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(SeattlePI)   With his retirement fast approaching, David Stern can't resist giving one final "fark you" to the city of Seattle   (blog.seattlepi.com) divider line 130
    More: Obvious, Seattle, Adam Silver, Memphis Grizzlies, deputy commissioner, Seattle SuperSonics, Safeco Field, expansion team, Clay Bennett  
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3673 clicks; posted to Sports » on 26 Oct 2012 at 9:40 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-26 03:28:24 PM  

LL316: All of the sympathy I had for Sonics fans would get tossed out the window if they readily embrassed another fan base's hijacked team. The King's, which is the team I've read about most being relocated, have a very passionate fan base just so long as the team doesn't suck (which holds true with every fan base). Don't be hypocrites, Seattle.


All depends on the definition of "hijacked." Sometimes, occasionally, teams need to move. They get no support from the local fans even when they win, and are constantly in rebuilding mode as a result. The Montreal Expos, for example. In that case, I wouldn't feel bad about moving a team. Sure, there are a small number of mouth-breathing tards who believe Clay Bennett's line that Seattle didn't/couldn't support the team, but everyone who pays attention knows that it's beyond stupid.

So, yes, if Seattle truly "hijacked" a team like Bennett, I would consider it hypocritical if I "embrassed" (sic.) such team. But that doesn't necessarily apply to any team relocation.
 
2012-10-26 03:44:14 PM  

gtfan92: Mitch Taylor's Bro: The pre-Miami Heat LBJ would've passed

In LeBron's last season in Cleveland, no player in the league took as many shots as he did in the final two minutes of the game. It's not even close, really.

But please, continue to meme away.


Reputations aren't earned or shed overnight. Maybe in his last season, he was starting to "get" it? I dunno. I really don't care about him as a player other than to marvel at his athletic ability. I guess I was a borderline hater, though, since I really didn't relish the thought of player collusion leading directly to a championship. But now that it's done, it's done. He's a champion and he earned it.
 
2012-10-26 04:11:27 PM  

Mitch Taylor's Bro: Holy shiat, factual, relevant, not funny... someone hacked your account?


Oh, I make serious, important posts in the sports and video game threads, i.e. "the important threads". I apologize if this caught you off guard.

Slu: The other stupid NBA criticism is "no defense". Whenever I hear anyone say that, I immediately stop listening because they obviously know nothing about basketball.


I've mentioned this in a couple of football threads, but it's funny how the NBA has a reputation for coddling its marketable star players and designing a rule set where it is very difficult (compared to other levels and leagues) to play a physical defensive style. But when the NFL does the same thing by changing the rules so marketable pocket-passing quarterbacks and high-powered offensive passing games tear up the NFL record books, nobody speaks a word. It's all horseshiat.

Slu: The fact is that the NBA is doing great. Right now there are some amazing players doing amazing things and the game is as entertaining as ever. If one doesn't like the sport fine, but saying it used to be better makes one look like an old man yelling at clouds. And I started watching basketball in the mid-80s, so I remember the Jordan/Bird/Magic era well.


The National Basketball Association is probably the most talented and exclusive sports league on the entire planet. As far as I know, the only other warm-weather sports organization or organizations (i.e. "sport whose growth isn't limited by climate factors") that draw from a global talent pool are the European soccer leagues, and the National Basketball Association is limited to roughly 500 players in a world where the best players believe winning an NBA championship is the ultimate goal of any level of play that doesn't involve a national team. And right now, the NBA is as good as it's ever been, period. The international talent pool finally filled the roster slots made available by the rapid expansion of the league during the late eighties into the mid-nineties, and it's awesome. Most people in the United States do not realize how good the level of play is because they 1) still think the hero-ball trash of the early 00's still exemplifies professional basketball, 2) confuse "I LUV MY ALMA MATER" with "college basketball is watchable and entertaining", and 3) FOOTBALL LOLLLLLLL. Most of the complaints about the league can be easily rebutted (lack of defense, too predictable, stars try to win the game on their own), and while there are obviously valid issues with the sport (too many games per season, refereeing issues), the public negative perception of the NBA hardly reflects what the league actually is now.
 
2012-10-26 04:44:35 PM  
Also: Looks like he didn't give blessing to Stan Van Gundy being on ESPN's NBA telecasts.

And that's not exactly going over well with Jeff (hint, hint TNT).
 
2012-10-26 04:45:48 PM  

ddam: Left my n***** house paid
Picked up a girl been tryin to fark since the twelfth grade
It's ironic, I had the blunt she had the chronic
The Lakers beat the Supersonics


Timeless Ice Cube


YAY, YEAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY~!
 
2012-10-26 04:47:06 PM  

Gunny Highway: The Knicks? shiat ownership so they won't win.


Jim Dolan makes Donald Sterling look like Dr. Jerry Buss. 'nuff said.
 
2012-10-26 05:03:51 PM  

ddam: Left my n***** house paid
Picked up a girl been tryin to fark since the twelfth grade
It's ironic, I had the blunt she had the chronic
The Lakers beat the Supersonics


Timeless Ice Cube


And the inspiration for my Fark handle.
 
2012-10-26 05:15:39 PM  
Seattle resident.

The whole Sonic debacle ensured I will never again support the NBA.

I will never support any NBA team in Seattle. As others have already pointed out - how can Seattle NBA fans possibly support taking a team from a different city after what the NBA did to Seattle.

Stern can and should DIAF.

Stern moved a long established team from a city that supported it for 40 years in the 13th largest media market to the 49th largest media market. That's some fine business acumen there Lou.

I love hockey but if the NHL moves a team from a different city I will not support it. I can not and will not support leagues moving teams. If a team is not successful fold it. If another city wants a team the answer is expansion not relocating.
 
2012-10-26 05:46:56 PM  
Stern moved a long established team from a city that supported it for 40 years in the 13th largest media market to the 49th largest media market. That's some fine business acumen there Lou.

Yes, it has obviously worked out quite poorly.
 
2012-10-26 05:57:05 PM  

Yanks_RSJ: mr_a: "I don't have any current view on where such a team comes from," Stern said at a news conference Thursday,

Here is a helpful list

Nice to see Seattle has no problem choosing a new team arbitrarily from a list. But BOOOOOOOO OKC! You team-stealing hicks!!


They can have the Bobcats, and maybe six people not named Michael Jordan would care.
 
2012-10-26 06:06:17 PM  
Pro Basketball sucks, unless we're talking about those UK Wildcats, YOUR National Champs! Repeat, baby!!
 
2012-10-26 06:09:12 PM  

UNC_Samurai: Yanks_RSJ: mr_a: "I don't have any current view on where such a team comes from," Stern said at a news conference Thursday,

Here is a helpful list

Nice to see Seattle has no problem choosing a new team arbitrarily from a list. But BOOOOOOOO OKC! You team-stealing hicks!!

They can have the Bobcats, and maybe six people not named Michael Jordan would care.


I wouldn't be cool with having what happened here happen to another city, but there are some teams out there aching to be moved. I don't want Hansen just going out and buying the first team for sale and ripping it out of the city like Bennett did, though.
 
2012-10-26 06:09:55 PM  

Friction8r: Pro Basketball sucks, unless we're talking about those UK Wildcats, YOUR National Champs! Repeat, baby!!


Well, at least you admit it.
 
Slu
2012-10-26 06:42:47 PM  

Friction8r: Pro Basketball sucks, unless we're talking about those UK Wildcats, YOUR National Champs! Repeat, baby!!


Sigh.
 
2012-10-26 06:46:41 PM  

Mike_LowELL: rather than actually enjoying the sport itself.


If your argument is about "the sport," then these people probably don't talk much about the NBA or care about the BS politics of the league, because there's so much more basketball in the world.

Hell, they probably care more about the way NBA officials allow players to bend the rules with such ease, particularly star players.
 
2012-10-26 06:51:38 PM  

Slu: Friction8r: Pro Basketball sucks, unless we're talking about those UK Wildcats, YOUR National Champs! Repeat, baby!!

Sigh.


We are moving backwards aren't we?
 
2012-10-26 07:02:19 PM  
This is how rigged the NBA is:

I have more faith that the Seattle Mariners will win a World Series than any team west of Texas/Oklahoma, outside of the Lakers, in the next decade. Even the Clippers, who are drastically improving compared to a decade ago, probably won't come that close.

Sacramento and Portland had good chances to compete a decade ago, and in both cases, the refs shiat on them (though the screwjob against the Kings is more memorable). The Thunder were, of course, the Sonics, who had the key cog to OKC's success before relocation (but he had no time to try to turn things around).

It's interesting, this league ignores that parity is a large reason why the NFL is doing so well. It seems that they look at "scientific studies" that claim that the league is more watchable when big-name franchises succeed, all the while ignoring WHY that is the case (that the media spends more of their time talking about these specific teams, creating a self-perpetuating cycle... see: Beavis & Butthead's comments about famous people on TV). Sure, teams like Pittsburgh are always in the conversation in the NFL, but now long-time struggling franchises are capable of having great seasons, and even becoming powerhouses; the league wants big-name, memorable teams, but they also want to grow the brand as a whole. The NFL used to be more like the NBA, where many teams just stay at the bottom (of course, a single incredible pick in the NBA draft can make a huge difference, but those guys are clearly rare), but that's changing. The Bills, for example, have been down and out, but they're improving. Just 15 years ago, they were playing in Super Bowls every year.
 
2012-10-26 07:11:27 PM  

Friction8r: Pro Basketball sucks, unless we're talking about those UK Wildcats, YOUR National Champs! Repeat, baby!!


The Sacramento Kings would beat the Kentucky Wildcats by forty points. Therefore, I give no farks. And no, this is not theory, because the best college basketball teams have roughly a half-dozen future NBA players (players who have not fully grown into their bodies and developed their skill set), whereas NBA teams have fifteen NBA players, most of whom are at their peak of performance. Enjoy your minor league ball. The quality is roughly on-par with your performance in this thread.

puffy999: If your argument is about "the sport," then these people probably don't talk much about the NBA or care about the BS politics of the league, because there's so much more basketball in the world.


Understanding the business of sports/media/entertainment is one of the easiest ways to understand how it functions and provides you the product/peformance you see on the floor/stage/whatever. And for me personally, I'd probably watch more European basketball if it had a regular cable presence on any of the sports networks. Outside of this, I don't waste my time watching anything less than an international basketball tournament because the level of play doesn't merit it.

puffy999: Hell, they probably care more about the way NBA officials allow players to bend the rules with such ease, particularly star players.


I'll repeat what I wrote earlier in the thread:

NBA tailors its rule set to protect marketable star players and enhance the amount of offense in the game by reducing the amount of physical contact, leading to an increase in scoring = "No one plays defense in the NBA and David Stern protects LeBron."
NFL bends its rule set to protect marketable pocket-passing quarterbacks and enhance the amount of offense in the game by reducing the amount of physical contact at the receiver/quarterback positions, leading to an increase in scoring = ?????

You fill in the blank.
 
2012-10-26 07:14:09 PM  

puffy999: This is how rigged the NBA is:

I have more faith that the Seattle Mariners will win a World Series than any team west of Texas/Oklahoma, outside of the Lakers, in the next decade. Even the Clippers, who are drastically improving compared to a decade ago, probably won't come that close.

Sacramento and Portland had good chances to compete a decade ago, and in both cases, the refs shiat on them (though the screwjob against the Kings is more memorable). The Thunder were, of course, the Sonics, who had the key cog to OKC's success before relocation (but he had no time to try to turn things around).

It's interesting, this league ignores that parity is a large reason why the NFL is doing so well. It seems that they look at "scientific studies" that claim that the league is more watchable when big-name franchises succeed, all the while ignoring WHY that is the case (that the media spends more of their time talking about these specific teams, creating a self-perpetuating cycle... see: Beavis & Butthead's comments about famous people on TV). Sure, teams like Pittsburgh are always in the conversation in the NFL, but now long-time struggling franchises are capable of having great seasons, and even becoming powerhouses; the league wants big-name, memorable teams, but they also want to grow the brand as a whole. The NFL used to be more like the NBA, where many teams just stay at the bottom (of course, a single incredible pick in the NBA draft can make a huge difference, but those guys are clearly rare), but that's changing. The Bills, for example, have been down and out, but they're improving. Just 15 years ago, they were playing in Super Bowls every year.


They had Durrant but the rest were selected by a GM hired by Bennett. There is no guarantee this Thunder team would have been in Seattle.

The NBA isn't perfect but it is the best basketball in the world.
 
2012-10-26 07:39:09 PM  

Gosling: My local team is the Bucks. The Bucks' chief legacy to the NBA is being the place Kareem Abdul-Jabbar farked over when he said he'd only play in New York or Los Angeles and having a bearable-to-watch team maybe one season a decade. And also being the place that was so stupid in its Glenn Robinson contract that they had to make a rule to keep GM's from being that stupid in the future.

I'm pretty sure if the Bucks announced plans to relocate, the resulting Save The Bucks rally might draw, like, 30 people. We'd rather have hockey.


THIS.

As much as I love my Bucks, and as much as they give me false hope before every season.....I'd rather have an NHL team in their place, without a doubt
 
2012-10-26 07:54:08 PM  

Mike_LowELL:
I'll repeat what I wrote earlier in the thread:

NBA tailors its rule set to protect marketable star players and enhance the amount of offense in the game by reducing the amount of physical contact, leading to an increase in scoring = "No one plays defense in the NBA and David Stern protects LeBron."
NFL bends its rule set to protect marketable pocket-passing quarterbacks and enhance the amount of offense in the game by reducing the amount of physical contact at the receiver/quarterback positions, leading to an increase in scoring = ?????


Just because no one is pointing out that the NFL is doing some shiatty shiat doesn't mean we should ignore that the NBA is doing shiatty shiat.
 
2012-10-26 08:16:50 PM  

Foxxinnia: Just because no one is pointing out that the NFL is doing some shiatty shiat doesn't mean we should ignore that the NBA is doing shiatty shiat.


Basketball isn't the sport that is running away with the national popularity contest.
 
2012-10-26 09:57:11 PM  

seumasokelly: UNC_Samurai: Yanks_RSJ: mr_a: "I don't have any current view on where such a team comes from," Stern said at a news conference Thursday,

Here is a helpful list

Nice to see Seattle has no problem choosing a new team arbitrarily from a list. But BOOOOOOOO OKC! You team-stealing hicks!!

They can have the Bobcats, and maybe six people not named Michael Jordan would care.

I wouldn't be cool with having what happened here happen to another city, but there are some teams out there aching to be moved. I don't want Hansen just going out and buying the first team for sale and ripping it out of the city like Bennett did, though.


Fark that. The entire damn state will help them pack.
 
2012-10-26 10:16:04 PM  

Mike_LowELL: Oh, and for those of you complaining that the NBA doesn't have enough parity, the period from 1977-1979 (the period leading directly out of the ABA merger) was the epitome of parity in the sport. In 1977, only one of the 22 teams lost fewer than thirty games and the Lakers got the top seed with 53 wins. In 1978, the 44-win Washington Bullets won the title. In 1979, 11 of the 12 teams that made the playoffs were separated by nine games.


It was probably a bit of a fluke, but don't forget that in 1976 the Suns made the Finals with a blistering 42-40 record...and even that was good enough for 3rd seed in the West.
 
2012-10-26 10:54:44 PM  

Mike_LowELL: Foxxinnia: Just because no one is pointing out that the NFL is doing some shiatty shiat doesn't mean we should ignore that the NBA is doing shiatty shiat.

Basketball isn't the sport that is running away with the national popularity contest.


Oh sorry, I forgot that only popular things should be criticized.
 
2012-10-26 11:28:57 PM  

schief2: It was probably a bit of a fluke, but don't forget that in 1976 the Suns made the Finals with a blistering 42-40 record...and even that was good enough for 3rd seed in the West.


I didn't mention it because that was the last year of the ABA, and you could make the case that the quality of play in the NBA had been severely hurt by it. There was more mediocrity than parity.

Foxxinnia: Oh sorry, I forgot that only popular things should be criticized.


No, you're just being stupid. Let's try this again: Both the National Football League and the National Basketball Association have tweaked their rule sets to limit physical contact. One league has been mercilessly criticized for it, leading to an ill-informed perception that its players "do not play defense". The other league has profited tremendously from those rule changes, and has been characterized as a "Golden Age of Quarterbacks". Should the level of scoring in the NFL continue on its current rate, the league will easily set a modern record for scoring (and probably a league record, since when I looked this up a while back, I only checked back to 1970), with a league average for scoring nearly a full point per game higher than last season.

When I point out the blatant hypocrisy of this, that does not mean "Oh, you're just trying to downplay the problems with the league." It means that the average American sports fan is dumb as bricks and only hears the narrative coming through their own personal echo chamber, whether it's coming through the sports journalism megaphone or other ill-informed idiots in both their personal circle. And unlike the NFL, the reduction of physical play in the NBA was actually offset by rule changes designed to benefit defenses, most namely the elimination of illegal defense in favor of limited types of zone defenses. And because of it, LeBron James never got the same luxury that Michael Jordan did, where Jordan never had to face a single double team off the ball. So as a result, defenses have become much more complex, even if players can't be nearly as physical as they used to be. So if you want to claim any league has players that "don't play defense", it's the NFL, the league where all its offensive records are currently in the process of being destroyed, and a league which looks more and more like the Canadian Football League every day. But then again, you have a country of mouthbreathers who think football is a combat sport, and "YEA WHY DON'T U TEL RAY LOUIS THAT HE DOES'NT PLAY DEFENSE LOLL", and stop being fat, god damn.
 
2012-10-27 02:24:23 AM  

Mike_LowELL: No, you're just being stupid.


Yeah, I was just messing with you on that on. I agree with you though. I like defense in sports, probably because I'm a weirdo, and seeing it get gutted in sports is sort of depressing. But the audience loves lots of points and lots of yards and the antique vision of a glorious leader guiding his team to victory, and leagues acknowledge that and makes that vision easier to fulfill. There's no glory in defense and there's no leader. The defense of football team is about as well acknowledged as a squad of mooks from a 007 film. The average football viewer could maybe rattle off four defensive players' names in the entire league while knowing the names of second-string QBs. I admit I don't know much about basketball, but I'm guessing it's the same. Are any of the NBA stars known because they steal the ball and block shots amazingly well?
 
2012-10-27 03:10:16 AM  

Foxxinnia: Yeah, I was just messing with you on that on.


Fair enough.

Foxxinnia: I agree with you though. I like defense in sports, probably because I'm a weirdo, and seeing it get gutted in sports is sort of depressing. But the audience loves lots of points and lots of yards and the antique vision of a glorious leader guiding his team to victory, and leagues acknowledge that and makes that vision easier to fulfill. There's no glory in defense and there's no leader. The defense of football team is about as well acknowledged as a squad of mooks from a 007 film. The average football viewer could maybe rattle off four defensive players' names in the entire league while knowing the names of second-string QBs.


Step 1: Sell professional football to the public under the narrative that every player on a team has to be able to contribute in order to win.
Step 2: Sell a narrative that defense wins championships.
Step 3: If you're not a quarterback or a runningback, you do not win Most Valuable Player ever.
Step 4: Yeah, it's stupid.

Foxxinnia: I admit I don't know much about basketball, but I'm guessing it's the same. Are any of the NBA stars known because they steal the ball and block shots amazingly well?


Only if they're a center like Dwight Howard or Tyson Chandler. Which is actually kind of weird, because seven out of the first nine players to win Defensive Player of the Year (first issued in '82-'83) were either guards or forwards. Since then, 15 out of 16 have been centers. Usually, when it comes to the casual fans, players don't get respect for their defensive accolades unless they're very good offensive players. However, it usually becomes obnoxious, because players like Kobe Bryant (who are hardly all-world on the defensive end) will continue to get All-NBA Defensive Placement.
 
2012-10-27 04:15:45 AM  
fark stern...for not suspending Artest for 7 godzillion games for the Harden elbow.
 
2012-10-27 10:01:11 AM  

Mike_LowELL: No, you're just being stupid. Let's try this again: Both the National Football League and the National Basketball Association have tweaked their rule sets to limit physical contact. One league has been mercilessly criticized for it, leading to an ill-informed perception that its players "do not play defense". The other league has profited tremendously from those rule changes, and has been characterized as a "Golden Age of Quarterbacks". Should the level of scoring in the NFL continue on its current rate, the league will easily set a modern record for scoring (and probably a league record, since when I looked this up a while back, I only checked back to 1970), with a league average for scoring nearly a full point per game higher than last season..


I'm not quite sure what you're going on about in terms of media coverage and popular descriptions of what's happening in the NFL. I've read article after article after article about how various rule changes have handcuffed NFL defenses and favored the passing game, and nothing that I can think of saying "gee, today's quarterbacks sure are spiffy, as you can see by an apples-to-apples comparison of their stats to 1960s stats." Maybe we just read different stuff.
 
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