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(Huffington Post)   At what point does a beer quit being a beer and becomes a whisky? When it has a alcohol by volume (ABV) of a 65 percent and is called Armageddon   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 175
    More: Cool, Armageddon, malt liquors, BrewDog, percent increase, Fraserburgh, north coast, ABV, IPA  
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8461 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Oct 2012 at 9:37 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-25 10:15:17 AM  

Buck Henderson: So anyone know who has the record for highest ABV beer where the final ABV is a result of yeast fermentation only? I think it was Utopias for a bit, but have any other non-distilled challengers appeared?


I have heard it's Utopias also.
 
2012-10-25 10:16:16 AM  

Corvus: So they are knowledgeable about strong ales? What are their thoughts on beers like Mephistopheles or Samuel Adams Utopias? Do they have experience with Eisbocks too?


I would have to give him a call and ask him as he is not a farker. But, given his time spent in Europe and Asia while in the military, and the fact he really enjoys his booze, I would say he has to have some kind of opinion on the matter, but I would not know it.
 
2012-10-25 10:17:41 AM  

gopher321: Let me guess: it's target demographic? College kids.


Probably way too expensive for college kids who look for good alcohol/price ratio. Cheap beer and vodka is easier to get and chug. Why buy a single bottle of Dogfish Head 120 Min IPA for $10, when you can get a 12 pack of basic American Lager for the same price?
 
2012-10-25 10:17:48 AM  
As a teenager I tried making applejack by freeze-distilling some alcoholic cider.

Not only does removal of water as ice concentrate the alcohol, it also concentrates every thing else such as sugar and flavor compounds.

To produce 65% ABV the starting point should be very dry and near flavorless and even then it will wind up concentrating congeners and nasty flavors.
 
2012-10-25 10:18:48 AM  

EZ Writer: spacelord321: EZ Writer: When they become barley wines? Barley wines typically start at 8-12 %... but there are plenty of stouts/IPAs/ales in that range as well.

This is my favorite: Lost Abbey: The Angel's Share Grand Cru

So. Farking. Good.

I used to get down with Weybacher Brewery's Blithering Idiot barly wine at 13%. It's a fitting name. Weybacher brews some good stuff. I also enjoy their Merry Monks Ale at 11%.

Lost too many days to that brewery.

YES, PLEASE! Had my first one just a few days ago. Good stuff. My other favorites are Aventinus, Franziskaner Dunkelweizen, and Tripel Karmeliet. If you haven't tried any of them, you won't be disappointed. Less wealthy, but not disappointed...


Thanks. Made a note of those. Trying new beers is always a good excuse to drink!
 
2012-10-25 10:19:28 AM  

WhippingBoy: I used to be in to craft beer. But now, things have gotten so "extreme" it's absolutely absurd, so I've stopped supporting craft breweries.

- If I want a good beer, I'll make it myself
- If I buy beer, from now on it's PBR or Old Milwaukee (or the cheapest macro brew then have on tap)

/way to ruin it for everyone, jerks!


That's the dumbest, most asinine thing that I've heard all day and I've spent the bulk of the morning watching election coverage on CNN.
 
2012-10-25 10:22:29 AM  

HST's Dead Carcass: Corvus: So they are knowledgeable about strong ales? What are their thoughts on beers like Mephistopheles or Samuel Adams Utopias? Do they have experience with Eisbocks too?

I would have to give him a call and ask him as he is not a farker. But, given his time spent in Europe and Asia while in the military, and the fact he really enjoys his booze, I would say he has to have some kind of opinion on the matter, but I would not know it.


It depends a lot on where in Europe they were. Much of Europe is not very good beer. Areas like Belgium are very good and pockets here and there. In-Bev is owned by Anheuser-Busch and there stuff is swill. And only recently has any good beers come out of Asia.

I have friends who "really enjoy booze" but they have no farking idea what they are drinking. Just because your not drinking a "coors" or "bud light" doesn't make you some beer expert.
 
2012-10-25 10:23:15 AM  
I ordered one. Looking forward to the novelty of it.
 
2012-10-25 10:23:57 AM  
I doubt this will make me switch my my prefered brand:
jrburch.com
 
2012-10-25 10:24:07 AM  
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-10-25 10:24:17 AM  

gopher321: Let me guess: it's target demographic? College kids.


Yup. And it's only a matter of time before some frat kid shotguns five or six of these in a row, smashes the bottles against his forehead, then keels over and dies.
 
2012-10-25 10:24:53 AM  
When freeze distilling is done right: 

thefullpint.com
 
2012-10-25 10:25:24 AM  
I bought one, couldn't resist. Be here in time for thanksgiving!
 
2012-10-25 10:25:35 AM  

NutWrench: gopher321: Let me guess: it's target demographic? College kids.

Yup. And it's only a matter of time before some frat kid shotguns five or six of these in a row, smashes the bottles against his forehead, then keels over and dies.


And nothing of value will be lost...
 
2012-10-25 10:25:37 AM  

jfivealive: jfivealive: uber humper: jfivealive: Oh wow you can buy it online. I just might have to.

depends on your state.

New York

Looks to me like as long as there is someone over the age of 21 to sign for it when it comes, its no problem!

It is an $80 bottle of beer tho


In 30 years you could tell people about the $80 bottle of beer you drank, not the glass of PBR.
 
2012-10-25 10:27:14 AM  

mortimer_ford: WhippingBoy: mortimer_ford: WhippingBoy: I used to be in to craft beer. But now, things have gotten so "extreme" it's absolutely absurd, so I've stopped supporting craft breweries.....

.....If you support a microbrewery who doesn't cater to these gimmicks, than you're targeting a certain company and rewarding them for their behavior within the industry.


Well said mortimer.

There is indeed much ridiculousness out there, but a lot of it is due to producers feeling the need to scream out above the rabble. The daunting array of options and certain consumers' ADD-like purchasing tendancies sometimes makes this seem like the only option to gain eyeballs on the shelf.

As mortimer said, if you seek out and reward producers who are doing things the way YOU think they should, they are more likely to thrive and be encouragement to others.

Everyboday should find a good bottle shop or beer bar with knowledgeable staff and become their friend. Yes, some of them can be needlessly trend-whorey or generally snobbish, but not all of them are. Explain what you like, and the good ones will listen to you and point you to (or start purchasing) the good producers.
 
2012-10-25 10:28:01 AM  

calm like a bomb: HST's Dead Carcass: I bought a friend a bottle of Tactical Nuclear Penguin by the same company. It was $60 for a 20 oz bottle. He and some friends cracked it open for hsi birthday, they said it tasted farking nasty!

High gravity beers have to be balanced well. There are many, many beers that taste like shiat at 12%. I've never had anything above 15% that I'd drink again. I can't imagine 65% being any good.

I think this is like the capsacin wars the chiliheads engage in. You reach a point where everything just tastes like shiat, but the percentage is higher so you "win".


Nothing over 15% that you've liked?

A challenger approaches:

www.dogfish.com
 
2012-10-25 10:31:25 AM  

kbotc: calm like a bomb: HST's Dead Carcass: I bought a friend a bottle of Tactical Nuclear Penguin by the same company. It was $60 for a 20 oz bottle. He and some friends cracked it open for hsi birthday, they said it tasted farking nasty!

High gravity beers have to be balanced well. There are many, many beers that taste like shiat at 12%. I've never had anything above 15% that I'd drink again. I can't imagine 65% being any good.

I think this is like the capsacin wars the chiliheads engage in. You reach a point where everything just tastes like shiat, but the percentage is higher so you "win".

Nothing over 15% that you've liked?

A challenger approaches:

[www.dogfish.com image 112x400]


Yes, great beer. here is a couple other very nice +15%ers

Samuel Adams Utopias
www.boston.com
27%

thefullpint.com
15.1%
 
2012-10-25 10:31:41 AM  

WhippingBoy: I used to be in to craft beer. But now, things have gotten so "extreme" it's absolutely absurd, so I've stopped supporting craft breweries.

- If I want a good beer, I'll make it myself
- If I buy beer, from now on it's PBR or Old Milwaukee (or the cheapest macro brew then have on tap)

/way to ruin it for everyone, jerks!


Don't give up on all microbrews. There's plenty of good stuff still out there. I agree though, some of this stuff has gotten really stupid, but if you're paying attention it's not hard to avoid.
 
2012-10-25 10:32:39 AM  
i don't drink for flavor
i drink to get drunk

/pretty sure all of u are the same way
//after all this is FARK
 
2012-10-25 10:33:14 AM  
www.ratebeer.com
This guy is only 11% but to all the Barley Wine haters of before, this one is one of-- if not my favorite.
 
2012-10-25 10:34:52 AM  

Buck Henderson: So anyone know who has the record for highest ABV beer where the final ABV is a result of yeast fermentation only? I think it was Utopias for a bit, but have any other non-distilled challengers appeared?


I'm pretty sure Utopias still reigns. It's made using champagne yeast so they could tolerate the higher ABV.
 
2012-10-25 10:36:14 AM  
Another great high alcohol beer:

definitiveale.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-10-25 10:37:09 AM  
I really like Corona. You've probably heard of it - it's readily available everywhere.
 
2012-10-25 10:37:41 AM  

TofuTheAlmighty: Buck Henderson: So anyone know who has the record for highest ABV beer where the final ABV is a result of yeast fermentation only? I think it was Utopias for a bit, but have any other non-distilled challengers appeared?

I'm pretty sure Utopias still reigns. It's made using champagne yeast so they could tolerate the higher ABV.


I had heard that they developed their own yeast. I don't think normal champagne yeast can go that high. I am pretty sure that they developed their own proprietary yeast for it.
 
2012-10-25 10:38:00 AM  
I'm with the rest here - when you distil it rather than brew it, it's not a beer, it's a whisky. This applies regardless of the method of distillation.

/The stuff sounds horiffic.
 
2012-10-25 10:40:11 AM  

kbotc: calm like a bomb: HST's Dead Carcass: I bought a friend a bottle of Tactical Nuclear Penguin by the same company. It was $60 for a 20 oz bottle. He and some friends cracked it open for hsi birthday, they said it tasted farking nasty!

High gravity beers have to be balanced well. There are many, many beers that taste like shiat at 12%. I've never had anything above 15% that I'd drink again. I can't imagine 65% being any good.

I think this is like the capsacin wars the chiliheads engage in. You reach a point where everything just tastes like shiat, but the percentage is higher so you "win".

Nothing over 15% that you've liked?

A challenger approaches:

[www.dogfish.com image 112x400]


The few times I've looked for 120min, I couldn't find it. I'm not that big on IPAs, so it hasn't really been a quest for me. Also, ditto Utopias- asked for it for Christmas last year, none could be found.
 
2012-10-25 10:41:03 AM  

Private_Citizen: I'm with the rest here - when you distil it rather than brew it, it's not a beer, it's a whisky. This applies regardless of the method of distillation.

/The stuff sounds horiffic.


So Eisbocks are not beers anymore? They have been for 100 years.

So you think whiskey has hops in it and doesn't need to be aged in barrels? Wow you must drink shiat whiskey.
 
2012-10-25 10:42:08 AM  

calm like a bomb: The few times I've looked for 120min, I couldn't find it. I'm not that big on IPAs, so it hasn't really been a quest for me. Also, ditto Utopias- asked for it for Christmas last year, none could be found.


What state do you live in?
 
2012-10-25 10:42:56 AM  

Private_Citizen: I'm with the rest here - when you distil it rather than brew it, it's not a beer, it's a whisky. This applies regardless of the method of distillation.

/The stuff sounds horiffic.


so mighty risky

or a beer engineer?
 
2012-10-25 10:44:32 AM  

EZ Writer: Rev.K: EZ Writer: When they become barley wines? Barley wines typically start at 8-12 %

The only barleywine I ever had was utterly undrinkable.

Bitter as f*ck and tasted like blood.

I can't remember the name of it now.

If you like good beer, don't judge them all off of one bad experience. If I had done that, I would have quit after my first beer (Stroh's). Stroh's literally translates to "piss straight from the cock". I'm pretty sure anyway... But I have no evidence to back that up.


Wouldn't that create a naming copyright issue with Corona?
 
2012-10-25 10:45:13 AM  

calm like a bomb: The few times I've looked for 120min, I couldn't find it. I'm not that big on IPAs, so it hasn't really been a quest for me. Also, ditto Utopias- asked for it for Christmas last year, none could be found.


120 min is very hard to find. Utopias shouldn't be that bad. They should have it (or can get it) at a high end liquor store or bottle store that knows anything craft beer.
 
2012-10-25 10:45:14 AM  

Corvus: calm like a bomb: The few times I've looked for 120min, I couldn't find it. I'm not that big on IPAs, so it hasn't really been a quest for me. Also, ditto Utopias- asked for it for Christmas last year, none could be found.

What state do you live in?


NC
 
2012-10-25 10:45:21 AM  

Corvus: I have friends who "really enjoy booze" but they have no farking idea what they are drinking. Just because your not drinking a "coors" or "bud light" doesn't make you some beer expert.


We all worked at a local brewery and he helped design the On On Ale, a dark and hoppy little creation of about 8% ABV. He was a great fan of their Milk Stout as well. I really wish I could give better credentials for his snobbery, but alas, I am 8 years sober and don't touch the stuff (even though I worked at the brewery). We used to be roommate and he said I was the greatest roommate EVAR because he never had to worry about his beer and scotch getting drank.

I will say I totally trust his judgment on these things, as we used to drink together back in the day.
 
2012-10-25 10:45:50 AM  
Fuggin Bizzy

I really like Corona
. You've probably heard of it - it's readily available everywhere.



You must be a girl?
 
2012-10-25 10:46:42 AM  

This text is now purple: It goes from beer to liquor at the moment it stops being brewed and starts being distilled.

Applejack is a liquor whereas hard cider is (not quite a) beer. Once you start artificially aiding the yeast, it's liquor. About the only counter-example I can think of is port, which is really a mixture of wine and liquor, and basically scoots by via grandfather clause.


Also, the process described in TFA:

The beer then undergoes a process called freeze fermenting, which involves cooling the beer to freezing. The water freezes, but the alcohol does not -- when the ice is removed a very strong beer remains.

Is known as "jacking." It's how applejack was first created.

Long before San Diego, settlers were Jackin' it in New England.
 
2012-10-25 10:47:01 AM  
There's a place here in Baton Rouge that sells Armageddon and Tactical Nuclear Penguin among their other 400 beers. Problem is, they cost $300 and $150 respectively. Would like to try them some day.
 
2012-10-25 10:47:55 AM  

Jon iz teh kewl: i don't drink for flavor
i drink to get drunk

/pretty sure all of u are the same way
//after all this is FARK


There was a time when I drank to get drunk. Now I prefer to have a couple of flavorful beers to rub the edge off and then switch to low alcohol crap beer to sustain the buzz without getting stupid.
 
2012-10-25 10:48:21 AM  

Corvus: They should have it (or can get it) at a high end liquor store or bottle store that knows anything craft beer.


And therein lies my quandary. One decent beer store around, I asked, they couldn't.
 
2012-10-25 10:48:34 AM  

calm like a bomb: kbotc: calm like a bomb: HST's Dead Carcass: I bought a friend a bottle of Tactical Nuclear Penguin by the same company. It was $60 for a 20 oz bottle. He and some friends cracked it open for hsi birthday, they said it tasted farking nasty!

High gravity beers have to be balanced well. There are many, many beers that taste like shiat at 12%. I've never had anything above 15% that I'd drink again. I can't imagine 65% being any good.

I think this is like the capsacin wars the chiliheads engage in. You reach a point where everything just tastes like shiat, but the percentage is higher so you "win".

Nothing over 15% that you've liked?

A challenger approaches:

[www.dogfish.com image 112x400]

The few times I've looked for 120min, I couldn't find it. I'm not that big on IPAs, so it hasn't really been a quest for me. Also, ditto Utopias- asked for it for Christmas last year, none could be found.


If you can find 120 min try it - it's not an IPA in the traditional sense. It's surprisingly sweet with floral and citrus notes, but depends on the year you get: some are good, some aren't as good. 

Of course the owner of Dogfish gets on his extreme crazy beer phase and won't brew the stuff that people actually like and drink.
 
2012-10-25 10:49:52 AM  

calm like a bomb: Corvus: calm like a bomb: The few times I've looked for 120min, I couldn't find it. I'm not that big on IPAs, so it hasn't really been a quest for me. Also, ditto Utopias- asked for it for Christmas last year, none could be found.

What state do you live in?

NC


Bummer. Here in California craft beer fall from the trees. I most likely could find Utopias in walking distance. (but I do live in one of the biggest craft beer cities, in the area of town with some of the greatest craft beer bars and stores).
 
2012-10-25 10:51:00 AM  

Corvus: Private_Citizen: I'm with the rest here - when you distil it rather than brew it, it's not a beer, it's a whisky. This applies regardless of the method of distillation.

/The stuff sounds horiffic.

So Eisbocks are not beers anymore? They have been for 100 years.

So you think whiskey has hops in it and doesn't need to be aged in barrels? Wow you must drink shiat whiskey.


You are correct, it's not a whisky - I was copying subbies title. However, I would still class it as a distilled spirit.

At 65%, it sure sure isn't a beer anymore.

/I'm partial to Elijah Craig 18yo, but it's sold out world wide right now. I do have some barrel strength I bought when I was at HH.
 
2012-10-25 10:51:33 AM  

syberpud: If you can find 120 min try it - it's not an IPA in the traditional sense. It's surprisingly sweet with floral and citrus notes, but depends on the year you get: some are good, some aren't as good.


good point. Yes it's not like an IPA. It's dry and sweet not what most people would expect from an IPA.
 
2012-10-25 10:51:49 AM  

Rincewind53: WhippingBoy: mortimer_ford: WhippingBoy: I used to be in to craft beer. But now, things have gotten so "extreme" it's absolutely absurd, so I've stopped supporting craft breweries.

- If I want a good beer, I'll make it myself
- If I buy beer, from now on it's PBR or Old Milwaukee (or the cheapest macro brew then have on tap)

/way to ruin it for everyone, jerks!

There's still good micro brews out there. Just stay away from the stuff named after sexual innuendos.

I realize that there's excellent micros out there. I just refuse to support an industry that's in the process of switching from making good beer to making gimmicks or yet another IPA. Where before it was quality, now marketing and bullshiat are now starting to dominate the craft beer industry.

That's like saying "Screw these restaurants making too fancy food, I'm going to McDonald's."


No. It's like saying "These restaurants used to make sublime meals... but now they're switching to wacky molecular gastronomy... I'm going to McDonald's".

Admittedly, I'm being overly dramatic. In all likelihood I'll just buy from craft brewers that haven't yet resorted to some sort of gimmick (or don't produce yet another ubiquitous IPA).
 
2012-10-25 10:52:26 AM  

HairBolus: As a teenager I tried making applejack by freeze-distilling some alcoholic cider.

Not only does removal of water as ice concentrate the alcohol, it also concentrates every thing else such as sugar and flavor compounds.

To produce 65% ABV the starting point should be very dry and near flavorless and even then it will wind up concentrating congeners and nasty flavors.


Along with some other nasty shiat that would normally be left behind in a true distillation.

/Wanted to '"jack" some hard cider from a local source; they talked me out of it.
 
2012-10-25 10:55:06 AM  

Corvus: calm like a bomb: Corvus: calm like a bomb: The few times I've looked for 120min, I couldn't find it. I'm not that big on IPAs, so it hasn't really been a quest for me. Also, ditto Utopias- asked for it for Christmas last year, none could be found.

What state do you live in?

NC

Bummer. Here in California craft beer fall from the trees. I most likely could find Utopias in walking distance. (but I do live in one of the biggest craft beer cities, in the area of town with some of the greatest craft beer bars and stores).


Actually, it's a pretty decent place to be as far as craft beer goes. A number of very good breweries have established here since the Pop the Cap initiative passed: Duck-Rabbit, Lone Rider, Fullsteam, Triangle, Highland, and French Broad to name a few. New Belgium has also decided to open an east coast brewery in Asheville. We aren't California by any measure, but we're getting there.
 
2012-10-25 10:57:06 AM  

Private_Citizen: /I'm partial to Elijah Craig 18yo, but it's sold out world wide right now. I do have some barrel strength I bought when I was at HH.


How do you prefer to drink that?

Normally I do neat or maybe a few drops of "branch"

This is one of my favs:

img.thewhiskyexchange.com
Auchentoshan Three Wood

So is this:
uncrate.com 
Yamazaki These Japanese Whisky is done like a scotch.
 
2012-10-25 10:57:56 AM  

calm like a bomb: Actually, it's a pretty decent place to be as far as craft beer goes. A number of very good breweries have established here since the Pop the Cap initiative passed: Duck-Rabbit, Lone Rider, Fullsteam, Triangle, Highland, and French Broad to name a few. New Belgium has also decided to open an east coast brewery in Asheville. We aren't California by any measure, but we're getting there.


Yeah I heard about New Belgium. They are one of my favorite breweries.
 
2012-10-25 10:59:01 AM  

calm like a bomb: Freeze fermenting? Bullshiat. It isn't beer.


Yea, they just substituted distillation for an alternate process that achieves the same thing.
 
2012-10-25 10:59:05 AM  

Fuggin Bizzy: I really like Corona. You've probably heard of it - it's readily available everywhere.


Yea, isn't that the stuff that comes out of my kitchen faucet?
 
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