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(Slate)   "The Case for Not Voting." Apparently it boils down to being too busy   (slate.com) divider line 474
    More: Asinine, Lena Dunham, false choice, Biden  
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6662 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Oct 2012 at 12:29 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



474 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-10-26 10:11:36 AM
shiat like this just makes my blood farking boil. what farking arrogance. what farking laziness. what farking entitlement. when millions live under oppressive dictatorship around the world, to not exercise your sacred right of suffrage is just farking disgusting.
 
2012-10-26 10:20:39 AM
Voting is a responsiblilty in a democracy, not a right.
 
2012-10-26 10:23:31 AM

FlashHarry: shiat like this just makes my blood farking boil. what farking arrogance. what farking laziness. what farking entitlement. when millions live under oppressive dictatorship around the world, to not exercise your sacred right of suffrage is just farking disgusting.


Who farking cares if someone else doesn't vote? If they can't be bothered they shouldn't vote.

And if anyone thinks they are sending a message by not voting the message is they can't be bothered. If anyone wants to send a message that the choices suck they should turn in a blank ballot.

/will be voting.
 
2012-10-26 10:25:07 AM

Happy Hours: FlashHarry: shiat like this just makes my blood farking boil. what farking arrogance. what farking laziness. what farking entitlement. when millions live under oppressive dictatorship around the world, to not exercise your sacred right of suffrage is just farking disgusting.

Who farking cares if someone else doesn't vote? If they can't be bothered they shouldn't vote.


Because they'll still biatch and f*cking moan about things
 
2012-10-26 10:26:47 AM
Perhaps you're uncomfortable, for reasons having to do with privilege and class, arguing that people have an obligation to be informed before they vote.

What shiattery is this?!

Of course you should be informed. Of course there's a huge amount of information, and no, not everybody is going to follow every political analysis and complex tax proposal by every candidate, but Jesus, every single adult has the responsibility to decide what issues matter the most to them, and which candidate aligns most closely with their own views.

If you don't vote, you simply have no right to complain about the government.
 
2012-10-26 12:31:28 PM
I'm voting for turd sandwich this time.
 
2012-10-26 12:31:39 PM
I'm in Texas. Is that enough of an excuse to stay home?

/And monkeys might fly out of my ass.
 
2012-10-26 12:32:30 PM
Alabamian voting for Obama.

I might as well throw my vote away.
 
2012-10-26 12:32:44 PM
Three words: National Voting Day
 
2012-10-26 12:33:01 PM
Happy Hours: If anyone wants to send a message that the choices suck they should turn in a blank ballot.

/will be voting.

That's...not a bad idea actually, can you actually do that?

//Doesn't vote, choices suck
 
2012-10-26 12:33:09 PM
Early voted two days ago. Not in a swing state, so it wasn't very satisfying.
 
2012-10-26 12:33:49 PM
The one thing the 2000 election taught me was that every once in a while, these things really do make a huge difference. Trillions of dollars of spending on destroying governments and rebuilding nations halfway around the world while neglecting our own citizens because of a supposed lack of funding... I voted this year, and I will vote every two years for the rest of my life.

If 538 more Floridians had voted for Gore, who knows what we could have had instead of Iraq.
 
2012-10-26 12:34:01 PM

Aarontology: Happy Hours: FlashHarry: shiat like this just makes my blood farking boil. what farking arrogance. what farking laziness. what farking entitlement. when millions live under oppressive dictatorship around the world, to not exercise your sacred right of suffrage is just farking disgusting.

Who farking cares if someone else doesn't vote? If they can't be bothered they shouldn't vote.

Because they'll still biatch and f*cking moan about things


so?

I can biatch and moan about the person I vote for. I can biatch and moan about the person you vote for. And, I can biatch and moan about anyone even though I never voted. There is no entrance fee for biatching. it's not a special club.

I can even biatch and moan about the weather.
 
2012-10-26 12:34:04 PM

God Is My Co-Pirate: If you don't vote, you simply have no right to complain about the government.


So you vote in the morons and I can't complain?

Oblig
 
2012-10-26 12:34:17 PM
Oh, so you think voting actually matters?

Let me laugh even harder.
 
2012-10-26 12:34:46 PM
Meh, the electoral college will do it for me.
 
2012-10-26 12:35:14 PM
Isn't voting part of the reason for the Arab Spring uprising last year?

/you have just as many hours in the day as Einstein, Edison, and other historic greats
//you could take advantage of early voting ala Obama
///slashies rock the vote!
 
2012-10-26 12:35:20 PM
I don't vote because I refuse to take part in a morally bankrupt sham.
 
2012-10-26 12:35:34 PM
a stable democracy stays that way in part due to its electorate actively taking part in that democracy.

and really, there are mail-in-ballots, early voting options, and more than enough digested information on the internet that making a decision and voting nowadays is really not hard.

for fark's sake, get out there and VOTE!
 
2012-10-26 12:35:59 PM
There is no case. "I'm too busy" is not a case for not voting; it's a case for you being lazy.
 
2012-10-26 12:36:04 PM

Aarontology: Happy Hours: FlashHarry: shiat like this just makes my blood farking boil. what farking arrogance. what farking laziness. what farking entitlement. when millions live under oppressive dictatorship around the world, to not exercise your sacred right of suffrage is just farking disgusting.

Who farking cares if someone else doesn't vote? If they can't be bothered they shouldn't vote.

Because they'll still biatch and f*cking moan about things


That argument is the same as saying you can't complain about anything if the person you voted for is elected.

I will stop biatching and moaning about things as soon as I get to stop paying taxes, voting is irrelevant.
 
2012-10-26 12:36:23 PM

Jacobin: Early voted two days ago. Not in a swing state, so it wasn't very satisfying.


I early v0ted yesterday, BcAuse I could...MAinly because I wanted to experience the release of tension.
 
2012-10-26 12:36:27 PM
Here in Il, the good guys are polling way ahead.
 
2012-10-26 12:36:35 PM

shkkmo: I don't vote because I refuse to take part in a morally bankrupt sham.


Yeah, that'll definitely fix the problem.
 
2012-10-26 12:36:49 PM

thewulf: God Is My Co-Pirate: If you don't vote, you simply have no right to complain about the government.

So you vote in the morons and I can't complain?

Oblig


Bah: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIraCchPDhk
 
2012-10-26 12:37:28 PM
I'm still not sure whether I'm going to vote for the black Bush or the with Bush.
 
2012-10-26 12:37:43 PM
For all the pro-vote haranguing, and the contempt shown toward those who expend their energy elsewhere, it seems worth noting that there are competing, worthy demands on our time. It's true that the moment we turn our backs, the world, as Alicia Keys says, may burn. But among the many privileges of life in a stable democracy is the knowledge that it probably won't.

You enjoy said privileges because of all the other people who get off their entitled, lazy asses and vote. There's no reason for you not to. Absolutely none, and you can biatch about "haranguing" by pro-voters all you want, we're the ones saving your stupid asses.
 
2012-10-26 12:37:48 PM
I already voted but I'm thinkin of writing a nice trolly letter to Obama and a some IL Democrats:

Dear Mr President,

As an enthusiastic supporter of yours I just wanted to wish you the best of luck in the election. You have turned the country's economy around, made the country more secure, provided equal rights for many, improved health insurance directly addressing the number one reason for bankruptcy, amongst many other great accomplishments. I can only hope for four more years just like this. Unfortunately I will not be voting, I can't get off of work that day.

Hugs,
~Lenny
 
2012-10-26 12:37:58 PM
Think you vote matters, just ask an economist.

I still vote and I know it's futile.
 
2012-10-26 12:38:35 PM

Aarontology: Happy Hours: FlashHarry: shiat like this just makes my blood farking boil. what farking arrogance. what farking laziness. what farking entitlement. when millions live under oppressive dictatorship around the world, to not exercise your sacred right of suffrage is just farking disgusting.

Who farking cares if someone else doesn't vote? If they can't be bothered they shouldn't vote.

Because they'll still biatch and f*cking moan about things


"I have solved this political dilemma in a very direct way: I don't vote. On Election Day, I stay home. I firmly believe that if you vote, you have no right to complain. Now, some people like to twist that around. They say, 'If you don't vote, you have no right to complain,' but where's the logic in that? If you vote, and you elect dishonest, incompetent politicians, and they get into office and screw everything up, you are responsible for what they have done. You voted them in. You caused the problem. You have no right to complain. I, on the other hand, who did not vote - who did not even leave the house on Election Day - am in no way responsible for what these politicians have done and have every right to complain about the mess that you created." - George Carlin
 
2012-10-26 12:39:11 PM
If a young person says BSAB, then they aren't voting.
If an old person says BSAB, then they are voting Republican.
 
2012-10-26 12:39:16 PM

pute kisses like a man: I can biatch and moan about the person I vote for. I can biatch and moan about the person you vote for. And, I can biatch and moan about anyone even though I never voted. There is no entrance fee for biatching. it's not a special club.

I can even biatch and moan about the weather.


And those you biatch to should tell you to STFU and GBTW. So presuming you're not voting, kindly STFU and GBTW.
 
2012-10-26 12:39:19 PM
If you don't vote, then in my mind, you have no right to complain about anything that happens in the next four years.
 
2012-10-26 12:39:22 PM
cdn.ebaumsworld.com

Add to non-voters those too lazy to think for themselves and instead vote for the nice man in a suit who says he represents Jesus with his plan to render orphans into pig feed.
 
2012-10-26 12:39:41 PM

shkkmo: I don't vote because I refuse to take part in a morally bankrupt sham.


So I get you think things are bad and hey, I agree with your assessment of the system. But you do realize what a system where you don't get to vote looks like though, right?
 
2012-10-26 12:39:42 PM

thewulf: God Is My Co-Pirate: If you don't vote, you simply have no right to complain about the government.

So you vote in the morons and I can't complain?

Oblig


No, you can't complain. You had a chance to voice your opinion, as other voters have, and you decided to ignore it completely. So no, no whining for you.
 
2012-10-26 12:39:52 PM
I'll just leave this here.
 
2012-10-26 12:40:04 PM
It doesn't matter anymore.

Neither party has our best interest in mind. Politicians are only in it for the money and power. The more they can gobble up, the better.

They don't give the first fark about "we the people".
 
2012-10-26 12:40:12 PM

kumanoki: Jacobin: Early voted two days ago. Not in a swing state, so it wasn't very satisfying.

I early v0ted yesterday, BcAuse I could...MAinly because I wanted to experience the release of tension.



The trick is to withhold gratification. It gets so much better.
 
2012-10-26 12:41:05 PM
What If I don't want to vote for any of the candidates?
 
2012-10-26 12:41:08 PM
Unless you're one of the lucky few in swing states, not voting really isn't that big of a deal.

Besides, if you vote, you have not right to complain about politics afterwards since your side won/lost fair and square. Not voting means that you have the moral high ground to biatch as much as you want without lowering yourself to participating in the system.
 
2012-10-26 12:41:39 PM

BronyMedic: If you don't vote, then in my mind, you have no right to complain about anything that happens in the next four years.


FTFY. The decisions made over the next 4 years will have impacts for decades or longer. For instance we're still finishing up GWBush's wars and we're going to be paying those and his other crap off for quite some time. Odds are the next POTUS gets one or two SCOTUS justices too.
 
2012-10-26 12:43:29 PM
Permanent mail in voter here. Voted from my easy chair with a beer at my side.

Swing state, voted for Gary Johnson.

Flame away.
 
2012-10-26 12:43:48 PM

Happy Hours: If anyone wants to send a message that the choices suck they should turn in a blank ballot.


I tried that once. The automated machine spit my ballot out because it was blank. I was pissed.
 
2012-10-26 12:44:02 PM

God Is My Co-Pirate: If you don't vote, you simply have no right to complain about the government.


I guess you only have Constitutionally sacred rights IF you vote.
 
2012-10-26 12:44:46 PM

kumanoki: Three words: National Voting Day three day weekend


FTFY
 
2012-10-26 12:44:58 PM
Early voted yesterday. At least I'll have a right to complain if and/or when things go horribly wrong.
 
2012-10-26 12:45:59 PM

Obbi: Happy Hours: If anyone wants to send a message that the choices suck they should turn in a blank ballot.

/will be voting.

That's...not a bad idea actually, can you actually do that?


//Doesn't vote, choices suck


See my above post. In my experience, it does not. This time I think I'll fill out a vote for one position and see if it will accept the ballot with the rest blank.
 
2012-10-26 12:46:11 PM
Do we really feel like we have a choice in something other than how we will be screwed??
 
2012-10-26 12:46:20 PM
FlashHarry: shiat like this just makes my blood farking boil. what farking arrogance. what farking laziness. what farking entitlement. when millions live under oppressive dictatorship around the world, to not exercise your sacred right of suffrage is just farking disgusting.

What if you have made a conscious decision not to vote?

What if you like the idea of voting, but believe that the partisan politics system of this country is basically a crock of shiat and that at the end of the day it doesn't matter who is in office because it's always a politician.

What if, because of partisan politics, you're basically voting for the jackass that you hate the least?

In short

lordargent.com

// roughly half of the people in my state don't vote
 
2012-10-26 12:46:23 PM
I really don't get people who don't vote, sure in some states (mine for example) Romney is all but guaranteed a win, but there are several very important local races and issues. These local races and issues have a much greater bearing on my quality of life than whoever is in the White House.
 
2012-10-26 12:46:59 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: we're the ones saving your stupid asses.


Oh, you hero. Because they couldn't just pretend people voted anyway.
 
2012-10-26 12:47:49 PM

rumpelstiltskin: Voting is a responsiblilty in a democracy, not a right.




Uhm, you have that backwards.
 
2012-10-26 12:48:20 PM

lordargent: What if you like the idea of voting, but believe that the partisan politics system of this country is basically a crock of shiat and that at the end of the day it doesn't matter who is in office


So you're asking what if you're stupid? Yeah, that's what we're saying. If you're stupid, you wouldn't vote. You would also believe things like "it doesn't matter who is in office."
 
2012-10-26 12:48:23 PM
cache0.bigcartel.com
 
2012-10-26 12:48:33 PM
I can think of a few good reasons not to vote, but every one of them involves active decisions: you deliberately choose not to vote for reasons you can articulate. TFA seems to take a more passive approach: not voting only because there are other priorities, or because of some perceived lack of reason to do so. That's ridiculous.

God Is My Co-Pirate: If you don't vote, you simply have no right to complain about the government.


The First Amendment says otherwise, but in any event, I'm forced to wonder: would you paint active nonvoters ("I don't vote, and this is why") and passive nonvoters ("Meh; whatever") with the same brush?
 
2012-10-26 12:48:56 PM

david_gaithersburg: rumpelstiltskin: Voting is a responsiblilty in a democracy, not a right.



Uhm, you have that backwards.


Actually it's both.
 
2012-10-26 12:49:11 PM

God Is My Co-Pirate: every single adult has the responsibility to decide what issues matter the most to them, and which candidate aligns most closely with their own views.


Okay I'll bite with this link to http://www.isidewith.com/. Hope they can keep up with the traffic.
 
2012-10-26 12:49:53 PM
Here's a thought:

Abolish political parties. Then we'll see what happens.
 
2012-10-26 12:50:06 PM
Voting does imply agreement with what some consider a broken system.

If I was considering organizing or participating in a revolution (for example), an 80% voter turnout would dissuade me. A 30% voter turnout would tell me others are just as dissatisfied and jaded as me. A 7% voter turnout would have me in the streets.

/one way of looking at it
 
2012-10-26 12:50:12 PM
The My Little Pony Killer : No, you can't complain. You had a chance to voice your opinion, as other voters have, and you decided to ignore it completely.

Opinions can not be adequately expressed by little checkboxes.
 
2012-10-26 12:50:28 PM
I would love to have the day off for the election. But I can eitehr go to the polls when they open at 7 am before work and I know they will be mobbed or Ill leave work a little early and go on my way home from work. I wish I worked closer to the polling place. But I should get there before 8pm so Ill be ok. I was actually suprised at the midterm election I got there right before the wave of last minute voters got there.
 
2012-10-26 12:50:45 PM
I don't know about you guys but our ballot will have other races other than presidential.

So yea sure my vote wont count for prez, but it will for all the county races...

And there is something to say about reports of the popular vote...
 
2012-10-26 12:51:10 PM

thewulf: Here's a thought:

Abolish political parties. Then we'll see what happens.


That's a good idea. We should all vote on it.
 
2012-10-26 12:51:14 PM

Obbi: Happy Hours: If anyone wants to send a message that the choices suck they should turn in a blank ballot.

/will be voting.

That's...not a bad idea actually, can you actually do that?

//Doesn't vote, choices suck


If you're putting a piece of paper into a box to be counted later, then yes: that's allowed, and even if it weren't allowed there would be no way to trace the blank ballot back to you. If you feed the ballot into a scanner to be counted immediately, or punching your vote into a screen, then it depends on the system: some will work, some won't.
 
2012-10-26 12:52:56 PM
Oh c'mon. My first time voting, and I'm waking up early (or just not going to bed) so I can beat the line to the polls before I go to class. 6am voting, yeeeaaahhh.
 
2012-10-26 12:57:01 PM

Happy Hours: FlashHarry: shiat like this just makes my blood farking boil. what farking arrogance. what farking laziness. what farking entitlement. when millions live under oppressive dictatorship around the world, to not exercise your sacred right of suffrage is just farking disgusting.

Who farking cares if someone else doesn't vote? If they can't be bothered they shouldn't vote.

And if anyone thinks they are sending a message by not voting the message is they can't be bothered. If anyone wants to send a message that the choices suck they should turn in a blank ballot.

/will be voting.


If you want to send a message, vote for a third party candidate. If all the people sitting out the electiong in protest were to do that, it would be a signficant enough percentage of the total vote to send the message, "We're farking tired of your bullshiat". Perhaps then the politician will actually pay attention us for a change.

A blank ballot suggests you aren't intelligent enough to understand how to vote.
 
2012-10-26 12:57:20 PM

qorkfiend: shkkmo: I don't vote because I refuse to take part in a morally bankrupt sham.

Yeah, that'll definitely fix the problem.


Nope, but it won't make it worse either.

The other things I do with my life have a much better chance of helping the problem. However, personally my only hope is that the maker community manages to make in home fab units a reality and then the pirate party can truly make a difference.

Until then I don't see much hope in the big picture so I focus on the small one.

/If Ron Paul had won the election, I definitely would have voted because that shiat would be hilarious.
 
2012-10-26 12:57:28 PM

FlashHarry: shiat like this just makes my blood farking boil. what farking arrogance. what farking laziness. what farking entitlement. when millions live under oppressive dictatorship around the world, to not exercise your sacred right of suffrage is just farking disgusting.


Every person who doesn't vote makes your vote that much stronger. Calm down.
 
2012-10-26 12:58:21 PM
I never understood the argument some people make in not voting: "The candidates are the same." In this case they are not, they are miles apart. "You always choose the lesser of two evils." No, there is clearly a decent, if not good candidate, and a morally and ethically bankrupt one. "My voice doesn't get heard, the electoral college is a joke." Well, there's still state, local, and community elections. There are also ballot initiatives and the judges and sheriffs of your district. When you abstain from voting in an election, you also give up on the things that directly affect you.

Presidential Elections are not only about the President, in fact, can be more beneficial to vote your representatives both federally and at the state and city levels.

/people who don't vote worry me, your vote can only do something. If you don't vote you're doing nothing to either solve, change, or voicing your opinion about current affairs.
 
2012-10-26 12:59:09 PM

qorkfiend: There is no case. "I'm too busy" is not a case for not voting; it's a case for you being lazy.


Look, it's not that I'm lazy. It's that I just don't care. Who am I supposed to vote for? Am I supposed to vote for the republican who is going to blast me in the ass or the democrat who is blasting my ass? Politics is one big ass blast. I say we pull up our bootstraps, oil up a couple of asses and do a little plowing of our own.

/Not gay sex
 
2012-10-26 12:59:19 PM

rumpelstiltskin: Voting is a responsiblilty in a democracy, not a right.


Actually voting is a constitutionally protected right.

FlashHarry: shiat like this just makes my blood farking boil. what farking arrogance. what farking laziness. what farking entitlement. when millions live under oppressive dictatorship around the world, to not exercise your sacred right of suffrage is just farking disgusting.


OH ya, so please explain to me why I should go vote. Seeing as how I'm in New York and my vote counts for a fraction of what a vote cast in Ohio counts for. Please go on and defend this asinine electoral system where peoples votes make no difference.
 
2012-10-26 12:59:20 PM

thewulf: Abolish political parties. Then we'll see what happens.


Then someone will win the presidency with something like 2% of votes.

/there are problems with all forms
//not a big fan of spending hundreds of millions to talk about how you'll cut wasteful spending.
 
2012-10-26 12:59:33 PM
The only way you can truly waste your vote...is to vote.
 
2012-10-26 12:59:47 PM

david_gaithersburg: rumpelstiltskin: Voting is a responsiblilty in a democracy, not a right.



Uhm, you have that backwards.


Would you say a Senator has a right or a responsibility to vote in the Senate?
 
2012-10-26 01:00:08 PM
From the arcile
"Lena Dunham is comparing voting to sex"

So that's why I'm not voting.
 
2012-10-26 01:00:21 PM

OgreMagi: A blank ballot suggests you aren't intelligent enough to understand how to vote.


A mismarked ballot, perhaps, but a blank one? That's fairly obviously deliberate. It's not as though it can be traced back to you anyway, and it's useful for the people who collect statistics on this sort of thing. It's for that last reason that I encourage people who choose not to vote to at least cast blank ballots.
 
2012-10-26 01:00:40 PM

maxx2112: [cache0.bigcartel.com image 477x473]


www.humanevents.com

They're trying.
 
2012-10-26 01:01:00 PM

Millennium: I can think of a few good reasons not to vote, but every one of them involves active decisions: you deliberately choose not to vote for reasons you can articulate. TFA seems to take a more passive approach: not voting only because there are other priorities, or because of some perceived lack of reason to do so. That's ridiculous.

God Is My Co-Pirate: If you don't vote, you simply have no right to complain about the government.

The First Amendment says otherwise, but in any event, I'm forced to wonder: would you paint active nonvoters ("I don't vote, and this is why") and passive nonvoters ("Meh; whatever") with the same brush?


Yes, because as mentioned above, if you genuinely don't like your choices, you can always spoil your ballot.

I can understand feeling that your vote doesn't matter if you live in a state that with a 99% probability of going a certain way - although I have to say your popular vote vs. electoral college system weirds me out. The thing is, your vote does matter. It gives legitimacy to the whole process. Otherwise you're saying "Eh, someone is going to govern me but I'll let other people decide who that is" and at that point, you might as well have a monarchy.
 
2012-10-26 01:01:26 PM
offmymeds Smartest
Funniest
2012-10-26 12:44:58 PM


Early voted yesterday. At least I'll have a right to complain if and/or when things go horribly wrong.




Well, I guess that's the important thing.
 
2012-10-26 01:01:49 PM

FlashHarry: shiat like this just makes my blood farking boil. what farking arrogance. what farking laziness. what farking entitlement. when millions live under oppressive dictatorship around the world, to not exercise your sacred right of suffrage is just farking disgusting.


You have the right to free speech, a right that people have also sacrificed for. You aren't obligated to run around yelling at people just because you can.
 
2012-10-26 01:02:24 PM

Mawson of the Antarctic: /people who don't vote worry me, your vote can only do something. If you don't vote you're doing nothing to either solve, change, or voicing your opinion about current affairs.


You're implying that voting is the only way to "solve, change or voice your opinion about current affairs".

This implication is A) patently false and B) its seeming truthfulness is part of the reason I refuse to Vote.
 
2012-10-26 01:02:30 PM
I can understand not voting from an anti-capitalist standpoint. Your vote is going toward a candidate that wants to maintain the same old capitalist system. On the other hand, writing someone in or voting third party has its merits.

The socialist organization that I am a member of has decided to endorse voting for Jill Stein, but not her platform.

Voting for democrats and republicans is feeding the corrupt system.

/Remember, the lesser of two evils is still evil.
 
2012-10-26 01:03:00 PM
mobile-cuisine.com
redsarmy.typepad.com

Now, that's something I can support!
 
2012-10-26 01:03:15 PM

groppet: I would love to have the day off for the election. But I can eitehr go to the polls when they open at 7 am before work and I know they will be mobbed or Ill leave work a little early and go on my way home from work. I wish I worked closer to the polling place. But I should get there before 8pm so Ill be ok. I was actually suprised at the midterm election I got there right before the wave of last minute voters got there.


I would really like to see the Polls be open for 24 consecutive hours Open at 7 P.M. on Monday close at 7 P.M. on Tuesday, it would give more people a chance to vote. My state has early voting so I voted last Friday when I had a day off.
 
2012-10-26 01:03:17 PM

lennavan: shkkmo: I don't vote because I refuse to take part in a morally bankrupt sham.

So I get you think things are bad and hey, I agree with your assessment of the system. But you do realize what a system where you don't get to vote looks like though, right?


Thanks to an untimely move to a new house in a different county and a requirement to update my driver's license, this year I won't be allowed to vote. Or are you talking about some other country?
 
2012-10-26 01:03:21 PM

FlashHarry: shiat like this just makes my blood farking boil. what farking arrogance. what farking laziness. what farking entitlement. when millions live under oppressive dictatorship around the world, to not exercise your sacred right of suffrage is just farking disgusting.


Oh, shut up.

I was extremely politically active for years. Before I could vote legally, I volunteered for political causes. From 18 onward, I voted in every election-- even the little local ones that everyone else ignored-- Because I had the idea that I was making some sort of difference.

And maybe in those little local elections I was making a difference. But in a Presidential election? A national election? I've learned better in the 23 years since I first filled in a ballot.

No matter who you vote for, the SAME PEOPLE will be running the world. The President is a celebrity face chosen by the true powers-that-be, and we cannot vote for or against those powers-that-be. They run the world as they see fit, and placate the rest of us with hollow elections that have ZERO effect on the big picture.

You say it's laziness, arrogance, and entitlement for me not to vote. I say it's pure, 100% childish naivety that motivates you to vote.

Here's what going to happen when the next Presidency begins: NOTHING DIFFERENT. Oh, sure, they'll say they're making changes, providing new possibilities, and pumping hope and sunshine up our asses, but then the bureaucratic process will kick in-- as it's designed to do-- and we'll get the same as we've always gotten from the powerful men in charge of this world: Just enough to keep us arguing with each other, participating in their economic design, and consuming like the complacent slugs our species became about two thousand years ago.

You say I'm an arrogant, lazy, entitled person for making the decision to opt out of the farce that is our election process. I say you're a naive fool who might as well be voting for unicorns and pots of gold at the end of rainbows, for all the good it will do you to vote. Further, I suggest that by participating and swallowing the lie they feed to you, you're in denial about your true effect on the state of the world.

I voted. I cheered for voting. I marched around proud that I "participated" in the process, and what did it get me? A lot of wasted energy. No advancements or improvements to the way of life for anyone. Wars, on schedule. Presidents who, once in office, don't seem to be anything more than middle-ground placeholders who are-- upon sharp evaluation-- no different than the last twenty or thirty men to hold the office. Senators and Representatives who live like kings and spend little time actually doing anything to fix the world because the point of their existence is to argue and stalemate and put on a show for the proles.

You want arrogance, laziness and entitlement? Look in the mirror, sir. You think by driving to a church or school gymnasium, filling out a sheet of paper, and then watching the results (if they're even really counted) as if it's a sports competition and you're cheering for your favorite team makes you better than people who have decided, once and for all, that they won't be suckered by this dog & pony show? That's arrogance, right there. You're proud of doing more to accomplish nothing. Congratulations. Enjoy your well-earned "I Voted" sticker. I hope it makes you feel warm and fuzzy, because that about as much "change" as you'll get from it.

The President, Congress, the Senate-- they're all ultimately powerless to make significant changes. They bow to their masters, just as you do. The only difference is that they get paid handsomely to be the face of the lie, while you get jack-shiat besides that warm, fuzzy feeling from "participating" in the process of maintaining the lie.

You might as well be biatching about people not voting for the winner of American Idol, for as much effect as politicians truly have on the world.

I'll vote again when we can vote the plutocrats and corporate overlords out of power. They're the guys in charge, and they have been since long before either you or I were born. Of course, since they maintain this whole show for the likes of you, and you're not likely to ever admit that you're being manipulated into a false sense of security instead of truly making a difference, the likelihood of the true lords of this planet being removed from power is hovering at about one in a trillion.

Do enjoy the "big finale" to the variety show this November. I hope it gives you a deep feeling of satisfaction. For me, it's yet another pile of horseshiat that was meant to distract me from the way things really are, and for the first time since 1989, I'm not participating. I'm done being suckered.
 
2012-10-26 01:03:55 PM

umad: turd sand


That's racist.
 
2012-10-26 01:04:30 PM

rumpelstiltskin: david_gaithersburg: rumpelstiltskin: Voting is a responsiblilty in a democracy, not a right.



Uhm, you have that backwards.

Would you say a Senator has a right or a responsibility to vote in the Senate?


That's his job, it's why he gets the big bribes bucks. A senator who routinely fails to vote does not deserve to remain in office.

/who does that remind you of?
 
2012-10-26 01:04:51 PM

rumpelstiltskin: Voting is a responsiblilty in a democracy, not a right.


But being informed is part of that responsibility, and too few do that.
 
2012-10-26 01:05:21 PM
Voted Libertarian in "08. Pointless waste of time.
 
2012-10-26 01:05:27 PM
 
2012-10-26 01:06:24 PM

God Is My Co-Pirate: Yes, because as mentioned above, if you genuinely don't like your choices, you can always spoil your ballot.

I can understand feeling that your vote doesn't matter if you live in a state that with a 99% probability of going a certain way - although I have to say your popular vote vs. electoral college system weirds me out. The thing is, your vote does matter. It gives legitimacy to the whole process. Otherwise you're saying "Eh, someone is going to govern me but I'll let other people decide who that is" and at that point, you might as well have a monarchy.



The other reason to vote, local elections, you my not like the presidential choices, but your vote could make the difference if your town has enough money to build a new school or repave that pothole strewn road you drive down every day and complain about.
 
2012-10-26 01:06:45 PM

kumanoki: I early v0ted yesterday, BcAuse I could...MAinly because I wanted to experience the release of tension.


There are better ways of releasing tension than voting...
 
2012-10-26 01:06:46 PM

Happy Hours: FlashHarry: shiat like this just makes my blood farking boil. what farking arrogance. what farking laziness. what farking entitlement. when millions live under oppressive dictatorship around the world, to not exercise your sacred right of suffrage is just farking disgusting.

Who farking cares if someone else doesn't vote? If they can't be bothered they shouldn't vote.

And if anyone thinks they are sending a message by not voting the message is they can't be bothered. If anyone wants to send a message that the choices suck they should turn in a blank ballot.

/will be voting.


Look, voting is important even if you don't like your choices for Prez. Write someone in, leave it blank, but there are usually just as important local issues on the ballot. Absentee voting by mail is allowed in 28 states (without excuse), early voting in person in 31 states (without excuse). Vote or at least be honest about why yyou arewnt.
 
2012-10-26 01:06:53 PM

doubled99: offmymeds Smartest
Funniest
2012-10-26 12:44:58 PM


Early voted yesterday. At least I'll have a right to complain if and/or when things go horribly wrong.



Well, I guess that's the important thing.


No, the important thing is that I exercised my right to vote.
 
2012-10-26 01:07:32 PM
TFA: If you don't vote," says Alicia Keys, "the whole world could just burn."

i.imgur.com

Case closed. Now I'm off to eat a Kit-Kat.
 
2012-10-26 01:07:46 PM

beer4breakfast: George Carlin doesn't vote

/oblig


no shiat, he's dead

...oh
 
2012-10-26 01:08:12 PM
If I were registered to vote, I'd send these clowns a message by staying home on election day and dressing up like a clown.
 
2012-10-26 01:08:13 PM

Oliver Twisted: thewulf: Here's a thought:

Abolish political parties. Then we'll see what happens.

That's a good idea. We should all vote on it.

 
2012-10-26 01:08:21 PM
Actually voted for the first time (aged 32). Didn't vote for any candidate for any race (save a write-in for President)*, but I did vote on most of the local/state initiatives (the ones of which I could understand the consequences).

*There was one local/state candidate identified as 'Independent' but their website conveyed no meaningful information about them (same with judges' websites)

/Not in a swing state
//Local races were almost exclusively unopposed candidates
///Will never vote for anyone with a party affiliation
 
2012-10-26 01:08:29 PM

Warlordtrooper: OH ya, so please explain to me why I should go vote. Seeing as how I'm in New York and my vote counts for a fraction of what a vote cast in Ohio counts for. Please go on and defend this asinine electoral system where peoples votes make no difference.


Aside from the obvious trolling attempt by saying that people's votes make no difference, your vote makes a difference anyway. This election has many more choices than just the President; you have local and statewide initiatives, judge retention, and constitutional amendments, as well as representatives from your state. The fact that so many aren't even mentioning those concerns in this discussion is terribly disturbing. Those races DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE in your daily life, and they're often decided by only a few votes, even in the most populous states.
 
2012-10-26 01:08:37 PM

darwinpolice: umad: turd sand

That's racist.


that's ignorant.
 
2012-10-26 01:11:00 PM

unyon: pute kisses like a man: I can biatch and moan about the person I vote for. I can biatch and moan about the person you vote for. And, I can biatch and moan about anyone even though I never voted. There is no entrance fee for biatching. it's not a special club.

I can even biatch and moan about the weather.

And those you biatch to should tell you to STFU and GBTW. So presuming you're not voting, kindly STFU and GBTW.


as a steward of liberty, I say, biatch and moan as you like, I also say, tell people to shut that fark up and go back to work as you like.

as a footsoldier of democracy, I say, I believe in a secret ballot. my voting practices are no one's farking business.

so, you can say stfu and gbtw, and I won't care about the statement. But, i do care that your justification is false. the antecedent to your justification for such statement is presumptive, ignorant, and in your case, unknowable. So, you should remove your justification and just say that you arbitrarily like to tell people to stfu and gbtw.
 
2012-10-26 01:11:01 PM

Tom_Slick: The other reason to vote, local elections, you my not like the presidential choices, but your vote could make the difference if your town has enough money to build a new school or repave that pothole strewn road you drive down every day and complain about.


I would vote in Local elections, but I've been itinerant for a while and I don't feel like I have a enough of a stake in any one community to have the right to vote on their issues. I'm currently in the processing of possibly settling down; maybe I'll vote local in the future.
 
2012-10-26 01:11:46 PM
I suspect all the "too cool to vote" guys are reasonably well-off straight white men.

Nobody can seriously claim that both parties are the same, when one party genuinely treats women and gays and ethnic minorities and poor people as somehow less than fully human.
 
2012-10-26 01:12:56 PM
Because all you people voting for someone based on the color of their skin, or how much of a tax break they promise you are SO much better than those of us who simply don't give a fark.
 
2012-10-26 01:13:53 PM
offmymeds Smartest
Funniest
2012-10-26 01:06:53 PM


doubled99: offmymeds Smartest
Funniest
2012-10-26 12:44:58 PM


Early voted yesterday. At least I'll have a right to complain if and/or when things go horribly wrong.



Well, I guess that's the important thing.

No, the important thing is that I exercised my right to vote.




Words, Empty words. No, the only important thing is you can puff yourself up by saying so afterwards and pretend you did something important.
 
2012-10-26 01:14:04 PM

ZeroCorpse: No matter who you vote for, the SAME PEOPLE will be running the world. The President is a celebrity face


upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-10-26 01:14:08 PM

God Is My Co-Pirate: Nobody can seriously claim that both parties are the same, when one party genuinely treats women and gays and ethnic minorities and poor people as somehow less than fully human.


Where as the other party does the same but manages to make us feel good about it?
 
2012-10-26 01:14:10 PM

Slartibeerfest: Think you vote matters, just ask an economist.

I still vote and I know it's futile.


Thanks for asking.

Your vote matters.

I have no doubt that at least 538 potential Gore voters in FL in 2000 felt exactly the same way you do today, they stayed home, and figured everything would be the same no matter who was president. We went from projected surpluses to record deficits, had an insane war with no reasonable justification whatsoever that cost us more than a trillion dollars, tortured people, and ignored any intelligence that didn't fit our pro-war stances. Would Gore have done things differently? We won't ever get the chance to know what he would have done because those people, that little tiny handful of people, felt just like you do.
 
2012-10-26 01:14:11 PM
37 here. never been registered, and have never rooted for the guy who lost.
 
2012-10-26 01:14:45 PM

mekkab: Oh, so you think voting actually matters?

Let me laugh even harder.


If 95% of the eligible voters did get off of their asses and voted, it certainly would.
 
2012-10-26 01:14:59 PM
Listen, you moronic cum stains. It's not about one vote determining the outcome. It's about representation. Every vote closer to 100% turnout means truer representation in government. 100% voter turnout means 100% true representation of the American people in our government. And if no-information voters go out and vote in idiots, then that's pretty representative isn't it?

And you're not just voting for president, idiots. I could make a strong argument that results of local races will have much more effect on your life than president. People need to care a lot more about who their city council member or state senator is than they currently do.

Farking vote, idiots.
 
2012-10-26 01:15:47 PM

midigod: Warlordtrooper: OH ya, so please explain to me why I should go vote. Seeing as how I'm in New York and my vote counts for a fraction of what a vote cast in Ohio counts for. Please go on and defend this asinine electoral system where peoples votes make no difference.

Aside from the obvious trolling attempt by saying that people's votes make no difference, your vote makes a difference anyway. This election has many more choices than just the President; you have local and statewide initiatives, judge retention, and constitutional amendments, as well as representatives from your state. The fact that so many aren't even mentioning those concerns in this discussion is terribly disturbing. Those races DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE in your daily life, and they're often decided by only a few votes, even in the most populous states.


I concede that local elections DO have an effect. Unfortunately, I'm severely outnumbered in my area, so my vote is a drop in the sea of opposing (and greatly misinformed) opinions.

But nationally? NO EFFECT. As Carlin put it, this country was bought, paid for, and divvied up long ago.
 
2012-10-26 01:15:55 PM

doubled99: offmymeds Smartest
Funniest
2012-10-26 01:06:53 PM


doubled99: offmymeds Smartest
Funniest
2012-10-26 12:44:58 PM


Early voted yesterday. At least I'll have a right to complain if and/or when things go horribly wrong.



Well, I guess that's the important thing.

No, the important thing is that I exercised my right to vote.



Words, Empty words. No, the only important thing is you can puff yourself up by saying so afterwards and pretend you did something important.


So you're not voting then?
 
2012-10-26 01:17:34 PM
images.huffingtonpost.com
Voting in CA is way more important than most other states. Yeah, our Presidential Electoral process is bunk, but we directly vote on shiat that has an immediate impact on our day to day lives. California ballot initiatives have had a greater effect on my everyday life than any specific act from a President. Also, the President usually needs permission from Congress to get anything done; a good President will persuade Congress and cut deals to get things done (of course sometimes those things are bunk).
 
2012-10-26 01:17:47 PM

shkkmo: darwinpolice: umad: turd sand

That's racist.

that's ignorant.


sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2012-10-26 01:18:16 PM

God Is My Co-Pirate: Perhaps you're uncomfortable, for reasons having to do with privilege and class, arguing that people have an obligation to be informed before they vote.

What shiattery is this?!

Of course you should be informed. Of course there's a huge amount of information, and no, not everybody is going to follow every political analysis and complex tax proposal by every candidate, but Jesus, every single adult has the responsibility to decide what issues matter the most to them, and which candidate aligns most closely with their own views.

If you don't vote, you simply have no right to complain about the government.


So you're saying roughly 67% of the country has no right to complain?

....just wondering
 
2012-10-26 01:18:39 PM
Every time I don't feel like voting, I think about the sacrifices people made to give me this privilege:


www.rethinkingschools.org

rone92q.files.wordpress.com

4.bp.blogspot.com

abagond.files.wordpress.com

vanessabyers.typepad.com

www.traviscountydemocrats.org


They thought this right was important enough to protest for, fight for, and die for. Gets me off the couch every time.
 
2012-10-26 01:18:40 PM

Jacobin: Early voted two days ago. Not in a swing state, so it wasn't very satisfying.


Same here... voted two days ago but my state is a swing state. NC went blue in '08... hoping the same for '12
 
2012-10-26 01:18:52 PM

pute kisses like a man: Aarontology: Happy Hours: FlashHarry: shiat like this just makes my blood farking boil. what farking arrogance. what farking laziness. what farking entitlement. when millions live under oppressive dictatorship around the world, to not exercise your sacred right of suffrage is just farking disgusting.
Who farking cares if someone else doesn't vote? If they can't be bothered they shouldn't vote.

Because they'll still biatch and f*cking moan about things

so?
I can biatch and moan about the person I vote for. I can biatch and moan about the person you vote for. And, I can biatch and moan about anyone even though I never voted. There is no entrance fee for biatching. it's not a special club.

I can even biatch and moan about the weather.


"Everybody complains about the weather, but nobody do anything about it." - C. D. Warner
 
2012-10-26 01:19:04 PM

MoronLessOff: ZeroCorpse: No matter who you vote for, the SAME PEOPLE will be running the world. The President is a celebrity face

[upload.wikimedia.org image 548x429]


EXACTLY.

Doug Adams got it.
 
2012-10-26 01:19:15 PM

Warlordtrooper: rumpelstiltskin: Voting is a responsiblilty in a democracy, not a right.

Actually voting is a constitutionally protected right.

FlashHarry: shiat like this just makes my blood farking boil. what farking arrogance. what farking laziness. what farking entitlement. when millions live under oppressive dictatorship around the world, to not exercise your sacred right of suffrage is just farking disgusting.

OH ya, so please explain to me why I should go vote. Seeing as how I'm in New York and my vote counts for a fraction of what a vote cast in Ohio counts for. Please go on and defend this asinine electoral system where peoples votes make no difference.


You should go vote. Marriage is legal and equal for everyone in NY because some people voted for the people who believe in expanding rights. Your property taxes depend on for whom you vote. Even in NY, your district's representative in the house answers to a relatively small handful of voters, including you. NY has some of the best pro-rated healthcare plans in the country for people who are poor, but don't qualify for medicaid thanks to a handful of state representatives elected by people just like you. The progress NY has made absolutely can be lost if you get complacent and a bunch of jackasses get into office.
 
2012-10-26 01:20:23 PM

I_Hate_Iowa: Listen, you moronic cum stains. It's not about one vote determining the outcome. It's about representation. Every vote closer to 100% turnout means truer representation in government. 100% voter turnout means 100% true representation of the American people in our government. And if no-information voters go out and vote in idiots, then that's pretty representative isn't it?

And you're not just voting for president, idiots. I could make a strong argument that results of local races will have much more effect on your life than president. People need to care a lot more about who their city council member or state senator is than they currently do.

Farking vote, idiots.


Wow. Now I absolutely have to make sure I get to the polls. This well written, eloquent statement as to why I should cast my ballot cannot be ignored. I must spread this message to my fellow Americans verbatim.
 
2012-10-26 01:20:36 PM

FlashHarry: shiat like this just makes my blood farking boil. what farking arrogance. what farking laziness. what farking entitlement. when millions live under oppressive dictatorship around the world, to not exercise your sacred right of suffrage is just farking disgusting.


Kids are starving in China so eat your vegetables? MOm, is that you?

But, seriously, attitudes like this turn people off to voting. I mean, really? You are disgusted by non-voters? Voting is 'sacred?' Give me a break. Voting is a right and not an obligation, just like owning a gun. But I'm sure you are not disgusted by people who don't own guns. Even for those who do vote, most have less chance of casting a meaningful ballot than winning the lottery. And for those people who don't care either way, I hope they don't vote. That would be a greater threat to democracy in my opinion. Someone casting a ballot for no reason other than to exercise their right is worse than someone who doesn't care staying away from the ballot box. Should we force everyone to vote? Do you not understand the irony in that?
 
2012-10-26 01:21:17 PM

ZeroCorpse:
Oh, shut up.


We get it. You're bitter. You're welcome to try to make things better, like a responsible person in society, or you can just wheeze and biatch about everything and sit back and not do anything.

Looks like you chose the latter. Good for you, but you're not really needed anymore. If you literally have no hope, no ambition to make a voting nation more civil, then there's no need for you.

Get the fark over it.
 
2012-10-26 01:22:04 PM
My brother has health care because of our current President.
Your brother may have died in a foreign county because of a former President.

You bet your farking ass you have an obligation to voice your opinion on these matters...

So do it.
 
2012-10-26 01:22:27 PM
I feel there's degrees to how much my vote counts.

Presidential elections - Pretty much nothing, although my state is starting to trend away from the expected person our electoral college would vote in. So maybe...who knows?

House/Senate - A bit more heated, and my vote actually can make somewhat of a difference. Not much, as generally the districts have their champions, but occasionally one of them will say some idiotic thing to get themselves in trouble and the other guy can muster enough votes to pull off an upset.

Local measures - We had a lot of them this year, and I think this is probably the most direct way my vote can actually count for something. It's a much smaller batch of votes to count, and often these measures get very close on election day.

So does your vote count? Sure, but maybe not in the grandiose way you're imagining. But when you're grousing and griping about who possibly passed a law upping your local sales tax or allowing criminals to sue their victims when they defend themselves? Well, you did, when you didn't vote against it because there was a Charles in Charge marathon on.
 
2012-10-26 01:23:01 PM
Hey, who do I vote for if I want legal weed?
 
2012-10-26 01:23:07 PM
If you believe that voting doesn't matter and have decided to not vote, how about you vote for who I'm voting for. Every one of you apathetics.

You already said it won't matter, so this won't change anything, right?.
 
2012-10-26 01:23:48 PM
It's true that the moment we turn our backs, the world, as Alicia Keys says, may burn. But among the many privileges of life in a stable democracy is the knowledge that it probably won't.

That is just great. Go ahead and do your yoga and read a book and fart around on f*cking Facebook all day, the rest of us will take care of that whole "democracy" thing - not that you care whether it's a democracy or military junta or an anarcho-syndicalist commune or whatever, just as long as you have your "me" time.

Listen, you lazy, complacent, irresponsible, freeloading, useless bint: I've re-read Moby Dick twice. Didn't keep me from making informed votes in every election of my adult life.
 
2012-10-26 01:23:59 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: No, you can't complain. You had a chance to voice your opinion


Not on a ballot, I didn't.
 
2012-10-26 01:24:14 PM
Stupid people in this thread: It doesn't matter who I vote for. They're all the same crooked politicians.

Tell that to every gay member of the armed forces that can now serve openly without worrying about being kicked out. Tell that to every person with a pre-existing condition that can find health insurance now. Tell that to the auto workers that didn't lose their jobs in 2009.

Grow up and use your farking brains instead of copping out because thinking is hard.
 
2012-10-26 01:24:29 PM

moefuggenbrew: Hey, who do I vote for if I want legal weed?


If you're serious, you should do research on it.

I'll give you a hint who NOT to vote for it you want legal weed, Romney/Obama.
 
2012-10-26 01:24:58 PM
What the fark are you people biatching about now? We have a mature, stable democracy - and one of the hallmarks of a stable democracy is consistency.

So, no matter who you vote for, you're going to get another Ivy-league lawyer beholden to Wall Street. See? Consistent.

/always at war with Eastasia
 
2012-10-26 01:25:12 PM
I'm not going to vote. My company gives me thre hours off on election day, so I am really looking forward to going into work at 11am on whatever day election day is.
 
2012-10-26 01:25:12 PM

ZeroCorpse: I concede that local elections DO have an effect. Unfortunately, I'm severely outnumbered in my area, so my vote is a drop in the sea of opposing (and greatly misinformed) opinions.

But nationally? NO EFFECT. As Carlin put it, this country was bought, paid for, and divvied up long ago.


I'm not buying that, because you're using the national portion of the election as an excuse for not voting at all. I would encourage you to go out and vote, even if only for the one or two things on the ballot you believe in. Leave the rest blank. Don't let the majority in your area believe that they own the entire opinion. You have to make your voice known. Please do it. It would genuinely mean something to me.
 
2012-10-26 01:25:46 PM

A challenger appears: What If I don't want to vote for any of the candidates?


There's more than candidates on the typical ballot, if your state allows ballot initiatives in the first place.

But yeah, usually all candidates on any ballot are total shiat and it's not worth it.
 
2012-10-26 01:26:26 PM

jigger: The My Little Pony Killer: No, you can't complain. You had a chance to voice your opinion

Not on a ballot, I didn't.


image.spreadshirt.com
 
2012-10-26 01:26:51 PM

God Is My Co-Pirate: If you don't vote, you simply have no right to complain about the government.


You've got it exactly backward.
 
2012-10-26 01:27:15 PM

a61sun: God Is My Co-Pirate: Perhaps you're uncomfortable, for reasons having to do with privilege and class, arguing that people have an obligation to be informed before they vote.

What shiattery is this?!

Of course you should be informed. Of course there's a huge amount of information, and no, not everybody is going to follow every political analysis and complex tax proposal by every candidate, but Jesus, every single adult has the responsibility to decide what issues matter the most to them, and which candidate aligns most closely with their own views.

If you don't vote, you simply have no right to complain about the government.

So you're saying roughly 67% of the country has no right to complain?

....just wondering


Perhaps I should have phrased that as "if you don't vote, nobody should respect your opinion on politics."

If someone misses voting because they had to rush their child to hospital or something, that's one thing, but if they just didn't care about who is governing them? Then fark them.
 
2012-10-26 01:29:08 PM
I may not vote, but in fairness, I don't complain about my taxes or really anything that voting would've changed.
 
2012-10-26 01:29:13 PM

FlashHarry: shiat like this just makes my blood farking boil. what farking arrogance. what farking laziness. what farking entitlement. when millions live under oppressive dictatorship around the world, to not exercise your sacred right of suffrage is just farking disgusting.


I vote by cheating and breaking the system every way I can get away with.
 
2012-10-26 01:29:20 PM
I wish this were on my DVR so I could fast forward through all this crap.

and the Carlin Quote up above, well played. I heard it yesterday on the comedy station.
 
2012-10-26 01:29:56 PM
This is the first election I'm voting in and I'm 31. I was either stationed overseas and didn't do the absentee ballot or I just could not 100% feel that someone running I could vote for and feel good about it. When I decided that this year I had to vote, I told people and was immediately congratulated until they found out I wasn't voting for who they were and I was told I was wasting my vote. That and I've been told I'm voting against MY interests.
 
2012-10-26 01:30:28 PM
I think many more people would vote if there was a "none of the above" option, even if there is only an incumbent listed.
 
2012-10-26 01:31:16 PM

GanjSmokr: If you're serious, you should do research on it.

I'll give you a hint who NOT to vote for it you want legal weed, Romney/Obama.


Yes, seriously.

Basically, I have no candidate to vote for then...? Because one of those two guys is going to win.
 
2012-10-26 01:32:12 PM
Voting isn't everything. In fact most of the gains made by the working class were not done via the ballot box.
 
2012-10-26 01:32:51 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: You enjoy said privileges because of all the other people who get off their entitled, lazy asses and vote. There's no reason for you not to. Absolutely none, and you can biatch about "haranguing" by pro-voters all you want, we're the ones saving your stupid asses.


offmymeds: Early voted yesterday. At least I'll have a right to complain if and/or when things go horribly wrong.


How can you complain,offmymeds? According to The My Little Pony Killer, you voters are saving us all.
 
2012-10-26 01:32:52 PM

God Is My Co-Pirate: Perhaps I should have phrased that as "if you don't vote, nobody should respect your opinion on politics."

If someone misses voting because they had to rush their child to hospital or something, that's one thing, but if they just didn't care about who is governing them? Then fark them.


What if they just don't believe in the efficacy of their single vote? Someone in California has zero chance of influencing the election. On top of that, even if your vote did effect the election, there is no guarantee that your candidate will try or be able to make the changes you want? People like to pretend that voting is a powerful act but if you really think about it, it makes you realize how ineffectual you really are.
 
2012-10-26 01:34:06 PM

Lando Lincoln: mekkab: Oh, so you think voting actually matters?

Let me laugh even harder.

If 95% of the eligible voters did get off of their asses and voted, it certainly would.


Well, that all depends on who's on the ballot, doesn't it?
 
2012-10-26 01:34:56 PM

Tat'dGreaser: This is the first election I'm voting in and I'm 31. I was either stationed overseas and didn't do the absentee ballot or I just could not 100% feel that someone running I could vote for and feel good about it. When I decided that this year I had to vote, I told people and was immediately congratulated until they found out I wasn't voting for who they were and I was told I was wasting my vote. That and I've been told I'm voting against MY interests.


This is exactly why I don't discuss politics.
 
2012-10-26 01:35:00 PM

insano: Voting is a right and not an obligation


The old saw about knowing your rights, all the while ignoring your obligations to those rights. The rights have to be enumerated on paper. The responsibilities are supposed to come from living in that enumerated society, in order to protect those rights.

Someone casting a ballot for no reason other than to exercise their right is worse than someone who doesn't care staying away from the ballot box.

Part of the responsibility is to have a reasonably informed picture of what's going on in your society, both greater and local. That's implied in this conversation, but it isn't said enough. But people have so much fun exercising their right to do whatever the fark they want at any given time, they completely forget about the responsibility portion. It's as though it doesn't even exist. The entitlement mentality of a person who thinks they have all the rights of a society and no responsibility to it is precisely what will destroy this country.

And that's exactly what people are talking about when they say that people get the government they deserve.
 
2012-10-26 01:35:58 PM

Pharmdawg: I think many more people would vote if there was a "none of the above" option, even if there is only an incumbent listed.


Or "anyone else". If you want to make a statement, get 1000 friends together and vote against every incumbent. May not help, but the parties do track the trending numbers of the incumbents they run for each office.
 
2012-10-26 01:36:16 PM

MoronLessOff: This is exactly why I don't discuss politics.


The best part is I didn't even tell them who I was voting for. I just said "guess who" and they assumed.
 
2012-10-26 01:36:31 PM

moefuggenbrew: GanjSmokr: If you're serious, you should do research on it.

I'll give you a hint who NOT to vote for it you want legal weed, Romney/Obama.

Yes, seriously.

Basically, I have no candidate to vote for then...? Because one of those two guys is going to win.


Gary Johnson is one of the candidates who would like to bring an end to the war on drugs. I'm not stupid, I know he isn't going to win. I just couldn't bring myself to vote for Romney or Obama because I disagree with both of them on ~50% of the issues, whereas I agree with Gary Johnson (and Ron Paul) on ~95% of the issues.

Find out who you actually agree with on the issues: http://www.isidewith.com

And to those who would call my vote "wasted" I counter that an actual "wasted" vote is one cast for someone you don't agree with. Voting for the lesser of 2 evils is still voting for evil.
 
2012-10-26 01:37:47 PM

God Is My Co-Pirate: a61sun: God Is My Co-Pirate: Perhaps you're uncomfortable, for reasons having to do with privilege and class, arguing that people have an obligation to be informed before they vote.

What shiattery is this?!

Of course you should be informed. Of course there's a huge amount of information, and no, not everybody is going to follow every political analysis and complex tax proposal by every candidate, but Jesus, every single adult has the responsibility to decide what issues matter the most to them, and which candidate aligns most closely with their own views.

If you don't vote, you simply have no right to complain about the government.

So you're saying roughly 67% of the country has no right to complain?

....just wondering

Perhaps I should have phrased that as "if you don't vote, nobody should respect your opinion on politics."

If someone misses voting because they had to rush their child to hospital or something, that's one thing, but if they just didn't care about who is governing them? Then fark them.


It's not that I don't care, I don't vote because even if I DO vote, it changes nothing.

And I care about respect for political opinions why? Will my voting change anyone's respect for my political opinion?

Will my ONE vote change ANYthing??
 
2012-10-26 01:38:24 PM

Well I use Mac/Linux...: Because all you people voting for someone based on the color of their skin, or how much of a tax break they promise you are SO much better than those of us who simply don't give a fark.


Yeah, pretty much.

Of course some peopel vote based on what they think will be best for the country, but go ahead and think yourself more sophisticated because you're lazy and don't think you should give anything back to the country like maybe ten minutes of your time each week to read real news.
 
2012-10-26 01:39:16 PM
I'm sure somebody has posted this already but...

No I won't if

"This is the best we can do folks".
 
2012-10-26 01:39:33 PM

doubled99: offmymeds Smartest
Funniest
2012-10-26 01:06:53 PM


doubled99: offmymeds Smartest
Funniest
2012-10-26 12:44:58 PM


Early voted yesterday. At least I'll have a right to complain if and/or when things go horribly wrong.



Well, I guess that's the important thing.

No, the important thing is that I exercised my right to vote.



Words, Empty words. No, the only important thing is you can puff yourself up by saying so afterwards and pretend you did something important.


And you can't even pretend.
 
2012-10-26 01:41:31 PM
Plenty of other things besides president/representative on the ballot here. At least you can vote no on all the idiotic propositions.

/Then watch them pass anyway
 
2012-10-26 01:41:33 PM

GanjSmokr: And to those who would call my vote "wasted" I counter that an actual "wasted" vote is one cast for someone you don't agree with. Voting for the lesser of 2 evils is still voting for evil.


The other saying is: "It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it."
 
2012-10-26 01:41:39 PM
The case for voting is very simple: The most intelligent and highest earning people in the world vote. I would prefer to be one of those people. Through the years, I have discarded my vote on John Anderson and Ross Perot. But I always vote.
 
2012-10-26 01:42:07 PM
Im more worried about a lot of the things ill be voting on for the state and local levels than who is president. In my state we have quaestions on gay marriage, in state tuition for illegal immigrants, expanding gambling and weather or not elected offcials can keep their jobs if they have been arrested during their term.
 
2012-10-26 01:42:09 PM
Californian here. I think that voting doesn't matter in California.

1. It is going Obama no matter what.
2. Last time around, we voted for a high speed rail from San Fransico / Sacrament to LA. What we are getting is a medium speed train (in 30-50 years) from fresno to bakersfield. At 10 times the price. And some BART cars in the bay area. We are not getting what we voted for. Not even close.
3. Many of the people we vote for appoint or are outright frauds. When they get caught, they get a slap on the wrist, and say "sorry". Then back to shenanigans.
4. There is no option to say "Don't fill the position". That would be the true test of a candidates worth. Right now, not marking any candidate goes in the trash.
5. Sometimes a seeming step in the right direction is actually a step in the wrong direction. eg. Prop 8? Gay marriage (2008?). Seemingly the way for more equal protection of rights would be to vote for gay marriage. But by voting for or against gay marriage you are silently reinforcing the stance that government should be involved in marriage. The true way to have equality would be to get government out of marriage entirely. But there was no option for that.
6. Most people are morons (maybe I am also, but too dumb to know). We have a GMO prop this time around. I cannot find one person in my social group that understands anything about genetic modification other than GMO badd grrrrr. Or see example 2, Trains good.
7. Local elections. See example 6. I go to certain meetings, as they effect the job that I do, and when these idiots have proposals or new ideas etc. None of them understand anything. Then when I get up to the podium and explain it to them, they glaze over like I am explaining fusion or ancient egyptian writing. Most of them cant figure out how to use an Ipad. by the way, they voted themselves all Ipads the previous month so that they could work more "efficiently". Calling them tards just gets you thrown out of the meeting.

8. I have come to the conclusion that government isn't meant for me. It is just an evil that I must navigate my way around because I like not living in a cave. Government is for and by people that can barely wipe themselves. if you think I am wrong, just watch daily show or colbert, most of our elected officials know nothing about what they are legislating.

9. should people vote? yes. Does it do anything? no.
 
2012-10-26 01:44:02 PM
Nightsweat Smartest
Funniest
2012-10-26 01:39:33 PM


doubled99: offmymeds Smartest
Funniest
2012-10-26 01:06:53 PM


doubled99: offmymeds Smartest
Funniest
2012-10-26 12:44:58 PM


Early voted yesterday. At least I'll have a right to complain if and/or when things go horribly wrong.



Well, I guess that's the important thing.

No, the important thing is that I exercised my right to vote.



Words, Empty words. No, the only important thing is you can puff yourself up by saying so afterwards and pretend you did something important.

And you can't even pretend.


Don't need to. But thanks for acknowledging the importance of casting that vote. So you can say stuff later and feel good.
 
2012-10-26 01:44:29 PM

jigger: GanjSmokr: And to those who would call my vote "wasted" I counter that an actual "wasted" vote is one cast for someone you don't agree with. Voting for the lesser of 2 evils is still voting for evil.

The other saying is: "It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it."


I like that and I will be using it. Thanks!
 
2012-10-26 01:44:32 PM

midigod: The old saw about knowing your rights, all the while ignoring your obligations to those rights. The rights have to be enumerated on paper. The responsibilities are supposed to come from living in that enumerated society, in order to protect those rights


Where in the constitution or the bill of rights does it state: "these are your inalienable rights that you are born with as a citizen of the United States, unless you do not protect them by voting"? Obligations and responsibilities are those things you must do or face punishment (Jury duty, paying taxes, etc.) Voting has no such obligation. I am voting, but do I have an obligation to do so? No.
 
2012-10-26 01:44:50 PM
I don't vote because it makes no difference who wins. Do I want the Democratic representative to sell my future to the greedy and further strip me of my civil liberties or do I want the Republican representative to do so? Decisions decisions. Or I could throw my vote away on a third party or write-in candidate. My cup runneth over...
 
2012-10-26 01:45:05 PM
I love all the 'civic duty patriots' around election time...

I wish they cared this farking much the rest of the time - we might not have some pseudo
choice for different sides of the same coin, or a different talking head on the same set of strings.

\Don't break a rib trying to blow yourselves, tools.
 
2012-10-26 01:45:48 PM

insano: midigod: The old saw about knowing your rights, all the while ignoring your obligations to those rights. The rights have to be enumerated on paper. The responsibilities are supposed to come from living in that enumerated society, in order to protect those rights

Where in the constitution or the bill of rights does it state: "these are your inalienable rights that you are born with as a citizen of the United States, unless you do not protect them by voting"? Obligations and responsibilities are those things you must do or face punishment (Jury duty, paying taxes, etc.) Voting has no such obligation. I am voting, but do I have an obligation to do so? No.


Also, protect rights from who? Other voters?
 
2012-10-26 01:46:08 PM
I have the right not to vote and f*ck you if you have a problem with me exercising that right no matter what reason I choose to exercise that right with.
 
2012-10-26 01:46:32 PM

GanjSmokr: jigger: GanjSmokr: And to those who would call my vote "wasted" I counter that an actual "wasted" vote is one cast for someone you don't agree with. Voting for the lesser of 2 evils is still voting for evil.

The other saying is: "It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it."

I like that and I will be using it. Thanks!


Why? If I do or don't vote I'm still going to get it.
 
2012-10-26 01:46:55 PM

Hobo Jr.: Alabamian voting for Obama.

I might as well throw my vote away.


Same here. Though fingers crossed my vote for Vance against Roy Moore will not be in vain.
 
2012-10-26 01:47:00 PM
I would've read Kerry Howley's stupid farking Slate piece about not voting because there are other things to do in the world, but I had better things to do with my time.

/like commenting about it on Fark
 
2012-10-26 01:47:07 PM

Honest Bender: I don't vote because it makes no difference who wins. Do I want the Democratic representative to sell my future to the greedy and further strip me of my civil liberties or do I want the Republican representative to do so? Decisions decisions. Or I could throw my vote away on a third party or write-in candidate. My cup runneth over...


I don't see how voting 3rd party would be "throwing away" your vote if you weren't going to vote anyway...

Throw Gary Johnson a vote. If he gets 5%, things might be more interesting next time around.
 
2012-10-26 01:47:24 PM
Maybe I just want to exercise my Constitutionally protected right not to vote.
 
2012-10-26 01:47:41 PM
rumpelstiltskin

Voting is a responsiblilty in a democracy, not a right.


Tell that to the groups in the history of the U.S. who fought for the right to have the responsibility to vote.

say it with me now.

Women
Black people.
 
2012-10-26 01:48:21 PM

Hobo Jr.: Alabamian voting for Obama.

I might as well throw my vote away.


This is how I feel too, but I still feel good casting my democratic vote in a red state. I mean if other democrats see that there were some other democratic votes then it will keep them from giving up too.
 
2012-10-26 01:48:55 PM

insano: Obligations and responsibilities are those things you must do or face punishment (Jury duty, paying taxes, etc.) Voting has no such obligation. I am voting, but do I have an obligation to do so? No.


Please reread my post. I said that the rights were enumerated, not the responsibilities. I'm sorry that you feel as though you have no responsibilities to this society other than those you'd face punishment for avoiding. Your attitude is all too common, and in its ignorance, proves my point.
 
2012-10-26 01:49:55 PM

insano: God Is My Co-Pirate: Perhaps I should have phrased that as "if you don't vote, nobody should respect your opinion on politics."

If someone misses voting because they had to rush their child to hospital or something, that's one thing, but if they just didn't care about who is governing them? Then fark them.

What if they just don't believe in the efficacy of their single vote? Someone in California has zero chance of influencing the election. On top of that, even if your vote did effect the election, there is no guarantee that your candidate will try or be able to make the changes you want? People like to pretend that voting is a powerful act but if you really think about it, it makes you realize how ineffectual you really are.


Well, up here in Canda we have (or had before Harper started dismantling it) a system where every single vote resulted in a per-vote subsidy - roughly $2 - to the party you voted for. Green, Separatist, Communist, you name it, your vote directly supported them, and that's how our parties were funded. I loved that because you could genuinely support a party that had no chance of actually winning any seats.
 
2012-10-26 01:50:35 PM

insano: Also, protect rights from who? Other voters?


Protect those rights from being removed. For your own sake, please take a civics class.
 
2012-10-26 01:50:51 PM

FlashHarry: shiat like this just makes my blood farking boil. what farking arrogance. what farking laziness. what farking entitlement. when millions live under oppressive dictatorship around the world, to not exercise your sacred right of suffrage is just farking disgusting.


*Yawn*

/I'll be sleeping in
 
2012-10-26 01:51:03 PM
Possible way to make it so your vote starts to count by making third party candidates more viable.

http://2-by-2.org/concept
 
2012-10-26 01:51:19 PM

moefuggenbrew: Basically, I have no candidate to vote for then...? Because one of those two guys is going to win.


If you think voting is only about picking a team that has the potential of winning, then yeah, you don't. But if you think like that then unless you live in a swing state, it doesn't really matter who you vote for anyway.
 
2012-10-26 01:51:46 PM
Cognitive. Dissonance. No thank you. I'll keep my vote.
 
2012-10-26 01:52:48 PM

Tat'dGreaser: MoronLessOff: This is exactly why I don't discuss politics.

The best part is I didn't even tell them who I was voting for. I just said "guess who" and they assumed.


Awesome. This is also why I stopped Facebook. I signed up right around the last election to keep in touch with a friend that was headed out of the country for a vacation. Shortly after that, every other message was political. I got sick of it and just stopped checking.
 
2012-10-26 01:53:12 PM

Tat'dGreaser: That and I've been told I'm voting against MY interests.


You voted against boobs!!??! You monster!
 
2012-10-26 01:53:17 PM
Here's a potentially long-term and powerful change we can create with our votes this year: 

www.garyjohnson2012.com/videos
 
2012-10-26 01:53:17 PM

nmemkha: [cdn.ebaumsworld.com image 555x448]

Add to non-voters those too lazy to think for themselves and instead vote for the nice man in a suit who says he represents Jesus with his plan to render orphans into pig feed.


Yes but that plan brings down the price of bacon, and I love bacon.
 
2012-10-26 01:53:19 PM
The Rs and Ds are yin and yang, reflexively taking opposing viewpoints on every single issue. If one says the sky is blue, the other must take the position that it is clearly green. However, they both acknowledge the agreement and actively fight to keep their relationship exclusive so that they can continue their good cop/bad cop act. I cannot support this system as it's no different in concept to the Soviet Communist Party choosing the one and only candidate for Premier.

I'll vote for a third party choice in the hope that one day, enough disaffected voters will get them over the hump to Federal Matching Funds. That's the best I can hope for. Also, it makes me feel like Don Quixote, which is nice.
 
2012-10-26 01:54:23 PM
Wow some people have built a nice warm little isolation bubble around themselves haven't they?

It must be nice to be so privileged that recent history and current events have impacted you in no way whatsoever.

Here is a hint folks. It's not a math problem. It's ebb and flow. It's a god damned grind. The things that you find troubling will not be repaired or replaced overnight. You have to wear the farkers down.

Or you can be a lazy coward and hide behind righteous indignation. It's your choice. You are most likely already wasting your life, why not waste your vote as well...
 
2012-10-26 01:54:24 PM

offmymeds: Early voted yesterday. At least I'll have a right to complain if and/or when things go horribly wrong.


Amusingly, that's actually the opposite of how parliamentary procedures generally work. By voting, you are agreeing to the terms of the vote, ie that the issue will be settled by the majority. You've agreed to the rules of the game, even if you lose.

To reserve the right to complain or revisit the issue later, you either find proof that the rules weren't followed, or you abstain from voting by declining your ballot.

PS: Not voting is not the same thing as declining your ballot. It's indicating that you don't care enough to show up, even though you were informed well in advance.

PPS: Spoiling your ballot is not the same thing as declining your ballot. Declining it indicates that you find all of the options presented to be unacceptable or you otherwise reject the voting rules. Spoiling your ballot indicates that you don't know how to use a voting machine.
 
2012-10-26 01:55:48 PM

spidermilk: Hobo Jr.: Alabamian voting for Obama.

I might as well throw my vote away.

This is how I feel too, but I still feel good casting my democratic vote in a red state. I mean if other democrats see that there were some other democratic votes then it will keep them from giving up too.


Plus if solid red states start to win by less and less of a margin in future elections, then eventually the GOP is going to have to defend a once solid red state.

So go and vote, even if you know Obama is not going to win in Alabama or Texas, etc.
 
2012-10-26 01:57:34 PM

correct horse battery staple: offmymeds: Early voted yesterday. At least I'll have a right to complain if and/or when things go horribly wrong.

Amusingly, that's actually the opposite of how parliamentary procedures generally work. By voting, you are agreeing to the terms of the vote, ie that the issue will be settled by the majority. You've agreed to the rules of the game, even if you lose.


You're not talking about the same thing. offmymeds wasn't talking about complaining that his guy won. He was talking about complaining if his guy didn't do the things he said he would, or was stymied by some other influences. So don't pretend you're arguing against him; you're arguing a completely different point.
 
2012-10-26 01:57:47 PM

FlashHarry: shiat like this just makes my blood farking boil. what farking arrogance. what farking laziness. what farking entitlement. when millions live under oppressive dictatorship around the world, to not exercise your sacred right of suffrage is just farking disgusting.


A plutocratic system that's corrupt to the core is just as bad as a dictatorship. Wake up and smell the reality - we don't live in a democracy anymore.
 
2012-10-26 01:58:00 PM
No pity for those who are 'too busy' to vote. I usually vote right after work at about 5:30-6 PM. It has never taken more than 10 minutes. If that was a problem I would go right after getting up or take an hour off of work to go vote.

As far as researching the candidates, if I don't have an idea already then when I get my sample ballot I look them up online and see how they run on the issues. If I really don't care or don't think I have enough info to make an informed decision then I don't vote on that single race.

And not voting because 'both candidates suck'? No. I'm voting Obama. I don't agree with all of his views. He is better than others though. I consider SCOTUS a huge reason for voting- in 2004 I couldn't determine who to vote for, but based my vote on who I wanted appointing justices.

Figure out what is most important to you and figure out who is going to do best on those things. If you spent half the time that you spent 'designing' your next tattoo on deciding who to vote for then I think you can do it.
 
2012-10-26 01:58:03 PM

Fast Thick Pants: You voted against boobs!!??! You monster!


Their rein of terror is OVER
 
2012-10-26 01:58:08 PM

GanjSmokr: I don't see how voting 3rd party would be "throwing away" your vote if you weren't going to vote anyway...


...seriously?
I outlined my three voting options: Corporate Whore #1, Corporate Whore #2, and 3rd party trashcan.
I don't vote for the reasons I stated in my previous post. But if I did vote, and voted for 3rd party, it would just be tossing my vote in the trash.
 
2012-10-26 01:58:25 PM

FlashHarry: what farking entitlement. when millions live under oppressive dictatorship around the world, to not exercise your sacred right of suffrage is just farking disgusting.


This same sentiment goes triple for people who try to get out of jury duty. Brag about it. Even discuss the best methods of subverting the process. Fark is full of them. If they are ever accused of a crime they should go to prison with the right to trial by jury.
 
2012-10-26 01:58:29 PM

Obbi: Happy Hours: If anyone wants to send a message that the choices suck they should turn in a blank ballot.

/will be voting.

That's...not a bad idea actually, can you actually do that?

//Doesn't vote, choices suck


All of them? Really? Are you so sure that you wouldn't want a Gary Johnson presidency that you can stay home?

That is what the Republican-Democratic Electoral Machine wants.
 
2012-10-26 02:00:55 PM

Millennium: God Is My Co-Pirate: If you don't vote, you simply have no right to complain about the government.

The First Amendment says otherwise, but in any event, I'm forced to wonder: would you paint active nonvoters ("I don't vote, and this is why") and passive nonvoters ("Meh; whatever") with the same brush?


I would. If only because most of these people later complain that the government isn't any good. Well, you get the government you voted for...or in this case, not.
 
2012-10-26 02:01:32 PM

IlGreven: Obbi: Happy Hours: If anyone wants to send a message that the choices suck they should turn in a blank ballot.

/will be voting.

That's...not a bad idea actually, can you actually do that?

//Doesn't vote, choices suck

All of them? Really? Are you so sure that you wouldn't want a Gary Johnson presidency that you can stay home?

That is what how the Republican-Democratic Electoral Machine wantsworks.


FTFY
 
2012-10-26 02:02:09 PM

IlGreven: Millennium: God Is My Co-Pirate: If you don't vote, you simply have no right to complain about the government.

The First Amendment says otherwise, but in any event, I'm forced to wonder: would you paint active nonvoters ("I don't vote, and this is why") and passive nonvoters ("Meh; whatever") with the same brush?

I would. If only because most of these people later complain that the government isn't any good. Well, you get the government you voted for...or in this case, not.


If you are an anti-capitalist what is the point of voting for capitalist candidates?
 
2012-10-26 02:02:23 PM

Honest Bender: GanjSmokr: I don't see how voting 3rd party would be "throwing away" your vote if you weren't going to vote anyway...

...seriously?
I outlined my three voting options: Corporate Whore #1, Corporate Whore #2, and 3rd party trashcan.
I don't vote for the reasons I stated in my previous post. But if I did vote, and voted for 3rd party, it would just be tossing my vote in the trash.


Yes, seriously... you left out the last line of my post:

Throw Gary Johnson a vote. If he gets 5%, things might be more interesting next time around.

Unless you like being limited to the choices of CW1 and CW2 (which it seems you don't), do something to initiate change. If Gary Johnson gets 5% of the vote this time, we could see some change next time around.
 
2012-10-26 02:03:12 PM

hugram: spidermilk: Hobo Jr.: Alabamian voting for Obama.

I might as well throw my vote away.

This is how I feel too, but I still feel good casting my democratic vote in a red state. I mean if other democrats see that there were some other democratic votes then it will keep them from giving up too.

Plus if solid red states start to win by less and less of a margin in future elections, then eventually the GOP is going to have to defend a once solid red state.

So go and vote, even if you know Obama is not going to win in Alabama or Texas, etc.


Not to mention, the more moderates stay home, the more the crazies get to determine the election, and the more they get courted by future politicians.
 
2012-10-26 02:04:20 PM

correct horse battery staple: offmymeds: Early voted yesterday. At least I'll have a right to complain if and/or when things go horribly wrong.

Amusingly, that's actually the opposite of how parliamentary procedures generally work. By voting, you are agreeing to the terms of the vote, ie that the issue will be settled by the majority. You've agreed to the rules of the game, even if you lose.

To reserve the right to complain or revisit the issue later, you either find proof that the rules weren't followed, or you abstain from voting by declining your ballot.

PS: Not voting is not the same thing as declining your ballot. It's indicating that you don't care enough to show up, even though you were informed well in advance.

PPS: Spoiling your ballot is not the same thing as declining your ballot. Declining it indicates that you find all of the options presented to be unacceptable or you otherwise reject the voting rules. Spoiling your ballot indicates that you don't know how to use a voting machine.


In the grown up world, pouting is usually unsuccessful. If you don't like the rules of the game, you have to play by the rules to change the rules. If instead you decide to go sit in the corner and cry, we'll just ignore you.
 
2012-10-26 02:04:47 PM

FarkedOver: IlGreven: Millennium: God Is My Co-Pirate: If you don't vote, you simply have no right to complain about the government.

The First Amendment says otherwise, but in any event, I'm forced to wonder: would you paint active nonvoters ("I don't vote, and this is why") and passive nonvoters ("Meh; whatever") with the same brush?

I would. If only because most of these people later complain that the government isn't any good. Well, you get the government you voted for...or in this case, not.

If you are an anti-capitalist what is the point of voting for capitalist candidates?


There are at least two Communist candidates on most ballots, if you want one.
 
2012-10-26 02:05:44 PM

midigod: correct horse battery staple: offmymeds: Early voted yesterday. At least I'll have a right to complain if and/or when things go horribly wrong.

Amusingly, that's actually the opposite of how parliamentary procedures generally work. By voting, you are agreeing to the terms of the vote, ie that the issue will be settled by the majority. You've agreed to the rules of the game, even if you lose.

You're not talking about the same thing. offmymeds wasn't talking about complaining that his guy won. He was talking about complaining if his guy didn't do the things he said he would, or was stymied by some other influences. So don't pretend you're arguing against him; you're arguing a completely different point.


In fairness, I think we're both making assumptions about what offmymeds actually meant, but I understand where you're coming from.
 
2012-10-26 02:05:57 PM

Honest Bender: GanjSmokr: I don't see how voting 3rd party would be "throwing away" your vote if you weren't going to vote anyway...

...seriously?
I outlined my three voting options: Corporate Whore #1, Corporate Whore #2, and 3rd party trashcan.
I don't vote for the reasons I stated in my previous post. But if I did vote, and voted for 3rd party, it would just be tossing my vote in the trash.


..,thank you for furthering the agenda of corporate whores. Probably more than those who actually vote for them.
 
2012-10-26 02:05:59 PM

midigod: insano: Also, protect rights from who? Other voters?

Protect those rights from being removed. For your own sake, please take a civics class.


So you avoid actually making a point and just attack my knowledge of civics...

When you say I need to vote to protect my rights from being removed, then you imply that there are other voters who want to take away my rights. Do they have the same 'responsibility' to vote to take away my rights? Are peoples' rights at odds with each other? No! But you knew that already Mr. civics professor.

Of course I don't expect you to actually defend your contention, only to call me ignorant again.
 
2012-10-26 02:06:11 PM

jigger: The My Little Pony Killer: You enjoy said privileges because of all the other people who get off their entitled, lazy asses and vote. There's no reason for you not to. Absolutely none, and you can biatch about "haranguing" by pro-voters all you want, we're the ones saving your stupid asses.

offmymeds: Early voted yesterday. At least I'll have a right to complain if and/or when things go horribly wrong.

How can you complain,offmymeds? According to The My Little Pony Killer, you voters are saving us all.


politicalgroove.com
 
2012-10-26 02:07:24 PM

The Case for Not Voting
By Kerry Howley
Posted Friday, Oct. 26, 2012


And there you have it.....Rehashed Story #12,345 for this election season by a journalist with nothing better to write about until after the polls close.

Next Up: The mysterious tie-in between the Electoral College, the popular vote being discounted and the Illuminati sponsored Cheesy Poofs. Coincidence? I think not.

Film at 11. 

And just think....on 11/7, we all will have a renewed set of reasons to hate each other for the next 4 years. I am so excited, and I just can't hide it, I'm about to lose control and I think I like it....
 
2012-10-26 02:07:57 PM

IlGreven: FarkedOver: IlGreven: Millennium: God Is My Co-Pirate: If you don't vote, you simply have no right to complain about the government.

The First Amendment says otherwise, but in any event, I'm forced to wonder: would you paint active nonvoters ("I don't vote, and this is why") and passive nonvoters ("Meh; whatever") with the same brush?

I would. If only because most of these people later complain that the government isn't any good. Well, you get the government you voted for...or in this case, not.

If you are an anti-capitalist what is the point of voting for capitalist candidates?

There are at least two Communist candidates on most ballots, if you want one.


Depends on which communist party. If it's a stalinist organization HELL NO! (CPUSA is a Stalinist organization but they have endorsed Obama). If it is the Sparts.... HELL NO! They approve of pedophilia.
 
2012-10-26 02:09:22 PM

midigod: Please reread my post. I said that the rights were enumerated, not the responsibilities. I'm sorry that you feel as though you have no responsibilities to this society other than those you'd face punishment for avoiding. Your attitude is all too common, and in its ignorance, proves my point.


Exactly, they are not enumerated by law, which means they are not responsibilities. I understand that you are attempting to derive responsibility from some higher abstract notion of duty to country or democracy, but that's not the way it works. I am no more obligated to vote than I am to pray to god.
 
2012-10-26 02:10:45 PM

m1ke: Who am I supposed to vote for? Am I supposed to vote for the republican who is going to blast me in the ass or the democrat who is blasting my ass? Politics is one big ass blast. I say we pull up our bootstraps, oil up a couple of asses and do a little plowing of our own.


There's a couple/few third party candidates.

If everyone that was disgusted like you are voted third party, we'd actually get enough votes (I think it's 5% popular vote) to get the federal funding.
 
2012-10-26 02:10:51 PM
When we get out of the stone age and switch to a popular vote I'll consider voting. Until then, it's not that I can't be bothered, I just don't see any reason to participate in the farce. And no, I don't mind the contempt and disdain of the voting nazis, I have plenty of both for them as well.
 
2012-10-26 02:12:25 PM

Honest Bender: GanjSmokr: I don't see how voting 3rd party would be "throwing away" your vote if you weren't going to vote anyway...

...seriously?
I outlined my three voting options: Corporate Whore #1, Corporate Whore #2, and 3rd party trashcan.
I don't vote for the reasons I stated in my previous post. But if I did vote, and voted for 3rd party, it would just be tossing my vote in the trash.


If you don't vote at all, you're still tossing it in the trash; same net. The difference being throwing it away on a 3rd party candidate can't be played off as laziness in the press when looking at turnout and results. It's the difference between, "I'll throw my vote away" and "I'll throw my vote away and remind you I think you're all corporate whores."
 
2012-10-26 02:12:53 PM

shkkmo: Tom_Slick: The other reason to vote, local elections, you my not like the presidential choices, but your vote could make the difference if your town has enough money to build a new school or repave that pothole strewn road you drive down every day and complain about.

I would vote in Local elections, but I've been itinerant for a while and I don't feel like I have a enough of a stake in any one community to have the right to vote on their issues. I'm currently in the processing of possibly settling down; maybe I'll vote local in the future.


If you pay any tax to your community, directly or indirectly, you have a stake in that community. That includes rent (your landlord passes property taxes on to you), sales tax and auto registration fees. You interact with cops -- do you prefer them good or bad?
 
2012-10-26 02:13:26 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----------
lennavan Smartest
Funniest
2012-10-26 02:04:20 PM


correct horse battery staple: offmymeds: Early voted yesterday. At least I'll have a right to complain if and/or when things go horribly wrong.

Amusingly, that's actually the opposite of how parliamentary procedures generally work. By voting, you are agreeing to the terms of the vote, ie that the issue will be settled by the majority. You've agreed to the rules of the game, even if you lose.

To reserve the right to complain or revisit the issue later, you either find proof that the rules weren't followed, or you abstain from voting by declining your ballot.

PS: Not voting is not the same thing as declining your ballot. It's indicating that you don't care enough to show up, even though you were informed well in advance.

PPS: Spoiling your ballot is not the same thing as declining your ballot. Declining it indicates that you find all of the options presented to be unacceptable or you otherwise reject the voting rules. Spoiling your ballot indicates that you don't know how to use a voting machine.

In the grown up world, pouting is usually unsuccessful. If you don't like the rules of the game, you have to play by the rules to change the rules




In a situation where a "game" is fixed, you don't decide the rules, and yet will suffer the same consequences as all, an intelligent person will simply refuse to play the game anymore.
 
2012-10-26 02:14:47 PM
If I didn't live in Ohio, I'd vote Green, I think. Since I do, though, I have to vote *against* Rmoney. It could get 1% tight this year, and I don't want to fark it up. I would encourage everyone not in a swing state to vote 3rd party, though.
 
2012-10-26 02:15:23 PM

lennavan: In the grown up world, pouting is usually unsuccessful. If you don't like the rules of the game, you have to play by the rules to change the rules. If instead you decide to go sit in the corner and cry, we'll just ignore you.


In an attempt to increase voter turnout, a popular mantra has been that if you do not participate in the electoral process, you do not have the right to complain about the outcome. I was amused by this as it is the opposite of how decision making through voting is framed by parliamentarians. I am aware that things are fundamentally different at federal and non-federal levels. Apparently I'm just easily amused.
 
2012-10-26 02:15:56 PM
The candidate i want, Gary Johnson (L), has been sued off the ballot by the Republicans in my state. So why would I waste my time voting when I refuse to vote for Obama or Romney, and can't vote for the candidate i want?
 
2012-10-26 02:16:00 PM
Not registered, not voting, never voted, not going to vote.

Until we have something that isn't a two party system, I am not going to bother with it. Neither party represents my interests, nor do any third parties.

Not all non-voters are lazy or stupid. I will keep complaining because there is a LOT wrong with this country that has nothing to do with Democratic or Republican politics.
 
2012-10-26 02:18:23 PM

FlashHarry: shiat like this just makes my blood farking boil. what farking arrogance. what farking laziness. what farking entitlement. when millions live under oppressive dictatorship around the world, to not exercise your sacred right of suffrage is just farking disgusting.


I tried this on the wife and let her know that there were plenty of women out there that had no man to feed and keep them warm at night. Apparently, 'there are starving kids in africa' type of logic does not work in many instances.
 
2012-10-26 02:18:56 PM
Found this article to be funny.

Link

Should be headlined: Florida and Ohio. Tell us what it's like to live in a democratic society.
 
2012-10-26 02:19:09 PM

SweetSaws: The candidate i want, Gary Johnson (L), has been sued off the ballot by the Republicans in my state. So why would I waste my time voting when I refuse to vote for Obama or Romney, and can't vote for the candidate i want?


Which state is that? Last I checked, Gary Johnson was on 48 state ballots with OK having nobody but O/R (with no write ins) and MI allows a write in of GJ.
 
2012-10-26 02:19:09 PM
why would a rich person like Katy Perry vote Democrat? once your rich you're supposed to vote Republican. she probably is having trouble paying her bills.
 
2012-10-26 02:21:14 PM

Beerbarian: Pharmdawg: I think many more people would vote if there was a "none of the above" option, even if there is only an incumbent listed.

Or "anyone else". If you want to make a statement, get 1000 friends together and vote against every incumbent. May not help, but the parties do track the trending numbers of the incumbents they run for each office.


Apparently, Nevada actually does that: Link
 
2012-10-26 02:24:36 PM

insano: When you say I need to vote to protect my rights from being removed, then you imply that there are other voters who want to take away my rights.


Don't be silly, it's the politicians who want to take away your rights.
 
2012-10-26 02:25:54 PM

ZeroCorpse: Doug


"It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."

--Douglas Adams
 
2012-10-26 02:25:59 PM

doubled99: --------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----------
lennavan Smartest
Funniest
2012-10-26 02:04:20 PM


correct horse battery staple: offmymeds: Early voted yesterday. At least I'll have a right to complain if and/or when things go horribly wrong.

Amusingly, that's actually the opposite of how parliamentary procedures generally work. By voting, you are agreeing to the terms of the vote, ie that the issue will be settled by the majority. You've agreed to the rules of the game, even if you lose.

To reserve the right to complain or revisit the issue later, you either find proof that the rules weren't followed, or you abstain from voting by declining your ballot.

PS: Not voting is not the same thing as declining your ballot. It's indicating that you don't care enough to show up, even though you were informed well in advance.

PPS: Spoiling your ballot is not the same thing as declining your ballot. Declining it indicates that you find all of the options presented to be unacceptable or you otherwise reject the voting rules. Spoiling your ballot indicates that you don't know how to use a voting machine.

In the grown up world, pouting is usually unsuccessful. If you don't like the rules of the game, you have to play by the rules to change the rules



In a situation where a "game" is fixed, you don't decide the rules, and yet will suffer the same consequences as all, an intelligent person will simply refuse to play the game anymore.


I have no issue with someone who decides to leave the country.
 
2012-10-26 02:27:38 PM

dcigary: ZeroCorpse: Doug

"It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."

--Douglas Adams


that's why President Barack Hussein Obama was annointed at Birth with Presidential Serum
8 mg for 8 whole years
 
2012-10-26 02:28:17 PM

insano: When you say I need to vote to protect my rights from being removed, then you imply that there are other voters who want to take away my rights.


I imply no such thing. There are many other players who would love to take away your right to vote, and in fact, they've already begun in a couple of states, by trying to pass legislation that would make many local offices by appointment instead of by ballot. A weak democracy is always in danger from the outside, as well as from within. In fact there are many who would say that the two-party system intensifies that danger, since there are so few choices, and the result of such an election may be that one of the candidates chips away at the rights of the citizenry, hopefully without anyone objecting. But wait - that already happens EVERY DAY. It's only because of watchdogs publicizing these moves, and a concerned electorate reacting, that they do not take over and erode our rights. Please don't tell me you don't see those things happening, because they do, at all levels of government.

Of course I don't expect you to actually defend your contention, only to call me ignorant again.

Sorry to disappoint you on both counts, but yes, you do appear ignorant.

derive responsibility from some higher abstract notion of duty to country or democracy, but that's not the way it works.

Actually, yes, that was precisely the way our Founding Fathers intended it to work. That you choose to ignore what their vision was is another indication that you need more education. You cannot simply deny that something happened, and then live in that constructed society as if it didn't. It did happen. It was intended that way. I could give you quotes, but I'd prefer to have you look them up. Please believe me, they are there.
 
2012-10-26 02:31:22 PM

ProfessorOhki: If you don't vote at all, you're still tossing it in the trash; same net.


Yes. That's exactly the point I was trying to make. That the difference between voting and not voting is the same as leaving a piece of trash in the trash can vs. picking it up and selecting a different trash can to put it in.

But apparently I have a civic duty to select which trash can my trash should be put into. Regardless of the fact that it's all going to the landfill.
 
2012-10-26 02:32:25 PM

GanjSmokr: moefuggenbrew: Hey, who do I vote for if I want legal weed?

If you're serious, you should do research on it.

I'll give you a hint who NOT to vote for it you want legal weed, Romney/Obama.


Roseanne Barr (Yes, THAT Roseanne Barr *from TV* ) is on the list of presidential candidates this time around and I know she is for legalizing weed. So far thats the only one I know of.
 
2012-10-26 02:32:44 PM
Alabamian voting for Obama.

I might as well throw my vote away.


AK here and in the same situation. I consider my presidential vote to be a big FU to the right wing nuts. Doesn't do anything, but makes me feel better. (local races still matter)


They say, 'If you don't vote, you have no right to complain,' but where's the logic in that? If you vote, and you elect dishonest, incompetent politicians, and they get into office and screw everything up, you are responsible for what they have done. You voted them in. You caused the problem. You have no right to complain. I, on the other hand, who did not vote - who did not even leave the house on Election Day - am in no way responsible for what these politicians have done and have every right to complain about the mess that you created." - George Carlin

I like Carlin, unfortunately he has a logic problem here. Elections are the ONLY time when your political opinion can be taken seriously by those in office. By not voting you ARE responsible for who gets in because you could have cast your vote to stop them. If the big two are not to your liking, you could have let it be known by voting 3rd party. Politicians see the numbers and percents as a gauge on how well people like what they are doing. If they lose a significant number to third party they may rethink their platforms or hold back their more extreme positions. If they get a landslide (because people who disagreed stayed home) they'll enact the more extreme measures and feel that they are doing what people want. By not voting, you are telling politicians that they don't have to consider your opinion at all. By voting (even third party) you tell them that you are politically active and COULD support them at some future time if they change what they support.

I don't vote for the reasons I stated in my previous post. But if I did vote, and voted for 3rd party, it would just be tossing my vote in the trash.

No it isn't. It expresses a discontent. Not voting expresses indifference. One says "Hey, I don't like what you are doing" and the other says "You're fine, just doe whatever". While 1 person's discontent is not going to change things, If everyone who was discontent voted 3rd party, you'd scare the socks of the established parties.
 
2012-10-26 02:33:22 PM

Jacobin: Early voted two days ago. Not in a swing state, so it wasn't very satisfying.


If things keep going the way thay have been, by Election Day the only non-swing states will be red ones...
 
2012-10-26 02:33:23 PM
In a situation where a "game" is fixed, you don't decide the rules, and yet will suffer the same consequences as all, an intelligent person will simply refuse to play the game anymore.

I have no issue with someone who decides to leave the country




Don't use analogies if you are incapable of understanding them.
 
2012-10-26 02:34:37 PM
Well, it looks like I will not be voting this year, because I will have job interviews on the west coast, and it's really late for an absentee ballot.

/Was trying to work the election, but when it screws up 3 days right in the middle of "on-site season", that is just not happening.
//Really hope the city isn't too screwed by my dropping out so late.
///Seriously, if anyone in the Farmington government is reading this, I really, really apologize. i got an offer with a deadline of November 16th, and so I'm moving the entire week of Thanksgiving into the 3 days around election day.
 
2012-10-26 02:34:40 PM

Honest Bender: Yes. That's exactly the point I was trying to make. That the difference between voting and not voting is the same as leaving a piece of trash in the trash can vs. picking it up and selecting a different trash can to put it in.


Good analogy. The difference between voting and not voting is the same as leaving an aluminum can in the trash can versus picking up the aluminum can and selecting a different trash can, say perhaps the recycling trash can, to put it in. Because as it turns out, while both your recycling trash can and trash can are similar, they're not equal.
 
2012-10-26 02:35:46 PM

doubled99: Nightsweat Smartest
Funniest
2012-10-26 01:39:33 PM


doubled99: offmymeds Smartest
Funniest
2012-10-26 01:06:53 PM


doubled99: offmymeds Smartest
Funniest
2012-10-26 12:44:58 PM


Early voted yesterday. At least I'll have a right to complain if and/or when things go horribly wrong.



Well, I guess that's the important thing.

No, the important thing is that I exercised my right to vote.



Words, Empty words. No, the only important thing is you can puff yourself up by saying so afterwards and pretend you did something important.

And you can't even pretend.

Don't need to. But thanks for acknowledging the importance of casting that vote. So you can say stuff later and feel good.


I'm sorry, I can't hear you. And neither can anyone else.
 
2012-10-26 02:35:54 PM
I was planning to vote, but now I'm seriously considering Tom Hanks' offer.
 
2012-10-26 02:35:55 PM

GanjSmokr: Throw Gary Johnson a vote. If he gets 5%, things might be more interesting next time around.

Unless you like being limited to the choices of CW1 and CW2 (which it seems you don't), do something to initiate change. If Gary Johnson gets 5% of the vote this time, we could see some change next time around.


I've just GOT to ask... what's your logic behind this? That if Random Dude gets a paltry number of votes, somehow it'll shake up the whole corrupt system?

IlGreven: ..,thank you for furthering the agenda of corporate whores. Probably more than those who actually vote for them.


I know, right? I mean, I could help to elect the next corporate shill or I could vote for someone who has ZERO chance of being elected. Surely that is somehow better than just abstaining... Tell me, how is my voting (vs. not voting) going to stick it to the corrupt political system?
 
2012-10-26 02:38:06 PM

Kittahinaborx: GanjSmokr: moefuggenbrew: Hey, who do I vote for if I want legal weed?

If you're serious, you should do research on it.

I'll give you a hint who NOT to vote for it you want legal weed, Romney/Obama.

Roseanne Barr (Yes, THAT Roseanne Barr *from TV* ) is on the list of presidential candidates this time around and I know she is for legalizing weed. So far thats the only one I know of.


who's she running with MC Hammer??
 
2012-10-26 02:38:28 PM

lennavan: directly addressing the number one reason for bankruptcy,


Really? Uninsured people were the number one reason for bankruptcy?

Maybe you can show us a link to a webpage that backs up this assertion.
 
2012-10-26 02:38:51 PM

Honest Bender: ProfessorOhki: If you don't vote at all, you're still tossing it in the trash; same net.

Yes. That's exactly the point I was trying to make. That the difference between voting and not voting is the same as leaving a piece of trash in the trash can vs. picking it up and selecting a different trash can to put it in.

But apparently I have a civic duty to select which trash can my trash should be put into. Regardless of the fact that it's all going to the landfill.


You keep leaving out / ignoring / dismissing the fact that if Gary Johnson gets enough "throw away" votes, it changes the game next presidential election. It's NOT the same trash can. In the Gary Johnson trash can, there's a chance it's going to make some change.  There's a chance you might actually get a "choice" next presidential election if enough of us do this.
 
2012-10-26 02:40:03 PM
Done in one, honestly. The very idea that there is, somehow, a case for not voting is ludicrous. Without a vote, you have no true representation - even "conscientious objection" to the railed electoral process is pointless unless you add your nudge to the electoral shove needed to change the direction of that juggernaut.
 
2012-10-26 02:40:14 PM

lennavan: Good analogy. The difference between voting and not voting is the same as leaving an aluminum can in the trash can versus picking up the aluminum can and selecting a different trash can, say perhaps the recycling trash can, to put it in. Because as it turns out, while both your recycling trash can and trash can are similar, they're not equal.


Really? Because if you pay close attention, you'll notice that the garbage truck pulls up, dumps all the containers in the back of his truck, and drives it to the landfill where it's all dumped into the same shiathole.
 
2012-10-26 02:41:29 PM

GanjSmokr: You keep leaving out / ignoring / dismissing the fact that if Gary Johnson gets enough "throw away" votes, it changes the game next presidential election.


Is this some sort of bad joke I'm not in on? I'm just going to assume yes. Or your a troll. Or both.
 
2012-10-26 02:41:32 PM
Warlordtrooper

rumpelstiltskin: Voting is a responsiblilty in a democracy, not a right.

Actually voting is a constitutionally protected right.

Care to quote the Article and Section that appears in?
 
2012-10-26 02:42:15 PM
I live in Oklahoma. This election, like almost every presdiential election, features no 3rd party presidential candidates and write-in votes are not allowed. I dont want to vote for either presidential candidate so what do I do?

Oklahoma has a minimum 50,000 signatures required to get a presidential candidate (one of the highest in the country) on the ballot and one of only 5 states not allowing write-ins. Until something is done at the state level to include 3rd party candidates abstaining from presidential voting seems the only logical and ethical option.
 
2012-10-26 02:42:17 PM

The Southern Logic Company: Not registered, not voting, never voted, not going to vote.

Until we have something that isn't a two party system, I am not going to bother with it.


I'm not being an asshole, I promise, but do you think the two party system is just going to magically go away? Then you can swing by and vote for your perfect candidate? We have to make the change happen, not just sit by and watch these pricks run our country into the ground.
 
2012-10-26 02:43:41 PM

lennavan: I already voted but I'm thinkin of writing a nice trolly letter to Obama and a some IL Democrats:

Dear Mr President,

As an enthusiastic supporter of yours I just wanted to wish you the best of luck in the election. You have turned the country's economy around, made the country more secure, provided equal rights for many, improved health insurance directly addressing the number one reason for bankruptcy, amongst many other great accomplishments. I can only hope for four more years just like this. Unfortunately I will not be voting, I can't get off of work that day.

Hugs,
~Lenny


Lennmeister. 78% of people filing for bankruptcy had medical insurance.
 
2012-10-26 02:43:45 PM

Honest Bender: GanjSmokr: Throw Gary Johnson a vote. If he gets 5%, things might be more interesting next time around.

Unless you like being limited to the choices of CW1 and CW2 (which it seems you don't), do something to initiate change. If Gary Johnson gets 5% of the vote this time, we could see some change next time around.

I've just GOT to ask... what's your logic behind this? That if Random Dude gets a paltry number of votes, somehow it'll shake up the whole corrupt system?


If Gary Johnson gets 5% of the popular vote, the Libertarian party will be entitled to matching federal funds (about $90 million) from the Federal Government next presidential election.

Again, unless you enjoy being tied to the 2 choices of (R) guy and (D) guy that are being essentially forced upon you, throw your vote away on Gary Johnson.
 
2012-10-26 02:44:09 PM

signaljammer: Here in Il, the good guys are polling way ahead.


Nice.
 
2012-10-26 02:44:21 PM

lennavan
I'm sorry, I can't hear you. And neither can anyone else.




and yet you keep responding somehow.
So you're incapable of even understanding your own words.



/nice effort, though
 
2012-10-26 02:44:25 PM
I'm sure that if I wrote my vote on the back of $1,000,000 campaign contribution that it would actually count for something. But being poor, I could cast my ballot into a paper shredder and nothing would change.
 
2012-10-26 02:44:27 PM

FlashHarry: shiat like this just makes my blood farking boil. what farking arrogance. what farking laziness. what farking entitlement. when millions live under oppressive dictatorship around the world, to not exercise your sacred right of suffrage is just farking disgusting.


And that right there is reason enough not to vote. So some douchenozzle who has no farking right pushing his views on others can get filled with self-righteous indignation. fark you right in your inflamed brown eye with a rusty cheese grater FlashHarry! It's not up to you to decide if I vote or not.
 
2012-10-26 02:45:21 PM

midigod: I could give you quotes


Just for insano, here are a few. They're not all Founding Fathers, but the ones who aren't are still eminently qualified:

"Now more than ever before, the people are responsible for the character of their Congress. If that body be ignorant, reckless and corrupt, it is because the people tolerate ignorance, recklessness and corruption. If it be intelligent, brave and pure, it is because the people demand these high qualities to represent them in the national legislature.... If the next centennial does not find us a great nation ... it will be because those who represent the enterprise, the culture, and the morality of the nation do not aid in controlling the political forces."
- James Garfield

"To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men."
- Abraham Lincoln

"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine

"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government."
- Thomas Paine

A nation, as a society, forms a moral person, and every member of it is personally responsible for his society.
- Thomas Jefferson, Founding Father and third U.S. president (1743-1826), in a letter to George Hammond, 1792

"We the People are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts--not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
- Abraham Lincoln

This country will not be a good place for any of us to live in unless we make it a good place for all of us to live in.
- Theodore Roosevelt, American adventurer and 26th president (1858-1919)

Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost.
- John Quincy Adams

"The jaws of power are always open to devour, and her arm is always stretched out, if possible, to destroy the freedom of thinking, speaking, and writing."
- John Adams

"If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams

"If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin."
- Samuel Adams

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
- Thomas Jefferson to Charles Yancey, 1816 

/peace out
 
2012-10-26 02:45:24 PM

GanjSmokr: Honest Bender: ProfessorOhki: If you don't vote at all, you're still tossing it in the trash; same net.

Yes. That's exactly the point I was trying to make. That the difference between voting and not voting is the same as leaving a piece of trash in the trash can vs. picking it up and selecting a different trash can to put it in.

But apparently I have a civic duty to select which trash can my trash should be put into. Regardless of the fact that it's all going to the landfill.

You keep leaving out / ignoring / dismissing the fact that if Gary Johnson gets enough "throw away" votes, it changes the game next presidential election. It's NOT the same trash can. In the Gary Johnson trash can, there's a chance it's going to make some change.  There's a chance you might actually get a "choice" next presidential election if enough of us do this.


Yep. It's not like we only have two Presidential candidates. On my ballot, I counted eight different sets of Presidential & Vice-Presidential candidates. Vote for one whose values you support. If you think "voting for someone that is going to lose anyway" somehow equals "throwing away your vote", you don't really understand the electoral process - sure, your guy won't win, but the point is to ensure that your guy, or your party, or your set of values, morals, and/or ethics remain represented in future elections, too.

If you're not voting at all, you're undermining the electoral process. You don't care who represents you.
 
2012-10-26 02:45:29 PM
I'll go out and vote when my ballot matters as much as one from Ohio or Florida, and not a day sooner.

I don't care about our throw-away third party, and Johnson's ideas don't particularly impress me anyways. I don't plan on living here much longer so the local stuff isn't relevant to me either.
 
2012-10-26 02:46:07 PM
To hear of women of all people not voting pisses me right the hell off. Do you know the violence women in this country suffered for decades in order to vote? Do you know in how many countries on the earth this day would kill a woman rather than let her vote? Historically women have been told you don't have the mind to vote because of your vagina. What the hell is wrong with you non-voters? I don't care who the hell you vote for, but if you have a vagina and don't vote then you support everyone that does violence to women.

/not all that much of an exaggeration.
 
2012-10-26 02:46:46 PM

Nutsac_Jim: lennavan: directly addressing the number one reason for bankruptcy,

Really? Uninsured people were the number one reason for bankruptcy?

Maybe you can show us a link to a webpage that backs up this assertion.


Well. Medical expenses were the #1 cause for bankruptcy in the US

"but a new study done by Harvard University suggests that more than 62% of all personal bankruptcies are caused by the cost of over-whelming medical expenses."

http://www.giveforward.com/blog/medical-expenses-top-cause-of-bankrup t cy-in-the-united-states
 
2012-10-26 02:47:22 PM
There are better things I can do with my time like serve in a soup kitchen, work for habitat for humanity, help a friend going through a divorce, oh and research the procedure for opening a grand cayman bank account and investment company.

I have read alot of these comments, and comments by others, but nobody has managed to convince me how becoming informed (the real time commitment) or even standing in line for a day just to fill out more paperwork is a good use of my time.

Almost every single benefit I get from government is from the state. The only federal benefit I know of that I benefit from is the military. And before anybody says anything, I consider social security a tax. I am not counting on it for shiat.
 
2012-10-26 02:47:29 PM

Nutsac_Jim: lennavan: directly addressing the number one reason for bankruptcy,

Really? Uninsured people were the number one reason for bankruptcy?

Maybe you can show us a link to a webpage that backs up this assertion.


I didn't say uninsured people. I said health insurance, see for instance preexisting conditions and lifetime benefit caps. Insured people go bankrupt because of their health insurance too.

1. Medical Expenses

A study done at Harvard University indicates that this is the biggest cause of bankruptcy, representing 62% of all personal bankruptcies. One of the interesting caveats of this study shows that 78% of filers had some form of health insurance, thus bucking the myth that medical bills affect only the uninsured.


Link

You can google "united states reason for bankruptcy" if you would like a different reference.
 
2012-10-26 02:49:30 PM
I approve of Katy Perry in a short, tight-ish dress.
 
2012-10-26 02:50:04 PM

Jon iz teh kewl: Kittahinaborx: GanjSmokr: moefuggenbrew: Hey, who do I vote for if I want legal weed?

If you're serious, you should do research on it.

I'll give you a hint who NOT to vote for it you want legal weed, Romney/Obama.

Roseanne Barr (Yes, THAT Roseanne Barr *from TV* ) is on the list of presidential candidates this time around and I know she is for legalizing weed. So far thats the only one I know of.

who's she running with MC Hammer??


Nope, according to the sample ballot I got sent she is running with Cindy Sheehan. Besides MC Hammer (Pants) would be way too religious for her (I think he is now a preacher last I checked). She is kind of hippyish and living on a farm in Hawaii selling nuts. They'd clash big time and we have fights in the White House, hmmm come to think about it that'd be entertaining.
 
2012-10-26 02:50:12 PM

Nutsac_Jim: lennavan: I already voted but I'm thinkin of writing a nice trolly letter to Obama and a some IL Democrats:

Dear Mr President,

As an enthusiastic supporter of yours I just wanted to wish you the best of luck in the election. You have turned the country's economy around, made the country more secure, provided equal rights for many, improved health insurance directly addressing the number one reason for bankruptcy, amongst many other great accomplishments. I can only hope for four more years just like this. Unfortunately I will not be voting, I can't get off of work that day.

Hugs,
~Lenny

Lennmeister. 78% of people filing for bankruptcy had medical insurance.


Nutface, it's up there in bold for you to re-read. I said health insurance was the number one reason. That includes not having health insurance as well as having health insurance that doesn't cover enough.
 
2012-10-26 02:50:31 PM

Kittahinaborx: Jon iz teh kewl: Kittahinaborx: GanjSmokr: moefuggenbrew: Hey, who do I vote for if I want legal weed?

If you're serious, you should do research on it.

I'll give you a hint who NOT to vote for it you want legal weed, Romney/Obama.

Roseanne Barr (Yes, THAT Roseanne Barr *from TV* ) is on the list of presidential candidates this time around and I know she is for legalizing weed. So far thats the only one I know of.

who's she running with MC Hammer??

Nope, according to the sample ballot I got sent she is running with Cindy Sheehan. Besides MC Hammer (Pants) would be way too religious for her (I think he is now a preacher last I checked). She is kind of hippyish and living on a farm in Hawaii selling nuts. They'd clash big time and we have fights in the White House, hmmm come to think about it that'd be entertaining.


but.. Hammertime
 
2012-10-26 02:50:44 PM
Joseph Stalin ... the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything.
 
2012-10-26 02:51:11 PM

OnlyM3: Warlordtrooper

rumpelstiltskin: Voting is a responsiblilty in a democracy, not a right.

Actually voting is a constitutionally protected right.

Care to quote the Article and Section that appears in?


15th, 19th, 26th, amendments all protect the right to vote. Most rights only need one amendment. The right to vote has 3. You can argue a few others also are involved in the right to vote but these three are the most direct.
 
2012-10-26 02:53:47 PM

lennavan: Nutsac_Jim: lennavan: directly addressing the number one reason for bankruptcy,

Really? Uninsured people were the number one reason for bankruptcy?

Maybe you can show us a link to a webpage that backs up this assertion.

I didn't say uninsured people. I said health insurance, see for instance preexisting conditions and lifetime benefit caps. Insured people go bankrupt because of their health insurance too.

1. Medical Expenses

A study done at Harvard University indicates that this is the biggest cause of bankruptcy, representing 62% of all personal bankruptcies. One of the interesting caveats of this study shows that 78% of filers had some form of health insurance, thus bucking the myth that medical bills affect only the uninsured.

Link

You can google "united states reason for bankruptcy" if you would like a different reference.


Ummm this means nothing. "Some form of health insurance" doesn't mean that they didn't go bankrupt for medical reasons. Most people have garbage health insurance plans won't cover them in a variety of situations, still causing them to go bankrupt.

Correlation != Causation
 
2012-10-26 02:54:55 PM
I usually don't vote in Presidential elections, because my vote literally does not count. I live in a massively liberal state, and even is 50,000 more like me voted, it would not make a difference. Vermont.

Think about CA, millions of peoples' vote does not count at all. Electoral college really needs to go.
 
2012-10-26 02:55:10 PM

midigod: midigod: I could give you quotes

Just for insano, here are a few. They're not all Founding Fathers, but the ones who aren't are still eminently qualified:

"Now more than ever before, the people are responsible for the character of their Congress. If that body be ignorant, reckless and corrupt, it is because the people tolerate ignorance, recklessness and corruption. If it be intelligent, brave and pure, it is because the people demand these high qualities to represent them in the national legislature.... If the next centennial does not find us a great nation ... it will be because those who represent the enterprise, the culture, and the morality of the nation do not aid in controlling the political forces."
- James Garfield

"To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men."
- Abraham Lincoln

"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine

"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government."
- Thomas Paine

A nation, as a society, forms a moral person, and every member of it is personally responsible for his society.
- Thomas Jefferson, Founding Father and third U.S. president (1743-1826), in a letter to George Hammond, 1792

"We the People are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts--not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
- Abraham Lincoln

This country will not be a good place for any of us to live in unless we make it a good place for all of us to live in.
- Theodore Roosevelt, American adventurer and 26th president (1858-1919)

Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost.
- John Quincy Adams

"The jaws of power are always open to devour, and her arm is always stretched out, if possible, to destroy the freedom of thinking, speaking, and writing."
- John Adams

"If ye love wealth greater than liberty, th ...


I agree with all of those, and yet don't vote.
 
2012-10-26 02:55:14 PM
Congressional races people! Congress actually has a bigger impact on your life than the President.

Living in indiana, my vote for president is meaningless. However, the senate and house races will be close.

The fact that only about half as many people vote in midterm elections is proof to me most people don't have a farking clue how their government works.
 
2012-10-26 02:56:16 PM
not voting.

No party in this election is going to do anything to make my life any better. As a matter of fact, since most of the country seems to think that Americans living oversees are basically tax dodgers, neither party ever will.

Neither party will fix the fatca or fbar laws, and neither is going to force any US student loan lender to start accepting payments from foreign bank accounts. (one company seriously told me to send them money via Western Union)

Neither party is going to do anything about the US visa process.

And, no I don't care one iota about the local elections that would be on my ballot.

4 years ago, I left those blank as it was.
 
2012-10-26 02:56:48 PM
dl.dropbox.com
 
2012-10-26 02:57:02 PM

DECMATH: God Is My Co-Pirate: every single adult has the responsibility to decide what issues matter the most to them, and which candidate aligns most closely with their own views.

Okay I'll bite with this link to http://www.isidewith.com/. Hope they can keep up with the traffic.


that's awesome. You mean I can go go a website and tell them what I think, that way the appropriate politician can have targetted google ads sent to every page i view, asking for money?
 
2012-10-26 02:57:08 PM
I'm not voting due to fear of being mugged by picketers
 
2012-10-26 02:57:40 PM
I've never voted and in all likelihood, I never will. Why? Because in order for me to vote for someone, we have to share 100% of the same values, ideals, and opinions on EVERYTHING. I'm not about to give my vote to someone simply because I disagree with him or her less than the other guy.
 
2012-10-26 02:57:55 PM
The choices aren't good enough to make me wanna
make my name and new address available from the voter registration.
 
2012-10-26 02:58:38 PM
So, let's sum up.

Between the electoral college, gerrymandering, the two-party system that supports both, media companies that have ideological agendas in their reporting, voters who only think 1 or 2 issues are important, parties that appeal to their "base" by spouting off the most inane misinformation/insanity, and a system of primaries that ensures only certain kinds of candidates even end up in the main election, I am still supposed to be pleased that I live in a country where I can "vote," nevermind the lack if real impact it would have in my district and state.

So, if I don't vote I'm supposed to endure the insults of those who do choose to participate in the existing system (whose problems I outlined above) by voting for either Democrats or Republicans when neither party wants to correct the problems. And I'm supposed to endure the ridicule of those who vote for third-party candidates when that just skews election results towards either Republicans or Democrats, rather than accomplishing any real change.

In short, I am supposed to participate in the coming election by going to a poll and voting for the incumbents of the party that dominates my gerrymandered district because they mostly ran unopposed in their primary. I can vote for the opposition party, but since my district is drawn with scientific precision, the opposition party in my district has about $5 in funding an will earn a whopping 17% of the vote. Not only will that not make a difference, the system is set up so that the incumbents don't even have to worry about what a significant portion of their constituents think. Since the party leadership controls, to a great degree, who can even run or get support during primaries, it's not like I can vote in the primaries to get a candidate I like. Unopposed incumbents give me no real choice. And when it comes to the presidential election, I'm supposed to obediently march to the polls and vote for someone, even though my state will go for Romney. It doesn't matter if I am a die-hard Republican because enough Republicans will vote to ensure that Romney gets 100% credit for the state. It doesn't matter if I'm a Democrat because Romney will still get 100% credit for the state. Hell, I could be officially a Libertarian or Green, and it still won't matter because winner takes all. 

I see all those pictures of brave people trying to vote despite roadblocks in their path. I salute those brave souls. But you know what? I don't feel any guilt about not voting on election day, as I haven't for the past 10 years. Because I know, deep down inside, that at least I don't participate in a system that pretends to give people a choice when, in fact, it does nothing of the sort. It's not that Democrats and Republicans are the same (in many ways they are not), it's that they both hold on to political power using the same tools, tools which are designed to reduce the impact of my vote, not enhance it.

So, if you self-righteous "I'm disgusted at you because you don't vote" types want to feel that way, knock yourselves out. But I'll be sitting at home with a smug smile on my face because I'll know that I may not have voted, but at least I did not participate in the facade of representative government and help lend it legitimacy. If you bothered to vote in gerrymandered districts or states that are not swing states, congratulations. You helped lend legitimacy to a system that does not really represent the people. Still feel so smug?

You folks in swing states can at least have some impact, so knock yourselves out. And if you live in a real district, please vote. But for the 75% of us stuck in bullshiat districts and winner-take all states, spare us your sanctimonious "you don't vote because you're stupid" remarks. No, I don't vote because my money and time would be better spent sending a check to a PAC that can buy advertising in a swing state, you ass.
 
2012-10-26 02:58:44 PM

Nutsac_Jim: DECMATH: God Is My Co-Pirate: every single adult has the responsibility to decide what issues matter the most to them, and which candidate aligns most closely with their own views.

Okay I'll bite with this link to http://www.isidewith.com/. Hope they can keep up with the traffic.

that's awesome. You mean I can go go a website and tell them what I think, that way the appropriate politician can have targetted google ads sent to every page i view, asking for money?


OR you could go to that website, tell them what you think, find out who you actually agree with in terms of issues, and use Adblock.
 
2012-10-26 02:58:45 PM
I especially like this one,

"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine

because, my lack of time or energy to vote is in large part to the significant effort I spend preserving my freedom to enjoy the fruits of my labor against the government trying to tax it all away.
 
2012-10-26 02:59:00 PM

firefly212: The one thing the 2000 election taught me was that every once in a while, these things really do make a huge difference. Trillions of dollars of spending on destroying governments and rebuilding nations halfway around the world while neglecting our own citizens because of a supposed lack of funding... I voted this year, and I will vote every two years for the rest of my life.

If 538 more Floridians had voted for Gore, who knows what we could have had instead of Iraq.


Ah yes, 2000, the last year my American friends voted third party on principle. And probably never will again.
 
2012-10-26 02:59:13 PM

gadian: To hear of women of all people not voting pisses me right the hell off. Do you know the violence women in this country suffered for decades in order to vote? Do you know in how many countries on the earth this day would kill a woman rather than let her vote? Historically women have been told you don't have the mind to vote because of your vagina. What the hell is wrong with you non-voters? I don't care who the hell you vote for, but if you have a vagina and don't vote then you support everyone that does violence to women.

/not all that much of an exaggeration.


Who gives a fark what other people fought for? They fought for something THEY cared about. I didn't ask them too. People have suffered violence for standing up for gay rights. Does that mean I'm obligated to go out and have homo sex, since someone else fought for that right?
 
2012-10-26 02:59:35 PM

thewulf: Ummm this means nothing.


So you disagree with me? Okay, do continue.

thewulf: "Some form of health insurance" doesn't mean that they didn't go bankrupt for medical reasons.


Yeah, I agree. That completely supports what I was saying.

thewulf: Most people have garbage health insurance plans won't cover them in a variety of situations, still causing them to go bankrupt.


Yeah, I agree. That completely supports what I was saying. Wait, I thought you were going to disagree with me?
 
2012-10-26 03:00:35 PM

kindms: Nutsac_Jim: lennavan: directly addressing the number one reason for bankruptcy,

Really? Uninsured people were the number one reason for bankruptcy?

Maybe you can show us a link to a webpage that backs up this assertion.

Well. Medical expenses were the #1 cause for bankruptcy in the US

"but a new study done by Harvard University suggests that more than 62% of all personal bankruptcies are caused by the cost of over-whelming medical expenses."

http://www.giveforward.com/blog/medical-expenses-top-cause-of-bankrup t cy-in-the-united-states


4 out of 5 people with medical bankruptcies had insurance. So, not much was really done.
If I cut off both your legs, it doesnt matter much whether you had insurance or not.
 
2012-10-26 03:02:01 PM

doubled99: lennavan
I'm sorry, I can't hear you. And neither can anyone else.



and yet you keep responding somehow.
So you're incapable of even understanding your own words.



/nice effort, though


I didn't post that. That isn't just a mistake deleting text to shorten the quote, my name was nowhere in that post. You actually had to manually type in my name to incorrectly attribute that to me.

Wow are you ever a dick. Seriously, a modmin might not take too kindly to doing that.
 
2012-10-26 03:02:20 PM
All of the electoral votes in my state have already been attributed and cast. What good is it for me to vote? I have no real say in any outcome.

Additionally, Weeners the post is a horrible model for determining a proper leader. The choices handed to me at this point mean that I'm not voting for who I want to win, I'm voting for who I hate the least.

Suffrage is an illusion. We're all disenfranchised from the word go.
 
2012-10-26 03:04:18 PM
It always seems like the people who don't want to vote because it 'sucks' or 'shiat won't change' are white males. People who have ALWAYS had the right to vote and have never had to see people fight and march in America to GAIN that right.
 
2012-10-26 03:04:20 PM

lennavan: Nutsac


thewulf: lennavan: Nutsac_Jim: lennavan: directly addressing the number one reason for bankruptcy,

Really? Uninsured people were the number one reason for bankruptcy?

Maybe you can show us a link to a webpage that backs up this assertion.

I didn't say uninsured people. I said health insurance, see for instance preexisting conditions and lifetime benefit caps. Insured people go bankrupt because of their health insurance too.

1. Medical Expenses

A study done at Harvard University indicates that this is the biggest cause of bankruptcy, representing 62% of all personal bankruptcies. One of the interesting caveats of this study shows that 78% of filers had some form of health insurance, thus bucking the myth that medical bills affect only the uninsured.

Link

You can google "united states reason for bankruptcy" if you would like a different reference.

Ummm this means nothing. "Some form of health insurance" doesn't mean that they didn't go bankrupt for medical reasons. Most people have garbage health insurance plans won't cover them in a variety of situations, still causing them to go bankrupt.

Correlation != Causation


The assertion was that uninsured people were the number one cause of bankruptcy.
 
2012-10-26 03:04:39 PM
Americans fought and died in illegal wars throughout Asia, Central America and the Middle East for decades.
Don't we owe it to them and their sacrifice to continue these conflicts?
 
2012-10-26 03:05:05 PM
If you don't think voting is enough to cause positive change, maybe you should do more than just vote instead of doing nothing at all.
 
2012-10-26 03:05:50 PM
Isn't it interesting how everyone who tells you that you should "get out and vote" also happens to know exactly HOW you should vote, and is more than happy to tell you, whether you want them to or not?
 
2012-10-26 03:05:58 PM

ladykills82: It always seems like the people who don't want to vote because it 'sucks' or 'shiat won't change' are white males. People who have ALWAYS had the right to vote and have never had to see people fight and march in America to GAIN that right.


You'll get your equal opportunity.
 
2012-10-26 03:06:36 PM

Nutsac_Jim: 4 out of 5 people with medical bankruptcies had insurance. So, not much was really done.


Why did those people with insurance go bankrupt?

• Denied claims as "pre-existing conditions."
• Lifetime maximums.
• Maximizing profits, every denied claim goes directly to increasing profits.

What was done?

• No more pre-existing conditions.
• No more lifetime maximums.
• Cap on the profits.

Yeah, actually some stuff was done.

Recall, I did not post "Obama completely solved the number one reason for bankruptcy." I did not say "Obama eliminated the number one reason for bankruptcy." I said "Obama addressed the number one reason for bankruptcy."

At this point we have established:

1) Health insurance was the number one reason for bankruptcy.
2) Yes, Obamacare did address it.

I accept your apology.
 
2012-10-26 03:08:16 PM

Nutsac_Jim: The assertion was that uninsured people were the number one cause of bankruptcy.


No it wasn't.

lennavan: improved health insurance directly addressing the number one reason for bankruptcy


The assertion was Obamacare addressed the number one reason for bankruptcy. Stop being a nutsac, Jim.
 
2012-10-26 03:09:41 PM

lennavan: Nutsac_Jim: lennavan: directly addressing the number one reason for bankruptcy,

Really? Uninsured people were the number one reason for bankruptcy?

Maybe you can show us a link to a webpage that backs up this assertion.

I didn't say uninsured people. I said health insurance, see for instance preexisting conditions and lifetime benefit caps. Insured people go bankrupt because of their health insurance too.

1. Medical Expenses

A study done at Harvard University indicates that this is the biggest cause of bankruptcy, representing 62% of all personal bankruptcies. One of the interesting caveats of this study shows that 78% of filers had some form of health insurance, thus bucking the myth that medical bills affect only the uninsured.

Link

You can google "united states reason for bankruptcy" if you would like a different reference.


thats awesome. from your own link:
One of the interesting caveats of this study shows that 78% of filers had some form of health insurance, thus bucking the myth that medical bills affect only the uninsured.

So maybe getting effing sick and not working was the real cause of most bankruptcies. 
The only way national healthcare helps with the number one cause is if the number one cause is
uninsured people getting sick.
 
2012-10-26 03:10:42 PM
I don't vote because I wont' vote for the lesser of two evils, which is what a number of people end up doing. A vote is a single statistic to the politician, they don't say, "Oh, Nancy voted for me, I'm going to listen to her views and act on them!", you're accepting a full package - a package created to garner the most votes. They don't care about you, your beliefs, your disagreement with parts of their plan - only that you voted for them.
 
2012-10-26 03:11:32 PM

Nutsac_Jim: The only way national healthcare


Wait you think Obamacare is "national health care?" Sorry, I guess I thought you were at least remotely familiar with what was actually passed.
 
2012-10-26 03:12:29 PM

DECMATH: God Is My Co-Pirate: every single adult has the responsibility to decide what issues matter the most to them, and which candidate aligns most closely with their own views.

Okay I'll bite with this link to http://www.isidewith.com/. Hope they can keep up with the traffic.


That's pretty good, wish more people would take something like this that shows them their options. I thought the Third Party Candidates debate was great, they talked about every issue that I actually wanted to see addressed in the "real" debates. Not surprisingly, my results listed Gary Johnson as my first choice (and he already had my vote), and Mitt Rmoney was my last choice, with Obama coming in second to last.
Jill Stein was my surprise not only in the 3rd party debates (I was very impressed and hadn't even heard of her candidacy previously), but she also came in second in my best choice list by 1%.
 
2012-10-26 03:13:38 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: No, you can't complain. You had a chance to voice your opinion, as other voters have, and you decided to ignore it completely. So no, no whining for you.


So either I have to send a signal to one of two groups that I support them and their positions by casting a vote for them, even if I stand against them on everything, and likewise provide my consent to being ruled by them or I can't compain about how I haven't given my consent or suppor to them or their ideas?

You cast a vote you don't get to biatch because you consented to the outcome.
 
2012-10-26 03:14:34 PM

firefly212: The one thing the 2000 election taught me was that every once in a while, these things really do make a huge difference. Trillions of dollars of spending on destroying governments and rebuilding nations halfway around the world while neglecting our own citizens because of a supposed lack of funding... I voted this year, and I will vote every two years for the rest of my life.

If 538 more Floridians had voted for Gore, who knows what we could have had instead of Iraq.


Guess the Reps were more efficient at ballot stuffing that year.
 
2012-10-26 03:14:56 PM

shiattynick: DECMATH: God Is My Co-Pirate: every single adult has the responsibility to decide what issues matter the most to them, and which candidate aligns most closely with their own views.

Okay I'll bite with this link to http://www.isidewith.com/. Hope they can keep up with the traffic.

That's pretty good, wish more people would take something like this that shows them their options. I thought the Third Party Candidates debate was great, they talked about every issue that I actually wanted to see addressed in the "real" debates. Not surprisingly, my results listed Gary Johnson as my first choice (and he already had my vote), and Mitt Rmoney was my last choice, with Obama coming in second to last.
Jill Stein was my surprise not only in the 3rd party debates (I was very impressed and hadn't even heard of her candidacy previously), but she also came in second in my best choice list by 1%.


I think we'd be in better shape as a nation if more people took a test like that before voting based on the (R) or (D) or (L) or (?) behind the candidate's name.  It's amazing how people assume that they agree with a candidate just because of a letter in parens behind their name.
 
2012-10-26 03:16:16 PM

DeathByGeekSquad: I don't vote because I wont' vote for the lesser of two evils, which is what a number of people end up doing. A vote is a single statistic to the politician, they don't say, "Oh, Nancy voted for me, I'm going to listen to her views and act on them!", you're accepting a full package - a package created to garner the most votes. They don't care about you, your beliefs, your disagreement with parts of their plan - only that you voted for them.



There is an awful lot of pouting in this post. Because there is not a candidate that 100% reflects your views, you're going to sit in the corner and cry? Wow. After all of the fighting, protesting and lives lost to ensure everyone can vote, to ensure we're not ruled by a King and that everyone has an equal voice. After years upon years of struggle, it's nice to know Americans are so secure in their right to vote they are okay with just squandering it by crying in the corner.

Nice dude, nice.
 
2012-10-26 03:18:01 PM
Let me preface this by addressing everyone that parades war veterans around as vote guilt trips: Go fark yourselves with rusty light sabers. I've spent the last 9 months of my life in this shiathole they call Afghanistan "earning" my right to vote or not. That said... begin manifesto:

I'm not against voting per se, but I am against voting for people I don't actually want in power. And I will never feel bad for staying away because of that. So, unless there is someone on the ballot that I would legitimately like to see in power, I feel no duty to vote. Otherwise, I'm just empowering and lending legitimacy to a systematic and self-propagating turd farm of politicians who do more and more to erode my other rights and freedoms. Even if I vote for a lesser of two evils, I have still become a part of a statistic that now is used as justification for bad policy; "President X has a mandate to bomb the shiat out of Canada because 55% of the population voted for him." I won't be part of that 55%

I am also against encouraging people to vote just for the sake of voting. Intellectually and socially, it pats people on the ass for simply "letting their voice be heard" no matter how out of tune and terrible their voice is. It's like giving everyone on Little Bobby's soccer team a participation trophy, even though they spent the entire game eating grass and chasing butterflies while the other team scored 50 goals, kicked Bobby's puppy, and got to third base with Bobby's mother's too for good measure. The simple act of voting is not noble (nor ignoble); it is not to be commended (or scorned) any more than eating a bowl of froot loops for breakfast. HOW you vote is the measure of your accomplishment of your civic duty.

I guess if someone has taken the time to carefully sift through the layers of horseshiat and actually believes that the D or R nominees are really someone they WANT in power (vice doing it to prevent the other guy from winning), fine. By all means, go and vote for them. But I don't really believe that happens much. I think people, by and large, are peer pressured into voting against the other guy, and branded as "bad citizens" if they even consider not voting (and idiots "wasting their votes" if they go third party - what hypocrisy).

Herding the masses into voting booths, rewarding them with a "good for YOU!" and plastering them with a patronizing patriotic "I Voted Today, assuage my feelings of civic ignorance and insecurity and tell me how awesome I am" sticker is ridiculous. The political practical ramifications are that it pushes massively uninformed people into the arms of the two major political parties and ideologies which are bought and paid for by the highest bidder. Now people are hooked into voting themselves plunder from the treasury, worrying about BIRF CERTIFIKITS!, calling the other guy a Nazi because his tax policy is slightly different, etc.

Suddenly, people have turned civic involvement into the NFL. MY TEAM must win. I voted for the R so EVERYTHING the Rs do is now right, and they must win or America will explode. Never mind that 90% of what your "team" tells you is unfiltered bullshiat designed to dog whistle you with buzz words into pulling the voting lever and opening your wallet on command. The cycle continues, the Party grows and mutates, and wealth and power continue to consolidate thanks to Joseph McVoteypants's Pavlovian obedience to "make his voice heard."

Meanwhile, Bobby's soccer team still sucks yet he's still got his participation trophy. Not even attempting to be subtle, the Ds and Rs are gang-banging his mother and stealing his lunch money. But who cares? The important thing is that his voice was heard. He did his duty, right?

I need a blog.
//it will suck
 
2012-10-26 03:19:18 PM
The fact that people still think this is a real democracy is a joke. If the American people completely controlled it we wouldnt have to choose between a turd sandwich & giant d bag, we're smarter than that, at least id hope we are. Our choices to vote for are controlled mostly by CNN, FOX, MSNBC, etc
dont get me started on the religious nutjubs that cast a vote just bc of two issues (abortion, gay marriage). We have how much debt? How many soldiers dying? But abortion & gay marriage are way more important right? Not to mention a lil thing called seperation of church & state...
/ the constitution is a beautiful thing, too bad we've taken a massive shiat all over it by now
// its not that people are lazy or uninformed, people are EMBARRASSED to be an American now, & we should be
/// but theres too many idiots that vote for us to successfully overthrow the two parties
//// slashies ftw
 
2012-10-26 03:19:27 PM

lennavan: Nutface, it's up there in bold for you to re-read. I said health insurance was the number one reason. That includes not having health insurance as well as having health insurance that doesn't cover enough.


But where in the link does it say that the reason for most bankruptcies is because of uncovered medical expenses or uninsured? It doesn't.
 
2012-10-26 03:20:41 PM

Paelian: at least I did not participate in the facade of representative government and help lend it legitimacy.


Once upon a time in my youth, when I knew everything (as we all do in our teenage years), I tried to imagine what the perfect form of government would be.

I came to the conclusion that there are exactly two forms of government that would work well:

1. Pure democracy. None of that republican nonesense. And I use these terms in the literal sense, not in reference to our political parties. The only catch to such a system is that everyone who votes must be completely and thoroughly educated on the topic they are to vote on. And I mean it. No biased reporting, no spin or half truths. 100% knowledgeable on the topic at hand.

2. A pure dictatorship. You put one person in charge of the entire populace. They have their delegates for handling the menial day to day stuff but policy is left completely up to the dictator. The catch is that the dictator has to be 100% benevolent. They have to have the people's interests in mind and ONLY the people's interests in mind. This person doesn't have to be perfect but as long as they listen to the people and make well informed decisions it should work out (more or less).

I think we can all agree that both 1 and 2 are so improbable as to be considered impossible to achieve.
 
2012-10-26 03:21:56 PM
Let me translate:

Hollywood-type-person "OMG, You HAVE to vote!!!"

Translation: "OMG, You have to vote, for Obama!"
 
2012-10-26 03:23:11 PM
I'm not voting because I live in Texas, so I won't affect the Presidency, and Im not from here and honestly don't know enough about the local elections to make an informed decision.

All I do know is the names of two candidates my TV constantly tells me not to vote for, but never who to vote for. I did consider the idea of voting against whoever does the most attack ads, simply out of spite. Things also seem pretty ok in this city, low taxes, decent schools, good economy, etc. so I'm gonna let this cycle slide by without my input.
 
2012-10-26 03:25:11 PM

a61sun: It's not that I don't care, I don't vote because even if I DO vote, it changes nothing.


So if your vote isn't the deciding vote, it was a wasted effort? You're entitled to be called upon to vote only when the balance hangs on your one vote, and not be bothered otherwise? No offense, but that doesn't demonstrate a lot of caring.

FWIW, here's how I maintain my illusion of significance: I research the issues, and the candidates, sometimes even relying on other sources beyond the web, and I vote AS IF I were the only one voting.

/I like to think it's because I care about the larger community I'm in, but I'm willing to admit it's for more selfish motives.
 
2012-10-26 03:25:23 PM

The Southern Logic Company: Not registered, not voting, never voted, not going to vote.

Until we have something that isn't a two party system, I am not going to bother with it. Neither party represents my interests, nor do any third parties.

Not all non-voters are lazy or stupid. I will keep complaining because there is a LOT wrong with this country that has nothing to do with Democratic or Republican politics.


Guess what the 'write-in candidate' option is for?
 
2012-10-26 03:27:07 PM

Nutsac_Jim: lennavan: Nutface, it's up there in bold for you to re-read. I said health insurance was the number one reason. That includes not having health insurance as well as having health insurance that doesn't cover enough.

But where in the link does it say that the reason for most bankruptcies is because of uncovered medical expenses or uninsured? It doesn't.


It doesn't need to.

The number one reason for bankruptcy - 1. Medical Expenses
Part of that was lifetime caps.
Obamacare removes lifetime caps.
Therefore Obamacare addresses the number one reason for bankruptcy.

The number one reason for bankruptcy - 1. Medical Expenses
Part of that was denial of coverage due to preexisting conditions.
Obamacare removes preexisting conditions.
Therefore Obamacare addresses the number one reason for bankruptcy.

The number one reason for bankruptcy - 1. Medical Expenses
Part of that was denial of coverage due to preexisting conditions.
Obamacare removes preexisting conditions.
Therefore Obamacare addresses the number one reason for bankruptcy.

The number one reason for bankruptcy - 1. Medical Expenses
Part of that was young people not being insured.
Obamacare allows young people to remain on their parents insurance.
Therefore Obamacare addresses the number one reason for bankruptcy.

The number one reason for bankruptcy - 1. Medical Expenses
Part of that was denial of coverage because forcing the individual to pay increases profits.
Obamacare capped profits.
Therefore Obamacare addresses the number one reason for bankruptcy.

The number one reason for bankruptcy - 1. Medical Expenses
Part of that was uninsured people.
Obamacare includes a mandate that everyone purchase insurance.
Therefore Obamacare addresses the number one reason for bankruptcy.

Obamacare did not eliminate the number one reason for bankruptcy. But it sure as fark addressed it.
 
2012-10-26 03:28:01 PM

CruJones: I'm not voting because I live in Texas, so I won't affect the Presidency, and Im not from here and honestly don't know enough about the local elections to make an informed decision.

All I do know is the names of two candidates my TV constantly tells me not to vote for, but never who to vote for. I did consider the idea of voting against whoever does the most attack ads, simply out of spite. Things also seem pretty ok in this city, low taxes, decent schools, good economy, etc. so I'm gonna let this cycle slide by without my input.


You could take the time to become informed. Just a thought.
 
2012-10-26 03:31:14 PM

thewulf: One of the interesting caveats of this study shows that 78% of filers had some form of health insurance, thus bucking the myth that medical bills affect only the uninsured.

Link

You can google "united states reason for bankruptcy" if you would like a different reference.

Ummm this means nothing. "Some form of health insurance" doesn't mean that they didn't go bankrupt for medical reasons. Most people have garbage health insurance plans won't cover them in a variety of situations, still causing them to go bankrupt.

Correlation != Causation


And, obama's insurance bill.. it provides this minimum coverage for people?
 
2012-10-26 03:31:52 PM

daveUSMC: Let me preface this by addressing everyone that parades war veterans around as vote guilt trips: Go fark yourselves with rusty light sabers. I've spent the last 9 months of my life in this shiathole they call Afghanistan "earning" my right to vote or not. That said... begin manifesto:

I'm not against voting per se, but I am against voting for people I don't actually want in power. And I will never feel bad for staying away because of that. So, unless there is someone on the ballot that I would legitimately like to see in power, I feel no duty to vote. Otherwise, I'm just empowering and lending legitimacy to a systematic and self-propagating turd farm of politicians who do more and more to erode my other rights and freedoms. Even if I vote for a lesser of two evils, I have still become a part of a statistic that now is used as justification for bad policy; "President X has a mandate to bomb the shiat out of Canada because 55% of the population voted for him." I won't be part of that 55%

I am also against encouraging people to vote just for the sake of voting. Intellectually and socially, it pats people on the ass for simply "letting their voice be heard" no matter how out of tune and terrible their voice is. It's like giving everyone on Little Bobby's soccer team a participation trophy, even though they spent the entire game eating grass and chasing butterflies while the other team scored 50 goals, kicked Bobby's puppy, and got to third base with Bobby's mother's too for good measure. The simple act of voting is not noble (nor ignoble); it is not to be commended (or scorned) any more than eating a bowl of froot loops for breakfast. HOW you vote is the measure of your accomplishment of your civic duty.

I guess if someone has taken the time to carefully sift through the layers of horseshiat and actually believes that the D or R nominees are really someone they WANT in power (vice doing it to prevent the other guy from winning), fine. By all means, go and vote for th ...


+1

And thank you for your service!
 
2012-10-26 03:32:42 PM

lennavan:
Obamacare did not eliminate the number one reason for bankruptcy. But it sure as fark addressed it.



And by the time he leaves office, next term, we will have decided that he traded individual bankruptcy for national bankruptcy.
 
2012-10-26 03:32:54 PM
Wow, I can't believe there are so many non-vote defenders here.

Try living in a country that doesn't allow its citizens to vote, then you'll understand how much power and influence you have. To throw your vote away is the most anti-democratic thing you can do.
 
2012-10-26 03:34:36 PM
I feel like the US and Canada should adopt the Australian method of compulsory voting. You can spoil your ballot as you damn-well please, but you are obliged to vote nonetheless. It would send a proper message about the disenfranchisement of the electorate if enough people were to spoil their ballots, as opposed to just being lazy.
 
2012-10-26 03:35:39 PM

wildcardjack: I'm in Texas. Is that enough of an excuse to stay home?


No, get out there and vote! Too many people seem to think Texas votes 99% Republican, but that's not the case. It's been edging closer to 50/50. In the 2008 general election, McCain got 55.45%, while Obama got 43.68%. The US Senatorial race went 54.82% Republican to 42.83% Dem. And there are plenty of areas in Texas that are solidly Democratic.

Texan Democrats DO have the power to close those gaps and turn Texas purple (or blue) if they'd just get out there and vote instead of staying home and whining that "Oh, Texas is a red state so my vote doesn't count."  Go out there and kick some elephant ass!
 
2012-10-26 03:37:12 PM

Warlordtrooper: rumpelstiltskin: Voting is a responsiblilty in a democracy, not a right.

Actually voting is a constitutionally protected right.

FlashHarry: shiat like this just makes my blood farking boil. what farking arrogance. what farking laziness. what farking entitlement. when millions live under oppressive dictatorship around the world, to not exercise your sacred right of suffrage is just farking disgusting.

OH ya, so please explain to me why I should go vote. Seeing as how I'm in New York and my vote counts for a fraction of what a vote cast in Ohio counts for. Please go on and defend this asinine electoral system where peoples votes make no difference.


If more NYers had voted in the last 1, 2, 3 mayoral elections, we wouldn't be currently ruled by that dictator with the Napolen complex.
 
2012-10-26 03:38:33 PM
lennavan Smartest
Funniest
2012-10-26 03:02:01 PM


doubled99: lennavan
I'm sorry, I can't hear you. And neither can anyone else.



and yet you keep responding somehow.
So you're incapable of even understanding your own words.



/nice effort, though

I didn't post that. That isn't just a mistake deleting text to shorten the quote, my name was nowhere in that post.




Well fark me. You are right, that wasn't you.
shiat, now I have to go and vote.
 
2012-10-26 03:39:19 PM

FlashHarry: shiat like this just makes my blood farking boil. what farking arrogance. what farking laziness. what farking entitlement. when millions live under oppressive dictatorship around the world, to not exercise your sacred right of suffrage is just farking disgusting.


This.

_Any_ of you asshats not voting _are_ the problem. _You_ are why you can't have nice things. Vote.
 
2012-10-26 03:40:28 PM

AllUpInYa: lennavan:
Obamacare did not eliminate the number one reason for bankruptcy. But it sure as fark addressed it.


And by the time he leaves office, next term, we will have decided that he traded individual bankruptcy for national bankruptcy.


The ACA law is not a single payer plan... or a public option. How would the ACA cause a national bankruptcy?
 
2012-10-26 03:40:34 PM

lennavan: Nutsac_Jim: 4 out of 5 people with medical bankruptcies had insurance. So, not much was really done.

Why did those people with insurance go bankrupt?

• Denied claims as "pre-existing conditions."
• Lifetime maximums.
• Maximizing profits, every denied claim goes directly to increasing profits.

What was done?

• No more pre-existing conditions.
• No more lifetime maximums.
• Cap on the profits.

Yeah, actually some stuff was done.

Recall, I did not post "Obama completely solved the number one reason for bankruptcy." I did not say "Obama eliminated the number one reason for bankruptcy." I said "Obama addressed the number one reason for bankruptcy."

At this point we have established:

1) Health insurance was the number one reason for bankruptcy.
2) Yes, Obamacare did address it.

I accept your apology.


ok. I never had a problem with preexisting conditions, as every insurance company paid despite the issue existing before I was hired. I don't see why this was an issue. Perhaps anecdotal.

I have questioned the insuance agencies stand on this one. There was already a law about these preexisting conditions. Maybe the issue is people that didnt want to buy insurance, then gettings sick, and finding a job with insurance, then filing a claim.

I dont think there are that many people that have busted through a 2million dollar cap to cause any
meaningful drop in bankruptcies. to get it off the number one spot.
 
2012-10-26 03:42:45 PM
There are two acceptable reasons not to vote.

You're under age, or you're six feet under. Thats it.
 
2012-10-26 03:42:56 PM

ladykills82: Guess what the 'write-in candidate' option is for?


Steve Rodgers.

ladykills82: CruJones: I'm not voting because I live in Texas, so I won't affect the Presidency, and Im not from here and honestly don't know enough about the local elections to make an informed decision.

All I do know is the names of two candidates my TV constantly tells me not to vote for, but never who to vote for. I did consider the idea of voting against whoever does the most attack ads, simply out of spite. Things also seem pretty ok in this city, low taxes, decent schools, good economy, etc. so I'm gonna let this cycle slide by without my input.

You could take the time to become informed. Just a thought.


This. OTOH, trying to sort through the muck raking and constant exposure to political ads can be tiresome.
 
2012-10-26 03:43:48 PM

Honest Bender: GanjSmokr: Throw Gary Johnson a vote. If he gets 5%, things might be more interesting next time around.

Unless you like being limited to the choices of CW1 and CW2 (which it seems you don't), do something to initiate change. If Gary Johnson gets 5% of the vote this time, we could see some change next time around.

I've just GOT to ask... what's your logic behind this? That if Random Dude gets a paltry number of votes, somehow it'll shake up the whole corrupt system?

IlGreven: ..,thank you for furthering the agenda of corporate whores. Probably more than those who actually vote for them.

I know, right? I mean, I could help to elect the next corporate shill or I could vote for someone who has ZERO chance of being elected. Surely that is somehow better than just abstaining... Tell me, how is my voting (vs. not voting) going to stick it to the corrupt political system?


Next time he will get to debate. Remember 1992 debate with Perot.
 
2012-10-26 03:44:01 PM

Honest Bender: Paelian: at least I did not participate in the facade of representative government and help lend it legitimacy.

Once upon a time in my youth, when I knew everything (as we all do in our teenage years), I tried to imagine what the perfect form of government would be.

I came to the conclusion that there are exactly two forms of government that would work well:

1. Pure democracy. None of that republican nonesense. And I use these terms in the literal sense, not in reference to our political parties. The only catch to such a system is that everyone who votes must be completely and thoroughly educated on the topic they are to vote on. And I mean it. No biased reporting, no spin or half truths. 100% knowledgeable on the topic at hand.

2. A pure dictatorship. You put one person in charge of the entire populace. They have their delegates for handling the menial day to day stuff but policy is left completely up to the dictator. The catch is that the dictator has to be 100% benevolent. They have to have the people's interests in mind and ONLY the people's interests in mind. This person doesn't have to be perfect but as long as they listen to the people and make well informed decisions it should work out (more or less).

I think we can all agree that both 1 and 2 are so improbable as to be considered impossible to achieve.


Saying that I think the current system is not set up to represent me at all is not the same thing as saying, "I wish for the some absurdly unrealistic system of government where everything is rainbows and unicorns."  You are right that ideal political systems are, well, ideals. But that's no the same thing as saying that I find the current system acceptable. And there's a big difference between acknowledging the problems in the system and pretending that there are no problems, as some people in this thread are doing. Not small problems, but fundamental ones.

What I'm saying is that the system is presented in a way that is layered in hypocrisy, and the "If you don't vote, you are a a scumbag" folks do not realize that for a substantial number of Americans, voting is an exercise in futility. No one has yet to sit down and say, "Your arguments about how politics are structured in your district/state are wrong. You should vote because it would have the following real, meaningful impacts on the election:...."

They instead say things like, "You must be a privileged jerk from a privileged part of American culture" or "You're just lazy" or "You have no right to complain" while not addressing my claims about unopposed incumbents, gerrymandering, or the electoral college. They also do not address my point about sending money to PACs to influence the elections in parts of the country where voting DOES MATTER.

It's almost like these people are the ones living on Planet Unicorn where everyone has equal access to politics and there are no quirks in the political system that ensure only the right kinds of votes matter. And it's almost like partisans for both the Democrats and Republicans are ashamed to admit that two of the most crucial ways in which both parties are alike (gerrymandering and benefiting from the electoral college) are ways that reduce the efficacy of people voting rather than making sure every vote actually matters.

Vote if you live in place where you vote matters. And along party lines if you want to. But don't pretend that voting matters equally all parts of the United States (only an ignoramus thinks that), and don't pretend that the current system doesn't benefit the two big parties, giving them way more clout in politics than they might otherwise have.
 
2012-10-26 03:45:34 PM

lennavan: Nutsac_Jim: The assertion was that uninsured people were the number one cause of bankruptcy.

No it wasn't.

lennavan: improved health insurance directly addressing the number one reason for bankruptcy

The assertion was Obamacare addressed the number one reason for bankruptcy. Stop being a nutsac, Jim.


my fault. I thought you were saying that the number one cause was uninsured people.

I'll accept it is addressing it, but that it will have no meaningful impact on the number, because there just arent that many people slamming into the lifetime cap.

I think it the Tax for not paying actually provided some basic coverage. then we might have a lot of people being covered for items that would previously have bankrupted them. Maybe in Obamacare 2.0 .....
 
2012-10-26 03:45:35 PM

RedVentrue: Next time he will get to debate. Remember 1992 debate with Perot.


No. I was 8.
 
2012-10-26 03:47:21 PM
Is this the thread where people try and tell each other what they can or can not do with zero authority and zero effect? Because if so, count me in!

If you voted for the winner and later want to complain about the government you must first began any responses in a political thread with the words, "I can see your point, however ..."

If you voted for the loser you are allowed to whine about the government as much as you want but you have to volunteer at the campaign office next election.

If you didn't vote you may only complain about the government on Wednesdays and Fridays or if a state of martial law is declared.

And if you voted for a candidate that doesn't strongly support teaching evolution in schools you can't have any antibiotics for some retarded reason.
 
2012-10-26 03:47:49 PM

Nutsac_Jim: ok. I never had a problem with preexisting conditions, as every insurance company paid despite the issue existing before I was hired. I don't see why this was an issue. Perhaps anecdotal.


I think you were on to something at the end there. Go with it.

Nutsac_Jim: I have questioned the insuance agencies stand on this one. There was already a law about these preexisting conditions. Maybe the issue is people that didnt want to buy insurance, then gettings sick, and finding a job with insurance, then filing a claim.


Maybe rather than totally guess you could google it for examples to find out what was actually occurring.

Here is a portion of a transcript of testimony given to Congress. You can check Youtube for the video if you want to watch or listen instead.

My name is Linda Peeno, and although the witness list does not reflect this, I am a physician. I am a former medical director and medical reviewer.

Now, let me explain to you the ways that I was a good medical director. I was regularly consulted by marketing on ways to change expensive benefits or change the language to give me loopholes to make denials when requests came.

For example in one plan, we were able to structure our investigational language exclusion so that I was often able to use it to deny almost anything that was expensive, and particularly out-of-network requests.

I turned preexisting exclusions into a game as I tried to connect almost any prior medical complaint or visit as a reason to deny payment.


Link

Is it alright if I suggest we go with the Congressional testimony of a woman who used to work for the insurance companies actually deciding on these claims over your wild conjecture?

Nutsac_Jim: I dont think there are that many people that have busted through a 2million dollar cap to cause any
meaningful drop in bankruptcies.


Guess we're going to go with your wild guesses. Cool, I can work with that. I said "Obamacare addressed the number one reason for health care." Your reply here is "This very specific part of Obamacare only addressed it a little bit." Sure. It still addressed it.
 
2012-10-26 03:49:02 PM

hugram: AllUpInYa: lennavan:
Obamacare did not eliminate the number one reason for bankruptcy. But it sure as fark addressed it.


And by the time he leaves office, next term, we will have decided that he traded individual bankruptcy for national bankruptcy.

The ACA law is not a single payer plan... or a public option. How would the ACA cause a national bankruptcy?



I don't think there's anything substantive to reign in healthcare costs, and making insurance mandatory creates a seller's market. Do you think that ins providers won't collude to raise prices?
 
2012-10-26 03:50:05 PM

Nutsac_Jim: I'll accept it is addressing it, but that it will have no meaningful impact on the number, because there just arent that many people slamming into the lifetime cap.


Obamacare did more than just remove the lifetime cap. You didn't know that? Wow.
 
2012-10-26 03:50:38 PM

AmbassadorBooze: should people vote? yes. Does it do anything? no.


makes sense
 
2012-10-26 03:50:52 PM
vote by mail farkers
 
2012-10-26 03:51:25 PM

lennavan: Nutsac_Jim: The only way national healthcare

Wait you think Obamacare is "national health care?" Sorry, I guess I thought you were at least remotely familiar with what was actually passed.


lennavan: Obamacare did not eliminate the number one reason for bankruptcy. But it sure as fark addressed it.


I will concede that it did more than I thought.
Has the number of medical bankruptcies gone down? I understand OC is not fully implmemented..
but if all the above assertions are indeed meaningful, then they would have an effect on the number of medical bankkruptcies.
 
2012-10-26 03:52:29 PM

AllUpInYa: I don't think there's anything substantive to reign in healthcare costs, and making insurance mandatory creates a seller's market. Do you think that ins providers won't collude to raise prices?


If they did, they would either have to spend that increased money on benefits, or return it to people in the form of a check.

The "80/20 rule" in the ACA mandates that health insurers spend at least 80% of their customers' premiums on health services, leaving no more than 20% for administrative costs and advertising. That means if an insurance company spends 78% of the money it collects on health benefits for customers, it has to send rebate checks for the additional 2%.
 
2012-10-26 03:52:53 PM

wildcardjack: I'm in Texas. Is that enough of an excuse to stay home?

/And monkeys might fly out of my ass.


no, because you may have a large number of additional candidates depending on where you live

plus you need to vote for the state board of education person (or against depending)
 
2012-10-26 03:55:17 PM

SilentStrider: There are two acceptable reasons not to vote.

You're under age, or you're six feet under. Thats it.


3) You are uninformed and will just casting a random ballot because it is your "duty"
 
2012-10-26 03:57:15 PM

Nutsac_Jim: Has the number of medical bankruptcies gone down? I understand OC is not fully implmemented..


No idea, everything I see cites the 2007 Harvard study. I assume that just means a more recent one hasn't been implemented yet.

Nutsac_Jim: but if all the above assertions are indeed meaningful, then they would have an effect on the number of medical bankkruptcies.


That is correct. I fully expect the number of medical bankruptcies to significantly decline. But the data doesn't exist to my knowledge yet, that's just a hypothesis.
 
2012-10-26 03:59:32 PM

lennavan: If they did, they would either have to spend that increased money on benefits, or return it to people in the form of a check.


In before "CEO's therapeutic Veyron".
 
2012-10-26 03:59:44 PM
I usually feel a nanosecond or so of guilt, like when you step on a beneficial insect, for being on the other side of the country hunting on election day, even though I usually do is vote to fire every judge on the ballot. But this year...not so much. It was different when we were trying to save the world from the EPA or that Brady coont, but now I have to get emissions inspections on my vehicles IN TEXAS. There is nothing left to fight for any longer.
 
2012-10-26 04:00:36 PM

midigod: midigod: I could give you quotes

Just for insano, here are a few. They're not all Founding Fathers, but the ones who aren't are still eminently qualified:

"Now more than ever before, the people are responsible for the character of their Congress. If that body be ignorant, reckless and corrupt, it is because the people tolerate ignorance, recklessness and corruption. If it be intelligent, brave and pure, it is because the people demand these high qualities to represent them in the national legislature.... If the next centennial does not find us a great nation ... it will be because those who represent the enterprise, the culture, and the morality of the nation do not aid in controlling the political forces."
- James Garfield

"To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men."
- Abraham Lincoln

"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine

"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government."
- Thomas Paine

A nation, as a society, forms a moral person, and every member of it is personally responsible for his society.
- Thomas Jefferson, Founding Father and third U.S. president (1743-1826), in a letter to George Hammond, 1792

"We the People are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts--not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
- Abraham Lincoln

This country will not be a good place for any of us to live in unless we make it a good place for all of us to live in.
- Theodore Roosevelt, American adventurer and 26th president (1858-1919)

Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost.
- John Quincy Adams

"The jaws of power are always open to devour, and her arm is always stretched out, if possible, to destroy the freedom of thinking, speaking, and writing."
- John Adams

"If ye love wealth greater than liberty, t ...



Most of these quotes don't necessarily have to do with voting.
 
2012-10-26 04:00:57 PM
Even though ALL I do is...

ftfm
 
2012-10-26 04:02:26 PM

DECMATH: God Is My Co-Pirate: every single adult has the responsibility to decide what issues matter the most to them, and which candidate aligns most closely with their own views.

Okay I'll bite with this link to http://www.isidewith.com/. Hope they can keep up with the traffic.


it says i could go either libertarian or green at 71% match for both
 
2012-10-26 04:03:35 PM
Remember, you owe it to your tea party to vote November 7th!
 
2012-10-26 04:04:16 PM

FormlessOne: Done in one, honestly. The very idea that there is, somehow, a case for not voting is ludicrous. Without a vote, you have no true representation - even "conscientious objection" to the railed electoral process is pointless unless you add your nudge to the electoral shove needed to change the direction of that juggernaut.


Ha ha. You think you have representation.
 
2012-10-26 04:05:49 PM

Honest Bender: Really? Because if you pay close attention, you'll notice that the garbage truck pulls up, dumps all the containers in the back of his truck, and drives it to the landfill where it's all dumped into the same shiathole.


Maybe in your rinky-dink, Podunk it does, but not in my County.

Entirely different trucks.

Perhaps you should exercise your franchise and vote in some folks who can Get Shiat Done?
 
2012-10-26 04:06:30 PM

roddack: SilentStrider: There are two acceptable reasons not to vote.

You're under age, or you're six feet under. Thats it.

3) You are uninformed and will just casting a random ballot because it is your "duty"


Should Some People Not Vote
 
2012-10-26 04:06:52 PM

MoronLessOff: ZeroCorpse: No matter who you vote for, the SAME PEOPLE will be running the world. The President is a celebrity face

[upload.wikimedia.org image 548x429]


The major problem - one of the major problems, for there are several - one of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them.

To summarize: it is a well known fact, that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it. To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job. To summarize the summary of the summary: people are a problem.

And so this is the situation we find: a succession of Galactic Presidents who so much enjoy the fun and palaver of being in power that they very rarely notice that they're not.

/"You can sing to my cat if you like."
 
2012-10-26 04:07:49 PM

MoronLessOff: ladykills82: Guess what the 'write-in candidate' option is for?

Steve Rodgers.

ladykills82: CruJones: I'm not voting because I live in Texas, so I won't affect the Presidency, and Im not from here and honestly don't know enough about the local elections to make an informed decision.

All I do know is the names of two candidates my TV constantly tells me not to vote for, but never who to vote for. I did consider the idea of voting against whoever does the most attack ads, simply out of spite. Things also seem pretty ok in this city, low taxes, decent schools, good economy, etc. so I'm gonna let this cycle slide by without my input.

You could take the time to become informed. Just a thought.

This. OTOH, trying to sort through the muck raking and constant exposure to political ads can be tiresome.


I could, and I will for the next one in two years, but as I said, things are going well actually, and I don't feel the need to interfere. I just simply pay very little attention to local issues, and to be honest, while less important on a large scale, I actually find local politics a little harder to navigate. There are so many judges, comptrollers, and ordinances that I'm simply too busy/lazy to do my due diligence this year. I'm not claiming its ideal. I should do the research, it's just not gonna happen. If there was an important senate/gubernatorial race, etc I'd do it.
 
2012-10-26 04:17:18 PM

Pertifly: I'm not being an asshole, I promise, but do you think the two party system is just going to magically go away? Then you can swing by and vote for your perfect candidate? We have to make the change happen, not just sit by and watch these pricks run our country into the ground.


Thank you for not being an asshole :)

I know it won't disappear overnight, but how is voting going to fix it? A proportional electoral system similar to the UK would be more along the lines of what I desire but what politician, Democrat or Republican, desires that system? Or any change to the system such as removing the electoral college?

Any change to the system breaks their dominance of the political spectrum. Not since the days of Cincinnatus would a politician willingly give up power for the good of the people. I have no faith that either party particularly cares about our system of electing representatives or president, neither have mentioned anything close to it unless they are butthurt about the election (See post 2000 election when suddenly people wanted to do away with the electoral system).

ladykills82:

Guess what the 'write-in candidate' option is for?


Who do I write? What candidate represents my views? Is it better to go vote and write in myself than to not vote at all?
 
2012-10-26 04:18:02 PM
People have been saying: vote for the third party, it will change things next time. For the past 50 years. Free beer tomorrow.
 
2012-10-26 04:19:57 PM

The Southern Logic Company: Who do I write? What candidate represents my views? Is it better to go vote and write in myself than to not vote at all?


There's an easy way to find that out.
http://www.isidewith.com
 
2012-10-26 04:23:48 PM

GanjSmokr: The Southern Logic Company: Who do I write? What candidate represents my views? Is it better to go vote and write in myself than to not vote at all?

There's an easy way to find that out.
http://www.isidewith.com


It said I should vote for Gary Johnson. Still think its important for me to get to the polls?!
 
2012-10-26 04:25:51 PM
I'm voting by not voting.

Look, the people who make TV shows realize that in order for a show to succeed it must appeal to the widest possible audience. It can't be too smart, to edgy, too racy, too this-or-that. It has to be middle, average. As a result, the vast majority of what you find on TV is garbage.

This is the same process a candidate employs in order to get elected: appeal to the largest number of people by embracing the largest possible average. As a result, candidates (and the elected officials they become) are equally garbage.

Government by fiat of the lowest common denominator seems dumb to me, and I've no interest in participating in the problem when I could be trying to think of a solution instead.

Voters of America: why do you care? You won't miss my one vote anyway.
 
2012-10-26 04:26:10 PM

GanjSmokr: Find out who you actually agree with on the issues: http://www.isidewith.com


Neat. Jill Stein (95%) followed by Barack Obama (87%). I don't know how they decided I don't side with Obama on healthcare issues, so I'm actually calling it a tie. If I lived in a swing state, I could now vote Obama with a clear conscience. Since I don't, Green might get my vote. Mostly just to show the Democrats that there's votes that they risk losing by letting themselves be driven to the right.

I agree with Romney on no major issues. No surprise there.
 
2012-10-26 04:28:57 PM

thisisarepeat: GanjSmokr: The Southern Logic Company: Who do I write? What candidate represents my views? Is it better to go vote and write in myself than to not vote at all?

There's an easy way to find that out.
http://www.isidewith.com

It said I should vote for Gary Johnson. Still think its important for me to get to the polls?!


Yes.

If he gets 5% of the popular votes, the Libertarian party will be entitled to matching federal funds (about $90 million) from the Federal Government next presidential election.

So again, YES I think it's important for you to go "throw away" a vote on Gary Johnson. ESPECIALLY if you agree with his platform...
 
2012-10-26 04:29:01 PM

MrBonestripper: Government by fiat of the lowest common denominator seems dumb to me, and I've no interest in participating in the problem when I could be trying to think of a solution instead.


Drinking and masturbating are not the same as thinking of a solution.
 
2012-10-26 04:29:12 PM

thisisarepeat: GanjSmokr: The Southern Logic Company: Who do I write? What candidate represents my views? Is it better to go vote and write in myself than to not vote at all?

There's an easy way to find that out.
http://www.isidewith.com

It said I should vote for Gary Johnson. Still think its important for me to get to the polls?!


Yes. Gary Johnson at 5% would do a great deal of good for the country.

Also, apparently I side with Jill Stein on almost everything except immigration, which I side with Mitt Romney on. So there you go Mitt, I'm bipartisan.
 
2012-10-26 04:30:37 PM

ZeroCorpse: FlashHarry: shiat like this just makes my blood farking boil. what farking arrogance. what farking laziness. what farking entitlement. when millions live under oppressive dictatorship around the world, to not exercise your sacred right of suffrage is just farking disgusting.

Oh, shut up.

I was extremely politically active for years. Before I could vote legally, I volunteered for political causes. From 18 onward, I voted in every election-- even the little local ones that everyone else ignored-- Because I had the idea that I was making some sort of difference.

And maybe in those little local elections I was making a difference. But in a Presidential election? A national election? I've learned better in the 23 years since I first filled in a ballot.

No matter who you vote for, the SAME PEOPLE will be running the world. The President is a celebrity face chosen by the true powers-that-be, and we cannot vote for or against those powers-that-be. They run the world as they see fit, and placate the rest of us with hollow elections that have ZERO effect on the big picture.

You say it's laziness, arrogance, and entitlement for me not to vote. I say it's pure, 100% childish naivety that motivates you to vote.

Here's what going to happen when the next Presidency begins: NOTHING DIFFERENT. Oh, sure, they'll say they're making changes, providing new possibilities, and pumping hope and sunshine up our asses, but then the bureaucratic process will kick in-- as it's designed to do-- and we'll get the same as we've always gotten from the powerful men in charge of this world: Just enough to keep us arguing with each other, participating in their economic design, and consuming like the complacent slugs our species became about two thousand years ago.

You say I'm an arrogant, lazy, entitled person for making the decision to opt out of the farce that is our election process. I say you're a naive fool who might as well be voting for unicorns and pots of gold at the end of rainbows, for all the good it will do you to vote. Further, I suggest that by participating and swallowing the lie they feed to you, you're in denial about your true effect on the state of the world.

I voted. I cheered for voting. I marched around proud that I "participated" in the process, and what did it get me? A lot of wasted energy. No advancements or improvements to the way of life for anyone. Wars, on schedule. Presidents who, once in office, don't seem to be anything more than middle-ground placeholders who are-- upon sharp evaluation-- no different than the last twenty or thirty men to hold the office. Senators and Representatives who live like kings and spend little time actually doing anything to fix the world because the point of their existence is to argue and stalemate and put on a show for the proles.

You want arrogance, laziness and entitlement? Look in the mirror, sir. You think by driving to a church or school gymnasium, filling out a sheet of paper, and then watching the results (if they're even really counted) as if it's a sports competition and you're cheering for your favorite team makes you better than people who have decided, once and for all, that they won't be suckered by this dog & pony show? That's arrogance, right there. You're proud of doing more to accomplish nothing. Congratulations. Enjoy your well-earned "I Voted" sticker. I hope it makes you feel warm and fuzzy, because that about as much "change" as you'll get from it.

The President, Congress, the Senate-- they're all ultimately powerless to make significant changes. They bow to their masters, just as you do. The only difference is that they get paid handsomely to be the face of the lie, while you get jack-shiat besides that warm, fuzzy feeling from "participating" in the process of maintaining the lie.

You might as well be biatching about people not voting for the winner of American Idol, for as much effect as politicians truly have on the world.

I'll vote again when we can vote the plutocrats and corporate overlords out of power. They're the guys in charge, and they have been since long before either you or I were born. Of course, since they maintain this whole show for the likes of you, and you're not likely to ever admit that you're being manipulated into a false sense of security instead of truly making a difference, the likelihood of the true lords of this planet being removed from power is hovering at about one in a trillion.

Do enjoy the "big finale" to the variety show this November. I hope it gives you a deep feeling of satisfaction. For me, it's yet another pile of horseshiat that was meant to distract me from the way things really are, and for the first time since 1989, I'm not participating. I'm done being suckered.


Your newsletter...subscribe.
 
2012-10-26 04:30:58 PM

cheesewheel: Wow, I can't believe there are so many non-vote defenders here.

Try living in a country that doesn't allow its citizens to vote, then you'll understand how much power and influence you have. To throw your vote away is the most anti-democratic thing you can do.


I view it as abstaining from the vote, which would still be participating in the voting process. Yes/No/Abstain. I dislike the options provided, and don't trust that either party (or any current independent party) will serve the best interests of the country rather than padding their own legacy. Blind acceptance of the current options isn't much of a choice past 'that guy or this guy'.
 
2012-10-26 04:31:32 PM

thurstonxhowell: MrBonestripper: Government by fiat of the lowest common denominator seems dumb to me, and I've no interest in participating in the problem when I could be trying to think of a solution instead.

Drinking and masturbating are not the same as thinking of a solution.


Perhaps not, but at the end of the day, when I'm done playing with my lever, I'll have something good to show for it, and that puts me in a much better solution-finding frame of mind.
 
2012-10-26 04:33:17 PM

GanjSmokr: The Southern Logic Company: Who do I write? What candidate represents my views? Is it better to go vote and write in myself than to not vote at all?

There's an easy way to find that out.
http://www.isidewith.com


Ever consider I might be an Anarchist? Or a Socialist? Or a Trotskyist? Or some other set of beliefs and issues that can't be accurately pigeonholed into our "Big tent" view of American politics?
 
2012-10-26 04:33:43 PM
For some, not voting equals not participating in a sham. The corporate/elite/rich/1-percent control both parties. There is no choice, it's a 1-party system.
 
2012-10-26 04:35:22 PM

The Southern Logic Company: GanjSmokr: The Southern Logic Company: Who do I write? What candidate represents my views? Is it better to go vote and write in myself than to not vote at all?

There's an easy way to find that out.
http://www.isidewith.com

Ever consider I might be an Anarchist? Or a Socialist? Or a Trotskyist? Or some other set of beliefs and issues that can't be accurately pigeonholed into our "Big tent" view of American politics?


Yes, I did consider those options. And many more that you probably don't want to know about...

There still might be a candidate for you... did you even bother to answer the questions on the site?
 
2012-10-26 04:38:08 PM

GanjSmokr: The Southern Logic Company: GanjSmokr: The Southern Logic Company: Who do I write? What candidate represents my views? Is it better to go vote and write in myself than to not vote at all?

There's an easy way to find that out.
http://www.isidewith.com

Ever consider I might be an Anarchist? Or a Socialist? Or a Trotskyist? Or some other set of beliefs and issues that can't be accurately pigeonholed into our "Big tent" view of American politics?

Yes, I did consider those options. And many more that you probably don't want to know about...

There still might be a candidate for you... did you even bother to answer the questions on the site?


At work atm, blocked by the filter.
 
2012-10-26 04:38:48 PM

Hobo Jr.: Alabamian voting for Obama.

I might as well throw my vote away.


Kentuckian voting for Obama.

I share your pain.
 
2012-10-26 04:40:20 PM

daveUSMC: Let me preface this by addressing everyone that parades war veterans around as vote guilt trips: Go fark yourselves with rusty light sabers. I've spent the last 9 months of my life in this shiathole they call Afghanistan "earning" my right to vote or not. That said... begin manifesto:

I'm not against voting per se, but I am against voting for people I don't actually want in power. And I will never feel bad for staying away because of that. So, unless there is someone on the ballot that I would legitimately like to see in power, I feel no duty to vote. Otherwise, I'm just empowering and lending legitimacy to a systematic and self-propagating turd farm of politicians who do more and more to erode my other rights and freedoms. Even if I vote for a lesser of two evils, I have still become a part of a statistic that now is used as justification for bad policy; "President X has a mandate to bomb the shiat out of Canada because 55% of the population voted for him." I won't be part of that 55%

I am also against encouraging people to vote just for the sake of voting. Intellectually and socially, it pats people on the ass for simply "letting their voice be heard" no matter how out of tune and terrible their voice is. It's like giving everyone on Little Bobby's soccer team a participation trophy, even though they spent the entire game eating grass and chasing butterflies while the other team scored 50 goals, kicked Bobby's puppy, and got to third base with Bobby's mother's too for good measure. The simple act of voting is not noble (nor ignoble); it is not to be commended (or scorned) any more than eating a bowl of froot loops for breakfast. HOW you vote is the measure of your accomplishment of your civic duty.

I guess if someone has taken the time to carefully sift through the layers of horseshiat and actually believes that the D or R nominees are really someone they WANT in power (vice doing it to prevent the other guy from winning), fine. By all means, go and vote for th ...


That was beautiful.
 
2012-10-26 04:42:10 PM

The Southern Logic Company: At work atm, blocked by the filter.


You should take it when you're home. For entertainment purposes if for nothing else.
 
2012-10-26 04:44:14 PM

daveUSMC: I'm not against voting per se, but I am against voting for people I don't actually want in power.


Yeah. Show me someone worth voting for and I'll go vote for them.
 
2012-10-26 04:44:40 PM

lennavan: AllUpInYa: I don't think there's anything substantive to reign in healthcare costs, and making insurance mandatory creates a seller's market. Do you think that ins providers won't collude to raise prices?

If they did, they would either have to spend that increased money on benefits, or return it to people in the form of a check.

The "80/20 rule" in the ACA mandates that health insurers spend at least 80% of their customers' premiums on health services, leaving no more than 20% for administrative costs and advertising. That means if an insurance company spends 78% of the money it collects on health benefits for customers, it has to send rebate checks for the additional 2%.


So, what if they don't fight as hard to keep medical expenses down and/or change the percentage that they cover?

What prevents health ins companies from raising their rates for equivalent coverage, since there doesn't seem to be a cap on healthcare costs?
 
2012-10-26 04:48:45 PM
I work an odd schedule, with 12 and sometimes 16 hour shifts sprinkled into the mix in random unannounced ways. It can at times be very difficult to make it to vote depending on how circumstances are, but I still do it. However, early voting is the best thing since sliced bread. I took my partner, my stepson, and myself to vote last week, we were all in and out in less than 15 minutes. If your precinct has early voting, you have no excuse.
 
2012-10-26 04:49:33 PM

AllUpInYa: So, what if they don't fight as hard to keep medical expenses down and/or change the percentage that they cover?


Then people will move to an insurance company that does.

AllUpInYa: What prevents health ins companies from raising their rates for equivalent coverage, since there doesn't seem to be a cap on healthcare costs?


I have no idea what you are saying here. Are you asking what stops hospitals and insurance companies from getting together and secretly agreeing to raise rates so hospitals can charge more? Well for one, the government. That'd be illegal. For two, again, people can move to an insurance company that has lower rates for equivalent coverage.

We've gone far off the point. I only argued Obamacare addresses the issue of bankruptcy and subsequent to that Obamacare is good. A public option would be better and single payer would be significantly better.
 
2012-10-26 04:50:38 PM

2headedboy: For some, not voting equals not participating in a sham. The corporate/elite/rich/1-percent control both parties. There is no choice, it's a 1-party system.


Really?

I used to think like that, when I was young and naive. Back in 2000 I saw no difference between Bush & Gore. I didn't trust Bush, and some stuff Lieberman said made me not want to vote for Gore. I did what I consider one of the great errors of my youth, I voted for Nader.

Do you really think Al Gore would have gone on with the "screw the environment, fark the world" agenda Shrub did? Would Al Gore have gone on the same single-minded zealous obsession with terrorism over most of the 2000's? I doubt it, I really do.

Voting for Obama is a vote for protecting the recently enacted healthcare reform, voting to support LBGT rights, and pro-choice. Voting for Romney is voting for saying "just don't get sick or hurt and you'll be okay", telling LBGT they are sinful perverts who don't deserve equal rights because that would destroy America, and essentially declaring eminent domain on uteruses.

Yeah, they are fairly alike on many issues, but those are also issues there is a pretty broad national consensus on, but there are differences, and if you need Obamacare to have health insurance, are LBGT, or are pro-choice you'd have to have extra holes in your head to sit by and let Rmoney get elected.

The Republican party as a whole has spent the last decade on a slide to the far right, to positions that would have been seen as extreme in the '90's. They spew derp like birtherism (and double down when it's debunked), wacky conspiracy theories and and parrot whatever talking points FOX News and AM talk radio tell them to think.

The two parties were much alike maybe 20 years ago, now we've got a centrist Democrat party and a far-right Republican party, and a center-right President Obama and an etch-a-sketch of Romney that is hard to pin down on most issues. He's like Schrodinger's candidate, outside of a few issues his position exists in a state of quantum uncertainty, and as soon as you know it. . .it changes.
 
2012-10-26 04:54:05 PM

AngryRadio: I work an odd schedule, with 12 and sometimes 16 hour shifts sprinkled into the mix in random unannounced ways. It can at times be very difficult to make it to vote depending on how circumstances are, but I still do it. However, early voting is the best thing since sliced bread. I took my partner, my stepson, and myself to vote last week, we were all in and out in less than 15 minutes. If your precinct has early voting, you have no excuse.


In Illinois they now allow absentee voting for any one. I filled my ballot out last night, mailed it this morning. No fuss, no muss.
I also like it because it gives me the opportunity to research candidates/propositions with the ballot right in front of me. An informed decision for the next Water Reclamation Commissioner is an informed decision, after all.
 
2012-10-26 04:58:20 PM

Silverstaff: Yeah, they are fairly alike on many issues


Specifically, he is focused on "the corporate/elite/rich/1-percent control both parties." No matter who is elected, there will be some favoritism towards the rich.

Romney wants to increase taxes on the middle class, reduce taxes on the wealthy, ban abortion, take away rights from gays, de-regulate the health insurance industry bringing us back to a time with pre-existing conditions denying coverage bankrupting us, de-regulating businesses and increase military spending by $2 trillion while lowering tax revenue by $5 trillion.

Obama wants to lower middle class taxes, raise taxes on the wealthy, allow abortion, treat gays as equal, regulate the health insurance industry and regulate businesses.

But they both will show some favoritism towards their donors in one way or another so both are equal and bad.
 
2012-10-26 04:59:13 PM
DNRTFT

You have two options: One is an oligarch-lover who is pro-war, anti-environment, anti-worker, will do nothing to stop Wall Street's domination, and will cut social security and medicare/medicade. The other one is Mitt Romney.

A vote for any politician is a vote for the system.
 
2012-10-26 05:00:27 PM
I'm for a simple civics test for people who want to vote. Knowing who the Vice President is, branches of government, elementary school stuff. This would help keep out 1. Total ignoramuses, 2. Mentally handicapped adults who have been specifically directed to vote a certain way by a parent or guardian. Not sure that second one is even a thing, but it couldn't happen with a test.

I don't believe in RIGHT to vote. I believe in duty or responsibility to vote. I don't feel it's a responsibility people with a low IQ or no ability to grasp how our country functions should undertake.
 
2012-10-26 05:03:12 PM

ZeroCorpse: No matter who you vote for, the SAME PEOPLE will be running the world. The President is a celebrity face chosen by the true powers-that-be, and we cannot vote for or against those powers-that-be. They run the world as they see fit, and placate the rest of us with hollow elections that have ZERO effect on the big picture.


you think president gore would've nominated alito or roberts to the bench? do you think president gore would've invaded iraq?
 
2012-10-26 05:03:21 PM

RanDomino: e


RanDomino: DNRTFT

You have two options: One is an oligarch-lover who is pro-war, anti-environment, anti-worker, will do nothing to stop Wall Street's domination, and will cut social security and medicare/medicade. The other one is Mitt Romney.

A vote for any politician is a vote for the system.


Once again, it bears repeating that you have no solutions, and the disingenuous way you paint the current administration and its accomplishments is frankly an outrage.
 
2012-10-26 05:04:44 PM

DeathByGeekSquad: I view it as abstaining from the vote, which would still be participating in the voting process. Yes/No/Abstain.


Then go in and officially spoil your ballot. Spoiled ballots send the message. Staying home sends only the message that you'll let them do anything they want to you; you can't be farked.
 
2012-10-26 05:07:12 PM
I'm in Chicago so I'll vote after I die.
 
2012-10-26 05:08:19 PM

roddack: SilentStrider: There are two acceptable reasons not to vote.

You're under age, or you're six feet under. Thats it.

3) You are uninformed and will just casting a random ballot because it is your "duty"


Thats not an excuse. Get your ass informed and get your ass to the voting booth.
 
2012-10-26 05:09:29 PM
Silverstaff
Do you really think Al Gore would have gone on with the "screw the environment, fark the world" agenda Shrub did?

Plenty here

Voting for Obama is a vote for protecting the recently enacted healthcare reform

Which undercut the possibility of single-payer, the only remotely humane option (but we can't offend those precious insurance corporations, now can we?)

voting to support LBGT rights

...to join the military. Oh, joy. Maybe some day, if we're really lucky, we'll see gay cops tear-gassing protestors and beating minorities, gay CIA agents overthrowing third world countries with populist democracies, gay bank CEOs kicking poor families out of their homes... Thank you, Obama!

you'd have to have extra holes in your head to sit by and let Rmoney get elected.

It's an insult to the hard work of thousands of activists that you imply the only alternative to working to re-elect Obama is to "sit around". No, I've seen how it works. We do all the work, and then the Democrats come by and take all the credit, pass some half-ass law that's totally insufficient, knock the wind out of our sails, and then make our activities illegal. fark the Democrats and fark you.
 
2012-10-26 05:11:04 PM
whidbey
Once again, it bears repeating that you have no solutions

Organize with solidarity and take direct action. It's not rocket science.
 
2012-10-26 05:13:48 PM

RanDomino: whidbey
Once again, it bears repeating that you have no solutions

Organize with solidarity and take direct action. It's not rocket science.


No, it's a bunch of hot air and words you're posting.

"Direct action" is supporting the Democratic leadership and not making patronizing comments about how they're worse than the scary right wing shiat we're seeing out of the Republicans.
 
2012-10-26 05:16:51 PM
whidbey
"Direct action" is supporting the Democratic leadership

March forward to a glorious future of permanent 8% (reported) unemployment, 50 million uninsured, and six times as many empty houses as homeless people!

than the scary right wing shiat we're seeing out of the Republicans.

Don't worry, we'll be calling the Democrats 'sane' for proposing the same things in 20 years.
 
2012-10-26 05:20:13 PM
I've always viewed not living in a swing state as having the freedom to vote for whoever is most closely aligned to your views without regret. Seriously, vote green, or libertarian, or socialist or even communist/fascist if you really feel that way, because fark the 2 party system. If your vote isn't counting anyway, make a statement.
 
2012-10-26 05:20:35 PM

RanDomino: "Direct action" is supporting the Democratic leadership

March forward to a glorious future of permanent 8% (reported) unemployment, 50 million uninsured, and six times as many empty houses as homeless people!


It's not going to change by pretending you're above it all, RanDomino.

than the scary right wing shiat we're seeing out of the Republicans.

Don't worry, we'll be calling the Democrats 'sane' for proposing the same things in 20 years.


They'd get a lot more sh*t passed if there weren't attitudes like yours that help Republican extremists get elected, and frankly, taken seriously.
 
2012-10-26 05:23:18 PM

RanDomino: March forward to a glorious future of permanent 8% (reported) unemployment


You do know we're creating jobs and unemployment is currently going down, not staying stagnant, right?

RanDomino: 50 million uninsured


You do know Obamacare increased the number of people who got insurance ranging from getting rid of pre-existing conditions, not allowing people to be dropped coverage for hitting a lifetime maximum and allowing people to stay on their parents health care until they are 26, thus directly providing access to insurance for millions of Americans who otherwise would not have it, right?

RanDomino: six times as many empty houses as homeless people!


You do know Obama has proposed legislation to directly help homeowners who are struggling to pay their mortgage, right?

RanDomino: voting to support LBGT rights

...to join the military.


You do know Obama did more on LBGT rights than repealing DADT, right?
 
2012-10-26 05:24:45 PM

lennavan: You do know Obama did more on LBGT rights than repealing DADT, right?


I'm guessing "no," Obama is part of the Deaf Machine, or some bullsh*t.

I really sick of having to defend my support to ideologues with no solutions.
 
2012-10-26 05:31:30 PM
whidbey
It's not going to change by pretending you're above it all, RanDomino.

No, but it IS going to change if we start doing more of that shiat OURSELVES rather than relying on a government and economic system that hates us.

They'd get a lot more sh*t passed if there weren't attitudes like yours that help Republican extremists get elected, and frankly, taken seriously.

The difference between the Democrats and the Republicans is that the Democrats say to their radicals "Shut up! You're making us look bad (to the GOP base)!" and the Republicans say to their radicals "Crank it up, if it's between you and us they'll pick us every time!"

Or shall I point to Obama's unilateral removal of Single Payer from the table before it was even demanded by the Republicans? Even if he knew it had no chance, you keep the outrageous demand as a bargaining chip. Obama's not stupid. He knows this. Now tell me, what other possible reason could he have for doing this, hmm?

Or how Obama wanted to keep the troops in Iraq, but the Iraqi government refused to grant them legal immunity?

The extrajudicial, unpunished, and unapologetic killing of a 15 year old US citizen in a drone strike last year? "He should have had a more responsible father."

God damn, this just keeps getting easier and easier. If this wasn't so effortless I wouldn't even bother with blind fanatics like you.
 
2012-10-26 05:31:35 PM
There are only a handful of issues that are really, really important in the big picture of things, and upon which these 2 candidates are diametrically opposed.

HUGE Issue (top priority, long-term)... The wealth differential between the top few % and the poors is getting far, far worse and is utterly unsustainable in a free society. It is profoundly, fundamentally unAmerican. And one guy thinks it's just fine like that.

HUGE Issue (middle-distance view)... Supreme Court appointees. Probably 2, possibly 3. Bye-bye porn and gay marriage, and quite possibly abortion rights. Hello expanded rights of corporations to own your private information and run your life. And hello again to being denied health coverage due to pre-existing conditions.

HUGE Issue (nearer term)... Do you want a full-on war with Iran? Yes or no? Because that's the decision you need to make, right farking now.


That's it. Make your choices based on those 3 things, if it's all getting too confusing to you.
 
2012-10-26 05:34:03 PM
Mr_Fabulous
HUGE Issue (top priority, long-term)... The wealth differential between the top few % and the poors is getting far, far worse and is utterly unsustainable in a free society. It is profoundly, fundamentally unAmerican. And one guy thinks it's just fine like that.

Ah, so Obama is proposing a top marginal tax rate of something at least a little more reasonable, like 80%, yes?

HUGE Issue (nearer term)... Do you want a full-on war with Iran? Yes or no? Because that's the decision you need to make, right farking now.

Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of Obama and Romney taking turns sucking Israel's dick.
 
2012-10-26 05:37:26 PM

RanDomino: Which undercut the possibility of single-payer, the only remotely humane option (but we can't offend those precious insurance corporations, now can we?)


Do you think that there's any chance AT ALL that the US Congress would support a single-payer system anytime in the next 20 years? There isn't. President Obama tried to get the "public option" included, which at least was Government provided insurance that anybody could buy, but Republicans blocked it.

What exists in the ACA is what could be dragged, kicking and screaming, from Congress. It's imperfect, it's watered down, but it's way better than what we had before and it's the first step towards something better.

Progressive ideals are far better served by voting for Obama, who holds those ideals even if they get tempered by political realities sometimes, than to not vote, vote for Romney, or flush your vote down the toilet with a vote for a third-party candidate who has a snowballs chance in a nuclear blast of even getting a single electoral vote.

I'm a progressive myself, I'd love for the US to have single-payer healthcare and a tax code that helps fix income inequality, but that is tempered with realism and knowing the political reality. That means voting Democratic, supporting the most progressive candidates in the Democrat primaries, and reminding my elected officials that the Democratic party still has a leftist element to it.
 
2012-10-26 05:39:43 PM

Deucednuisance: Perhaps you should exercise your franchise and vote in some folks who can Get Shiat Done?


Can't be done. The system is corrupt from start to finish. It's systemic.
 
2012-10-26 05:39:47 PM

RanDomino: Mr_Fabulous
HUGE Issue (top priority, long-term)... The wealth differential between the top few % and the poors is getting far, far worse and is utterly unsustainable in a free society. It is profoundly, fundamentally unAmerican. And one guy thinks it's just fine like that.

Ah, so Obama is proposing a top marginal tax rate of something at least a little more reasonable, like 80%, yes?

HUGE Issue (nearer term)... Do you want a full-on war with Iran? Yes or no? Because that's the decision you need to make, right farking now.

Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of Obama and Romney taking turns sucking Israel's dick.



Your concern is noted.

On your first point... yeah, a problem 32 years in the making isn't going to go away in the next 4. But one guy is going to make it worse, and the other probably isn't.

On your second point... I stand by what I said. One of those guys is going to take us to war with Iran, and the other probably will not.

Whine all you want, but I'm right.
 
2012-10-26 05:39:54 PM

RanDomino: whidbey
It's not going to change by pretending you're above it all, RanDomino.

No, but it IS going to change if we start doing more of that shiat OURSELVES rather than relying on a government and economic system that hates us.


You act as if it's impossible to do that while supporting a major political party.

The difference between the Democrats and the Republicans is that the Democrats say to their radicals "Shut up! You're making us look bad (to the GOP base)!" and the Republicans say to their radicals "Crank it up, if it's between you and us they'll pick us every time!"

Yes, because both sides are the same. We know you think that.

Too bad it isn't really true.

Or shall I point to Obama's unilateral removal of Single Payer from the table before it was even demanded by the Republicans? Even if he knew it had no chance, you keep the outrageous demand as a bargaining chip. Obama's not stupid. He knows this. Now tell me, what other possible reason could he have for doing this, hmm?

Because we live in a right-wing country and that was the best deal he--or anyone-- was going to get. I know, that's so unthinkably simple to you.

Or how Obama wanted to keep the troops in Iraq, but the Iraqi government refused to grant them legal immunity?

The extrajudicial, unpunished, and unapologetic killing of a 15 year old US citizen in a drone strike last year? "He should have had a more responsible father."


All that shiat happened because people voted for Bush and his aggressive military policy.
Twice. And your holier/hipper than thou attitude helped elect that, just as you're helping to elect it --again.

God damn, this just keeps getting easier and easier. If this wasn't so effortless I wouldn't even bother with blind fanatics like you.

Dude, you are SO the fanatic here. I wouldn't be talking.
 
2012-10-26 05:41:40 PM

FarkedOver: I can understand not voting from an anti-capitalist standpoint. Your vote is going toward a candidate that wants to maintain the same old capitalist system. On the other hand, writing someone in or voting third party has its merits.

The socialist organization that I am a member of has decided to endorse voting for Jill Stein, but not her platform.

Voting for democrats and republicans is feeding the corrupt system.

/Remember, the lesser of two evils is still evil.


Go back to Russia, commie.
 
2012-10-26 05:42:54 PM

Silverstaff: What exists in the ACA is what could be dragged, kicking and screaming, from Congress. It's imperfect, it's watered down, but it's way better than what we had before and it's the first step towards something better.


It's like the Civil Rights Act of 1957. Deeply flawed, widely reviled and ultimately dumped. But it was an important foot in the door, and is taught in every U.S. history class in America today.
 
2012-10-26 05:46:06 PM

lennavan: Romney wants to increase taxes on the middle class, reduce taxes on the wealthy, ban abortion, take away rights from gays, de-regulate the health insurance industry bringing us back to a time with pre-existing conditions denying coverage bankrupting us, de-regulating businesses and increase military spending by $2 trillion while lowering tax revenue by $5 trillion.

be president. You can't take anything he says at face value. Not a single thing.
 
2012-10-26 05:46:09 PM

Honest Bender: Paelian: at least I did not participate in the facade of representative government and help lend it legitimacy.

Once upon a time in my youth, when I knew everything (as we all do in our teenage years), I tried to imagine what the perfect form of government would be.

I came to the conclusion that there are exactly two forms of government that would work well:

1. Pure democracy. None of that republican nonesense. And I use these terms in the literal sense, not in reference to our political parties. The only catch to such a system is that everyone who votes must be completely and thoroughly educated on the topic they are to vote on. And I mean it. No biased reporting, no spin or half truths. 100% knowledgeable on the topic at hand.

2. A pure dictatorship. You put one person in charge of the entire populace. They have their delegates for handling the menial day to day stuff but policy is left completely up to the dictator. The catch is that the dictator has to be 100% benevolent. They have to have the people's interests in mind and ONLY the people's interests in mind. This person doesn't have to be perfect but as long as they listen to the people and make well informed decisions it should work out (more or less).

I think we can all agree that both 1 and 2 are so improbable as to be considered impossible to achieve.


What about a third type? I call it a direct representative democracy but I've heard 'fluid democracy' and 'dynamic democracy' used as well.

To put the idea simply:

You can either participate in each vote directly, or you can delegate your vote to someone you think is more informed and has your interests at heart. This delegation is revokable at any time.

Of course, this one is also impossible, but possibly less so...
 
2012-10-26 06:05:47 PM

whidbey:

They'd get a lot more sh*t passed if there weren't attitudes like yours that help Republican extremists get elected, and frankly, taken seriously.


Like when they had the Presidency, House, and Senate?
 
2012-10-26 06:08:19 PM
Silverstaff
Do you think that there's any chance AT ALL that the US Congress would support a single-payer system anytime in the next 20 years? There isn't. President Obama tried to get the "public option" included, which at least was Government provided insurance that anybody could buy, but Republicans blocked it.

As everyone knew they would. So why not just shoot for the moon? Maybe they would have accepted Public Option if they were told they had to choose between that and Single Payer.

it's the first step towards something better.

I've seen many people assert that, and none give any kind of argument.

Progressive ideals are far better served by voting for Obama, who holds those ideals even if they get tempered by political realities sometimes, than to not vote, vote for Romney, or flush your vote down the toilet with a vote for a third-party candidate who has a snowballs chance in a nuclear blast of even getting a single electoral vote.

Vote, sure. If it makes you feel good. Just don't believe in it. Real change has never come solely through the ballot box. If you aren't organizing and acting in other ways, shut the fark up because your opinion is worthless.

and reminding my elected officials that the Democratic party still has a leftist element to it.

They will pay you lip service and ignore you. If you're lucky they may set up a ruse that allows you to blame those darn Republicans.


whidbey
You act as if it's impossible to do that while supporting a major political party.

The Democrats are in the business of portraying themselves as allied with radicals, and then selling them out. I witnessed it first-hand in Wisconsin. fark the Democrats.

Because we live in a right-wing country and that was the best deal he--or anyone-- was going to get.

Thanks for agreeing with my fundamental point that it's impossible to get anything more than barely sufficient within politics.

All that shiat happened because people voted for Bush and his aggressive military policy.

Those gosh darn The People. It's all THEIR fault!


Mr_Fabulous
It's like the Civil Rights Act of 1957. Deeply flawed, widely reviled and ultimately dumped. But it was an important foot in the door

To what? Black people are hardly better off economically than they were then. I'm sure you'll agree there are no negative connotations to the word "ghetto" here in bizarroworld.

Again, the government made a half-ass 'reform' that undermined grassroots activism because it threatened to succeed.
 
2012-10-26 06:08:50 PM

AllUpInYa: whidbey:

They'd get a lot more sh*t passed if there weren't attitudes like yours that help Republican extremists get elected, and frankly, taken seriously.

Like when they had the Presidency, House, and Senate?


Blanket statement, much?

If you really want to have a discussion about the past 4 years, maybe you should take the time to learn about them. Just a tip.
 
2012-10-26 06:11:05 PM
AllUpInYa
Like when they had the Presidency, House, and Senate?

But but but old people were yelling :(
 
2012-10-26 06:11:25 PM

RanDomino: whidbey
You act as if it's impossible to do that while supporting a major political party.

The Democrats are in the business of portraying themselves as allied with radicals, and then selling them out. I witnessed it first-hand in Wisconsin. fark the Democrats.


Bullsh*t. The entire debacle in WI was because of Scott Walker and the Republican party. Don't even be lying about it.

Because we live in a right-wing country and that was the best deal he--or anyone-- was going to get.

Thanks for agreeing with my fundamental point that it's impossible to get anything more than barely sufficient within politics.


I haven't agreed with anything you've said here.

All that shiat happened because people voted for Bush and his aggressive military policy.

Those gosh darn The People. It's all THEIR fault!


You've shown quite the history of not being able to grasp how apathetic the American people are. Not surprised you still don't get it.
 
2012-10-26 06:16:05 PM
whidbey
Bullsh*t. The entire debacle in WI was because of Scott Walker and the Republican party. Don't even be lying about it.

We took over the farking capitol building before the Democrats wrenched control. If it hadn't been for them driving it into electoral bullshiat and sucking out all the energy, we might have won.

You can't argue with results: The Democrats FAILED. Blame the Republicans all you like, but the fact remains that even if the Democrats are on our side, THEY CAN'T SAVE US.

You've shown quite the history of not being able to grasp how apathetic the American people are. Not surprised you still don't get it.

MUST... BLAME... OTHERS... HRRGH... DEMOCRATS... PERFECT...
 
2012-10-26 06:18:06 PM
Illusion of Choice!
New is same! No change!
Empty Suit!

BLARGH
 
xcv
2012-10-26 06:18:50 PM
Congress was able to make
 
xcv
2012-10-26 06:20:26 PM
/wrong thread. Damn add comment button.
 
2012-10-26 06:21:55 PM

RanDomino: You've shown quite the history of not being able to grasp how apathetic the American people are. Not surprised you still don't get it.

MUST... BLAME... OTHERS... HRRGH... DEMOCRATS... PERFECT...


I wonder. Could you possibly even more disingenuous in this exchange?

You can't argue with results: The Democrats FAILED. Blame the Republicans all you like, but the fact remains that even if the Democrats are on our side, THEY CAN'T SAVE US.

Obama isn't trying to get rid of unions.

What world do you live in half the time, RanDomino?
 
2012-10-26 07:15:31 PM

whidbey: What world do you live in half the time, RanDomino?


You know those Conservatives who think everything is a Liberal conspiracy? That the media, unions, teachers, and basically everyone except Real Americans are evil Libs out to ruin America?

RanDomino is experiencing the left-wing version of that, thinking everyone (except them) is part of some big corporate conspiracy and it's all the same, none meet his standards of being good and pure enough to work for The People. Democrats aren't liberal enough. Because we don't have single payer RIGHT NOW it's not good enough, and we still have police and a military we're an oppressive warmongering police state. . .

When I was young and naive, I thought like he did, that it was all the same, that there was no difference between Republicans and Democrats, that it was all a shell game. It's false sophistry, it's that sort of fake wisdom you get when you're in college and think you know so much you've started to see it all. Fake wisdom blended with the honest care for your fellow man that underlies progressivism creates this apathetic chimera that generates no actual progress.

Maybe at one point both parties were so similiar that there was some truth to that, at least a kernel of truth, but nowadays the right has gone far-right, and the only way to put the breaks on that national rightward slide is for the center and left to stand together and pull. . .the levers on ballot boxes.

One vote at a time, one election at a time. Progress will come. It will be slow, painful, awkward, but inevitable.

If there really were some vast conspiracy, they'd want people to not vote, to opt out of the system and assume the fix was in. It's a lot easier to rig the system when nobody is watching closely and not a lot of people are voting. An informed, active electorate is much more troublesome than an apathetic, passive one (no matter why they are passive, and if you're not voting, you're passive)
 
2012-10-26 07:17:49 PM

Silverstaff: Maybe at one point both parties were so similiar that there was some truth to that, at least a kernel of truth, but nowadays the right has gone far-right, and the only way to put the breaks on that national rightward slide is for the center and left to stand together and pull. . .the levers on ballot boxes.

 
2012-10-26 07:23:40 PM

GanjSmokr: SweetSaws: The candidate i want, Gary Johnson (L), has been sued off the ballot by the Republicans in my state. So why would I waste my time voting when I refuse to vote for Obama or Romney, and can't vote for the candidate i want?

Which state is that? Last I checked, Gary Johnson was on 48 state ballots with OK having nobody but O/R (with no write ins) and MI allows a write in of GJ.


Michigan. Oh wow, i didn't realize i could write him in. They sure have not done a good job advertising that fact. Now i'll vote!
 
2012-10-26 07:27:50 PM

SweetSaws: Michigan. Oh wow, i didn't realize i could write him in. They sure have not done a good job advertising that fact. Now i'll vote!


You hit the nail on the head as to why 3rd party candidates are a joke.

They can't even market themselves in a fashion that they're taken serously.
 
2012-10-26 07:38:52 PM
I early voted for Mitt in a swing state.
 
2012-10-26 07:39:54 PM

TheAuldTriangle: I early voted for Mitt in a swing state.


Fabulous.

You can go do your little dance in Hell, now.
 
2012-10-26 07:41:12 PM
I'll vote as soon as I no longer have to pick the lesser of two evils. As it is I'd just write myself in for every single elected position and that's a vote wasted. We haven't had an honorable president in more than a hundred years and I'd be surprised if there had been a single honorable person in any elected office in this country in the past 50. The system, its members, and its results, are absolutely disgusting and I'll not have anything to do with it.

Put another way, I think participating in our electoral system is as pathetic and irrelevant as participating in American Idol's electoral process. Screw merits, who's making the noise that I want to hear?

/Never vote for someone who actually wants the job.
 
2012-10-26 07:43:46 PM

Mr. Ekshun: I'll vote as soon as I no longer have to pick the lesser of two evils


Actually, not voting is all is a vote for the greater evil. Not that I[d expect you to understand that or anything, since this isn't your first time you've been confronted, or from the sound of it, the last.
 
2012-10-26 07:51:45 PM
I_Hate_Iowa: Listen, you moronic cum stains. It's not about one vote determining the outcome. It's about representation. Every vote closer to 100% turnout means truer representation in government. 100% voter turnout means 100% true representation of the American people in our government. And if no-information voters go out and vote in idiots, then that's pretty representative isn't it?

And you're not just voting for president, idiots. I could make a strong argument that results of local races will have much more effect on your life than president. People need to care a lot more about who their city council member or state senator is than they currently do.

Farking vote, idiots.


This is why I dont vote. People like you outnumber informed people 50-1 and determine who runs our country. You are the best description of the situation our country is in, how it got there, and why it's only going to get worse
 
2012-10-26 07:53:45 PM

Gdalescrboz: This is why I dont vot


I honestly don't know why anyone would brag about being that stupid.

Sorry, Well, not really/
 
2012-10-26 07:56:12 PM

rumpelstiltskin: Voting is a responsiblilty in a democracy, not a right.


First, guarantee that all or any voting is not rigged. THEN you may climb back upon your high horse.
 
2012-10-26 07:56:15 PM

Honest Bender: ProfessorOhki: If you don't vote at all, you're still tossing it in the trash; same net.

Yes. That's exactly the point I was trying to make. That the difference between voting and not voting is the same as leaving a piece of trash in the trash can vs. picking it up and selecting a different trash can to put it in.

But apparently I have a civic duty to select which trash can my trash should be put into. Regardless of the fact that it's all going to the landfill.


No. It's the difference between leaving a piece of trash on the ground and picking it up and putting it in a can. At least with the can, someone might notice that the can's been more full than usual lately. I wouldn't say you have a civic duty, but if you might as well complain in a way that leaves a record.
 
2012-10-26 08:00:19 PM

WordyGrrl: wildcardjack: I'm in Texas. Is that enough of an excuse to stay home?

No, get out there and vote! Too many people seem to think Texas votes 99% Republican, but that's not the case. It's been edging closer to 50/50. In the 2008 general election, McCain got 55.45%, while Obama got 43.68%. The US Senatorial race went 54.82% Republican to 42.83% Dem. And there are plenty of areas in Texas that are solidly Democratic.

Texan Democrats DO have the power to close those gaps and turn Texas purple (or blue) if they'd just get out there and vote instead of staying home and whining that "Oh, Texas is a red state so my vote doesn't count."  Go out there and kick some elephant ass!


I'm thinking about the horror that is Ohio this month and I don't know if I want Texas to become a swing state.
 
2012-10-26 08:04:17 PM
I'd tell you all how I feel about voting, but I can't until Wednesday when my column runs.

Sorry.
 
2012-10-26 08:11:51 PM
Actually, the number cause of bankruptcy is not having a good paying job. Obama sure as hell has not addressed that.
 
2012-10-26 08:19:45 PM

ZeroCorpse: FlashHarry: shiat like this just makes my blood farking boil. what farking arrogance. what farking laziness. what farking entitlement. when millions live under oppressive dictatorship around the world, to not exercise your sacred right of suffrage is just farking disgusting.

Oh, shut up.

I was extremely politically active for years. Before I could vote legally, I volunteered for political causes. From 18 onward, I voted in every election-- even the little local ones that everyone else ignored-- Because I had the idea that I was making some sort of difference.

And maybe in those little local elections I was making a difference. But in a Presidential election? A national election? I've learned better in the 23 years since I first filled in a ballot.

No matter who you vote for, the SAME PEOPLE will be running the world. The President is a celebrity face chosen by the true powers-that-be, and we cannot vote for or against those powers-that-be. They run the world as they see fit, and placate the rest of us with hollow elections that have ZERO effect on the big picture.

You say it's laziness, arrogance, and entitlement for me not to vote. I say it's pure, 100% childish naivety that motivates you to vote.

Here's what going to happen when the next Presidency begins: NOTHING DIFFERENT. Oh, sure, they'll say they're making changes, providing new possibilities, and pumping hope and sunshine up our asses, but then the bureaucratic process will kick in-- as it's designed to do-- and we'll get the same as we've always gotten from the powerful men in charge of this world: Just enough to keep us arguing with each other, participating in their economic design, and consuming like the complacent slugs our species became about two thousand years ago.

You say I'm an arrogant, lazy, entitled person for making the decision to opt out of the farce that is our election process. I say you're a naive fool who might as well be voting for unicorns and pots of gold at the end of rainbows, ...


So, do you intend to do anything but biatch biatch biatch?

What will you do with your enlightened perceptions of our true persecution by our betters?

You know... until you are handed a situation that allows you to conveniently vote "yay or nay" against all the corruption and bad things in the world?

You think you have a monopoly on cynicism? Everyone just doesn't understand it the way you do... if only they could see things so clearly for what they were they would know it's all futile.

I admit, there are plenty of days I feel that way but one day you will be dead, and so will I, and since the game is already rigged and over before it began I guess there isn't much point in getting out of bed in the morning.

You have every right to feel the way you do, but you should recognize your nothing but a crybaby. You sound like a 20 year old that just realized the world wasn't what his cute poli sci teacher told him it was.

Maybe one vote doesn't do shiat, but you sure as hell aren't going to change anything lying down. You and yours act like if you don't vote, if you ignore the political process someone will suddenly say "hey guys, voter turnout is low, we should change the way we run this country and totally not just focus on swaying the vote of the X% that still turn out"

Government is corrupt, rigged, dirty and rotten to the core. But those that run it, the evils you espouse as unremovable and unchangeable... all men like you or me. That's all they are. You go on like we are trying to vote against the will of an almighty God.

You are the reason we fail. Why it seems so impossible. Quit biatching about the world and look in a goddamn mirror.

shiat in life didn't work out the way you thought it would?
Let me call the papers, stop the presses!

fark man, from a true cynic let me tell you, you've gone from cynic to full on retard. And you never go full retard.
 
2012-10-26 08:34:30 PM
Reason.com: The Case for Not Voting:

In his 1851 book Social Statics, the English radical Herbert Spencer neatly describes the rhetorical jujitsu surrounding voting, consent, and complaint, then demolishes the argument.

Say a man votes and his candidate wins. The voter is then "understood to have assented" to the acts of his representative.

But what if he voted for the other guy? Well, then, the argument goes, "by taking part in such an election, he tacitly agreed to abide by the decision of the majority."

And what if he abstained? "Why then he cannot justly complain...seeing that he made no protest."

Spencer tidily sums up: "Curiously enough, it seems that he gave his consent in whatever way he acted-whether he said yes, whether he said no, or whether he remained neuter! A rather awkward doctrine this."
 
2012-10-26 08:36:01 PM

Niveras: Spencer tidily sums up: "Curiously enough, it seems that he gave his consent in whatever way he acted-whether he said yes, whether he said no, or whether he remained neuter! A rather awkward doctrine this."


Well, somebody was a bit confused as to what constitutes citizen responsibility. Maybe it was all that "snuff" they used to get off on back then.
 
2012-10-26 08:47:08 PM

wildcardjack: WordyGrrl: wildcardjack: I'm in Texas. Is that enough of an excuse to stay home?

No, get out there and vote! Too many people seem to think Texas votes 99% Republican, but that's not the case. It's been edging closer to 50/50. In the 2008 general election, McCain got 55.45%, while Obama got 43.68%. The US Senatorial race went 54.82% Republican to 42.83% Dem. And there are plenty of areas in Texas that are solidly Democratic.

Texan Democrats DO have the power to close those gaps and turn Texas purple (or blue) if they'd just get out there and vote instead of staying home and whining that "Oh, Texas is a red state so my vote doesn't count."  Go out there and kick some elephant ass!

I'm thinking about the horror that is Ohio this month and I don't know if I want Texas to become a swing state.


Just let the calls go to voicemail and cancel your cable. Explore the wonder that is Hulu, Netflix, and the World Wide Web. There are even websites that will let you watch "Honey Boo Boo" and other fine television moments for free and without commercials.

/Someday when I get time, I'd like to compile a "Honey Boo Boo/Walking Dead" mashup promo.
 
2012-10-26 08:58:39 PM
A challenger appears: What If I don't want to vote for any of the candidates?

If both of the big 2 suck so bad that you don't even consider 1 the "lesser evil" just vote for a 3rd party person that you are essentially throwing away your vote on so you can essentially skip the POTUS but still actually vote on like you governor, senators, congressman, state rep etc.
 
2012-10-26 09:12:56 PM

mekkab: Oh, so you think voting actually matters?

Let me laugh even harder.


The tea party seems to think it does. 2010 was a big change from 2008. An organized left could do the same to the makup of the democratic party.
 
2012-10-26 09:15:44 PM

Oldiron_79: A challenger appears: What If I don't want to vote for any of the candidates?

If both of the big 2 suck so bad that you don't even consider 1 the "lesser evil" just vote for a 3rd party person that you are essentially throwing away your vote on so you can essentially skip the POTUS but still actually vote on like you governor, senators, congressman, state rep etc.


I understand the "throwing away the vote" mindset that makes people vote for the big 2.

But after this many decades of repeated failure (the big 2 can't fix the debt nor economy), can we not vote for a third party that can?
 
2012-10-26 09:23:01 PM

Niveras: Spencer tidily sums up: "Curiously enough, it seems that he gave his consent in whatever way he acted-whether he said yes, whether he said no, or whether he remained neuter! A rather awkward doctrine this."


Curiously enough, Spencer was unable to look up from his micro-inspection of one man's actions and acknowledge the macro-mechanics of the election itself. Which is, that it's constituted solely by those individual votes.

Interesting that the man who coined the term 'survival of the fittest' would have all serious regard for his philosophies die with him.

But what more can one expect from a libertarian blowhard? So full of his own purist b.s. he could never see the impracticality because he refused to acknowledge how the world actually worked.

He was the 19th century version of the same brand of idiots that thought the repeal of Glass-Steagall was a good idea.
Unfortunate he didn't live to see the Great Depression (the fruition of the brand of governing and economic philosophy he subscribed to).

I agree with his agnosticism... however I have a funny feeling that where we differ is that while I simply don't know if there is a God, I'm confident Spencer simply didn't know anything at all.
 
2012-10-26 09:23:18 PM
bmihura: Oldiron_79: A challenger appears: What If I don't want to vote for any of the candidates?

If both of the big 2 suck so bad that you don't even consider 1 the "lesser evil" just vote for a 3rd party person that you are essentially throwing away your vote on so you can essentially skip the POTUS but still actually vote on like you governor, senators, congressman, state rep etc.

I understand the "throwing away the vote" mindset that makes people vote for the big 2.

But after this many decades of repeated failure (the big 2 can't fix the debt nor economy), can we not vote for a third party that can?


the problem is you need minimum 4 parties for there to be more than 2.

If you have 3, the third will either get almost all his votes splitting the Republican vote (like Perot in '92 and '96) or get almost all their votes splitting the Democrats (like Wallace in '68) it would pretty much be impossible for 1 3rd party to split evenly from the Dems and Repubs
 
2012-10-26 09:40:14 PM
Considering how much the average American understand regarding civics, the candidates and their platforms; it's not such a bad thing.
 
2012-10-26 10:08:04 PM
One of these guys is worse than other one and anyone who has a chance to do something about that but doesn't care is a stupid asshole.
 
2012-10-26 10:15:04 PM
Official Early Voting List

If your state is in this list, you can vote right now up to and including the date in parenthesis (November, October). Don't wait, vote while it's convenient and get it done!

Alaska (N6), Arizona (N2), Arkansas (N5), California (N6), Colorado (N2), DC (N3), Georgia (N2), Hawaii (N3), Idaho (N2), Illinois (N3), Indiana (N5), Iowa (N5), Kansas, (N5), Louisiana (O30), Maine (N6), Maryland (N1), Montana (N5), Nebraska (N5), Nevada (N2), New Jersey (N5), New Mexico (N3), North Carolina (N3), North Dakota (N5), Ohio (N5), South Dakota (N6), Tennessee (N1), Texas (N2), Utah (N2), Vermont (N5), West Virginia (N3), Wisconsin (N2), Wyoming (N5)

If your state isn't in this list, head to this site to see if your early voting date is coming.

If your state doesn't early vote, vote November 6th.

Finally, remember that your vote counts in local and state elections too. Just because your state is "safe" in the presidential election doesn't mean it's not important for your representatives or senators (and local officials/judges!).
Vote everywhere!


/Really, defending not voting?
//Vote
 
2012-10-26 10:23:11 PM
I'm lucky in that I work 11a to 7p, get back in town around 7:30, and the polls (a mile from my house) close at 8. No lines, I'm in and out in less than 5 minutes. Could hardly be easier.
 
2012-10-26 10:34:48 PM
Citizen#1 to citizen#2: You know the two worst things regarding politics is ignorance and apathy; so what do you think we should do about it?

Citizen#2: I dont know and I dont care.
 
2012-10-26 10:36:16 PM
here in australia, voting is mandatory and minor parties actually hold the balance of power in parliament.

the result is a more involved and informed* electorate where fringe issues on all sides actually get a hearing, not just the gong of big business.


*this is not to say we don't have our idiots and passive resistors, but when you're getting 98% turnout and 95% countable ballots, involvement isn't debatable. and never overlook people's need to not feel stupid - even if they're only becoming marginally informed
 
2012-10-26 10:51:02 PM

AmbassadorBooze: 7. Local elections. See example 6. I go to certain meetings, as they effect the job that I do, and when these idiots have proposals or new ideas etc. None of them understand anything. Then when I get up to the podium and explain it to them, they glaze over like I am explaining fusion or ancient egyptian writing.


This hyar.

It is way past time to found the Reason Party. There are reasonable approaches to damn near every issue. It's a shame that no current party extols them as an ovewhelming majority of their platform.
 
2012-10-26 11:28:23 PM

Honest Bender: RedVentrue: Next time he will get to debate. Remember 1992 debate with Perot.

No. I was 8.


My first election had 3 candidates for POTUS Bill Clinton, George Bush the 1st, and Ross Perot. At one point Perot had near 60% of the vote, then someone treatened to kill his family, so he backed out of the race. That's American politics for you.
 
2012-10-26 11:47:46 PM

shkkmo: Honest Bender: Paelian: at least I did not participate in the facade of representative government and help lend it legitimacy.

Once upon a time in my youth, when I knew everything (as we all do in our teenage years), I tried to imagine what the perfect form of government would be.

I came to the conclusion that there are exactly two forms of government that would work well:

1. Pure democracy. None of that republican nonesense. And I use these terms in the literal sense, not in reference to our political parties. The only catch to such a system is that everyone who votes must be completely and thoroughly educated on the topic they are to vote on. And I mean it. No biased reporting, no spin or half truths. 100% knowledgeable on the topic at hand.

2. A pure dictatorship. You put one person in charge of the entire populace. They have their delegates for handling the menial day to day stuff but policy is left completely up to the dictator. The catch is that the dictator has to be 100% benevolent. They have to have the people's interests in mind and ONLY the people's interests in mind. This person doesn't have to be perfect but as long as they listen to the people and make well informed decisions it should work out (more or less).

I think we can all agree that both 1 and 2 are so improbable as to be considered impossible to achieve.

What about a third type? I call it a direct representative democracy but I've heard 'fluid democracy' and 'dynamic democracy' used as well.

To put the idea simply:

You can either participate in each vote directly, or you can delegate your vote to someone you think is more informed and has your interests at heart. This delegation is revokable at any time.

Of course, this one is also impossible, but possibly less so...


No more volunteer gov. Take a poll for the most qualified, and draft them.
 
2012-10-27 12:07:24 AM

RedVentrue: Honest Bender: RedVentrue: Next time he will get to debate. Remember 1992 debate with Perot.

No. I was 8.

My first election had 3 candidates for POTUS Bill Clinton, George Bush the 1st, and Ross Perot. At one point Perot had near 60% of the vote, then someone treatened to kill his family, so he backed out of the race. That's American politics for you.


Notsureifserious.jpg
 
2012-10-27 01:09:27 AM
All the bitter posts about how the system is so corrupt and every candidate is actually the same remind me of David Icke and the other Illuminati conspiracy nuts.
 
2012-10-27 02:10:59 AM
whidbey
Obama isn't trying to get rid of unions.

Could've farking fooled me.


Silverstaff
Because we don't have single payer RIGHT NOW it's not good enough

It's not good enough, that's true. Thousands of people are dying for no good reason. Is there an amount of time or body count we need to wait for until it suddenly becomes a problem?

The Democrats in particular are not good enough, because they refuse to even make the slightest effort to advocate, much less implement, programs which would actually solve these problems. They don't fight for them, they don't even say they're in favor of them... what the fark makes any of you think they actually want them? What the fark makes any of you think you can actually push out the entrenched Blue Dogs and Good-Old-Boys networks and make the Democratic Party genuinely progressive? For the amount of organization it would take, you might as well just act in the farking real work, and actually make a farking difference.

When I was young and naive, I thought like he did, that it was all the same, that there was no difference between Republicans and Democrats, that it was all a shell game. It's false sophistry, it's that sort of fake wisdom you get when you're in college and think you know so much you've started to see it all.

I was a Democrat. I worked for the local bastards. They sold us out at every opportunity. They only care about themselves and patronage.

For fark's sake, under Mike Tate's 'leadership' of the DPW, Wisconsin has moved from solidly blue to solidly red, and this guy STILL hasn't resigned or been removed! Holy farking shiat, what does someone have to do to get fired around here?

Maybe at one point both parties were so similiar that there was some truth to that, at least a kernel of truth, but nowadays the right has gone far-right, and the only way to put the breaks on that national rightward slide is for the center and left to stand together and pull. . .the levers on ballot boxes.

The phrase "fetish object" springs to mind...


whidbey
You can go do your little dance in Hell, now.

I remember my Aunt saying under her breath a few years ago that she thought Obama is just the devil...

Actually, not voting is all is a vote for the greater evil.

To vote is to give consent. What advice do you give to people who refuse to participate in any evil? "Get a job"?


MurphyMurphy
Maybe one vote doesn't do shiat, but you sure as hell aren't going to change anything lying down.

For aforementioned reasons: fark you, fark you, fark you. This is bullshiat. THERE ARE MORE OPTIONS THAN "VOTE" AND "DO NOTHING"!


MO_humanist

The tea party seems to think it does. 2010 was a big change from 2008. An organized left could do the same to the makup of the democratic party.

The Democrats had their chance, around 2004-6. We gave them Congress on the belief they would end the farking war. They refused. We've seen where their true loyalties sit. When they tried to turn Occupy into their version of the Tea Party, we spat in their face; so they sent in the dogs. That's just how it's going to be from now on. If your strategy rests on us kissing and making up, get a new strategy.
 
2012-10-27 02:17:05 AM
Still haven't seen anyone explain why voting matters when gerrymandering and the electoral college make presidential, Congressional, and state elections pointless. And I haven't heard anyone give a solution to unopposed incumbents, either.

So, I should stop being lazy and either make enough money to make a career in politics possible, or move somewhere not gerrymandered and that's a swing state. Thanks a lot for the self-righteous comments and the lack of constructive political discussion and advice directed at those of us in stupid districts. I hope you get your dopamine hit on election day while the rest of angrily grit our teeth at a political system that offers only marginal representation on par with the Dish and Dishonesty episode of Blackadder.
 
2012-10-27 02:28:01 AM

RanDomino: For aforementioned reasons: fark you, fark you, fark you. This is bullshiat. THERE ARE MORE OPTIONS THAN "VOTE" AND "DO NOTHING"!


Yeah, like posting on the internet. Right?

RanDomino: To vote is to give consent. What advice do you give to people who refuse to participate in any evil? "Get a job"?


I'd say: go find some place to build your evil-free utopia.

The rest of us live in reality and are trying to participate in this thing called society.

What is your plan? (...besides the whole whining and crying about your alleged disillusion and disappointment)
 
2012-10-27 02:43:54 AM

milkyshirt: All the bitter posts about how the system is so corrupt and every candidate is actually the same remind me of David Icke and the other Illuminati conspiracy nuts.


It's necessary to have justifications for dismissing troubling viewpoints.

Some people just cant handle the red pill.
 
2012-10-27 03:14:55 AM

Frederick: milkyshirt: All the bitter posts about how the system is so corrupt and every candidate is actually the same remind me of David Icke and the other Illuminati conspiracy nuts.

It's necessary to have justifications for dismissing troubling viewpoints.

Some people just cant handle the red pill.


That's an interesting coincidence, because I remember clicking on a link to David Icke's website years ago (I doubt he still has the same exact thing up) and you had the option of clicking on a red pill or a blue pill. Funny stuff.
 
2012-10-27 03:25:49 AM
Not voting should be punishable by some kind of higher taxes or something.

Mandatory community service.
 
2012-10-27 06:27:16 AM

whidbey: Not voting should be punishable by some kind of higher taxes or something.

Mandatory community service.


Fighting swarms of bugs on their home world using only small arms.
 
2012-10-27 09:21:31 AM
profile.ak.fbcdn.net

Write in vote.
 
2012-10-27 10:22:47 AM

Tom_Slick: I really don't get people who don't vote, sure in some states (mine for example) Romney is all but guaranteed a win, but there are several very important local races and issues. These local races and issues have a much greater bearing on my quality of life than whoever is in the White House.


Fun fact. The koch brothers are POURING money into local races to take over state governments faster than you can say "voter ID law"
 
2012-10-27 02:34:33 PM
MurphyMurphy
Yeah, like posting on the internet. Right?

You could:
Start/join a community radio channel and/or newsletter, to route around the corporate media

Start/join a grassroots and solidarity-based union branch like the IWW rather than 'business unions' that suck power out of the hands of the workers

Start/join a worker-owned/managed cooperative business

Support political prisoners

Support (or join!) people engaging in direct action to stop environmental destruction, such as the Keystone XL blockade in Texas or attempts to interfere with MTR coal mining in Appalachia

Take over a state capitol building

Grow as much of your own food as possible, learn how to cook and preserve it, and spread these skills to your community (maybe on a Freeschool model). Learn other skills that you would ordinarily have to pay someone for to reduce your reliance on a job or government program whose existence you cannot control.

Start/join a Copwatch patrol to document police brutality


whidbey
Not voting should be punishable by some kind of higher taxes or something.

That's cool. Double 'em. Two times zero is still zero.

Mandatory community service.

Tell me again how your team is so different from the fascists?
 
2012-10-27 04:08:51 PM

RanDomino: whidbey
Not voting should be punishable by some kind of higher taxes or something.

That's cool. Double 'em. Two times zero is still zero.

Mandatory community service.

Tell me again how your team is so different from the fascists?


LOL "my team." "Fascists."

You know, this comment really sums you up, dude. I'm guessing it probably went right over your head:

MurphyMurphy: I'd say: go find some place to build your evil-free utopia.

The rest of us live in reality and are trying to participate in this thing called society.

 
2012-10-27 04:28:08 PM

RanDomino: Take over a state capitol building


Everything you listed would be ineffective, some comically so (the pirate radio station and small-press newsletter I got a laugh out of), but this one would be suicidal.

I've worked police security details for a state capitol building. You do realize that they are patrolled by a number of men with badges and guns (and tasers, and pepper spray, and batons), who are allowed to use those things? Not just uniformed officers, but plainclothes ones too. People who train constantly for domestic terrorism incidents and are ready and waiting to deal with somebody who makes trouble on their beat?

You do realize that trying to "take over" a building that has a state Governor, state legislators and the state Supreme Court in it would get you on the business end of a sidearm real quick, while a SWAT team with even bigger weapons was called?

Hell, trying to "take over" a state capital building as some extreme leftist political move (by somebody who apparently espouses outright Communist viewpoints, judging by your support of the known Communist front group the IWW) would pretty much be auditioning for a Darwin Award. . .and getting some stiff political backlash probably from the media, and imagine the talking heads on FOX News getting wind of it and the breathless propaganda about how communists are trying to forcibly seize power.

I get it you're progressive, you want to make a difference, you want to help. . .but in the words of Jon Stewart:

i.imgur.com

Seriously, work within the system, drop the revolutionary angst, and play the game and you can get ahead. Keep bucking the system and you'll get nowhere, and if you keep going like you're talking you'll wind up in jail, or worse.
 
2012-10-27 07:42:57 PM
t1.gstatic.com

or having your soul energy drained
 
2012-10-28 12:35:33 AM

GanjSmokr: Permanent mail in voter here. Voted from my easy chair with a beer at my side.

Swing state, voted for Gary Johnson.

Flame away.


No flaming. I don't think much of your choice, but the fact that you voted makes me respect you 1000 times more then the faux-cynical psuedo-rebels who don't vote on purpose or the mewling proto-humans who are too lazy to figure out how.
 
2012-10-28 02:56:42 PM
Silverstaff
Everything you listed would be ineffective, some comically so (the pirate radio station and small-press newsletter I got a laugh out of), but this one would be suicidal.

We did it for three weeks last year. Two weeks later, 10,000 people did it again despite it being on lockdown and defended. I know, I know, the bastards have done a great job of making sure it went down the Memory Hole...
 
2012-10-28 10:55:37 PM

RanDomino: Silverstaff
Everything you listed would be ineffective, some comically so (the pirate radio station and small-press newsletter I got a laugh out of), but this one would be suicidal.

We did it for three weeks last year. Two weeks later, 10,000 people did it again despite it being on lockdown and defended. I know, I know, the bastards have done a great job of making sure it went down the Memory Hole...


You took over a state capital building for three weeks last year?

You mean you did an Occupy-style sit in? You found a spot on the floor and squatted there with some protest signs? Three weeks, 24/7, and weren't arrested for trespassing or run off? I'm skeptical, to say the least. Also, a protest sit-in is not a "take over". Taking over a building implies going in with weapons, seizing control, holding the area, being able to deny access to others.

Also, you are claiming that 10,000 people stormed a state capital building that was on "lockdown and defended", as in broke in to a government building being actively defended. . .but somehow magically all reports of this were erased by the Big Bad Government and their hapless shills in The Media? No picture of 10,000 people storming a state capital Bastille-style were posted to Tumblr or Twitter or Facebook? 10,000 people storming a government building, and no FOX News report of thousands of anti-government communist militants trying to overthrow the government? No reports of mass arrests? No triumphant news releases by the leaders of the. . .oh wait, Occupy didn't have leaders, so nobody to speak up when anything is successful.

Color me extremely skeptical. Fark that, that's Citation Needed, as in an actual media cite and not somebodies blog.

Oh wait, you can't cite anything, you said it's all down the Memory Hole. With all the media coverage of OWS that was happening, all the occupy protests going on, the people posting images to Twitter and FB, 10,000 people stormed a Capital building and somehow there is no verifiable record of it?

Then again, it's easier to play being the oppressed hero when you can claim all records of your great triumphs against The Man were wiped out by The Conspiracy.

Really, you know, I sympathize with your cause, but as I said, this whole "don't vote" thing is childishly naive. It's false sophistication. You'll wake up one day and realize you could have made a difference if you didn't spend all your time running a pirate radio station, flushing your vote away on third-party candidates with 0% chance of ever winning, and
 
2012-10-29 10:42:22 AM
Silverstaff
Color me extremely skeptical. Fark that, that's Citation Needed, as in an actual media cite and not somebodies blog.

Are you farking kidding me? You don't remember this?

www.themattrix.com
 
2012-10-29 12:29:23 PM

RanDomino: Silverstaff
Color me extremely skeptical. Fark that, that's Citation Needed, as in an actual media cite and not somebodies blog.

Are you farking kidding me? You don't remember this?

[www.themattrix.com image 497x331]


No, I had never heard of it. Though, doing some research, I assume you're talking about the Washington State Capital building now, in a protest on November 28, 2011.

Hmm, Seattle Times refers to it as several hundred protesters trying to interfere with the opening of the state legislature, which the state police tolerated during the day when it was mostly peaceful, but arrested and tased a few people who actually tried to interfere with the legislature, then everybody was thrown out when the place closed for the night, and most people left (and staged a protest outside the building), except for a few who tried to stay and got arrested for trespassing.
Link

A local TV station had coverage, Link They reported that there was a protest in the capital during business hours, and when some protesters refused to leave at the end of the day, there were arrests and tazings.

I'd hardly call that taking over a building. You staged a protest. Some people tried, and failed, to remain in their after business hours and to interfere with the workings of government. You honestly think that had more of an impact

Also, Seattle Times reports the number of protesters in the hundreds. Occupy Olympias own website listed the total number of protesters at around 3,000 Link . Both are way short of your claimed 10,000 people, and the act overall was way short of a "take over" of a building that was on "lockdown and defended". The Occupy Olympia website says the protest was specifically over some taxation and public finance related issues, including opposing an increase in the state sales tax.

Okay, you staged a protest at a state capital, over some specific taxation issues. Fair enough. However, if you think voting makes no difference, if the candidates are the same on both parties and you can't influence things at the ballot box, why do you think that staging protests will have any difference either? You don't think that one of your Occupy group should run for state legislature? Take up donations and raise funds, actually get elected to office. Go ahead and run as an independent. If thousands of people put their efforts together and money together at a state level, they could certainly do a lot to get people actually sitting in that legislature that represented their ideals.

You'll find it's far more effective to work with the system than to try to oppose it at every step and reject it entirely.
 
2012-10-29 01:06:27 PM
Silverstaff
No, I had never heard of it. Though, doing some research, I assume you're talking about the Washington State Capital building now, in a protest on November 28, 2011.

It's Wisconsin! Holy farking shiat! Is this how bad things are, that people don't even remember that??
 
2012-10-29 11:32:21 PM

Silverstaff: No, I had never heard of it. Though, doing some research, I assume you're talking about the Washington State Capital building


Jesus H. Rodriquez, sir. RanDomino is a bubble-headed loon but isn't dumb and means well.

You, however, teeter on the brink between a) "complete f*cking ignoramus" and b) "troll".
No other choices are in play.

Your profile claims you are "well-educated", with degrees in political science and history, which argues in favor of "troll" because Holy goddam Christ, the 2011 Wisconsin protests were pivotal national news for months just last year, crucial to shaping American history and politics of which nobody the least conversant in American politics could credibly ignorance.

On the other hand, your profile also claims you are (like Drew Curtis) from Kentucky, home of Mitch McConnell and Rand Paul (and Jim Bunning before him), which argues strongly in favor of "complete f*cking ignoramus".

Tough call, I really want to think the very best of you.
 
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