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(Slate)   "The Case for Not Voting." Apparently it boils down to being too busy   (slate.com) divider line 474
    More: Asinine, Lena Dunham, false choice, Biden  
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6662 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Oct 2012 at 12:29 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-26 03:09:41 PM

lennavan: Nutsac_Jim: lennavan: directly addressing the number one reason for bankruptcy,

Really? Uninsured people were the number one reason for bankruptcy?

Maybe you can show us a link to a webpage that backs up this assertion.

I didn't say uninsured people. I said health insurance, see for instance preexisting conditions and lifetime benefit caps. Insured people go bankrupt because of their health insurance too.

1. Medical Expenses

A study done at Harvard University indicates that this is the biggest cause of bankruptcy, representing 62% of all personal bankruptcies. One of the interesting caveats of this study shows that 78% of filers had some form of health insurance, thus bucking the myth that medical bills affect only the uninsured.

Link

You can google "united states reason for bankruptcy" if you would like a different reference.


thats awesome. from your own link:
One of the interesting caveats of this study shows that 78% of filers had some form of health insurance, thus bucking the myth that medical bills affect only the uninsured.

So maybe getting effing sick and not working was the real cause of most bankruptcies. 
The only way national healthcare helps with the number one cause is if the number one cause is
uninsured people getting sick.
 
2012-10-26 03:10:42 PM
I don't vote because I wont' vote for the lesser of two evils, which is what a number of people end up doing. A vote is a single statistic to the politician, they don't say, "Oh, Nancy voted for me, I'm going to listen to her views and act on them!", you're accepting a full package - a package created to garner the most votes. They don't care about you, your beliefs, your disagreement with parts of their plan - only that you voted for them.
 
2012-10-26 03:11:32 PM

Nutsac_Jim: The only way national healthcare


Wait you think Obamacare is "national health care?" Sorry, I guess I thought you were at least remotely familiar with what was actually passed.
 
2012-10-26 03:12:29 PM

DECMATH: God Is My Co-Pirate: every single adult has the responsibility to decide what issues matter the most to them, and which candidate aligns most closely with their own views.

Okay I'll bite with this link to http://www.isidewith.com/. Hope they can keep up with the traffic.


That's pretty good, wish more people would take something like this that shows them their options. I thought the Third Party Candidates debate was great, they talked about every issue that I actually wanted to see addressed in the "real" debates. Not surprisingly, my results listed Gary Johnson as my first choice (and he already had my vote), and Mitt Rmoney was my last choice, with Obama coming in second to last.
Jill Stein was my surprise not only in the 3rd party debates (I was very impressed and hadn't even heard of her candidacy previously), but she also came in second in my best choice list by 1%.
 
2012-10-26 03:13:38 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: No, you can't complain. You had a chance to voice your opinion, as other voters have, and you decided to ignore it completely. So no, no whining for you.


So either I have to send a signal to one of two groups that I support them and their positions by casting a vote for them, even if I stand against them on everything, and likewise provide my consent to being ruled by them or I can't compain about how I haven't given my consent or suppor to them or their ideas?

You cast a vote you don't get to biatch because you consented to the outcome.
 
2012-10-26 03:14:34 PM

firefly212: The one thing the 2000 election taught me was that every once in a while, these things really do make a huge difference. Trillions of dollars of spending on destroying governments and rebuilding nations halfway around the world while neglecting our own citizens because of a supposed lack of funding... I voted this year, and I will vote every two years for the rest of my life.

If 538 more Floridians had voted for Gore, who knows what we could have had instead of Iraq.


Guess the Reps were more efficient at ballot stuffing that year.
 
2012-10-26 03:14:56 PM

shiattynick: DECMATH: God Is My Co-Pirate: every single adult has the responsibility to decide what issues matter the most to them, and which candidate aligns most closely with their own views.

Okay I'll bite with this link to http://www.isidewith.com/. Hope they can keep up with the traffic.

That's pretty good, wish more people would take something like this that shows them their options. I thought the Third Party Candidates debate was great, they talked about every issue that I actually wanted to see addressed in the "real" debates. Not surprisingly, my results listed Gary Johnson as my first choice (and he already had my vote), and Mitt Rmoney was my last choice, with Obama coming in second to last.
Jill Stein was my surprise not only in the 3rd party debates (I was very impressed and hadn't even heard of her candidacy previously), but she also came in second in my best choice list by 1%.


I think we'd be in better shape as a nation if more people took a test like that before voting based on the (R) or (D) or (L) or (?) behind the candidate's name.  It's amazing how people assume that they agree with a candidate just because of a letter in parens behind their name.
 
2012-10-26 03:16:16 PM

DeathByGeekSquad: I don't vote because I wont' vote for the lesser of two evils, which is what a number of people end up doing. A vote is a single statistic to the politician, they don't say, "Oh, Nancy voted for me, I'm going to listen to her views and act on them!", you're accepting a full package - a package created to garner the most votes. They don't care about you, your beliefs, your disagreement with parts of their plan - only that you voted for them.



There is an awful lot of pouting in this post. Because there is not a candidate that 100% reflects your views, you're going to sit in the corner and cry? Wow. After all of the fighting, protesting and lives lost to ensure everyone can vote, to ensure we're not ruled by a King and that everyone has an equal voice. After years upon years of struggle, it's nice to know Americans are so secure in their right to vote they are okay with just squandering it by crying in the corner.

Nice dude, nice.
 
2012-10-26 03:18:01 PM
Let me preface this by addressing everyone that parades war veterans around as vote guilt trips: Go fark yourselves with rusty light sabers. I've spent the last 9 months of my life in this shiathole they call Afghanistan "earning" my right to vote or not. That said... begin manifesto:

I'm not against voting per se, but I am against voting for people I don't actually want in power. And I will never feel bad for staying away because of that. So, unless there is someone on the ballot that I would legitimately like to see in power, I feel no duty to vote. Otherwise, I'm just empowering and lending legitimacy to a systematic and self-propagating turd farm of politicians who do more and more to erode my other rights and freedoms. Even if I vote for a lesser of two evils, I have still become a part of a statistic that now is used as justification for bad policy; "President X has a mandate to bomb the shiat out of Canada because 55% of the population voted for him." I won't be part of that 55%

I am also against encouraging people to vote just for the sake of voting. Intellectually and socially, it pats people on the ass for simply "letting their voice be heard" no matter how out of tune and terrible their voice is. It's like giving everyone on Little Bobby's soccer team a participation trophy, even though they spent the entire game eating grass and chasing butterflies while the other team scored 50 goals, kicked Bobby's puppy, and got to third base with Bobby's mother's too for good measure. The simple act of voting is not noble (nor ignoble); it is not to be commended (or scorned) any more than eating a bowl of froot loops for breakfast. HOW you vote is the measure of your accomplishment of your civic duty.

I guess if someone has taken the time to carefully sift through the layers of horseshiat and actually believes that the D or R nominees are really someone they WANT in power (vice doing it to prevent the other guy from winning), fine. By all means, go and vote for them. But I don't really believe that happens much. I think people, by and large, are peer pressured into voting against the other guy, and branded as "bad citizens" if they even consider not voting (and idiots "wasting their votes" if they go third party - what hypocrisy).

Herding the masses into voting booths, rewarding them with a "good for YOU!" and plastering them with a patronizing patriotic "I Voted Today, assuage my feelings of civic ignorance and insecurity and tell me how awesome I am" sticker is ridiculous. The political practical ramifications are that it pushes massively uninformed people into the arms of the two major political parties and ideologies which are bought and paid for by the highest bidder. Now people are hooked into voting themselves plunder from the treasury, worrying about BIRF CERTIFIKITS!, calling the other guy a Nazi because his tax policy is slightly different, etc.

Suddenly, people have turned civic involvement into the NFL. MY TEAM must win. I voted for the R so EVERYTHING the Rs do is now right, and they must win or America will explode. Never mind that 90% of what your "team" tells you is unfiltered bullshiat designed to dog whistle you with buzz words into pulling the voting lever and opening your wallet on command. The cycle continues, the Party grows and mutates, and wealth and power continue to consolidate thanks to Joseph McVoteypants's Pavlovian obedience to "make his voice heard."

Meanwhile, Bobby's soccer team still sucks yet he's still got his participation trophy. Not even attempting to be subtle, the Ds and Rs are gang-banging his mother and stealing his lunch money. But who cares? The important thing is that his voice was heard. He did his duty, right?

I need a blog.
//it will suck
 
2012-10-26 03:19:18 PM
The fact that people still think this is a real democracy is a joke. If the American people completely controlled it we wouldnt have to choose between a turd sandwich & giant d bag, we're smarter than that, at least id hope we are. Our choices to vote for are controlled mostly by CNN, FOX, MSNBC, etc
dont get me started on the religious nutjubs that cast a vote just bc of two issues (abortion, gay marriage). We have how much debt? How many soldiers dying? But abortion & gay marriage are way more important right? Not to mention a lil thing called seperation of church & state...
/ the constitution is a beautiful thing, too bad we've taken a massive shiat all over it by now
// its not that people are lazy or uninformed, people are EMBARRASSED to be an American now, & we should be
/// but theres too many idiots that vote for us to successfully overthrow the two parties
//// slashies ftw
 
2012-10-26 03:19:27 PM

lennavan: Nutface, it's up there in bold for you to re-read. I said health insurance was the number one reason. That includes not having health insurance as well as having health insurance that doesn't cover enough.


But where in the link does it say that the reason for most bankruptcies is because of uncovered medical expenses or uninsured? It doesn't.
 
2012-10-26 03:20:41 PM

Paelian: at least I did not participate in the facade of representative government and help lend it legitimacy.


Once upon a time in my youth, when I knew everything (as we all do in our teenage years), I tried to imagine what the perfect form of government would be.

I came to the conclusion that there are exactly two forms of government that would work well:

1. Pure democracy. None of that republican nonesense. And I use these terms in the literal sense, not in reference to our political parties. The only catch to such a system is that everyone who votes must be completely and thoroughly educated on the topic they are to vote on. And I mean it. No biased reporting, no spin or half truths. 100% knowledgeable on the topic at hand.

2. A pure dictatorship. You put one person in charge of the entire populace. They have their delegates for handling the menial day to day stuff but policy is left completely up to the dictator. The catch is that the dictator has to be 100% benevolent. They have to have the people's interests in mind and ONLY the people's interests in mind. This person doesn't have to be perfect but as long as they listen to the people and make well informed decisions it should work out (more or less).

I think we can all agree that both 1 and 2 are so improbable as to be considered impossible to achieve.
 
2012-10-26 03:21:56 PM
Let me translate:

Hollywood-type-person "OMG, You HAVE to vote!!!"

Translation: "OMG, You have to vote, for Obama!"
 
2012-10-26 03:23:11 PM
I'm not voting because I live in Texas, so I won't affect the Presidency, and Im not from here and honestly don't know enough about the local elections to make an informed decision.

All I do know is the names of two candidates my TV constantly tells me not to vote for, but never who to vote for. I did consider the idea of voting against whoever does the most attack ads, simply out of spite. Things also seem pretty ok in this city, low taxes, decent schools, good economy, etc. so I'm gonna let this cycle slide by without my input.
 
2012-10-26 03:25:11 PM

a61sun: It's not that I don't care, I don't vote because even if I DO vote, it changes nothing.


So if your vote isn't the deciding vote, it was a wasted effort? You're entitled to be called upon to vote only when the balance hangs on your one vote, and not be bothered otherwise? No offense, but that doesn't demonstrate a lot of caring.

FWIW, here's how I maintain my illusion of significance: I research the issues, and the candidates, sometimes even relying on other sources beyond the web, and I vote AS IF I were the only one voting.

/I like to think it's because I care about the larger community I'm in, but I'm willing to admit it's for more selfish motives.
 
2012-10-26 03:25:23 PM

The Southern Logic Company: Not registered, not voting, never voted, not going to vote.

Until we have something that isn't a two party system, I am not going to bother with it. Neither party represents my interests, nor do any third parties.

Not all non-voters are lazy or stupid. I will keep complaining because there is a LOT wrong with this country that has nothing to do with Democratic or Republican politics.


Guess what the 'write-in candidate' option is for?
 
2012-10-26 03:27:07 PM

Nutsac_Jim: lennavan: Nutface, it's up there in bold for you to re-read. I said health insurance was the number one reason. That includes not having health insurance as well as having health insurance that doesn't cover enough.

But where in the link does it say that the reason for most bankruptcies is because of uncovered medical expenses or uninsured? It doesn't.


It doesn't need to.

The number one reason for bankruptcy - 1. Medical Expenses
Part of that was lifetime caps.
Obamacare removes lifetime caps.
Therefore Obamacare addresses the number one reason for bankruptcy.

The number one reason for bankruptcy - 1. Medical Expenses
Part of that was denial of coverage due to preexisting conditions.
Obamacare removes preexisting conditions.
Therefore Obamacare addresses the number one reason for bankruptcy.

The number one reason for bankruptcy - 1. Medical Expenses
Part of that was denial of coverage due to preexisting conditions.
Obamacare removes preexisting conditions.
Therefore Obamacare addresses the number one reason for bankruptcy.

The number one reason for bankruptcy - 1. Medical Expenses
Part of that was young people not being insured.
Obamacare allows young people to remain on their parents insurance.
Therefore Obamacare addresses the number one reason for bankruptcy.

The number one reason for bankruptcy - 1. Medical Expenses
Part of that was denial of coverage because forcing the individual to pay increases profits.
Obamacare capped profits.
Therefore Obamacare addresses the number one reason for bankruptcy.

The number one reason for bankruptcy - 1. Medical Expenses
Part of that was uninsured people.
Obamacare includes a mandate that everyone purchase insurance.
Therefore Obamacare addresses the number one reason for bankruptcy.

Obamacare did not eliminate the number one reason for bankruptcy. But it sure as fark addressed it.
 
2012-10-26 03:28:01 PM

CruJones: I'm not voting because I live in Texas, so I won't affect the Presidency, and Im not from here and honestly don't know enough about the local elections to make an informed decision.

All I do know is the names of two candidates my TV constantly tells me not to vote for, but never who to vote for. I did consider the idea of voting against whoever does the most attack ads, simply out of spite. Things also seem pretty ok in this city, low taxes, decent schools, good economy, etc. so I'm gonna let this cycle slide by without my input.


You could take the time to become informed. Just a thought.
 
2012-10-26 03:31:14 PM

thewulf: One of the interesting caveats of this study shows that 78% of filers had some form of health insurance, thus bucking the myth that medical bills affect only the uninsured.

Link

You can google "united states reason for bankruptcy" if you would like a different reference.

Ummm this means nothing. "Some form of health insurance" doesn't mean that they didn't go bankrupt for medical reasons. Most people have garbage health insurance plans won't cover them in a variety of situations, still causing them to go bankrupt.

Correlation != Causation


And, obama's insurance bill.. it provides this minimum coverage for people?
 
2012-10-26 03:31:52 PM

daveUSMC: Let me preface this by addressing everyone that parades war veterans around as vote guilt trips: Go fark yourselves with rusty light sabers. I've spent the last 9 months of my life in this shiathole they call Afghanistan "earning" my right to vote or not. That said... begin manifesto:

I'm not against voting per se, but I am against voting for people I don't actually want in power. And I will never feel bad for staying away because of that. So, unless there is someone on the ballot that I would legitimately like to see in power, I feel no duty to vote. Otherwise, I'm just empowering and lending legitimacy to a systematic and self-propagating turd farm of politicians who do more and more to erode my other rights and freedoms. Even if I vote for a lesser of two evils, I have still become a part of a statistic that now is used as justification for bad policy; "President X has a mandate to bomb the shiat out of Canada because 55% of the population voted for him." I won't be part of that 55%

I am also against encouraging people to vote just for the sake of voting. Intellectually and socially, it pats people on the ass for simply "letting their voice be heard" no matter how out of tune and terrible their voice is. It's like giving everyone on Little Bobby's soccer team a participation trophy, even though they spent the entire game eating grass and chasing butterflies while the other team scored 50 goals, kicked Bobby's puppy, and got to third base with Bobby's mother's too for good measure. The simple act of voting is not noble (nor ignoble); it is not to be commended (or scorned) any more than eating a bowl of froot loops for breakfast. HOW you vote is the measure of your accomplishment of your civic duty.

I guess if someone has taken the time to carefully sift through the layers of horseshiat and actually believes that the D or R nominees are really someone they WANT in power (vice doing it to prevent the other guy from winning), fine. By all means, go and vote for th ...


+1

And thank you for your service!
 
2012-10-26 03:32:42 PM

lennavan:
Obamacare did not eliminate the number one reason for bankruptcy. But it sure as fark addressed it.



And by the time he leaves office, next term, we will have decided that he traded individual bankruptcy for national bankruptcy.
 
2012-10-26 03:32:54 PM
Wow, I can't believe there are so many non-vote defenders here.

Try living in a country that doesn't allow its citizens to vote, then you'll understand how much power and influence you have. To throw your vote away is the most anti-democratic thing you can do.
 
2012-10-26 03:34:36 PM
I feel like the US and Canada should adopt the Australian method of compulsory voting. You can spoil your ballot as you damn-well please, but you are obliged to vote nonetheless. It would send a proper message about the disenfranchisement of the electorate if enough people were to spoil their ballots, as opposed to just being lazy.
 
2012-10-26 03:35:39 PM

wildcardjack: I'm in Texas. Is that enough of an excuse to stay home?


No, get out there and vote! Too many people seem to think Texas votes 99% Republican, but that's not the case. It's been edging closer to 50/50. In the 2008 general election, McCain got 55.45%, while Obama got 43.68%. The US Senatorial race went 54.82% Republican to 42.83% Dem. And there are plenty of areas in Texas that are solidly Democratic.

Texan Democrats DO have the power to close those gaps and turn Texas purple (or blue) if they'd just get out there and vote instead of staying home and whining that "Oh, Texas is a red state so my vote doesn't count."  Go out there and kick some elephant ass!
 
2012-10-26 03:37:12 PM

Warlordtrooper: rumpelstiltskin: Voting is a responsiblilty in a democracy, not a right.

Actually voting is a constitutionally protected right.

FlashHarry: shiat like this just makes my blood farking boil. what farking arrogance. what farking laziness. what farking entitlement. when millions live under oppressive dictatorship around the world, to not exercise your sacred right of suffrage is just farking disgusting.

OH ya, so please explain to me why I should go vote. Seeing as how I'm in New York and my vote counts for a fraction of what a vote cast in Ohio counts for. Please go on and defend this asinine electoral system where peoples votes make no difference.


If more NYers had voted in the last 1, 2, 3 mayoral elections, we wouldn't be currently ruled by that dictator with the Napolen complex.
 
2012-10-26 03:38:33 PM
lennavan Smartest
Funniest
2012-10-26 03:02:01 PM


doubled99: lennavan
I'm sorry, I can't hear you. And neither can anyone else.



and yet you keep responding somehow.
So you're incapable of even understanding your own words.



/nice effort, though

I didn't post that. That isn't just a mistake deleting text to shorten the quote, my name was nowhere in that post.




Well fark me. You are right, that wasn't you.
shiat, now I have to go and vote.
 
2012-10-26 03:39:19 PM

FlashHarry: shiat like this just makes my blood farking boil. what farking arrogance. what farking laziness. what farking entitlement. when millions live under oppressive dictatorship around the world, to not exercise your sacred right of suffrage is just farking disgusting.


This.

_Any_ of you asshats not voting _are_ the problem. _You_ are why you can't have nice things. Vote.
 
2012-10-26 03:40:28 PM

AllUpInYa: lennavan:
Obamacare did not eliminate the number one reason for bankruptcy. But it sure as fark addressed it.


And by the time he leaves office, next term, we will have decided that he traded individual bankruptcy for national bankruptcy.


The ACA law is not a single payer plan... or a public option. How would the ACA cause a national bankruptcy?
 
2012-10-26 03:40:34 PM

lennavan: Nutsac_Jim: 4 out of 5 people with medical bankruptcies had insurance. So, not much was really done.

Why did those people with insurance go bankrupt?

• Denied claims as "pre-existing conditions."
• Lifetime maximums.
• Maximizing profits, every denied claim goes directly to increasing profits.

What was done?

• No more pre-existing conditions.
• No more lifetime maximums.
• Cap on the profits.

Yeah, actually some stuff was done.

Recall, I did not post "Obama completely solved the number one reason for bankruptcy." I did not say "Obama eliminated the number one reason for bankruptcy." I said "Obama addressed the number one reason for bankruptcy."

At this point we have established:

1) Health insurance was the number one reason for bankruptcy.
2) Yes, Obamacare did address it.

I accept your apology.


ok. I never had a problem with preexisting conditions, as every insurance company paid despite the issue existing before I was hired. I don't see why this was an issue. Perhaps anecdotal.

I have questioned the insuance agencies stand on this one. There was already a law about these preexisting conditions. Maybe the issue is people that didnt want to buy insurance, then gettings sick, and finding a job with insurance, then filing a claim.

I dont think there are that many people that have busted through a 2million dollar cap to cause any
meaningful drop in bankruptcies. to get it off the number one spot.
 
2012-10-26 03:42:45 PM
There are two acceptable reasons not to vote.

You're under age, or you're six feet under. Thats it.
 
2012-10-26 03:42:56 PM

ladykills82: Guess what the 'write-in candidate' option is for?


Steve Rodgers.

ladykills82: CruJones: I'm not voting because I live in Texas, so I won't affect the Presidency, and Im not from here and honestly don't know enough about the local elections to make an informed decision.

All I do know is the names of two candidates my TV constantly tells me not to vote for, but never who to vote for. I did consider the idea of voting against whoever does the most attack ads, simply out of spite. Things also seem pretty ok in this city, low taxes, decent schools, good economy, etc. so I'm gonna let this cycle slide by without my input.

You could take the time to become informed. Just a thought.


This. OTOH, trying to sort through the muck raking and constant exposure to political ads can be tiresome.
 
2012-10-26 03:43:48 PM

Honest Bender: GanjSmokr: Throw Gary Johnson a vote. If he gets 5%, things might be more interesting next time around.

Unless you like being limited to the choices of CW1 and CW2 (which it seems you don't), do something to initiate change. If Gary Johnson gets 5% of the vote this time, we could see some change next time around.

I've just GOT to ask... what's your logic behind this? That if Random Dude gets a paltry number of votes, somehow it'll shake up the whole corrupt system?

IlGreven: ..,thank you for furthering the agenda of corporate whores. Probably more than those who actually vote for them.

I know, right? I mean, I could help to elect the next corporate shill or I could vote for someone who has ZERO chance of being elected. Surely that is somehow better than just abstaining... Tell me, how is my voting (vs. not voting) going to stick it to the corrupt political system?


Next time he will get to debate. Remember 1992 debate with Perot.
 
2012-10-26 03:44:01 PM

Honest Bender: Paelian: at least I did not participate in the facade of representative government and help lend it legitimacy.

Once upon a time in my youth, when I knew everything (as we all do in our teenage years), I tried to imagine what the perfect form of government would be.

I came to the conclusion that there are exactly two forms of government that would work well:

1. Pure democracy. None of that republican nonesense. And I use these terms in the literal sense, not in reference to our political parties. The only catch to such a system is that everyone who votes must be completely and thoroughly educated on the topic they are to vote on. And I mean it. No biased reporting, no spin or half truths. 100% knowledgeable on the topic at hand.

2. A pure dictatorship. You put one person in charge of the entire populace. They have their delegates for handling the menial day to day stuff but policy is left completely up to the dictator. The catch is that the dictator has to be 100% benevolent. They have to have the people's interests in mind and ONLY the people's interests in mind. This person doesn't have to be perfect but as long as they listen to the people and make well informed decisions it should work out (more or less).

I think we can all agree that both 1 and 2 are so improbable as to be considered impossible to achieve.


Saying that I think the current system is not set up to represent me at all is not the same thing as saying, "I wish for the some absurdly unrealistic system of government where everything is rainbows and unicorns."  You are right that ideal political systems are, well, ideals. But that's no the same thing as saying that I find the current system acceptable. And there's a big difference between acknowledging the problems in the system and pretending that there are no problems, as some people in this thread are doing. Not small problems, but fundamental ones.

What I'm saying is that the system is presented in a way that is layered in hypocrisy, and the "If you don't vote, you are a a scumbag" folks do not realize that for a substantial number of Americans, voting is an exercise in futility. No one has yet to sit down and say, "Your arguments about how politics are structured in your district/state are wrong. You should vote because it would have the following real, meaningful impacts on the election:...."

They instead say things like, "You must be a privileged jerk from a privileged part of American culture" or "You're just lazy" or "You have no right to complain" while not addressing my claims about unopposed incumbents, gerrymandering, or the electoral college. They also do not address my point about sending money to PACs to influence the elections in parts of the country where voting DOES MATTER.

It's almost like these people are the ones living on Planet Unicorn where everyone has equal access to politics and there are no quirks in the political system that ensure only the right kinds of votes matter. And it's almost like partisans for both the Democrats and Republicans are ashamed to admit that two of the most crucial ways in which both parties are alike (gerrymandering and benefiting from the electoral college) are ways that reduce the efficacy of people voting rather than making sure every vote actually matters.

Vote if you live in place where you vote matters. And along party lines if you want to. But don't pretend that voting matters equally all parts of the United States (only an ignoramus thinks that), and don't pretend that the current system doesn't benefit the two big parties, giving them way more clout in politics than they might otherwise have.
 
2012-10-26 03:45:34 PM

lennavan: Nutsac_Jim: The assertion was that uninsured people were the number one cause of bankruptcy.

No it wasn't.

lennavan: improved health insurance directly addressing the number one reason for bankruptcy

The assertion was Obamacare addressed the number one reason for bankruptcy. Stop being a nutsac, Jim.


my fault. I thought you were saying that the number one cause was uninsured people.

I'll accept it is addressing it, but that it will have no meaningful impact on the number, because there just arent that many people slamming into the lifetime cap.

I think it the Tax for not paying actually provided some basic coverage. then we might have a lot of people being covered for items that would previously have bankrupted them. Maybe in Obamacare 2.0 .....
 
2012-10-26 03:45:35 PM

RedVentrue: Next time he will get to debate. Remember 1992 debate with Perot.


No. I was 8.
 
2012-10-26 03:47:21 PM
Is this the thread where people try and tell each other what they can or can not do with zero authority and zero effect? Because if so, count me in!

If you voted for the winner and later want to complain about the government you must first began any responses in a political thread with the words, "I can see your point, however ..."

If you voted for the loser you are allowed to whine about the government as much as you want but you have to volunteer at the campaign office next election.

If you didn't vote you may only complain about the government on Wednesdays and Fridays or if a state of martial law is declared.

And if you voted for a candidate that doesn't strongly support teaching evolution in schools you can't have any antibiotics for some retarded reason.
 
2012-10-26 03:47:49 PM

Nutsac_Jim: ok. I never had a problem with preexisting conditions, as every insurance company paid despite the issue existing before I was hired. I don't see why this was an issue. Perhaps anecdotal.


I think you were on to something at the end there. Go with it.

Nutsac_Jim: I have questioned the insuance agencies stand on this one. There was already a law about these preexisting conditions. Maybe the issue is people that didnt want to buy insurance, then gettings sick, and finding a job with insurance, then filing a claim.


Maybe rather than totally guess you could google it for examples to find out what was actually occurring.

Here is a portion of a transcript of testimony given to Congress. You can check Youtube for the video if you want to watch or listen instead.

My name is Linda Peeno, and although the witness list does not reflect this, I am a physician. I am a former medical director and medical reviewer.

Now, let me explain to you the ways that I was a good medical director. I was regularly consulted by marketing on ways to change expensive benefits or change the language to give me loopholes to make denials when requests came.

For example in one plan, we were able to structure our investigational language exclusion so that I was often able to use it to deny almost anything that was expensive, and particularly out-of-network requests.

I turned preexisting exclusions into a game as I tried to connect almost any prior medical complaint or visit as a reason to deny payment.


Link

Is it alright if I suggest we go with the Congressional testimony of a woman who used to work for the insurance companies actually deciding on these claims over your wild conjecture?

Nutsac_Jim: I dont think there are that many people that have busted through a 2million dollar cap to cause any
meaningful drop in bankruptcies.


Guess we're going to go with your wild guesses. Cool, I can work with that. I said "Obamacare addressed the number one reason for health care." Your reply here is "This very specific part of Obamacare only addressed it a little bit." Sure. It still addressed it.
 
2012-10-26 03:49:02 PM

hugram: AllUpInYa: lennavan:
Obamacare did not eliminate the number one reason for bankruptcy. But it sure as fark addressed it.


And by the time he leaves office, next term, we will have decided that he traded individual bankruptcy for national bankruptcy.

The ACA law is not a single payer plan... or a public option. How would the ACA cause a national bankruptcy?



I don't think there's anything substantive to reign in healthcare costs, and making insurance mandatory creates a seller's market. Do you think that ins providers won't collude to raise prices?
 
2012-10-26 03:50:05 PM

Nutsac_Jim: I'll accept it is addressing it, but that it will have no meaningful impact on the number, because there just arent that many people slamming into the lifetime cap.


Obamacare did more than just remove the lifetime cap. You didn't know that? Wow.
 
2012-10-26 03:50:38 PM

AmbassadorBooze: should people vote? yes. Does it do anything? no.


makes sense
 
2012-10-26 03:50:52 PM
vote by mail farkers
 
2012-10-26 03:51:25 PM

lennavan: Nutsac_Jim: The only way national healthcare

Wait you think Obamacare is "national health care?" Sorry, I guess I thought you were at least remotely familiar with what was actually passed.


lennavan: Obamacare did not eliminate the number one reason for bankruptcy. But it sure as fark addressed it.


I will concede that it did more than I thought.
Has the number of medical bankruptcies gone down? I understand OC is not fully implmemented..
but if all the above assertions are indeed meaningful, then they would have an effect on the number of medical bankkruptcies.
 
2012-10-26 03:52:29 PM

AllUpInYa: I don't think there's anything substantive to reign in healthcare costs, and making insurance mandatory creates a seller's market. Do you think that ins providers won't collude to raise prices?


If they did, they would either have to spend that increased money on benefits, or return it to people in the form of a check.

The "80/20 rule" in the ACA mandates that health insurers spend at least 80% of their customers' premiums on health services, leaving no more than 20% for administrative costs and advertising. That means if an insurance company spends 78% of the money it collects on health benefits for customers, it has to send rebate checks for the additional 2%.
 
2012-10-26 03:52:53 PM

wildcardjack: I'm in Texas. Is that enough of an excuse to stay home?

/And monkeys might fly out of my ass.


no, because you may have a large number of additional candidates depending on where you live

plus you need to vote for the state board of education person (or against depending)
 
2012-10-26 03:55:17 PM

SilentStrider: There are two acceptable reasons not to vote.

You're under age, or you're six feet under. Thats it.


3) You are uninformed and will just casting a random ballot because it is your "duty"
 
2012-10-26 03:57:15 PM

Nutsac_Jim: Has the number of medical bankruptcies gone down? I understand OC is not fully implmemented..


No idea, everything I see cites the 2007 Harvard study. I assume that just means a more recent one hasn't been implemented yet.

Nutsac_Jim: but if all the above assertions are indeed meaningful, then they would have an effect on the number of medical bankkruptcies.


That is correct. I fully expect the number of medical bankruptcies to significantly decline. But the data doesn't exist to my knowledge yet, that's just a hypothesis.
 
2012-10-26 03:59:32 PM

lennavan: If they did, they would either have to spend that increased money on benefits, or return it to people in the form of a check.


In before "CEO's therapeutic Veyron".
 
2012-10-26 03:59:44 PM
I usually feel a nanosecond or so of guilt, like when you step on a beneficial insect, for being on the other side of the country hunting on election day, even though I usually do is vote to fire every judge on the ballot. But this year...not so much. It was different when we were trying to save the world from the EPA or that Brady coont, but now I have to get emissions inspections on my vehicles IN TEXAS. There is nothing left to fight for any longer.
 
2012-10-26 04:00:36 PM

midigod: midigod: I could give you quotes

Just for insano, here are a few. They're not all Founding Fathers, but the ones who aren't are still eminently qualified:

"Now more than ever before, the people are responsible for the character of their Congress. If that body be ignorant, reckless and corrupt, it is because the people tolerate ignorance, recklessness and corruption. If it be intelligent, brave and pure, it is because the people demand these high qualities to represent them in the national legislature.... If the next centennial does not find us a great nation ... it will be because those who represent the enterprise, the culture, and the morality of the nation do not aid in controlling the political forces."
- James Garfield

"To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men."
- Abraham Lincoln

"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine

"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government."
- Thomas Paine

A nation, as a society, forms a moral person, and every member of it is personally responsible for his society.
- Thomas Jefferson, Founding Father and third U.S. president (1743-1826), in a letter to George Hammond, 1792

"We the People are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts--not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
- Abraham Lincoln

This country will not be a good place for any of us to live in unless we make it a good place for all of us to live in.
- Theodore Roosevelt, American adventurer and 26th president (1858-1919)

Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost.
- John Quincy Adams

"The jaws of power are always open to devour, and her arm is always stretched out, if possible, to destroy the freedom of thinking, speaking, and writing."
- John Adams

"If ye love wealth greater than liberty, t ...



Most of these quotes don't necessarily have to do with voting.
 
2012-10-26 04:00:57 PM
Even though ALL I do is...

ftfm
 
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