 07:52:51 PM  

King Something: Oy vey.


Quit religionizing.

We are species first.

Word.

*)

P.S. Try to be human first, then come preach...
 
2012-10-27 07:53:39 PM  
Alabama is a disgusting and terrible state for anyone who doesn't appreciate the history of the discrimination that occurred there. And I'm one of them.

Fark that miserable state and all the terrible people who inhabit it that still are racist. And if you don't think there aren't millions of them, drive through the place.
 
2012-10-27 07:53:45 PM  

The Voice of Doom: whidbey
cmb53208: I vote Arizona, a desert wasteland where old bigots go to die. You're out Arizona.

Actually, Arizona would make for one hell of a solar panel array.

If you keep Arizona, you might be able to get rid off Florida if you add a seniors' final storage area to the bigoted elephant graveyard.


Well, see, I don't want to "get rid" of anything. Florida would be part of the Neo-Reconstruction, too.
 
2012-10-27 07:55:47 PM  

cmb53208: Coco LaFemme: There are several states where, if we as a nation cut them loose, we wouldn't suffer for it. Alabama is one of those states. Take whatever may be of value to the government out, and then burn it to the ground.

Hmmm, this seems a good time for a let's-throw-a-state-out thread: I vote Arizona, a desert wasteland where old bigots go to die. You're out Arizona.


Never actually been to Arizona, have you?

Link
Link
Link

All Arizona
 
2012-10-27 07:57:21 PM  

cmb53208: LouDobbsAwaaaay: Cut this tumor loose from the rest of the country.

On second thought, maybe not: we did after all give the nation Scott Walker, Paul Ryan, and Ron Johnson. Those three people don't exactly make Wisconsin look very bright.

As far as segregation goes, two words: Milwaukee suburbs


Nothing says segregation like English Station area of Chicago.
www.chicagonow.com
 
2012-10-27 08:05:49 PM  

smitty04: whidbey: LouDobbsAwaaaay: Cut this tumor loose from the rest of the country.

There is no question in my mind that both Alabama and Mississippi need some kind of national intervention.

They are not learning any lessons from the past 50 years.

[i1.kym-cdn.com image 100x100]



Talking to yourself again? I'm sorry I insulted your buddies.
 
2012-10-27 08:08:50 PM  

GAT_00: doyner: Alabama has the most ridiculous, long, and wordy state constitution in the US.

I think it's actually the longest in the world.


It is.

At 340,136 words, the document is 12 times longer than the average state constitution, 40 times longer than the U.S. Constitution, and is the longest still-operative constitution anywhere in the world. (The English translation of the Constitution of India, the longest national constitution, is about 117,369 words long, a third of the length.)

About 90 percent of the document's length, as of 2012, comes from its 856 amendments. About 70 percent of the amendments cover only a single county or city, and some deal with salaries of specific officials (e.g. Amendment 480 and the Greene County probate judge). This gives Alabama a large number of constitutional officers.


Most of that document could burn and I wouldn't weep. There are all sorts of idiotic bits that need to be undone, but it takes too many votes to get anything to happen. As much derp as there is on the national scene, it's worse locally. I wouldn't trust a single member of our government with a pair of safety scissors.


Also. If you think Alabama is "dumb", please look up Huntsville and Redstone Arsenal. Basically, it's probably the highest educated city in the US. Silicon Valley might give us a run for the money, but the rest of the US is easily "dumber" than HSV.
 
2012-10-27 08:09:04 PM  
Is ther a "right" to public education.? Yes, it is a good thing but a right like free speech or gun ownership? I don't think so.

It is a government provided service like a fire deparment or a public park but not a right.
 
2012-10-27 08:09:14 PM  

Hickory-smoked: smitty04: People in Alabama also do not trust their politicians.

Though, in Birmingham, they love the governor.


I just knew that if I kept reading this thread long enough something would make me laugh. Bravo!
 
2012-10-27 08:11:39 PM  
rev. dave
Coco LaFemme:
There are several states where, if we as a nation cut them loose, we wouldn't suffer for it. Alabama is one of those states. Take whatever may be of value to the government out, and then burn it to the ground.

We could store our coal sludge, other toxic waste and nuclear waste there. We could downgrade it to a US colony that has no right to representation. Good idea!!


I think Nevada would make a better toxic waste dump:
No risk of tropical storms flushing out the waste , you already had nuclear bomb explosions, Reno has a history as a place for dumping, and what you dump in Vegas stays in Vegas.
 
2012-10-27 08:16:03 PM  

hasty ambush: Is ther a "right" to public education.? Yes, it is a good thing but a right like free speech or gun ownership? I don't think so.

It is a government provided service like a fire deparment or a public park but not a right.


One could argue that you can't have an effective democracy without an well-educated public...
 
2012-10-27 08:18:08 PM  

libranoelrose: Hickory-smoked: smitty04: People in Alabama also do not trust their politicians.

Though, in Birmingham, they love the governor.

I just knew that if I kept reading this thread long enough something would make me laugh. Bravo!


People always misinterpret that line.

The Guvnah was the first integrated strip joint in Birmingham. It burned down under mysterious circumstances in 1971.
 
2012-10-27 08:20:04 PM  

Forbidden Doughnut: hasty ambush: Is ther a "right" to public education.? Yes, it is a good thing but a right like free speech or gun ownership? I don't think so.

It is a government provided service like a fire deparment or a public park but not a right.

One could argue that you can't have an effective democracy without an well-educated public...


I argue this point...minus the "an". It's "a". *)
 
2012-10-27 08:20:45 PM  

Hobo Jr.: The Guvnah was the first integrated strip joint in Birmingham. It burned down under mysterious circumstances in 1971.


I'm guessing that not so mysteriously alcohol was involved.
 
2012-10-27 08:22:48 PM  
FTFA: But it wasn't until 2000 that Alabama voters removed the state constitution's ban on interracial marriage. Even then, 40 percent voted to keep the ban.

And people want to leave gay civil rights up to the voters in each state? Yeah, that's why we shouldn't be voting on equal/civil rights.
 
2012-10-27 08:24:28 PM  

WorldCitizen: Yeah, that's why we shouldn't be voting on equal/civil rights


I guess i don't understand, given the 14th Amendment, why doing that would even be legal in this country.
 
2012-10-27 08:26:13 PM  
Alabama should be ashamed.
It's 2012 for fark sakes!
 
2012-10-27 08:28:21 PM  

Forbidden Doughnut: hasty ambush: Is ther a "right" to public education.? Yes, it is a good thing but a right like free speech or gun ownership? I don't think so.

It is a government provided service like a fire deparment or a public park but not a right.

One could argue that you can't have an effective democracy without an well-educated public...


I think one can very successfully argue that. You can't have an effective democracy without an effectively educated population. Of course, I would say a lot of our problems in the US right now stem from the lack of an effectively educated population.
 
2012-10-27 08:29:41 PM  

SolidShadow: Alabama should be ashamed.
It's 2012 for fark sakes!


We're not. Well, I am and 20% of real progressives are but we tend to keep our heads down and mouths shut because the stupid burns.
 
2012-10-27 08:30:14 PM  
VObama.

Oh, yes I did.

*)
 
2012-10-27 08:30:20 PM  
Thank God, for Alabama. Otherwise, us Georgians would have no one to make fun of. I suppose we could make fun of North Florida, but that's really no different from Macon. It would feel hollow.
 
2012-10-27 08:30:36 PM  

Hobo Jr.: libranoelrose: Hickory-smoked: smitty04: People in Alabama also do not trust their politicians.

Though, in Birmingham, they love the governor.

I just knew that if I kept reading this thread long enough something would make me laugh. Bravo!

People always misinterpret that line.

The Guvnah was the first integrated strip joint in Birmingham. It burned down under mysterious circumstances in 1971.


It's not as funny if you take it so literally since we were discussing politicians.

Though this would be a good time to turn this into a mixed race stripper thread...
 
2012-10-27 08:32:04 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Thank God, for Alabama. Otherwise, us Georgians would have no one to make fun of. I suppose we could make fun of North Florida, but that's really no different from Macon. It would feel hollow.


Don't worry. Indiana is fighting really hard to be the Alabama of the North. We want to make sure that even the South has someone to point at and make fun of.
 
2012-10-27 08:32:08 PM  

libranoelrose: Hobo Jr.: libranoelrose: Hickory-smoked: smitty04: People in Alabama also do not trust their politicians.

Though, in Birmingham, they love the governor.

I just knew that if I kept reading this thread long enough something would make me laugh. Bravo!

People always misinterpret that line.

The Guvnah was the first integrated strip joint in Birmingham. It burned down under mysterious circumstances in 1971.

It's not as funny if you take it so literally since we were discussing politicians.

Though this would be a good time to turn this into a mixed race stripper thread...


I just made all that up.
 
2012-10-27 08:35:53 PM  

whidbey: WorldCitizen: Yeah, that's why we shouldn't be voting on equal/civil rights

I guess i don't understand, given the 14th Amendment, why doing that would even be legal in this country.


NC's Amendment One: "An Act to Amend the Constitution to Provide That Marriage Between One Man and One Woman is the Only Domestic Legal Union That Shall Be Valid or Recognized in This State."

Not only was is solely for the purpose of making gay marriage HARDER, considering it was already illegal here; but the way they worded it: "the Only Domestic Legal Union That Shall Be Valid or Recognized in This State."... it leaves ALL unmarried couples, gay or straight, completely in jeopardy. Victims of DV, Health Insurance, Hospital Visitation rights, Life insurance... the list goes on. Voted by majority. (not by my county, thankfully, but still)
 
2012-10-27 08:37:23 PM  

Indubitably: VObama.

Oh, yes I did.

*)


"O, earth, plz let us live another day in this massiveness of space, with its petulant ways..."

"Money isn't real."

"People are."
 
2012-10-27 08:37:32 PM  

CapeFearCadaver: whidbey: WorldCitizen: Yeah, that's why we shouldn't be voting on equal/civil rights

I guess i don't understand, given the 14th Amendment, why doing that would even be legal in this country.

NC's Amendment One: "An Act to Amend the Constitution to Provide That Marriage Between One Man and One Woman is the Only Domestic Legal Union That Shall Be Valid or Recognized in This State."

Not only was is solely for the purpose of making gay marriage HARDER, considering it was already illegal here; but the way they worded it: "the Only Domestic Legal Union That Shall Be Valid or Recognized in This State."... it leaves ALL unmarried couples, gay or straight, completely in jeopardy. Victims of DV, Health Insurance, Hospital Visitation rights, Life insurance... the list goes on. Voted by majority. (not by my county, thankfully, but still)


I understand what they did.

What I don't get is how it could possibly be Constitutional .
 
2012-10-27 08:38:41 PM  

WorldCitizen: Rapmaster2000: Thank God, for Alabama. Otherwise, us Georgians would have no one to make fun of. I suppose we could make fun of North Florida, but that's really no different from Macon. It would feel hollow.

Don't worry. Indiana is fighting really hard to be the Alabama of the North. We want to make sure that even the South has someone to point at and make fun of.


As a Hoosier living in the South I... uh. I got nothing.
 
2012-10-27 08:39:37 PM  
Idiots. First World countries don't make every effort possible not to have a well funded public education system. In 20 years the U.S is going to be in the same shape as Mexico thanks to idiots like these people.
 
2012-10-27 08:41:25 PM  

CapeFearCadaver: ArcadianRefugee: CapeFearCadaver: Why is this being left up to voter majority?

I'd guess because Alabama law says the state's Constitution can only be altered by voter majority.

Fark: Where all of your rhetorical questions will be answered. I understand the technicality, sweetums; though WHY are civil rights issues, in particular, still being left up to a majority vote... anywhere in America? Have we really not moved past this point?

/in NC, where Amendment One was passed by majority vote


Well bless your heart.

It isn't really a civil rights issue, is it deary? It's a move to remove text that has no function; an unconstitutional law on the books remains on the books until they remove it, which doesn't magickally happen just because someone says it is unenforceable. There are an annoying set of rules set up to add and retract laws and these rules don't get to be ignored just because you really really don't like the law.

No one is voting to re-enslave blacks; they are voting to remove some words no longer have any use.
 
2012-10-27 08:41:36 PM  

whidbey: I understand what they did.

What I don't get is how it could possibly be Constitutional .


Hell, neither do I. No one I know, the DV ADA included, understands one farking iota of it.
 
2012-10-27 08:43:37 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: CapeFearCadaver: ArcadianRefugee: CapeFearCadaver: Why is this being left up to voter majority?

I'd guess because Alabama law says the state's Constitution can only be altered by voter majority.

Fark: Where all of your rhetorical questions will be answered. I understand the technicality, sweetums; though WHY are civil rights issues, in particular, still being left up to a majority vote... anywhere in America? Have we really not moved past this point?

/in NC, where Amendment One was passed by majority vote

Well bless your heart.

It isn't really a civil rights issue, is it deary? It's a move to remove text that has no function; an unconstitutional law on the books remains on the books until they remove it, which doesn't magickally happen just because someone says it is unenforceable. There are an annoying set of rules set up to add and retract laws and these rules don't get to be ignored just because you really really don't like the law.

No one is voting to re-enslave blacks; they are voting to remove some words no longer have any use.


You're an ass. Put down the whiskey.

I like the K in Magic... Are you a Wizard, too?
 
2012-10-27 08:45:36 PM  

hasty ambush: Is ther a "right" to public education.? Yes, it is a good thing but a right like free speech or gun ownership? I don't think so.

It is a government provided service like a fire deparment or a public park but not a right.


There are parents that use this 'right' to free education as daycare and a substitute for parenting. This is where the problems start.
 
2012-10-27 08:45:44 PM  
CapeFearCadaver:

As for the general "why are we still letting...", the sad fact is the things we call inalienable civil rights are really just the things we (as a nation) say are inalienable civil rights. Sucks, but....
 
2012-10-27 08:46:43 PM  

CapeFearCadaver: You're an ass. Put down the whiskey.

I like the K in Magic... Are you a Wizard, too?


Huh. Kind of an angry little person, aren't you?
 
2012-10-27 08:54:57 PM  
Since this thread is already politicized, I shall say:

1) Denying love in marriage is stupid-wrong. WTF is wrong with your thinking? Reschool, man.

2) To vote is THE fundamental right of an American, and for anyone to call that into question is goofy politics and obfuscation at its base. There is, was, and will never be any voter fraud on a Constitutional-level necessary in America. Look it up. And vote it down.

3) Word.
 
2012-10-27 08:57:55 PM  

Indubitably: Since this thread is already politicized, I shall say:

1) Denying love in marriage is stupid-wrong. WTF is wrong with your thinking? Reschool, man.

2) To vote is THE fundamental right of an American, and for anyone to call that into question is goofy politics and obfuscation at its base. There is, was, and will never be any voter fraud on a Constitutional-level necessary in America. Look it up. And vote it down.

3) Word.


P.S. To vote is a right and to marry should be...*eye-scratch*
 
2012-10-27 09:02:17 PM  

kitsuneymg: GAT_00: doyner: Alabama has the most ridiculous, long, and wordy state constitution in the US.

I think it's actually the longest in the world.

It is.

At 340,136 words, the document is 12 times longer than the average state constitution, 40 times longer than the U.S. Constitution, and is the longest still-operative constitution anywhere in the world. (The English translation of the Constitution of India, the longest national constitution, is about 117,369 words long, a third of the length.)

About 90 percent of the document's length, as of 2012, comes from its 856 amendments. About 70 percent of the amendments cover only a single county or city, and some deal with salaries of specific officials (e.g. Amendment 480 and the Greene County probate judge). This gives Alabama a large number of constitutional officers.

Most of that document could burn and I wouldn't weep. There are all sorts of idiotic bits that need to be undone, but it takes too many votes to get anything to happen. As much derp as there is on the national scene, it's worse locally. I wouldn't trust a single member of our government with a pair of safety scissors.


Also. If you think Alabama is "dumb", please look up Huntsville and Redstone Arsenal. Basically, it's probably the highest educated city in the US. Silicon Valley might give us a run for the money, but the rest of the US is easily "dumber" than HSV.


Ahh, Alabama, where enshrining idiocy in the state Constitution is to be preferred to enshrining it in the state statutes, as every other state does.
 
2012-10-27 09:03:27 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: CapeFearCadaver: You're an ass. Put down the whiskey.

I like the K in Magic... Are you a Wizard, too?

Huh. Kind of an angry little person, aren't you?


And drunk, don't forget drunk.
 
2012-10-27 09:04:45 PM  

CapeFearCadaver: And drunk, don't forget drunk.


This is Fark, it's assumed.
 
2012-10-27 09:07:27 PM  
States' rights, amirite?

So, the Union is unnecessary?

Plz. (sarcasm in play)

STFU, and VObama.

Do it now; this is an order, Ensign.

Captain out.
 
2012-10-27 09:18:44 PM  

RedPhoenix122: CapeFearCadaver: And drunk, don't forget drunk.

This is Fark, it's assumed.


Obv. Not whiskey though.

CSB: Was cleaning out my car (it really was farking cluttered) two days ago and found an unopened bottle of Skyy.

Yay for the vodak faeries!
 
2012-10-27 09:19:51 PM  

GAT_00: Alabama also puts everything in the state Constitution. There's stuff about taxing pig farming in there


Years ago when I worked for a lawyer in Alabama when I got bored I'd read through some of the law books. A huge amount of the Alabama Constitution deals with bingo. If I remember correctly, about ten percent of the amendments to the state constitution were bingo related.

There is no home rule in Alabama so each time a city or county wants to raise taxes or sell bonds, it has to be approved by the entire state and amended to the constitution. It's a really weird system but everyone is afraid of the crazy battles that would take place if they attempted to replace it with something that empowers the legislature to create laws instead of everything needing to be a constitutional amendment. 

And for those who say this is really about school taxes and not race, a few years ago over 40% of the voters voted to not remove the ban on interracial marriage even though the courts had long ago struck it down. It couldn't be enforced but a large segment of the population still liked having the unenforceable law in place.
 
2012-10-27 09:20:33 PM  
This should have been passed without having the people vote for it. But they grow them bigger and dumber down there.
 
2012-10-27 09:22:21 PM  
Please tell me I'm not the only one disturbed (or unsurprised) by the fact this was actually rejected in 2004...
 
2012-10-27 09:22:53 PM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: Sincere opinion - Compared to you, Alabama seems rational and level-headed.


Are you an...an elcor?

/They did Hamlet exceptionally well. Those fourteen hours passed like a lightning strike.
 
2012-10-27 09:26:34 PM  
There is no right to public education. You cannot have a right to something that must exist through the effort of others. A right, by definition, is something you must be allowed to have. But that's impossible if it requires another person to fulfill it. You have the right to free speech, but not the right to be listened to, because that involves someone else. You have the right to self-defense, but not to be defended by others, because that forces effort on another to serve you. You have the right to practice your religion, but not to make others practice it too, because again, that would involve the necessary actions of someone else to be fulfilled. If your "right" requires action on the part of another person to be fulfilled, it cannot by definition be a right. Public education (like public healthcare) absolutely requires someone else to act in order for it to be fulfilled. There has to be another person actively teaching the public for there to be public education. That's why it can't be a right. What if that teacher doesn't want to teach?

All rights exist naturally within you and are fulfilled by you alone. If they extend past you and require someone else to fulfill them for you, they cannot be a right.
 
2012-10-27 09:34:19 PM  
easy solution here which wasn't even considered pulls the old racist language out and reinsert an amendment stating Alabama children have the right to an education. Slam dunk pass for both. the first does away with what has been dead and gone and the second removes the stumbling block #1
 
2012-10-27 09:38:11 PM  

taurusowner: There is no right to public education. You cannot have a right to something that must exist through the effort of others. A right, by definition, is something you must be allowed to have. But that's impossible if it requires another person to fulfill it. You have the right to free speech, but not the right to be listened to, because that involves someone else. You have the right to self-defense, but not to be defended by others, because that forces effort on another to serve you. You have the right to practice your religion, but not to make others practice it too, because again, that would involve the necessary actions of someone else to be fulfilled. If your "right" requires action on the part of another person to be fulfilled, it cannot by definition be a right. Public education (like public healthcare) absolutely requires someone else to act in order for it to be fulfilled. There has to be another person actively teaching the public for there to be public education. That's why it can't be a right. What if that teacher doesn't want to teach?

All rights exist naturally within you and are fulfilled by you alone. If they extend past you and require someone else to fulfill them for you, they cannot be a right.


Ah, civilization. Where we wouldn't be if this perspective was widespread.

/voting Obama, which may possibly be against my personal interests as a white, middle-class, employed, insured, tax-paying, straight, married male.
//because that's what civilized people sometimes have to do
 
2012-10-27 09:39:11 PM  

taurusowner: You cannot have a right to something that must exist through the effort of others.


Sounds like you don't like forcing people to pay taxes for schools?

And yet, I imagine you would be farking angry if we stopped paying taxes for your salary.
 
2012-10-27 09:40:05 PM  
this thread is one of the most disturbing i've seen on Fark. some ugly opinions, ugly truths, some ideas, responses and what not that are just loaded for bear - it has it all. this is just talking about the topic while glimpsing at it from the outside. i can't imagine how difficult it must be to manage affairs of the state hands-on. but this little thread seems like quite an indicator.
 
2012-10-27 09:43:43 PM  

dahmers love zombie: taurusowner: There is no right to public education. You cannot have a right to something that must exist through the effort of others. A right, by definition, is something you must be allowed to have. But that's impossible if it requires another person to fulfill it. You have the right to free speech, but not the right to be listened to, because that involves someone else. You have the right to self-defense, but not to be defended by others, because that forces effort on another to serve you. You have the right to practice your religion, but not to make others practice it too, because again, that would involve the necessary actions of someone else to be fulfilled. If your "right" requires action on the part of another person to be fulfilled, it cannot by definition be a right. Public education (like public healthcare) absolutely requires someone else to act in order for it to be fulfilled. There has to be another person actively teaching the public for there to be public education. That's why it can't be a right. What if that teacher doesn't want to teach?

All rights exist naturally within you and are fulfilled by you alone. If they extend past you and require someone else to fulfill them for you, they cannot be a right.

Ah, civilization. Where we wouldn't be if this perspective was widespread.

/voting Obama, which may possibly be against my personal interests as a white, middle-class, employed, insured, tax-paying, straight, married male.
//because that's what civilized people sometimes have to do


Ok. You live in a village. "Bob" is the only teacher. Your kids have the "right" to a public education. Bob decides he doesn't want to teach anymore. Now their rights are infringed simply through the pursuit of his right to live how he wants. Resolve the situation so that your kids can fulfill their right to a public education supplied by others, without infringing on the rights of others to live how they want. Basically, figure out how to supply a public education without forcing others to actually teach.

It's impossible. You can't have the right to something that must be supplied by others for the simple fact that others have the right to choose not to supply it.
 
2012-10-27 09:47:50 PM  

kitsuneymg: Also. If you think Alabama is "dumb", please look up Huntsville and Redstone Arsenal. Basically, it's probably the highest educated city in the US. Silicon Valley might give us a run for the money, but the rest of the US is easily "dumber" than HSV.


I happen to have stunning eyes... it doesn't make the rest of me a supermodel.
a grain of sugar doesn't turn a dog turd into chocolate soufflé
 
2012-10-27 09:49:33 PM  

fnordfocus: And yet, I imagine you would be farking angry if we stopped paying taxes for your salary.


My job is a privilege extended to me by the choice of the taxpayers of my city. I have no right to their money. The choose to pay me through taxes. They can choose not to pay me and my department will shrink and I could lose my job. Just as they cannot force me to work, I cannot force them to pay me. Their money is theirs, and my effort is mine. We exchange it thought voluntary decisions. If either party feels it is not getting a fair deal, the transaction can be terminated. I can quit or they can fire me. That's the essence of rights.

"The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins." - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Your rights stop where they cross with another person's rights. Like the right not to be a teacher.
 
2012-10-27 09:50:26 PM  

intelligent comment below: taurusowner: Ok. You live in a village. "Bob" is the only teacher. Your kids have the "right" to a public education. Bob decides he doesn't want to teach anymore. Now their rights are infringed simply through the pursuit of his right to live how he wants. Resolve the situation so that your kids can fulfill their right to a public education supplied by others, without infringing on the rights of others to live how they want. Basically, figure out how to supply a public education without forcing others to actually teach.

It's impossible. You can't have the right to something that must be supplied by others for the simple fact that others have the right to choose not to supply it.


I have a RIGHT to property, but nobody will sell me property? derp thoughts with another uneducated libertarian idiot


Ummm what? What are you talking about?
 
2012-10-27 09:51:31 PM  

doyner: Britney Spear's Speculum: Alabama will vote to keep the language. The spokesmen will cite "tradition" and "history"

"In our rich history we have a tradition of ignorance. Men go to hell in degrees."


seriously. I get it, you have a culture and heritage. So do the rest of us, but we take the ugly parts out and keep the good parts. Like you could keep your delicious southern food and country music and shiat and get rid of all the rebel 'we love slavery' shiat. Trust me, you can do it.

Like, Germany still has Oktoberfest and has banned Nazi Germany stuff. I'm not saying you have to ban symbols that people associate with hate, but maybe you shouldn't cover everything in them.
 
2012-10-27 09:57:34 PM  

intelligent comment below: taurusowner: Ok. You live in a village. "Bob" is the only teacher. Your kids have the "right" to a public education. Bob decides he doesn't want to teach anymore. Now their rights are infringed simply through the pursuit of his right to live how he wants. Resolve the situation so that your kids can fulfill their right to a public education supplied by others, without infringing on the rights of others to live how they want. Basically, figure out how to supply a public education without forcing others to actually teach.

It's impossible. You can't have the right to something that must be supplied by others for the simple fact that others have the right to choose not to supply it.


I have a RIGHT to property, but nobody will sell me property? derp thoughts with another uneducated libertarian idiot


So I don't have a right to vote because what if no one wants to work at polling stations or even print ballots for me?
 
2012-10-27 09:59:36 PM  
Good for Alabama! At least they are willing to recognize that, because of the statistically well- attested fact that blacks victimize whites at a much greater rate than vice- versa, there are at least some protective benefits to be enjoyed by whites from segregation. Naturally, the presentation of this objectively neutral fact will be greeted by the usual suspects as "hate", "trolling", etc., though curiously none of those flinging around the sh*t will be able to dispute its basic accuracy.
 
2012-10-27 10:02:50 PM  

kitsuneymg: Also. If you think Alabama is "dumb", please look up Huntsville and Redstone Arsenal. Basically, it's probably the highest educated city in the US. Silicon Valley might give us a run for the money, but the rest of the US is easily "dumber" than HSV.


I did as you suggested. The two regions you're citing as proof of Alabaman intellectual superiority are locations of NASA / Army rocket propulsion research facilities and a large facility housing various Army departments along with a NASA center, respectively. Something tells me the intelligence of these areas has little to do with Alabama proper, excepting that it had, at some point, a Senator or Representative with enough swagger in DC to pull the facilities to their cheap land, instead of someone else's.
 
2012-10-27 10:06:39 PM  

taurusowner: My job is a privilege extended to me by the choice of the taxpayers of my city. I have no right to their money. The choose to pay me through taxes. They can choose not to pay me and my department will shrink and I could lose my job. Just as they cannot force me to work, I cannot force them to pay me. Their money is theirs, and my effort is mine. We exchange it thought voluntary decisions. If either party feels it is not getting a fair deal, the transaction can be terminated. I can quit or they can fire me. That's the essence of rights.


Good for you, but I will point out that it is very common for members of your profession to argue in court that you can't be laid off.

Also, historically, you've been called upon to force striking workers back the job.
 
2012-10-27 10:11:24 PM  
intelligent comment below

I have a RIGHT to property, but nobody will sell me property? derp thoughts with another uneducated libertarian idiot


There will always be property available to be sold if the price that the buyer is willing to offer is high enough. Can't find land to buy? Raise the price. Can't raise the price high enough? That is your problem, not that of the landowners. Property rights have never been interpreted to mean that somebody else must be forced to sell you his land.

There is no parallel here with the alleged "right" to education, because in an extreme situation where nobody wants to be an educator people would have to be conscripted as teachers in order to see that this alleged "right" is fulfilled.
 
2012-10-27 10:14:59 PM  

ongbok: Idiots. First World countries don't make every effort possible not to have a well funded public education system. In 20 years the U.S is going to be in the same shape as Mexico thanks to idiots like these people.


Dass raciss, ese.
 
2012-10-27 10:15:13 PM  

taurusowner: dahmers love zombie: taurusowner: There is no right to public education. You cannot have a right to something that must exist through the effort of others. A right, by definition, is something you must be allowed to have. But that's impossible if it requires another person to fulfill it. You have the right to free speech, but not the right to be listened to, because that involves someone else. You have the right to self-defense, but not to be defended by others, because that forces effort on another to serve you. You have the right to practice your religion, but not to make others practice it too, because again, that would involve the necessary actions of someone else to be fulfilled. If your "right" requires action on the part of another person to be fulfilled, it cannot by definition be a right. Public education (like public healthcare) absolutely requires someone else to act in order for it to be fulfilled. There has to be another person actively teaching the public for there to be public education. That's why it can't be a right. What if that teacher doesn't want to teach?

All rights exist naturally within you and are fulfilled by you alone. If they extend past you and require someone else to fulfill them for you, they cannot be a right.

Ah, civilization. Where we wouldn't be if this perspective was widespread.

/voting Obama, which may possibly be against my personal interests as a white, middle-class, employed, insured, tax-paying, straight, married male.
//because that's what civilized people sometimes have to do

Ok. You live in a village. "Bob" is the only teacher. Your kids have the "right" to a public education. Bob decides he doesn't want to teach anymore. Now their rights are infringed simply through the pursuit of his right to live how he wants. Resolve the situation so that your kids can fulfill their right to a public education supplied by others, without infringing on the rights of others to live how they want. Basically, figure out how to supp ...


I'll assuming the rights to counsel and trial by jury need to be officially struck from the Bill of Rights as they require a lawyer and a group of your countrymen to be compelled to action.

Yes, the students' rights would be impinged. The government would, gasp, have to hire someone else. Or craft a law compelling members of the community to serve, similar to jury duty. We need educated youth. If we can't find someone to do it for pay, we'll have to make someone do it to avoid fines and whatnot. 

The state of Alabama wouldn't see any good from having it not labelled such.
 
2012-10-27 10:17:47 PM  
FTFA: The second time won't be any easier than the first because Alabama's two largest black political groups are urging a "no" vote. They say the proposed changes would wipe out some racially charged language, but would retain segregation-era language saying there is no constitutional right to a public education in Alabama. And they've been joined by the state's main teachers' group in refusing to go along.

The devil's in the details.
 
2012-10-27 10:27:34 PM  
You know, it's funny that it's taken as a given that the segregated 1950s were a terrible time for race relations by people who never trouble to ask themselves the simple question: how are black people in the South better off now than they were back then? Today blacks have much greater rates of family breakdown leading directly to much greater rates of crime, which in turn leads to the flight of productive citizens (of any race) from the communities they might otherwise have invested their lives and livelihoods in. The result is blighted ghettos, gangs, multi- generational families on welfare, and far less racial interaction than in 1960 owing to the simple fact that most white people are rightly fearful to even visit, let alone settle down in, areas that are mostly black.

But on the plus side, black people no longer have to sit at the back of the bus! So there's that.
 
2012-10-27 10:28:08 PM  

taurusowner: You can't have the right to something that must be supplied by others for the simple fact that others have the right to choose not to supply it.


Your grasp of rights is rather poor, though I can't decide if this paucity of understanding falls on the side of comedic or pathetic.
 
2012-10-27 10:29:59 PM  

EvilRacistNaziFascist: The result is blighted ghettos,


Ghettos are nothing new. And have little to do with race issues.

white people are rightly fearful to even visit, l

then again you're a coward so not like you really care to understand anything, you just try to justify your fear and ignorance.
 
2012-10-27 10:31:16 PM  

xanadian: What?

*rtfa*

Though it ended decades ago, segregation is still mandated by Alabama's constitution. But an effort to remove the outdated language isn't supported by everyone, including some African Americans.

WHAT!?? 

They say the proposed changes would wipe out some racially charged language, but would retain segregation-era language saying there is no constitutional right to a public education in Alabama.

Oh. Christ, Alabama, WTF


Public education is, by definition, socialism.

Plus, education also tends to turn republicans into democrats. So thats two reasons they dont want education in alabama.
 
2012-10-27 10:39:11 PM  

EvilRacistNaziFascist: You know, it's funny that it's taken as a given that the segregated 1950s were a terrible time for race relations by people who never trouble to ask themselves the simple question: how are black people in the South better off now than they were back then? Today blacks have much greater rates of family breakdown leading directly to much greater rates of crime, which in turn leads to the flight of productive citizens (of any race) from the communities they might otherwise have invested their lives and livelihoods in. The result is blighted ghettos, gangs, multi- generational families on welfare, and far less racial interaction than in 1960 owing to the simple fact that most white people are rightly fearful to even visit, let alone settle down in, areas that are mostly black.

But on the plus side, black people no longer have to sit at the back of the bus! So there's that.


And I guess you think that slavery was good for black people because otherwise they would have been living in Africa in as savages dieing of all kinds of diseases, starvation and animal attacks. The slave owners took them out of those conditions and put a roof over their heads and fed them all for a honest days work.

This is what you believe isn't it?
 
2012-10-27 10:44:26 PM  

EvilRacistNaziFascist: Good for Alabama! At least they are willing to recognize that, because of the statistically well- attested fact that blacks victimize whites at a much greater rate than vice- versa, there are at least some protective benefits to be enjoyed by whites from segregation. Naturally, the presentation of this objectively neutral fact will be greeted by the usual suspects as "hate", "trolling", etc., though curiously none of those flinging around the sh*t will be able to dispute its basic accuracy.


people.virginia.edu


EvilRacistNaziFascist: You know, it's funny that it's taken as a given that the segregated 1950s were a terrible time for race relations by people who never trouble to ask themselves the simple question: how are black people in the South better off now than they were back then? Today blacks have much greater rates of family breakdown leading directly to much greater rates of crime, which in turn leads to the flight of productive citizens (of any race) from the communities they might otherwise have invested their lives and livelihoods in. The result is blighted ghettos, gangs, multi- generational families on welfare, and far less racial interaction than in 1960 owing to the simple fact that most white people are rightly fearful to even visit, let alone settle down in, areas that are mostly black.

But on the plus side, black people no longer have to sit at the back of the bus! So there's that.


people.virginia.edu
 
2012-10-27 10:49:26 PM  
Alabama has beautiful beaches.
 
2012-10-27 10:58:33 PM  

WhyteRaven74: EvilRacistNaziFascist: The result is blighted ghettos,

Ghettos are nothing new. And have little to do with race issues.


Yeah, I'm sure the fact that ghettoes across the US are racially segregated has nothing to do with race.

white people are rightly fearful to even visit, l

then again you're a coward so not like you really care to understand anything, you just try to justify your fear and ignorance.


OK darling, so put your money where your mouth is and move to a majority black area -- after all, all other things being equal the houses in those neighbourhoods are nice and cheap. (Apparently you can pick up a property in Detroit for $100.) I wouldn't want to think that you were a hypocrite like the other 99% of white liberals who, even as they preach racial equality, for mysterious reasons prefer to live in majority- white areas.
 
2012-10-27 11:02:26 PM  

EvilRacistNaziFascist: , I'm sure the fact that ghettoes across the US are racially segregated has nothing to do with race.


There are white ghettos. Living in a slum, or ghetto if you prefer, has historically not much to do with race. Indeed it wasn't that long ago a larger percentage of whites lived in them, though even now those slums are still referred to as tenements and other things that make them appear to be something other than what they were. And slums exist not because of the people living in them so much as the people who own the buildings.
 
2012-10-27 11:05:28 PM  

EvilRacistNaziFascist: move to a majority black area


Your assertion mentioned visiting. I've walked through plenty of black neighborhoods without a worry in the world.
 
2012-10-27 11:10:18 PM  
This is an "anti-tax" measure disguised as an "anti-racism" measure. The corporations and businesses that support this don't give a rat's ass about segregationist language in the state constitution, they wrote this as a loophole to reduce state funding for Alabama public schools.

So no, I wouldn't vote for it either. I'd rather leave the moron racist language intact than fark up public education, especially in a state that needs for its people to be educated so badly.

FTA: "Amendment 4 would excise outdated language about poll taxes and separate schools that many consider racist. But the critics say the language being proposed as a substitute undermines funding for public education by reaffirming that there is no right to a public education at taxpayers' expense in Alabama.

"It is a wolf in sheep's clothing. It seems so good but is so bad," said black Democratic Sen. Hank Sanders of Selma, a New South founder.

Alabama's constitution once provided for "a liberal system of public schools throughout the state for the benefit of the children." But attitudes changed after the U.S. Supreme Court banned school segregation in 1954. Angry Alabama citizens voted in 1956 to amend the constitution to say there is no right to a public education at taxpayers' expense and that "students shall attend schools provided for their own race." Both changes were meant to thwart integration."
 
2012-10-27 11:11:19 PM  

Damnhippyfreak: [people.virginia.edu image 500x75]


Damnhippyfreak: Merely enumerating what you believe to be argumentative fallacies is not the same as making an argument for or against anything: you also have to demonstrate that they are indeed fallacies by explicit reference to the facts under discussion. I contended that the life of black Americans prior to desegregation was in many points preferable to their lives today, and gave various examples to illustrate why this might be the case. In order to refute what I said, you would have to provide more numerous or more persuasive counter- arguments. Please either do so or quit making a parade of your ignorance.

Alternatively, of course, you could continue to take the easy way out and pretend that anyone who disagrees with you is a racist... although this tactic is now losing its effectiveness through overuse, it is still preferentially employed by those who find it too difficult to actually think.
 
2012-10-27 11:19:47 PM  

WhyteRaven74: EvilRacistNaziFascist: move to a majority black area

Your assertion mentioned visiting. I've walked through plenty of black neighborhoods without a worry in the world.


I haven't the slightest doubt that the meter- man can visit a black neighbourhood in the middle of the afternoon without worry, but the real test is whether or not he would be willing to buy a house in that very same neighbourhood and raise his family there. Why on earth do you think that houses are on offer for such laughably low prices in cities like Detroit or Camden if it were the easiest thing in the world for any ethnic outsider to settle and start a new life there? If it is racism and nothing more that makes it possible for a house in Detroit to be sold for $100 then enlightened liberals ought to take advantage of the widespread ignorance of others and to start buying up those properties and living there. Why don't they, I wonder?
 
2012-10-27 11:24:11 PM  
I'll just leave this here.
 
2012-10-27 11:33:08 PM  

Coco LaFemme: There are several states where, if we as a nation cut them loose, we wouldn't suffer for it. Alabama is one of those states. Take whatever may be of value to the government out, and then burn it to the ground.


i.imgur.com

Approves.
 
2012-10-27 11:34:36 PM  

WhyteRaven74: There are white ghettos. Living in a slum, or ghetto if you prefer, has historically not much to do with race. Indeed it wasn't that long ago a larger percentage of whites lived in them, though even now those slums are still referred to as tenements and other things that make them appear to be something other than what they were. And slums exist not because of the people living in them so much as the people who own the buildings.


You seem to be decades behind the times in referring to "tenements", most of which were gentrified or demolished long ago. At any rate, the reason why there is no such thing as a white ghetto is that poorer white people don't see themselves as being trapped in, say, a trailer court; they always have the idea that they could one day save up enough money to put down a deposit on a home in a better area. Since two- thirds of American blacks are officially counted as part of the middle- class, the same must be true of any black man living in the "ghetto"; he is not physically trapped, as the inhabitants of the real Jewish ghettoes in Europe were, but is able to take advantage of the same class mobility available to his white counterpart -- except of course that he is continually assured by "progressives" that his current socio- economic position is due to white racism, and that even any success he might achieve is ultimately an illusion given the realities of a wicked and prejudiced society. The real black ghettoes are of the mind, and that is why segregation or desegregation are of precious little importance by comparison.
 
2012-10-27 11:35:51 PM  

doyner: "In our rich history we have a tradition of ignorance. Men go to hell in degrees."


"Men go to hell in degrees."

That's an excellent statement. You have it in quotes. Who said it first?
 
2012-10-27 11:43:13 PM  
To change any state law in Alabama, you have to amend the state constitution. It is a unwieldy process, but an effective one. Nothing gets done, or changed. It may be archaic , but we have a ineffectual state government here, and I like that.
 
2012-10-27 11:49:40 PM  

ongbok: And I guess you think that slavery was good for black people because otherwise they would have been living in Africa in as savages dieing of all kinds of diseases, starvation and animal attacks. The slave owners took them out of those conditions and put a roof over their heads and fed them all for a honest days work.

This is what you believe isn't it?


I can't honestly say that I've considered the matter before in any depth, but if I were ever to bother to compare the state of recently imported black slaves in America vs. their free counterparts back in Africa I would actually try to take into account the facts of their respective conditions, rather than reflexively jumping to a pre- ordained conclusion based on self-righteous and ill- informed liberal outrage. But in any case this is irrelevant, as the explicit comparison I was making was between blacks prior to 1960 and those today. And I still maintain that the former group was on the whole better off than the latter. Just because my saying that outrages your sense of propriety doesn't mean that I'm actually wrong.
 
2012-10-27 11:59:06 PM  

kitsuneymg: Also. If you think Alabama is "dumb", please look up Huntsville and Redstone Arsenal. Basically, it's probably the highest educated city in the US. Silicon Valley might give us a run for the money, but the rest of the US is easily "dumber" than HSV.


I'm sure there are other ways to judge, but the US Census (American Community Survey) does track 'percent with BS and higher' (32.8% in the case of Huntsville, AL) and 'percent with a graduate degree' (12.8%). Not bad, mind you, but there are in fact 70 US Metropolitian/Micropolitan Areas out of 520 tracked with higher rates of both degree levels. In the Washington DC metro, for instance, it's 48%/22.9%.
 
2012-10-28 12:11:56 AM  

Lawnchair: kitsuneymg: Also. If you think Alabama is "dumb", please look up Huntsville and Redstone Arsenal. Basically, it's probably the highest educated city in the US. Silicon Valley might give us a run for the money, but the rest of the US is easily "dumber" than HSV.

I'm sure there are other ways to judge, but the US Census (American Community Survey) does track 'percent with BS and higher' (32.8% in the case of Huntsville, AL) and 'percent with a graduate degree' (12.8%). Not bad, mind you, but there are in fact 70 US Metropolitian/Micropolitan Areas out of 520 tracked with higher rates of both degree levels. In the Washington DC metro, for instance, it's 48%/22.9%.


Bachelor's degree or higher by the same survey for where I live is 56.3% with 30.2% with a graduate or professional degree, so suck it, Huntsville.
 
2012-10-28 12:12:54 AM  
/Downside: You have to have a bachelor's degree to work at McDonald's in this damn town.
 
2012-10-28 01:02:16 AM  

Coco LaFemme: There are several states where, if we as a nation cut them loose, we wouldn't suffer for it. Alabama is one of those states. Take whatever may be of value to the government out, and then burn it to the ground.


But me and my house are here :(
 
2012-10-28 01:02:50 AM  
A few weeks back I was listening to CBC Radio and they had a guy on who wrote a book suggesting that the US should let the South separate. Without the support of the North, they would either have get their acts together or fall into North Korean like dysfunction.

Alabama is doing a good job proving this guy's thesis correct.
 
2012-10-28 01:27:33 AM  

ArcadianRefugee: RedPhoenix122: CapeFearCadaver: And drunk, don't forget drunk.

This is Fark, it's assumed.

Obv. Not whiskey though.

CSB: Was cleaning out my car (it really was farking cluttered) two days ago and found an unopened bottle of Skyy.

Yay for the vodak faeries!


Whiskey fairies > Vodak fairies
 
2012-10-28 01:46:49 AM  

Electrify: A few weeks back I was listening to CBC Radio and they had a guy on who wrote a book suggesting that the US should let the South separate. Without the support of the North, they would either have get their acts together or fall into North Korean like dysfunction.

Alabama is doing a good job proving this guy's thesis correct.


If that happened you would see one of the biggest migrations north since after the Civil War.

But it will never happen because the South is where most of the easy to get to oil is, and we need that oil.
 
2012-10-28 02:22:46 AM  

EvilRacistNaziFascist: Damnhippyfreak: [people.virginia.edu image 500x75]

Damnhippyfreak: Merely enumerating what you believe to be argumentative fallacies is not the same as making an argument for or against anything: you also have to demonstrate that they are indeed fallacies by explicit reference to the facts under discussion. I contended that the life of black Americans prior to desegregation was in many points preferable to their lives today, and gave various examples to illustrate why this might be the case. In order to refute what I said, you would have to provide more numerous or more persuasive counter- arguments. Please either do so or quit making a parade of your ignorance.

Alternatively, of course, you could continue to take the easy way out and pretend that anyone who disagrees with you is a racist... although this tactic is now losing its effectiveness through overuse, it is still preferentially employed by those who find it too difficult to actually think.


Fair enough. I can state verbosely why these points of yours are somewhat shaky:


EvilRacistNaziFascist: Good for Alabama! At least they are willing to recognize that, because of the statistically well- attested fact that blacks victimize whites at a much greater rate than vice- versa, there are at least some protective benefits to be enjoyed by whites from segregation. Naturally, the presentation of this objectively neutral fact will be greeted by the usual suspects as "hate", "trolling", etc., though curiously none of those flinging around the sh*t will be able to dispute its basic accuracy.


people.virginia.edu

What you've stated here is a broken window fallacy since it only considers a very, very narrow subset of benefits, namely "protective benefits to be enjoyed by whites from segregation". The inferences you can make from such a narrow subset are equally narrow. In order to draw a wider conclusion, some consideration of many other ideas is necessary, such as blacks being able to access the same services, or the inherent benefits of an equitable society.

In the same form as your argument, you could also argue that Hitler's leadership was beneficial to Europe if you limit your consideration to, say, his push for expansion of the Autobahn. Misleading to say the least.


EvilRacistNaziFascist: You know, it's funny that it's taken as a given that the segregated 1950s were a terrible time for race relations by people who never trouble to ask themselves the simple question: how are black people in the South better off now than they were back then? Today blacks have much greater rates of family breakdown leading directly to much greater rates of crime, which in turn leads to the flight of productive citizens (of any race) from the communities they might otherwise have invested their lives and livelihoods in. The result is blighted ghettos, gangs, multi- generational families on welfare, and far less racial interaction than in 1960 owing to the simple fact that most white people are rightly fearful to even visit, let alone settle down in, areas that are mostly black.

But on the plus side, black people no longer have to sit at the back of the bus! So there's that.


people.virginia.edu

What you've posted is a post hoc fallacy since you've relied on a spurious correlation (while stating some trends of dubious veracity) without drawing any causal relationship. Correlation is not causation.

Along the same lines you could also blame what you've stated on, say, the emergence of Rock and Roll during the 50s (the Devil's music, no less).
 
2012-10-28 02:43:06 AM  

Britney Spear's Speculum: smitty04: Britney Spear's Speculum: Alabama will vote to keep the language. The spokesmen will cite "tradition" and "history"

Democrats are dying out in Alabama (George Wallace is gone), sounds like it is time to throw the whole thing out and start over again.

Yup, and I don't drive volkswaegons because Hitler started the company.


... pet peeve.
 
2012-10-28 02:59:12 AM  

taurusowner: There is no right to public education national defense. You cannot have a right to something that must exist through the effort of others. A right, by definition, is something you must be allowed to have. But that's impossible if it requires another person to fulfill it. You have the right to free speech, but not the right to be listened to, because that involves someone else. You have the right to self-defense, but not to be defended by others, because that forces effort on another to serve you. You have the right to practice your religion, but not to make others practice it too, because again, that would involve the necessary actions of someone else to be fulfilled. If your "right" requires action on the part of another person to be fulfilled, it cannot by definition be a right. Public education National defense (like public healthcare) absolutely requires someone else to act in order for it to be fulfilled. There has to be another person actively teaching protecting the public for there to be public education the US to be safe. That's why it can't be a right. What if that teacher soldier doesn't want to teach serve?.

 

So we shoud dissolve the DoD, eh?
 
2012-10-28 03:18:37 AM  

javawarlock: ArcadianRefugee: RedPhoenix122: CapeFearCadaver: And drunk, don't forget drunk.

This is Fark, it's assumed.

Obv. Not whiskey though.

CSB: Was cleaning out my car (it really was farking cluttered) two days ago and found an unopened bottle of Skyy.

Yay for the vodak faeries!

Whiskey fairies > Vodak fairies


OK, I'll ask: what's a good, reasonably priced whiskey? Every whiskey I've ever tried has made me want to punch the person who handed it to me.
 
2012-10-28 03:40:55 AM  
I lived in Alabama for about 15 years, and I think its a lot better than other places I have lived (MI,TX,TN & KY as examples). But I lived in Baldwin county.
 
2012-10-28 04:54:51 AM  
I bet there's going to be at least one asshat tea bagger that votes for segregation and will give the excuse later that "I'm not for segregation, but I felt that there should be at least one vote for our heritage", or some idiotic statement like that.
 
2012-10-28 05:18:13 AM  

Babwa Wawa: doyner: "In our rich history we have a tradition of ignorance. Men go to hell in degrees."

"Men go to hell in degrees."

That's an excellent statement. You have it in quotes. Who said it first?


It was a fake-ish quote. I've heard Baptist ministers say that several times. I have no idea who was the first.
 
2012-10-28 07:18:59 AM  

Lawnchair: kitsuneymg: Also. If you think Alabama is "dumb", please look up Huntsville and Redstone Arsenal. Basically, it's probably the highest educated city in the US. Silicon Valley might give us a run for the money, but the rest of the US is easily "dumber" than HSV.

I'm sure there are other ways to judge, but the US Census (American Community Survey) does track 'percent with BS and higher' (32.8% in the case of Huntsville, AL) and 'percent with a graduate degree' (12.8%). Not bad, mind you, but there are in fact 70 US Metropolitian/Micropolitan Areas out of 520 tracked with higher rates of both degree levels. In the Washington DC metro, for instance, it's 48%/22.9%.


In Huntsville, they tend to be real degrees. We primarily have engineers, not underwater basket weavers or political scientists. But if you want to count BS's in English, go ahead.

here's a random google search since i don't feel like tracing back to sources link
 
2012-10-28 07:24:49 AM  

thisisarepeat: (MI,TX,TN & KY as examples)


Yeah. I think I see your problem.
 
2012-10-28 07:48:36 AM  

kitsuneymg: In Huntsville, they tend to be real degrees. We primarily have engineers, not underwater basket weavers or political scientists. But if you want to count BS's in English, go ahead


Way to move those goal posts!

As someone with an engineering degree let me just say that there is more to the world than engineering. Also I know some pretty stupid people with engineering degrees, even from schools like Georgia Tech and Berkeley. I grew up in Alabama, in both rural and urban areas and can say without a doubt that there are tons of idiot mouth breathers across the state. Every state has their share of stupid people and smart people... some just have more of one group than the other. Alabama has a population of 4.8 million and most of them don't work for NASA. The fact that over 40% of the voters in 2000 voted to keep interracial marriage illegal should be a hint that a few zip codes clustered near federal government facilities aren't representative of the whole.
 
2012-10-28 08:53:22 AM  

LOTN: I'll assuming the rights to counsel and trial by jury need to be officially struck from the Bill of Rights as they require a lawyer and a group of your countrymen to be compelled to action.

Yes, the students' rights would be impinged. The government would, gasp, have to hire someone else. Or craft a law compelling members of the community to serve, similar to jury duty. We need educated youth. If we can't find someone to do it for pay, we'll have to make someone do it to avoid fines and whatnot.



As with the example of voting above, the right to counsel and a trial by jury are CONDITIONAL. You have a right to vote, IF an election is held. You have a right to counsel and a trial by jury IF you are accused of a crime by the state.
 
2012-10-28 09:38:36 AM  

Bucky Katt: Hopefully, Alabama will opt to join the 20th century. As for the 21st....


Fetus steps...
 
2012-10-28 12:53:49 PM  

skinink: "The second time won't be any easier than the first because Alabama's two largest black political groups are urging a "no" vote. They say the proposed changes would wipe out some racially charged language, but would retain segregation-era language saying there is no constitutional right to a public education in Alabama. And they've been joined by the state's main teachers' group in refusing to go along."
Is there anything a politician cannot properly fark up?


Well...

The Alabama Democratic Conference and the Alabama New South Alliance say the change, backed largely by white Republicans with a pro-business approach, looks like a "feel good" change but is not.

Amendment 4 would excise outdated language about poll taxes and separate schools that many consider racist. But the critics say the language being proposed as a substitute undermines funding for public education by reaffirming that there is no right to a public education at taxpayers' expense in Alabama.


Does that answer your question?
 
2012-10-28 01:16:36 PM  
Alabama: "You can't make us learn none!"
 
2012-10-28 02:30:17 PM  
I like all the people from California in this thread wanting to get rid of Alabama from the Union.

Look in a goddamned mirror.
 
2012-10-28 02:54:05 PM  

Old Smokie: I like all the people from California in this thread wanting to get rid of Alabama from the Union.

Look in a goddamned mirror.


Someone has to pay for Alabama.
 
2012-10-28 03:49:31 PM  

Cataholic: LOTN: I'll assuming the rights to counsel and trial by jury need to be officially struck from the Bill of Rights as they require a lawyer and a group of your countrymen to be compelled to action.

Yes, the students' rights would be impinged. The government would, gasp, have to hire someone else. Or craft a law compelling members of the community to serve, similar to jury duty. We need educated youth. If we can't find someone to do it for pay, we'll have to make someone do it to avoid fines and whatnot.


As with the example of voting above, the right to counsel and a trial by jury are CONDITIONAL. You have a right to vote, IF an election is held. You have a right to counsel and a trial by jury IF you are accused of a crime by the state.


I'm sure there was a point in your head. I wish you'd put it into your comment.

/ has no idea how the conditionality of when juries and counsel are appropriate has to do with rights not involving compelling others to service
// a right that conditionally requires others to service is still a right that compels others to service
 
2012-10-28 08:03:00 PM  

CruJones: Alabama has beautiful beaches.


SANDINISTA!!!
 
2012-10-28 09:21:29 PM  

Old Smokie: I like all the people from California in this thread wanting to get rid of Alabama from the Union.

Look in a goddamned mirror.


Yeah, but the people most likely to want California out are from states that should GTFO in a new Confederacy. That's not a coincidence.
 
2012-10-29 06:40:52 PM  
I have a theory:

"People who struggle with apostrophes tend to be Republican."
 
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