Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Daily Mail)   Immigrant British member of Parliament says immigrants know more about Britain than the British, also have posher accents, better teeth, tastier cuisine   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 37
    More: Obvious, British, Britain, new immigrants, Rio Ferdinand, English Civil War, Magna Carta, Home Secretary, Asperger  
•       •       •

3045 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Oct 2012 at 4:28 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



37 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2012-10-26 04:40:07 AM  
The fact is you generally have to jump through a lot of hoops to migrate to another country unless there's some treaty guaranteeing freedom of movement between your home country and your destination. There's usually some kind of points system or you have to be in a high demand occupation to be successful. Failing that, you have to invest a lot of money in your destination. Cracked had a good article about this. In fact, if it means a few extra points to get in, reading a few history books might be the easiest part of the process.
 
2012-10-26 04:55:40 AM  
But he added: 'Then I'll be canvassing in my area and there'll be people who have lived in the same home for three or four or five generations who know b***** all about our country, about our heritage.

I'd really quite like to meet a Tooting resident whose family have lived in the same home for five generations.

I mean, I'm third or forth generation sahf lahndan myself, but fifth, without ever moving house?

They must have almost no consonants left.
 
2012-10-26 05:01:18 AM  
"said that it 'frustrated' him to see newcomers obliged to sit citizenship tests when many people 'know b***** all' about British history."

There's an element of truth to it. But it's rooted in the same levels of ignorance that every country has, some people are just stupid, and there are a lot of them. However it's clearly not the case that every immigrant is better than every native Brit, therefore he should be fired for making me read the Daily Mail.

I'd say a general 'history and traditions' test when people immigrate, or turn 18. Doesn't matter where you're from, if you fail you do not get to vote, until you pass. Like a driver's license. If you do anything bad then you can lose the license. "Oh, you didn't go out last night to celebrate St. Crispin's Day and Agincourt? You didn't proclaim it, through your host, that he that hath no stomach for this fight, let him depart, his passport shall be made and crowns for convoy put into his purse, we would not die in that mans company that fears his fellowship to die with us? Well then you are not a true blooded Englishman, please turn in your license."

Gradually knowledge would increase, and in the meantime I would be the only voter, with a dachshund named Colin.
 
2012-10-26 05:03:08 AM  
I hope they are inundated by the irish

'cause
 
2012-10-26 05:03:08 AM  
 
2012-10-26 05:04:05 AM  

tjassen: Goodness Gracious Me!


You, with your Ministry of Sound"!
 
2012-10-26 05:09:33 AM  

Slaxl: "said that it 'frustrated' him to see newcomers obliged to sit citizenship tests when many people 'know b***** all' about British history."

There's an element of truth to it. But it's rooted in the same levels of ignorance that every country has, some people are just stupid, and there are a lot of them. However it's clearly not the case that every immigrant is better than every native Brit, therefore he should be fired for making me read the Daily Mail.

I'd say a general 'history and traditions' test when people immigrate, or turn 18. Doesn't matter where you're from, if you fail you do not get to vote, until you pass. Like a driver's license. If you do anything bad then you can lose the license. "Oh, you didn't go out last night to celebrate St. Crispin's Day and Agincourt? You didn't proclaim it, through your host, that he that hath no stomach for this fight, let him depart, his passport shall be made and crowns for convoy put into his purse, we would not die in that mans company that fears his fellowship to die with us? Well then you are not a true blooded Englishman, please turn in your license."

Gradually knowledge would increase, and in the meantime I would be the only voter, with a dachshund named Colin.


You see, the ancient Greeks wrote in legend of a terrible container in which all the evils of the world were trapped. How prophetic they were. All they got wrong was the name. They called it "Pandora's Box," when, of course, they meant "Slaxl's Trousers." We are told that, when the box was opened, the whole world turned to darkness because of Pandora's fatal curiousity. I charge you now, Slaxl: for the good of all mankind, never allow curiosity to lead you to open your trousers. Nothing of interest lies therein.
 
2012-10-26 05:10:24 AM  
This is hardly specific to Britain. I remember taking a citizenship for US government class in 9th grade... I, along with only one other person, passed. Considering we were studying the subject in question, I can't imagine the general public doing better on average.
 
2012-10-26 05:13:58 AM  
he should come to America and watch how people do competing against "Are You Smarter Than A Fifth Grader?"
 
2012-10-26 05:22:54 AM  
Posher or Poshier?
 
2012-10-26 05:44:55 AM  

You'd turn it off when I was halfway across: But he added: 'Then I'll be canvassing in my area and there'll be people who have lived in the same home for three or four or five generations who know b***** all about our country, about our heritage.

I'd really quite like to meet a Tooting resident whose family have lived in the same home for five generations.

I mean, I'm third or forth generation sahf lahndan myself, but fifth, without ever moving house?

They must have almost no consonants left.


I lived in Tooting for 10 years (before going back to New Zealand). I remember once walking down Garrett lane and these two bin-men were complaining about Tooting, one of them said "This place is a tip" and I bridled, nearly reminded him he's a bloody bin-man. Tootings not so bad. Go up and down the high street for one of the best Indian meals you can get, outside of Brick Lane. Thing is though, what they don't want London to become, is like parts of Birmingham where English is rarely spoken anymore, you have to show you want to live there.
 
2012-10-26 05:48:55 AM  
One of the things you will find as well is that British Schools teach a lot of world history, Rome, Egypt etc... rather than British History. The most British History I was taught was the Industrial Revolution, it was all Stocokton to Darlington and Spinning Jennies in my history classes. You had to do History at A level to get into the real depths of it all.
 
2012-10-26 05:56:19 AM  
They should just do Wipeout style competitions instead, much more straight forward and terrifying for new comers plus it'd keep the immigration office entertained coming up with more and more elaborate challenges. They could film it too...
 
2012-10-26 06:20:21 AM  
This is the case in just about any country, really. Simple fact is, schools either just don't teach a comprehensive lesson about a person's home or the person in question is a pants-on-head mouthbreather (or both).

Living in Korea was just like living in America in some ways. The Koreans had a very distorted and incorrect understanding of their history, and blathered on with a highly misplaced sense of pride that wasn't rooted in anything real or true (but it felt right to them!)
 
2012-10-26 07:00:28 AM  
Wouldn't it be wiser to devote energy to educating the populace rather than lowering the bar for new arrivals?
 
2012-10-26 07:27:00 AM  
The Daily Mail are outraged by the word bugger now :)

I think I got 50% on the 'Would you pass the test?' section. But that's not what being British is about, it's about binge drinking, and kicking shiat out of each other after the football :) Move with the times Daily Mail!
 
2012-10-26 07:34:54 AM  
So they should end immigration tests. It offends immigrants because of all that knowledge they have. Makes perfect sense.
 
2012-10-26 07:42:07 AM  
I got two out of five on the sample questions. Not bad for an American.
 
2012-10-26 07:48:22 AM  
The difference between young countries, like the USA, middle-aged countries, like the UK, and old countries, like China or Italy, are yawning gulfs.

Some things are just not worth knowing or relevant.
 
2012-10-26 07:56:55 AM  

starsrift: The difference between young countries, like the USA, middle-aged countries, like the UK, and old countries, like China or Italy, are yawning gulfs.

Some things are just not worth knowing or relevant.


Italy was formed in the early 19th century, it's younger than the USA. UK formed in 1707, so not that much older than the USA.

Everything is worth knowing, because otherwise you might say something wrong.
 
2012-10-26 08:02:42 AM  
Brit cuisine is best cuisine, innit?

Now I'm keen on having a kebab and some curry chips.
 
2012-10-26 08:18:55 AM  

wellreadneck: Wouldn't it be wiser to devote energy to educating the populace rather than lowering the bar for new arrivals?


I read the article as to that was what he was proposing.
 
2012-10-26 08:25:33 AM  
Labour justice spokesman Sadiq Khan said that it 'frustrated' him to see newcomers obliged to sit citizenship tests when many people 'know b***** all' about British history.
Then either you

A. Force citizens to take history classes (don't know how you would do that).

B. Not force peopel who wish to become citizens demonstrate any knowledge of the country.

I am fine with A, if he wants B I hope he is voted out.
 
2012-10-26 08:32:50 AM  

liam76: Labour justice spokesman Sadiq Khan said that it 'frustrated' him to see newcomers obliged to sit citizenship tests when many people 'know b***** all' about British history.
Then either you

A. Force citizens to take history classes (don't know how you would do that).

B. Not force peopel who wish to become citizens demonstrate any knowledge of the country.

I am fine with A, if he wants B I hope he is voted out.


Isn't history part of our national curriculum? So we already force people to learn about it. Perhaps what we should be doing is making schools better and executing children and parents of children, who fail tests. That'll motivate them!
 
2012-10-26 08:36:09 AM  

Slaxl: liam76: Labour justice spokesman Sadiq Khan said that it 'frustrated' him to see newcomers obliged to sit citizenship tests when many people 'know b***** all' about British history.
Then either you

A. Force citizens to take history classes (don't know how you would do that).

B. Not force peopel who wish to become citizens demonstrate any knowledge of the country.

I am fine with A, if he wants B I hope he is voted out.

Isn't history part of our national curriculum? So we already force people to learn about it. Perhaps what we should be doing is making schools better and executing children and parents of children, who fail tests. That'll motivate them!


In the US, yes. However it isn't one of the three "R's" and parents are allowed to homeschool.

I have no moral objection to requiring a civics test to vote, however I recognize the legal challenges it would face, and the potential problem given our disenfranchisement problems in the past, so Iwouldn't really ush for it, unless those could be addressed.
 
2012-10-26 08:40:28 AM  

Slaxl: Isn't history part of our national curriculum? So we already force people to learn about it. Perhaps what we should be doing is making schools better and executing children and parents of children, who fail tests. That'll motivate them!


I believe the point he made was that british citizens keep their nationality even if they are completely ignorant of their history, which most are. So, if british citizens aren't required to know about their history then why should every immigrant be required to know that?
 
2012-10-26 09:08:10 AM  
Switch out "British" for "Americans," and you can essentially have the same story.

One of my fellow managers at work HATES history (she's doing some sort of online degree through WSU) and knows dick-all about American history. It blows my mind, because history has always been one of my favorite subjects (regardless of the fact that I didn't pass the AP US History test in high school, but it was those goddamn theoretical situation essay questions) and it makes me sad that so many people just don't give a damn about their country's past.
 
2012-10-26 09:08:25 AM  
My take:

1. Immigrants actually made a willful choice to go to the countries they migrated to, so there's more of a motivation to learn about it. Native-born citizens are just sticking with the status quo.

2. Immigrants -- especially those from Third World nations -- are the ones who are either wealthy enough (relative to the general population of their home countries), resourceful enough, or ambitious enough to move out. So they are probably going to display above-average IQ. So there's somewhat of a self-selection effect here.

3. Given any large enough population, there are going to be particularly smart and particularly dumb members. I'm sure there are plenty of immigrants to the UK who don't know who Henry VIII is, and plenty of British-born citizens who are well-versed in the various details of English and British history.
 
2012-10-26 09:22:34 AM  
Can one discuss politics without knowledge of history?
 
2012-10-26 09:23:11 AM  
Some of the sample questions are ambiguous. How many were killed by the black death? Which outbreak? All of the outbreaks lumped together? Things that were the same disease but known by a different name at the time? Who was the first Prime Minister? Do you mean the first person who held the office that is now recognised as Prime Minister, or the first to officially be called Prime Minister on a document (what was First Lord of the Treasury), or the person who is noted in historical documents as acting as most trusted advisor to a monarch? Not always straightforward answers, and I would have difficulty in judging what answer they are expecting.

Some immigrants will have read up to pass the test, which most people would do. Most history taught in schools is more about specific events like the industrial revolution, the agrarian revolution etc., rather than a list of old politicians so for a lot of people they have never been taught that and have no interest in finding out. That said, I know immigrants who couldn't tell you who is the current Prime Minister or what countries make up the UK. I work with one guy who thought the queen gets elected.
 
xcv
2012-10-26 09:36:39 AM  
I don't know if history classes are essential for educated immigrants, but there should be definitely be tolerance screening and sensitivity training to prevent gay-bashing and the sort of cases where children are killed by the parents for dressing too Western or dating someone from a different culture.
 
2012-10-26 10:11:03 AM  
3 out of 5. I had no idea that recent estimates believe HALF the population died during the Black Death. Good Lord.
At least I've heard of Clement Atlee.

footshot: I think I got 50% on the 'Would you pass the test?' section.


50% on a 5 question test? Must be an American.
 
2012-10-26 10:59:39 AM  

Galloping Galoshes: 50% on a 5 question test? Must be an American.


No, no, not at all. But nice spot :)
 
2012-10-26 11:07:36 AM  
It's odd that countries force people to know things like the US Bill of Rights, when the same country's leaders willfully ignore or pervert the same.
 
2012-10-26 12:03:56 PM  

Porous Horace: Can one discuss politics without knowledge of history?


Have you been to the politics tab before?
 
2012-10-26 02:06:31 PM  
Face it. If any of us had to take a naturalization test for our own countries none of us would pass.
 
2012-10-26 02:57:56 PM  

stuffy: Face it. If any of us had to take a naturalization test for our own countries none of us would pass.


Bullshiat. You should have paid attention in school.
 
Displayed 37 of 37 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
Advertisement
On Twitter






In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report