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(Slate)   Who said it: a Christian conservative, or an Islamic fundamentalist?   (slate.com) divider line 239
    More: Scary, Islamic, Pennsylvania Senate, Indiana Senate, radical feminists, Missouri Senate, Islamic fundamentalists, social conservatives, Fundamentalist Christianity  
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9999 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Oct 2012 at 2:42 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-27 06:47:59 AM

Kurmudgeon: Alphax: He did what?

He blamed all religious for the crimes you have listed in pcizek's post.
If nothing else, it shows the dangers of blaming whole groups for the actions of invidiudals. The individuals hide within the group while the innocent are often punished instead. Then when the innocent are punished, others of their group get militant and the cycle continues.
/wash rinse repeat
.


Hiding like the religious leaders and politicians from TFA?
 
2012-10-27 06:55:43 AM

WorldCitizen: An American religious fundamentalist has a hell of a lot in common with an Iranian religious fundamentalist.


With the ( rather odd ) exception of the Fundie near-worship of the State of Israel, I would agree with you. Actually, I wonder how long that will last? (given how the history between Christians and Jews has been in the last 1000 years...)
 
2012-10-27 07:12:11 AM

log_jammin: pciszek: Why are you siding with them? If you dislike theocracy, shouldn't you become one of the "liberal Christians" that evangelicals despise?

How in the world is he siding with them if he's trying to point out their hypocrisy to them?


Self-identifying as an evangelical Christian while opposing the evangelicals' theocratic agenda makes as much sense as a gay organization endorsing Mitt Romney for president.  Link
 
2012-10-27 07:13:14 AM
I was raised to not say a word if I cant say anything nice but... all of these people should be destroyed.

/not religious in the least
//kiss my ass fundies
 
2012-10-27 07:13:21 AM
nmemkha:

All human systems eventually fail due to the failings of the human condition. We have the ability to create a world where everyone has a place to live and enough to eat, but not the will. We invariably let a tiny few of the most selfish and sociopathic among us to sequester the majority of the resources/wealth and leave everyone else to squabble over the crumbs. Maybe its natural for us to suffer in the service of our "betters".

If you want to be truly depressed, know that we can fark up swinging the other way as well. I just got back from visiting Cambodia, and I'm still sorta wound up on the topic, but the Khmer Rouge couldn't make everyone rich, and powerful, but they sure as hell could make everyone was a dirt-poor farmer. And so first they killed the rich, and then they killed the educated, and then they killed anyone associated with the above, and by the time it finally ended, you could denounce *anyone* to The Organization.

But hey, you didn't have to suffer in the service of one's "betters," as they had been buried in mass graves.

Not even going to start in on Myanmar tonight, but yeah, "re-education camps" still exist.
 
2012-10-27 07:18:14 AM

pciszek: Self-identifying as an evangelical Christian while opposing the evangelicals' theocratic agenda makes as much sense as a gay organization endorsing Mitt Romney for president. Link


No. not the same thing at all. A person can be religious and still understand why hypocrisy is bad, and that theocracies cannot be a democracy.
 
2012-10-27 07:24:33 AM

maxheck: [Cambodia] But hey, you didn't have to suffer in the service of one's "betters," as they had been buried in mass graves.


You most certainly did suffer in service of your "betters", unless you were one of those in the mass graves.

/Meet the new boss, same as the old boss
 
2012-10-27 07:28:30 AM

log_jammin: No. not the same thing at all. A person can be religious and still understand why hypocrisy is bad, and that theocracies cannot be a democracy.


Maybe, so long as they aren't one of the batshiat crazy flavors of religious. Hence my statement that someone who opposed the evangelicals' agenda but insisted on self-identifying as a Christian would have to be one of the so-called "liberal Christians" that the evangelicals despise. "Liberal Christian" doesn't necessarily refer to someone who is politically liberal, but is a label that the self-proclaimed "Real Christians" apply to any Christian who believes that the universe is more than 10,000 years old, or that the US Constitution does not establish the US as a Christian Nation, or that Muslims have as much right to build mosques as Christians have to build churches, etc.
 
2012-10-27 07:30:52 AM
Lee Jackson Beauregard:

maxheck: [Cambodia] But hey, you didn't have to suffer in the service of one's "betters," as they had been buried in mass graves.

You most certainly did suffer in service of your "betters", unless you were one of those in the mass graves.

/Meet the new boss, same as the old boss


You may be missing the point. In trying to make sure no one labored under their "betters" something like a third of a country was mass-murdered. The French revolution and their Egalite and Dr. Guillotine had nothing on this. And it was all through sophomoric idealism given power.
 
2012-10-27 07:32:39 AM
Can we just agree both are bad, and need to be eradicated from the face of the earth?

/fundamentalism of any flavor causes far more damage than the impetus they crusade against.
 
2012-10-27 07:34:34 AM

jake_lex: The ones that were more elegantly phrased I guessed were Islamic.


Actually it makes sense, while any idiot can pick up a Bible and preach, the expectation in Islam is that you go to school before you start spouting off and the schooling is a bit more comprehensive than what passes for schooling for many Bible thumper types.

pciszek: Self-identifying as an evangelical Christian while opposing the evangelicals' theocratic agenda makes as much sense as a gay organization endorsing Mitt Romney for president. Link


Actually the idea that evangelicals are hyper conservative is actually a recent development. Go back 60 years ago, even 50 years ago, and there were many people who identified as evangelical who were among the most liberal Christians around. The movement of evangelicals from being all over the map to being varying flavors of conservative is one of the more overlooked events in recent American history. Likewise the change among Baptists, from pretty broadly spread out to conservative and more conservative is another one. Though it's a little easier to get since a lot of it has to do with the Southern Baptist Convention and its changes during the 50s and 60s and after. Though that doesn't explain it all either, at least you can start there.
 
2012-10-27 07:34:46 AM

pciszek: log_jammin: No. not the same thing at all. A person can be religious and still understand why hypocrisy is bad, and that theocracies cannot be a democracy.

Maybe, so long as they aren't one of the batshiat crazy flavors of religious. Hence my statement that someone who opposed the evangelicals' agenda but insisted on self-identifying as a Christian would have to be one of the so-called "liberal Christians" that the evangelicals despise. "Liberal Christian" doesn't necessarily refer to someone who is politically liberal, but is a label that the self-proclaimed "Real Christians" apply to any Christian who believes that the universe is more than 10,000 years old, or that the US Constitution does not establish the US as a Christian Nation, or that Muslims have as much right to build mosques as Christians have to build churches, etc.


You're just bickering over a label. The important thing is someone that someone is actively pointing out bullshiat in a church somewhere, when they see bullshiat. and that's a good thing no matter what the person calls themselves.
 
2012-10-27 07:39:15 AM

MrSplifferton: Makh: Ha ha! I got 4/9 correct.

I guess I really can't tell.

kxs401: Imagine what they could do to us if they teamed up.

Exonmoble?

I got 4/9 also, and I'm married to a muslim woman, I thought I'd have an advantage...


I got 6/9 and my ex-husband is Muslim. And just for the record, my ex-husband never tried to indoctrinate me nor I him. I did not have to walk behind him or get his permission to leave the house. I cooked pork (mmmmmm....bacon) but he never ate it. I had dogs and the dogs were not allowered to jump on him (he had to be clean to pray). I could do whatever I wanted and I never needed his permission. The key was respect and understanding. However, I am not naive enough to think that if we were in a different country that the case would have been different. The rules of the land would prevail (if we had moved to Saudi Arabia or something).
 
2012-10-27 07:41:55 AM
BTW there are liberal Baptists still around.

What a liberal Baptist may look like

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-10-27 07:46:47 AM
Lee Jackson Beauregard:

maxheck: [Cambodia] But hey, you didn't have to suffer in the service of one's "betters," as they had been buried in mass graves.

You most certainly did suffer in service of your "betters", unless you were one of those in the mass graves.

/Meet the new boss, same as the old boss


Maybe I should explain better.

Your "betters" in terms of who had power over your being tortured or killed was pretty much *anyone.* That pretty girl who wouldn't have sex with you? Denounce her. The guy who got a better job than you? Denounce him. And they could do the same to you, and you'd end up in the killing fields yourself. Ta-dah! Class differences are certainly no longer a problem! What a solution!

The whole point of the revolution was that there were no "betters." There were just the more vicious.
 
2012-10-27 07:56:31 AM
4/9... not too surprising. I can't identify with any of these religious loons... not at all.
 
2012-10-27 08:00:12 AM

BronyMedic: Can we just agree both are bad, and need to be eradicated from the face of the earth?


I can't go along with that. Sometimes, the cure is worse than the disease...

www.davidstuff.com
 
2012-10-27 08:03:20 AM
Forbidden Doughnut:

BronyMedic: Can we just agree both are bad, and need to be eradicated from the face of the earth?

I can't go along with that. Sometimes, the cure is worse than the disease...


Don't make me break out my chart as to who really indulges in religious behavior...
 
2012-10-27 08:03:48 AM

Kurmudgeon: The individuals hide within the group while the innocent are often punished instead. Then when the innocent are punished, others of their group get militant and the cycle continues.
/wash rinse repeat
.


It would be nice if group members would address said individuals, then there would be no need for outsiders to feel as if they had to do it, which would prevent the militant response from the group to the outside interference.

log_jammin: The important thing is someone that someone is actively pointing out bullshiat in a church somewhere, when they see bullshiat. and that's a good thing no matter what the person calls themselves.


Well, it's a start.
 
2012-10-27 08:08:41 AM
7 out of 9.

I thought the quotes from Pat Buchanan and Rick Santorum were said by Islamic Fundamentalists.
 
2012-10-27 08:11:26 AM

geek_mars: It would be nice if group members would address said individuals, then there would be no need for outsiders to feel as if they had to do it, which would prevent the militant response from the group to the outside interference.


You want the religious to brawl with the meanies at church or something? Some people just want to spend a nice Sunday morning praying and eating cookies, man.
 
2012-10-27 08:11:52 AM

maxheck: nmemkha:

All human systems eventually fail due to the failings of the human condition. We have the ability to create a world where everyone has a place to live and enough to eat, but not the will. We invariably let a tiny few of the most selfish and sociopathic among us to sequester the majority of the resources/wealth and leave everyone else to squabble over the crumbs. Maybe its natural for us to suffer in the service of our "betters".

If you want to be truly depressed, know that we can fark up swinging the other way as well. I just got back from visiting Cambodia, and I'm still sorta wound up on the topic, but the Khmer Rouge couldn't make everyone rich, and powerful, but they sure as hell could make everyone was a dirt-poor farmer. And so first they killed the rich, and then they killed the educated, and then they killed anyone associated with the above, and by the time it finally ended, you could denounce *anyone* to The Organization.

But hey, you didn't have to suffer in the service of one's "betters," as they had been buried in mass graves.

Not even going to start in on Myanmar tonight, but yeah, "re-education camps" still exist.


I hear the cherries are ripe for picking this year.
 
2012-10-27 08:13:23 AM

maxheck: nmemkha:

All human systems eventually fail due to the failings of the human condition. We have the ability to create a world where everyone has a place to live and enough to eat, but not the will. We invariably let a tiny few of the most selfish and sociopathic among us to sequester the majority of the resources/wealth and leave everyone else to squabble over the crumbs. Maybe its natural for us to suffer in the service of our "betters".

If you want to be truly depressed, know that we can fark up swinging the other way as well. I just got back from visiting Cambodia, and I'm still sorta wound up on the topic, but the Khmer Rouge couldn't make everyone rich, and powerful, but they sure as hell could make everyone was a dirt-poor farmer. And so first they killed the rich, and then they killed the educated, and then they killed anyone associated with the above, and by the time it finally ended, you could denounce *anyone* to The Organization.

But hey, you didn't have to suffer in the service of one's "betters," as they had been buried in mass graves.

Not even going to start in on Myanmar tonight, but yeah, "re-education camps" still exist.


Also, it was no different. A tiny few did leave well off lives at the expense of the rest. The ideology and the implementation were wrong, not just the implementation.
 
2012-10-27 08:14:17 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Tarkus: There's a difference?

Hats


elsasblog.com 
www.gannett-cdn.com
Malala's hometown in the lush Swat Valley became the center of Taliban violence in Pakistan after the group pushed its way into power in 2007. Staunch opponents of female education, the Taliban terrorized students and teachers, bombed hundreds of schools and forced many others to close their doors to girls because of the risk.
 
2012-10-27 08:14:52 AM
I want to post this on my Facebook so badly, but it's just not worth it. It's the weekend, dammit.
 
2012-10-27 08:15:12 AM

Ilmarinen: G.I.R.B.: 4/9

Scary part?

I clicked randomly.

Somebody doesn't know how probabilities work.

Incidentally, I got the same score. Some of those really fooled me.


Oh, I do know how statistical probabilities work, but these were not true/false questions.

The scary part is that ALL the horribly gender-biased quotes could be easily be attributed to BOTH types of fundies,

I could have clicked one type exclusively for all nine and still gotten a similar score.

/The "Social Conservatives" (Teahadists) scare me more than any one else in the world.
 
2012-10-27 08:18:22 AM

dervish16108: 7 out of 9.

I thought the quotes from Pat Buchanan and Rick Santorum were said by Islamic Fundamentalists.


.....and they're both Catholic too, IIRC. I guess it's nice that the Protestants aren't responsible for ALL of the derp in the Christian West.

/scored 4 out of 9, myself
// it all sounds the same to me, I guess.
 
2012-10-27 08:20:10 AM

Forbidden Doughnut: BronyMedic: Can we just agree both are bad, and need to be eradicated from the face of the earth?

I can't go along with that. Sometimes, the cure is worse than the disease...

[www.davidstuff.com image 226x300]


There we go. There we go! Everytime an atheist talks about wiping out religion some douche has to bring up Stalin as if what he did was so terrible. Let me tell you something buddy, Mao Tse -tung had the best body count evar! So if you're going to talk atheists murdering in the name of their own ego as a devastating argument, except no substitutions!
 
2012-10-27 08:24:11 AM

G.I.R.B.: /The "Social Conservatives" (Teahadists) scare me more than any one else in the world.


blog.mlive.com
Just a parent trying to protect their child's future.
 
2012-10-27 08:24:12 AM
No shiat... I was expecting Mourdock to let an "Allah Akbar!!" fly after he finished "explaining" why pregnancies from rape are a "gift from god".

fark all these regressive, ignorant assholes, who don't know what century they live in.
 
2012-10-27 08:25:12 AM

Amos Quito: Someone feels left out.


/From who did Fundie Christianity and Fundie Islam pick up their misogyny?


Farther Abraham. (no, seriously. Remember Jacob and Esau? One is the patriarch of most of the Islamic world, the other of virtually everything that followed up to Christ.)
 
2012-10-27 08:28:46 AM

smitty04: G.I.R.B.: /The "Social Conservatives" (Teahadists) scare me more than any one else in the world.

[blog.mlive.com image 453x300]
Just a parent trying to protect their child's future.


At least she knows you never go ATM
 
2012-10-27 08:29:10 AM
7/9

I grew up around a lot of Christian fundamentalists, so I did pretty well. I either recognized most of the quotes or could tell the subtle difference between the two sides.

I thought the one about female masturbation was Christian because it still acknowledged women were capable of learning, and missed the first one because I wasn't warmed up yet.
 
2012-10-27 08:36:21 AM
nmemkha:

Also, it was no different. A tiny few did leave well off lives at the expense of the rest. The ideology and the implementation were wrong, not just the implementation.

Class is an easy and pretty much wrong explanation. The guys who herded thousands into the countryside, who tortured, who pulled the triggers to put thousands into mass graves were the same damn dirt-poor rice farmers that they were butchering. We're going to have to agree to disagree here, I think. One thing I learned from speaking with Cambodians was that even now no one knows where the orders came from. It was always from "The Organization." It wasn't Pol Pot living in some palace. It was the local equivalent of the Elks club president or the village hetman. In other words, your class.
 
2012-10-27 08:37:38 AM

middleoftheday: geek_mars: It would be nice if group members would address said individuals, then there would be no need for outsiders to feel as if they had to do it, which would prevent the militant response from the group to the outside interference.

You want the religious to brawl with the meanies at church or something? Some people just want to spend a nice Sunday morning praying and eating cookies, man.


No. I want the silent majority to take the microphone away from the nutbars infesting their ranks. I want sane people to say and show that the crazy among them don't speak for them all and don't truly represent what they want/think/feel. I want a reasonable person to take notice of something farked up that a fellow member of their group did and declare, "Hey man, that's farked up," and help them understand why it is and then say to the folks who had to endure farked up guy's ridiculousness that, "That guy's farked up and the rest of us don't want any part of whatever is wrong with him."

I wasn't advocating a brawl, and I'd never suggest anything that interfered with good people getting cookies.
 
2012-10-27 08:38:23 AM

smitty04: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Tarkus: There's a difference?

Hats

[elsasblog.com image 300x219] 
[www.gannett-cdn.com image 560x421]
Malala's hometown in the lush Swat Valley became the center of Taliban violence in Pakistan after the group pushed its way into power in 2007. Staunch opponents of female education, the Taliban a conservative, religious political organization terrorized students and teachers, bombed hundreds of schools and forced many others to close their doors to girls because of the risk.


FIFY
 
2012-10-27 08:45:26 AM

jcooli09: smitty04: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Tarkus: There's a difference?

Hats

[elsasblog.com image 300x219] 
[www.gannett-cdn.com image 560x421]
Malala's hometown in the lush Swat Valley became the center of Taliban violence in Pakistan after the group pushed its way into power in 2007. Staunch opponents of female education, the Taliban a conservative, religious political organization terrorized students and teachers, bombed hundreds of schools and forced many others to close their doors to girls because of the risk.

FIFY


Throughout history, there have been many mass-murderers. None are as infamous as these four Atheistic dictators:

(Here are the casualty figures of the genocides that occurred in Germany, Cambodia, Russia, and China.)

1. Adolf Hitler - around 11 million

2. Joseph Stalin - anywhere from 20 to 100 million

3. Chairman Mao Zedong - 50 to 70 million

4. Pol Pot - around 1 million
 
2012-10-27 08:47:39 AM

intelligent comment below: Another day ends in Y so you have to blame the Jews for everything, as usual.


I don't know if your quip about him is true or not, but I never really understood why Ultra-Orthodox Jews get a pass when we start talking about crazy-ass religious people. They're pretty seriously farked up people, they just live in New York instead of Birmingham. I guess just because there aren't as many of them and they keep most of their crazy within the community.

bhcompy: /everyone is capable of saying stupid shiat


I agree. Social conservatives today are, by choice, missing about two and a half centuries worth of knowledge, social and ethical advancement and should be viewed as inferiors with nothing of consequence to say.

/ that was your "point", right?

BronyMedic: Can we just agree both are bad, and need to be eradicated from the face of the earth?

All

religion should be eradicated. Unfortunately, the only way to do that is education, and these types of people actively avoid learning like it's the damn plague. So I don't think they're going anywhere, they'll just change the names of their god and book again and keep acting just as stupid.
 
2012-10-27 08:50:04 AM

smitty04: Throughout history, there have been many mass-murderers. None are as infamous as these four Atheistic dictators:

(Here are the casualty figures of the genocides that occurred in Germany, Cambodia, Russia, and China.)

1. Adolf Hitler - around 11 million



Hitler was not an atheist.

Not exactly Christian either, but he clearly believed in God.
 
2012-10-27 08:52:46 AM
I got 7/9 in the quiz.

Though I did recognize at least one fundy Christian quote and recognized some specific doctrinal points on some others. I was really guessing only about four times.
 
2012-10-27 08:53:48 AM
smitty04:

jcooli09: smitty04: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Tarkus: There's a difference?

Hats

[elsasblog.com image 300x219]
[www.gannett-cdn.com image 560x421]
Malala's hometown in the lush Swat Valley became the center of Taliban violence in Pakistan after the group pushed its way into power in 2007. Staunch opponents of female education, the Taliban a conservative, religious political organization terrorized students and teachers, bombed hundreds of schools and forced many others to close their doors to girls because of the risk.

FIFY

Throughout history, there have been many mass-murderers. None are as infamous as these four Atheistic fervently religious dictators:

(Here are the casualty figures of the genocides that occurred in Germany, Cambodia, Russia, and China.)

1. Adolf Hitler - around 11 million

2. Joseph Stalin - anywhere from 20 to 100 million

3. Chairman Mao Zedong - 50 to 70 million

4. Pol Pot - around 1 million 1.7 million


You just HAD to do it, didn't you?

Just because their god is The State rather than Yaweh or Allah or whatever, don't make the mistake that genocide can be accomplished without religion.

i49.tinypic.com 

Imagine if any one of these dictators had said "Yeah, believe whatever you want. I don't care." Do you think they'd have racked up quite the death toll?
 
2012-10-27 08:56:08 AM

jcooli09: smitty04: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Tarkus: There's a difference?

Hats

[elsasblog.com image 300x219] 

OK, I know, feeding the Troll and all that........

From my understanding, neither Pakistan nor the Taliban are "fully supported" by Liberals or Democrats.

Geopolitical necessity (diplomacy) means that we (The US) must sometimes "do business" with people or organizations that we do not agree with or even find repugnant.


[www.gannett-cdn.com image 560x421]
Malala's hometown in the lush Swat Valley became the center of Taliban violence in Pakistan after the group pushed its way into power in 2007. Staunch opponents of female education, the Taliban, a conservative, religious political organization with views scarily similar to "Social Conservatives" in the U.S. terrorized students and teachers, bombed hundreds of schools and forced many others to close their doors to girls because of the risk.


Much more accurate IMHO.

/That girl is my definition of a hero, and I sent her all my best thoughts.
 
2012-10-27 09:00:17 AM

milkyshirt: Holy shiat i got an 8 out of 9. Scary.


Pun intended?

/If not, it was God's will
 
2012-10-27 09:11:13 AM

intelligent comment below: What's even more bizarre is to claim Jewish fundamentalists are in any way similar to fundamentalist Christians and Muslims.


Besides not wanting to take over Planet earth, what's the difference? Jewish fundies are no less scumbags than their christian and muslim brothers. (NSFW language)
 
2012-10-27 09:13:40 AM

Forbidden Doughnut: BronyMedic: Can we just agree both are bad, and need to be eradicated from the face of the earth?

I can't go along with that. Sometimes, the cure is worse than the disease...

[www.davidstuff.com image 226x300]


Wow. You went there that early? You didn't even bother trolling first?
 
2012-10-27 09:14:52 AM
3/9, and I actually tried.
 
2012-10-27 09:15:29 AM

smitty04: Throughout history, there have been many mass-murderers. None are as infamous as these four Atheistic dictators:

(Here are the casualty figures of the genocides that occurred in Germany, Cambodia, Russia, and China.)

1. Adolf Hitler - around 11 million


...Aaand your first shot hit your foot.

i560.photobucket.com

Hitler was a good christian by contemporary standards. It's why he hated jews.
 
2012-10-27 09:16:23 AM
8/9
 
2012-10-27 09:17:05 AM
Christian fundamentalists-- the American Taliban tm
 
2012-10-27 09:18:13 AM

smitty04: G.I.R.B.: /The "Social Conservatives" (Teahadists) scare me more than any one else in the world.

[blog.mlive.com image 453x300]
Just a parent trying to protect their child's future.


that is actually a protest at a catholic church.
 
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