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(GameSpy)   I don't always pirate games, but when I do, I make sure to share the patched version   (pc.gamespy.com) divider line 66
    More: Amusing, Sid Meier's Pirates!, PC gamers, full stops, deluge  
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7298 clicks; posted to Geek » on 26 Oct 2012 at 9:53 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-26 09:58:45 AM  
If people wanted to pirate my game, I'd be proud. I Told you people like me, mom!
 
2012-10-26 10:00:11 AM  
In the late 1990s I purchased a bootleg of Biohazard: The Director's Cut from an online seller. When the product did not arrive after several weeks, he informed me that he would send a replacement at his expense to keep me satisfied.

Fortunately, the product did arrive a few days later (and postmarks proved that he did mail it when he had claimed), so a replacement proved unnecessary, but I was impressed that a bootleg vendor was willing to provide better customer service than the original game manufacturer (Capcom's handling of the game was the reason that I purchased a bootleg of the Japanese version at all).
 
kab
2012-10-26 10:08:00 AM  
Now now, we've been assured in the past that folks only pirate material from big evil corporate entities, since the dev / musician / etc isn't actually getting his proper due anyhow.

That if prices were reasonable, folks would gladly pay for content.

Huh. I guess that was bullshiat after all. Shocked.
 
2012-10-26 10:15:20 AM  
Good press ... I am going to take a look at this game. Might throw $10 his way.
 
2012-10-26 10:18:08 AM  

kab: That if prices were reasonable, folks would gladly pay for content.


It's the 16th top seller on Steam, so apparently a lot of folks are paying for the content.
 
2012-10-26 10:21:09 AM  

kab: That if prices were reasonable, folks would gladly pay for content.


Just wait for Steam sales. I'll pick up Dishonored as soon as it's on sale. I doubt it will take long.
 
2012-10-26 10:36:00 AM  
Hotline Miami is farkin' awesome. Spend the ten bucks - it is well worth it.
 
2012-10-26 10:38:39 AM  
Hotline Miami is certainly awesome. Definitely worth the $10! I usually will buy a game if it looks interesting/someone recommended it to me if it's under $25. Anything over that it has to be awesome, or I just wait for the Steam sale.
 
2012-10-26 10:40:13 AM  
Are those the things that come out of my butt after I go on a two week long all meat and only meat diet?? Neat!
 
2012-10-26 10:40:50 AM  
Hah! Wrong thread. That was meant for the blood brick thread, but it fits nicely here, too.
 
2012-10-26 10:43:26 AM  

kab: Now now, we've been assured in the past that folks only pirate material from big evil corporate entities, since the dev / musician / etc isn't actually getting his proper due anyhow.

That if prices were reasonable, folks would gladly pay for content.

Huh. I guess that was bullshiat after all. Shocked.


Not only is it a high seller, but piracy actually increases sales. Keep farking on, though
 
2012-10-26 10:46:21 AM  

MoronLessOff: kab: That if prices were reasonable, folks would gladly pay for content.

Just wait for Steam sales. I'll pick up Dishonored as soon as it's on sale. I doubt it will take long.


Supposedly you can finish it in a few hours.
 
2012-10-26 10:53:30 AM  
Gamespy?

Was your pedophilic conservative fundamentalist brothers blog too busy? Because they're a more accurate and non partisan source.
 
2012-10-26 10:56:38 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: MoronLessOff: kab: That if prices were reasonable, folks would gladly pay for content.

Just wait for Steam sales. I'll pick up Dishonored as soon as it's on sale. I doubt it will take long.

Supposedly you can finish it in a few hours.


Yea, it's a solid game but it's too short. I think it took me about ten hours and I took my time and did all the side quests. Figuring out the best use of your powers was satisfying though. I enjoyed making guards disappear from in front of their friends mid conversation.
 
2012-10-26 10:57:01 AM  

kab: Now now, we've been assured in the past that folks only pirate material from big evil corporate entities, since the dev / musician / etc isn't actually getting his proper due anyhow.

That if prices were reasonable, folks would gladly pay for content.

Huh. I guess that was bullshiat after all. Shocked.


Pirates are gonna pirate, regardless of cost. It seems like a game worth checking out and it is refreshing to see that a developer understands that this sort of thing happens and doesn't get all butt-hurt about it.
 
2012-10-26 11:06:33 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: MoronLessOff: kab: That if prices were reasonable, folks would gladly pay for content.

Just wait for Steam sales. I'll pick up Dishonored as soon as it's on sale. I doubt it will take long.

Supposedly you can finish it in a few hours.


Which might not be bad if there's plenty of replay value.
 
2012-10-26 11:07:12 AM  
 
2012-10-26 11:23:09 AM  

Sargun: piracy actually increases sales


How?
 
2012-10-26 11:27:46 AM  

Huck Chaser: Sargun: piracy actually increases sales

How?


Look up Monty Python.
 
2012-10-26 11:29:07 AM  

Huck Chaser: Sargun: piracy actually increases sales

How?


In the same way it hurts sales- absolutely no way that we can quantify. Let's say 1,000 people pirate a game. How many of those are lost sales? How many of those will convert to actual sales? We don't know, and we have no good way to actually determine that.
 
2012-10-26 11:30:50 AM  

Huck Chaser: Sargun: piracy actually increases sales

How?


Because word of mouth spreads, and some people still have scruples and will actually buy a game they heard a buddy friend pirated if its good.

Also, the more its pirated, the more the Indy developer's name is out there, leading to an easier time getting their next project financed/published.

Ed McMillian (Binding of Isaac/Super Meat Boy) is another Indie developer that doesn't mind if you pirate his games. He would prefer you buy them, of course.
 
2012-10-26 11:34:08 AM  

Huck Chaser: Sargun: piracy actually increases sales

How?


1. Person does not want to buy game, but is interested (price point too high, no demo, etc)
2. Person pirates game
3. Some people are happy at this point, but rarely is a pirated AAA software title a 100% "can use all features unrestricted" version
4. People who aren't happy with the pirated version purchase legit version at later time/price drop/after they've evaluated the software
5. Customer who wasn't going to give you ANY money has now given you some.


See also: the NFL would make more money if they gave their product away for free without restrictions. (i.e. all games available to all who want to see them in all markets)
 
2012-10-26 11:35:31 AM  
I used to pirate games, until I took a subpoena to the knee.
 
2012-10-26 11:35:39 AM  
I'm gonna pick this up from www.gog.com. I MUCH prefer the free reign it gives me over Steam. I don't mind Steam, but if I have the option of "download it once, and do what I want with it", I'm gonna do that. Hell, I will pay MORE to do that.
 
2012-10-26 11:42:05 AM  

grinding_journalist: Huck Chaser: Sargun: piracy actually increases sales

How?

1. Person does not want to buy game, but is interested (price point too high, no demo, etc)
2. Person pirates game
3. Some people are happy at this point, but rarely is a pirated AAA software title a 100% "can use all features unrestricted" version
4. People who aren't happy with the pirated version purchase legit version at later time/price drop/after they've evaluated the software
5. Customer who wasn't going to give you ANY money has now given you some.


6. Person who pirated it tells friends about how cool the game is, friends proceed to purchase the game.
 
2012-10-26 11:44:49 AM  

Grither: Huck Chaser: Sargun: piracy actually increases sales

How?

Look up Monty Python.


I thought those were accountants sailing on the accountant-sea, not pirates.

t3knomanser: In the same way it hurts sales- absolutely no way that we can quantify. Let's say 1,000 people pirate a game. How many of those are lost sales? How many of those will convert to actual sales? We don't know, and we have no good way to actually determine that.


Sounds reasonable.

Gunderson: Because word of mouth spreads, and some people still have scruples and will actually buy a game they heard a buddy friend pirated if its good.


I don't know, that's pretty hand-wavey.

Gunderson: Also, the more its pirated, the more the Indy developer's name is out there, leading to an easier time getting their next project financed/published.


That's great, but the financers/publishers only care about how much money they made, not how well-known they are. Beyond that, why would somebody who pirated a $10 indie game all of a sudden be willing to buy the next game that's now being put out by a major publisher for $30 or even $60?

I guess it just comes down to what t3knomanser said above; you really can't prove anything either way.
 
2012-10-26 11:52:13 AM  

t3knomanser: kab: That if prices were reasonable, folks would gladly pay for content.

It's the 16th top seller on Steam, so apparently a lot of folks are paying for the content.


That. There are always going to be dickcheeses who pirate for the sake of pirating, and you can't stop them (ask Nintendo, MS, and Sony). What you can do is give a fair deal to the people who are willing to pay for your game, and give them a reason to pay instead of pirate.
 
2012-10-26 12:13:24 PM  

Huck Chaser: Sargun: piracy actually increases sales

How?


Like this:

I was interested in Xcom, but wasn't sure if I'd really like it and new games aren't cheap. So I pirated it, loved it and ended up buying it. If I couldn't pirate it I probably just wouldn't have played it at all. Same thing with the first Mass Effect game and many others. Some of us can't just blow $50 - $60 on every new game that we're not sure if we'll like or not. With pirating I get to try new games I'm unsure about and then give my limited dollars to the ones who deserve it, rather than playing 1/4 the games I would be able to try without pirating and feeling like I got ripped off with the ones I didn't like. This way I get to be much more targeted with my purchases and thus are free to spend right up to my limit.
 
2012-10-26 12:14:23 PM  
I pirated a few games before I bought them. I just didn't think they would be that good. Minecraft is one example.
 
2012-10-26 12:19:37 PM  

mongbiohazard: Huck Chaser: Sargun: piracy actually increases sales

How?

Like this:

I was interested in Xcom, but wasn't sure if I'd really like it and new games aren't cheap. So I pirated it, loved it and ended up buying it. If I couldn't pirate it I probably just wouldn't have played it at all. Same thing with the first Mass Effect game and many others. Some of us can't just blow $50 - $60 on every new game that we're not sure if we'll like or not. With pirating I get to try new games I'm unsure about and then give my limited dollars to the ones who deserve it, rather than playing 1/4 the games I would be able to try without pirating and feeling like I got ripped off with the ones I didn't like. This way I get to be much more targeted with my purchases and thus are free to spend right up to my limit.


I played a bit of the XCOM demo, the first battle. But my power supply doesn't have a cable to connect to my video card, so I'm not getting the most out of it...so I got a very choppy game. It still seems like it could be fun, I just need a new power supply.
 
2012-10-26 12:25:08 PM  

Huck Chaser: I thought those were accountants sailing on the accountant-sea, not pirates.


No, I was being totally serious.
 
2012-10-26 12:51:41 PM  

kab: Now now, we've been assured in the past that folks only pirate material from big evil corporate entities, since the dev / musician / etc isn't actually getting his proper due anyhow.

That if prices were reasonable, folks would gladly pay for content.

Huh. I guess that was bullshiat after all. Shocked.


You will find a lot less people will be supportive of people pirating from indie developers then from studios like EA
 
2012-10-26 01:09:39 PM  

Huck Chaser: How?


People who would have otherwise not bought the game, may buy it after seeing that it's good;

Which is to say, Piracy can increase says for good games, and can massively decrease the sales of bad games.

See, of the people who pirate, you have: Those that would have bought the game if they couldn't pirate, and now won't; those that would have bought the game if they couldn't pirate, and still will; those that wouldn't have bought the game if they couldn't pirate, and now will; and those that wouldn't have bought the game if they couldn't pirate, and still won't.

The latter group is basically a lost sale unless the core game is changed to appeal to them. The second and third groups represent an opportunity for increased sales and a greatly increased consumer base; the first group represents the "loss" from piracy.

The problem is that one cannot really say that group one is bigger than the other groups, nor that the reason for not buying the game after pirating is because they feel no need to pay (I'm talking about dirtbaggery for this one), or because they feel the game is crap, or because the pirated version offers a far better value (see: almost all modern Ubisoft games).
 
2012-10-26 01:12:01 PM  

mongbiohazard: Huck Chaser: Sargun: piracy actually increases sales

How?

Like this:

I was interested in Xcom, but wasn't sure if I'd really like it and new games aren't cheap. So I pirated it, loved it and ended up buying it. If I couldn't pirate it I probably just wouldn't have played it at all. Same thing with the first Mass Effect game and many others. Some of us can't just blow $50 - $60 on every new game that we're not sure if we'll like or not. With pirating I get to try new games I'm unsure about and then give my limited dollars to the ones who deserve it, rather than playing 1/4 the games I would be able to try without pirating and feeling like I got ripped off with the ones I didn't like. This way I get to be much more targeted with my purchases and thus are free to spend right up to my limit.


I appreciate your honest response, but if I'm interpreting you correctly, you actually supported the opposite of the point you were trying to make. Basically, what you described was the best case scenario of pirating; you use it basically as a preview or screening process, and buy the best games out of those you try. That results in exactly zero additional sales for game publishers - it simply distributes your money a bit differently.

/giving more of your money to better publishers is indeed a good thing, but it's beside the point for this particular discussion

Grither: Huck Chaser: I thought those were accountants sailing on the accountant-sea, not pirates.

No, I was being totally serious.


That looks interesting. I'll watch it sometime this weekend if I can. Thanks!
 
2012-10-26 01:33:21 PM  
To the piracy apologists in this thread: instead of trying to justify it, just be honest and say that mom won't let you use her credit card. It's ok, we understand.
 
2012-10-26 01:34:03 PM  

Huck Chaser: I appreciate your honest response, but if I'm interpreting you correctly, you actually supported the opposite of the point you were trying to make. Basically, what you described was the best case scenario of pirating; you use it basically as a preview or screening process, and buy the best games out of those you try. That results in exactly zero additional sales for game publishers - it simply distributes your money a bit differently.


Incorrect. It adds at least one additional sale ... mongbiohazard would not have purchased the game if he did not get to preview it in the pirated form. In addition, he may now also tell friends how good it is and generate additional sales.

Piracy hurts bad games much more than it hurts good games. Just like bad movies ... they need a good opening weekend before word-of-mouth gets out.
 
kab
2012-10-26 01:38:57 PM  

grinding_journalist: Huck Chaser: Sargun: piracy actually increases sales

How?

1. Person does not want to buy game, but is interested (price point too high, no demo, etc)
2. Person pirates game
3. Some people are happy at this point, but rarely is a pirated AAA software title a 100% "can use all features unrestricted" version
4. People who aren't happy with the pirated version purchase legit version at later time/price drop/after they've evaluated the software
5. Customer who wasn't going to give you ANY money has now given you some.


See also: the NFL would make more money if they gave their product away for free without restrictions. (i.e. all games available to all who want to see them in all markets)


3. That only applies to some games. Software, music, movies, etc are generally all fully functional.
4. Maybe 1 out of every 20, and that's being generous.

NFL would make more money if it was broadcast more, simply because they'd increase revenue from ads. That has nothing to do with the consumer cost of watching a game. Should tickets to games be free?
 
2012-10-26 01:40:07 PM  

Farking Canuck: Incorrect. It adds at least one additional sale ... mongbiohazard would not have purchased the game if he did not get to preview it in the pirated form.


No, in the situation he described, he just replaced one game purchase with another.

Basically, there are ten games, and he will buy four of them no matter what. He can either buy four based on reviews and recommendations or pirate all 10 and buy the 4 he likes the most. Either way he's buying 4 games, so the pirating added 0 additional sales.
 
2012-10-26 01:49:23 PM  
I have bought more things because of piracy then if there was none. This guy is probably going to get some of my money now
 
2012-10-26 01:55:47 PM  

Huck Chaser: Farking Canuck: Incorrect. It adds at least one additional sale ... mongbiohazard would not have purchased the game if he did not get to preview it in the pirated form.

No, in the situation he described, he just replaced one game purchase with another.

Basically, there are ten games, and he will buy four of them no matter what. He can either buy four based on reviews and recommendations or pirate all 10 and buy the 4 he likes the most. Either way he's buying 4 games, so the pirating added 0 additional sales.


You are assuming he will purchase the same amount blind even though it leads to a much lower enjoyment level.

Not a good assumption and not supported by what he posted.
 
2012-10-26 02:03:21 PM  

Bhruic: grinding_journalist: Huck Chaser: Sargun: piracy actually increases sales

How?

1. Person does not want to buy game, but is interested (price point too high, no demo, etc)
2. Person pirates game
3. Some people are happy at this point, but rarely is a pirated AAA software title a 100% "can use all features unrestricted" version
4. People who aren't happy with the pirated version purchase legit version at later time/price drop/after they've evaluated the software
5. Customer who wasn't going to give you ANY money has now given you some.

6. Person who pirated it tells friends about how cool the game is, friends proceed to purchase the game.


Exactly. A bit of piracy helps small and medium sized games that rely more on word of mouth than they do massive marketing departments. Piracy hurts the AAA games that churn out crap and sink their budget into advertising.

Huck Chaser: Basically, there are ten games, and he will buy four of them no matter what. He can either buy four based on reviews and recommendations or pirate all 10 and buy the 4 he likes the most. Either way he's buying 4 games, so the pirating added 0 additional sales.


But if everyone purchased the 4 they liked the most, rather than going of reviews and ads, the sales numbers would better reflect actual consumer demand. The other mechanism weights a purchase followed by remorse and "it sucks" and a purchase followed by "this is awesome" the same way. Maybe you won't buy their next game, but you've delayed useful feedback an entire product cycle and might be investing money in a sequel that no one wants.
 
2012-10-26 02:17:10 PM  

mantabulous: To the piracy apologists in this thread: instead of trying to justify it, just be honest and say that mom won't let you use her credit card. It's ok, we understand.


That's a nice way of avoiding discussing a broken system and mindset.

It's quite lovely to see the falling performance of companies that take your "belittle other viewpoints while sticking my head in the sand!" approach.
 
2012-10-26 02:29:09 PM  

tomcatadam: That's a nice way of avoiding discussing a broken system and mindset.

It's quite lovely to see the falling performance of companies that take your "belittle other viewpoints while sticking my head in the sand!" approach.


When I don't like someone's product, I don't buy it. If I'm not sure whether I'll like it, I'll read a review, play a demo, or watch videos of people playing the game on youtube. If I buy a game and it ends up sucking, I don't care too much because my finances can take a $10 hit. What I don't do is pirate games and decide which ones are worthy of my money after I've played through them. You're either trying to justify your cheapness (my guess) or you're too f*cking stupid to make informed consumption decisions even with the wealth of information available to you about whether a game is good or not.
 
2012-10-26 02:30:16 PM  
Game is seriously awesome. Possibly one of the best soundtracks put to a game. Go buy that shiat.

Really short thou. Maybe 4 hours tops the first time through.
 
2012-10-26 02:33:39 PM  
mantabulous:When I don't like someone's product, I don't buy it.

So how do you tell if a DRM scheme simply won't work on your computer until you play the actual game

play a demo

You realize that half the farking point here is that pirating the game can present a more representative demo/experience of the game, right? That many games don't even offer demos these days, and videos alone are terrible metrics by which to measure how well you would enjoy a game?

You're either trying to justify your cheapness (my guess) or you're too f*cking stupid to make informed consumption decisions even with the wealth of information available to you about whether a game is good or not.

You seem to make the broad assumption that I'm "some filthy farkin' pirate".

Ultimately, you still can't really argue that piracy is some great bloody evil thing because you cannot, at all, prove that a majority or even measurable amount of pirates would have bought the game had they not been able to pirate.

Get off your high horse and stop pretending that piracy is a simple dichotomy.
 
2012-10-26 02:41:06 PM  

tomcatadam: Ultimately, you still can't really argue that piracy is some great bloody evil thing because you cannot, at all, prove that a majority or even measurable amount of pirates would have bought the game had they not been able to pirate.

Get off your high horse and stop pretending that piracy is a simple dichotomy.


I never said that people who pirate a game would have purchased it if piracy wasn't an option. I was disputing your claim that people use piracy as way of trying out games before purchasing them. I think the burden of proof is on you to show that that's anything more than an opinion you pulled out of your rectum.
 
kab
2012-10-26 02:44:43 PM  

Bhruic: 6. Person who pirated it tells friends about how cool the game is, friends proceed to purchase the game makes a copy for friend as well.

 
2012-10-26 02:49:00 PM  

tomcatadam: Get off your high horse and stop pretending that piracy is a simple dichotomy.


Let's face the reality: piracy is going to happen, and it always will. Most people, most of the time, are going to do the expected thing and purchase what they want. So long as that's true, piracy is a non-issue. It doesn't matter if a thriving pirate community springs up, you can outperform them because:
a) most people aren't comfortable with piracy
b) you control the value chain

Steam does a thriving trade despite every Steam game being available via piracy. They do this by ensuring they provide end-to-end value through the chain of ownership. GOG doesn't use DRM and offers games that are fantastically easy to pirate- but again, GOG offers a continuous supply of value through the process.
 
2012-10-26 03:03:16 PM  

tomcatadam: So how do you tell if a DRM scheme simply won't work on your computer until you play the actual game


When has this been a problem? The worst case I've heard of was some Ubisoft and Blizzard games that temporarily couldn't be played even in offline mode when the respective company's servers were down. I've never heard of a game being flat out unplayable because of "a DRM scheme."
 
2012-10-26 03:09:37 PM  

Huck Chaser: The worst case I've heard of was some Ubisoft and Blizzard games that temporarily couldn't be played even in offline mode when the respective company's servers were down.


HAHAHA. Ha. That's funny. On the more recent side, the OSX port of AC:II won't launch, period. You have to hack around to get it running, and it won't allow online play. Going back in time, I had all sorts of old CD-ROM games that didn't like my model of CD-ROM.

Then, of course, if you're not running Windows, the challenge to getting a game running usually isn't the game itself (Wine/Crossover are surprisingly competent, yes really), but the DRM.
 
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