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(Daily Mail)   Out Of Sight, Out Of Mind: Uncompromising pictures from inside America's overcrowded prison system show the cramped lives lived by more than two million inmates   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 462
    More: Misc, u.s. prisons, federal prisons, state prisons, public space, prisons  
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19232 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Oct 2012 at 12:49 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-27 10:32:57 PM  
You can tell a lot about a person in how they treat those who are below them. Same for society.
 
2012-10-27 10:38:10 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: The people elect the government, the government makes the laws, isn't that the way it is supposed to work? And in the case of 3 strikes in CA wasn't that approved by the voters?


In the case of crime and punishment we have a bit of a feedback loop. Certain people declare the only thing that can be done, without actually demonstrating this is the case, declare the only way to deal with crime is harsher punishments. People support them doing this. In turn more people repeat the same thing. You have people being told something that appeals to some part of their emotions, absent any substantiation that the idea is particularly effective or even desirable, and they then seek those who appeal to that part of their emotion. Law is supposed to be about reason, not emotional appeals. If you want to reduce crime, make sure you don't have people living in squalor without suitable food and public resources. That is actually being tough on crime, what others call being tough on crime is nothing of the sort, you're just practicing vengeance with those who've often found themselves with little in the way of options and a decision wherein on the balance of things as they perceived it committing a crime was not so much a risk but a worthwhile option.
 
2012-10-27 10:40:32 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: Frederick: And those things (Polly Klaas) never happened again.

Is that a question?


No, its to be read with sarcasm. Three strikes laws didnt solve any problems and took the judgement out of the peoples hands. Three strikes laws are used in the war on drugs to incarcerate "easy" inmates while sex crimes go under-punished (Polly Klaas)

A person who shoplifts three times is not the danger to society that the one time (caught) child molester is -but guess who gets punished more? 

And if anyone ever wonders...legislators are less likely to enact harsh penalties for crimes they themselves are more likely of to be convicted.

Think about that.
 
2012-10-27 10:42:20 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Repo Man: The majority of us don't commit crime because of our internal values, rather than fear of the consequences.

I'm not disagreeing with the sentiment of your entire post... but I don't think this is true. My internal values tell me to treat others as I'd like to be treated (The REAL Golden Rule apparently). However... I'm not in the drug business solely due to the fear of getting caught. And this isn't some hypothetical case... I run in circles where there is lots of opportunity.

My own question to you would be... How many people would drive from San Diego to Chicago with 100 pounds of pot in their car for $2,500? Most wouldn't do it... and most of those that wouldn't do it don't have some grand moral objection... it's the fear of getting caught.


Comparing smuggling pot with rape, robbing banks etc. is apples and oranges. Smuggling pot is against the law because marijuana is illegal. I've yet to come across a valid reason for weed to be illegal, but rape has had negative consequences in most places and times throughout history. When I say most people don't commit crimes out of internalized mores, I'm talking about serious crimes - crimes that seriously violate people, or their property rights. Who among us has never been so angry at someone that we fantasized about killing them? Was it really the thought that you would likely be arrested that kept you from actually acting on your homicidal impulses? For some people, yes, but for most of us, no.
 
2012-10-27 10:43:46 PM  
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-10-27 10:47:27 PM  

Frederick: DrewCurtisJr: Frederick: And those things (Polly Klaas) never happened again.

Is that a question?

No, its to be read with sarcasm. Three strikes laws didnt solve any problems and took the judgement out of the peoples hands. Three strikes laws are used in the war on drugs to incarcerate "easy" inmates while sex crimes go under-punished (Polly Klaas)

A person who shoplifts three times is not the danger to society that the one time (caught) child molester is -but guess who gets punished more? 

And if anyone ever wonders...legislators are less likely to enact harsh penalties for crimes they themselves are more likely of to be convicted.

Think about that.


Joe Klaas, Marc Klaas' father, came out against the original three strikes law, and wanted to pass an initiative to change it to three violent felonies, rather than simply three felonies. Last I heard, he and his son weren't talking as a result. but that's old news, and they may have reconciled.
 
2012-10-27 10:47:42 PM  

John Buck 41: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 320x240]


That's cool that you cared enough about demonstrating that you didn't care to upload a picture to Fark...
 
2012-10-27 10:51:09 PM  

Repo Man: Pray 4 Mojo: Repo Man: The majority of us don't commit crime because of our internal values, rather than fear of the consequences.

I'm not disagreeing with the sentiment of your entire post... but I don't think this is true. My internal values tell me to treat others as I'd like to be treated (The REAL Golden Rule apparently). However... I'm not in the drug business solely due to the fear of getting caught. And this isn't some hypothetical case... I run in circles where there is lots of opportunity.

My own question to you would be... How many people would drive from San Diego to Chicago with 100 pounds of pot in their car for $2,500? Most wouldn't do it... and most of those that wouldn't do it don't have some grand moral objection... it's the fear of getting caught.

Comparing smuggling pot with rape, robbing banks etc. is apples and oranges. Smuggling pot is against the law because marijuana is illegal. I've yet to come across a valid reason for weed to be illegal, but rape has had negative consequences in most places and times throughout history. When I say most people don't commit crimes out of internalized mores, I'm talking about serious crimes - crimes that seriously violate people, or their property rights. Who among us has never been so angry at someone that we fantasized about killing them? Was it really the thought that you would likely be arrested that kept you from actually acting on your homicidal impulses? For some people, yes, but for most of us, no.


Don't know that I disagree... but my point was that even if you remove the moral implications: a drug mule who think they're not hurting anybody vs a sociopath who thinks it's okay to rape women... it's still the fear of getting caught that will stop a rational person... it will even stop a rational sociopath... if there is such a thing. Prisons are full (not literally) of criminals who have no internal moral compass AND no fear of getting caught. You can't remove one from the other.
 
2012-10-27 10:57:07 PM  

Frederick: DrewCurtisJr: Frederick: And those things (Polly Klaas) never happened again.

Is that a question?

No, its to be read with sarcasm. Three strikes laws didnt solve any problems and took the judgement out of the peoples hands. Three strikes laws are used in the war on drugs to incarcerate "easy" inmates while sex crimes go under-punished (Polly Klaas)

A person who shoplifts three times is not the danger to society that the one time (caught) child molester is -but guess who gets punished more? 

And if anyone ever wonders...legislators are less likely to enact harsh penalties for crimes they themselves are more likely of to be convicted.

Think about that.


The Three-Strikes Law is just an exercise in legislative stupidity. I agree with you that it's mostly to fill the prisons with low-level drug offenders and for good reason: low-level drug offenders are more likely to do telemarketing and other work for ten cents an hour than a murderer and they can more easily be guarded by low-paid guards with a minimum of training. Murderers can't be as easily exploited for slave labor and require guards who are actually qualified.

When it comes to violent crimes like murder, you shouldn't need a three-strikes law. One life-without-parole sentence is all it takes. Having read up a bit about serial killers, it's really amazing how many of them did get convicted of murder in their early years, and then got out of prison after just a few years (prison overcrowding, shiathead parole board), and then went off to commit more murders.

As for laws governing private, consensual behavior between adults (prostitution, pot smoking, cigarette smoking, gambling, fornication, etc.), I think all of them are inherently unconstitutional and should be immediately stricken from the law books.

And if some goddam Helen Lovejoy plays the "Won't somebody think of the children" card and tries to pass a law against consensual behavior, they should be tarred, feathered, and thrown into prison for treason against the Constitution. IMO, throwing somebody in prison for a victimless 'crime' is a violent crime itself, and the Helen Lovejoys are just as dangerous to a democracy as John Wayne Gacy...
 
2012-10-27 11:06:30 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Law is supposed to be about reason, not emotional appeals. If you want to reduce crime, make sure you don't have people living in squalor without suitable food and public resources. That is actually being tough on crime, what others call being tough on crime is nothing of the sort, you're just practicing vengeance with those who've often found themselves with little in the way of options and a decision wherein on the balance of things as they perceived it committing a crime was not so much a risk but a worthwhile option.


It's not like people are unreasonable. Like I said before they are reconsidering the 3 strikes law. And prisons are actually a lot more humane than they used to be, so they don't always support being harsh, it works both ways.
 
2012-10-27 11:10:02 PM  

Frederick: No, its to be read with sarcasm. Three strikes laws didnt solve any problems and took the judgement out of the peoples hands. Three strikes laws are used in the war on drugs to incarcerate "easy" inmates while sex crimes go under-punished (Polly Klaas)

A person who shoplifts three times is not the danger to society that the one time (caught) child molester is -but guess who gets punished more?



Crime is way down, so don't say 3 strikes didn't solve any problems. Also get caught molesting a child and you will do a long prison term, and then you will be a registered sex offender for life which will make you unemployable, a social pariah, and your housing options are limited to under remote bridges and industrial waste dumps.
 
2012-10-27 11:16:50 PM  

Psycat: John Buck 41: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 320x240]

That's cool that you cared enough about demonstrating that you didn't care to upload a picture to Fark...


?
 
2012-10-27 11:18:44 PM  
 
2012-10-27 11:19:09 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: Crime is way down, so don't say 3 strikes didn't solve any problems


I personally know several (and have heard of many other) people in CA who got strike number two and FINALLY turned their lives around when they got out... simply out of fear of collecting their third strike. I think it's undeniable that "Three Strikes" succeeded in it's intended goal... for a lot of people, that second strike meant the end to your career as a criminal. Unfortunately... I don't think that modicum of success was worth the wreckage it brought with it.
 
2012-10-27 11:21:55 PM  

Psycat: As for laws governing private, consensual behavior between adults (prostitution, pot smoking, cigarette smoking, gambling, fornication, etc.), I think all of them are inherently unconstitutional and should be immediately stricken from the law books.


So... is there some point when you will actually be running for King of the World?
 
2012-10-27 11:29:41 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: Frederick: No, its to be read with sarcasm. Three strikes laws didnt solve any problems and took the judgement out of the peoples hands. Three strikes laws are used in the war on drugs to incarcerate "easy" inmates while sex crimes go under-punished (Polly Klaas)

A person who shoplifts three times is not the danger to society that the one time (caught) child molester is -but guess who gets punished more?


Crime is way down, so don't say 3 strikes didn't solve any problems. Also get caught molesting a child and you will do a long prison term, and then you will be a registered sex offender for life which will make you unemployable, a social pariah, and your housing options are limited to under remote bridges and industrial waste dumps.


What world do you live in?

Link

"Violent crime, but especially homicide, has fallen in the Los Angeles area, as well as other areas of the southland-Los Angeles's 2010 homicide count was 297, less than a third of the 1992 high of 1,000 homicides.[6] However, this may just be a correlation and not causal, as violent crime has also fallen in other areas of California where the three strikes law is not enforced. It should also be noted that punishments for homicides are extremely harsh, resulting in extremely long sentences, life sentences without the possibility of parole or even the death penalty, even for the first conviction, overshadowing any deterrent effect of the three strikes law."

And I dont want to google at work paroled child molesters -but you should to educate yourself.
 
2012-10-27 11:31:55 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: I personally know several (and have heard of many other) people in CA who got strike number two and FINALLY turned their lives around when they got out... simply out of fear of collecting their third strike. I think it's undeniable that "Three Strikes" succeeded in it's intended goal... for a lot of people, that second strike meant the end to your career as a criminal. Unfortunately... I don't think that modicum of success was worth the wreckage it brought with it.


Like I said before there is an initiative to change the 3 strikes to 3 violent felonies, but this won't open the flood gates of people getting out of prison. People aren't always out for blood and they don't want to see a car thief locked up for life. Though if you are facing 25 years to life for stealing a Camry you should receive a "Too stupid to live among us" sentence if you think it is worth it.
 
2012-10-27 11:34:13 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: Crime is way down, so don't say 3 strikes didn't solve any problems.


That crime is down does not necessarily follow from 3 strikes law. There could be any number of reasons for it. And saying that crime is down because of 3 strikes also doesn't justify it.
 
2012-10-27 11:36:32 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: So... is there some point when you will actually be running for King of the World?


I'd be afraid to. If I ran on the ticket of rational thinking and opposition to official bullshiat, I'd have every politician, theologian, and lawyer on my case. Hell, I'd have half the world going after me.

I wonder at times that that there's a certain amount of stupidity and obfuscation deliberated worked into the system, either by evolution or by design. Organized religion exists because people apparently need some intermediary in a funny hat to talk to God on a magical telephone because they never thought of connecting to God via direct dial. For some of us to have even a middle-class lifestyle, there almost needs to be a certain percentage of poor people who make themselves economically exploitable by having more kids than they can afford to feed. We need stupid people pumped up on propaganda to fight our wars because the rich who start the wars in the first place aren't going to fight their own battles. And so on, ad infinitum...
 
2012-10-27 11:40:50 PM  
BTW, I finally did RTFA already. Said in it that the California Supreme Court ordered the release of 30,000 prisoners over the next few years. I don't know much about the mandatory minimum laws of California, but I'd be scared shirtless that they'd be dumping rapists and murderers on the streets to make room for drug dealers. The WoD is turning out to be far, far, far more of a public policy disaster than Prohibition ever was...
 
2012-10-27 11:46:33 PM  

Frederick: What world do you live in?


I live in reality and base my positions of fact even if it doesn't agree with my ideology. Homicides aren't the only form of violent crime.

And I dont want to google at work paroled child molesters -but you should to educate yourself.

Educate myself? Google Megan's law.
 
2012-10-27 11:47:24 PM  

Frederick: Link

"Violent crime, but especially homicide, has fallen in the Los Angeles area, as well as other areas of the southland-Los Angeles's 2010 homicide count was 297, less than a third of the 1992 high of 1,000 homicides.[6] However, this may just be a correlation and not causal, as violent crime has also fallen in other areas of California where the three strikes law is not enforced. It should also be noted that punishments for homicides are extremely harsh, resulting in extremely long sentences, life sentences without the possibility of parole or even the death penalty, even for the first conviction, overshadowing any deterrent effect of the three strikes law."

And I dont want to google at work paroled child molesters -but you should to educate yourself.


I don't know of any counties in CA where the Three Strikes law is "not" enforced. There are lots where it is enforced selectively... but not at all... never heard of such a thing.

This is why we shouldn't get our "facts" from Wikipedia.

I'm looking now... but if you have some information on which counties don;t enforce it... I'm all ears.
 
2012-10-27 11:51:30 PM  

WhyteRaven74: That crime is down does not necessarily follow from 3 strikes law. There could be any number of reasons for it.


There are a number of reasons for it, such as better technology and more police on the streets, but most people who study the issue conclude that lengthy prison terms are partly responsible.

And saying that crime is down because of 3 strikes also doesn't justify it.

It gets results and it gives people multiple chances, 3 felonies takes effort.
 
2012-10-27 11:54:54 PM  

Psycat: Pray 4 Mojo: So... is there some point when you will actually be running for King of the World?

I'd be afraid to. If I ran on the ticket of rational thinking and opposition to official bullshiat, I'd have every politician, theologian, and lawyer on my case. Hell, I'd have half the world going after me.

I wonder at times that that there's a certain amount of stupidity and obfuscation deliberated worked into the system, either by evolution or by design. Organized religion exists because people apparently need some intermediary in a funny hat to talk to God on a magical telephone because they never thought of connecting to God via direct dial. For some of us to have even a middle-class lifestyle, there almost needs to be a certain percentage of poor people who make themselves economically exploitable by having more kids than they can afford to feed. We need stupid people pumped up on propaganda to fight our wars because the rich who start the wars in the first place aren't going to fight their own battles. And so on, ad infinitum...


Yeah... but whatta ya gonna do?

Society needs classes... almost by definition. It certainly doesn't hurt for people to be able to freely move between classes (based on their ability to... or lack thereof)... but without the three... or four... or five... or six different levels... it just doesn't work.

/or seven...
 
2012-10-28 12:01:07 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Yeah... but whatta ya gonna do?

Society needs classes... almost by definition. It certainly doesn't hurt for people to be able to freely move between classes (based on their ability to... or lack thereof)... but without the three... or four... or five... or six different levels... it just doesn't work.

/or seven...


The older I get, the more I'm convinced that I really can't do anything at all. That's why I'm being ironic about being King of the World; even in the 0.000000000001% I ever get that much power, I'd probably screw it up worse. The best I can hope to do is to fend for myself and maybe help out a friend or family member on occasion...
 
2012-10-28 12:03:18 AM  

Godscrack: I like how all the do-gooders think being incarcerated will never happen to them.


The bootlicking statists in this thread don't realize they broke five laws before they got out of bed this morning, and that the only reason they aren't incarcerated is that the laws that they broke don't currently rank among the ones that "count."
 
2012-10-28 12:15:25 AM  

Man On Pink Corner: Godscrack: I like how all the do-gooders think being incarcerated will never happen to them.

The bootlicking statists in this thread don't realize they broke five laws before they got out of bed this morning, and that the only reason they aren't incarcerated is that the laws that they broke don't currently rank among the ones that "count."


Woke up... pissed... had a cigarette... brushed my teeth... got dressed... drove to the job (at or below the speed limit in the car I own which is insured and registered)... watched laborers unpack crates... made sure they took a break... signed 'em out... drove back here... had a beer... watched the WS and Farked for awhile... now I'm typing this.

It's really not hard to not break the law.
 
2012-10-28 12:18:25 AM  

Psycat: Pray 4 Mojo: Yeah... but whatta ya gonna do?

Society needs classes... almost by definition. It certainly doesn't hurt for people to be able to freely move between classes (based on their ability to... or lack thereof)... but without the three... or four... or five... or six different levels... it just doesn't work.

/or seven...

The older I get, the more I'm convinced that I really can't do anything at all. That's why I'm being ironic about being King of the World; even in the 0.000000000001% I ever get that much power, I'd probably screw it up worse. The best I can hope to do is to fend for myself and maybe help out a friend or family member on occasion...


Good a plan as any.

Don't usually do this... but... it's been a pleasure, but I'm outta here. Thanks for the insight.
 
2012-10-28 12:23:54 AM  

Man On Pink Corner: The bootlicking statists in this thread don't realize they broke five laws before they got out of bed this morning, and that the only reason they aren't incarcerated is that the laws that they broke don't currently rank among the ones that "count."


There are laws that I don't break because they harm people and I don't break them for moral reasons, for the others I weigh the penalties and chance of getting caught vs. the benefits, but I still accept the consequences if I'm caught. Just like everyone else.
 
2012-10-28 12:28:50 AM  

DrewCurtisJr: Frederick: What world do you live in?

I live in reality and base my positions of fact even if it doesn't agree with my ideology. Homicides aren't the only form of violent crime.

And I dont want to google at work paroled child molesters -but you should to educate yourself.

Educate myself? Google Megan's law.


Aright, I didnt want to but here you go:
Paroled sex offenders

Second article (of 241,000 results):
"A paroled sex offender with a record of committing crimes involving children has been arrested again, this time after a woman told Evansville Police Department officers he entered her house and grabbed her daughter Tuesday."

There are a lot of these results.

My original point was that sex crimes are under-punished partially as a result of over crowded prisons from the war on drugs (also because legislators are soft on sex crimes). Three strikes law are not being used to deter violent crimes but to incarcerate "easy" drug offenders beneficial to the prison industry.
 
2012-10-28 12:37:01 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: This is why we shouldn't get our "facts" from Wikipedia.


Yes, I agree. But at work I try to limit how wide my web is. At least Wikipedia uses sources that can be verified or disputed as a jumping off point.

DrewCurtisJr: I live in reality and base my positions of fact even if it doesn't agree with my ideology.


Thanks for the link. I do like the CSM. The article did have a kind of contradictory take on the Three strikes law.

Not all the steps taken against crime are uniformly seen as positive, though.

Mandatory-sentencing rules, such as "three strikes" laws that have spread to states including California, Florida, and Pennsylvania since 1993, have had a positive impact on crime rates. But Fox of Northeastern suggests that the cost of incarcerating more Americans has other less-desirable effects.

"It certainly is true that while someone is incarcerated they can't be out on the streets doing crime," he says. "But at what cost to the education that could keep them from crime in the first place? We are robbing Peter - i.e., the education system - to pay Paul - the penal system. It's impossible to call that a clear victory."
 
2012-10-28 12:38:17 AM  
Why can't the poor and uneducated stop breaking the law and just poop out some kids so they government takes care of them, like everyone else?
 
2012-10-28 12:39:48 AM  

Frederick: My original point was that sex crimes are under-punished partially as a result of over crowded prisons from the war on drugs (also because legislators are soft on sex crimes). Three strikes law are not being used to deter violent crimes but to incarcerate "easy" drug offenders beneficial to the prison industry.


That link doesn't support your point, there is nothing in that article that suggests that this guy was let out to make room for drug offenders. And it does make a case that this repeat offender should never have been let out in the first place.

I don't know how you conclude that legislators are soft on sex crimes. Sex offenders are often required to register for decades if not life, and the guy in the story was wearing a tracking device.
 
2012-10-28 12:42:16 AM  

kronicfeld: me texan: Do they deserve better than soldiers in basic training / boot camp?

This reeks of "Waterboarding isn't torture because SEALS are waterboarded as part of their training."


I'm sorry, the correct answer is no. No they don't deserve better. Thanks for playing.
 
2012-10-28 12:43:28 AM  

Frederick: Thanks for the link. I do like the CSM. The article did have a kind of contradictory take on the Three strikes law.


You're welcome. No one denies it is expensive to keep people locked up. But there is a cost to society in having criminals victimize use. Like everything else it is weighing the cost vs. benefits. Both economically and the type of society we want to have.
 
2012-10-28 12:59:49 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Onkel Buck: The thought of having to spend the next 15 years dealing with someone like this on a daily basis quickly ended any criminial aspirarations I had.
[i79.photobucket.com image 280x210]

That's racist.


You = shallow thinking
 
2012-10-28 01:13:36 AM  

Happy Hours: One thing nobody here has asked is why we incarcerate so many more people than any other nation in the world.

Are people in the US that much more likely to be criminals?

Does every other country not punish crime that should be punished?

Anyone?


We rehabilitate- not punish- in Norway.
 
2012-10-28 01:47:05 AM  
Then why do so many of the residents work so hard to return after their initial visit?
 
2012-10-28 01:54:24 AM  

BobDeluxe: I'm sorry, the correct answer is no. No they don't deserve better. Thanks for playing.


So prisoners should live in shiat and we should be glad they do?
 
2012-10-28 03:27:58 AM  

filter: Happy Hours: One thing nobody here has asked is why we incarcerate so many more people than any other nation in the world.

Are people in the US that much more likely to be criminals?

Does every other country not punish crime that should be punished?

Anyone?

We rehabilitate- not punish- in Norway.


I don't get why this is such a difficult concept for people.

If you want to reduce crime--really reduce it--you rehabilitate the criminals.

Putting someone in prison only temporary solves the problem, because it only temporarily removes them from society. Once they return, they're often worse than they were before. Crimes will still be committed, sometimes worse than before, and people still suffer. We're basically spending millions to make things worse.

Other than sanctimonious self-righteousness, I don't see the benefit of such a system.
 
2012-10-28 03:33:21 AM  

TheHopeDiamond: So? I would seriously be ok with chaining them up four to a cell; one per wall.

Let's make prison a deterrant again.


Which would make suspected criminals even more dangerous while committing their crimes.
Instead of kidnap, kidnap and murder
Instead of rape, rape and murder
instead of robbery, robbery and murder
more dangerous for law enforcement as well, as the suspects will be much less likely to surrender given what awaits them if they do, and its the cops who will have to deal with what happens instead. 

The only deterrent factor will be less of a willingness to get captured, not less of a willingness to commit crime. There will always be criminals, no matter what the punishment. That is part of human nature.
 
2012-10-28 05:58:56 AM  

jim32rr: me texan: Happy Hours: And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.

Last I checked, so is the decision to rob, stab and kill people.

Exactly, fark em.


You stupid fark. You think THAT is what is filling our prisons?! Kill yourself.
 
2012-10-28 06:03:39 AM  

Happy Hours: me texan: Looks about the same as my barracks in basic training, except they have more freedoms apparently. Do they deserve better than soldiers in basic training / boot camp?

/not subby

Basic training lasts 6-8 weeks? It's designed to instill discipline and whip new recruits to the military into shape and there's little fear that the person in the next bunk is going to rape, stab or just plain beat the shiat out of you for whatever reason or even no reason.

And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.

It would be interesting to get the perspective of people who had both been through boot camp and a prison like this. I've not been to either one, but if you gave me a choice of a prison as pictured or boot camp, I think I'd take boot camp.


Thats because 1) you havent been to basic training, but mostly its because 2) Basic is a joke for those that end up in in a combat arms MOS like 13F for instance. Have been to jail and to 13F AIT for about the same amount of time, no question, hands down, no doubt, no hesitation, jail is farking paradise in comparison.
 
2012-10-28 06:17:04 AM  

Frederick: After reading through much of the thread it seems clear to me that one side of the issue is represented by logic, facts and rationale and the other side is arguing from a position of emotion (essentially fear).

And if people have learned anything from the war on drugs and terrorism it's that emotion trumps logic every time. The rational people are not getting involved enough.

\All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.


Have you ever considered the possibility that rational people have realized the futility of their efforts and decided that the emotional people probably deserve what's coming to them?
 
2012-10-28 06:17:35 AM  

Generation_D: 2wolves: Generation_D: 2wolves: USA: All the justice you can afford.

yep, just like every country anywhere ever. Don't like it? make money.

You can't create a civil society through incarceration.

Who said anything about creating a civil society? Drug users are already the ones that effed up badly enough to either kill someone over a drug deal, or get caught using because they couldn't control their own habit or use properly without getting caught or attracting attention to themselves.

I get it, you want to use, thats fine man, go ahead I have no problem with it.

But the rules say you are supremely effed if you use and get caught. So what do you do? Give in to poor impulse control, or learn to fit your vices around the current effed up legal system?

We all make our own choices.


Heel It Down The Drain: I see the anti-"War on Drugs" crowd is here. "Waaa, if we just legalize drugs, the prisons would be at 10% capacity".
How about you quit using until that day comes chief? After a month, you may not want to pick up that joint or start sniffing coke up your nose. After they're legalized, you can go back to pretending illicit drugs aren't harmful for you.


How about you shove a pineapple up your ass, chief? Do not tell me what to do with my life. I seriously doubt you have made a greater sacrifice for our society than I have, so go fark yourself with fore mentioned fruit.
 
2012-10-28 06:41:44 AM  

thisisarepeat: Generation_D: 2wolves: Generation_D: 2wolves: USA: All the justice you can afford.

yep, just like every country anywhere ever. Don't like it? make money.

You can't create a civil society through incarceration.

Who said anything about creating a civil society? Drug users are already the ones that effed up badly enough to either kill someone over a drug deal, or get caught using because they couldn't control their own habit or use properly without getting caught or attracting attention to themselves.

I get it, you want to use, thats fine man, go ahead I have no problem with it.

But the rules say you are supremely effed if you use and get caught. So what do you do? Give in to poor impulse control, or learn to fit your vices around the current effed up legal system?

We all make our own choices.

Heel It Down The Drain: I see the anti-"War on Drugs" crowd is here. "Waaa, if we just legalize drugs, the prisons would be at 10% capacity".
How about you quit using until that day comes chief? After a month, you may not want to pick up that joint or start sniffing coke up your nose. After they're legalized, you can go back to pretending illicit drugs aren't harmful for you.

How about you shove a pineapple up your ass, chief? Do not tell me what to do with my life. I seriously doubt you have made a greater sacrifice for our society than I have, so go fark yourself with fore mentioned fruit.


Dumbass argument. You think because you made some great sacrifice, you deserve to take drugs the rest of your life. Laws are laws, and what's illegal is illegal. Seems like you're rationalizing just a wee bit.
/keep your pineapple duuuuuuuude
 
2012-10-28 07:05:02 AM  

Frederick: After reading through much of the thread it seems clear to me that one side of the issue is represented by logic, facts and rationale and the other side is arguing from a position of emotion (essentially fear).

And if people have learned anything from the war on drugs and terrorism it's that emotion trumps logic every time. The rational people are not getting involved enough.

\All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.


Wow, great post:
"Gee, there's two sides to the debate and one of them is silly. I'm not telling you which side I'm on, you'll have to guess. -quote some famous guy-"

Nifty. Whoever wins the World Series is the team I've always rooted for. Why would waste my time (like some people) cheering for the losing side?

/ In-ter-jec-tion: Wow! Gee! Nifty!
// Hurray! I'm for the other team!!
/// Or by a comma when the feeling's not as strong
 
2012-10-28 08:03:29 AM  

WhyteRaven74: DrewCurtisJr: Obviously people weren't happy with the results.

Whether or not people are happy is immaterial to the purposes of a functioning justice system police state.


FTFY

/those who try to tell you that your free country is already a police state, are the ones trying to turn it into one
//sadly, they seem to be winning
 
2012-10-28 08:15:05 AM  
There are 1, 298,000 laws or regulations on the books that can get you into prison. They can find one for you.
 
2012-10-28 10:25:50 AM  
They like to exercise so much make em all work hard labor for life sentences. They all like to shiat so close together, film it, and sell the vids on the internet to perverts. Sick that people don't know right from wrong but know how to steal someone's identity or override a vehicle's computer. So f em.
Probably one of the reasons I am not a rich man. It is very easy to flip atm kiosks with the old mitm beige box attack. Even easier if they are wifi. Do I like to watch grown men shiating and skullfarking me? Nope. I stay broke but not broken lol. I suspect that many of these people don't have hobbies or interests outside of pussy and getting money to get farked up. That is a very short road, my friend. And don't forget the meatloaf at the Cook County slammer lol.
 
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