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(Daily Mail)   Out Of Sight, Out Of Mind: Uncompromising pictures from inside America's overcrowded prison system show the cramped lives lived by more than two million inmates   ( dailymail.co.uk) divider line
    More: Misc, u.s. prisons, federal prisons, state prisons, public space, prisons  
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19289 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Oct 2012 at 12:49 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



460 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2012-10-27 08:20:09 AM  
Looks about the same as my barracks in basic training, except they have more freedoms apparently. Do they deserve better than soldiers in basic training / boot camp?

/not subby
 
2012-10-27 08:21:06 AM  

me texan: Do they deserve better than soldiers in basic training / boot camp?


This reeks of "Waterboarding isn't torture because SEALS are waterboarded as part of their training."
 
2012-10-27 08:33:01 AM  
I truly don't farking care. Don't like it? Don't be a crim.
 
2012-10-27 08:43:15 AM  

PC LOAD LETTER: I truly don't farking care. Don't like it? Don't be a crim.


www.weirdotoys.com
 
2012-10-27 08:59:39 AM  
Clearly the only solution is to double down on the war on drugs.
 
2012-10-27 09:06:49 AM  

kronicfeld: me texan: Do they deserve better than soldiers in basic training / boot camp?

This reeks of "Waterboarding isn't torture because SEALS are waterboarded as part of their training."


The article, as was my point is about living conditions. Nice job obfuscating the point by essentially Godwinning the discussion.

Their living conditions appear to be on par with NORMAL military life for soldiers in basic training and I have no problem with that. 

/Lighten up, Francis
 
2012-10-27 09:40:28 AM  
Those rows and rows of bunk beds look pretty powder-keggy to me.
 
2012-10-27 09:48:57 AM  

me texan: Looks about the same as my barracks in basic training, except they have more freedoms apparently. Do they deserve better than soldiers in basic training / boot camp?

/not subby


Basic training lasts 6-8 weeks? It's designed to instill discipline and whip new recruits to the military into shape and there's little fear that the person in the next bunk is going to rape, stab or just plain beat the shiat out of you for whatever reason or even no reason.

And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.

It would be interesting to get the perspective of people who had both been through boot camp and a prison like this. I've not been to either one, but if you gave me a choice of a prison as pictured or boot camp, I think I'd take boot camp.
 
NFA
2012-10-27 09:53:08 AM  
Seeing at all those tattooed gang members who are likely there because they're too violent to be on the streets, DID NOT elicit ANY compassion from me.

In fact my thought is that we need to streamline executions for all known violent gang members. Simply belonging to a violent gang should warrant the death penalty. These groups exist to protect their members when they sell drugs, steal, rob, burglarize, rape, murder, kidnap, hold and sell sex slaves. I say we as a nation stop being a bunch of pussies and begin to systematically wipe out this growing criminal paradigm. If you don't think it's a growing problem in the US, go live in Juarez Mexico and see what our future holds.
 
2012-10-27 09:57:07 AM  

Happy Hours: And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.


Last I checked, so is the decision to rob, stab and kill people.
 
2012-10-27 10:15:42 AM  

me texan: Happy Hours: And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.

Last I checked, so is the decision to rob, stab and kill people.


Exactly, fark em.
 
2012-10-27 10:25:31 AM  
Ugh.

This reminds me of a moment from last weekend when a few of us women from church were talking to another member (who is an emigrant from Kenya). She was describing the prison conditions, which were appalling, and then a dyed-in-the-wool Republican spoke up and said "Is that a deterrent?"

The poor woman had to fumble to explain to this slightly hard-of-hearing soul that the law enforcement office is corrupt through and through, which I eventually summarized for her as "There's not much connection between who's actually guilty and who goes to jail."
 
2012-10-27 10:47:26 AM  

Happy Hours: And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.


me texan: Last I checked, so is the decision to rob, stab and kill people.


Aaaaaand we're done here.
 
2012-10-27 10:51:53 AM  

me texan: Happy Hours: And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.

Last I checked, so is the decision to rob, stab and kill people.


Lol, that's funny how you think most people are in jail for violent crimes.
 
2012-10-27 10:55:45 AM  
USA: All the justice you can afford.
 
2012-10-27 10:57:19 AM  

Happy Hours: It would be interesting to get the perspective of people who had both been through boot camp and a prison like this. I've not been to either one, but if you gave me a choice of a prison as pictured or boot camp, I think I'd take boot camp.


On that Lockdown show, when they did Sheriff Joe's prison, I vaguely remember that one of the inmates they interviewed from Tent City had served in Iraq. I believe he said it was tremendously worse in prison.
 
2012-10-27 11:07:12 AM  
Ah, I see the 'criminals are subhuman' crowd is already here.
 
2012-10-27 11:09:23 AM  
That's exactly what the tanks looked like in Harris County. I was in medical which was a tank that had 8 bunks per cell and there was 7 cells. And there was usually 4 extra people on the floor in the cells, not to mention all the people in the day room and near the showers. At one point, it was so bad you couldn't walk to the tables without stepping over someone. People were signing for their time as fast as they could just so they could get transferred to state or TDCJ. It was just a tightly packed warehouse.

Once I got moved to the trustee tank, things drastically improved. Lots more room and a few perks, plus we got to work outside mowing the grass all over Houston. I'm willing to bet a lot of those pictures were Gen Pop, probably 2 years or less. When I got moved to TDCJ, got a job at the library as soon as possible just so I wouldn't be in that mess. It was just a big warehouse type room but we had a little personal area around our beds separated with 3 foot high metal walls but it was a luxury in there.

I can't tell you what can be done about it except decriminalizing a lot of drugs or at least lowering the punishment. Most of the people in there don't mind at all that they're locked up. Especially if they're a somebody in there. I saw so many people get let out and be right back within a few months. And talking to a lot of inmates, they either think it's just great that they don't have to worry about bills or food and the ones that want to try to fly right go back to the same situation that got them there to begin with. When I was let out, I cut off all contact with old friends and moved. It was extremely hard but I did it, and that was 3 years ago. Halfway houses help a little but getting back into society after doing that is a lot harder than people think. It's a whole different world in there but I'm sure people that have served in the military know what I'm talking about, since I was locked up with a lot of military guys who told me it was about the same except the military had more things for them to do. It's a really complicated situation that is going to take a fix on multiple levels. Guess we should look at how Europe and Japan do things, much like they did us in the 1900's.
 
2012-10-27 11:17:16 AM  
And I'm supposed to care, why exactly
 
2012-10-27 11:17:53 AM  

2wolves: USA: All the justice you can afford.


yep, just like every country anywhere ever. Don't like it? make money.
 
2012-10-27 11:19:55 AM  

alwaysjaded: Halfway houses help a little but getting back into society after doing that is a lot harder than people think.


I cant begin to imagine how hard it is to get back into society. That being said, it sounds like you're moving in the right direction and I applaud you for it.

/agree with your points about decriminalization. War on Drugs has been a waste of time and money.
 
2012-10-27 11:20:31 AM  

Generation_D: And I'm supposed to care, why exactly


How can prison rehabilitate in conditions like that? You do realize that's what prison sentences are supposed to do, right?
 
2012-10-27 11:20:50 AM  
where's the photo gallery of the lives of their victims?

/it'll be nice when Romney takes office and our tax dollars will start supporting those who are working to enhance and better their lives.
 
2012-10-27 11:22:11 AM  

alwaysjaded: That's exactly what the tanks looked like in Harris County. I was in medical which was a tank that had 8 bunks per cell and there was 7 cells. And there was usually 4 extra people on the floor in the cells, not to mention all the people in the day room and near the showers. At one point, it was so bad you couldn't walk to the tables without stepping over someone. People were signing for their time as fast as they could just so they could get transferred to state or TDCJ. It was just a tightly packed warehouse.

Once I got moved to the trustee tank, things drastically improved. Lots more room and a few perks, plus we got to work outside mowing the grass all over Houston. I'm willing to bet a lot of those pictures were Gen Pop, probably 2 years or less. When I got moved to TDCJ, got a job at the library as soon as possible just so I wouldn't be in that mess. It was just a big warehouse type room but we had a little personal area around our beds separated with 3 foot high metal walls but it was a luxury in there.

I can't tell you what can be done about it except decriminalizing a lot of drugs or at least lowering the punishment. Most of the people in there don't mind at all that they're locked up. Especially if they're a somebody in there. I saw so many people get let out and be right back within a few months. And talking to a lot of inmates, they either think it's just great that they don't have to worry about bills or food and the ones that want to try to fly right go back to the same situation that got them there to begin with. When I was let out, I cut off all contact with old friends and moved. It was extremely hard but I did it, and that was 3 years ago. Halfway houses help a little but getting back into society after doing that is a lot harder than people think. It's a whole different world in there but I'm sure people that have served in the military know what I'm talking about, since I was locked up with a lot of military guys who told me it was about the sam ...


Or, we can keep being America and doing things our own way. You can't vote any more, so you can't help change the system you know so much about. On the other hand, more than half of the population where you're from elects Republicans fairly often, and all they're interested in is making sure the prison population is kept high enough so their investments in prison contractors keep making money.

Til the voting public changes that, you're pretty much out of luck on "reform."

I doubt America will look anywhere for help, look at how we did TSA. Europe already had working systems, yet we went out and invented our own, which wound up being worse and less secure.

And got Chertoff paid, since his company owned the scanner contract for airports.

Crony Capitalism. When voting just isn't enough.

Also: Don't get arrested using drugs. Tough thing for some people. Society makes rules, and they're so unfair sometimes.
 
2012-10-27 11:23:54 AM  

i963.photobucket.com

 
2012-10-27 11:24:43 AM  

calbert: where's the photo gallery of the lives of their victims?

/it'll be nice when Romney takes office and our tax dollars will start supporting those who are working to enhance and better their lives.


Wouldn't hold your breath on the Romney thing there, tea bagger.

Nice concern on the victims though.
 
2012-10-27 11:34:10 AM  

me texan:

I cant begin to imagine how hard it is to get back into society. That being said, it sounds like you're moving in the right direction and I applaud you for it.

/agree with your points about decriminalization. War on Drugs has been a waste of time and money.


Thanks. I had one thing going for me. My lawyer worked out a deal where I would do my time but wouldn't have a felony on my record. You got a felony on your record, game over. Can't do much of anything with one. When the lawyer was telling me about the offer, it was 4 months county or a year and 6 months of TDCJ plus shock probation which was 3 years of court every Monday, P.O. every Wednesday and groups 5 days a week and random drug tests 6 out of 7 days of the week. Everyone in the holding tank heard the deal and were all screaming at me to take the county time. I was about to sign and stopped and asked them all how bad had a felony on their record messed their lives up. Every single one of them said they were ruined. I signed for TDCJ. It was ABSOLUTE HELL staying in compliance but I did it.

Another point I wanted to add, there's another problem. Your court appointed lawyer is usually some guy fresh out of law school who has 8 other cases to work on just for that day. Throw in you've been living like cattle and a lawyer who just wants to close your file tells you to sign for probation and you get out that day. I saw a whole lot of people doing that who were destined to fail cause they were planning on getting high 30 minutes after being released.
 
2012-10-27 11:35:50 AM  
One thing nobody here has asked is why we incarcerate so many more people than any other nation in the world.

Are people in the US that much more likely to be criminals?

Does every other country not punish crime that should be punished?

Anyone?
 
2012-10-27 11:38:47 AM  
And meanwhile I'm listening to Victor Conte (Barry Bonds/Steroids) talk about the prison he was in. It was basically an athletic club. Everyone was playing tennis, basketball, even billiards. There were ZERO fences. For Christmas, inmates would walk out to the highway and their family would pick them up. Drugs were for sale. The female corrections officers made $30,000 a month as prostitutes.
 
2012-10-27 11:39:02 AM  

Generation_D: : Or, we can keep being America and doing things our own way. You can't vote any more, so you can't help change the system you know so much about. On the other hand, more than half of the population where you're from elects Republicans fairly often, and all they're interested in is making sure the prison population is kept high enough so their investments in prison contractors keep making money.

Til the voting public changes that, you're pretty much out of luck on "reform."

I doubt America will look anywhere for help, look at how we did TSA. Europe already had working systems, yet we went out and invented our own, which wound up being worse and less secure.

And got Chertoff paid, since his company owned the scanner contract for airports.

Crony Capitalism. When voting just isn't enough.

Also: Don't get arrested using drugs. Tough thing for some people. Society makes rules, and they're so unfair sometimes.

I don't disagree with none of that. If the cities could combat the vast areas of small towns who vote for idiots, we would be better off. Our elections are usually pretty close. And yes, I've had zero interactions with cops since I stopped breaking the law. It was a hard lesson but I fought the law and the law won. Never again.

 
2012-10-27 11:45:09 AM  
alwaysjaded

Consult Europe and Japan? But... but... that would involve acknowledging that America is not the greatest at everything we do!

/glad to hear you're doing better
 
2012-10-27 12:10:16 PM  
you mean it's not like it is on TV?

img2-3.timeinc.net
 
2012-10-27 12:11:51 PM  

coco ebert: alwaysjaded

Consult Europe and Japan? But... but... that would involve acknowledging that America is not the greatest at everything we do!

/glad to hear you're doing better


I sinerely believe that America will correct itself once there's a changing of the guard in our leadership. We're still a very young country compared to the rest of the world and we're going to have some growing pains. I always get amused by how our friends across the pond are so quick to tell us why we suck. Yea, like the countries over there never had any dark times. They've had longer to deal with them. Of course, we should learn from our elders but this country needs to stop thinking in the past. I swear these days, America is like a washed up ex-supermodel.

/ and thank you for the kind words.
 
2012-10-27 12:12:03 PM  

Generation_D: Also: Don't get arrested using drugs. Tough thing for some people. Society makes rules, and they're so unfair sometimes.


And I'm going to ask again: how does our current prison system reform? Our prison system doesn't work, and I know that by one simple fact: the single greatest predictor of crime is past incarceration. If you go to prison you are more likely to commit a crime than you were before.

How is that good?
 
2012-10-27 12:14:38 PM  

me texan: alwaysjaded: Halfway houses help a little but getting back into society after doing that is a lot harder than people think.

I cant begin to imagine how hard it is to get back into society. That being said, it sounds like you're moving in the right direction and I applaud you for it.

/agree with your points about decriminalization. War on Drugs has been a waste of time and money.


Au contraire. Its made the following categories quite a lot of money:

1) Police departments -- foreiture and siezure laws
2) Trial lawyers -- getting rich boys and girls out of jail
3) Prison industry -- Go to keep supply of prisoners up, got to build more private prisons. America fark yeah.
4) Medical industry -- make sure the more fun illegal drugs can't compete on a level playing field with the crappy modern drugs.
5) Security industry -- all those neat cop toys used to go after drug dealers -- drones, house sensors, flyovers in pot growing country, weapons and armored cars
6) Government. The DEA and its ever expanding mission and head count
7) Government 2 -- idiot politicians running on law and order platforms, promising to clean up crime which usually means go after people using drugs, or people selling drugs that wear colorful clothing and frighten people
8) The drug sellers themselves. If you don't die, you make bank, at least the ones do that run the organizations. These drug orgs pay bribes to cops and law enforcement. It is a fact.
9) Gun lobby / weapons industry: With drug crime, or the fear of it, rampant, got to make sure there's lots of gun sales all around, to worried homeowners, to conceal and carry vigilante dumbfarks like Zimmerman, to all the drug sellers themselves. Guns and ammo profits.
10) Alcohol industry. No legal competition from Pot or other low-risk drug taking.
11) Trial lawyers II: drunk driving edition. If all those drunk drivers were smoking weed instead, they would be home eating cheetos rather than out wrapping their car around a tree, being aggressive, and making stupid choices when drunk.
12) Sports industry. Do you honestly think a lot of pot smokers would give a crap about professional sports like drinkers do?
13) Gambling industry. Without drunks, who's gonna bet and lose millions a year?
14) Government III: Black ops / Black budget / CIA funding for drug ops. Billions have been sent down this rat hole. "Propping up the governments of Columbia and Peru."


So you see, illegal drugs are tightly woven into America's societal fabric. Just making them legal will never happen, at least not over night. Its been 40 years since quite a few of us have been saying the "War on Drugs" or what came before it were idiotic, wrongheaded, corrupt policies.

And yet...
 
2012-10-27 12:14:59 PM  

alwaysjaded: coco ebert: alwaysjaded

Consult Europe and Japan? But... but... that would involve acknowledging that America is not the greatest at everything we do!

/glad to hear you're doing better

I sinerely believe that America will correct itself once there's a changing of the guard in our leadership. We're still a very young country compared to the rest of the world and we're going to have some growing pains. I always get amused by how our friends across the pond are so quick to tell us why we suck. Yea, like the countries over there never had any dark times. They've had longer to deal with them. Of course, we should learn from our elders but this country needs to stop thinking in the past. I swear these days, America is like a washed up ex-supermodel.

/ and thank you for the kind words.


Well, you're kind of assuming that every country goes through similar phases towards a pinnacle of development, but that's not really true. Every society has its own trajectory. There's no guarantee that the U.S. will keep increasing its wealth and power simply because we're young.
 
2012-10-27 12:16:21 PM  

Generation_D: 2wolves: USA: All the justice you can afford.

yep, just like every country anywhere ever. Don't like it? make money.


You can't create a civil society through incarceration.
 
2012-10-27 12:24:01 PM  
Oh, left out:

15) Medical industry II: All the phony rehab crap, from psychology to 12 steps to addiction studies. With drugs legal, there would be no court-mandated rehab.
16) Medical industry III: If users can get their hands on clean and well made drugs of choice, they quit OD'ing on crap. So less risk to the user, and less chance of an accidental death due to a dosage being wildly off.


I'm sure there's more. Point is, you can't just legalize drugs. Washington State is going to try, we're voting on Marijuana legalization with many strings attached and in many ways a crappy law. And it had to be a crappy law with strings attached or law enforcement would have never signed off on it. So you see whats happening here, rather than the "common sense" legalization argument, we're having to do things in stages, that takes years if not decades. Its already been decades. A whole bunch of us wanted legalization as far back as the 70s. Then what happened, Ronald farking Reagan happened, and funding drug wars in central and south america. Set the drug lords up great, kept the cheap cocaine flowing north, Miami Vice was a top 10 hit show. Oh yeah -

17) Entertainment industry. Who will be the villain in all those great movies if you get rid of drug cartels because drugs are now legal?? Don't think Hollywood isn't aware of where they make their money. Ready made story trope: Drug dealer / gang.
 
2012-10-27 12:25:49 PM  

2wolves: Generation_D: 2wolves: USA: All the justice you can afford.

yep, just like every country anywhere ever. Don't like it? make money.

You can't create a civil society through incarceration.


Who said anything about creating a civil society? Drug users are already the ones that effed up badly enough to either kill someone over a drug deal, or get caught using because they couldn't control their own habit or use properly without getting caught or attracting attention to themselves.

I get it, you want to use, thats fine man, go ahead I have no problem with it.

But the rules say you are supremely effed if you use and get caught. So what do you do? Give in to poor impulse control, or learn to fit your vices around the current effed up legal system?

We all make our own choices.
 
2012-10-27 12:27:09 PM  
One last thought on that.

What if everyone just quit using? Not nancy reagan just say no, but eff you current system. Quit buying drugs, quit drinking, quit using medical products you have a say in using.

Send the entire messed up substance seller empire a nice message, the current system in America is effed up badly, so the hell with all of you, we're all going to go straight edge from now on.

Except coffee. Jesus H I'd go to prison before giving up coffee.
 
2012-10-27 12:30:10 PM  

Happy Hours: One thing nobody here has asked is why we incarcerate so many more people than any other nation in the world.

Are people in the US that much more likely to be criminals?


Because there's money to be made in locking people up for any little thing someone can think of.
 
2012-10-27 12:38:27 PM  

coco ebert:

Well, you're kind of assuming that every country goes through similar phases towards a pinnacle of development, but that's not really true. Every society has its own trajectory. There's no guarantee that the U.S. will keep increasing its wealth and power simply because we're young.


I should have been a little bit clearer. I was mainly talking about the moral issues we're facing and the dying out of all the completely off the rails people we're seeing today. I didn't mean wealth and power cause that is always up in the air since no one can predict the future.
 
2012-10-27 12:43:09 PM  

Generation_D: 2wolves: Generation_D: 2wolves: USA: All the justice you can afford.

yep, just like every country anywhere ever. Don't like it? make money.

You can't create a civil society through incarceration.

Who said anything about creating a civil society? Drug users are already the ones that effed up badly enough to either kill someone over a drug deal, or get caught using because they couldn't control their own habit or use properly without getting caught or attracting attention to themselves.

I get it, you want to use, thats fine man, go ahead I have no problem with it.

But the rules say you are supremely effed if you use and get caught. So what do you do? Give in to poor impulse control, or learn to fit your vices around the current effed up legal system?

We all make our own choices.


Not going to lose my clearance.

My point still stands.
 
2012-10-27 12:54:19 PM  
img4-1.coastalliving.timeinc.net

They should nice-up the place like Martha Stewart did.
 
2012-10-27 12:54:54 PM  

aimtastic: Those rows and rows of bunk beds look pretty powder-keggy to me.


Yeah. Now imagine if they were all zombies.
 
2012-10-27 12:56:28 PM  

me texan: Happy Hours: And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.

Last I checked, so is the decision to rob, stab and kill people.


7 out of 10 prisoners(America) are in for non-violent offenses
 
2012-10-27 12:57:40 PM  
What do the jails look like they put people in who can't afford their bills? Debtors prisons are already making a comeback and will lead to more overcrowding.
 
2012-10-27 12:59:56 PM  

Happy Hours: And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.


So's prison.
 
2012-10-27 01:01:05 PM  
Release all the non-violent drug offenders and prostitutes. Kill all the burglars, thieves, murders, rapists, and kid diddlers. Then there will be plenty of room to reform the drunk drivers and tax cheats.
 
2012-10-27 01:02:27 PM  
I see the anti-"War on Drugs" crowd is here. "Waaa, if we just legalize drugs, the prisons would be at 10% capacity".
How about you quit using until that day comes chief? After a month, you may not want to pick up that joint or start sniffing coke up your nose. After they're legalized, you can go back to pretending illicit drugs aren't harmful for you.
 
2012-10-27 01:03:03 PM  
Yeah, I ONLY care about the inmates who are in there for small drug charges; everyone else can eat a bowl of dicks.
 
2012-10-27 01:03:03 PM  
Reminds me of the berthing aboard a navy ship.

www.mbaintheusa.com

I was on the USS Ronald Reagan
 
2012-10-27 01:03:53 PM  
From 1853 to 1972, California had four prisons. Today, they have 33, with plans to build fifteen more. Meanwhile violent crime rates have steadily dropped. Those are the facts. Draw your own conclusions.
 
2012-10-27 01:05:32 PM  
If only there were a way for people to avoid going to an overcrowded prison.
 
2012-10-27 01:05:50 PM  

GAT_00: Ah, I see the 'criminals are subhuman' crowd is already here.


If we were talking about them being subhuman we'd be talking about killing them.

Someone who hurts society has to be pulled out of society.
 
2012-10-27 01:06:09 PM  
Damn. Pauly's gonna have to slice the garlic extra thin.
www.adrowe.com
/there's no room for the lobsters and dago red
 
2012-10-27 01:06:25 PM  

GAT_00: Generation_D: And I'm supposed to care, why exactly

How can prison rehabilitate in conditions like that? You do realize that's what prison sentences are supposed to do, right?


You still think our prison system is for rehabilitation? How cute.
 
2012-10-27 01:07:17 PM  
For the "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time crowd": Do you ever think that maybe there might be a few too many crimes that result in prison time? That the US might jail people for shiat that other countries don't? That the political system is rigged in favour of politicians who can scream "SOFT ON CRIME"!!!!" the loudest? That jailing so many people, and saddling them with permanent criminal records, might have negative social consequences that far exceed the benefits?

Just thinking out loud.
 
2012-10-27 01:07:29 PM  
How many are in there for pot violations? Let's make that the first thing we change.

/don't smoke weed
 
2012-10-27 01:07:44 PM  

PacManDreaming: Happy Hours: One thing nobody here has asked is why we incarcerate so many more people than any other nation in the world.

Are people in the US that much more likely to be criminals?

Because there's money to be made in locking people up for any little thing someone can think of.


If there is so much money to be made why are prisons and jails so overcrowded to the point where you hear about people getting early release because of no room?
 
2012-10-27 01:07:53 PM  
I like how all the do-gooders think being incarcerated will never happen to them.

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
That's what you get.
Illegal is not a race, it's a crime.
You should have thought of that before you broke the law.
If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about.
Plenty of jobs out there, people just don't want to work.
God only helps those who help themselves.
 
2012-10-27 01:08:01 PM  
"The reformative effect of punishment is a belief that dies hard, chiefly I think, because it is so satisfying to our sadistic impulses." - Bertrand Russell, Ideas That Have Harmed Mankind
 
2012-10-27 01:08:29 PM  

ltdanman44: me texan: Happy Hours: And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.

Last I checked, so is the decision to rob, stab and kill people.

7 out of 10 prisoners(America) are in for non-violent offenses


The prison system is warehousing human beings.
 
2012-10-27 01:08:46 PM  

yeegrek: Do you ever think that maybe there might be a few too many crimes that result in prison time?


Just to be safe, I'll just avoid committing *all* the crimes.
 
2012-10-27 01:11:19 PM  

ZodiacMan: Release all the non-violent drug offenders and prostitutes. Kill all the burglars, thieves, murders, rapists, and kid diddlers. Then there will be plenty of room to reform the drunk drivers and tax cheats.


No, you killed them off with the murderers and thieves.
 
2012-10-27 01:11:39 PM  

me texan: Happy Hours: And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.

Last I checked, so is the decision to rob, stab and kill people.


Which are the only reasons that people go to jail.
 
2012-10-27 01:11:41 PM  
Looks like a POW camp for the War on Drugs.
 
2012-10-27 01:11:53 PM  

Happy Hours: One thing nobody here has asked is why we incarcerate so many more people than any other nation in the world.

Are people in the US that much more likely to be criminals?

Does every other country not punish crime that should be punished?

Anyone?


Neither, actually. It turns out that the rate of prison admissions in the US is pretty comparable to the rest of the Western world. The difference is that punishments in the US tend to be much harsher and sentences for the same crimes tend to be much longer than in the rest of the West. We have more inmates not because we send more away, but because we don't let them out when they're in. Too lazy to get you a cite from my phone but it's easy to look it up.
 
2012-10-27 01:12:08 PM  

mechgreg: PacManDreaming: Happy Hours: One thing nobody here has asked is why we incarcerate so many more people than any other nation in the world.

Are people in the US that much more likely to be criminals?

Because there's money to be made in locking people up for any little thing someone can think of.

If there is so much money to be made why are prisons and jails so overcrowded to the point where you hear about people getting early release because of no room?


Why do you think the private prison industry is clamoring to build more (while pushing for stricter sentencing laws under the guise of being "tough on crime")?

Google ALEC and private prisons.
 
2012-10-27 01:12:42 PM  
Real question. Why does California, with its lax drug laws, liberal policies, etc lead in overcrowding?

/please do not take my use of the L word to imply I'm a republican. I'm not.
 
2012-10-27 01:13:18 PM  

Happy Hours: And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.


For now.

That doesn't mean it always was, or always will be. We can still draft, you know.
 
2012-10-27 01:13:29 PM  

Crewmannumber6: How many are in there for pot violations? Let's make that the first thing we change.

/don't smoke weed


In California, marijuana violations make up less than one percent of state incarcerations.
 
2012-10-27 01:14:23 PM  

kronicfeld: me texan: Do they deserve better than soldiers in basic training / boot camp?

This reeks of "Waterboarding isn't torture because SEALS are waterboarded as part of their training."


No it doesn't. Just like those jails that put up tents, good enough for the troops more than good enough for a convicted criminal.So what what if they lack privacy? It is prison not the Four Seasons. They get fed , clothed etc.

Heck they have it better than some service members. Sailors on the Fast Attacks use to have to hot bunk (may still have to) meaning they do not have their own bed . While they were on watch somebody else is using it. If we use this standard we could argue that our prisons are under utilized. If you look at the pictures too many guys just standing around. Why are they not out breaking rocks or making license plates?

We could break the prisoners up in to 3- 8 hour rotating shifts 1 shift sleeping, 1 shift making license plates 1 shift attending classes/recreation (no weights)/showers with meal times squeezed into shifts.. That way the beds would never be empty and you could triple the prison capacity


You sound like one of those who supports the idea of a criminal being able to sue his victims.
 
2012-10-27 01:14:45 PM  

Butthurted: GAT_00: Generation_D: And I'm supposed to care, why exactly

How can prison rehabilitate in conditions like that? You do realize that's what prison sentences are supposed to do, right?

You still think our prison system is for rehabilitation? How cute.


Well, then, make all prison sentences life sentences, or death sentences. Either call yourself willing to pay for people who commit felonies to be walled off from society for the rest of their lives, or call yourself willing to condone state-sponsored murder. And then watch crime rates skyrocket as thieves who would go to prison for the same amount of time as murderers start murdering because they've got nothing to lose.
 
2012-10-27 01:14:46 PM  

Evenbiggerknickers: you mean it's not like it is on TV?


You're gettin' awful mouthy, prag.
 
2012-10-27 01:15:02 PM  
Keep doing what you're doing, and you'll keep getting what you're getting. Psychologists and social scientists who study this sort of thing for a living could have told them that the policies that have been implemented would lead to increased incarceration, increased recidivism, and a massive waste of taxpayer's money. But why bother to listen to poindexter over there, when "common sense" tells people that the answer to crime is "Lock em up and throw away the key"?
 
2012-10-27 01:15:02 PM  

CruJones: Real question. Why does California, with its lax drug laws, liberal policies, etc lead in overcrowding?

/please do not take my use of the L word to imply I'm a republican. I'm not.


You're from Texas, so same thing. And the laws are set to appease the inland empire crowd. If you ignore SF and LA Commifornia turns pretty damn Red.
 
2012-10-27 01:15:20 PM  

GAT_00: Ah, I see the 'criminals are subhuman' crowd is already here.


They're convicted criminals, FFS.


If you're so fond of them, take one in as a pet project after they parole out. You can find needy single inmates (male and female), just looking for someone to shack up with.


Go ahead, you bleeding hearts. Give it a try. Hell, take in your average convicted dealer and let me know how it works out.
 
2012-10-27 01:15:30 PM  
Lucky those pictures aren't scratch-n-sniff.
 
2012-10-27 01:16:33 PM  
"Land of the Free".
 
2012-10-27 01:17:05 PM  

Ed 'Too Tall' Jones: Neither, actually. It turns out that the rate of prison admissions in the US is pretty comparable to the rest of the Western world. The difference is that punishments in the US tend to be much harsher and sentences for the same crimes tend to be much longer than in the rest of the West. We have more inmates not because we send more away, but because we don't let them out when they're in. Too lazy to get you a cite from my phone but it's easy to look it up.


i.dailymail.co.uk

Let me help.
 
2012-10-27 01:17:10 PM  

PC LOAD LETTER: I truly don't farking care. Don't like it? Don't be a crim.


agreed.
 
2012-10-27 01:17:50 PM  

fastfxr: GAT_00: Ah, I see the 'criminals are subhuman' crowd is already here.

They're convicted criminals, FFS.


If you're so fond of them, take one in as a pet project after they parole out. You can find needy single inmates (male and female), just looking for someone to shack up with.


Go ahead, you bleeding hearts. Give it a try. Hell, take in your average convicted dealer and let me know how it works out.


How about you take in the children of people growing up without a parent so they can have a lowered chance of following the same path in life?
 
2012-10-27 01:18:03 PM  
If they hot bunked they'd need far less living space.
 
2012-10-27 01:18:58 PM  

me texan: Looks about the same as my barracks in basic training, except they have more freedoms apparently. Do they deserve better than soldiers in basic training / boot camp?

/not subby


I was gonna say... quarters were tighter than that aboard ship, too.
 
2012-10-27 01:19:24 PM  

NFA: Seeing at all those tattooed gang members who are likely there because they're too violent to be on the streets, DID NOT elicit ANY compassion from me.

In fact my thought is that we need to streamline executions for all known violent gang members. Simply belonging to a violent gang should warrant the death penalty. These groups exist to protect their members when they sell drugs, steal, rob, burglarize, rape, murder, kidnap, hold and sell sex slaves. I say we as a nation stop being a bunch of pussies and begin to systematically wipe out this growing criminal paradigm. If you don't think it's a growing problem in the US, go live in Juarez Mexico and see what our future holds.


Who defines what a violent gang is? How do you positively identify their members? What are the standards to identify these people that will insure you are murdering the correct tattooed gang members "who are likely there because they're too violent to be on the streets"?
 
2012-10-27 01:20:04 PM  
The number of people in here with a "can't do the time don't do the crime" attitude is scary. Both the "fark'm, they're criminals" mentality itself and the life-view that allows you to so easily write-off other human beings. But it's all their fault right? No innocent person ever goes to prison, or if they do it's worth it to make sure no guilty people go free. And I would certainly never end up there, it's only those others who did the wrong things that everybody else can just not do.

I understand certain backward-thinking demographics having that attitude, but if you're here posting on FARK I wouldn't think you'd fall into any of them that squarely. Basically, I thought you were cool man.
 
2012-10-27 01:20:13 PM  
"BEN: You lucky, lucky bastard.
BRIAN: What?
BEN: Proper little jailer's pet, aren't we?
BRIAN: What do you mean?
BEN: You must have slipped him a few shekels, eh?
BRIAN: Slipped him a few shekels? You saw him spit in my face!
BEN: Ohh! What wouldn't I give to be spat at in the face! I sometimes hang
awake at night dreaming of being spat at in the face.
BRIAN: Well, it's not exactly friendly, is it? They had me in manacles!
BEN: Manacles! Ooh oooh oh oh. My idea of heaven is to be allowed to be
put in manacles... just for a few hours. They must think the sun shines out o' your arse, sonny.
BRIAN: Oh, lay off me. I've had a hard time!
BEN: You've had a hard time?! I've been here five years! They only hung me
the right way up yesterday! So, don't you come 'rou--
BRIAN: All right. All right.
BEN: They must think you're Lord God Almighty.
BRIAN: What will they do to me?
BEN: Oh, you'll probably get away with crucifixion.
BRIAN: Crucifixion?!
BEN: Yeah, first offence.
BRIAN: Get away with crucifixion?! It's--
BEN: Best thing the Romans ever did for us.
BRIAN: What?!
BEN: Oh, yeah. If we didn't have crucifixion, this country would be in a
right bloody mess.
BRIAN: Guards!
BEN: Nail him up, I say!"
 
2012-10-27 01:20:14 PM  

fastfxr: GAT_00: Ah, I see the 'criminals are subhuman' crowd is already here.

They're convicted criminals, FFS.


If you're so fond of them, take one in as a pet project after they parole out. You can find needy single inmates (male and female), just looking for someone to shack up with.


Go ahead, you bleeding hearts. Give it a try. Hell, take in your average convicted dealer and let me know how it works out.


Fat chance of that. Expressing concern and dema ding something be done is free and boy do people love deals.
 
2012-10-27 01:20:15 PM  

Generation_D: One last thought on that.

What if everyone just quit using? Not nancy reagan just say no, but eff you current system. Quit buying drugs, quit drinking, quit using medical products you have a say in using.

Send the entire messed up substance seller empire a nice message, the current system in America is effed up badly, so the hell with all of you, we're all going to go straight edge from now on.

Except coffee. Jesus H I'd go to prison before giving up coffee.


This isn't philosophy class. Most people with substance abuse problems will not stop using just to "stick it to the man". Yes, people are responsible for their own choices but you're using that as a cop out. In reality, a segment of the population will always find itself on the wrong side of the war on drugs, especially given current socioeconomic policies. That shouldn't disqualify them from being treated like human beings or having people care about them.
 
2012-10-27 01:21:08 PM  
Prison ain't so bad; you can make sangria in the terlet.

img209.imageshack.us
 
2012-10-27 01:21:27 PM  

uber yeti: NFA: Seeing at all those tattooed gang members who are likely there because they're too violent to be on the streets, DID NOT elicit ANY compassion from me.

In fact my thought is that we need to streamline executions for all known violent gang members. Simply belonging to a violent gang should warrant the death penalty. These groups exist to protect their members when they sell drugs, steal, rob, burglarize, rape, murder, kidnap, hold and sell sex slaves. I say we as a nation stop being a bunch of pussies and begin to systematically wipe out this growing criminal paradigm. If you don't think it's a growing problem in the US, go live in Juarez Mexico and see what our future holds.

Who defines what a violent gang is? How do you positively identify their members? What are the standards to identify these people that will insure you are murdering the correct tattooed gang members "who are likely there because they're too violent to be on the streets"?


ecx.images-amazon.com
 
2012-10-27 01:21:57 PM  

CruJones: Real question. Why does California, with its lax drug laws, liberal policies, etc lead in overcrowding?


Lax drug laws? Decriminalizing marijuana is about the only thing they've done. There are still plenty of other drugs you can be arrested for possessing in California.

Oh, yeah, there's also the three strikes laws, which the first offenders to be sentenced under it have only recently been able to be paroles (2009 would be the first year anyone with three strikes in California was eligible for parole). Sure, crime rates are down, but that doesn't eliminate those who are already in prison long-term. 

/And frankly, it's the extension of sentences, mandatory minimums, etc., combined with prosecutors that run for office on a "tough on crime" platform that have gotten us this far.
//And the private prison movement is only going to take us farther.
 
2012-10-27 01:25:39 PM  

coco ebert: me texan: Happy Hours: And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.

Last I checked, so is the decision to rob, stab and kill people.

Lol, that's funny how you think most people are in jail for violent crimes.


It's all good though. The system is set up in such a way that it ensures if you were not a violent person when you were incarcerated, you will be when you get out.

Creating violence; It's the american way.
 
2012-10-27 01:25:46 PM  
free knives for all inmates
 
2012-10-27 01:26:29 PM  

IlGreven: Butthurted: GAT_00: Generation_D: And I'm supposed to care, why exactly

How can prison rehabilitate in conditions like that? You do realize that's what prison sentences are supposed to do, right?

You still think our prison system is for rehabilitation? How cute.

Well, then, make all prison sentences life sentences, or death sentences. Either call yourself willing to pay for people who commit felonies to be walled off from society for the rest of their lives, or call yourself willing to condone state-sponsored murder. And then watch crime rates skyrocket as thieves who would go to prison for the same amount of time as murderers start murdering because they've got nothing to lose.


So... because the court system has taken a punitive view of incarceration...we now make the leap to "make all prison sentences life sentences?????
Even Hockey has a distinction between minor and major penalties and that came from CANADA!!
i1277.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-27 01:26:54 PM  
i.dailymail.co.uk
 
2012-10-27 01:28:15 PM  

Eddie Ate Dynamite: The number of people in here with a "can't do the time don't do the crime" attitude is scary. Both the "fark'm, they're criminals" mentality itself and the life-view that allows you to so easily write-off other human beings. But it's all their fault right? No innocent person ever goes to prison, or if they do it's worth it to make sure no guilty people go free. And I would certainly never end up there, it's only those others who did the wrong things that everybody else can just not do.

I understand certain backward-thinking demographics having that attitude, but if you're here posting on FARK I wouldn't think you'd fall into any of them that squarely. Basically, I thought you were cool man.


The mentality of taking pleasure in the suffering of others is alive and well. Humans only need the slightest pretense to put people in the category of "Ok to enjoy their misfortune". If it could be proved beyond a shadow of any doubt that a more compassionate, and less punitive prison system (and it has already been proven well beyond that standards needed for reasonable people by other countries) resulted in less recidivism, less crime overall, and fewer violent crimes in particular, I believe most of these people would still be against it. They enjoy vengeance too much to be deprived of it.
 
2012-10-27 01:28:18 PM  
HA HA!

Americans are even fat in prison...
 
2012-10-27 01:30:36 PM  
I'm gonna lean on the lib'rul side of this one. If your crime was not a violation of a person's property rights or physical safety, and it didn't defraud taxpayers, I'm gonna vote not guilty and try to keep you out of jail.
As for my own situation, I don't care if the guy who stole my computer & stereo out of my house in 2004 goes to jail for no days or 30 days or 3,000. I just want my stuff back.

/you know who you are, k.s.
 
2012-10-27 01:31:03 PM  
I had a family member serve 30 days for DUI in colorado. He fully admitted that he deserved to go to jail, and we were all very lucky that when he was pulled over it wasn't because of a car accident or anything-- at least nobody got hurt.

He lost 15 lbs in jail (and he's a small guy) because the food was so inedible. He kept his head down so never got in trouble with the violent offenders-- this jail doubled as a way for people in prison to ease back into society-- but he slept in open bunkhouses like the ones pictured, and it would be very easy for people to get injured.

One man there contracted a MRSA infection while taking a shower and died because the conditions were so filthy.

Let me repeat that. One man, who may have been in there for almost nothing, DIED because the conditions are so deplorable.

Say what you will about people deserving to go to jail for one crime or another, no reasonable person can think that death by virulent bacterial infection, or malnutrition, or anal raping is an acceptable punishment
 
2012-10-27 01:32:03 PM  

Cuthbert Allgood: HA HA!

Americans are even fat in prison...


Likely especially in prison.
 
2012-10-27 01:33:27 PM  
Here's a question for ya: can we find a way to fuel cars with inmates?

/2 birds, 1 stone?
 
2012-10-27 01:34:10 PM  

Generation_D: 2wolves: USA: All the justice you can afford.

yep, just like every country anywhere ever. Don't like it? make money.


Actually, no, every country in the world manages to make do with sending fewer people to prison than the US does. Norway has less than one tenth as many people in prison per capita, has the cushiest prisons in the world, and also has the lowest re-offending rate in the world Go figure.
 
2012-10-27 01:34:15 PM  

pivazena: Let me repeat that. One man, who may have been in there for almost nothing, DIED because the conditions are so deplorable.


I see your problem.
 
2012-10-27 01:35:27 PM  

Repo Man: The mentality of taking pleasure in the suffering of others is alive and well. Humans only need the slightest pretense to put people in the category of "Ok to enjoy their misfortune". If it could be proved beyond a shadow of any doubt that a more compassionate, and less punitive prison system (and it has already been proven well beyond that standards needed for reasonable people by other countries) resulted in less recidivism, less crime overall, and fewer violent crimes in particular, I believe most of these people would still be against it. They enjoy vengeance too much to be deprived of it.


Most Americans would. But if MSNBC's Lockup series portrays the issue accurately, it really does appear that European prisons constitute the soft-on-crime rehabilitation hotels (one Belgian prisoner even compared prison food to food you'd get at a decent hotel--said while eating comfortably in his well lit cell in front of his not-insubstantially sized television) American conservatives imagine American prisons to be. And Anders Brevik's sentence is only 21 years (but he can be held longer if he's determined to constitute a threat). So this vengeance obsession isn't something inherent to the human character.

And if you're wondering, as a matter of public policy, I would strongly prefer our prisons to be soft-on-crime rehabilitation hotels.
 
2012-10-27 01:35:46 PM  

rmoody: uber yeti: NFA: Seeing at all those tattooed gang members who are likely there because they're too violent to be on the streets, DID NOT elicit ANY compassion from me.

In fact my thought is that we need to streamline executions for all known violent gang members. Simply belonging to a violent gang should warrant the death penalty. These groups exist to protect their members when they sell drugs, steal, rob, burglarize, rape, murder, kidnap, hold and sell sex slaves. I say we as a nation stop being a bunch of pussies and begin to systematically wipe out this growing criminal paradigm. If you don't think it's a growing problem in the US, go live in Juarez Mexico and see what our future holds.

Who defines what a violent gang is? How do you positively identify their members? What are the standards to identify these people that will insure you are murdering the correct tattooed gang members "who are likely there because they're too violent to be on the streets"?

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 300x300]


It is funny because it is true.
 
2012-10-27 01:38:14 PM  

GAT_00: Generation_D: And I'm supposed to care, why exactly

How can prison rehabilitate in conditions like that? You do realize that's what prison sentences are supposed to do, right?


Forget it. This thread is dildos.
 
2012-10-27 01:39:31 PM  

pivazena: One man there contracted a MRSA infection while taking a shower and died because the conditions were so filthy.

Let me repeat that. One man, who may have been in there for almost nothing, DIED because the conditions are so deplorable.


You realize you're turning on all the badge-lickers with words like that don't you?
 
2012-10-27 01:39:55 PM  

pivazena:

Say what you will about people deserving to go to jail for one crime or another, no reasonable person can think that death by virulent bacterial infection, or malnutrition, or anal raping is an acceptable punishment


Stick around I'm sure someone will.
 
2012-10-27 01:40:06 PM  
Maybe like China aledgely does, budget for just so many, when they surpass the quota allowed they just shoot the ones with seniority.
/ not sure if true
 
2012-10-27 01:44:19 PM  

GAT_00: Generation_D: And I'm supposed to care, why exactly

How can prison rehabilitate in conditions like that? You do realize that's what prison sentences are supposed to do, right?


Nope. Still don't, no matter how many times the hippies make that claim.

/rehabilitation is an occasional beneficial side effect
//removal of freedom from people who abuse it is the goal
 
2012-10-27 01:44:37 PM  

mechgreg: If there is so much money to be made why are prisons and jails so overcrowded to the point where you hear about people getting early release because of no room?


So they can cycle more people through the system.
 
2012-10-27 01:45:12 PM  

Huck And Molly Ziegler: As for my own situation, I don't care if the guy who stole my computer & stereo out of my house in 2004 goes to jail for no days or 30 days or 3,000. I just want my stuff back.


I would like to see the guys who stole billions of dollars from US banks spend at least a couple months in pound-them-in-the-ass-prison, preferably sharing a cell with the guy who is spending decades there for stealing $300 from a bank.
 
2012-10-27 01:46:05 PM  

PC LOAD LETTER: I truly don't farking care. Don't like it? Don't be a crim.


I had you marked as a liberal. I'm disappointed to discover you're actually a law-worshipping authoritarian.
 
2012-10-27 01:48:15 PM  
i.dailymail.co.uk

Hope they are careful about which of these fine upstanding young men get released.
 
2012-10-27 01:48:59 PM  

Cuthbert Allgood: HA HA!

Americans are even fat in prison...


Was I the only one who read that and heard the guy from "The Hangover" voice. LOLOLOL

/So long Gayboys!!!
 
2012-10-27 01:51:14 PM  
Without reading the thread, is it full of, "It's a lot better than they deserve, which is to be slowly roasted alive, screaming in agony, and it should be televised 24/7 for my fapping enjoyment"?

/I bet it is
 
2012-10-27 01:52:49 PM  
Most of the time burglars are released early when there's overcrowding. So who are all these non-violent criminals...I'm guessing potheads and tax evaders? Not cool, America.
 
2012-10-27 01:53:59 PM  

pciszek: Huck And Molly Ziegler: As for my own situation, I don't care if the guy who stole my computer & stereo out of my house in 2004 goes to jail for no days or 30 days or 3,000. I just want my stuff back.

I would like to see the guys who stole billions of dollars from US banks spend at least a couple months in pound-them-in-the-ass-prison, preferably sharing a cell with the guy who is spending decades there for stealing $300 from a bank.


You enjoy thinking about homosexual rape?
 
2012-10-27 01:55:15 PM  

pciszek: Huck And Molly Ziegler: As for my own situation, I don't care if the guy who stole my computer & stereo out of my house in 2004 goes to jail for no days or 30 days or 3,000. I just want my stuff back.

I would like to see the guys who stole billions of dollars from US banks spend at least a couple months in pound-them-in-the-ass-prison, preferably sharing a cell with the guy who is spending decades there for stealing $300 from a bank.


Or the guy who spent 14 years in jail and was never charged with anything since he didn't have the money he was ordered to turn over.
 
2012-10-27 01:56:07 PM  

Kibbler: Without reading the thread, is it full of, "It's a lot better than they deserve, which is to be slowly roasted alive, screaming in agony, and it should be televised 24/7 for my fapping enjoyment"?

/I bet it is


Yes, and I'm very disappointed to see that it's people I had previously marked as liberals making those types of posts. They ought to know better.
 
2012-10-27 01:57:37 PM  
An island that has farming, a big field where supplies and new inmates can be parachuted onto, no guards, no boats and one big ol heaping helping dose of Darwinism.
 
2012-10-27 01:58:38 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Happy Hours: And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.

me texan: Last I checked, so is the decision to rob, stab and kill people.

Aaaaaand we're done here.


A nation that locks up more of its citizens than any other 'civilized' nation. Nope, nothing to see here! We're all done here! Yay not thinking!

/Really, guys. Really.
//Your brains do have an on switch.
 
2012-10-27 02:01:30 PM  

tonguedepressor: An island that has farming, a big field where supplies and new inmates can be parachuted onto, no guards, no boats and one big ol heaping helping dose of Darwinism.



Lil' Bobby: "Mom, dad where's uncle Billy? You didn't have him put down, did you?"

Dad: "No son. We took him to a farm, where he'll have room to run and play. He's much happier there..."
 
2012-10-27 02:02:32 PM  

yeegrek: Do you ever think that maybe there might be a few too many crimes that result in prison time? That the US might jail people for shiat that other countries don't? T


Then what should be decriminalized? Surely violent crimes that result in the injury and/or death of another human being should result in jail time.
 
2012-10-27 02:04:48 PM  
Oh boo-farking-hoo!

There's plenty of space on the outside. If you want space, how about not getting thrown in prison. Also, to make room, I suggest we survey them, and see how many volunteer to take a bullet to the brain to make room. If we don't get takers, I say we volunteer them. All of them.

These people deserve death, and in some cases worse. But death for them ALL would be a good solution as far as I can tell. We spend tens of thousands of dollars per inmate per year so that murderers and rapist and play cards and watch tv and eat food we pay for? All while we spend maybe half as much per person per year on a graduate student who is teaching class and working his/her ass off in the lab trying to cure cancer? WTF!

And talk about overcrowding? WTF are you talking about. Look at all the space available even in most crowded picture they showed:

img844.imageshack.us

They should all be destroyed.
 
BHK
2012-10-27 02:04:57 PM  
America! Freedom F*** Yeah!

Freedom comes only from obedience to the laws, even if the laws criminalize what a free and peaceful person can do elsewhere or could do previously. At least, that's the line of your average authoritarian leftist or conservative, which seems to be most of the people in this thread.

The US has become a bunch of cowardly sheep who won't be happy until half the population is living in a prison of some fashion.
 
2012-10-27 02:06:03 PM  

me texan: Looks about the same as my barracks in basic training, except they have more freedoms apparently. Do they deserve better than soldiers in basic training / boot camp?


It's not about what they deserve, it's about what will help to keep them from offending again.
 
2012-10-27 02:06:54 PM  
img32.imageshack.us

Poor Kurt Russell. One would think he would have done better after Tombstone.
 
2012-10-27 02:07:24 PM  
Where's the liberal derp pic of "STOP BREAKING THE LAW ASSHOLE"?

War on drugs? Let em go, victim of society.

Red light camera for revenue? STRING HIM UP BY HIS BAWLS.
 
2012-10-27 02:07:54 PM  

Tatterdemalian: GAT_00: Generation_D: And I'm supposed to care, why exactly

How can prison rehabilitate in conditions like that? You do realize that's what prison sentences are supposed to do, right?

Nope. Still don't, no matter how many times the hippies make that claim.

/rehabilitation is an occasional beneficial side effect
//removal of freedom from people who abuse it is the goal


That's a stupid goal. How is it other countries don't want or need to keep people locked up as long as we do? What about Norway's total, vengeance-free focus on rehabilitation and reeducation, which is proven to convert most criminals into non-criminals by the end of the process? Why are we satisfied with justice that seeks to do nothing but break people and has almost no interest in fixing them? It's like we're more interested in the score than the game.
 
2012-10-27 02:08:48 PM  

BHK: The US has become a bunch of cowardly sheep who won't be happy until half the population is living in a prison of some fashion.


i110.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-27 02:09:18 PM  

tonguedepressor: An island that has farming, a big field where supplies and new inmates can be parachuted onto, no guards, no boats and one big ol heaping helping dose of Darwinism.


THIS

Also...

i.qkme.me
 
2012-10-27 02:10:29 PM  
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_pri_per_cap-crime-prisoners-per- capita

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri-crime-total-crimes

The more incarceration, the more crime? Or vice versa?

All I am saying is I deal with felons, druggies, bums and whores a lot where I work. And most of them have the mindset that they would rather get in trouble and go to jail for a few nights than get themselves out of a shiatty lifestyle because that's how they have been trained. Hand-outs and jail cells are a sure thing.

There has got to be something different.
 
2012-10-27 02:11:44 PM  

Fade2black: Where's the liberal derp pic of "STOP BREAKING THE LAW ASSHOLE"?

War on drugs? Let em go, victim of society.

Red light camera for revenue? STRING HIM UP BY HIS BAWLS.


Your user name makes me want to listen to Vader for some reason.
 
2012-10-27 02:11:52 PM  

Generation_D: And I'm supposed to care, why exactly


Because eventually most of those guys are getting out, and they will not be fixed.
 
2012-10-27 02:13:11 PM  
www.djmarquardt.com
There's your problem right there.
 
2012-10-27 02:13:45 PM  

PsiChick: /Really, guys. Really.
//Your brains do have an on switch.


That switch is located at foobies.com
 
2012-10-27 02:14:41 PM  

Happy Hours: me texan: Looks about the same as my barracks in basic training, except they have more freedoms apparently. Do they deserve better than soldiers in basic training / boot camp?

/not subby

Basic training lasts 6-8 weeks? It's designed to instill discipline and whip new recruits to the military into shape and there's little fear that the person in the next bunk is going to rape, stab or just plain beat the shiat out of you for whatever reason or even no reason.

And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.

It would be interesting to get the perspective of people who had both been through boot camp and a prison like this. I've not been to either one, but if you gave me a choice of a prison as pictured or boot camp, I think I'd take boot camp.


Oddly enough, Prison is also all volunteer. You just volunteer by voluntarily committing a crime that carries with it a prison sentence. I have no problems with this.
 
2012-10-27 02:16:57 PM  
they should put a McDonald's in each prison. Make it like a Food Court in every mall you go to. With a Sbarro's and Taco Bell too..
 
2012-10-27 02:17:15 PM  

Kit Fister: Happy Hours: me texan: Looks about the same as my barracks in basic training, except they have more freedoms apparently. Do they deserve better than soldiers in basic training / boot camp?

/not subby

Basic training lasts 6-8 weeks? It's designed to instill discipline and whip new recruits to the military into shape and there's little fear that the person in the next bunk is going to rape, stab or just plain beat the shiat out of you for whatever reason or even no reason.

And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.

It would be interesting to get the perspective of people who had both been through boot camp and a prison like this. I've not been to either one, but if you gave me a choice of a prison as pictured or boot camp, I think I'd take boot camp.

Oddly enough, Prison is also all volunteer. You just volunteer by voluntarily committing a crime that carries with it a prison sentence. I have no problems with this.


Because all laws are wise and fair and no one is ever wrongfully convicted.
 
2012-10-27 02:18:03 PM  
Overcrowding? Why not raise more taxes and build more prisons?

. . . but don't raise taxes on the rich. After all, they're not the ones in the prisons, so why should they have to pay for them?

/why . . . I believe I've just crafted a new Republican talking point.
 
2012-10-27 02:18:03 PM  

Nem Wan: Tatterdemalian: GAT_00: Generation_D: And I'm supposed to care, why exactly

How can prison rehabilitate in conditions like that? You do realize that's what prison sentences are supposed to do, right?

Nope. Still don't, no matter how many times the hippies make that claim.

/rehabilitation is an occasional beneficial side effect
//removal of freedom from people who abuse it is the goal

That's a stupid goal. How is it other countries don't want or need to keep people locked up as long as we do? What about Norway's total, vengeance-free focus on rehabilitation and reeducation, which is proven to convert most criminals into non-criminals by the end of the process? Why are we satisfied with justice that seeks to do nothing but break people and has almost no interest in fixing them? It's like we're more interested in the score than the game.


What about the needs of Norwegian conservatives? Where do they go for their schadenfreude fix? Answer me that Mr. smartypants!
 
2012-10-27 02:21:04 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 850x511]

Hope they are careful about which of these fine upstanding young men get released.


I see you are trolling.

A good friend of mine farked up and went to jail. Not a bad kid, just was in a bad way and got caught with a friend with drugs. His friend threw him under the bus for bigger shiat so that he could get off lighter. My friend went in a misguided kid that made a mistake, and came out looking like those guys and had a far bigger view of the world of crime. People learn to be dregs of society in prison, because that's what you have to do to get by.
 
2012-10-27 02:22:44 PM  
FTA:
The [USA] is streets ahead of the rest of the world in terms of the number of prisoners per 100,000 population, with Russia the second highest and South Africa in third. The European average took fourth place.

Streets ahead? I didn't know someone had coined that phrase.
 
drp
2012-10-27 02:22:51 PM  

calbert: where's the photo gallery of the lives of their victims?


What makes you think all of them even had victims?

Nonviolent drug crimes send a lot of people to prison.
 
2012-10-27 02:23:19 PM  
Oh boo fuking whoo. Quit being a gang member, (as most of those pictures show) or murdering, or molesting, or whatever dumb shiat you did to get in there in the first place. It's prison, it's not supposed to be comfortable or a good time.
 
2012-10-27 02:23:26 PM  
On the other hand, imagine if everyone refused to ple-bargin and asked for a speedy trial (sixth amendment). In many states that six-month requirement would fly by mighty fast. The rule is: A violation of the Speedy Trial Clause is cause for dismissal with prejudice of a criminal case.
 
2012-10-27 02:23:28 PM  
A lot of Americans seem to have an abuser/abused relationship with their own government (which I suppose is to be expected when a government makes war on its own people). Some people really, really need to believe that there is a good reason why so many of their own citizens are punished so severely. I suppose it's a lot easier to identify with the abuser and think that as long as you mindlessly obey a set of arbitrary rules (e.g don't smoke pot) they'll leave you alone.

assets.rollingstone.com

"There's a perfectly good reason why that's not me and it's him. The right people always win, I'm sure of it."

/hot
 
2012-10-27 02:25:36 PM  
Look at all the Mexicans. I wonder how many of them are illegals. If we got rid of them that would be more than sufficient to reduce inmate numbers to acceptable levels for the space they have. It'd help out our Department Of Corrections budget problems too, since it costs about 48 thousand dollars a year to house these guys.
 
2012-10-27 02:26:43 PM  
End the drug war.
 
2012-10-27 02:29:05 PM  
Last time I saw a prison overcrowding story on Fark, I came up with this solution:
1. Change criminal laws so that anyone convicted of theft or any kind of violent crime gets the death penalty.
2. Apply these laws retroactively to those currently incarcerated.
Any jurisdiction that applies this simple solution will quickly solve the problem of prison overcrowding and become a much nicer place to live.
 
2012-10-27 02:30:09 PM  

omgwtfetc: A lot of Americans seem to have an abuser/abused relationship with their own government (which I suppose is to be expected when a government makes war on its own people). Some people really, really need to believe that there is a good reason why so many of their own citizens are punished so severely. I suppose it's a lot easier to identify with the abuser and think that as long as you mindlessly obey a set of arbitrary rules (e.g don't smoke pot) they'll leave you alone.

[assets.rollingstone.com image 306x420]

"There's a perfectly good reason why that's not me and it's him. The right people always win, I'm sure of it."

/hot


I think I love you.
No, wait, that's Louis CK that I love.
Yes, this 26-year-old young woman would be all over those cynical old man balls like honey on a hot buiscut.

/sshh
 
2012-10-27 02:32:15 PM  

mike0023: Last time I saw a prison overcrowding story on Fark, I came up with this solution:
1. Change criminal laws so that anyone convicted of theft or any kind of violent crime gets the death penalty.
2. Apply these laws retroactively to those currently incarcerated.
Any jurisdiction that applies this simple solution will quickly solve the problem of prison overcrowding and become a much nicer place to live.


LOL, yeah, a society that engages in mass executions for minor crimes would be such a nice place to live.
 
2012-10-27 02:33:45 PM  
WAAAAAAH, I JOINED A GANG AND ROBBED PEOPLE, ASSAULTED PEOPLE, AND SOLD DRUGS OF MY OWN FREE WILL AND NOW THEY WON'T LET ME LEAVE THIS PRISON! WAAAAAAH

zero
farks
given
 
2012-10-27 02:34:33 PM  

omgwtfetc: mike0023: Last time I saw a prison overcrowding story on Fark, I came up with this solution:
1. Change criminal laws so that anyone convicted of theft or any kind of violent crime gets the death penalty.
2. Apply these laws retroactively to those currently incarcerated.
Any jurisdiction that applies this simple solution will quickly solve the problem of prison overcrowding and become a much nicer place to live.

LOL, yeah, a society that engages in mass executions for minor crimes would be such a nice place to live.


Better than a society that refuses to execute anyone, no matter how bad their crime.
 
2012-10-27 02:37:27 PM  

The_Original_Roxtar: zero
farks
given


and that is why you fail.
 
2012-10-27 02:37:53 PM  

mike0023: omgwtfetc: mike0023: Last time I saw a prison overcrowding story on Fark, I came up with this solution:
1. Change criminal laws so that anyone convicted of theft or any kind of violent crime gets the death penalty.
2. Apply these laws retroactively to those currently incarcerated.
Any jurisdiction that applies this simple solution will quickly solve the problem of prison overcrowding and become a much nicer place to live.

LOL, yeah, a society that engages in mass executions for minor crimes would be such a nice place to live.

Better than a society that refuses to execute anyone, no matter how bad their crime.


Do you honestly believe that? I'm trying very hard not to Godwin this, but can you picture what a society that engages in mass executions of minor criminals would look like? Do you really think it would be "nice"?
 
2012-10-27 02:38:49 PM  
I get the feeling that a lot of people posting in here actually believe that the West Memphis Three were innocent.
 
2012-10-27 02:39:15 PM  

mike0023: LOL, yeah, a society that engages in mass executions for minor crimes would be such a nice place to live.

Better than a society that refuses to execute anyone, no matter how bad their crime.


There are several such societies, such as Denmark, where people are happier than they are in the USA, according to every study that has been done.
 
2012-10-27 02:40:44 PM  

Silly Jesus: [i963.photobucket.com image 201x152]


You dog, you!
 
2012-10-27 02:45:29 PM  

tonguedepressor: An island that has farming, a big field where supplies and new inmates can be parachuted onto, no guards, no boats and one big ol heaping helping dose of Darwinism.


Even though I mostly think we should try to rehabilitate prisoners for real, I would watch that show... I'm a bad person sometimes.
 
2012-10-27 02:46:35 PM  

charmbomb: omgwtfetc: A lot of Americans seem to have an abuser/abused relationship with their own government (which I suppose is to be expected when a government makes war on its own people). Some people really, really need to believe that there is a good reason why so many of their own citizens are punished so severely. I suppose it's a lot easier to identify with the abuser and think that as long as you mindlessly obey a set of arbitrary rules (e.g don't smoke pot) they'll leave you alone.

[assets.rollingstone.com image 306x420]

"There's a perfectly good reason why that's not me and it's him. The right people always win, I'm sure of it."

/hot

I think I love you.
No, wait, that's Louis CK that I love.
Yes, this 26-year-old young woman would be all over those cynical old man balls like honey on a hot buiscut.

/sshh


You just like him because he remembers going to the movies when it cost three dollars and there was smoking on airplanes. Not to mention the old man smell.
 
2012-10-27 02:47:39 PM  

PsiChick: A nation that locks up more of its citizens than any other 'civilized' nation. Nope, nothing to see here! We're all done here! Yay not thinking!


I would venture to say that our violent crime rate is a little higher than other countries as well. Please note that the comment that I replied to referred to violent crimes...not to our farking ridiculous drug 'crimes'.
 
2012-10-27 02:47:40 PM  

PC LOAD LETTER: I truly don't farking care. Don't like it? Don't be a crim.



Yeah but ramraiding is so much fun
 
2012-10-27 02:48:09 PM  
If you want to know where all the manufacturing jobs went, they're all done by prisoners now. Prisoners in the US make everything imaginable. Furniture, appliances, weapons, ammo, everything.
 
2012-10-27 02:48:20 PM  
For those of you who have evolved beyond the "Everybody who gets sent to prison is guilty" mindset, consider 2 things:

*Some of the posters in this thread will serve on juries

*Some American prisons won't even admit journalists because the conditions are worse than those depicted in TFA
 
2012-10-27 02:49:01 PM  

tonguedepressor: An island that has farming, a big field where supplies and new inmates can be parachuted onto, no guards, no boats and one big ol heaping helping dose of Darwinism.


vikchav.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-10-27 02:49:03 PM  

mike0023: Last time I saw a prison overcrowding story on Fark, I came up with this solution:
1. Change criminal laws so that anyone convicted of theft or any kind of violent crime gets the death penalty.
2. Apply these laws retroactively to those currently incarcerated.
Any jurisdiction that applies this simple solution will quickly solve the problem of prison overcrowding and become a much nicer place to live.


1. Supreme Court rulings over the years, including Kennedy v. Louisiana just four years ago, have made the death penalty unconstitutional for almost any crime without a dead victim.
2. Ex post facto laws are explicitly unconstitutional.

I'm pointing out the obvious but my real point is that everyone's fantasy solution will be neutered in the process of political compromise with people who totally disagree with it.
 
2012-10-27 02:53:56 PM  
This isn't a liberal or conservative only viewpoint. It's the fact that we as a society allow the government to keep forcing new laws and new laws and new laws down our throat. Then when we get popped, the rest shout out "stop breaking the law asshole" until they themselves get popped, and all of a sudden they were a victim; and new people will cry out "stop breaking the law asshole".

Point of fact is, every year politicians pass dozens and dozens of new laws to restrict our freedom. And zero to give it back. We have no one to blame but ourselves. But because we're all disgusting idiots who vote based on what letter is beside their name instead of what we feel they'll actually vote on, we allow it.

Enjoy your user-made society.
 
2012-10-27 02:54:06 PM  

pciszek: mike0023: LOL, yeah, a society that engages in mass executions for minor crimes would be such a nice place to live.

Better than a society that refuses to execute anyone, no matter how bad their crime.

There are several such societies, such as Denmark, where people are happier than they are in the USA, according to every study that has been done.


My "common sense" tells me that you are wrong, and is immune to your so called "facts" and "evidence".
 
2012-10-27 02:56:12 PM  

Nem Wan: mike0023: Last time I saw a prison overcrowding story on Fark, I came up with this solution:
1. Change criminal laws so that anyone convicted of theft or any kind of violent crime gets the death penalty.
2. Apply these laws retroactively to those currently incarcerated.
Any jurisdiction that applies this simple solution will quickly solve the problem of prison overcrowding and become a much nicer place to live.

1. Supreme Court rulings over the years, including Kennedy v. Louisiana just four years ago, have made the death penalty unconstitutional for almost any crime without a dead victim.
2. Ex post facto laws are explicitly unconstitutional.


As to your point #1, Supreme Court rulings are not set in stone, all it would take to change things are a couple of right-thinking justices. As to your point #2, if (when?) enough people see prison overcrowding as a problem, the constitution can be amended.
 
2012-10-27 02:57:43 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: Oh boo fuking whoo. Quit being a gang member, (as most of those pictures show) or murdering, or molesting, or whatever dumb shiat you did to get in there in the first place. It's prison, it's not supposed to be comfortable or a good time.


Again I say, if they weren't in a gang or a violent person when they went in they most likely will be when they get out. Then they'll go ahead and move to the shadier part of your town. Don't let that shiat get you down though, the status quo is obviously working as evidenced by the U.S. having the highest incarceration rate in the Western World.

If tomorrow all the things were gone I'd worked for all my life,
And I had to start again with just my children and my wife,
I'd thank my lucky stars to be living here today,
'Cause the flag still stands for freedom
And they can't take that away.

 
2012-10-27 02:59:17 PM  
CSB time:

I once spent a week in Marine transient berthing at naval station Philadelphia, when I checked in I wondered why all the doors were heavy steel with holes where they had used torches to cut locks out, my "room" was a 6x8 cell with no lock on the heavy steel door and a bungie cord holding it shut. I asked wtf was up and was told that it used to be the brig, but the Inspector General had ruled it unsafe for prisoners so they transferred them out, removed the locks and made it Marine berthing. So the place was unsafe for prisoners but just dandy for Marines, that told me exactly where the powers that be had us on the food chain...
 
2012-10-27 03:00:05 PM  

The_Original_Roxtar: WAAAAAAH, I JOINED A GANG AND ROBBED PEOPLE, ASSAULTED PEOPLE, AND SOLD DRUGS OF MY OWN FREE WILL AND NOW THEY WON'T LET ME LEAVE THIS PRISON! WAAAAAAH

zero
farks
given


Stupid kid steals a car, get sent up to do hard time in one of our criminal factories. Serves his time, is released, breaks into your apartment, rapes your girlfriend in front of you, and kills you both. Doesn't give a fark. He learned some things in the joint you see, and one of them was that human life has no value at all. But you're ok with that.
 
2012-10-27 03:00:32 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: PsiChick: A nation that locks up more of its citizens than any other 'civilized' nation. Nope, nothing to see here! We're all done here! Yay not thinking!

I would venture to say that our violent crime rate is a little higher than other countries as well. Please note that the comment that I replied to referred to violent crimes...not to our farking ridiculous drug 'crimes'.


...And that's not weird either because..?

/Prison is the symptom, not the problem.
 
2012-10-27 03:01:26 PM  

jim32rr: me texan: Happy Hours: And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.

Last I checked, so is the decision to rob, stab and kill people.

Exactly, fark em.


At least one of the pictures was from a county jail. Most jail inmates haven't been convicted of a crime and are awaiting trial.

And some people are jailed or imprisoned for growing marijuana, which isn't something that should be criminalized to the extent it is.
 
2012-10-27 03:01:41 PM  

mike0023: Nem Wan: mike0023: Last time I saw a prison overcrowding story on Fark, I came up with this solution:
1. Change criminal laws so that anyone convicted of theft or any kind of violent crime gets the death penalty.
2. Apply these laws retroactively to those currently incarcerated.
Any jurisdiction that applies this simple solution will quickly solve the problem of prison overcrowding and become a much nicer place to live.

1. Supreme Court rulings over the years, including Kennedy v. Louisiana just four years ago, have made the death penalty unconstitutional for almost any crime without a dead victim.
2. Ex post facto laws are explicitly unconstitutional.

As to your point #1, Supreme Court rulings are not set in stone, all it would take to change things are a couple of right-thinking justices. As to your point #2, if (when?) enough people see prison overcrowding as a problem, the constitution can be amended.


You are a moron.
 
2012-10-27 03:03:03 PM  
Today I learned that many Americans like to pay taxes for only 2 things:
1 Wars (already knew that one)
2 Prisoners

/also learned the similarity between those peoples' brains and US prisons: not enough cells
 
2012-10-27 03:03:22 PM  

omgwtfetc: A lot of Americans seem to have an abuser/abused relationship with their own government (which I suppose is to be expected when a government makes war on its own people). Some people really, really need to believe that there is a good reason why so many of their own citizens are punished so severely. I suppose it's a lot easier to identify with the abuser and think that as long as you mindlessly obey a set of arbitrary rules (e.g don't smoke pot) they'll leave you alone.

[assets.rollingstone.com image 306x420]

"There's a perfectly good reason why that's not me and it's him. The right people always win, I'm sure of it."

/hot


The Just-World Fallacy
 
2012-10-27 03:03:24 PM  
Has anyone noticed that this seems to be a stealth form of eugenics? Just take a bunch of "undesirable" men and forcibly remove them from the female population when they are most likely to father children.

Which might at least be understandable if the only people affected were violent criminals, but it does seem more than a little creepy when you start locking up people for smoking pot.
 
2012-10-27 03:04:12 PM  
Man, I wish the Office of Justice stats were more easily sharable from here.

FY 2010 Prisoners entering Federal prison
Offense type N
Violent offenses 2,851
Property offenses 8,144
Drug offenses 24,508
Public-order offenses 5,906
Weapon offenses 8,336
Immigration offenses 21,520
Missing/Unknown 707
Total 71,972

It's not murderers and rapists filling the prison system - it's immigration and drugs. What with crack being exponentially a longer prison sentence than cocaine (I think 17 years vs 1 year, but I can't remember. They just changed it) it's pretty obviously slanted to be a money machine to trap brown and black people.
 
2012-10-27 03:05:06 PM  
I thought I'd let everybody get their rants off their chests before I pointed something out:
overcrowded prisons are both a sign of social malaise and a potential source of social problems - problems that blow back on society as a whole. There's a lot more to it than "Oh, the poor prisoners are being mistreated, and my heart bleeds".
If they were the only people affected by this, it would be one thing - but that isn't the case, and there's little point in discussing it as if it were.
 
2012-10-27 03:06:32 PM  

mike0023: Better than a society that refuses to execute anyone, no matter how bad their crime.


The concept of liberty requires that government power is limited to use that achieves a legitimate purpose and that government have a limited purpose. Once we agree there are limits it's a matter of where those limits are. If you had said, "better than a society that refuses to draw and quarter anyone, no matter how bad their crime," you would be referring to power that government is no longer granted. It's just as easy to imagine society functioning without lethal injection as it does without drawing and quartering.

Philosophically, capital punishment just seems basically incompatible with a society that's not based on a personality cult or totalitarian conformity. The fact the death penalty is so delayed and inconsistent in the U.S. is because opponents of it have made it difficult, and those opponents are never going away. We should just give up on the death penalty. It's a lot easier for capital punishment opponents to mess up a capital punishment system than it is for capital punishment supporters to mess up a non-capital punishment system. What would happen without capital punishment, vigilante revenge murders? Go to prison. Next!
 
2012-10-27 03:06:56 PM  

Repo Man: The_Original_Roxtar: WAAAAAAH, I JOINED A GANG AND ROBBED PEOPLE, ASSAULTED PEOPLE, AND SOLD DRUGS OF MY OWN FREE WILL AND NOW THEY WON'T LET ME LEAVE THIS PRISON! WAAAAAAH

zero
farks
given

Stupid kid steals a car, get sent up to do hard time in one of our criminal factories. Serves his time, is released, breaks into your apartment, rapes your girlfriend in front of you, and kills you both. Doesn't give a fark. He learned some things in the joint you see, and one of them was that human life has no value at all. But you're ok with that.


So you're saying being stupid shouldn't be a crime? I hope your car never gets stolen. What a stupid argument.
 
2012-10-27 03:08:22 PM  

GriffXX: Man, I wish the Office of Justice stats were more easily sharable from here.

FY 2010 Prisoners entering Federal prison
Offense type N
Violent offenses 2,851
Property offenses 8,144
Drug offenses 24,508
Public-order offenses 5,906
Weapon offenses 8,336
Immigration offenses 21,520
Missing/Unknown 707
Total 71,972

It's not murderers and rapists filling the prison system - it's immigration and drugs. What with crack being exponentially a longer prison sentence than cocaine (I think 17 years vs 1 year, but I can't remember. They just changed it) it's pretty obviously slanted to be a money machine to trap brown and black people.


And I'm sure popular culture has done nothing to dissuade said black people from the actions that cause them to end up in jail. Stop glamorizing gang/thug behavior and watch the prisons empty out.
 
2012-10-27 03:09:41 PM  
Wow, there are some truly awful people in this thread.
 
2012-10-27 03:09:55 PM  

Fade2black: Repo Man: The_Original_Roxtar: WAAAAAAH, I JOINED A GANG AND ROBBED PEOPLE, ASSAULTED PEOPLE, AND SOLD DRUGS OF MY OWN FREE WILL AND NOW THEY WON'T LET ME LEAVE THIS PRISON! WAAAAAAH

zero
farks
given

Stupid kid steals a car, get sent up to do hard time in one of our criminal factories. Serves his time, is released, breaks into your apartment, rapes your girlfriend in front of you, and kills you both. Doesn't give a fark. He learned some things in the joint you see, and one of them was that human life has no value at all. But you're ok with that.

So you're saying being stupid shouldn't be a crime? I hope your car never gets stolen. What a stupid argument.


Point --------------->

You ---------------->
 
2012-10-27 03:10:08 PM  
Most of them in there probably want to be in there -- no bills, no rent, sit around playing cards and working out all day? Yeah you have to dodge some prison rape from time to time but most of them don't look TOO upset to be there.

Feck' em all is what I say.

Want to cut down on the prison population? Make prison tough - want dinner? then you are going to work 8 hours doing some sort of menial labor. I will agree that making "marijuana" legal would probably be a smart move... personally I've never smoked and never care to. If you are caught driving or operating heavy machinery while high... you get locked in a hole to rot, but if you are smart about your use, what do I care?

Anyone caught stealing gets a hand chopped off - anyone who's guilty of assault gets their ass beat publicly. Guilty of murder? get an automatic appeal - guilty again? Hang you at noon. Punish these assholes quick/fast/harshly and move on. Sitting around shooting the shiat with their prison buddies on my dime sure isn't rehabilitating them.

Why should we worry about the quality of prisoners life after they go through the system? If you commit a felony, you should have a felony on your record. Also, never underestimate the power of social based shame punishments - i.e. you steal, you lose your hand. After just one generation we would see a dramatic improvement in our levels of crime.

When your punishment system is a revolving door of free food, free medical care, and all the workout time you can handle... is it any wonder people "don't mind" going to prison.
 
2012-10-27 03:10:23 PM  
So we've got the violent revenge fetishists, the "fark em, they're criminals" morons, the authoritarian badge lickers..

..and a very, very tiny minority who sees something wrong here. A lot of you sh*tfu*ckers need to have your heads examined.
 
2012-10-27 03:12:24 PM  

Eddie Ate Dynamite: I understand certain backward-thinking demographics having that attitude, but if you're here posting on FARK I wouldn't think you'd fall into any of them that squarely. Basically, I thought you were cool man.


Not that it would be very reassuring, but this thread looks a lot better after you've checked out the comments under TFA.
 
2012-10-27 03:13:53 PM  
And I messed that up. Point is, a lot of you asshats make me irrationally angry that we inhabit the same planet, and now I'm going to go do something productive with the rest of my day. I hope you get what's coming to you.

/fark you very much james for linking me to this thread
//:)
 
2012-10-27 03:14:06 PM  

SnoopDOhDubbaGee: *Some American prisons won't even admit journalists because the conditions are worse than those depicted in TFA


Oh, like Corcoran State Prison in California, where the guards held "Gladiator Days" pitting members of different gangs against each other, and then shooting them both? Link I guess that's one way to solve overcrowding.

/I served in the Army with an ex-prison guard. Most sadistic person I ever met
 
2012-10-27 03:14:55 PM  

Nem Wan: The concept of liberty...


I don't know about concepts. I do know that my proposed solution will (1) rapidly reduce prison overcrowding, (2) remove violent criminals and thieves from our midst, (3) discourage other potential violent criminals and thieves. In my opinion, that would make our society better.
 
2012-10-27 03:15:36 PM  

accelerus: Anyone caught stealing gets a hand chopped off - anyone who's guilty of assault gets their ass beat publicly. Guilty of murder? get an automatic appeal - guilty again? Hang you at noon. Punish these assholes quick/fast/harshly and move on.


This brilliant idea has never before been tried by any society!
 
2012-10-27 03:16:05 PM  
Who gives a crap about these guys. If they are not getting arse farked every day in jail then they should be happy.

Ohhhh they should be arse farked everyday.
 
2012-10-27 03:16:18 PM  

GAT_00: Generation_D: And I'm supposed to care, why exactly

How can prison rehabilitate in conditions like that? You do realize that's what prison sentences are supposed to do, right?


According to whom? It's nice if it happens but its more correct to say it simply segregates those who can't play nice in society from those who can. Given recidivism rates for most of the crimes calling their time incarcerated "rehabilitation" is just wishful thinking.
 
2012-10-27 03:16:29 PM  

TsukasaK: /fark you very much james for linking me to this thread


We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
2012-10-27 03:17:27 PM  

charmbomb: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 850x511]

Hope they are careful about which of these fine upstanding young men get released.

I see you are trolling.

A good friend of mine farked up and went to jail. Not a bad kid, just was in a bad way and got caught with a friend with drugs. His friend threw him under the bus for bigger shiat so that he could get off lighter. My friend went in a misguided kid that made a mistake, and came out looking like those guys and had a far bigger view of the world of crime. People learn to be dregs of society in prison, because that's what you have to do to get by.


It's quite amazing how everyone has a story. It's never their fault. And even if it is, well, it's not. And if you disagree, you're trolling. Brilliant!
 
2012-10-27 03:18:08 PM  

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: SnoopDOhDubbaGee: *Some American prisons won't even admit journalists because the conditions are worse than those depicted in TFA

Oh, like Corcoran State Prison in California, where the guards held "Gladiator Days" pitting members of different gangs against each other, and then shooting them both? Link I guess that's one way to solve overcrowding.

/I served in the Army with an ex-prison guard. Most sadistic person I ever met


Some of the prisoners mentioned in that article sound pretty sadistic to me.
 
2012-10-27 03:20:12 PM  

Repo Man: The_Original_Roxtar: WAAAAAAH, I JOINED A GANG AND ROBBED PEOPLE, ASSAULTED PEOPLE, AND SOLD DRUGS OF MY OWN FREE WILL AND NOW THEY WON'T LET ME LEAVE THIS PRISON! WAAAAAAH

zero
farks
given

Stupid kid steals a car, get sent up to do hard time in one of our criminal factories. Serves his time, is released, breaks into your apartment, rapes your girlfriend in front of you, and kills you both. Doesn't give a fark. He learned some things in the joint you see, and one of them was that human life has no value at all. But you're ok with that.


Wow. Overwrought rhetoric much? Based on your logic, no one should go to jail because it will just turn them into murdering rapists.
 
2012-10-27 03:20:21 PM  

NFA: In fact my thought is that we need to streamline executions for all known violent gang members. Simply belonging to a violent gang should warrant the death penalty.


So you're in favor sending most cops straight to the gas chamber?
 
2012-10-27 03:21:07 PM  
i don't see any problem here. if a person does drugs and is non violent, they won't get arrested. only the violent ones go to jail.

*scurries off into the corner and grabs popcorn*
 
2012-10-27 03:21:56 PM  

Snowflake Tubbybottom: GAT_00: Generation_D: And I'm supposed to care, why exactly

How can prison rehabilitate in conditions like that? You do realize that's what prison sentences are supposed to do, right?

According to whom? It's nice if it happens but its more correct to say it simply segregates those who can't play nice in society from those who can. Given recidivism rates for most of the crimes calling their time incarcerated "rehabilitation" is just wishful thinking.


THIS.
 
2012-10-27 03:24:02 PM  

darkedgefan: Who gives a crap about these guys. If they are not getting arse farked every day in jail then they should be happy.

Ohhhh they should be arse farked everyday.


I hope you keep the hand lotion nearby when you get excited thinking about prison rape.
 
2012-10-27 03:24:38 PM  
Has anyone pointed out yet that JAIL and PRISON are not the same thing?

Way to go writer.
 
2012-10-27 03:24:58 PM  

MrHelpful: charmbomb: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 850x511]

Hope they are careful about which of these fine upstanding young men get released.

I see you are trolling.

A good friend of mine farked up and went to jail. Not a bad kid, just was in a bad way and got caught with a friend with drugs. His friend threw him under the bus for bigger shiat so that he could get off lighter. My friend went in a misguided kid that made a mistake, and came out looking like those guys and had a far bigger view of the world of crime. People learn to be dregs of society in prison, because that's what you have to do to get by.

It's quite amazing how everyone has a story. It's never their fault. And even if it is, well, it's not. And if you disagree, you're trolling. Brilliant!


It's a lot easier to just assume everyone gets exactly what they deserve, right?
 
2012-10-27 03:26:58 PM  

MrHelpful: Snowflake Tubbybottom: GAT_00: Generation_D: And I'm supposed to care, why exactly

How can prison rehabilitate in conditions like that? You do realize that's what prison sentences are supposed to do, right?

According to whom? It's nice if it happens but its more correct to say it simply segregates those who can't play nice in society from those who can. Given recidivism rates for most of the crimes calling their time incarcerated "rehabilitation" is just wishful thinking.

THIS.


It's entirely up to us what sort of prison system we have, and to a large degree, how effective it is at either releasing people who can live peacefully in society, or at releasing hopeless sociopaths who come out much worse than they were when they went in.
 
2012-10-27 03:27:53 PM  

MrHelpful: Repo Man: The_Original_Roxtar: WAAAAAAH, I JOINED A GANG AND ROBBED PEOPLE, ASSAULTED PEOPLE, AND SOLD DRUGS OF MY OWN FREE WILL AND NOW THEY WON'T LET ME LEAVE THIS PRISON! WAAAAAAH

zero
farks
given

Stupid kid steals a car, get sent up to do hard time in one of our criminal factories. Serves his time, is released, breaks into your apartment, rapes your girlfriend in front of you, and kills you both. Doesn't give a fark. He learned some things in the joint you see, and one of them was that human life has no value at all. But you're ok with that.

Wow. Overwrought rhetoric much? Based on your logic, no one should go to jail because it will just turn them into murdering rapists.


It's not a complicated concept but since some people seem to be having trouble with it, prison should not turn two bit criminals into murdering rapists, or you know nobody should ever go to prison, that's the ticket.
 
2012-10-27 03:28:50 PM  

PC LOAD LETTER: I truly don't farking care. Don't like it? Don't be a crim.


Three Felonies a Day
 
2012-10-27 03:32:24 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Has anyone pointed out yet that JAIL and PRISON are not the same thing?

Way to go writer.


talk to many people and they will tell you JAIL = PRISON. i didn't believe that at first. but now i know they are the same thing. cause people say so.
 
2012-10-27 03:34:21 PM  

Generation_D: And I'm supposed to care, why exactly


Because the reason the prisons are filling up is because of all the people who end up there who committed no real crime. Crimes that are simply offenses against the state, like using a drug the state doesn't approve of.

Given the volume of laws and vagueness of many of them, all that separates any of us from prison is the willingness of someone in a government job to put us there.
 
2012-10-27 03:37:33 PM  
Maybe they shouldn't have committed a crime in the first place.

There. I absolved myself of all responsibility for concerning myself with this issue, and I can now put it out of my mind and get back to regular life.
 
2012-10-27 03:40:30 PM  

2wolves: Generation_D: 2wolves: USA: All the justice you can afford.

yep, just like every country anywhere ever. Don't like it? make money.

You can't create a civil society through incarceration.


You are correct, it's done by following the laws of a civil society.
 
2012-10-27 03:40:54 PM  

leadmetal: Crimes that are simply offenses against the state, like using a drug the state doesn't approve of.


California has a large alternative sentencing program. The jails aren't full of people who were just using drugs. The pro-drug people like to pad the statics with people who plea down from more serious charges, people who refuse to comply with the terms of their alternative sentencing, and people who are violating probation/parole terms.
 
2012-10-27 03:45:21 PM  

hulk hogan meat shoes: GriffXX: Man, I wish the Office of Justice stats were more easily sharable from here.

FY 2010 Prisoners entering Federal prison
Offense type N
Violent offenses 2,851
Property offenses 8,144
Drug offenses 24,508
Public-order offenses 5,906
Weapon offenses 8,336
Immigration offenses 21,520
Missing/Unknown 707
Total 71,972

It's not murderers and rapists filling the prison system - it's immigration and drugs. What with crack being exponentially a longer prison sentence than cocaine (I think 17 years vs 1 year, but I can't remember. They just changed it) it's pretty obviously slanted to be a money machine to trap brown and black people.

And I'm sure popular culture has done nothing to dissuade said black people from the actions that cause them to end up in jail. Stop glamorizing gang/thug behavior and watch the prisons empty out.


Yeah - I think it's pretty much pointless to debate this since our focus is so completely different. For me, the real point is the same chemical can put you in jail in different ways which is much more lenient on people that have money for a more refined product. The more expensive refined kind gets you 1 year, the cheaper kind gets you 17+ years. That's like us both being caught for speeding on the freeway and you having 17x the fine because you are driving a cheaper car.
 
2012-10-27 03:45:37 PM  

MrHelpful: Repo Man: The_Original_Roxtar: WAAAAAAH, I JOINED A GANG AND ROBBED PEOPLE, ASSAULTED PEOPLE, AND SOLD DRUGS OF MY OWN FREE WILL AND NOW THEY WON'T LET ME LEAVE THIS PRISON! WAAAAAAH

zero
farks
given

Stupid kid steals a car, get sent up to do hard time in one of our criminal factories. Serves his time, is released, breaks into your apartment, rapes your girlfriend in front of you, and kills you both. Doesn't give a fark. He learned some things in the joint you see, and one of them was that human life has no value at all. But you're ok with that.

Wow. Overwrought rhetoric much? Based on your logic, no one should go to jail because it will just turn them into murdering rapists.


Or maybe a system that doesn't just put those who can be salvaged in with those who cannot. Or any number of the reforms that could easily be instituted to do all that we are able to make incarceration something that actually improves things, rather than making them worse. But if you are happy with the idea of sending in a kid who made a stupid mistake, and releasing an animal who will kill you for looking at him funny without a second thought, our present system is for you.
 
2012-10-27 03:49:44 PM  

Ilmarinen: Today I learned that many Americans like to pay taxes for only 2 things:
1 Wars (already knew that one)
2 Prisoners

/also learned the similarity between those peoples' brains and US prisons: not enough cells



Privately run prisons paid by tax money? Sounds pretty damn good to me. How do I get in on this action?
 
2012-10-27 03:49:51 PM  

Repo Man: Or any number of the reforms that could easily be instituted to do all that we are able to make incarceration something that actually improves things, rather than making them worse.


Like what?
 
2012-10-27 03:50:55 PM  

Pribar: I once spent a week in Marine transient berthing at naval station Philadelphia, when I checked in I wondered why all the doors were heavy steel with holes where they had used torches to cut locks out, my "room" was a 6x8 cell with no lock on the heavy steel door and a bungie cord holding it shut. I asked wtf was up and was told that it used to be the brig, but the Inspector General had ruled it unsafe for prisoners so they transferred them out, removed the locks and made it Marine berthing. So the place was unsafe for prisoners but just dandy for Marines, that told me exactly where the powers that be had us on the food chain...


The fact that you could get out easily at any time--nothing but a bungee cord holding the door shut, right?--probably made the building a lot safer to inhabit than it was when the doors locked from the outside. Fire, flood, earthquake, failure of the ventilation system, whatever, every marine gets up and leaves in a matter of minutes. Doesn't work that way with prisoners.
 
2012-10-27 03:52:02 PM  

Repo Man: MrHelpful: Repo Man: The_Original_Roxtar: WAAAAAAH, I JOINED A GANG AND ROBBED PEOPLE, ASSAULTED PEOPLE, AND SOLD DRUGS OF MY OWN FREE WILL AND NOW THEY WON'T LET ME LEAVE THIS PRISON! WAAAAAAH

zero
farks
given

Stupid kid steals a car, get sent up to do hard time in one of our criminal factories. Serves his time, is released, breaks into your apartment, rapes your girlfriend in front of you, and kills you both. Doesn't give a fark. He learned some things in the joint you see, and one of them was that human life has no value at all. But you're ok with that.

Wow. Overwrought rhetoric much? Based on your logic, no one should go to jail because it will just turn them into murdering rapists.

Or maybe a system that doesn't just put those who can be salvaged in with those who cannot. Or any number of the reforms that could easily be instituted to do all that we are able to make incarceration something that actually improves things, rather than making them worse. But if you are happy with the idea of sending in a kid who made a stupid mistake, and releasing an animal who will kill you for looking at him funny without a second thought, our present system is for you.


I realize you need to believe that most people who go in are "kids who make stupid mistakes" and those who come out are "animals who will kill everyone" however such is not the case. Sorry to break your bubble.
 
2012-10-27 03:52:55 PM  

NFA: These groups exist to protect their members when they sell drugs, steal, rob, burglarize, rape, murder, kidnap, hold and sell sex slaves.


It is a little bit more complicated than that. Violent gangs routinely identify the dudes who have no record. They then force these guys to join the Army or the Marine Corps. Having no record, they get in and do their time in infantry. After their time is up, they go back home and train their bros on military tactics.

Imagine, man, your backyard gang is Army-strong. It's free training for anyone who wants it.
 
2012-10-27 03:53:27 PM  

Repo Man: Or maybe a system that doesn't just put those who can be salvaged in with those who cannot.


That's actually a good idea... so... like... different levels of prison. Where we try to keep the dangerous and incorrigible in certain prisons where we have heightened security... more and taller fences... less inmate freedoms... that kinda thing. Then something at the other end for non-violent and first offender types where they can take classes... even do work outside the prison to learn a skill.

You should write a letter dude... that is a farking excellent idea.
 
2012-10-27 03:54:41 PM  

omgwtfetc: MrHelpful: charmbomb: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 850x511]

Hope they are careful about which of these fine upstanding young men get released.

I see you are trolling.

A good friend of mine farked up and went to jail. Not a bad kid, just was in a bad way and got caught with a friend with drugs. His friend threw him under the bus for bigger shiat so that he could get off lighter. My friend went in a misguided kid that made a mistake, and came out looking like those guys and had a far bigger view of the world of crime. People learn to be dregs of society in prison, because that's what you have to do to get by.

It's quite amazing how everyone has a story. It's never their fault. And even if it is, well, it's not. And if you disagree, you're trolling. Brilliant!

It's a lot easier to just assume everyone gets exactly what they deserve, right?


Frankly, it's been my experience in life, that's exactly what happens. It's called karma. You should try it some time.
 
2012-10-27 03:59:27 PM  
From another thread, why prisons are overcrowded:
sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net
www.prisonpolicy.org
motherjones.com
 
2012-10-27 04:00:02 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Repo Man: Or maybe a system that doesn't just put those who can be salvaged in with those who cannot.

That's actually a good idea... so... like... different levels of prison. Where we try to keep the dangerous and incorrigible in certain prisons where we have heightened security... more and taller fences... less inmate freedoms... that kinda thing. Then something at the other end for non-violent and first offender types where they can take classes... even do work outside the prison to learn a skill.

You should write a letter dude... that is a farking excellent idea.


let programmers work telecommute positions within prison
 
2012-10-27 04:03:20 PM  

Dr._Love: From another thread, why prisons are overcrowded:
[sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 472x279]
[www.prisonpolicy.org image 534x400]
[motherjones.com image 320x250]


Well, this is the kind of conspiratorial stupidity that makes any kind of discussion about the issue impossible. But keep on dreaming, dude.
 
2012-10-27 04:05:35 PM  
So let me get this straight, prison has become such a unpleasant place that we should stop sending criminals there?

Do you know that the recidivism rates for released prisoners in the United States of America is 60%

If it is so unpleasant, why do the criminals keep making the decision to commit crimes and put themselves back in such a hellish place?
 
2012-10-27 04:06:59 PM  

MrHelpful: omgwtfetc: MrHelpful: charmbomb: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 850x511]

Hope they are careful about which of these fine upstanding young men get released.

I see you are trolling.

A good friend of mine farked up and went to jail. Not a bad kid, just was in a bad way and got caught with a friend with drugs. His friend threw him under the bus for bigger shiat so that he could get off lighter. My friend went in a misguided kid that made a mistake, and came out looking like those guys and had a far bigger view of the world of crime. People learn to be dregs of society in prison, because that's what you have to do to get by.

It's quite amazing how everyone has a story. It's never their fault. And even if it is, well, it's not. And if you disagree, you're trolling. Brilliant!

It's a lot easier to just assume everyone gets exactly what they deserve, right?

Frankly, it's been my experience in life, that's exactly what happens. It's called karma. You should try it some time.


So can I go ahead and assume you're a white male of a mainstream religious denomination?
 
2012-10-27 04:08:33 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: Repo Man: Or any number of the reforms that could easily be instituted to do all that we are able to make incarceration something that actually improves things, rather than making them worse.

Like what?


Here's just one: eliminate prison rape. There is no excuse for prison rape. No one deserves it (no civilized country punishes people with rape), and if we as a country decided to, it could either be eliminated entirely, or made incredibly rare. It exists because we collectively tolerate it.
 
2012-10-27 04:10:21 PM  

mike0023: Nem Wan: The concept of liberty...

I don't know about concepts. I do know that my proposed solution will (1) rapidly reduce prison overcrowding, (2) remove violent criminals and thieves from our midst, (3) discourage other potential violent criminals and thieves. In my opinion, that would make our society better.


Deterrence is over-sold. People are not rational enough nor do they value their lives enough for that to work. There's a lot of untreated mental illness and addiction combined with people getting shiat on and pissed off. Make people more rational and give their lives more value and deterrence might be more relevant.

A good example of our system not being about deterrence: South Dakota recently executed Eric Robert. Apparently, he had a decent background, education and job, and did volunteer work. He was on his way to being every other middle-aged midwestern white guy. But he had a bad temper with women, acted on it, and committed a kidnapping that got him basically a life sentence. Nobody was killed, but essentially he ended his own life for all practical purposes. Rather than face decades doing nothing in prison, his anger, untreated, turned on the system and he decided to kill a prison guard and either escape or be executed. He didn't seem to care which. He pled guilty and asked to be executed as quickly as possible and the state obliged. Not only was the death penalty not a deterrent, it was his big ticket out here. A game of state-assisted suicide, with a guard's life as the achievement unlocked. Why did this have to happen? This was not a guy who was hopeless until whatever hidden mental illness he had motivated him to commit a serious crime, and our tough-on-crime, no-second-chances system said, "you're done, pal" and took all hope away. He was capable of reasoning and he reasoned he had no reason to put up with this shiat. He went to war to get himself out of prison, and apparently he won. I'm not saying go soft of kidnapping, but when someone is functional except in one area we should be looking at what psychiatry can do. Take crime seriously by seriously trying to FIX it. How much crime is because people's brains are broken in a treatable way? How much crime could be prevented by spending the same money productively? It seems like we almost enjoy making life harder than it has to be so we can get off on watching people go wrong.
 
2012-10-27 04:11:22 PM  

MrHelpful: Dr._Love: From another thread, why prisons are overcrowded:
[sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 472x279]
[www.prisonpolicy.org image 534x400]
[motherjones.com image 320x250]

Well, this is the kind of conspiratorial stupidity that makes any kind of discussion about the issue impossible. But keep on dreaming, dude.


You're so right, because monied interests can never have any kind of impact on how society functions,

How stupid of me to suggest that the people who are making a profit off of prisons use a portion of that money to perpetuate and expand the system that enriches them.

How short-sighted to imply that those whose paychecks are derived from the maintenance, incarceration, trail and care of said prisoners would be in moral and financial alignment with the people with and for whom they work.

What a silly, stupid person I must be.

You f*cking coincidence-theorist.
 
2012-10-27 04:12:54 PM  

alwaysjaded: coco ebert:

Well, you're kind of assuming that every country goes through similar phases towards a pinnacle of development, but that's not really true. Every society has its own trajectory. There's no guarantee that the U.S. will keep increasing its wealth and power simply because we're young.

I should have been a little bit clearer. I was mainly talking about the moral issues we're facing and the dying out of all the completely off the rails people we're seeing today. I didn't mean wealth and power cause that is always up in the air since no one can predict the future.


I see. And it's certainly true that no one can predict the future.
 
2012-10-27 04:13:19 PM  

MrHelpful: Dr._Love: From another thread, why prisons are overcrowded:
[sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 472x279]
[www.prisonpolicy.org image 534x400]
[motherjones.com image 320x250]

Well, this is the kind of conspiratorial stupidity that makes any kind of discussion about the issue impossible. But keep on dreaming, dude.


Yes, it isn't possible that judges could be corrupted.

As scandals from Wall Street to Washington roil the public trust, the justice system in Luzerne County, in the heart of Pennsylvania's struggling coal country, has also fallen prey to corruption. The county has been rocked by a kickback scandal involving two elected judges who essentially jailed kids for cash. Many of the children had appeared before judges without a lawyer. Video Watch the corruption scandal that is rocking Pennsylvania »

The nonprofit Juvenile Law Center in Philadelphia said Phillip is one of at least 5,000 children over the past five years who appeared before former Luzerne County President Judge Mark Ciavarella.

Ciavarella pleaded guilty earlier this month to federal criminal charges of fraud and other tax charges, according to the U.S. attorney's office. Former Luzerne County Senior Judge Michael Conahan also pleaded guilty to the same charges. The two secretly received more than $2.6 million, prosecutors said.

The judges have been disbarred and have resigned from their elected positions. They agreed to serve 87 months in prison under their plea deals. Ciavarella and Conahan did not return calls, and their attorneys told CNN that they have no comment.

Ciavarella, 58, along with Conahan, 56, corruptly and fraudulently "created the potential for an increased number of juvenile offenders to be sent to juvenile detention facilities," federal court documents alleged. Children would be placed in private detention centers, under contract with the court, to increase the head count. In exchange, the two judges would receive kickbacks.

Pennsylvania rocked by 'jailing kids for cash' scandal
 
2012-10-27 04:15:17 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-27 04:16:06 PM  

omgwtfetc: MrHelpful: omgwtfetc: MrHelpful: charmbomb: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 850x511]

Hope they are careful about which of these fine upstanding young men get released.

I see you are trolling.

A good friend of mine farked up and went to jail. Not a bad kid, just was in a bad way and got caught with a friend with drugs. His friend threw him under the bus for bigger shiat so that he could get off lighter. My friend went in a misguided kid that made a mistake, and came out looking like those guys and had a far bigger view of the world of crime. People learn to be dregs of society in prison, because that's what you have to do to get by.

It's quite amazing how everyone has a story. It's never their fault. And even if it is, well, it's not. And if you disagree, you're trolling. Brilliant!

It's a lot easier to just assume everyone gets exactly what they deserve, right?

Frankly, it's been my experience in life, that's exactly what happens. It's called karma. You should try it some time.

So can I go ahead and assume you're a white male of a mainstream religious denomination?


No you can't. But thanks for playing.
 
2012-10-27 04:19:59 PM  

kronicfeld: me texan: Do they deserve better than soldiers in basic training / boot camp?

This reeks of "Waterboarding isn't torture because SEALS are waterboarded as part of their training."


Um, no it doesn't. Seemed like a perfectly valid observation and question to me.
 
2012-10-27 04:20:39 PM  

me texan: Looks about the same as my barracks in basic training, except they have more freedoms apparently. Do they deserve better than soldiers in basic training / boot camp?

/not subby


You did BCT for 10 years locked in a room with 100 other criminals? Your BCT experience was different from mine. I only did 9 weeks, and we got to go outside and do line dancing....they called it D&C...and shoot things, but it was only 9 weeks, not 5,10,20,60 years.
 
2012-10-27 04:21:35 PM  
GOPers love this. Let's hear it for "for profit" prison system. Remember, the true enemy of America is your GOP neighbor.
 
2012-10-27 04:24:03 PM  

MrHelpful: omgwtfetc: MrHelpful: charmbomb: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 850x511]

Hope they are careful about which of these fine upstanding young men get released.

I see you are trolling.

A good friend of mine farked up and went to jail. Not a bad kid, just was in a bad way and got caught with a friend with drugs. His friend threw him under the bus for bigger shiat so that he could get off lighter. My friend went in a misguided kid that made a mistake, and came out looking like those guys and had a far bigger view of the world of crime. People learn to be dregs of society in prison, because that's what you have to do to get by.

It's quite amazing how everyone has a story. It's never their fault. And even if it is, well, it's not. And if you disagree, you're trolling. Brilliant!

It's a lot easier to just assume everyone gets exactly what they deserve, right?

Frankly, it's been my experience in life, that's exactly what happens. It's called karma. You should try it some time.


As you are apparently too lazy to click:

A giant amount of research has been done since his studies, and most psychologists have come to the same conclusion: You want the world to be fair, so you pretend it is.

"Zick Rubin of Harvard University and Letitia Anne Peplau of UCLA have conducted surveys to examine the characteristics of people with strong beliefs in a just world. They found that people who have a strong tendency to believe in a just world also tend to be more religious, more authoritarian, more conservative, more likely to admire political leaders and existing social institutions, and more likely to have negative attitudes toward underprivileged groups. To a lesser but still significant degree, the believers in a just world tend to 'feel less of a need to engage in activities to change society or to alleviate plight of social victims.'"

The Just-World Fallacy
 
2012-10-27 04:24:14 PM  
www.arizonamedicalmarijuanablog.com
Gary Johnson
www.tokeofthetown.com
End the war on drugs.
Clemency for incarcerated or paroled non-violent drug offenders.
The extra resources can go into rehabilitation of those remaining incarcerated or paroled.
Ancillary crime rates will drop when drugs are decriminalized.
 
2012-10-27 04:27:24 PM  

JerkyMeat: Remember, the true enemy of America is your GOP neighbor.


Liberals are scary...
 
2012-10-27 04:28:48 PM  

Repo Man: MrHelpful: Dr._Love: From another thread, why prisons are overcrowded:
[sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 472x279]
[www.prisonpolicy.org image 534x400]
[motherjones.com image 320x250]

Well, this is the kind of conspiratorial stupidity that makes any kind of discussion about the issue impossible. But keep on dreaming, dude.

Yes, it isn't possible that judges could be corrupted.

As scandals from Wall Street to Washington roil the public trust, the justice system in Luzerne County, in the heart of Pennsylvania's struggling coal country, has also fallen prey to corruption. The county has been rocked by a kickback scandal involving two elected judges who essentially jailed kids for cash. Many of the children had appeared before judges without a lawyer. Video Watch the corruption scandal that is rocking Pennsylvania »

The nonprofit Juvenile Law Center in Philadelphia said Phillip is one of at least 5,000 children over the past five years who appeared before former Luzerne County President Judge Mark Ciavarella.

Ciavarella pleaded guilty earlier this month to federal criminal charges of fraud and other tax charges, according to the U.S. attorney's office. Former Luzerne County Senior Judge Michael Conahan also pleaded guilty to the same charges. The two secretly received more than $2.6 million, prosecutors said.

The judges have been disbarred and have resigned from their elected positions. They agreed to serve 87 months in prison under their plea deals. Ciavarella and Conahan did not return calls, and their attorneys told CNN that they have no comment.

Ciavarella, 58, along with Conahan, 56, corruptly and fraudulently "created the potential for an increased number of juvenile offenders to be sent to juvenile detention facilities," federal court documents alleged. Children would be placed in private detention centers, under contract with the court, to increase the head count. In exchange, the two judges would receive kickbacks.
Pennsylvania rocked by 'jailing kids for ca ...


I'm sure there are corrupt judges. And I'm just as sure they're an extremely small minority. What Dr. Love is doing is stating the whole prison system is corrupt and akin to slavery. That's what's so stupid about this. And did you even read the article you linked to? The first example in the story is of a 14 year old who, gasp, was sentenced to a youth detention center and then was taken from his mommy and sent to a "school for troubled teens" for nine months. Something tells me there is a LOT more to that particular story than a "corrupt" judge.
 
2012-10-27 04:29:34 PM  
Yes, the average pot smoker tossed into jail has a body completely covered in tattoos...LOL.

In California good luck finding a cop who will bust someone for smoking pot. Our prisons are still full of scumbags.

The drug war should be ended, but don't think for a minute that these people are all upstanding citizens, who just happened to be caught up...and then decided to have their entire bodies covered in prison tats.

Our society has basically dropped the whole concept of lower/working class people having any morals. I don't blame those folks - they are just following what society teaches them. "do whatever you want! no judgement. no shame. In fact, being a gansta is cool!"

You know, I really shouldn't say "working" class because most of the scumbags don't work. There are plenty of lower class people who do work, and they are the guys who woke up one day with a girlfriend pregnant and instead of just bailing, they find a way to make it work for their kids. I have full respect for those guys. In fact, they need MORE respect from society. But nobody writes rap songs about busting their ass at two jobs so the family has food on their table that doesn't come from Uncle Sam.
 
2012-10-27 04:29:46 PM  

GAT_00: Generation_D: And I'm supposed to care, why exactly

How can prison rehabilitate in conditions like that? You do realize that's what prison sentences are supposed to do, right?


Wrong. The "convicted people are scum" crowd don't give a sh*t whether people are "rehabilitated", they just want the state to appease their twisted sense of "justice" by punishing those who may have broken the law.
This belief is most prominent in those who get boners when someone mentions the death penalty... putting someone to death isn't going to bring their victim back, it's simply a means of revenge against that person sanctioned by the state.


EnderX: So let me get this straight, prison has become such a unpleasant place that we should stop sending criminals there?

Do you know that the recidivism rates for released prisoners in the United States of America is 60%

If it is so unpleasant, why do the criminals keep making the decision to commit crimes and put themselves back in such a hellish place?


Because for some of them, with no possibility of a job or a life with any sense of normality, prison could actually be a more attractive alternative. This may be difficult to understand for someone who has never been convicted of a crime, but my brother has worked for the local department of corrections for over 20 years, and has to deal with people like this every day. He sees them back again and again, and the main reason is that society doesn't want them, even after they have served their time. They have no where else to be.

Even with all the advantages the average non-convicted citizen has, it's still a b*tch out here. Trying to find a job that pays enough to live on, a place to live with no credit record, and so on is tough for anyone... now add to that a felony conviction and your chances just went from 50/50 to "you gotta be sh*ttin' me!"
 
2012-10-27 04:30:25 PM  

MrHelpful: omgwtfetc: MrHelpful: omgwtfetc: MrHelpful: charmbomb: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 850x511]

Hope they are careful about which of these fine upstanding young men get released.

I see you are trolling.

A good friend of mine farked up and went to jail. Not a bad kid, just was in a bad way and got caught with a friend with drugs. His friend threw him under the bus for bigger shiat so that he could get off lighter. My friend went in a misguided kid that made a mistake, and came out looking like those guys and had a far bigger view of the world of crime. People learn to be dregs of society in prison, because that's what you have to do to get by.

It's quite amazing how everyone has a story. It's never their fault. And even if it is, well, it's not. And if you disagree, you're trolling. Brilliant!

It's a lot easier to just assume everyone gets exactly what they deserve, right?

Frankly, it's been my experience in life, that's exactly what happens. It's called karma. You should try it some time.

So can I go ahead and assume you're a white male of a mainstream religious denomination?

No you can't. But thanks for playing.


Then what is it that gives you so much confidence that the world is just and equitable?
 
2012-10-27 04:31:46 PM  

Repo Man: Here's just one: eliminate prison rape. There is no excuse for prison rape. No one deserves it (no civilized country punishes people with rape), and if we as a country decided to, it could either be eliminated entirely, or made incredibly rare. It exists because we collectively tolerate it.


We don't tolerate it. Just how big of a problem do you this it is?

Unless you keep everyone in shackles all the time or isolated in cells there's a risk of bad things happening. There are a lot of bad people in prison.
 
2012-10-27 04:34:19 PM  

EnderX: So let me get this straight, prison has become such a unpleasant place that we should stop sending criminals there?

Do you know that the recidivism rates for released prisoners in the United States of America is 60%

If it is so unpleasant, why do the criminals keep making the decision to commit crimes and put themselves back in such a hellish place?


In Norway, with its 21-year-max rehabilitation system, recidivism is 20%. They fix people and they stay fixed.

Americans identify with punishment more than healing. If we believe criminals are irredeemably bad we can believe we who are not them are incorruptible and entitled. Admitting other people are similar but for quantifiable and mostly adjustable circumstances is offensive.
 
2012-10-27 04:34:42 PM  

omgwtfetc: MrHelpful: omgwtfetc: MrHelpful: omgwtfetc: MrHelpful: charmbomb: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 850x511]

Hope they are careful about which of these fine upstanding young men get released.

I see you are trolling.

A good friend of mine farked up and went to jail. Not a bad kid, just was in a bad way and got caught with a friend with drugs. His friend threw him under the bus for bigger shiat so that he could get off lighter. My friend went in a misguided kid that made a mistake, and came out looking like those guys and had a far bigger view of the world of crime. People learn to be dregs of society in prison, because that's what you have to do to get by.

It's quite amazing how everyone has a story. It's never their fault. And even if it is, well, it's not. And if you disagree, you're trolling. Brilliant!

It's a lot easier to just assume everyone gets exactly what they deserve, right?

Frankly, it's been my experience in life, that's exactly what happens. It's called karma. You should try it some time.

So can I go ahead and assume you're a white male of a mainstream religious denomination?

No you can't. But thanks for playing.

Then what is it that gives you so much confidence that the world is just and equitable?


Are you honestly suggesting that the only people who think the world is "just and equitable" are white religious guys? Wow.
 
2012-10-27 04:35:34 PM  
The first example in the story is of a 14 year old who, gasp, was sentenced to a youth detention center and then was taken from his mommy and sent to a "school for troubled teens" for nine months. Something tells me there is a LOT more to that particular story than a "corrupt" judge.

Sentenced to a private facility by a judge who has since been convicted of receiving kickbacks for sentencing kids to private facilities. This is a blatant illustration of the conflict of interest inherent in for profit prisons/detention centers.
 
2012-10-27 04:38:08 PM  

Nem Wan: If we believe criminals are irredeemably bad we can believe we who are not them are incorruptible and entitled. Admitting other people are similar but for quantifiable and mostly adjustable circumstances is offensive.


Liberal BS.
 
2012-10-27 04:40:16 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Has anyone pointed out yet that JAIL and PRISON are not the same thing?

Way to go writer.


Exactly. Not sure why a picture from a county jail was included in an article about prison overcrowding. Granted jails have overcrowding too, but most inmates have yet to be convicted of a crime.
 
2012-10-27 04:41:25 PM  
I still can't get my head around the dichotomy that people who highly value freedom think that others who participate in activities which affect no one but themselves should be sent to prison.

But then I've never been good at doublethink, which is one of the reasons I'm not conservative.
 
2012-10-27 04:42:01 PM  
The majority of the people in those photos would vote for Democrats.

If they could vote.

//Make of that what you will...

///I'm just sayin'
 
2012-10-27 04:43:25 PM  

mike0023: Nem Wan: If we believe criminals are irredeemably bad we can believe we who are not them are incorruptible and entitled. Admitting other people are similar but for quantifiable and mostly adjustable circumstances is offensive.

Liberal BS.


And... how?
 
2012-10-27 04:43:30 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Repo Man: Or maybe a system that doesn't just put those who can be salvaged in with those who cannot.

That's actually a good idea... so... like... different levels of prison. Where we try to keep the dangerous and incorrigible in certain prisons where we have heightened security... more and taller fences... less inmate freedoms... that kinda thing. Then something at the other end for non-violent and first offender types where they can take classes... even do work outside the prison to learn a skill.

You should write a letter dude... that is a farking excellent idea.


Don't they already have those? In theory, at least?. Or were you being facetious?
 
2012-10-27 04:43:52 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: Repo Man: Here's just one: eliminate prison rape. There is no excuse for prison rape. No one deserves it (no civilized country punishes people with rape), and if we as a country decided to, it could either be eliminated entirely, or made incredibly rare. It exists because we collectively tolerate it.

We don't tolerate it. Just how big of a problem do you this it is?

Unless you keep everyone in shackles all the time or isolated in cells there's a risk of bad things happening. There are a lot of bad people in prison.


If we don't tolerate it, then why is it so common?

The Bureau of Justice Statistics confirmed this human rights crisis last month. It says that nearly one in 10 prisoners report having been raped or sexually assaulted by other inmates, staff or both.

That's why the release of a separate report by the National Prison Rape Elimination Commission, which was created by Congress in 2003, is so important. It challenges our society to take seriously a problem that has ruined many lives.

The website of the health and human rights organization Just Detention International (JDI) tells some of the inmates' troubling stories.

"While I was in an Arkansas state prison, I was raped by at least 27 different inmates over a nine-month period," said Bryson Martel Spruce, a bisexual former inmate. "I don't have to tell you that it was the worst nine months of my life."

Spruce contracted HIV as a result of the attacks. "Standards are needed to protect people like me," he said before he died in 2010.


USA Today, Nightmare of prison rape
 
2012-10-27 04:45:11 PM  

Nem Wan: In Norway, with its 21-year-max rehabilitation system, recidivism is 20%. They fix people and they stay fixed.


Maybe they aren't as "broken" when they go in. Are they better educated, able to find gainful employment when the come out?


The most successful programs that keep people from re-offending are jobs programs. Unfortunately the days are gone when someone with on high-school diploma or less can get out of jail and find a job that will pay a decent wage. And since they pretty much do background checks for even the most menial jobs these days someone with a record is going to be hard pressed to turn his life around even if he is willing. And when they are offered jobs, like picking crops most of them quit.
 
2012-10-27 04:45:17 PM  

Nem Wan: mike0023: Nem Wan: If we believe criminals are irredeemably bad we can believe we who are not them are incorruptible and entitled. Admitting other people are similar but for quantifiable and mostly adjustable circumstances is offensive.

Liberal BS.

And... how?


He couldn't understand the large words you were using, or the structure those words were placed in...
 
2012-10-27 04:46:07 PM  

mike0023: Nem Wan: If we believe criminals are irredeemably bad we can believe we who are not them are incorruptible and entitled. Admitting other people are similar but for quantifiable and mostly adjustable circumstances is offensive.

Liberal BS.


thats 2 "liberals are..." in one thread, guess what, I don't have to look at you any more. ignored. bye.
 
2012-10-27 04:46:53 PM  

rustypouch: I still can't get my head around the dichotomy that people who highly value freedom think that others who participate in activities which affect no one but themselves should be sent to prison. But then I've never been good at doublethink, which is one of the reasons I'm not conservative.


You say that conservatives are "people who highly value freedom." But then you say that you are not a conservative. Does that mean you do not value freedom? Or are you just confused?
 
2012-10-27 04:48:02 PM  
In PA there are a good number of people in for 3-6 months for missing child support payments because they were in for 3-6 months for missing child support payments.
Yard was often cancelled because the gym was full of cots and day rooms were usually off limits for the same reason.

The violent criminals and thieves were the vast minority.

touchers and rapists usually got immediate probation, so there's that.
 
2012-10-27 04:48:25 PM  

Bathia_Mapes: Pray 4 Mojo: Has anyone pointed out yet that JAIL and PRISON are not the same thing?

Way to go writer.

Exactly. Not sure why a picture from a county jail was included in an article about prison overcrowding. Granted jails have overcrowding too, but most inmates have yet to be convicted of a crime.


Bathia_Mapes: Pray 4 Mojo: Has anyone pointed out yet that JAIL and PRISON are not the same thing?

Way to go writer.

Exactly. Not sure why a picture from a county jail was included in an article about prison overcrowding. Granted jails have overcrowding too, but most inmates have yet to be convicted of a crime.


This is why:

Ordered by the United States Supreme Court to reduce severe overcrowding in its prisons, California began redirecting low-level offenders to local jails last October in a shift called realignment. Its prison population, the nation's largest, has since fallen by more than 16 percent to 120,000 from 144,000; it must be reduced to 110,000 by next June.

Counties with already tight budgets are scrambling to house the influx of newcomers in facilities that were never designed to accommodate inmates serving long sentences, like a man who began serving 15 years for fraud recently in the Fresno jail.

In California, County Jails Face Bigger Load
 
2012-10-27 04:51:31 PM  

Generation_D: mike0023: Nem Wan: If we believe criminals are irredeemably bad we can believe we who are not them are incorruptible and entitled. Admitting other people are similar but for quantifiable and mostly adjustable circumstances is offensive.

Liberal BS.

thats 2 "liberals are..." in one thread, guess what, I don't have to look at you any more. ignored. bye.


Keep reinforcing that bubble!
 
2012-10-27 04:52:22 PM  

Repo Man: The first example in the story is of a 14 year old who, gasp, was sentenced to a youth detention center and then was taken from his mommy and sent to a "school for troubled teens" for nine months. Something tells me there is a LOT more to that particular story than a "corrupt" judge.

Sentenced to a private facility by a judge who has since been convicted of receiving kickbacks for sentencing kids to private facilities. This is a blatant illustration of the conflict of interest inherent in for profit prisons/detention centers.


What about the "not for profilt" prisons which most are? Oh, wait, I know...they're ALL for profit because of the "industrial prison complex", right? Sheesh.
 
2012-10-27 04:55:25 PM  

mike0023: Generation_D: mike0023: Nem Wan: If we believe criminals are irredeemably bad we can believe we who are not them are incorruptible and entitled. Admitting other people are similar but for quantifiable and mostly adjustable circumstances is offensive.

Liberal BS.

thats 2 "liberals are..." in one thread, guess what, I don't have to look at you any more. ignored. bye.

Keep reinforcing that bubble!


You too!
 
2012-10-27 04:58:54 PM  
Awwww poor cwiminuls.

You broke the law. You don't get to use it anymore.
 
2012-10-27 04:59:23 PM  

Repo Man: If we don't tolerate it, then why is it so common?


It's not when you look at the numbers. For certain groups, homosexuals, and women, it is much higher.
 
2012-10-27 05:00:03 PM  

MrHelpful: Oh, wait, I know...they're ALL for profit because of the "industrial prison complex", right? Sheesh.


So, serious question, why do you dismiss this as it's some kind of laughable joke? Are you seriously implying there isn't a lot of damned money in the corrections business?
 
2012-10-27 05:02:45 PM  
Pribar
my "room" was a 6x8 cell with no lock on the heavy steel door and a bungie cord holding it shut. I asked wtf was up and was told that it used to be the brig, but the Inspector General had ruled it unsafe for prisoners so they transferred them out, removed the locks and made it Marine berthing. So the place was unsafe for prisoners but just dandy for Marines, that told me exactly where the powers that be had us on the food chain...

Well, there's unsafe as in "health hazards" or "the place is breaking down",
unsafe as in "the room size will work for one person staying for a week, but not for three persons staying for a year" and
unsafe as in "keep people who don't want to be there from escaping or hurting themselves or someone else".
 
2012-10-27 05:04:08 PM  
The people who shout most loudly about living in a free society are always the ones happiest to see as many of their fellow citizens in jail. I had a girl who worked for me at the store I managed, she'd been convicted for shoplifting when she was 13, then pumped gas not realizing her debit card had expired. I came to pay her ten bucks, but the cops were called by then and had already charged her for theft. She was sentenced to three years in the Nebraska women's prison. The gas station owner just wanted to make someone's life unpleasant. Teenagers regularly go to buy their beer there, and sure enough he was caught selling to a minor. He's in the paper the next day saying how it was entrapment and that 'Merca ain't no free country anymore.
 
2012-10-27 05:05:32 PM  

TsukasaK: MrHelpful: Oh, wait, I know...they're ALL for profit because of the "industrial prison complex", right? Sheesh.

So, serious question, why do you dismiss this as it's some kind of laughable joke? Are you seriously implying there isn't a lot of damned money in the corrections business?


I'm seriously implying that none of this rises to the level of a conspiracy that some people (thankfully a very small number) seem to think it does.
 
2012-10-27 05:08:03 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: Repo Man: If we don't tolerate it, then why is it so common?

It's not when you look at the numbers. For certain groups, homosexuals, and women, it is much higher.


So gays and women who are subjected to unconsensual sex are skewing the numbers? Because we should only worry about about straight men being subjected to unwanted homosexual sex?

These people are in prison/jail. Every aspect of their lives is supposed to be under control of the facility in which they are housed. If someone commits a crime, we expect that person to serve their sentence. As a society, we have an obligation to make sure that they are not subjected to sexual enslavement when they are doing so. If we decided to, resources could be committed that would make it very rare. Or we could continue with the status quo, where guards sometimes use it as a tool for discipline.
 
2012-10-27 05:08:56 PM  

MrHelpful: TsukasaK: MrHelpful: Oh, wait, I know...they're ALL for profit because of the "industrial prison complex", right? Sheesh.

So, serious question, why do you dismiss this as it's some kind of laughable joke? Are you seriously implying there isn't a lot of damned money in the corrections business?

I'm seriously implying that none of this rises to the level of a conspiracy that some people (thankfully a very small number) seem to think it does.


It isn't a conspiracy; it's right out in the open, plain for all to see.
 
2012-10-27 05:09:35 PM  

r1niceboy: The people who shout most loudly about living in a free society are always the ones happiest to see as many of their fellow citizens in jail.


I don't see an inconsistency. One's freedom can be impinged upon by the government (through taxes, regulations, etc.) or by criminals. Both pose a danger to freedom, both should be kept in check.
 
2012-10-27 05:10:51 PM  

TsukasaK: MrHelpful: Oh, wait, I know...they're ALL for profit because of the "industrial prison complex", right? Sheesh.

So, serious question, why do you dismiss this as it's some kind of laughable joke? Are you seriously implying there isn't a lot of damned money in the corrections business?


They're kinda like red-light camera companies...
 
2012-10-27 05:11:46 PM  

CapeFearCadaver: ill.

You should write a letter dude... that is a farking excellent idea.

Don't they already have those? In theory, at least?. Or were you being facetious?


I was being a smart-arse... but I like your word better. Classy!
 
2012-10-27 05:12:05 PM  

PC LOAD LETTER: I truly don't farking care. Don't like it? Don't be a crim.


Or black.
 
2012-10-27 05:12:44 PM  

mike0023: rustypouch: I still can't get my head around the dichotomy that people who highly value freedom think that others who participate in activities which affect no one but themselves should be sent to prison. But then I've never been good at doublethink, which is one of the reasons I'm not conservative.

You say that conservatives are "people who highly value freedom." But then you say that you are not a conservative. Does that mean you do not value freedom? Or are you just confused?


That may have been poorly phrased.

Perhaps 'conservatives are people who claim to highly value freedom' is better. But then their actions don't agree with their words.

Also, valuing freedom is not exclusive to any one group. I could draw a Venn diagram, but those require a hint of education to understand.
 
2012-10-27 05:15:04 PM  

mike0023: r1niceboy: The people who shout most loudly about living in a free society are always the ones happiest to see as many of their fellow citizens in jail.

I don't see an inconsistency. One's freedom can be impinged upon by the government (through taxes, regulations, etc.) or by criminals. Both pose a danger to freedom, both should be kept in check.


This. Exactly this.

Can I mail you a beer or something?
 
2012-10-27 05:16:11 PM  
I am supposed to care about this why? Those deadbeat, don't give a fark, no life, good for nothing wart on the ass of society criminals don't even need all that they are getting now. Food, a shytter, and a cot, in a very dark cell is all they NEED!!. They are there for a reason, not a vacation.
 
2012-10-27 05:16:16 PM  
mike0023
rustypouch:
I still can't get my head around the dichotomy that people who highly value freedom think that others who participate in activities which affect no one but themselves should be sent to prison. But then I've never been good at doublethink, which is one of the reasons I'm not conservative.

You say that conservatives are "people who highly value freedom." But then you say that you are not a conservative. Does that mean you do not value freedom? Or are you just confused?


No, it just means you pretend not to understand basic logic (or you really don't).
 
2012-10-27 05:21:30 PM  

Repo Man: So gays and women who are subjected to unconsensual sex are skewing the numbers? Because we should only worry about about straight men being subjected to unwanted homosexual sex?


Yes they are skewing the numbers, and the numbers in the survey are much higher than similar surveys. I'm concerned about everyone but prison rape isn't turning all petty criminals into remorseless killing machines.
 
2012-10-27 05:34:59 PM  
MrHelpful
"What Dr. Love is doing is stating the whole prison system is corrupt and akin to slavery. That's what's so stupid about this."

Actually, i just said corruption and glad-handing were responsible for "why prisons were overcrowded." I have yet to be disabused of this notion - you have yet to link to any citation that would disprove or even alleviate this statement, you have yet to put forth a preponderance of logically-consistent philosophy why what I was saying is "conspiratorial stupidity".

Our prison system does treat people like slaves.
The expansion of that system is linked to the profit made by private incarceration and forced labor of same.
There manifestly are plentiful examples of corruption within that system.

What exactly do you not get here?