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(IT World)   Apple's redesigned iMac made using friction-stir welding and plasma deposition; may also include a flux capacitor   (itworld.com) divider line 91
    More: Interesting, flux capacitors, iMac, plasma, friction, deposits, stir welding  
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3375 clicks; posted to Geek » on 25 Oct 2012 at 11:53 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-25 09:30:39 AM  
This is heavy
 
2012-10-25 09:32:31 AM  
great scott
 
2012-10-25 12:02:47 PM  
Friction stir welding: AKA ultrasonic welding, two similar plastic surfaces a smooshed together in such a way that ensures there are not user serviceable parts because the user won't be able to open the damned thing without a hacksaw.

Oh, and it's nothing new WTR most remote controls.
 
2012-10-25 12:06:31 PM  
So is that the excuse they use to charge you 3 times what Dell or Asus would for a system with the same specs?
 
2012-10-25 12:08:00 PM  
FSW is cool, but it's not like it's bleeding-edge fabrication technology or anything. It's decades old. The people jizzing their pants over "Kepler graphics" is the amusing part, IMO. They made that phrase up. Unlike "plasma deposition" and "friction stir welding" it does not have a preexisting meaning to provide context.
 
2012-10-25 12:08:24 PM  

wildcardjack: Friction stir welding: AKA ultrasonic welding, two similar plastic surfaces a smooshed together in such a way that ensures there are not user serviceable parts because the user won't be able to open the damned thing without a hacksaw.

Oh, and it's nothing new WTR most remote controls.


Wankers!
 
2012-10-25 12:08:51 PM  
And the big words will once again amaze the zombie masses that will stand in line for this new intel.. errr apple computer....
 
2012-10-25 12:11:54 PM  

wildcardjack: Friction stir welding: AKA ultrasonic welding, two similar plastic surfaces a smooshed together in such a way that ensures there are not user serviceable parts because the user won't be able to open the damned thing without a hacksaw.


Shenanigans. It's the aluminum that's welded, the glass is still removable, probably via the suction cup method of the current iMacs.
 
2012-10-25 12:13:27 PM  
Is Apple's marketing department TRYING to justify everything Samsung says about iFans?

"It has FRICTION STIR welding!!!.....What does that even mean?"
imageshack.us
 
2012-10-25 12:14:05 PM  

wildcardjack: Friction stir welding: AKA ultrasonic welding, two similar plastic surfaces a smooshed together in such a way that ensures there are not user serviceable parts because the user won't be able to open the damned thing without a hacksaw.

Oh, and it's nothing new WTR most remote controls.


Yeah, only Apple-Approved repair tool is a Sawz-All.

To me, the welding is just flash with no real purpose. it may, but I don't see any benefit over what's currently being done with laptops.

I do get the fusion drive, people running VDI servers with SANs have been using this idea witha combination of SSD and SAS drives for years now. It's the next logical step, really. Your high usage files are migrated to the SSD portion while your lesser used files are moved to the SATA platters.

Just seems like something they're doing to say "LOOK HOW DIFFERENT WE ARE! WE'RE DOING CRAZY THINGS TO MAKE YOU THINK IT'S WORTH THE INSANE PROFIT MARGIN!"

Hate to say it, but Jobs probably wouldn't have done that.
 
2012-10-25 12:19:01 PM  
Even the SSD/HDD fusion drive is already being implimented notably in lower cost ultrabooks from ASUS (UX32A) and Lenovo (U410/U310). I'm sure other manufacturers are doing something similar.

The integration Apple was give with the OS is probably a differentiator but really Windows can do the same thing.
 
2012-10-25 12:20:09 PM  
Hey plasma depositions... nice. Course odds are they've been using that for a long ass time since most electronics use PVD stuff in one form or another

/works in that industry
 
2012-10-25 12:21:36 PM  
Oh come on, so they talk about their manufacturing process in their ads. They probably spent millions retooling the factory floor and want to get some marketing value out of it. Everybody hates a show-off, I guess.
 
2012-10-25 12:21:43 PM  
iMacs are already practically un-serviceable. Replacing the hard drive in one probably takes me 45 minutes or so. You have to have a suction cup to pull the glass on and off and depending on the model you'll need either a T6 screwdriver or some goddammed special bit that Apple uses. I know what I'm doing and it still takes a completely unreasonable amount of time to do anything to one.

I've made the point before that "Take it to an Apple Store" only works when you live someplace where there's an Apple store. Otherwise this is just more anti-consumer bullshiat. Not that anti-consumer bullshiat is anything new for Apple.
 
2012-10-25 12:24:11 PM  

Faddy: Even the SSD/HDD fusion drive is already being implimented notably in lower cost ultrabooks from ASUS (UX32A) and Lenovo (U410/U310). I'm sure other manufacturers are doing something similar.


No, Apple's legal team will make sure that Apple will invented it already, before Asus has the opportunity to utilize it a long time ago. It's so simple. Time is an inconvenient illusion that can just be ignored.
 
2012-10-25 12:24:12 PM  
 
2012-10-25 12:28:35 PM  
Irony:
Apple products, made by the finest Chinese slave labor sold to asshole Americans who believe in Freedom fark YEAH!
 
2012-10-25 12:28:46 PM  

likefunbutnot: iMacs are already practically un-serviceable


That's actually only a problem if your users want to upgrade parts. Most PC consumers, not just Apple users, don't upgrade parts. They buy a new computer when they want something bigger, faster or something breaks. This is why moving back to 'no user serviceable parts' just hasn't been an issue for Apple, people already acted that way. Switchers to iMacs didn't actually feel like they were giving anything up.

If you're looking to upgrade parts in your computer, you are in the minority.
 
2012-10-25 12:30:41 PM  

SMB2811: likefunbutnot: iMacs are already practically un-serviceable

That's actually only a problem if your users want to upgrade parts. Most PC consumers, not just Apple users, don't upgrade parts. They buy a new computer when they want something bigger, faster or something breaks. This is why moving back to 'no user serviceable parts' just hasn't been an issue for Apple, people already acted that way. Switchers to iMacs didn't actually feel like they were giving anything up.

If you're looking to upgrade parts in your computer, you are in the minority.


Your fail began in your first assumption, and invalidated everything thereafter.
 
2012-10-25 12:40:49 PM  
Fusion Drive- Already been to market for a while. They just cranked up the numbers a little.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148837

Oh, and they at the very least partially copied the name from another drive/storage solution

http://www.fusionio.com/products/iodrive/

Friction-stir welding- Been around since 91. Not a huge advance in any fashion for them to use it. Pretty simple stuff.

Kepler grahics- Thats nVidia's name for the GPU core Apple choose to use. They didn't invent shiat here. They just reused nVidia's name.

Plasma deposition-
Again, not something they invented. But it is a really nifty way to make the coatings etc they need super thin. At least this one isn't all hype. 


Over all it's just them implementing some techniques with fancy names and having a nerdgasm. All for a PC that you can't replace the HD without removing the screen.
 
2012-10-25 12:55:00 PM  

lappyx86: Fusion Drive- Already been to market for a while. They just cranked up the numbers a little.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148837


Why all the butthurt that Apple is doing something new?

Apple does use a portion of the SSD as a temporary read/write cache as is common with hybrid disks, but unlike PC's it doesn't stop there.

Apple takes the SSD and the spinning disk and makes them look like one drive to the OS. Files are physically moved between the roomy but slow spinning disk and the more cramped but faster SSD based on how frequently they are used. You get to use the space on both devices simultaneously, instead of just treating the SSD as a cache with copies of files on the spinning disk.

People try to do this manually on Windows by setting up junction points between the OS on the SSD and their spinning disk, but some Windows software just doesn't work properly with junction points.
 
2012-10-25 01:11:04 PM  

FunkyBlue: wildcardjack: Friction stir welding: AKA ultrasonic welding, two similar plastic surfaces a smooshed together in such a way that ensures there are not user serviceable parts because the user won't be able to open the damned thing without a hacksaw.

Oh, and it's nothing new WTR most remote controls.

Yeah, only Apple-Approved repair tool is a Sawz-All.

To me, the welding is just flash with no real purpose. it may, but I don't see any benefit over what's currently being done with laptops.

I do get the fusion drive, people running VDI servers with SANs have been using this idea witha combination of SSD and SAS drives for years now. It's the next logical step, really. Your high usage files are migrated to the SSD portion while your lesser used files are moved to the SATA platters.

Just seems like something they're doing to say "LOOK HOW DIFFERENT WE ARE! WE'RE DOING CRAZY THINGS TO MAKE YOU THINK IT'S WORTH THE INSANE PROFIT MARGIN!"

Hate to say it, but Jobs probably wouldn't have done that.


Funny, if Jobs was still alive, people would be blaming him for this. The iHaters are so eager to parrot whatever gets pumped into their empty heads.
 
2012-10-25 01:12:15 PM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Your fail began in your first assumption, and invalidated everything thereafter.


Why is that? I work at a consumer-level repair shop, and that's pretty much exactly how most people react. They have a serious virus infection, we charge 150$ to remove them, a lot of people just say "skip it" and buy a 300 dollar PC to replace it. New parts, no virus, start off right.
 
2012-10-25 01:13:04 PM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: SMB2811: likefunbutnot: iMacs are already practically un-serviceable

That's actually only a problem if your users want to upgrade parts. Most PC consumers, not just Apple users, don't upgrade parts. They buy a new computer when they want something bigger, faster or something breaks. This is why moving back to 'no user serviceable parts' just hasn't been an issue for Apple, people already acted that way. Switchers to iMacs didn't actually feel like they were giving anything up.

If you're looking to upgrade parts in your computer, you are in the minority.

Your fail began in your first assumption, and invalidated everything thereafter.


How is that a fail? You can argue with his premise - "most users don't want to upgrade parts" - but his conclusion logically follows from that premise - "if users don't want to upgrade parts, then having non-user serviceable parts isn't a problem."
I think your claim of fail is the real fail.
 
2012-10-25 01:13:43 PM  

BullBearMS: lappyx86: Fusion Drive- Already been to market for a while. They just cranked up the numbers a little.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148837

Why all the butthurt that Apple is doing something new?

Apple does use a portion of the SSD as a temporary read/write cache as is common with hybrid disks, but unlike PC's it doesn't stop there.

Apple takes the SSD and the spinning disk and makes them look like one drive to the OS. Files are physically moved between the roomy but slow spinning disk and the more cramped but faster SSD based on how frequently they are used. You get to use the space on both devices simultaneously, instead of just treating the SSD as a cache with copies of files on the spinning disk.


You think hybrid drives mount as multiple volumes by default or something? Don't they all do caching? Link
 
2012-10-25 01:16:49 PM  

Theaetetus: How is that a fail? You can argue with his premise - "most users don't want to upgrade parts" - but his conclusion logically follows from that premise - "if users don't want to upgrade parts, then having non-user serviceable parts isn't a problem."
I think your claim of fail is the real fail.


It does not follow. A user might want to perform repair or replacement rather than an upgrade. That's why the term is "user-serviceable" not "user-upgradable."
 
2012-10-25 01:16:50 PM  

Theaetetus: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: SMB2811: likefunbutnot: iMacs are already practically un-serviceable

That's actually only a problem if your users want to upgrade parts. Most PC consumers, not just Apple users, don't upgrade parts. They buy a new computer when they want something bigger, faster or something breaks. This is why moving back to 'no user serviceable parts' just hasn't been an issue for Apple, people already acted that way. Switchers to iMacs didn't actually feel like they were giving anything up.

If you're looking to upgrade parts in your computer, you are in the minority.

Your fail began in your first assumption, and invalidated everything thereafter.

How is that a fail? You can argue with his premise - "most users don't want to upgrade parts" - but his conclusion logically follows from that premise - "if users don't want to upgrade parts, then having non-user serviceable parts isn't a problem."
I think your claim of fail is the real fail.


Upgrade parts != replacement parts. His entire argument was based on the premise that people only wanted to open up their systems for upgrades. Repairs are not the same thing.
 
2012-10-25 01:20:16 PM  

ProfessorOhki: BullBearMS: lappyx86: Fusion Drive- Already been to market for a while. They just cranked up the numbers a little.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148837

Why all the butthurt that Apple is doing something new?

Apple does use a portion of the SSD as a temporary read/write cache as is common with hybrid disks, but unlike PC's it doesn't stop there.

Apple takes the SSD and the spinning disk and makes them look like one drive to the OS. Files are physically moved between the roomy but slow spinning disk and the more cramped but faster SSD based on how frequently they are used. You get to use the space on both devices simultaneously, instead of just treating the SSD as a cache with copies of files on the spinning disk.

You think hybrid drives mount as multiple volumes by default or something? Don't they all do caching? Link


Apple is not just doing caching here.

What they are doing is similar to what happens in enterprise level systems. Frequently used files are being physically moved to faster, more expensive storage. Infrequently used files are being physically moved to slower, cheaper storage.

Both devices are being utilized at the same time, while to the user, it appears that there is only one disk.
 
2012-10-25 01:25:39 PM  

BullBearMS: Apple is not just doing caching here.

What they are doing is similar to what happens in enterprise level systems. Frequently used files are being physically moved to faster, more expensive storage. Infrequently used files are being physically moved to slower, cheaper storage.


You're right, caching is the wrong word because it's not duplicated, it's moved. That was my mistake - yes, it's already done by hybrid drives. Link
 
2012-10-25 01:28:38 PM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Theaetetus: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: SMB2811: likefunbutnot: iMacs are already practically un-serviceable

That's actually only a problem if your users want to upgrade parts. Most PC consumers, not just Apple users, don't upgrade parts. They buy a new computer when they want something bigger, faster or something breaks. This is why moving back to 'no user serviceable parts' just hasn't been an issue for Apple, people already acted that way. Switchers to iMacs didn't actually feel like they were giving anything up.

If you're looking to upgrade parts in your computer, you are in the minority.

Your fail began in your first assumption, and invalidated everything thereafter.

How is that a fail? You can argue with his premise - "most users don't want to upgrade parts" - but his conclusion logically follows from that premise - "if users don't want to upgrade parts, then having non-user serviceable parts isn't a problem."
I think your claim of fail is the real fail.

Upgrade parts != replacement parts. His entire argument was based on the premise that people only wanted to open up their systems for upgrades. Repairs are not the same thing.


Except that other than fans, most repairs are also upgrades. 80GB hard drive died? Time to slap in a 250. Etc.
 
2012-10-25 01:30:24 PM  

ProfessorOhki: BullBearMS: Apple is not just doing caching here.

What they are doing is similar to what happens in enterprise level systems. Frequently used files are being physically moved to faster, more expensive storage. Infrequently used files are being physically moved to slower, cheaper storage.

You're right, caching is the wrong word because it's not duplicated, it's moved. That was my mistake - yes, it's already done by hybrid drives. Link


No. No it isn't.

Apple's Fusion Drive does not appear to function like an SSD-backed disk cache, but rather seems more like a file-level implementation of a feature that has existed for some time in big enterprise disk arrays: automatic tiering.

Most big disk arrays have different types of storage-some slow spinning disk, some faster spinning disk, and some solid state storage-and some have the ability to monitor what data is being accessed the most and can automatically move that data to a faster tier of disk as needed. These features typically operate at the block level, below the files, and can be done on large or small chunks of data, depending on what's hot and what's not. Auto-tiering also includes the ability to take data that is no longer in demand, or no longer "hot" and demote it down off of fast disk and onto slower stuff. In this way, a file that doesn't get accessed very often might be stored on slow SATA disks, but if a hundred people need to open it repeatedly over a short period of time, it will get pulled up and kept on SSD until it's not needed anymore.

Based on Schiller's explanation, Fusion Drive sounds similar. In a caching solution, like Intel's, files live on the hard disk drive and are temporarily mirrored to the SSD cache as needed. In an enterprise auto-tiering situation, and with Fusion Drive, the data is actually moved from one tier to another, rather than only being temporarily cached there.
 
2012-10-25 01:30:43 PM  
They also do totally cool things like gluing the battery in place and then soldering the RAM to the board. I can't wait for the day they make the iDesk and require you to place your iDevice on or the unit wont boot.
 
2012-10-25 01:30:44 PM  

ProfessorOhki: BullBearMS: Apple is not just doing caching here.

What they are doing is similar to what happens in enterprise level systems. Frequently used files are being physically moved to faster, more expensive storage. Infrequently used files are being physically moved to slower, cheaper storage.

You're right, caching is the wrong word because it's not duplicated, it's moved. That was my mistake - yes, it's already done by hybrid drives. Link


I stand corrected, it's automatic-tiering at disk-level. Still, it's not new.
 
2012-10-25 01:37:39 PM  

ProfessorOhki: ProfessorOhki: BullBearMS: Apple is not just doing caching here.

What they are doing is similar to what happens in enterprise level systems. Frequently used files are being physically moved to faster, more expensive storage. Infrequently used files are being physically moved to slower, cheaper storage.

You're right, caching is the wrong word because it's not duplicated, it's moved. That was my mistake - yes, it's already done by hybrid drives. Link

I stand corrected, it's automatic-tiering at disk-level. Still, it's not new.


Name one other Personal Computer doing this then.

What's up with this enormous butthurt over Apple doing something new?
 
2012-10-25 01:43:51 PM  
MY GOD, APPLE HAS INTRODUCED THE HYBRID DRIVE!!! - OMG, it's farking amazing!!!@!@

Nevermind the Microsoft and Samsung introduced it 7-years ago.
 
2012-10-25 01:48:51 PM  

BullBearMS: ProfessorOhki: ProfessorOhki: BullBearMS: Apple is not just doing caching here.

What they are doing is similar to what happens in enterprise level systems. Frequently used files are being physically moved to faster, more expensive storage. Infrequently used files are being physically moved to slower, cheaper storage.

You're right, caching is the wrong word because it's not duplicated, it's moved. That was my mistake - yes, it's already done by hybrid drives. Link

I stand corrected, it's automatic-tiering at disk-level. Still, it's not new.

Name one other Personal Computer doing this then.

What's up with this enormous butthurt over Apple doing something new?


So, if I make a PC and integrate a clock into the case, I invented the clock? You know, you're right, sticking it in a PC is new. Alright, if it matters that much to you, "Apple applies existing technology to consumer market before other integrators! Changes everything!"
 
2012-10-25 01:52:47 PM  

ProfessorOhki: BullBearMS: ProfessorOhki: ProfessorOhki: BullBearMS: Apple is not just doing caching here.

What they are doing is similar to what happens in enterprise level systems. Frequently used files are being physically moved to faster, more expensive storage. Infrequently used files are being physically moved to slower, cheaper storage.

You're right, caching is the wrong word because it's not duplicated, it's moved. That was my mistake - yes, it's already done by hybrid drives. Link

I stand corrected, it's automatic-tiering at disk-level. Still, it's not new.

Name one other Personal Computer doing this then.

What's up with this enormous butthurt over Apple doing something new?

So, if I make a PC and integrate a clock into the case, I invented the clock? You know, you're right, sticking it in a PC is new. Alright, if it matters that much to you, "Apple applies existing technology to consumer market before other integrators! Changes everything!"


Do you have a source for Apple claiming to have invented hybrid drives? All I see are a lot of people complaining that Apple shouldn't say they invented it, but no evidence that they actually did say that.
 
2012-10-25 01:55:56 PM  

ProfessorOhki: So, if I make a PC and integrate a clock into the case, I invented the clock? You know, you're right, sticking it in a PC is new. Alright, if it matters that much to you, "Apple applies existing technology to consumer market before other integrators! Changes everything!"


Using a tiny amount of Flash memory as a disk cache was a perfectly fine solution when Flash was super expensive.

However, that's not the case any more, is it?

This solution acknowledges the modern reality that all decent PC's will come with an SSD large enough for the OS and some files, but you're still going to need spinning disks to store large amounts of data.

Having the PC automatically manage what is stored where based on frequency of use instead of having the user do so manually is a superior solution, and I'm not quite sure why you're so butthurt that Apple did it first.
 
2012-10-25 01:56:57 PM  
so the put a hybrid drive like the one i've had in my laptop for the last 2 years into the imac?

also, whoever let the marketing people write this should be shot, the BS levels are too damn high
 
2012-10-25 02:00:49 PM  
Subby needs to submit an story along the lines of, "Apple does something new in the PC space. Intense butthurt ensues."
 
2012-10-25 02:08:34 PM  
So, it more or less sounds like the drive I linked to just implemented at the OS level instead of at the drive level. Still, not that impressive.

Also, not butthurt. Just don't like people being deceived by the SJRDF.
 
2012-10-25 02:09:01 PM  

MrSteve007: MY GOD, APPLE HAS INTRODUCED THE HYBRID DRIVE!!! - OMG, it's farking amazing!!!@!@

Nevermind the Microsoft and Samsung introduced it 7-years ago.


if Microsoft spends R&D on something and not make any money, you can guarantee Apple can spend a huge % less money and make money hand-over-fist on it

efficiency, how does it work
 
2012-10-25 02:09:25 PM  

BullBearMS: Having the PC automatically manage what is stored where based on frequency of use instead of having the user do so manually is a superior solution, and I'm not quite sure why you're so butthurt that Apple did it first.


You mean like Readyboost - introduced in Vista? And how they implement SuperFetch technology, initially via readyboost and then in NAND enabled hard drives?

It's cute watching the reality distortion field in effect. Windows has been doing this for 3 generations now, caching and storing data on faster drives, based on usage patterns and performance boosts.
 
2012-10-25 02:30:28 PM  

lappyx86: Fusion Drive- Already been to market for a while. They just cranked up the numbers a little.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148837

Oh, and they at the very least partially copied the name from another drive/storage solution

http://www.fusionio.com/products/iodrive/

Friction-stir welding- Been around since 91. Not a huge advance in any fashion for them to use it. Pretty simple stuff.

Kepler grahics- Thats nVidia's name for the GPU core Apple choose to use. They didn't invent shiat here. They just reused nVidia's name.

Plasma deposition- Again, not something they invented. But it is a really nifty way to make the coatings etc they need super thin. At least this one isn't all hype. 


Over all it's just them implementing some techniques with fancy names and having a nerdgasm. All for a PC that you can't replace the HD without removing the screen.


All good stuff. What Apple needs to do is to start offering Windows 7.
 
2012-10-25 02:34:29 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: Irony:
Apple products, made by the finest Chinese slave labor sold to asshole Americans who believe in Freedom fark YEAH!


And your computer you typed that bullshiat on was made only by the most skilled of American laborers right?
 
2012-10-25 02:35:42 PM  
I farking hate their press junkets.

That being said, how do you have a workstation-grade computer without an optical drive?
 
2012-10-25 02:41:42 PM  

MrSteve007: BullBearMS: Having the PC automatically manage what is stored where based on frequency of use instead of having the user do so manually is a superior solution, and I'm not quite sure why you're so butthurt that Apple did it first.

You mean like Readyboost - introduced in Vista? And how they implement SuperFetch technology, initially via readyboost and then in NAND enabled hard drives?

It's cute watching the reality distortion field in effect. Windows has been doing this for 3 generations now, caching and storing data on faster drives, based on usage patterns and performance boosts.


Exactly readyboost has been doing this for years.

http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Desktop-Caching-SSD-SDSSDRC-032G-G26/dp / B008U3038I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1351190451&sr=8-1&keywords=sandisk+r eadycache

That drive and software suit is exactly what Apple is now doing.
 
2012-10-25 02:47:12 PM  

BullBearMS: wildcardjack: Friction stir welding: AKA ultrasonic welding, two similar plastic surfaces

You went from zero to fail so quickly.

They use the process to join pieces of Aluminum together without an ugly weld.

Friction-stir welding (FSW) is a solid-state joining process (the metal is not melted) and is used when the original metal characteristics must remain unchanged as much as possible. It mechanically intermixes the two pieces of metal at the place of the join, then softens them so the metal can be fused using mechanical pressure, much like joining clay, dough, or plasticine. It is primarily used on aluminium, and most often on large pieces that cannot be easily heat-treated after welding to recover temper characteristics.

It was invented and experimentally proven at The Welding Institute UK in December 1991. TWI holds patents on the process


My company also holds patents on FSW. I wonder how long until Apple sues us.
 
2012-10-25 02:52:01 PM  

BullBearMS: Having the PC automatically manage what is stored where based on frequency of use instead of having the user do so manually is a superior solution, and I'm not quite sure why you're so butthurt that Apple did it first.


No, I'm preemptively butthurt that I'll have to listen to people blather about how Apple was the first to think of hybrid drives, tiered storage, and probably SSDs in general. I'm fairly neutral on Apple itself outside of it's somewhat new-found love of litigation, but the fans drive me nuts.

And to be honest, this really isn't hugely useful. The intelligent block placement is done in hybrid drives already. Like you say, the difference is that with this configuration, you get the summed capacity rather than just the capacity of the HDD. It has the same performance boost as a drive with the SSD as a cache would have, but it has a performance loss when it decides it needs to move something back to the HDD side something because it can't simply delete it from the SSD, it has to actually do a copy. The gain from not keeping two copies of the file? 128GB of 3128GB - that's, what, a 4.1% gain in capacity?

Interesting question though, when the SSD fails (far before the HDD hardware will), you'll have a hard time predicting which files you'll lose. Say you install a large program and 99% of it ends up on the HDD and 1% of the SDD - SDD failure = no go. That's at the file level, what if it's done at the block level? Losing a header from a massive file would lovely too. And of course, when the SSD wears out... you won't be able to replace it yourself. I get what it's going for, but the more I think about it, the less of a good idea it seems like for PCs.
 
2012-10-25 02:52:13 PM  

TNel: MrSteve007: BullBearMS: Having the PC automatically manage what is stored where based on frequency of use instead of having the user do so manually is a superior solution, and I'm not quite sure why you're so butthurt that Apple did it first.

You mean like Readyboost - introduced in Vista? And how they implement SuperFetch technology, initially via readyboost and then in NAND enabled hard drives?

It's cute watching the reality distortion field in effect. Windows has been doing this for 3 generations now, caching and storing data on faster drives, based on usage patterns and performance boosts.

Exactly readyboost has been doing this for years.

http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Desktop-Caching-SSD-SDSSDRC-032G-G26/dp / B008U3038I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1351190451&sr=8-1&keywords=sandisk+r eadycache

That drive and software suit is exactly what Apple is now doing.


No. Not it isn't.

Let's try this again:

Apple's Fusion Drive does not appear to function like an SSD-backed disk cache, but rather seems more like a file-level implementation of a feature that has existed for some time in big enterprise disk arrays: automatic tiering.

Most big disk arrays have different types of storage-some slow spinning disk, some faster spinning disk, and some solid state storage-and some have the ability to monitor what data is being accessed the most and can automatically move that data to a faster tier of disk as needed. These features typically operate at the block level, below the files, and can be done on large or small chunks of data, depending on what's hot and what's not. Auto-tiering also includes the ability to take data that is no longer in demand, or no longer "hot" and demote it down off of fast disk and onto slower stuff. In this way, a file that doesn't get accessed very often might be stored on slow SATA disks, but if a hundred people need to open it repeatedly over a short period of time, it will get pulled up and kept on SSD until it's not needed anymore.

Based on Schiller's explanation, Fusion Drive sounds similar. In a caching solution, like Intel's, files live on the hard disk drive and are temporarily mirrored to the SSD cache as needed. In an enterprise auto-tiering situation, and with Fusion Drive, the data is actually moved from one tier to another, rather than only being temporarily cached there.
 
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