We'll just overlook the bigger issues: Microsoft, and Windows 8

My laptop was dying so I rushed to buy one with Windows 7 before 8 came out. I did not want to be stuck with that seeming nightmare....

Brontes: And the Atom Z2760 is a total turd of a chip that is locked down to other OSes, so if you don't like Windows 8, to bad, no Linux for you. The Z2760 was designed for only one thing, to run Windows 8. Welcome to Microsoft's walled garden.

Except that the Surface runs Windows RT on Tegra 3, not Win8 on the x86 Atom. The Z2760 is still a turd, but it can run the full Win8, 3rd party apps like iTunes included.

Doesn't come with iTunes currently, big deal isnt that what Windows Media player is for?

I am sure a Facebook app will come at some point, but isnt that what a web browser is for?

Honestly, I do not see the "need" for individual, compartmentalized apps. I much prefer to go through a web browser.

Also, Apple boasting that they have got 275,000 apps? How many are you really going to use? How many of those are in English? How many are actually useful to the average end user?

Finally, I think attempting to compare the Surface to the iPad is not 100% apples to apples. Based off what I have seen, I suspect that the Surface will have a lot more day to day business use than an iPad, largely due to the cover's touch pad and keyboard.

Endive Wombat: Finally, I think attempting to compare the Surface to the iPad is not 100% apples to apples. Based off what I have seen, I suspect that the Surface will have a lot more day to day business use than an iPad, largely due to the cover's touch pad and keyboard.

Yeah. Though I'm still waiting to see how the Surface Pro will be. As someone who dabbles in digital art, a consistent platform that will run arbitrary x86-compatible apps and has a pen interface is a compelling idea.

Actually the Surface doesn't use an Atom chip, it uses an Nvidia Tegra. I think it will be a flop. It look OK, but the iPad has too much of a head start.

The Atom based tablets should take the high end of the market from Apple with no problem. Who (other than a iFanBoi ) would want a toy instead of an actual computer?

Endive Wombat: Doesn't come with iTunes currently, big deal isnt that what Windows Media player is for?

I am sure a Facebook app will come at some point, but isnt that what a web browser is for?

Honestly, I do not see the "need" for individual, compartmentalized apps. I much prefer to go through a web browser.

Also, Apple boasting that they have got 275,000 apps? How many are you really going to use? How many of those are in English? How many are actually useful to the average end user?

Finally, I think attempting to compare the Surface to the iPad is not 100% apples to apples. Based off what I have seen, I suspect that the Surface will have a lot more day to day business use than an iPad, largely due to the cover's touch pad and keyboard.

Media Player has been totally gimped. It can't even play a DVD anymore.

Endive Wombat: Doesn't come with iTunes currently, big deal isnt that what Windows Media player is for?

I am sure a Facebook app will come at some point, but isnt that what a web browser is for?

Honestly, I do not see the "need" for individual, compartmentalized apps. I much prefer to go through a web browser.

Also, Apple boasting that they have got 275,000 apps? How many are you really going to use? How many of those are in English? How many are actually useful to the average end user?

Finally, I think attempting to compare the Surface to the iPad is not 100% apples to apples. Based off what I have seen, I suspect that the Surface will have a lot more day to day business use than an iPad, largely due to the cover's touch pad and keyboard.

I'm tempted to say it's like comparing apples to lemons

/but I'm a compulsive smartass

Endive Wombat: Doesn't come with iTunes currently, big deal isnt that what Windows Media player is for?

I am sure a Facebook app will come at some point, but isnt that what a web browser is for?

Honestly, I do not see the "need" for individual, compartmentalized apps. I much prefer to go through a web browser.

Also, Apple boasting that they have got 275,000 apps? How many are you really going to use? How many of those are in English? How many are actually useful to the average end user?

Finally, I think attempting to compare the Surface to the iPad is not 100% apples to apples. Based off what I have seen, I suspect that the Surface will have a lot more day to day business use than an iPad, largely due to the cover's touch pad and keyboard.

Windows RT does not come with Windows Media Player and you can't join a domain. Difficult for entertainment and business. I'm sure I'm missing something, but for a Windows home or environment, those seem like pretty big oversights.

*CTRL-F* / "Android" / *ENTER*..... 0/0

Biased article much?

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Endive Wombat:
Finally, I think attempting to compare the Surface to the iPad is not 100% apples to apples. Based off what I have seen, I suspect that the Surface will have a lot more day to day business use than an iPad, largely due to the cover's touch pad and keyboard.

The Surface looks useful. The iPad, no matter what anyone says, is a giant iPod Touch.

I still to this day maintain that no REAL work can be performed on a tablet. The Surface is the only thing that may change my opinion on the matter.

At least you can get a fleshlight attachment for your iPad. I doubt Microsoft will be coming out with that accessory anytime soon...

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: vpb: Actually the Surface doesn't use an Atom chip, it uses an Nvidia Tegra. I think it will be a flop. It look OK, but the iPad has too much of a head start.

You're creating a false dichotomy where you either must sell more than the iPad, or you're a flop.

The tablet market is not even remotely close to saturation. There's lots of room to grow. Now, if the Surface was an iPad clone, then yeah, at this price point I'd say it has an uphill battle. But given the product differentiation, it should appeal to some who'd never consider an iPad. Again, the iPad has been a major disappointment from a business user perspective. A few of my co-workers ran out and bought them, allegedly for work. They carry them to meetings, d*ck around with them a bit, etc. but I shart you not, within 8 weeks they were all leaving their iPads at home. The things weren't even viable for simple note taking.

Yup. Coming from a previously heavy VMware based employer/reseller/integrator...yeah, whooooo...you can run Windows 7 on your iPad with no issues. Big farking whoop. Again, what REAL work will you get accomplished with it? Wanna build a PowerPoint or draft a lengthy document, good luck. Sure, it can be done, but with a lot of effort.

Endive Wombat: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Endive Wombat:
Finally, I think attempting to compare the Surface to the iPad is not 100% apples to apples. Based off what I have seen, I suspect that the Surface will have a lot more day to day business use than an iPad, largely due to the cover's touch pad and keyboard.

The Surface looks useful. The iPad, no matter what anyone says, is a giant iPod Touch.

I still to this day maintain that no REAL work can be performed on a tablet. The Surface is the only thing that may change my opinion on the matter.

At least you can get a fleshlight attachment for your iPad. I doubt Microsoft will be coming out with that accessory anytime soon...

Actually back in 2004 there was a company called HiJoy, that had USB pocket pussies, vibrating eggs, and dildos, that you could use while webcaming with someone, or watching precorded videos, Jenna Jameson was the spokeperson and you could even digitally bang her. The company I worked for sold them some videochatting software with api hooks for the controls.

While I think Windows 8 will be a huge flop, I think the Surface Tablet will be good so long as it's price competitive and there are apps for it. It may take awhile but there's room for another player in the space.

Doesn't come with iTunes is actually a selling feature for me, subby.

/hates that iTunes shiat

t3knomanser: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: The iPad, no matter what anyone says, is a giant iPod Touch.

Just as a point: I've written software on the iPad. Not for the iPad. On it. It's certainly not my preferred environment, but it's entirely workable, especially with an external keyboard. Koder is actually one of the better programmer's text editors that I've used on any platform.

On a related note, Visual Studio is absolutely terrible on the Surface. It's all about optimizing for the screen realestate, and VS2012 is an absolute hog. I'm usually running three monitors at the office, and I absolutely refuse to do programming on just the dinky laptop screen.

Also, I've been very disappointed in Win8's touchscreen features. It's really wonky to use, and really- that tile-based app launcher is awful. I'm still not sure how I'm supposed to add widgets to it, not that I've spent much time thinking about it.

So what you you really should have said is while you can code on both, you prefer to code on traditional equipment. Because the IPAD would also qualify as a dinky laptop screen.

And there is a difference between a text editor and a full blown IDE, which you have access to in need of an emergency fix.

Plus with HDMI out on the Surface you have HDMI out so you could literally plug a monitor in. And of course you can always use an external keyboard.

So advantage Surface.

Endive Wombat: Also, Apple boasting that they have got 275,000 apps? How many are you really going to use? How many of those are in English? How many are actually useful to the average end user?

This, sorta. Any sort of mobile platform or tablet these days should automatically come with the following:

- a web browser
- email
- Facebook
- a decent ereader (ie not locked to a single format/provider/etc)
- a decent music player (see the ereader bit)
- a decent word processor at least on a par with WordPad
- a decent map app
- a camera
- an image manipulator/photo app

People are going to want those things. Other things, like news apps, youtube, stocks, etc should be available, but not everyone will want those pre-loaded. Everyone will want the above, and if you don't have them ready to go, no one is going to buy your shiatty overpriced piece of hardware. Putting something out that I can't even use the way I want says 'I care about rushing to grab a few leaves off of Apple's money tree more than I care about making a useable product', and people know it.

whistleridge: Endive Wombat: Also, Apple boasting that they have got 275,000 apps? How many are you really going to use? How many of those are in English? How many are actually useful to the average end user?

This, sorta. Any sort of mobile platform or tablet these days should automatically come with the following:

- a web browser
- email
- Facebook
- a decent ereader (ie not locked to a single format/provider/etc)
- a decent music player (see the ereader bit)
- a decent word processor at least on a par with WordPad
- a decent map app
- a camera
- an image manipulator/photo app

People are going to want those things. Other things, like news apps, youtube, stocks, etc should be available, but not everyone will want those pre-loaded. Everyone will want the above, and if you don't have them ready to go, no one is going to buy your shiatty overpriced piece of hardware. Putting something out that I can't even use the way I want says 'I care about rushing to grab a few leaves off of Apple's money tree more than I care about making a useable product', and people know it.

Also, a way to watch videos.

Companies don't need 275,000 apps, because most people probably won't regularly use more than 20 or 30 of them. But they DO need 40 - 50 rock-solid ones, with new ones (games, etc) continually in the pipeline.

madgonad: Media Player has been totally gimped. It can't even play a DVD anymore.

I'd think that the lack of a DVD drive on the Surface would get in the way of playing a DVD even more.

gingerjet: theflatline: And there is a difference between a text editor and a full blown IDE, which you have access to in need of an emergency fix.

Plus with HDMI out on the Surface you have HDMI out so you could literally plug a monitor in. And of course you can always use an external keyboard.

So advantage Surface.

How is it "advantage Surface" when you can do all those things with the iPad?

1. You do not need an HDMI out adapter for the Surface. You do for the IPAD. Advantage Surface.

2. The Intel Surface lets you run a flow blown IDE, What was mentioned for the Ipad was a Text Editor. Avantage Surface.

So while it could be said neither was ideal for coding, the Surface has no need for an adapter, and can run full fledged IDEs.

Not to mention the USB ports for external storage....

So if pushed came to shove you could actually get real work done on a surface, and compile on it...

Spin much?

Brontes: And the Atom Z2760 is a total turd of a chip that is locked down to other OSes, so if you don't like Windows 8, to bad, no Linux for you. The Z2760 was designed for only one thing, to run Windows 8. Welcome to Microsoft's walled garden.

Aside from the fact that it actually uses a Tegra 3, how is that any different than almost every Android phone and tablet on the market that has a locked Bootloader?

If I can use it as a Media Extender for WMC, that'd be the tits. Using it, I can lay in bed and watch live or recorded TV and stream stuff from my server at the house. It would be a lot less power-hungry and easier to setup than getting a new TV and putting my old 360 in the bedroom to act as a Media Extender.