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(Huffington Post)   At what point does a beer quit being a beer and becomes a whisky? When it has a alcohol by volume (ABV) of a 65 percent and is called Armageddon   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 175
    More: Cool, Armageddon, malt liquors, BrewDog, percent increase, Fraserburgh, north coast, ABV, IPA  
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8451 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Oct 2012 at 9:37 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-25 02:18:19 PM

WinoRhino: uber humper: What's the heartiest yeast? Is there one that can survive past 15% ABV or so?

Can't get to brewing yeast sites here at work (filtered connections). But if you go to "white labs" I think they have a section of high tolerance yeasts that will tell you what they're good up to. There's a Belgian yeast I've used to create some really nice strong darks (quads) slightly over 12% that had no troubles.


I've used the Chimay strain (WLP500) to ferment my Quad to 14%. Lots of invert sugar and a prolonged beta amylase rest helps lower the FG and a relatively hot ferment towards the end.
 
2012-10-25 02:32:48 PM
Armageddon!

/can't believe this hasn't been posted yet
 
2012-10-25 02:49:34 PM

Victoly: uber humper: This is to beer what cognac is to Champagne. Or brandy to wine....

Congac is to brandy what scotch is to whisky.


Overpriced, overhyped mediocrity? Sounds about right.
 
2012-10-25 02:57:01 PM

Cerebral Knievel: Be careful with that though. Sometimes the bottle yeast is not the same as the tank yeast.


Tanks for the tip.
 
2012-10-25 03:16:06 PM

Mose: Cerebral Knievel: Be careful with that though. Sometimes the bottle yeast is not the same as the tank yeast.

Tanks for the tip.


Absolutely,
now that i'm on my laptop and off my phone,

one of the biggest reasons some folks do that is to protect the house yeast from competitors. It must also be considered that if it's from an import it most likely was pasteurized before it was exported I know that used to be a regulation, not sure anymore though, but if it was, anything in the bottle very well be dead.

I can tell you the way we handle our cask beers and unfiltered package.. the package is run through a centrifuge to remove 85% of the solids, and the casks are poured directly from the tanks and then krausened, about 8-10 ounces of actively fermenting beer per 10.8 gallons of crashed beer from the tank. So it is very possible to propagate off our stuff.
 
2012-10-25 03:18:57 PM
How can they call Sam Adams a craft beer? (In the accompanying slide show.) It's the biggest American owned brewery in the world.
 
2012-10-25 03:19:17 PM
Cerebral Knievel:

Speaking of your 'fuge, how's that treating you now that you've been putting it to use for a while longer? Still loving it?
 
2012-10-25 03:30:35 PM

uglyonef: How can they call Sam Adams a craft beer? (In the accompanying slide show.) It's the biggest American owned brewery in the world.


cause it's nawt bud
 
2012-10-25 03:30:59 PM
damn no edit button...

All the yeasts we use are commercially available to the homebrewers market, it's only our two house strains that are licensed only to us for commercial use.


and to the overall discusion about Ice distilling? I wouldn't consider the end product to be a spirit over a beer, but it most certainly is cheating IMHO Eisbocks are a recognized style, we have made them before, and the state makes no restrictions on our license to use the method.
you can concentrate it all you want, you just can't vaporize it, at that point you are making a whole new thing. it takes more specialized equipment different licensing and certainly different methods of Handling and cellarmanship.

but, once again, yes, it's a gimmick, at least how and why they are doing it. in my opinion at least. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should, and if you are, it's done for the purpose of marketing the rest of your lineup, and if that's all you got going on with your line up? then I just don't think it's a sound business model.
 
2012-10-25 03:37:15 PM
whiskey is mighty risky
stick with beer engineering

i.ytimg.com
 
2012-10-25 03:44:50 PM

Bruxellensis: Cerebral Knievel:

Speaking of your 'fuge, how's that treating you now that you've been putting it to use for a while longer? Still loving it?


its... friggen... AWESOME!

we bring the beer in from the fermenter, spin it out till it's 90% clear to a holding tank, then take it from there through the final polish, with the plates, for draft, or sanitary. in the final brite tank.

added a couple of steps, but it cuts the time down to do it by way more than half. It only takes an hour to fuge a tank, and about an hour and a half for the final prep transfer

using just the pad filter took 3 hours on a good day, 9 on a bad, with the pads only good for about 30-70bbls before they needed to be changed. depending on the beer and crash time.

with the fuge, 3 hours max for the whole mess, and the life of the pads has now gone up to an average of 90bbls, with 120 being nominal. those pads cost about $1.50 each and the frame takes 60 of them.
so there is a lot of savings right there.

and now with our winter season hitting the streets, a Belgian style wit, it gets to skip the pads completely and I can have 120bbls available for the bottling tanks in about 6 hours. where as before that would have been a 30/70 blend of unfiltered to filtered, that would've taken four days prior.

yeah, we are enjoying it, I think we will keep it.

we are selling off all our 20bbl tanks for 30bbl tanks, so if you know anyone in the market for one, I think we are letting them go for $7000 a pop, less if you are buying more than one of course... bulk rates apply.
 
2012-10-25 03:46:00 PM

WinoRhino: karnal: You must be a girl?

I've been brewing for almost 20 years. I've traveled to Germany, Belgium, UK, Czech Republic, and had a lot of fine brews. I've had plenty of the celebrity beers that are quite popular now as well such as Heady Topper, Pliny, Kate the Great, Westy 12, and next weekend I will be at Ebeneezer's in Maine to have some Black Albert. And I like Corona. Not only that, but Corona Light with a lime in it.


That was a masterful troll. It might be true, but as trolling goes, this exchange is easily a 10/10.
 
2012-10-25 03:55:26 PM

Cerebral Knievel: Bruxellensis: Cerebral Knievel:

Speaking of your 'fuge, how's that treating you now that you've been putting it to use for a while longer? Still loving it?

its... friggen... AWESOME!

we bring the beer in from the fermenter, spin it out till it's 90% clear to a holding tank, then take it from there through the final polish, with the plates, for draft, or sanitary. in the final brite tank.

added a couple of steps, but it cuts the time down to do it by way more than half. It only takes an hour to fuge a tank, and about an hour and a half for the final prep transfer

using just the pad filter took 3 hours on a good day, 9 on a bad, with the pads only good for about 30-70bbls before they needed to be changed. depending on the beer and crash time.

with the fuge, 3 hours max for the whole mess, and the life of the pads has now gone up to an average of 90bbls, with 120 being nominal. those pads cost about $1.50 each and the frame takes 60 of them.
so there is a lot of savings right there.

and now with our winter season hitting the streets, a Belgian style wit, it gets to skip the pads completely and I can have 120bbls available for the bottling tanks in about 6 hours. where as before that would have been a 30/70 blend of unfiltered to filtered, that would've taken four days prior.

yeah, we are enjoying it, I think we will keep it.

we are selling off all our 20bbl tanks for 30bbl tanks, so if you know anyone in the market for one, I think we are letting them go for $7000 a pop, less if you are buying more than one of course... bulk rates apply.


Awesome. Purely awesome. I'm going to pitch the idea to my friends at one of the local breweries (the one where I used to work). They have stepped up their production quite a bit in the last couple years, including several 100BBL fermenters and brite tanks. Still, it seems that the pad filtering system is their bottleneck, other than the bottling/canning process, of course.

Also, I wish I could take those 20BBL guys from ya. I'm a bit short on cash. ...and space, and utilities...and...

I know another brewer who's looking for some used 7BBL fermenters, maybe 2 or 3. He doesn't have the capacity for 20BBL tanks though.

Cheers!
 
2012-10-25 04:18:39 PM

foxyshadis: That was a masterful troll. It might be true, but as trolling goes, this exchange is easily a 10/10.


You've got some low standards and aren't sure what trolling looks like, I think.
 
2012-10-25 04:23:30 PM

Bruxellensis:

Awesome. Purely awesome. I'm going to pitch the idea to my friends at one of the local breweries (the one where I used to work). They have stepped up their production quite a bit in the last couple years, including several 100BBL fermenters and brite tanks. Still, it seems that the pad filtering system is their bottleneck, other than the bottling/canning process, of course.

the next experiment with the 'fuge is to put a buffer tank between the fuge and the polishing filter so it can all be run right in line instead of running to a holding tank first.. direct out put from the fuge is too fast and turbulant. we are going to use one of the old 8bbl bright tanks for that, I'll let you know how it works out.

as for the guy looking for 7bbl FV's? all the 20bbl tanks we have are left over from when we were running a 10bbl brewhouse, and needed tank space, so two runs, filled one tank, now that we use a 30bbl house, one run has to be split between two tanks, so upgrading to 30bbl tanks doubles capacity for the same floor space.

so if tank space is that guys concern? then he might want to think about it.
 
2012-10-25 05:02:16 PM

McGrits:

I have a bottle of Sink the Bismark in the back closet. I doubt it is aging much. Maybe some oxidation will help..



I opened my bottle of Sink the Bismark and was very disappointed. I just can't find any redeeming qualities about the beer. Especially for the price I paid.

Utopias however, is an amazing beer that I strongly recommend. Brewed by the Boston Beer Company, 30% ABV using natural fermentation. I had it at my wedding in place of champagne. Awesome brew.
 
2012-10-25 05:28:05 PM

Cerebral Knievel: Bruxellensis:

Awesome. Purely awesome. I'm going to pitch the idea to my friends at one of the local breweries (the one where I used to work). They have stepped up their production quite a bit in the last couple years, including several 100BBL fermenters and brite tanks. Still, it seems that the pad filtering system is their bottleneck, other than the bottling/canning process, of course.

the next experiment with the 'fuge is to put a buffer tank between the fuge and the polishing filter so it can all be run right in line instead of running to a holding tank first.. direct out put from the fuge is too fast and turbulant. we are going to use one of the old 8bbl bright tanks for that, I'll let you know how it works out.

as for the guy looking for 7bbl FV's? all the 20bbl tanks we have are left over from when we were running a 10bbl brewhouse, and needed tank space, so two runs, filled one tank, now that we use a 30bbl house, one run has to be split between two tanks, so upgrading to 30bbl tanks doubles capacity for the same floor space.

so if tank space is that guys concern? then he might want to think about it.


Makes sense, but his constraint is more of an issue of floor space and product demand. This particular brewery is a small brew pub. They like to have a wide variety of beers on tap, but they don't go through them all that fast. So, brewing several different 7BBL batches makes sense for their M.O. They currently have three tanks, but it sounds like they can fit five in the space they have. Or at least they want to fit five. It looks pretty tight in there right now if you ask me.

/he makes GREAT beer - tought me a lot of what I know
 
2012-10-25 05:29:36 PM

Avonmore: I had it at my wedding in place of champagne


Cool!
 
2012-10-25 05:49:56 PM

Bruxellensis: Cerebral Knievel: Bruxellensis:

Awesome. Purely awesome. I'm going to pitch the idea to my friends at one of the local breweries (the one where I used to work). They have stepped up their production quite a bit in the last couple years, including several 100BBL fermenters and brite tanks. Still, it seems that the pad filtering system is their bottleneck, other than the bottling/canning process, of course.

the next experiment with the 'fuge is to put a buffer tank between the fuge and the polishing filter so it can all be run right in line instead of running to a holding tank first.. direct out put from the fuge is too fast and turbulant. we are going to use one of the old 8bbl bright tanks for that, I'll let you know how it works out.

as for the guy looking for 7bbl FV's? all the 20bbl tanks we have are left over from when we were running a 10bbl brewhouse, and needed tank space, so two runs, filled one tank, now that we use a 30bbl house, one run has to be split between two tanks, so upgrading to 30bbl tanks doubles capacity for the same floor space.

so if tank space is that guys concern? then he might want to think about it.

Makes sense, but his constraint is more of an issue of floor space and product demand. This particular brewery is a small brew pub. They like to have a wide variety of beers on tap, but they don't go through them all that fast. So, brewing several different 7BBL batches makes sense for their M.O. They currently have three tanks, but it sounds like they can fit five in the space they have. Or at least they want to fit five. It looks pretty tight in there right now if you ask me.

/he makes GREAT beer - tought me a lot of what I know


Ahhh... that makes sense as well... well, lets look at it this way.... and I aint trying to sell these old tanks, I'm just talking beer here.. if the guy has one particular beer, a flagship if you will, the house beer that he sells a lot of, he may do well to get a double batch sized tank to handle that load, and then use his existing tanks for the specialties and seasonals. .

when I grow up, I want to be a consultant :D

which reminds me, I need to drop my cousin down in Florida a line about that thing and the stuff.


BTW, when I got married, we held the reception here at the pub and I made a braggot out of my step dads honey and the wort from our golden Ale for the toast.. only a five gallon batch HB sized batch and we ran right through it.
 
2012-10-25 05:52:09 PM
damn nonexistant edit button...

dude could probably save a lot of money by getting one double sized tank to handle the flagship load, instead of purchasing a bunch of smaller tanks,
 
2012-10-25 06:10:33 PM
HA!!! I have ancestors from Fraserburgh!
 
2012-10-26 10:27:33 AM

Cerebral Knievel: damn nonexistant edit button...

dude could probably save a lot of money by getting one double sized tank to handle the flagship load, instead of purchasing a bunch of smaller tanks,


I don't know what his sales volumes are per style, but I do know some sell more than others. I'm not sure if he has one flagship that he could make use of a larger FV. I'm sure he's put thought into this, since he's been planning and looking for over a year now. I'll talk to him about it and see what his plan is specifically.

Brew on!
 
2012-10-26 04:21:24 PM

Bruxellensis: Cerebral Knievel: damn nonexistant edit button...

dude could probably save a lot of money by getting one double sized tank to handle the flagship load, instead of purchasing a bunch of smaller tanks,

I don't know what his sales volumes are per style, but I do know some sell more than others. I'm not sure if he has one flagship that he could make use of a larger FV. I'm sure he's put thought into this, since he's been planning and looking for over a year now. I'll talk to him about it and see what his plan is specifically.

Brew on!


once again, not trying to sell stuff, but.... we do have this one tank that we could probably make a really sweet deal on. it has an internal outward dent. more of a hump really. If I remember the history of this tank correctly, a naughty cellar man of years gone by let the tank pull a vacuum and it did not have a push pull relief valve in place at the time. the tank was repaired, and the deflection is not severe enough to cause any inaccuracies in level readings. and it has served us well for 15+ years with out any issues.
but because it does have that bit of damage, we are looking to let that go for under $3k

as far as i can tell, tanks, once they get to a certain size, start going for a grand a bbl.
 
2012-10-26 05:42:58 PM
Cerebral Knievel:

You know what, I'll let him know that there's a slightly dented FV available on the cheap. Was that a 20BBL? If he's interested, how should I contact you? I also check the email in my profile about once a month.

$1k/BBL sounds about right for brand new SS with sanitary welds. Makes the used/scratch/dent market look more appealing.
 
2012-10-26 06:23:17 PM

Bruxellensis: Cerebral Knievel:

You know what, I'll let him know that there's a slightly dented FV available on the cheap. Was that a 20BBL? If he's interested, how should I contact you? I also check the email in my profile about once a month.

$1k/BBL sounds about right for brand new SS with sanitary welds. Makes the used/scratch/dent market look more appealing.


just updated my profile to reflect my profesional Email address.goes right to my phone. you know which parts to remove to make it work.

talking to the guy who is actually in charge of selling these things, they are rated 15bbls, 20 total. $5k upickitup. but it's still a $20k tank. if dude is interested, I'll put him in touch with the other guy
 
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