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(Daily Mail)   Out Of Sight, Out Of Mind: Uncompromising pictures from inside America's overcrowded prison system show the cramped lives lived by more than two million inmates   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 462
    More: Misc, u.s. prisons, federal prisons, state prisons, public space, prisons  
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19238 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Oct 2012 at 12:49 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-27 08:38:24 PM  

Dr._Love: MrHelpful
"What Dr. Love is doing is stating the whole prison system is corrupt and akin to slavery. That's what's so stupid about this."

Actually, i just said corruption and glad-handing were responsible for "why prisons were overcrowded." I have yet to be disabused of this notion - you have yet to link to any citation that would disprove or even alleviate this statement, you have yet to put forth a preponderance of logically-consistent philosophy why what I was saying is "conspiratorial stupidity".

Our prison system does treat people like slaves.
The expansion of that system is linked to the profit made by private incarceration and forced labor of same.
There manifestly are plentiful examples of corruption within that system.

What exactly do you not get here?

[gabrielcity.com image 764x532]


That chart is such bullshiat and I can't believe you're that stupid to believe it:

The STATE pays everything. The lawyers to prosecute. The representation for the accused (they can't afford lawyers most of the time). All the people overseeing the prison from the warden down to the lowly secretary is a state worker (all Unionized).

CA wastes BILLIONS of dollars on these lowlifes. As has been pointed out earlier, less than 1% of the inmates in CA state prisons are there for non-MJ related crimes.

Inmates make things like soap, detergent, and do the laundry. How much profit is in those industries???
Want to talk slave labor? Inmates fight over these jobs. It's time out of the yard for one thing, and the jobs aren't difficult to do.

Educate yourself with REAL WORLD experience, not some stupid chart.
 
2012-10-27 08:39:42 PM  
PS: "non-MJ related crimes" should be MJ (as in cannabis) related crimes.
 
2012-10-27 08:41:42 PM  

Psycat: If I were the King of the World, every jackass who thinks people should be in prison for non-violent offenses would themselves be given ten years, which is about how long it would take for these knuckleheads to get a clue.


Bernie Madoff... Ken Lay... etc... they never violented anybody... no prison for them?

Psycat: The real reason behind locking people up for growing a few pot plants has NOTHING to do with public health and everything to do with guaranteeing profits for Big Pharma, Big Tobacco, Big Booze, the privatized prison industry, the DEA, the prison guard unions and--most of all--the drug kingpins themselves who never get caught and make billions off the WoD. It's the low-level dealers, many of whom are just trying to pay the rent by selling an occasional sack, who suffer the brunt of our stupid WoD.


Exactly this.

Psycat: The main reason I'm against capital punishment is that far too many innocent people get railroaded by a corrupt legal system.


This as well... I have no moral qualms about capital punishment. I just think it's silly to assume that our system can be 100% accurate... ever.
 
2012-10-27 08:51:00 PM  

Psycat: If I were the King of the World, every jackass who thinks people should be in prison for non-violent offenses would themselves be given ten years,


I've been held up at gun point when I was working the cash register (violent crime), and if they caught the guy I think he should have done some time. I was a little shaken up but I recovered in a few hours. Some people steal the life savings of people who are 70 and will never be able to recover 50+ years of hard work. Non-violent but I think deserve 10x the sentence of a robber, both for the intent and the callousness of the crime.
 
2012-10-27 08:53:33 PM  
Does any sane person on Fark (all 3 of us) ever think that our system of justice is perfect? That no murderer has gotten away with it because of wealth or judicial incompetence? That no innocent person was ever railroaded by a corrupt system?

I think the desire for justice is just as strong a motivating factor in religious belief as the desire for eternal life. If I had the unshakable conviction that justice will ultimately triumph, I'd sleep easier at night.

Personally, I love the idea of karma, that every good or bad deed will ultimately come back to the doer. And this isn't just an Eastern concept; a lot of pagan and folk belief systems teach that 'what goes around, comes around' or otherwise that you'll be paid back for everything you do. Wiccans have the concept of the Law of Thrice Return where everything you do comes back in triplicate.

With karma, justice may extend over several reincarnations. If some evil person is living well in this lifetime, it's because he's going to get payback in the next one; if some good person is suffering badly in this life, he's paying off a karmic debt from a former life. If John Wayne Gacy got off lightly in this world, it just means that he's going to be brutally tortured and murdered for the next 33 incarnations and have a close friend or family member murdered in the next several hundred incarnations.

Then there's the idea of a Judgment Day. I like the pagan version in which one's sins are put in one pan, one's good deeds in the next, and the tilt of the scales determines his or her eternal fate. A refinement is that the degree that the scales tilt in one direction or another dictates the height of heaven or depth of hell the person gets.

The Christian version of Judgment Day nauseates me. It has nothing to do with being good or bad and everything to do with whether or not you stroke Jesus' monstrous ego. Josef Stalin, who murdered tens of millions, can repent on his death bed and go straight to heaven without a single moment's punishment. A saintly non-Christian like Gandhi can devote his life to doing good and will still burn in hell. Some of the more brutal denominations of Christianity believe that non-baptized infants and even aborted/miscarried fetuses are now burning in hell. That's why I think the evil bastard Jehovah, if he exists, should be the first person sent to the fires of hell...
 
2012-10-27 08:54:19 PM  
The thought of having to spend the next 15 years dealing with someone like this on a daily basis quickly ended any criminial aspirarations I had.
i79.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-27 08:58:10 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Bernie Madoff... Ken Lay... etc... they never violented anybody... no prison for them?


Oops, I didn't state that one well. I really meant to write "victimless" instead of "non-violent". I do think Madoff and Lay do deserve to be punished thoroughly. Since they're basically non-violent, I don't think they should be sent to a maximum-security prison. They should be forced to work their butts off in a minimum-security lockup until they've paid double or triple restitution to their victims.
 
2012-10-27 09:00:09 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: I've been held up at gun point when I was working the cash register (violent crime), and if they caught the guy I think he should have done some time. I was a little shaken up but I recovered in a few hours. Some people steal the life savings of people who are 70 and will never be able to recover 50+ years of hard work. Non-violent but I think deserve 10x the sentence of a robber, both for the intent and the callousness of the crime.


I stated it wrong. I really was thinking "victimless" instead of "non-violent". I do realize that swindlers and other white-collar criminals can do a lot of damage to other people...
 
2012-10-27 09:03:48 PM  

Onkel Buck: The thought of having to spend the next 15 years dealing with someone like this on a daily basis quickly ended any criminial aspirarations I had.
[i79.photobucket.com image 280x210]


That's racist.
 
2012-10-27 09:04:52 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Onkel Buck: The thought of having to spend the next 15 years dealing with someone like this on a daily basis quickly ended any criminial aspirarations I had.
[i79.photobucket.com image 280x210]

That's racist.


Arg. You beat me to it!
 
2012-10-27 09:07:43 PM  
Now you know the liters frustration when we open a new greenlight with 30 posts in it already that stole all the funny.

/Racism is not funny though.
//Mostly.
 
2012-10-27 09:08:45 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: That's racist.


I know you're being snarky, but let me play Devil's Advocate anyways. Maybe it's not the skin pigmentation that makes the guy scary; maybe it's the serious muscles, the angry look on the prisoner's face, and even the inside-out shirt with the sleeves ripped off usually indicates somebody with a bad attitude. And maybe he's in prison in the first place for smashing in some honky's skull...
 
2012-10-27 09:08:51 PM  

Psycat: The real reason behind locking people up for growing a few pot plants has NOTHING to do with public health and everything to do with guaranteeing profits for Big Pharma, Big Tobacco, Big Booze, the privatized prison industry, the DEA, the prison guard unions and--most of all--the drug kingpins themselves who never get caught and make billions off the WoD. It's the low-level dealers, many of whom are just trying to pay the rent by selling an occasional sack, who suffer the brunt of our stupid WoD.

...

The main reason I'm against capital punishment is that far too many innocent people get railroaded by a corrupt legal system. I think that we should throw a lot more corrupt judges and cops in prison--they should be held to much higher standards than the rest of us because they have so damned much power. I really don't have faith in any system of Earthly justice--I personally knew some POS who literally got away with murdering a little girl, and there were at least two times that some black dude in Texas got a brutally heavy punishment (20+ years) for simple pot possession. I would absolutely love it if there were such a thing as karma or if there were a Judgment Day where people were actually judged for their behavior and not their church affiliation...


Low level dealers, yes. And these cops actually say "oh these are BAD guys"...no they're not. Most of the guys I've ever known who have moved some drugs to supplement their work income were nice, normal guys; guys with kids, who weren't violent, crazy, Scarface-like kingpins out in the street seeking blood for justice! It's so stupid to simplify it to "oh well if you can't do the time, don't do the crime!"...it's not that easy! So many people have no idea what it's like to be in utter poverty and willing to do whatever it takes to get the hell out of it, even if it means taking a little risk to make more money than you can doing literally ANYTHING else. And those are just the guys on the bottom, being happy with THEIR little take from the score. Like you said, think of how much the guys on the top are getting.

As for the police and judges being held to a higher standard, yes, I agree entirely. Their word is taken at face value in court proceedings, they hold people's lives and futures in their hand and if they decide to use that power unjustly, and get caught, then they deserve to have the book thrown at them. Look at that woman in MA, who was messing up all the drug samples and now pretty much EVERYTHING her lab touched is now in question...meaning a lot of people will probably be getting out of jail or getting a charge expunged from their record. Which is another big reason it upsets me so much to see politicians and bankers and all these public officials either getting a slap on the wrist or no conviction at all (having robbed people for millions and billions of dollars, sexually assaulted children, abusing the system in any and every conceivable way!), and yet they suffer no time in prison; but a guy (probably at the very end of his rope and in desperate need of psychiatric care) who holds up a liquor store gets 10 years. There is no sense of justice in this country. And like I had said before, it basically boils down to how much money any one person has to throw at their legal troubles as to whether or not it actually sticks to them.

But I am also against capital punishment because I don't think it is EVER worth it if even ONE innocent guy winds up dead,,,and I shudder to think of how many already have. There should be some sort of standard of proof; like you have to be 100% sure that the inmate committed the crime before they should even be considered for the death penalty. If there is even 1 tiny shred of doubt as to whether or not this person did it, then it shouldn't happen. But evidence can be fabricated, lies are always told in a criminal investigation, and police work is often sloppy. So even WITH a certain "standard", I wouldn't trust our officials to carry out their job in an objective, fair, and judicious manner.

One poster said they'd prefer if things were like they were in Scandinavia, where the prisons are more like "rehab-hotels" and I very much agree with that sentiment. Prisons do nothing but rob people of their time and keep them in a state of simply being "alive/conscious"; if we ever really want to get to the root of crime, then we need to really assess and help our prison population and address the problems at the very heart of it all, which is more often than not just extreme poverty...when you live far enough below the poverty line, ANY fate seems like a better one than continuing to be that farking poor anymore.
 
2012-10-27 09:12:56 PM  
STOP BREAKING THE LAW ASSHOLE!!!!

/Jim carrey said it, not me
//I just happen to agree
///I raped someone, boohoo
//DIAF
/slash
 
2012-10-27 09:13:11 PM  

seapig: So many people have no idea what it's like to be in utter poverty and willing to do whatever it takes to get the hell out of it,


Whatever it takes.... but finish high school.
 
2012-10-27 09:14:28 PM  
i Just love how all these vigilantes responding here think that just because someone is in jail, they deserve to be there. You guys can't wrap your head around the FACT that prisons get sent the innocent and the abused just as much as the guilty - and "kill them all and let god sort them out" is the type of thing that makes people atheist. You want to torture people because a judge had constitpation one day and didn't feel like listening? When it comes to your turn - and there is very little stopping that - i'll be happy to listen to your attitude then.

but if you can look at these pictures and say "they all deserve it", then there is no doubt you're a racist - and, god willing, your time is numbered. Racism can't stand in the face of truth for very long, it shrivels like mold in sunlight. Have fun shriveling you bastard spawn.
 
2012-10-27 09:16:01 PM  

Psycat: Pray 4 Mojo: That's racist.

I know you're being snarky, but let me play Devil's Advocate anyways. Maybe it's not the skin pigmentation that makes the guy scary; maybe it's the serious muscles, the angry look on the prisoner's face, and even the inside-out shirt with the sleeves ripped off usually indicates somebody with a bad attitude. And maybe he's in prison in the first place for smashing in some honky's skull...


Maybe it's because he might send his brother Eddie after us to bore us to death...
 
2012-10-27 09:17:00 PM  

Psycat: Pray 4 Mojo: That's racist.

I know you're being snarky, but let me play Devil's Advocate anyways. Maybe it's not the skin pigmentation that makes the guy scary; maybe it's the serious muscles, the angry look on the prisoner's face, and even the inside-out shirt with the sleeves ripped off usually indicates somebody with a bad attitude. And maybe he's in prison in the first place for smashing in some honky's skull...


Actually... I don't care what color he is... it's the hat that freaks me out.

24.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-10-27 09:19:36 PM  

LookForTheArrow: i Just love how all these vigilantes responding here think that just because someone is in jail, they deserve to be there. You guys can't wrap your head around the FACT that prisons get sent the innocent and the abused just as much as the guilty - and "kill them all and let god sort them out" is the type of thing that makes people atheist. You want to torture people because a judge had constitpation one day and didn't feel like listening? When it comes to your turn - and there is very little stopping that - i'll be happy to listen to your attitude then.

but if you can look at these pictures and say "they all deserve it", then there is no doubt you're a racist - and, god willing, your time is numbered. Racism can't stand in the face of truth for very long, it shrivels like mold in sunlight. Have fun shriveling you bastard spawn.


A look, someone who's never actually been to a prison. You keep thinking that.

/it's actually possible to go to prisons and not be one of the incarcerated
//lots and lots of white people there
 
2012-10-27 09:23:57 PM  

LookForTheArrow: prisons get sent the innocent and the abused just as much as the guilty


So... you're saying the ratio of guilty convicts to innocent convicts is 1 to 1. Did you survey the convicts to collect that data?

Pro tip: Inane hyperbole obfuscates any salient point you intended to make.

/I know big words
 
2012-10-27 09:25:12 PM  

seapig: Low level dealers, yes. And these cops actually say "oh these are BAD guys"...no they're not. Most of the guys I've ever known who have moved some drugs to supplement their work income were nice, normal guys; guys with kids, who weren't violent, crazy, Scarface-like kingpins out in the street seeking blood for justice! It's so stupid to simplify it to "oh well if you can't do the time, don't do the crime!"...it's not that easy! So many people have no idea what it's like to be in utter poverty and willing to do whatever it takes to get the hell out of it, even if it means taking a little risk to make more money than you can doing literally ANYTHING else. And those are just the guys on the bottom, being happy with THEIR little take from the score. Like you said, think of how much the guys on the top are getting.


Agreed. It's always the guy trying to make his rent payment, or the Ecuadoran woman who serves as a drug mule to escape grinding poverty.

As for the police and judges being held to a higher standard, yes, I agree entirely. Their word is taken at face value in court proceedings, they hold people's lives and futures in their hand and if they decide to use that power unjustly, and get caught, then they deserve to have the book thrown at them. Look at that woman in MA, who was messing up all the drug samples and now pretty much EVERYTHING her lab touched is now in question...

...it basically boils down to how much money any one person has to throw at their legal troubles as to whether or not it actually sticks to them.


There's the unofficial version of the Golden Rule--those who have the gold make the rules. It's funny how a Nazi windbag like Rush can shop around for tons and tons of powerful prescription narcotics and not get arrested--while living in a state that gives out year-long sentences for pot possession. Law-and-order states like Florida remind me a lot of places like Dubai and Saudi Arabia where billionaire oil sheiks can literally enslave people (and maybe do a little heroin on the side), but they'll execute somebody for converting to a different religion.

One poster said they'd prefer if things were like they were in Scandinavia, where the prisons are more like "rehab-hotels" and I very much agree with that sentiment. Prisons do nothing but rob people of their time and keep them in a state of simply being "alive/conscious"; if we ever really want to get to the root of crime, then we need to really assess and help our prison population and address the problems at the very heart of it all, which is more often than not just extreme poverty...when you live far enough below the poverty line, ANY fate seems like a better one than continuing to be that farking poor anymore.

I'd lean towards the Scandinavian system myself, but perhaps with a few less frills. Basically, the prisons would be safe because violent prisoners would be removed from the GP. However, if the prisoners want luxuries like cable TV or cigarettes, they'd have to be on good behavior and actually work every day like people outside of prison.

Ultimately, I think that most crime comes from farked-up people giving birth to more farked-up people. Admittedly, a few criminals come from decent households, but I'd guess that the majority of really dangerous people come from homes with an alcoholic, physically-abusive father or a brutally authoritarian religious-nut mother or some other unholy combination of farked-upedness. As for the poverty aspect, if a person can't afford to feed themselves, they should probably try to avoid having children--even cold-turkey celibacy should be preferable to raising starving kids.

Unfortunately, the most screwed-up among us seem to be the ones who are least likely to take responsibility for birth control. I'm a strong civil libertarian but if there was one thing I'd get authoritarian about if I were King of the World, it would the the forced sterilization of maladjusted shiatheads who brutally abuse or neglect the kids they already have...
 
2012-10-27 09:30:04 PM  

Psycat: There's the unofficial version of the Golden Rule--those who have the gold make the rules.


Wait... just a second. This is not the "Official" Golden Rule? Serious question... WTF is the official one then? I'm guessing it's something like "Love your neighbor" or "Just be nice"... but i swear... I thought your 'unofficial' golden rule is The Golden Rule.

Maybe it's the Catholic schooling... they have a bit of a different view of the world.
 
2012-10-27 09:30:21 PM  

Onkel Buck: The thought of having to spend the next 15 years dealing with someone like this on a daily basis quickly ended any criminial aspirarations I had.
[i79.photobucket.com image 280x210]


Haha. Yes.

Though personally, I was always much more afraid of THIS guy:

i101.photobucket.com

i101.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-27 09:35:58 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: I've been held up at gun point when I was working the cash register (violent crime), and if they caught the guy I think he should have done some time. I was a little shaken up but I recovered in a few hours. Some people steal the life savings of people who are 70 and will never be able to recover 50+ years of hard work. Non-violent but I think deserve 10x the sentence of a robber, both for the intent and the callousness of the crime.


Ideally you'd want juries or even judges making that distinction on sentences so that all factors are weighed and a judgement is made on the penalty. But three strikes laws have taken the "judgement" out of the legal system.
 
2012-10-27 09:38:12 PM  

Psycat: I'm a strong civil libertarian but if there was one thing I'd get authoritarian about if I were King of the World, it would the the forced sterilization of maladjusted shiatheads who brutally abuse or neglect the kids they already have...


FYI... you've been favorited...

I was gonna sponsor you a month... but then I read your profile.
 
2012-10-27 09:40:12 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Psycat: There's the unofficial version of the Golden Rule--those who have the gold make the rules.

Wait... just a second. This is not the "Official" Golden Rule? Serious question... WTF is the official one then? I'm guessing it's something like "Love your neighbor" or "Just be nice"... but i swear... I thought your 'unofficial' golden rule is The Golden Rule.

Maybe it's the Catholic schooling... they have a bit of a different view of the world.


The 'official' Golden Rule is basically "Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you" as taught be Jesus and many other moral teachers. I'm surprised you didn't learn this in Catholic school as it was something I learned about in Sunday school in my own Catholic upbringing.

As far as morality goes, I think that all true morals come from the Golden Rule. What sucks about organized religion is they also lay on a burden of what I call "social engineering rules" that try to micromanage peoples' existences--rules governing diet (e.g. don't eat meat on Friday, shellfish is sinful), sabbath and other holy days, what intoxicants you're allowed to take, and even whether or not you can wear mixed fabrics (yes, it's forbidden in the OT).

AFAIC, as long as you try to follow the Golden Rule, you're otherwise morally free to do whatever you want as long as it doesn't bother others and isn't going to attract police...
 
2012-10-27 09:45:46 PM  

Frederick: . But three strikes laws have taken the "judgement" out of the legal system


See also, mandatory minimum sentences.
 
2012-10-27 09:45:51 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: FYI... you've been favorited...


Thanks, Mojo!

I was gonna sponsor you a month... but then I read your profile.

I have a love/hate relationship with Fark. Sometimes, like today, I can get into interesting conversations with intelligent people. Other times, it's basically a circle-jerk of trolls who are trying to out-annoy each other. It also rankles me that none of my awesome links ever gets approved by the mod...
 
2012-10-27 09:50:38 PM  

WhyteRaven74: See also, mandatory minimum sentences.


Why is it that we have mandatory minimums for growing pot plants, but not for murder?

Hint: If you think that the Diet Pepsi candidate is any closer to legalizing pot than the Diet Coke candidate, you've fallen for the Good Cop/Bad Cop routine played by both branches of the Corporate Sell-Out Party...
 
2012-10-27 09:51:53 PM  

Psycat: The 'official' Golden Rule is basically "Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you" as taught be Jesus and many other moral teachers. I'm surprised you didn't learn this in Catholic school as it was something I learned about in Sunday school in my own Catholic upbringing.


Got you. I figured it was something like that. They never taught us that as "The Golden Rule"... it was probably too "secular" a term for the schools i went to... and would steal some of Jesus' thunder.

Just another one of the failures amid the myriad of them that was my Catholic schooling.
 
2012-10-27 09:52:45 PM  
The more miserable you try to make prison, the more certain you can be it'll end up having people going in out. Increasing sentences for crimes in lieu of any substantive need, is not justice, it's not getting tough on crime, it's pure vengeance born of insecurity and fear and a need to feel better than someone. At the end of the day if you're not willing to protect those in prison, whether it be from poor living conditions, violence, rape and other things, then you have no real authority to clamor for holding them. Also you can't have things heavily slanted towards that which will most impact the poor and minorities. Stealing a car can't carry a more severe sentence than pilfering a million dollars from a company's coffers, it most certainly can't carry a worse sentence than abusing trust and scamming people for millions of dollars. Even stealing a whole bunch of cars ought not carry a worse sentence. Also throwing people into prison for nothing more than being drug addicts, doesn't work either.
 
2012-10-27 09:53:49 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Just another one of the failures amid the myriad of them that was my Catholic schooling.


I went to Catholic school and we learned what the golden rule was, hell we learned it was one of the things that Jesus taught.
 
2012-10-27 09:56:53 PM  

Onkel Buck: The thought of having to spend the next 15 years dealing with someone like this on a daily basis quickly ended any criminial aspirarations I had.
[i79.photobucket.com image 280x210]


One of the things that makes people criminals is the ability to believe that they will never get caught. You may have seriously considered some criminal act, then been put off by thinking of the consequences. But for the most part, that sort of thinking comes from people who are at very little risk of committing a serious crime to begin with. How many people reading this thread would rob a bank if they knew they could get away with it? The majority of us don't commit crime because of our internal values, rather than fear of the consequences. It isn't fear of legal consequences that keeps me from raping women - it's because I know it would be a wrong and terrible thing to do from the core of my being. So admit to yourself that you don't really understand how criminals think. Saying X, Y, or Z punishment would reduce or eliminate crime, because such a penalty would keep you on the straight and narrow, is of little use, since just about everyone who speculates that way already doesn't commit any crimes more serious than speeding, or smoking a joint.
 
2012-10-27 09:56:58 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Just another one of the failures amid the myriad of them that was my Catholic schooling.


I'm a recovering Catholic myself...
 
2012-10-27 10:00:18 PM  

WhyteRaven74: mandatory minimum sentences


That phrase always make me think of this guy...

"Mandatory! Minimum! Sentences!"

/"I buy my crack, my smack, my biatch right here in Hollywood,"
 
2012-10-27 10:02:56 PM  

Frederick: Ideally you'd want juries or even judges making that distinction on sentences so that all factors are weighed and a judgement is made on the penalty.


We tried that, what do you think we did before 3 strikes? Obviously people weren't happy with the results. Career criminals with long, violent arrest records kept getting out and then Polly Klaas.
 
2012-10-27 10:05:45 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: Obviously people weren't happy with the results.


Whether or not people are happy is immaterial to the purposes of a functioning justice system.
 
2012-10-27 10:06:18 PM  

Psycat: Pray 4 Mojo: FYI... you've been favorited...

Thanks, Mojo!

I was gonna sponsor you a month... but then I read your profile.

I have a love/hate relationship with Fark. Sometimes, like today, I can get into interesting conversations with intelligent people. Other times, it's basically a circle-jerk of trolls who are trying to out-annoy each other. It also rankles me that none of my awesome links ever gets approved by the mod...


Understand completely.
 
2012-10-27 10:11:33 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: Frederick: Ideally you'd want juries or even judges making that distinction on sentences so that all factors are weighed and a judgement is made on the penalty.

We tried that, what do you think we did before 3 strikes? Obviously people weren't happy with the results. Career criminals with long, violent arrest records kept getting out and then Polly Klaas.


And those things (Polly Klaas) never happened again.
 
2012-10-27 10:12:55 PM  
'Nother question: what will become of the privatized prison industry, hell, the entire prison-industrial complex in America in the years to come? The Land of the Free already has the highest percentage of people in prison, in both absolute numbers and percentages, so where do we go from here?

Does the prison-industrial complex just keep growing indefinitely? We already have something like 1 in 4 black guys in prison--do we keep going until all black and Hispanic males are in prison? Then will it stop? Or will they then start putting white people in prison wholesale for pot possession or missing a child-support payment? Or will the Beast continue until 95% of America is in prison and the other 5% are working as guards?

Or will our salvation come at the state level? Over a dozen states have legal medical marijuana and states like Colorado are close to outright legalization. Once pot is legalized, it will be easier to legalize the others and then the whole black market in drugs will collapse.

Or will it end because the government is financially bankrupt (instead of just morally bankrupt)? We might get so far into debt that we simply cannot afford the prison-industrial complex. It probably won't end when We the People take back our government because too many Homer Simpsons out there are too damned complacent and there's too many idiots who keep voting for the same corporate types who oppress them.

One thing is certain: by creating the privatized prison industry and giving greedy bastards a financial motive for locking up as many people as possible, we've come up with a very good method of turning America into a police state. Even more of a fatal blow to American democracy than the creation of the Federal Reserve Bank in 1913...
 
2012-10-27 10:15:40 PM  

Repo Man: The majority of us don't commit crime because of our internal values, rather than fear of the consequences.


I'm not disagreeing with the sentiment of your entire post... but I don't think this is true. My internal values tell me to treat others as I'd like to be treated (The REAL Golden Rule apparently). However... I'm not in the drug business solely due to the fear of getting caught. And this isn't some hypothetical case... I run in circles where there is lots of opportunity.

My own question to you would be... How many people would drive from San Diego to Chicago with 100 pounds of pot in their car for $2,500? Most wouldn't do it... and most of those that wouldn't do it don't have some grand moral objection... it's the fear of getting caught.
 
2012-10-27 10:19:55 PM  
Just setup a data center and put all the ones who can read into cubes and let them do tech support.

"Yo. This is the Slicer.. How cans I helps youz with yerz iphonerz."
 
2012-10-27 10:21:34 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Whether or not people are happy is immaterial to the purposes of a functioning justice system.


The people elect the government, the government makes the laws, isn't that the way it is supposed to work? And in the case of 3 strikes in CA wasn't that approved by the voters?

If the people don't make the laws who should?
 
2012-10-27 10:23:53 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Pray 4 Mojo: Just another one of the failures amid the myriad of them that was my Catholic schooling.

I went to Catholic school and we learned what the golden rule was, hell we learned it was one of the things that Jesus taught.


I'm pretty sure that if Jesus were quoted as saying, "... and this shall be my Golden Rule."... I woulda learned it. That he didn't... is the reason why I didn't... I'm pretty sure.
 
2012-10-27 10:23:55 PM  

Frederick: And those things (Polly Klaas) never happened again.


Is that a question?
 
2012-10-27 10:25:00 PM  

Psycat: One thing is certain: by creating the privatized prison industry and giving greedy bastards a financial motive for locking up as many people as possible, we've come up with a very good method of turning America into a police state. Even more of a fatal blow to American democracy than the creation of the Federal Reserve Bank in 1913...


Favorited -in cool blue #5.
 
2012-10-27 10:25:32 PM  
In my community, some bastard was accused of murdering a small girl. I knew the family--they had a reputation for being a bunch of hoodlums--and the accused murderer seemed exactly like the kind of flaky creep who would molest and kill a child. Her bloody clothes were found in his locker and he supposedly bragged to cellmates that he did a very good job of hiding the body. At the trial, it came out that he was friends with the girl's parents and did hard drugs with them regularly. It also came out that when he'd get drunk at his friends' house, they'd let him sleep it off in the same bed as the little girl.

Unfortunately, Minnesota law at the time made it almost impossible to get a murder conviction if there's no body. In other words, you could get away with murder as long as you did a good job of disposing the body. And he did get a not-guilty verdict. What was worse was that his defense attorney was a slimeball who regularly got violent criminals off the hook by dirty Kunstleresque tactics. I didn't think much of the county prosecutor either--just another drug-war tool more interested in busting potheads than in prosecuting murderers.

This evil bastard did move out of state for a while, but he's now back in the community. Worse, he has children of his own--and a stalker-ready van at his disposal. I'm almost disappointed that some vigilante hasn't killed him yet, and I'm very disappointed that they never re-opened the case once better DNA analysis became available (it's not double jeopardy if there's new evidence).

The fact that this satanic motherfarker is running around the community while many people are serving decades-long sentences for growing a few pot plants is what gets my bile up about the legal system in this farked-up country...
 
2012-10-27 10:28:20 PM  

Frederick: Favorited -in cool blue #5.


Thanks, Frederick!
 
2012-10-27 10:29:09 PM  
Now that's what I call living the High Life!
 
2012-10-27 10:31:17 PM  

Frederick: Favorited -in cool blue #5.


Somebody has a fan club.
 
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