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(Daily Mail)   Out Of Sight, Out Of Mind: Uncompromising pictures from inside America's overcrowded prison system show the cramped lives lived by more than two million inmates   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 463
    More: Misc, u.s. prisons, federal prisons, state prisons, public space, prisons  
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19202 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Oct 2012 at 12:49 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-27 08:20:09 AM
Looks about the same as my barracks in basic training, except they have more freedoms apparently. Do they deserve better than soldiers in basic training / boot camp?

/not subby
 
2012-10-27 08:21:06 AM

me texan: Do they deserve better than soldiers in basic training / boot camp?


This reeks of "Waterboarding isn't torture because SEALS are waterboarded as part of their training."
 
2012-10-27 08:33:01 AM
I truly don't farking care. Don't like it? Don't be a crim.
 
2012-10-27 08:43:15 AM

PC LOAD LETTER: I truly don't farking care. Don't like it? Don't be a crim.


www.weirdotoys.com
 
2012-10-27 08:59:39 AM
Clearly the only solution is to double down on the war on drugs.
 
2012-10-27 09:06:49 AM

kronicfeld: me texan: Do they deserve better than soldiers in basic training / boot camp?

This reeks of "Waterboarding isn't torture because SEALS are waterboarded as part of their training."


The article, as was my point is about living conditions. Nice job obfuscating the point by essentially Godwinning the discussion.

Their living conditions appear to be on par with NORMAL military life for soldiers in basic training and I have no problem with that. 

/Lighten up, Francis
 
2012-10-27 09:40:28 AM
Those rows and rows of bunk beds look pretty powder-keggy to me.
 
2012-10-27 09:48:57 AM

me texan: Looks about the same as my barracks in basic training, except they have more freedoms apparently. Do they deserve better than soldiers in basic training / boot camp?

/not subby


Basic training lasts 6-8 weeks? It's designed to instill discipline and whip new recruits to the military into shape and there's little fear that the person in the next bunk is going to rape, stab or just plain beat the shiat out of you for whatever reason or even no reason.

And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.

It would be interesting to get the perspective of people who had both been through boot camp and a prison like this. I've not been to either one, but if you gave me a choice of a prison as pictured or boot camp, I think I'd take boot camp.
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2012-10-27 09:53:08 AM
Seeing at all those tattooed gang members who are likely there because they're too violent to be on the streets, DID NOT elicit ANY compassion from me.

In fact my thought is that we need to streamline executions for all known violent gang members. Simply belonging to a violent gang should warrant the death penalty. These groups exist to protect their members when they sell drugs, steal, rob, burglarize, rape, murder, kidnap, hold and sell sex slaves. I say we as a nation stop being a bunch of pussies and begin to systematically wipe out this growing criminal paradigm. If you don't think it's a growing problem in the US, go live in Juarez Mexico and see what our future holds.
 
2012-10-27 09:57:07 AM

Happy Hours: And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.


Last I checked, so is the decision to rob, stab and kill people.
 
2012-10-27 10:15:42 AM

me texan: Happy Hours: And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.

Last I checked, so is the decision to rob, stab and kill people.


Exactly, fark em.
 
2012-10-27 10:25:31 AM
Ugh.

This reminds me of a moment from last weekend when a few of us women from church were talking to another member (who is an emigrant from Kenya). She was describing the prison conditions, which were appalling, and then a dyed-in-the-wool Republican spoke up and said "Is that a deterrent?"

The poor woman had to fumble to explain to this slightly hard-of-hearing soul that the law enforcement office is corrupt through and through, which I eventually summarized for her as "There's not much connection between who's actually guilty and who goes to jail."
 
2012-10-27 10:47:26 AM

Happy Hours: And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.


me texan: Last I checked, so is the decision to rob, stab and kill people.


Aaaaaand we're done here.
 
2012-10-27 10:51:53 AM

me texan: Happy Hours: And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.

Last I checked, so is the decision to rob, stab and kill people.


Lol, that's funny how you think most people are in jail for violent crimes.
 
2012-10-27 10:55:45 AM
USA: All the justice you can afford.
 
2012-10-27 10:57:19 AM

Happy Hours: It would be interesting to get the perspective of people who had both been through boot camp and a prison like this. I've not been to either one, but if you gave me a choice of a prison as pictured or boot camp, I think I'd take boot camp.


On that Lockdown show, when they did Sheriff Joe's prison, I vaguely remember that one of the inmates they interviewed from Tent City had served in Iraq. I believe he said it was tremendously worse in prison.
 
2012-10-27 11:07:12 AM
Ah, I see the 'criminals are subhuman' crowd is already here.
 
2012-10-27 11:09:23 AM
That's exactly what the tanks looked like in Harris County. I was in medical which was a tank that had 8 bunks per cell and there was 7 cells. And there was usually 4 extra people on the floor in the cells, not to mention all the people in the day room and near the showers. At one point, it was so bad you couldn't walk to the tables without stepping over someone. People were signing for their time as fast as they could just so they could get transferred to state or TDCJ. It was just a tightly packed warehouse.

Once I got moved to the trustee tank, things drastically improved. Lots more room and a few perks, plus we got to work outside mowing the grass all over Houston. I'm willing to bet a lot of those pictures were Gen Pop, probably 2 years or less. When I got moved to TDCJ, got a job at the library as soon as possible just so I wouldn't be in that mess. It was just a big warehouse type room but we had a little personal area around our beds separated with 3 foot high metal walls but it was a luxury in there.

I can't tell you what can be done about it except decriminalizing a lot of drugs or at least lowering the punishment. Most of the people in there don't mind at all that they're locked up. Especially if they're a somebody in there. I saw so many people get let out and be right back within a few months. And talking to a lot of inmates, they either think it's just great that they don't have to worry about bills or food and the ones that want to try to fly right go back to the same situation that got them there to begin with. When I was let out, I cut off all contact with old friends and moved. It was extremely hard but I did it, and that was 3 years ago. Halfway houses help a little but getting back into society after doing that is a lot harder than people think. It's a whole different world in there but I'm sure people that have served in the military know what I'm talking about, since I was locked up with a lot of military guys who told me it was about the same except the military had more things for them to do. It's a really complicated situation that is going to take a fix on multiple levels. Guess we should look at how Europe and Japan do things, much like they did us in the 1900's.
 
2012-10-27 11:17:16 AM
And I'm supposed to care, why exactly
 
2012-10-27 11:17:53 AM

2wolves: USA: All the justice you can afford.


yep, just like every country anywhere ever. Don't like it? make money.
 
2012-10-27 11:19:55 AM

alwaysjaded: Halfway houses help a little but getting back into society after doing that is a lot harder than people think.


I cant begin to imagine how hard it is to get back into society. That being said, it sounds like you're moving in the right direction and I applaud you for it.

/agree with your points about decriminalization. War on Drugs has been a waste of time and money.
 
2012-10-27 11:20:31 AM

Generation_D: And I'm supposed to care, why exactly


How can prison rehabilitate in conditions like that? You do realize that's what prison sentences are supposed to do, right?
 
2012-10-27 11:20:50 AM
where's the photo gallery of the lives of their victims?

/it'll be nice when Romney takes office and our tax dollars will start supporting those who are working to enhance and better their lives.
 
2012-10-27 11:22:11 AM

alwaysjaded: That's exactly what the tanks looked like in Harris County. I was in medical which was a tank that had 8 bunks per cell and there was 7 cells. And there was usually 4 extra people on the floor in the cells, not to mention all the people in the day room and near the showers. At one point, it was so bad you couldn't walk to the tables without stepping over someone. People were signing for their time as fast as they could just so they could get transferred to state or TDCJ. It was just a tightly packed warehouse.

Once I got moved to the trustee tank, things drastically improved. Lots more room and a few perks, plus we got to work outside mowing the grass all over Houston. I'm willing to bet a lot of those pictures were Gen Pop, probably 2 years or less. When I got moved to TDCJ, got a job at the library as soon as possible just so I wouldn't be in that mess. It was just a big warehouse type room but we had a little personal area around our beds separated with 3 foot high metal walls but it was a luxury in there.

I can't tell you what can be done about it except decriminalizing a lot of drugs or at least lowering the punishment. Most of the people in there don't mind at all that they're locked up. Especially if they're a somebody in there. I saw so many people get let out and be right back within a few months. And talking to a lot of inmates, they either think it's just great that they don't have to worry about bills or food and the ones that want to try to fly right go back to the same situation that got them there to begin with. When I was let out, I cut off all contact with old friends and moved. It was extremely hard but I did it, and that was 3 years ago. Halfway houses help a little but getting back into society after doing that is a lot harder than people think. It's a whole different world in there but I'm sure people that have served in the military know what I'm talking about, since I was locked up with a lot of military guys who told me it was about the sam ...


Or, we can keep being America and doing things our own way. You can't vote any more, so you can't help change the system you know so much about. On the other hand, more than half of the population where you're from elects Republicans fairly often, and all they're interested in is making sure the prison population is kept high enough so their investments in prison contractors keep making money.

Til the voting public changes that, you're pretty much out of luck on "reform."

I doubt America will look anywhere for help, look at how we did TSA. Europe already had working systems, yet we went out and invented our own, which wound up being worse and less secure.

And got Chertoff paid, since his company owned the scanner contract for airports.

Crony Capitalism. When voting just isn't enough.

Also: Don't get arrested using drugs. Tough thing for some people. Society makes rules, and they're so unfair sometimes.
 
2012-10-27 11:23:54 AM
i963.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-27 11:24:43 AM

calbert: where's the photo gallery of the lives of their victims?

/it'll be nice when Romney takes office and our tax dollars will start supporting those who are working to enhance and better their lives.


Wouldn't hold your breath on the Romney thing there, tea bagger.

Nice concern on the victims though.
 
2012-10-27 11:34:10 AM

me texan:

I cant begin to imagine how hard it is to get back into society. That being said, it sounds like you're moving in the right direction and I applaud you for it.

/agree with your points about decriminalization. War on Drugs has been a waste of time and money.


Thanks. I had one thing going for me. My lawyer worked out a deal where I would do my time but wouldn't have a felony on my record. You got a felony on your record, game over. Can't do much of anything with one. When the lawyer was telling me about the offer, it was 4 months county or a year and 6 months of TDCJ plus shock probation which was 3 years of court every Monday, P.O. every Wednesday and groups 5 days a week and random drug tests 6 out of 7 days of the week. Everyone in the holding tank heard the deal and were all screaming at me to take the county time. I was about to sign and stopped and asked them all how bad had a felony on their record messed their lives up. Every single one of them said they were ruined. I signed for TDCJ. It was ABSOLUTE HELL staying in compliance but I did it.

Another point I wanted to add, there's another problem. Your court appointed lawyer is usually some guy fresh out of law school who has 8 other cases to work on just for that day. Throw in you've been living like cattle and a lawyer who just wants to close your file tells you to sign for probation and you get out that day. I saw a whole lot of people doing that who were destined to fail cause they were planning on getting high 30 minutes after being released.
 
2012-10-27 11:35:50 AM
One thing nobody here has asked is why we incarcerate so many more people than any other nation in the world.

Are people in the US that much more likely to be criminals?

Does every other country not punish crime that should be punished?

Anyone?
 
2012-10-27 11:38:47 AM
And meanwhile I'm listening to Victor Conte (Barry Bonds/Steroids) talk about the prison he was in. It was basically an athletic club. Everyone was playing tennis, basketball, even billiards. There were ZERO fences. For Christmas, inmates would walk out to the highway and their family would pick them up. Drugs were for sale. The female corrections officers made $30,000 a month as prostitutes.
 
2012-10-27 11:39:02 AM

Generation_D: : Or, we can keep being America and doing things our own way. You can't vote any more, so you can't help change the system you know so much about. On the other hand, more than half of the population where you're from elects Republicans fairly often, and all they're interested in is making sure the prison population is kept high enough so their investments in prison contractors keep making money.

Til the voting public changes that, you're pretty much out of luck on "reform."

I doubt America will look anywhere for help, look at how we did TSA. Europe already had working systems, yet we went out and invented our own, which wound up being worse and less secure.

And got Chertoff paid, since his company owned the scanner contract for airports.

Crony Capitalism. When voting just isn't enough.

Also: Don't get arrested using drugs. Tough thing for some people. Society makes rules, and they're so unfair sometimes.

I don't disagree with none of that. If the cities could combat the vast areas of small towns who vote for idiots, we would be better off. Our elections are usually pretty close. And yes, I've had zero interactions with cops since I stopped breaking the law. It was a hard lesson but I fought the law and the law won. Never again.

 
2012-10-27 11:45:09 AM
alwaysjaded

Consult Europe and Japan? But... but... that would involve acknowledging that America is not the greatest at everything we do!

/glad to hear you're doing better
 
2012-10-27 12:10:16 PM
you mean it's not like it is on TV?

img2-3.timeinc.net
 
2012-10-27 12:11:51 PM

coco ebert: alwaysjaded

Consult Europe and Japan? But... but... that would involve acknowledging that America is not the greatest at everything we do!

/glad to hear you're doing better


I sinerely believe that America will correct itself once there's a changing of the guard in our leadership. We're still a very young country compared to the rest of the world and we're going to have some growing pains. I always get amused by how our friends across the pond are so quick to tell us why we suck. Yea, like the countries over there never had any dark times. They've had longer to deal with them. Of course, we should learn from our elders but this country needs to stop thinking in the past. I swear these days, America is like a washed up ex-supermodel.

/ and thank you for the kind words.
 
2012-10-27 12:12:03 PM

Generation_D: Also: Don't get arrested using drugs. Tough thing for some people. Society makes rules, and they're so unfair sometimes.


And I'm going to ask again: how does our current prison system reform? Our prison system doesn't work, and I know that by one simple fact: the single greatest predictor of crime is past incarceration. If you go to prison you are more likely to commit a crime than you were before.

How is that good?
 
2012-10-27 12:14:38 PM

me texan: alwaysjaded: Halfway houses help a little but getting back into society after doing that is a lot harder than people think.

I cant begin to imagine how hard it is to get back into society. That being said, it sounds like you're moving in the right direction and I applaud you for it.

/agree with your points about decriminalization. War on Drugs has been a waste of time and money.


Au contraire. Its made the following categories quite a lot of money:

1) Police departments -- foreiture and siezure laws
2) Trial lawyers -- getting rich boys and girls out of jail
3) Prison industry -- Go to keep supply of prisoners up, got to build more private prisons. America fark yeah.
4) Medical industry -- make sure the more fun illegal drugs can't compete on a level playing field with the crappy modern drugs.
5) Security industry -- all those neat cop toys used to go after drug dealers -- drones, house sensors, flyovers in pot growing country, weapons and armored cars
6) Government. The DEA and its ever expanding mission and head count
7) Government 2 -- idiot politicians running on law and order platforms, promising to clean up crime which usually means go after people using drugs, or people selling drugs that wear colorful clothing and frighten people
8) The drug sellers themselves. If you don't die, you make bank, at least the ones do that run the organizations. These drug orgs pay bribes to cops and law enforcement. It is a fact.
9) Gun lobby / weapons industry: With drug crime, or the fear of it, rampant, got to make sure there's lots of gun sales all around, to worried homeowners, to conceal and carry vigilante dumbfarks like Zimmerman, to all the drug sellers themselves. Guns and ammo profits.
10) Alcohol industry. No legal competition from Pot or other low-risk drug taking.
11) Trial lawyers II: drunk driving edition. If all those drunk drivers were smoking weed instead, they would be home eating cheetos rather than out wrapping their car around a tree, being aggressive, and making stupid choices when drunk.
12) Sports industry. Do you honestly think a lot of pot smokers would give a crap about professional sports like drinkers do?
13) Gambling industry. Without drunks, who's gonna bet and lose millions a year?
14) Government III: Black ops / Black budget / CIA funding for drug ops. Billions have been sent down this rat hole. "Propping up the governments of Columbia and Peru."


So you see, illegal drugs are tightly woven into America's societal fabric. Just making them legal will never happen, at least not over night. Its been 40 years since quite a few of us have been saying the "War on Drugs" or what came before it were idiotic, wrongheaded, corrupt policies.

And yet...
 
2012-10-27 12:14:59 PM

alwaysjaded: coco ebert: alwaysjaded

Consult Europe and Japan? But... but... that would involve acknowledging that America is not the greatest at everything we do!

/glad to hear you're doing better

I sinerely believe that America will correct itself once there's a changing of the guard in our leadership. We're still a very young country compared to the rest of the world and we're going to have some growing pains. I always get amused by how our friends across the pond are so quick to tell us why we suck. Yea, like the countries over there never had any dark times. They've had longer to deal with them. Of course, we should learn from our elders but this country needs to stop thinking in the past. I swear these days, America is like a washed up ex-supermodel.

/ and thank you for the kind words.


Well, you're kind of assuming that every country goes through similar phases towards a pinnacle of development, but that's not really true. Every society has its own trajectory. There's no guarantee that the U.S. will keep increasing its wealth and power simply because we're young.
 
2012-10-27 12:16:21 PM

Generation_D: 2wolves: USA: All the justice you can afford.

yep, just like every country anywhere ever. Don't like it? make money.


You can't create a civil society through incarceration.
 
2012-10-27 12:24:01 PM
Oh, left out:

15) Medical industry II: All the phony rehab crap, from psychology to 12 steps to addiction studies. With drugs legal, there would be no court-mandated rehab.
16) Medical industry III: If users can get their hands on clean and well made drugs of choice, they quit OD'ing on crap. So less risk to the user, and less chance of an accidental death due to a dosage being wildly off.


I'm sure there's more. Point is, you can't just legalize drugs. Washington State is going to try, we're voting on Marijuana legalization with many strings attached and in many ways a crappy law. And it had to be a crappy law with strings attached or law enforcement would have never signed off on it. So you see whats happening here, rather than the "common sense" legalization argument, we're having to do things in stages, that takes years if not decades. Its already been decades. A whole bunch of us wanted legalization as far back as the 70s. Then what happened, Ronald farking Reagan happened, and funding drug wars in central and south america. Set the drug lords up great, kept the cheap cocaine flowing north, Miami Vice was a top 10 hit show. Oh yeah -

17) Entertainment industry. Who will be the villain in all those great movies if you get rid of drug cartels because drugs are now legal?? Don't think Hollywood isn't aware of where they make their money. Ready made story trope: Drug dealer / gang.
 
2012-10-27 12:25:49 PM

2wolves: Generation_D: 2wolves: USA: All the justice you can afford.

yep, just like every country anywhere ever. Don't like it? make money.

You can't create a civil society through incarceration.


Who said anything about creating a civil society? Drug users are already the ones that effed up badly enough to either kill someone over a drug deal, or get caught using because they couldn't control their own habit or use properly without getting caught or attracting attention to themselves.

I get it, you want to use, thats fine man, go ahead I have no problem with it.

But the rules say you are supremely effed if you use and get caught. So what do you do? Give in to poor impulse control, or learn to fit your vices around the current effed up legal system?

We all make our own choices.
 
2012-10-27 12:27:09 PM
One last thought on that.

What if everyone just quit using? Not nancy reagan just say no, but eff you current system. Quit buying drugs, quit drinking, quit using medical products you have a say in using.

Send the entire messed up substance seller empire a nice message, the current system in America is effed up badly, so the hell with all of you, we're all going to go straight edge from now on.

Except coffee. Jesus H I'd go to prison before giving up coffee.
 
2012-10-27 12:30:10 PM

Happy Hours: One thing nobody here has asked is why we incarcerate so many more people than any other nation in the world.

Are people in the US that much more likely to be criminals?


Because there's money to be made in locking people up for any little thing someone can think of.
 
2012-10-27 12:38:27 PM

coco ebert:

Well, you're kind of assuming that every country goes through similar phases towards a pinnacle of development, but that's not really true. Every society has its own trajectory. There's no guarantee that the U.S. will keep increasing its wealth and power simply because we're young.


I should have been a little bit clearer. I was mainly talking about the moral issues we're facing and the dying out of all the completely off the rails people we're seeing today. I didn't mean wealth and power cause that is always up in the air since no one can predict the future.
 
2012-10-27 12:43:09 PM

Generation_D: 2wolves: Generation_D: 2wolves: USA: All the justice you can afford.

yep, just like every country anywhere ever. Don't like it? make money.

You can't create a civil society through incarceration.

Who said anything about creating a civil society? Drug users are already the ones that effed up badly enough to either kill someone over a drug deal, or get caught using because they couldn't control their own habit or use properly without getting caught or attracting attention to themselves.

I get it, you want to use, thats fine man, go ahead I have no problem with it.

But the rules say you are supremely effed if you use and get caught. So what do you do? Give in to poor impulse control, or learn to fit your vices around the current effed up legal system?

We all make our own choices.


Not going to lose my clearance.

My point still stands.
 
2012-10-27 12:54:19 PM
img4-1.coastalliving.timeinc.net

They should nice-up the place like Martha Stewart did.
 
2012-10-27 12:54:54 PM

aimtastic: Those rows and rows of bunk beds look pretty powder-keggy to me.


Yeah. Now imagine if they were all zombies.
 
2012-10-27 12:56:28 PM

me texan: Happy Hours: And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.

Last I checked, so is the decision to rob, stab and kill people.


7 out of 10 prisoners(America) are in for non-violent offenses
 
2012-10-27 12:57:40 PM
What do the jails look like they put people in who can't afford their bills? Debtors prisons are already making a comeback and will lead to more overcrowding.
 
2012-10-27 12:59:56 PM

Happy Hours: And last I checked our military is still all volunteer.


So's prison.
 
2012-10-27 01:01:05 PM
Release all the non-violent drug offenders and prostitutes. Kill all the burglars, thieves, murders, rapists, and kid diddlers. Then there will be plenty of room to reform the drunk drivers and tax cheats.
 
2012-10-27 01:02:27 PM
I see the anti-"War on Drugs" crowd is here. "Waaa, if we just legalize drugs, the prisons would be at 10% capacity".
How about you quit using until that day comes chief? After a month, you may not want to pick up that joint or start sniffing coke up your nose. After they're legalized, you can go back to pretending illicit drugs aren't harmful for you.
 
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