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(Daily Mail)   Out Of Sight, Out Of Mind: Uncompromising pictures from inside America's overcrowded prison system show the cramped lives lived by more than two million inmates   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 127
    More: Misc, u.s. prisons, federal prisons, state prisons, public space, prisons  
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19202 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Oct 2012 at 12:49 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-10-27 09:57:07 AM
20 votes:

Happy Hours: And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.


Last I checked, so is the decision to rob, stab and kill people.
2012-10-27 10:51:53 AM
13 votes:

me texan: Happy Hours: And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.

Last I checked, so is the decision to rob, stab and kill people.


Lol, that's funny how you think most people are in jail for violent crimes.
2012-10-27 11:09:23 AM
11 votes:
That's exactly what the tanks looked like in Harris County. I was in medical which was a tank that had 8 bunks per cell and there was 7 cells. And there was usually 4 extra people on the floor in the cells, not to mention all the people in the day room and near the showers. At one point, it was so bad you couldn't walk to the tables without stepping over someone. People were signing for their time as fast as they could just so they could get transferred to state or TDCJ. It was just a tightly packed warehouse.

Once I got moved to the trustee tank, things drastically improved. Lots more room and a few perks, plus we got to work outside mowing the grass all over Houston. I'm willing to bet a lot of those pictures were Gen Pop, probably 2 years or less. When I got moved to TDCJ, got a job at the library as soon as possible just so I wouldn't be in that mess. It was just a big warehouse type room but we had a little personal area around our beds separated with 3 foot high metal walls but it was a luxury in there.

I can't tell you what can be done about it except decriminalizing a lot of drugs or at least lowering the punishment. Most of the people in there don't mind at all that they're locked up. Especially if they're a somebody in there. I saw so many people get let out and be right back within a few months. And talking to a lot of inmates, they either think it's just great that they don't have to worry about bills or food and the ones that want to try to fly right go back to the same situation that got them there to begin with. When I was let out, I cut off all contact with old friends and moved. It was extremely hard but I did it, and that was 3 years ago. Halfway houses help a little but getting back into society after doing that is a lot harder than people think. It's a whole different world in there but I'm sure people that have served in the military know what I'm talking about, since I was locked up with a lot of military guys who told me it was about the same except the military had more things for them to do. It's a really complicated situation that is going to take a fix on multiple levels. Guess we should look at how Europe and Japan do things, much like they did us in the 1900's.
2012-10-27 12:14:38 PM
10 votes:

me texan: alwaysjaded: Halfway houses help a little but getting back into society after doing that is a lot harder than people think.

I cant begin to imagine how hard it is to get back into society. That being said, it sounds like you're moving in the right direction and I applaud you for it.

/agree with your points about decriminalization. War on Drugs has been a waste of time and money.


Au contraire. Its made the following categories quite a lot of money:

1) Police departments -- foreiture and siezure laws
2) Trial lawyers -- getting rich boys and girls out of jail
3) Prison industry -- Go to keep supply of prisoners up, got to build more private prisons. America fark yeah.
4) Medical industry -- make sure the more fun illegal drugs can't compete on a level playing field with the crappy modern drugs.
5) Security industry -- all those neat cop toys used to go after drug dealers -- drones, house sensors, flyovers in pot growing country, weapons and armored cars
6) Government. The DEA and its ever expanding mission and head count
7) Government 2 -- idiot politicians running on law and order platforms, promising to clean up crime which usually means go after people using drugs, or people selling drugs that wear colorful clothing and frighten people
8) The drug sellers themselves. If you don't die, you make bank, at least the ones do that run the organizations. These drug orgs pay bribes to cops and law enforcement. It is a fact.
9) Gun lobby / weapons industry: With drug crime, or the fear of it, rampant, got to make sure there's lots of gun sales all around, to worried homeowners, to conceal and carry vigilante dumbfarks like Zimmerman, to all the drug sellers themselves. Guns and ammo profits.
10) Alcohol industry. No legal competition from Pot or other low-risk drug taking.
11) Trial lawyers II: drunk driving edition. If all those drunk drivers were smoking weed instead, they would be home eating cheetos rather than out wrapping their car around a tree, being aggressive, and making stupid choices when drunk.
12) Sports industry. Do you honestly think a lot of pot smokers would give a crap about professional sports like drinkers do?
13) Gambling industry. Without drunks, who's gonna bet and lose millions a year?
14) Government III: Black ops / Black budget / CIA funding for drug ops. Billions have been sent down this rat hole. "Propping up the governments of Columbia and Peru."


So you see, illegal drugs are tightly woven into America's societal fabric. Just making them legal will never happen, at least not over night. Its been 40 years since quite a few of us have been saying the "War on Drugs" or what came before it were idiotic, wrongheaded, corrupt policies.

And yet...
2012-10-27 09:48:57 AM
10 votes:

me texan: Looks about the same as my barracks in basic training, except they have more freedoms apparently. Do they deserve better than soldiers in basic training / boot camp?

/not subby


Basic training lasts 6-8 weeks? It's designed to instill discipline and whip new recruits to the military into shape and there's little fear that the person in the next bunk is going to rape, stab or just plain beat the shiat out of you for whatever reason or even no reason.

And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.

It would be interesting to get the perspective of people who had both been through boot camp and a prison like this. I've not been to either one, but if you gave me a choice of a prison as pictured or boot camp, I think I'd take boot camp.
NFA [TotalFark]
2012-10-27 09:53:08 AM
9 votes:
Seeing at all those tattooed gang members who are likely there because they're too violent to be on the streets, DID NOT elicit ANY compassion from me.

In fact my thought is that we need to streamline executions for all known violent gang members. Simply belonging to a violent gang should warrant the death penalty. These groups exist to protect their members when they sell drugs, steal, rob, burglarize, rape, murder, kidnap, hold and sell sex slaves. I say we as a nation stop being a bunch of pussies and begin to systematically wipe out this growing criminal paradigm. If you don't think it's a growing problem in the US, go live in Juarez Mexico and see what our future holds.
2012-10-27 01:03:53 PM
8 votes:
From 1853 to 1972, California had four prisons. Today, they have 33, with plans to build fifteen more. Meanwhile violent crime rates have steadily dropped. Those are the facts. Draw your own conclusions.
2012-10-27 11:35:50 AM
8 votes:
One thing nobody here has asked is why we incarcerate so many more people than any other nation in the world.

Are people in the US that much more likely to be criminals?

Does every other country not punish crime that should be punished?

Anyone?
2012-10-27 11:07:12 AM
8 votes:
Ah, I see the 'criminals are subhuman' crowd is already here.
2012-10-27 10:25:31 AM
8 votes:
Ugh.

This reminds me of a moment from last weekend when a few of us women from church were talking to another member (who is an emigrant from Kenya). She was describing the prison conditions, which were appalling, and then a dyed-in-the-wool Republican spoke up and said "Is that a deterrent?"

The poor woman had to fumble to explain to this slightly hard-of-hearing soul that the law enforcement office is corrupt through and through, which I eventually summarized for her as "There's not much connection between who's actually guilty and who goes to jail."
2012-10-27 08:33:01 AM
7 votes:
I truly don't farking care. Don't like it? Don't be a crim.
2012-10-27 08:20:09 AM
7 votes:
Looks about the same as my barracks in basic training, except they have more freedoms apparently. Do they deserve better than soldiers in basic training / boot camp?

/not subby
2012-10-27 01:07:17 PM
6 votes:
For the "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time crowd": Do you ever think that maybe there might be a few too many crimes that result in prison time? That the US might jail people for shiat that other countries don't? That the political system is rigged in favour of politicians who can scream "SOFT ON CRIME"!!!!" the loudest? That jailing so many people, and saddling them with permanent criminal records, might have negative social consequences that far exceed the benefits?

Just thinking out loud.
2012-10-27 12:56:28 PM
6 votes:

me texan: Happy Hours: And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.

Last I checked, so is the decision to rob, stab and kill people.


7 out of 10 prisoners(America) are in for non-violent offenses
2012-10-27 12:30:10 PM
6 votes:

Happy Hours: One thing nobody here has asked is why we incarcerate so many more people than any other nation in the world.

Are people in the US that much more likely to be criminals?


Because there's money to be made in locking people up for any little thing someone can think of.
2012-10-27 12:12:03 PM
6 votes:

Generation_D: Also: Don't get arrested using drugs. Tough thing for some people. Society makes rules, and they're so unfair sometimes.


And I'm going to ask again: how does our current prison system reform? Our prison system doesn't work, and I know that by one simple fact: the single greatest predictor of crime is past incarceration. If you go to prison you are more likely to commit a crime than you were before.

How is that good?
2012-10-27 11:23:54 AM
5 votes:
i963.photobucket.com
2012-10-27 10:15:42 AM
5 votes:

me texan: Happy Hours: And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.

Last I checked, so is the decision to rob, stab and kill people.


Exactly, fark em.
2012-10-27 09:06:49 AM
5 votes:

kronicfeld: me texan: Do they deserve better than soldiers in basic training / boot camp?

This reeks of "Waterboarding isn't torture because SEALS are waterboarded as part of their training."


The article, as was my point is about living conditions. Nice job obfuscating the point by essentially Godwinning the discussion.

Their living conditions appear to be on par with NORMAL military life for soldiers in basic training and I have no problem with that. 

/Lighten up, Francis
2012-10-27 02:23:28 PM
4 votes:
A lot of Americans seem to have an abuser/abused relationship with their own government (which I suppose is to be expected when a government makes war on its own people). Some people really, really need to believe that there is a good reason why so many of their own citizens are punished so severely. I suppose it's a lot easier to identify with the abuser and think that as long as you mindlessly obey a set of arbitrary rules (e.g don't smoke pot) they'll leave you alone.

assets.rollingstone.com

"There's a perfectly good reason why that's not me and it's him. The right people always win, I'm sure of it."

/hot
2012-10-27 01:31:03 PM
4 votes:
I had a family member serve 30 days for DUI in colorado. He fully admitted that he deserved to go to jail, and we were all very lucky that when he was pulled over it wasn't because of a car accident or anything-- at least nobody got hurt.

He lost 15 lbs in jail (and he's a small guy) because the food was so inedible. He kept his head down so never got in trouble with the violent offenders-- this jail doubled as a way for people in prison to ease back into society-- but he slept in open bunkhouses like the ones pictured, and it would be very easy for people to get injured.

One man there contracted a MRSA infection while taking a shower and died because the conditions were so filthy.

Let me repeat that. One man, who may have been in there for almost nothing, DIED because the conditions are so deplorable.

Say what you will about people deserving to go to jail for one crime or another, no reasonable person can think that death by virulent bacterial infection, or malnutrition, or anal raping is an acceptable punishment
2012-10-27 12:16:21 PM
4 votes:

Generation_D: 2wolves: USA: All the justice you can afford.

yep, just like every country anywhere ever. Don't like it? make money.


You can't create a civil society through incarceration.
2012-10-27 12:11:51 PM
4 votes:

coco ebert: alwaysjaded

Consult Europe and Japan? But... but... that would involve acknowledging that America is not the greatest at everything we do!

/glad to hear you're doing better


I sinerely believe that America will correct itself once there's a changing of the guard in our leadership. We're still a very young country compared to the rest of the world and we're going to have some growing pains. I always get amused by how our friends across the pond are so quick to tell us why we suck. Yea, like the countries over there never had any dark times. They've had longer to deal with them. Of course, we should learn from our elders but this country needs to stop thinking in the past. I swear these days, America is like a washed up ex-supermodel.

/ and thank you for the kind words.
2012-10-27 11:20:31 AM
4 votes:

Generation_D: And I'm supposed to care, why exactly


How can prison rehabilitate in conditions like that? You do realize that's what prison sentences are supposed to do, right?
2012-10-27 11:19:55 AM
4 votes:

alwaysjaded: Halfway houses help a little but getting back into society after doing that is a lot harder than people think.


I cant begin to imagine how hard it is to get back into society. That being said, it sounds like you're moving in the right direction and I applaud you for it.

/agree with your points about decriminalization. War on Drugs has been a waste of time and money.
2012-10-27 10:47:26 AM
4 votes:

Happy Hours: And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.


me texan: Last I checked, so is the decision to rob, stab and kill people.


Aaaaaand we're done here.
2012-10-27 09:40:28 AM
4 votes:
Those rows and rows of bunk beds look pretty powder-keggy to me.
2012-10-27 08:43:15 AM
4 votes:

PC LOAD LETTER: I truly don't farking care. Don't like it? Don't be a crim.


www.weirdotoys.com
2012-10-27 09:52:45 PM
3 votes:
The more miserable you try to make prison, the more certain you can be it'll end up having people going in out. Increasing sentences for crimes in lieu of any substantive need, is not justice, it's not getting tough on crime, it's pure vengeance born of insecurity and fear and a need to feel better than someone. At the end of the day if you're not willing to protect those in prison, whether it be from poor living conditions, violence, rape and other things, then you have no real authority to clamor for holding them. Also you can't have things heavily slanted towards that which will most impact the poor and minorities. Stealing a car can't carry a more severe sentence than pilfering a million dollars from a company's coffers, it most certainly can't carry a worse sentence than abusing trust and scamming people for millions of dollars. Even stealing a whole bunch of cars ought not carry a worse sentence. Also throwing people into prison for nothing more than being drug addicts, doesn't work either.
2012-10-27 04:24:14 PM
3 votes:
www.arizonamedicalmarijuanablog.com
Gary Johnson
www.tokeofthetown.com
End the war on drugs.
Clemency for incarcerated or paroled non-violent drug offenders.
The extra resources can go into rehabilitation of those remaining incarcerated or paroled.
Ancillary crime rates will drop when drugs are decriminalized.
2012-10-27 01:28:15 PM
3 votes:

Eddie Ate Dynamite: The number of people in here with a "can't do the time don't do the crime" attitude is scary. Both the "fark'm, they're criminals" mentality itself and the life-view that allows you to so easily write-off other human beings. But it's all their fault right? No innocent person ever goes to prison, or if they do it's worth it to make sure no guilty people go free. And I would certainly never end up there, it's only those others who did the wrong things that everybody else can just not do.

I understand certain backward-thinking demographics having that attitude, but if you're here posting on FARK I wouldn't think you'd fall into any of them that squarely. Basically, I thought you were cool man.


The mentality of taking pleasure in the suffering of others is alive and well. Humans only need the slightest pretense to put people in the category of "Ok to enjoy their misfortune". If it could be proved beyond a shadow of any doubt that a more compassionate, and less punitive prison system (and it has already been proven well beyond that standards needed for reasonable people by other countries) resulted in less recidivism, less crime overall, and fewer violent crimes in particular, I believe most of these people would still be against it. They enjoy vengeance too much to be deprived of it.
2012-10-27 01:20:04 PM
3 votes:
The number of people in here with a "can't do the time don't do the crime" attitude is scary. Both the "fark'm, they're criminals" mentality itself and the life-view that allows you to so easily write-off other human beings. But it's all their fault right? No innocent person ever goes to prison, or if they do it's worth it to make sure no guilty people go free. And I would certainly never end up there, it's only those others who did the wrong things that everybody else can just not do.

I understand certain backward-thinking demographics having that attitude, but if you're here posting on FARK I wouldn't think you'd fall into any of them that squarely. Basically, I thought you were cool man.
2012-10-27 01:12:08 PM
3 votes:

mechgreg: PacManDreaming: Happy Hours: One thing nobody here has asked is why we incarcerate so many more people than any other nation in the world.

Are people in the US that much more likely to be criminals?

Because there's money to be made in locking people up for any little thing someone can think of.

If there is so much money to be made why are prisons and jails so overcrowded to the point where you hear about people getting early release because of no room?


Why do you think the private prison industry is clamoring to build more (while pushing for stricter sentencing laws under the guise of being "tough on crime")?

Google ALEC and private prisons.
2012-10-27 01:11:53 PM
3 votes:

Happy Hours: One thing nobody here has asked is why we incarcerate so many more people than any other nation in the world.

Are people in the US that much more likely to be criminals?

Does every other country not punish crime that should be punished?

Anyone?


Neither, actually. It turns out that the rate of prison admissions in the US is pretty comparable to the rest of the Western world. The difference is that punishments in the US tend to be much harsher and sentences for the same crimes tend to be much longer than in the rest of the West. We have more inmates not because we send more away, but because we don't let them out when they're in. Too lazy to get you a cite from my phone but it's easy to look it up.
2012-10-27 10:57:19 AM
3 votes:

Happy Hours: It would be interesting to get the perspective of people who had both been through boot camp and a prison like this. I've not been to either one, but if you gave me a choice of a prison as pictured or boot camp, I think I'd take boot camp.


On that Lockdown show, when they did Sheriff Joe's prison, I vaguely remember that one of the inmates they interviewed from Tent City had served in Iraq. I believe he said it was tremendously worse in prison.
2012-10-27 10:55:45 AM
3 votes:
USA: All the justice you can afford.
2012-10-27 08:59:39 AM
3 votes:
Clearly the only solution is to double down on the war on drugs.
2012-10-27 08:21:06 AM
3 votes:

me texan: Do they deserve better than soldiers in basic training / boot camp?


This reeks of "Waterboarding isn't torture because SEALS are waterboarded as part of their training."
2012-10-27 10:05:45 PM
2 votes:

DrewCurtisJr: Obviously people weren't happy with the results.


Whether or not people are happy is immaterial to the purposes of a functioning justice system.
2012-10-27 05:12:05 PM
2 votes:

PC LOAD LETTER: I truly don't farking care. Don't like it? Don't be a crim.


Or black.
2012-10-27 04:10:21 PM
2 votes:

mike0023: Nem Wan: The concept of liberty...

I don't know about concepts. I do know that my proposed solution will (1) rapidly reduce prison overcrowding, (2) remove violent criminals and thieves from our midst, (3) discourage other potential violent criminals and thieves. In my opinion, that would make our society better.


Deterrence is over-sold. People are not rational enough nor do they value their lives enough for that to work. There's a lot of untreated mental illness and addiction combined with people getting shiat on and pissed off. Make people more rational and give their lives more value and deterrence might be more relevant.

A good example of our system not being about deterrence: South Dakota recently executed Eric Robert. Apparently, he had a decent background, education and job, and did volunteer work. He was on his way to being every other middle-aged midwestern white guy. But he had a bad temper with women, acted on it, and committed a kidnapping that got him basically a life sentence. Nobody was killed, but essentially he ended his own life for all practical purposes. Rather than face decades doing nothing in prison, his anger, untreated, turned on the system and he decided to kill a prison guard and either escape or be executed. He didn't seem to care which. He pled guilty and asked to be executed as quickly as possible and the state obliged. Not only was the death penalty not a deterrent, it was his big ticket out here. A game of state-assisted suicide, with a guard's life as the achievement unlocked. Why did this have to happen? This was not a guy who was hopeless until whatever hidden mental illness he had motivated him to commit a serious crime, and our tough-on-crime, no-second-chances system said, "you're done, pal" and took all hope away. He was capable of reasoning and he reasoned he had no reason to put up with this shiat. He went to war to get himself out of prison, and apparently he won. I'm not saying go soft of kidnapping, but when someone is functional except in one area we should be looking at what psychiatry can do. Take crime seriously by seriously trying to FIX it. How much crime is because people's brains are broken in a treatable way? How much crime could be prevented by spending the same money productively? It seems like we almost enjoy making life harder than it has to be so we can get off on watching people go wrong.
2012-10-27 03:59:27 PM
2 votes:
From another thread, why prisons are overcrowded:
sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net
www.prisonpolicy.org
motherjones.com
2012-10-27 03:09:41 PM
2 votes:
Wow, there are some truly awful people in this thread.
2012-10-27 02:53:56 PM
2 votes:
This isn't a liberal or conservative only viewpoint. It's the fact that we as a society allow the government to keep forcing new laws and new laws and new laws down our throat. Then when we get popped, the rest shout out "stop breaking the law asshole" until they themselves get popped, and all of a sudden they were a victim; and new people will cry out "stop breaking the law asshole".

Point of fact is, every year politicians pass dozens and dozens of new laws to restrict our freedom. And zero to give it back. We have no one to blame but ourselves. But because we're all disgusting idiots who vote based on what letter is beside their name instead of what we feel they'll actually vote on, we allow it.

Enjoy your user-made society.
2012-10-27 02:39:15 PM
2 votes:

mike0023: LOL, yeah, a society that engages in mass executions for minor crimes would be such a nice place to live.

Better than a society that refuses to execute anyone, no matter how bad their crime.


There are several such societies, such as Denmark, where people are happier than they are in the USA, according to every study that has been done.
2012-10-27 02:37:53 PM
2 votes:

mike0023: omgwtfetc: mike0023: Last time I saw a prison overcrowding story on Fark, I came up with this solution:
1. Change criminal laws so that anyone convicted of theft or any kind of violent crime gets the death penalty.
2. Apply these laws retroactively to those currently incarcerated.
Any jurisdiction that applies this simple solution will quickly solve the problem of prison overcrowding and become a much nicer place to live.

LOL, yeah, a society that engages in mass executions for minor crimes would be such a nice place to live.

Better than a society that refuses to execute anyone, no matter how bad their crime.


Do you honestly believe that? I'm trying very hard not to Godwin this, but can you picture what a society that engages in mass executions of minor criminals would look like? Do you really think it would be "nice"?
2012-10-27 02:26:43 PM
2 votes:
End the drug war.
2012-10-27 02:23:19 PM
2 votes:
Oh boo fuking whoo. Quit being a gang member, (as most of those pictures show) or murdering, or molesting, or whatever dumb shiat you did to get in there in the first place. It's prison, it's not supposed to be comfortable or a good time.
2012-10-27 02:17:15 PM
2 votes:

Kit Fister: Happy Hours: me texan: Looks about the same as my barracks in basic training, except they have more freedoms apparently. Do they deserve better than soldiers in basic training / boot camp?

/not subby

Basic training lasts 6-8 weeks? It's designed to instill discipline and whip new recruits to the military into shape and there's little fear that the person in the next bunk is going to rape, stab or just plain beat the shiat out of you for whatever reason or even no reason.

And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.

It would be interesting to get the perspective of people who had both been through boot camp and a prison like this. I've not been to either one, but if you gave me a choice of a prison as pictured or boot camp, I think I'd take boot camp.

Oddly enough, Prison is also all volunteer. You just volunteer by voluntarily committing a crime that carries with it a prison sentence. I have no problems with this.


Because all laws are wise and fair and no one is ever wrongfully convicted.
2012-10-27 02:09:18 PM
2 votes:

tonguedepressor: An island that has farming, a big field where supplies and new inmates can be parachuted onto, no guards, no boats and one big ol heaping helping dose of Darwinism.


THIS

Also...

i.qkme.me
2012-10-27 01:20:15 PM
2 votes:

Generation_D: One last thought on that.

What if everyone just quit using? Not nancy reagan just say no, but eff you current system. Quit buying drugs, quit drinking, quit using medical products you have a say in using.

Send the entire messed up substance seller empire a nice message, the current system in America is effed up badly, so the hell with all of you, we're all going to go straight edge from now on.

Except coffee. Jesus H I'd go to prison before giving up coffee.


This isn't philosophy class. Most people with substance abuse problems will not stop using just to "stick it to the man". Yes, people are responsible for their own choices but you're using that as a cop out. In reality, a segment of the population will always find itself on the wrong side of the war on drugs, especially given current socioeconomic policies. That shouldn't disqualify them from being treated like human beings or having people care about them.
2012-10-27 01:15:20 PM
2 votes:

GAT_00: Ah, I see the 'criminals are subhuman' crowd is already here.


They're convicted criminals, FFS.


If you're so fond of them, take one in as a pet project after they parole out. You can find needy single inmates (male and female), just looking for someone to shack up with.


Go ahead, you bleeding hearts. Give it a try. Hell, take in your average convicted dealer and let me know how it works out.
2012-10-27 01:11:39 PM
2 votes:

me texan: Happy Hours: And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.

Last I checked, so is the decision to rob, stab and kill people.


Which are the only reasons that people go to jail.
2012-10-27 01:08:01 PM
2 votes:
"The reformative effect of punishment is a belief that dies hard, chiefly I think, because it is so satisfying to our sadistic impulses." - Bertrand Russell, Ideas That Have Harmed Mankind
2012-10-27 01:03:03 PM
2 votes:
Reminds me of the berthing aboard a navy ship.

www.mbaintheusa.com

I was on the USS Ronald Reagan
2012-10-27 12:57:40 PM
2 votes:
What do the jails look like they put people in who can't afford their bills? Debtors prisons are already making a comeback and will lead to more overcrowding.
2012-10-27 12:24:01 PM
2 votes:
Oh, left out:

15) Medical industry II: All the phony rehab crap, from psychology to 12 steps to addiction studies. With drugs legal, there would be no court-mandated rehab.
16) Medical industry III: If users can get their hands on clean and well made drugs of choice, they quit OD'ing on crap. So less risk to the user, and less chance of an accidental death due to a dosage being wildly off.


I'm sure there's more. Point is, you can't just legalize drugs. Washington State is going to try, we're voting on Marijuana legalization with many strings attached and in many ways a crappy law. And it had to be a crappy law with strings attached or law enforcement would have never signed off on it. So you see whats happening here, rather than the "common sense" legalization argument, we're having to do things in stages, that takes years if not decades. Its already been decades. A whole bunch of us wanted legalization as far back as the 70s. Then what happened, Ronald farking Reagan happened, and funding drug wars in central and south america. Set the drug lords up great, kept the cheap cocaine flowing north, Miami Vice was a top 10 hit show. Oh yeah -

17) Entertainment industry. Who will be the villain in all those great movies if you get rid of drug cartels because drugs are now legal?? Don't think Hollywood isn't aware of where they make their money. Ready made story trope: Drug dealer / gang.
2012-10-27 11:45:09 AM
2 votes:
alwaysjaded

Consult Europe and Japan? But... but... that would involve acknowledging that America is not the greatest at everything we do!

/glad to hear you're doing better
2012-10-27 11:34:10 AM
2 votes:

me texan:

I cant begin to imagine how hard it is to get back into society. That being said, it sounds like you're moving in the right direction and I applaud you for it.

/agree with your points about decriminalization. War on Drugs has been a waste of time and money.


Thanks. I had one thing going for me. My lawyer worked out a deal where I would do my time but wouldn't have a felony on my record. You got a felony on your record, game over. Can't do much of anything with one. When the lawyer was telling me about the offer, it was 4 months county or a year and 6 months of TDCJ plus shock probation which was 3 years of court every Monday, P.O. every Wednesday and groups 5 days a week and random drug tests 6 out of 7 days of the week. Everyone in the holding tank heard the deal and were all screaming at me to take the county time. I was about to sign and stopped and asked them all how bad had a felony on their record messed their lives up. Every single one of them said they were ruined. I signed for TDCJ. It was ABSOLUTE HELL staying in compliance but I did it.

Another point I wanted to add, there's another problem. Your court appointed lawyer is usually some guy fresh out of law school who has 8 other cases to work on just for that day. Throw in you've been living like cattle and a lawyer who just wants to close your file tells you to sign for probation and you get out that day. I saw a whole lot of people doing that who were destined to fail cause they were planning on getting high 30 minutes after being released.
2012-10-27 11:22:11 AM
2 votes:

alwaysjaded: That's exactly what the tanks looked like in Harris County. I was in medical which was a tank that had 8 bunks per cell and there was 7 cells. And there was usually 4 extra people on the floor in the cells, not to mention all the people in the day room and near the showers. At one point, it was so bad you couldn't walk to the tables without stepping over someone. People were signing for their time as fast as they could just so they could get transferred to state or TDCJ. It was just a tightly packed warehouse.

Once I got moved to the trustee tank, things drastically improved. Lots more room and a few perks, plus we got to work outside mowing the grass all over Houston. I'm willing to bet a lot of those pictures were Gen Pop, probably 2 years or less. When I got moved to TDCJ, got a job at the library as soon as possible just so I wouldn't be in that mess. It was just a big warehouse type room but we had a little personal area around our beds separated with 3 foot high metal walls but it was a luxury in there.

I can't tell you what can be done about it except decriminalizing a lot of drugs or at least lowering the punishment. Most of the people in there don't mind at all that they're locked up. Especially if they're a somebody in there. I saw so many people get let out and be right back within a few months. And talking to a lot of inmates, they either think it's just great that they don't have to worry about bills or food and the ones that want to try to fly right go back to the same situation that got them there to begin with. When I was let out, I cut off all contact with old friends and moved. It was extremely hard but I did it, and that was 3 years ago. Halfway houses help a little but getting back into society after doing that is a lot harder than people think. It's a whole different world in there but I'm sure people that have served in the military know what I'm talking about, since I was locked up with a lot of military guys who told me it was about the sam ...


Or, we can keep being America and doing things our own way. You can't vote any more, so you can't help change the system you know so much about. On the other hand, more than half of the population where you're from elects Republicans fairly often, and all they're interested in is making sure the prison population is kept high enough so their investments in prison contractors keep making money.

Til the voting public changes that, you're pretty much out of luck on "reform."

I doubt America will look anywhere for help, look at how we did TSA. Europe already had working systems, yet we went out and invented our own, which wound up being worse and less secure.

And got Chertoff paid, since his company owned the scanner contract for airports.

Crony Capitalism. When voting just isn't enough.

Also: Don't get arrested using drugs. Tough thing for some people. Society makes rules, and they're so unfair sometimes.
2012-10-27 11:17:16 AM
2 votes:
And I'm supposed to care, why exactly
2012-10-28 03:29:02 PM
1 votes:

NicoFinn: The amount of people calling for the death penalty in here is freaking me out. Y'all's some violent-ass people.

Maybe you'd benefit from a time out to think about your blood lust. I'm sure CA could find a ward for you armchair executioners.


In one of his essays, Bertrand Russell mentions how during the Inquisition, the inquisitors would sometimes show the mercy of strangling you before burning you at the stake if you confessed. But they had to be careful; if word got out, there was the chance that a mob might form, storm the jail, and burn the prisoner at the stake themselves. It seems that nothing enlivened the dreary lives of the peasants of the time like a good live burning, with the screams and such. And these people would not be deprived of their pleasure. That was only a few centuries ago, people haven't changed appreciably.
2012-10-28 05:58:56 AM
1 votes:

jim32rr: me texan: Happy Hours: And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.

Last I checked, so is the decision to rob, stab and kill people.

Exactly, fark em.


You stupid fark. You think THAT is what is filling our prisons?! Kill yourself.
2012-10-28 03:33:21 AM
1 votes:

TheHopeDiamond: So? I would seriously be ok with chaining them up four to a cell; one per wall.

Let's make prison a deterrant again.


Which would make suspected criminals even more dangerous while committing their crimes.
Instead of kidnap, kidnap and murder
Instead of rape, rape and murder
instead of robbery, robbery and murder
more dangerous for law enforcement as well, as the suspects will be much less likely to surrender given what awaits them if they do, and its the cops who will have to deal with what happens instead. 

The only deterrent factor will be less of a willingness to get captured, not less of a willingness to commit crime. There will always be criminals, no matter what the punishment. That is part of human nature.
2012-10-28 03:27:58 AM
1 votes:

filter: Happy Hours: One thing nobody here has asked is why we incarcerate so many more people than any other nation in the world.

Are people in the US that much more likely to be criminals?

Does every other country not punish crime that should be punished?

Anyone?

We rehabilitate- not punish- in Norway.


I don't get why this is such a difficult concept for people.

If you want to reduce crime--really reduce it--you rehabilitate the criminals.

Putting someone in prison only temporary solves the problem, because it only temporarily removes them from society. Once they return, they're often worse than they were before. Crimes will still be committed, sometimes worse than before, and people still suffer. We're basically spending millions to make things worse.

Other than sanctimonious self-righteousness, I don't see the benefit of such a system.
2012-10-28 01:13:36 AM
1 votes:

Happy Hours: One thing nobody here has asked is why we incarcerate so many more people than any other nation in the world.

Are people in the US that much more likely to be criminals?

Does every other country not punish crime that should be punished?

Anyone?


We rehabilitate- not punish- in Norway.
2012-10-28 12:03:18 AM
1 votes:

Godscrack: I like how all the do-gooders think being incarcerated will never happen to them.


The bootlicking statists in this thread don't realize they broke five laws before they got out of bed this morning, and that the only reason they aren't incarcerated is that the laws that they broke don't currently rank among the ones that "count."
2012-10-27 10:43:46 PM
1 votes:
3.bp.blogspot.com
2012-10-27 10:38:10 PM
1 votes:

DrewCurtisJr: The people elect the government, the government makes the laws, isn't that the way it is supposed to work? And in the case of 3 strikes in CA wasn't that approved by the voters?


In the case of crime and punishment we have a bit of a feedback loop. Certain people declare the only thing that can be done, without actually demonstrating this is the case, declare the only way to deal with crime is harsher punishments. People support them doing this. In turn more people repeat the same thing. You have people being told something that appeals to some part of their emotions, absent any substantiation that the idea is particularly effective or even desirable, and they then seek those who appeal to that part of their emotion. Law is supposed to be about reason, not emotional appeals. If you want to reduce crime, make sure you don't have people living in squalor without suitable food and public resources. That is actually being tough on crime, what others call being tough on crime is nothing of the sort, you're just practicing vengeance with those who've often found themselves with little in the way of options and a decision wherein on the balance of things as they perceived it committing a crime was not so much a risk but a worthwhile option.
2012-10-27 09:08:51 PM
1 votes:

Psycat: The real reason behind locking people up for growing a few pot plants has NOTHING to do with public health and everything to do with guaranteeing profits for Big Pharma, Big Tobacco, Big Booze, the privatized prison industry, the DEA, the prison guard unions and--most of all--the drug kingpins themselves who never get caught and make billions off the WoD. It's the low-level dealers, many of whom are just trying to pay the rent by selling an occasional sack, who suffer the brunt of our stupid WoD.

...

The main reason I'm against capital punishment is that far too many innocent people get railroaded by a corrupt legal system. I think that we should throw a lot more corrupt judges and cops in prison--they should be held to much higher standards than the rest of us because they have so damned much power. I really don't have faith in any system of Earthly justice--I personally knew some POS who literally got away with murdering a little girl, and there were at least two times that some black dude in Texas got a brutally heavy punishment (20+ years) for simple pot possession. I would absolutely love it if there were such a thing as karma or if there were a Judgment Day where people were actually judged for their behavior and not their church affiliation...


Low level dealers, yes. And these cops actually say "oh these are BAD guys"...no they're not. Most of the guys I've ever known who have moved some drugs to supplement their work income were nice, normal guys; guys with kids, who weren't violent, crazy, Scarface-like kingpins out in the street seeking blood for justice! It's so stupid to simplify it to "oh well if you can't do the time, don't do the crime!"...it's not that easy! So many people have no idea what it's like to be in utter poverty and willing to do whatever it takes to get the hell out of it, even if it means taking a little risk to make more money than you can doing literally ANYTHING else. And those are just the guys on the bottom, being happy with THEIR little take from the score. Like you said, think of how much the guys on the top are getting.

As for the police and judges being held to a higher standard, yes, I agree entirely. Their word is taken at face value in court proceedings, they hold people's lives and futures in their hand and if they decide to use that power unjustly, and get caught, then they deserve to have the book thrown at them. Look at that woman in MA, who was messing up all the drug samples and now pretty much EVERYTHING her lab touched is now in question...meaning a lot of people will probably be getting out of jail or getting a charge expunged from their record. Which is another big reason it upsets me so much to see politicians and bankers and all these public officials either getting a slap on the wrist or no conviction at all (having robbed people for millions and billions of dollars, sexually assaulted children, abusing the system in any and every conceivable way!), and yet they suffer no time in prison; but a guy (probably at the very end of his rope and in desperate need of psychiatric care) who holds up a liquor store gets 10 years. There is no sense of justice in this country. And like I had said before, it basically boils down to how much money any one person has to throw at their legal troubles as to whether or not it actually sticks to them.

But I am also against capital punishment because I don't think it is EVER worth it if even ONE innocent guy winds up dead,,,and I shudder to think of how many already have. There should be some sort of standard of proof; like you have to be 100% sure that the inmate committed the crime before they should even be considered for the death penalty. If there is even 1 tiny shred of doubt as to whether or not this person did it, then it shouldn't happen. But evidence can be fabricated, lies are always told in a criminal investigation, and police work is often sloppy. So even WITH a certain "standard", I wouldn't trust our officials to carry out their job in an objective, fair, and judicious manner.

One poster said they'd prefer if things were like they were in Scandinavia, where the prisons are more like "rehab-hotels" and I very much agree with that sentiment. Prisons do nothing but rob people of their time and keep them in a state of simply being "alive/conscious"; if we ever really want to get to the root of crime, then we need to really assess and help our prison population and address the problems at the very heart of it all, which is more often than not just extreme poverty...when you live far enough below the poverty line, ANY fate seems like a better one than continuing to be that farking poor anymore.
2012-10-27 08:54:19 PM
1 votes:
The thought of having to spend the next 15 years dealing with someone like this on a daily basis quickly ended any criminial aspirarations I had.
i79.photobucket.com
2012-10-27 08:25:54 PM
1 votes:
After reading through much of the thread it seems clear to me that one side of the issue is represented by logic, facts and rationale and the other side is arguing from a position of emotion (essentially fear).

And if people have learned anything from the war on drugs and terrorism it's that emotion trumps logic every time. The rational people are not getting involved enough.

\All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
2012-10-27 08:12:34 PM
1 votes:

DrewCurtisJr: Repo Man: And in the case of crime and punishment, the experts in the relevant fields of study will say the same about extremely punitive sentences and conditions. Not only are these things wrong morally, they don't even achieve the stated goal!

Don't achieve the stated goal, how do you figure. One of the goals of incarceration is keep society safe, a very small % of people are responsible for most of the violent crime. Keep these individuals locked up longer keeps these career criminals from victimizing more people.


In case you haven't noticed, this thread is full of people advocating all sorts of torture, capital punishments, etc. Mandatory minimums, very popular in the 80's, reflected the popularity of this sort of thinking. Rather than making drug dealing go away, sending every two bit drug dealer to do hard time resulted in a much worse class of criminals. Prison culture became the culture of the street. In general, they went in bad, and they came out worse.

Our prisons aren't overcrowded because we are keeping the incorrigible away from the rest of us.
2012-10-27 07:30:48 PM
1 votes:

Benjimin_Dover: GAT_00: Ah, I see the 'criminals are subhuman' crowd is already here.

Yeah. They don't usually hide from 'criminals are saints' crowd much.


Who's saying that criminals are saints?
2012-10-27 07:21:58 PM
1 votes:

Benjimin_Dover: Happy Hours: One thing nobody here has asked is why we incarcerate so many more people than any other nation in the world.

Are people in the US that much more likely to be criminals?

Does every other country not punish crime that should be punished?

Anyone?

The other countries kill more people for lesser crimes.


Do you honestly believe that explains why Italy, Norway, Canada, Germany, France, Great Britain, and so many other western countries have lower rates of incarceration?
2012-10-27 06:48:54 PM
1 votes:

Repo Man: Why stop there? Bring back crucifixion!


In Merrie Olde England, they hanged criminals for the crime of pick-pocketing. What's ironic is that there were plenty of pick-pockets working the crowds at these hangings.

If you start burning criminals at the stake for say, mugging, then the criminals have nothing to lose by beating their victims to death before stealing their wallet--if anything, they'd have one less witness to their crime.

Yes, my gut instinct is to see truly malevolent assholes like John Wayne Gacy hooked up to a torture machine and put through an immense amount of agony before being burned alive. However, I don't support such a position because you know damned well it will be used on innocent people or maybe some black guy in Texas caught with a couple of joints in his pocket...
2012-10-27 06:40:38 PM
1 votes:

TheHopeDiamond: So? I would seriously be ok with chaining them up four to a cell; one per wall.

Let's make prison a deterrant again.


Why stop there? Bring back crucifixion!
2012-10-27 05:34:59 PM
1 votes:
MrHelpful
"What Dr. Love is doing is stating the whole prison system is corrupt and akin to slavery. That's what's so stupid about this."

Actually, i just said corruption and glad-handing were responsible for "why prisons were overcrowded." I have yet to be disabused of this notion - you have yet to link to any citation that would disprove or even alleviate this statement, you have yet to put forth a preponderance of logically-consistent philosophy why what I was saying is "conspiratorial stupidity".

Our prison system does treat people like slaves.
The expansion of that system is linked to the profit made by private incarceration and forced labor of same.
There manifestly are plentiful examples of corruption within that system.

What exactly do you not get here?

gabrielcity.com
2012-10-27 05:09:35 PM
1 votes:

r1niceboy: The people who shout most loudly about living in a free society are always the ones happiest to see as many of their fellow citizens in jail.


I don't see an inconsistency. One's freedom can be impinged upon by the government (through taxes, regulations, etc.) or by criminals. Both pose a danger to freedom, both should be kept in check.
2012-10-27 05:08:56 PM
1 votes:

MrHelpful: TsukasaK: MrHelpful: Oh, wait, I know...they're ALL for profit because of the "industrial prison complex", right? Sheesh.

So, serious question, why do you dismiss this as it's some kind of laughable joke? Are you seriously implying there isn't a lot of damned money in the corrections business?

I'm seriously implying that none of this rises to the level of a conspiracy that some people (thankfully a very small number) seem to think it does.


It isn't a conspiracy; it's right out in the open, plain for all to see.
2012-10-27 05:08:03 PM
1 votes:

DrewCurtisJr: Repo Man: If we don't tolerate it, then why is it so common?

It's not when you look at the numbers. For certain groups, homosexuals, and women, it is much higher.


So gays and women who are subjected to unconsensual sex are skewing the numbers? Because we should only worry about about straight men being subjected to unwanted homosexual sex?

These people are in prison/jail. Every aspect of their lives is supposed to be under control of the facility in which they are housed. If someone commits a crime, we expect that person to serve their sentence. As a society, we have an obligation to make sure that they are not subjected to sexual enslavement when they are doing so. If we decided to, resources could be committed that would make it very rare. Or we could continue with the status quo, where guards sometimes use it as a tool for discipline.
2012-10-27 04:35:34 PM
1 votes:
The first example in the story is of a 14 year old who, gasp, was sentenced to a youth detention center and then was taken from his mommy and sent to a "school for troubled teens" for nine months. Something tells me there is a LOT more to that particular story than a "corrupt" judge.

Sentenced to a private facility by a judge who has since been convicted of receiving kickbacks for sentencing kids to private facilities. This is a blatant illustration of the conflict of interest inherent in for profit prisons/detention centers.
2012-10-27 04:24:03 PM
1 votes:

MrHelpful: omgwtfetc: MrHelpful: charmbomb: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 850x511]

Hope they are careful about which of these fine upstanding young men get released.

I see you are trolling.

A good friend of mine farked up and went to jail. Not a bad kid, just was in a bad way and got caught with a friend with drugs. His friend threw him under the bus for bigger shiat so that he could get off lighter. My friend went in a misguided kid that made a mistake, and came out looking like those guys and had a far bigger view of the world of crime. People learn to be dregs of society in prison, because that's what you have to do to get by.

It's quite amazing how everyone has a story. It's never their fault. And even if it is, well, it's not. And if you disagree, you're trolling. Brilliant!

It's a lot easier to just assume everyone gets exactly what they deserve, right?

Frankly, it's been my experience in life, that's exactly what happens. It's called karma. You should try it some time.


As you are apparently too lazy to click:

A giant amount of research has been done since his studies, and most psychologists have come to the same conclusion: You want the world to be fair, so you pretend it is.

"Zick Rubin of Harvard University and Letitia Anne Peplau of UCLA have conducted surveys to examine the characteristics of people with strong beliefs in a just world. They found that people who have a strong tendency to believe in a just world also tend to be more religious, more authoritarian, more conservative, more likely to admire political leaders and existing social institutions, and more likely to have negative attitudes toward underprivileged groups. To a lesser but still significant degree, the believers in a just world tend to 'feel less of a need to engage in activities to change society or to alleviate plight of social victims.'"

The Just-World Fallacy
2012-10-27 04:08:33 PM
1 votes:

DrewCurtisJr: Repo Man: Or any number of the reforms that could easily be instituted to do all that we are able to make incarceration something that actually improves things, rather than making them worse.

Like what?


Here's just one: eliminate prison rape. There is no excuse for prison rape. No one deserves it (no civilized country punishes people with rape), and if we as a country decided to, it could either be eliminated entirely, or made incredibly rare. It exists because we collectively tolerate it.
2012-10-27 04:06:59 PM
1 votes:

MrHelpful: omgwtfetc: MrHelpful: charmbomb: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 850x511]

Hope they are careful about which of these fine upstanding young men get released.

I see you are trolling.

A good friend of mine farked up and went to jail. Not a bad kid, just was in a bad way and got caught with a friend with drugs. His friend threw him under the bus for bigger shiat so that he could get off lighter. My friend went in a misguided kid that made a mistake, and came out looking like those guys and had a far bigger view of the world of crime. People learn to be dregs of society in prison, because that's what you have to do to get by.

It's quite amazing how everyone has a story. It's never their fault. And even if it is, well, it's not. And if you disagree, you're trolling. Brilliant!

It's a lot easier to just assume everyone gets exactly what they deserve, right?

Frankly, it's been my experience in life, that's exactly what happens. It's called karma. You should try it some time.


So can I go ahead and assume you're a white male of a mainstream religious denomination?
2012-10-27 04:05:35 PM
1 votes:
So let me get this straight, prison has become such a unpleasant place that we should stop sending criminals there?

Do you know that the recidivism rates for released prisoners in the United States of America is 60%

If it is so unpleasant, why do the criminals keep making the decision to commit crimes and put themselves back in such a hellish place?
2012-10-27 03:53:27 PM
1 votes:

Repo Man: Or maybe a system that doesn't just put those who can be salvaged in with those who cannot.


That's actually a good idea... so... like... different levels of prison. Where we try to keep the dangerous and incorrigible in certain prisons where we have heightened security... more and taller fences... less inmate freedoms... that kinda thing. Then something at the other end for non-violent and first offender types where they can take classes... even do work outside the prison to learn a skill.

You should write a letter dude... that is a farking excellent idea.
2012-10-27 03:50:55 PM
1 votes:

Pribar: I once spent a week in Marine transient berthing at naval station Philadelphia, when I checked in I wondered why all the doors were heavy steel with holes where they had used torches to cut locks out, my "room" was a 6x8 cell with no lock on the heavy steel door and a bungie cord holding it shut. I asked wtf was up and was told that it used to be the brig, but the Inspector General had ruled it unsafe for prisoners so they transferred them out, removed the locks and made it Marine berthing. So the place was unsafe for prisoners but just dandy for Marines, that told me exactly where the powers that be had us on the food chain...


The fact that you could get out easily at any time--nothing but a bungee cord holding the door shut, right?--probably made the building a lot safer to inhabit than it was when the doors locked from the outside. Fire, flood, earthquake, failure of the ventilation system, whatever, every marine gets up and leaves in a matter of minutes. Doesn't work that way with prisoners.
2012-10-27 03:45:37 PM
1 votes:

MrHelpful: Repo Man: The_Original_Roxtar: WAAAAAAH, I JOINED A GANG AND ROBBED PEOPLE, ASSAULTED PEOPLE, AND SOLD DRUGS OF MY OWN FREE WILL AND NOW THEY WON'T LET ME LEAVE THIS PRISON! WAAAAAAH

zero
farks
given

Stupid kid steals a car, get sent up to do hard time in one of our criminal factories. Serves his time, is released, breaks into your apartment, rapes your girlfriend in front of you, and kills you both. Doesn't give a fark. He learned some things in the joint you see, and one of them was that human life has no value at all. But you're ok with that.

Wow. Overwrought rhetoric much? Based on your logic, no one should go to jail because it will just turn them into murdering rapists.


Or maybe a system that doesn't just put those who can be salvaged in with those who cannot. Or any number of the reforms that could easily be instituted to do all that we are able to make incarceration something that actually improves things, rather than making them worse. But if you are happy with the idea of sending in a kid who made a stupid mistake, and releasing an animal who will kill you for looking at him funny without a second thought, our present system is for you.
2012-10-27 03:27:53 PM
1 votes:

MrHelpful: Repo Man: The_Original_Roxtar: WAAAAAAH, I JOINED A GANG AND ROBBED PEOPLE, ASSAULTED PEOPLE, AND SOLD DRUGS OF MY OWN FREE WILL AND NOW THEY WON'T LET ME LEAVE THIS PRISON! WAAAAAAH

zero
farks
given

Stupid kid steals a car, get sent up to do hard time in one of our criminal factories. Serves his time, is released, breaks into your apartment, rapes your girlfriend in front of you, and kills you both. Doesn't give a fark. He learned some things in the joint you see, and one of them was that human life has no value at all. But you're ok with that.

Wow. Overwrought rhetoric much? Based on your logic, no one should go to jail because it will just turn them into murdering rapists.


It's not a complicated concept but since some people seem to be having trouble with it, prison should not turn two bit criminals into murdering rapists, or you know nobody should ever go to prison, that's the ticket.
2012-10-27 03:26:58 PM
1 votes:

MrHelpful: Snowflake Tubbybottom: GAT_00: Generation_D: And I'm supposed to care, why exactly

How can prison rehabilitate in conditions like that? You do realize that's what prison sentences are supposed to do, right?

According to whom? It's nice if it happens but its more correct to say it simply segregates those who can't play nice in society from those who can. Given recidivism rates for most of the crimes calling their time incarcerated "rehabilitation" is just wishful thinking.

THIS.


It's entirely up to us what sort of prison system we have, and to a large degree, how effective it is at either releasing people who can live peacefully in society, or at releasing hopeless sociopaths who come out much worse than they were when they went in.
2012-10-27 03:24:58 PM
1 votes:

MrHelpful: charmbomb: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 850x511]

Hope they are careful about which of these fine upstanding young men get released.

I see you are trolling.

A good friend of mine farked up and went to jail. Not a bad kid, just was in a bad way and got caught with a friend with drugs. His friend threw him under the bus for bigger shiat so that he could get off lighter. My friend went in a misguided kid that made a mistake, and came out looking like those guys and had a far bigger view of the world of crime. People learn to be dregs of society in prison, because that's what you have to do to get by.

It's quite amazing how everyone has a story. It's never their fault. And even if it is, well, it's not. And if you disagree, you're trolling. Brilliant!


It's a lot easier to just assume everyone gets exactly what they deserve, right?
2012-10-27 03:05:06 PM
1 votes:
I thought I'd let everybody get their rants off their chests before I pointed something out:
overcrowded prisons are both a sign of social malaise and a potential source of social problems - problems that blow back on society as a whole. There's a lot more to it than "Oh, the poor prisoners are being mistreated, and my heart bleeds".
If they were the only people affected by this, it would be one thing - but that isn't the case, and there's little point in discussing it as if it were.
2012-10-27 03:03:03 PM
1 votes:
Today I learned that many Americans like to pay taxes for only 2 things:
1 Wars (already knew that one)
2 Prisoners

/also learned the similarity between those peoples' brains and US prisons: not enough cells
2012-10-27 03:01:26 PM
1 votes:

jim32rr: me texan: Happy Hours: And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.

Last I checked, so is the decision to rob, stab and kill people.

Exactly, fark em.


At least one of the pictures was from a county jail. Most jail inmates haven't been convicted of a crime and are awaiting trial.

And some people are jailed or imprisoned for growing marijuana, which isn't something that should be criminalized to the extent it is.
2012-10-27 02:37:27 PM
1 votes:

The_Original_Roxtar: zero
farks
given


and that is why you fail.
2012-10-27 02:32:15 PM
1 votes:

mike0023: Last time I saw a prison overcrowding story on Fark, I came up with this solution:
1. Change criminal laws so that anyone convicted of theft or any kind of violent crime gets the death penalty.
2. Apply these laws retroactively to those currently incarcerated.
Any jurisdiction that applies this simple solution will quickly solve the problem of prison overcrowding and become a much nicer place to live.


LOL, yeah, a society that engages in mass executions for minor crimes would be such a nice place to live.
2012-10-27 02:21:04 PM
1 votes:

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 850x511]

Hope they are careful about which of these fine upstanding young men get released.


I see you are trolling.

A good friend of mine farked up and went to jail. Not a bad kid, just was in a bad way and got caught with a friend with drugs. His friend threw him under the bus for bigger shiat so that he could get off lighter. My friend went in a misguided kid that made a mistake, and came out looking like those guys and had a far bigger view of the world of crime. People learn to be dregs of society in prison, because that's what you have to do to get by.
2012-10-27 02:14:41 PM
1 votes:

Happy Hours: me texan: Looks about the same as my barracks in basic training, except they have more freedoms apparently. Do they deserve better than soldiers in basic training / boot camp?

/not subby

Basic training lasts 6-8 weeks? It's designed to instill discipline and whip new recruits to the military into shape and there's little fear that the person in the next bunk is going to rape, stab or just plain beat the shiat out of you for whatever reason or even no reason.

And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.

It would be interesting to get the perspective of people who had both been through boot camp and a prison like this. I've not been to either one, but if you gave me a choice of a prison as pictured or boot camp, I think I'd take boot camp.


Oddly enough, Prison is also all volunteer. You just volunteer by voluntarily committing a crime that carries with it a prison sentence. I have no problems with this.
2012-10-27 02:13:11 PM
1 votes:
www.djmarquardt.com
There's your problem right there.
2012-10-27 02:07:24 PM
1 votes:
Where's the liberal derp pic of "STOP BREAKING THE LAW ASSHOLE"?

War on drugs? Let em go, victim of society.

Red light camera for revenue? STRING HIM UP BY HIS BAWLS.
2012-10-27 01:48:15 PM
1 votes:
i.dailymail.co.uk

Hope they are careful about which of these fine upstanding young men get released.
2012-10-27 01:35:27 PM
1 votes:

Repo Man: The mentality of taking pleasure in the suffering of others is alive and well. Humans only need the slightest pretense to put people in the category of "Ok to enjoy their misfortune". If it could be proved beyond a shadow of any doubt that a more compassionate, and less punitive prison system (and it has already been proven well beyond that standards needed for reasonable people by other countries) resulted in less recidivism, less crime overall, and fewer violent crimes in particular, I believe most of these people would still be against it. They enjoy vengeance too much to be deprived of it.


Most Americans would. But if MSNBC's Lockup series portrays the issue accurately, it really does appear that European prisons constitute the soft-on-crime rehabilitation hotels (one Belgian prisoner even compared prison food to food you'd get at a decent hotel--said while eating comfortably in his well lit cell in front of his not-insubstantially sized television) American conservatives imagine American prisons to be. And Anders Brevik's sentence is only 21 years (but he can be held longer if he's determined to constitute a threat). So this vengeance obsession isn't something inherent to the human character.

And if you're wondering, as a matter of public policy, I would strongly prefer our prisons to be soft-on-crime rehabilitation hotels.
2012-10-27 01:34:10 PM
1 votes:

Generation_D: 2wolves: USA: All the justice you can afford.

yep, just like every country anywhere ever. Don't like it? make money.


Actually, no, every country in the world manages to make do with sending fewer people to prison than the US does. Norway has less than one tenth as many people in prison per capita, has the cushiest prisons in the world, and also has the lowest re-offending rate in the world Go figure.
2012-10-27 01:26:54 PM
1 votes:
i.dailymail.co.uk
2012-10-27 01:21:57 PM
1 votes:

CruJones: Real question. Why does California, with its lax drug laws, liberal policies, etc lead in overcrowding?


Lax drug laws? Decriminalizing marijuana is about the only thing they've done. There are still plenty of other drugs you can be arrested for possessing in California.

Oh, yeah, there's also the three strikes laws, which the first offenders to be sentenced under it have only recently been able to be paroles (2009 would be the first year anyone with three strikes in California was eligible for parole). Sure, crime rates are down, but that doesn't eliminate those who are already in prison long-term. 

/And frankly, it's the extension of sentences, mandatory minimums, etc., combined with prosecutors that run for office on a "tough on crime" platform that have gotten us this far.
//And the private prison movement is only going to take us farther.
2012-10-27 01:21:27 PM
1 votes:

uber yeti: NFA: Seeing at all those tattooed gang members who are likely there because they're too violent to be on the streets, DID NOT elicit ANY compassion from me.

In fact my thought is that we need to streamline executions for all known violent gang members. Simply belonging to a violent gang should warrant the death penalty. These groups exist to protect their members when they sell drugs, steal, rob, burglarize, rape, murder, kidnap, hold and sell sex slaves. I say we as a nation stop being a bunch of pussies and begin to systematically wipe out this growing criminal paradigm. If you don't think it's a growing problem in the US, go live in Juarez Mexico and see what our future holds.

Who defines what a violent gang is? How do you positively identify their members? What are the standards to identify these people that will insure you are murdering the correct tattooed gang members "who are likely there because they're too violent to be on the streets"?


ecx.images-amazon.com
2012-10-27 01:15:02 PM
1 votes:

CruJones: Real question. Why does California, with its lax drug laws, liberal policies, etc lead in overcrowding?

/please do not take my use of the L word to imply I'm a republican. I'm not.


You're from Texas, so same thing. And the laws are set to appease the inland empire crowd. If you ignore SF and LA Commifornia turns pretty damn Red.
2012-10-27 01:15:02 PM
1 votes:
Keep doing what you're doing, and you'll keep getting what you're getting. Psychologists and social scientists who study this sort of thing for a living could have told them that the policies that have been implemented would lead to increased incarceration, increased recidivism, and a massive waste of taxpayer's money. But why bother to listen to poindexter over there, when "common sense" tells people that the answer to crime is "Lock em up and throw away the key"?
2012-10-27 01:14:46 PM
1 votes:

Evenbiggerknickers: you mean it's not like it is on TV?


You're gettin' awful mouthy, prag.
2012-10-27 01:14:23 PM
1 votes:

kronicfeld: me texan: Do they deserve better than soldiers in basic training / boot camp?

This reeks of "Waterboarding isn't torture because SEALS are waterboarded as part of their training."


No it doesn't. Just like those jails that put up tents, good enough for the troops more than good enough for a convicted criminal.So what what if they lack privacy? It is prison not the Four Seasons. They get fed , clothed etc.

Heck they have it better than some service members. Sailors on the Fast Attacks use to have to hot bunk (may still have to) meaning they do not have their own bed . While they were on watch somebody else is using it. If we use this standard we could argue that our prisons are under utilized. If you look at the pictures too many guys just standing around. Why are they not out breaking rocks or making license plates?

We could break the prisoners up in to 3- 8 hour rotating shifts 1 shift sleeping, 1 shift making license plates 1 shift attending classes/recreation (no weights)/showers with meal times squeezed into shifts.. That way the beds would never be empty and you could triple the prison capacity


You sound like one of those who supports the idea of a criminal being able to sue his victims.
2012-10-27 01:13:29 PM
1 votes:

Crewmannumber6: How many are in there for pot violations? Let's make that the first thing we change.

/don't smoke weed


In California, marijuana violations make up less than one percent of state incarcerations.
2012-10-27 01:13:18 PM
1 votes:

Happy Hours: And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.


For now.

That doesn't mean it always was, or always will be. We can still draft, you know.
2012-10-27 01:12:42 PM
1 votes:
Real question. Why does California, with its lax drug laws, liberal policies, etc lead in overcrowding?

/please do not take my use of the L word to imply I'm a republican. I'm not.
2012-10-27 01:11:41 PM
1 votes:
Looks like a POW camp for the War on Drugs.
2012-10-27 01:11:00 PM
1 votes:
Look at all of those precious little snowflakes!
2012-10-27 01:08:29 PM
1 votes:

ltdanman44: me texan: Happy Hours: And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.

Last I checked, so is the decision to rob, stab and kill people.

7 out of 10 prisoners(America) are in for non-violent offenses


The prison system is warehousing human beings.
2012-10-27 01:07:29 PM
1 votes:
How many are in there for pot violations? Let's make that the first thing we change.

/don't smoke weed
2012-10-27 01:06:25 PM
1 votes:

GAT_00: Generation_D: And I'm supposed to care, why exactly

How can prison rehabilitate in conditions like that? You do realize that's what prison sentences are supposed to do, right?


You still think our prison system is for rehabilitation? How cute.
2012-10-27 01:06:09 PM
1 votes:
Damn. Pauly's gonna have to slice the garlic extra thin.
www.adrowe.com
/there's no room for the lobsters and dago red
2012-10-27 01:05:50 PM
1 votes:

GAT_00: Ah, I see the 'criminals are subhuman' crowd is already here.


If we were talking about them being subhuman we'd be talking about killing them.

Someone who hurts society has to be pulled out of society.
2012-10-27 01:01:05 PM
1 votes:
Release all the non-violent drug offenders and prostitutes. Kill all the burglars, thieves, murders, rapists, and kid diddlers. Then there will be plenty of room to reform the drunk drivers and tax cheats.
2012-10-27 12:59:56 PM
1 votes:

Happy Hours: And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.


So's prison.
2012-10-27 12:25:49 PM
1 votes:

2wolves: Generation_D: 2wolves: USA: All the justice you can afford.

yep, just like every country anywhere ever. Don't like it? make money.

You can't create a civil society through incarceration.


Who said anything about creating a civil society? Drug users are already the ones that effed up badly enough to either kill someone over a drug deal, or get caught using because they couldn't control their own habit or use properly without getting caught or attracting attention to themselves.

I get it, you want to use, thats fine man, go ahead I have no problem with it.

But the rules say you are supremely effed if you use and get caught. So what do you do? Give in to poor impulse control, or learn to fit your vices around the current effed up legal system?

We all make our own choices.
2012-10-27 12:14:59 PM
1 votes:

alwaysjaded: coco ebert: alwaysjaded

Consult Europe and Japan? But... but... that would involve acknowledging that America is not the greatest at everything we do!

/glad to hear you're doing better

I sinerely believe that America will correct itself once there's a changing of the guard in our leadership. We're still a very young country compared to the rest of the world and we're going to have some growing pains. I always get amused by how our friends across the pond are so quick to tell us why we suck. Yea, like the countries over there never had any dark times. They've had longer to deal with them. Of course, we should learn from our elders but this country needs to stop thinking in the past. I swear these days, America is like a washed up ex-supermodel.

/ and thank you for the kind words.


Well, you're kind of assuming that every country goes through similar phases towards a pinnacle of development, but that's not really true. Every society has its own trajectory. There's no guarantee that the U.S. will keep increasing its wealth and power simply because we're young.
2012-10-27 11:38:47 AM
1 votes:
And meanwhile I'm listening to Victor Conte (Barry Bonds/Steroids) talk about the prison he was in. It was basically an athletic club. Everyone was playing tennis, basketball, even billiards. There were ZERO fences. For Christmas, inmates would walk out to the highway and their family would pick them up. Drugs were for sale. The female corrections officers made $30,000 a month as prostitutes.
2012-10-27 11:20:50 AM
1 votes:
where's the photo gallery of the lives of their victims?

/it'll be nice when Romney takes office and our tax dollars will start supporting those who are working to enhance and better their lives.
 
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