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(CNN)   Air Force discharges single mother for getting pregnant. Well, to be fair, fighter aircraft don't have baby seats   (cnn.com) divider line 50
    More: Obvious, USAF, single-parent, Catholic University, Catholic Faith, Marquette  
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10617 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Oct 2012 at 7:05 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-10-25 06:11:21 AM
9 votes:
Subby: Air Force discharges single mother for getting pregnant.

FTFA: Weeks before being commissioned as a military officer, Edmonds discovered that she was pregnant.

One of these things is not like the other.

/Sorry, lady. You don't get to play by a different set of rules from everybody else in the military.
2012-10-25 07:31:41 AM
6 votes:
FTA: Abortion was never an option, she said, because of her Catholic faith and her personal beliefs.

I'm not Catholic, but I'm pretty sure that getting knocked up before getting hitched doesn't jibe with the Catholic faith.
2012-10-25 06:19:15 AM
5 votes:
But they were wrong. Citing a contract she signed in 2007 when she enrolled in ROTC at age 18, the Air Force said she committed a fraud by not reporting a change in her medical condition, as indicated in the contract.

Read. Your. farking. Contract.

Is the policy fair to single parents? No. Is it fair to their children and the U.S. taxpayer? Yes.
2012-10-25 07:27:52 AM
4 votes:
So, having an abortion is against her religious beliefs? Fine. What about having a bastard child? No qualms about that? What about lying to your employer about your medical condition (against the contract)? That's OK for you?
2012-10-25 06:44:20 AM
4 votes:

Fark It: ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Fark It: ThatGuyFromTheInternet: It's not like the Air Force tells people these things, or she could've ever done anything to prevent pregnancy.

Or just married the baby-daddy prior to enlisting....

Does it even have to be the biological dad? I doubt the USAF is gonna go all Maury Povich on the matter.

I don't think it does, they just want somebody to hand the kid(s) off to when they send you off to do something dangerous, like deploy or pilot an F-22.


Plus, an Air Force officer should really have the judgement skills to know when to pull out of tight spots or eject, flying or not.
2012-10-25 07:46:30 AM
3 votes:
I'm glad to see the common sense is thick and sturdy here. After reading wave after shuddering wave of observation gushing forth from the collective FARK loin my faith has been restored. In face, my excitement about scrolling the comments up and down, up and down, and up and down, has actually left me a little breathless and a little sleepy.


That and the idiot "Catholic" girl who couldn't keep her knees together is too stupid to get a free ride in the Air Force. Seriously--in this day and age if you get knocked up it's either because you're retarded or did it on purpose.
2012-10-25 07:40:51 AM
3 votes:
Spent 21 years in the Marines. A huge percentage of our woman Marines used to get pregnant either right before or during deployments. So a unit trains together like it should, then rotates overseas with brand new replacements to fill the holes. Now that I'm out I can say it: very, very few women pull their weight in the military.
2012-10-25 07:21:51 AM
3 votes:
"If Ms. Edmonds had reported her pregnancy she would have been placed on medical recheck status until she gave birth. At that time she would have been been able to commission if she were not a single parent, for example, if she were married, or had given the child up for adoption."


cdn.ebaumsworld.com
It's all there, black and white, clear as crystal! You got pregnant! You have a kid that the Air Force now has to worry about, so you get nothing! You lose! Good day, ma'am!
2012-10-25 06:27:01 AM
3 votes:

Fark It: ThatGuyFromTheInternet: It's not like the Air Force tells people these things, or she could've ever done anything to prevent pregnancy.

Or just married the baby-daddy prior to enlisting....


Does it even have to be the biological dad? I doubt the USAF is gonna go all Maury Povich on the matter.
2012-10-25 08:25:50 AM
2 votes:
She's an officer and a nurse, you idiots.
Let her serve or STFU.

/Nothing to see here.
2012-10-25 07:44:35 AM
2 votes:

Tat'dGreaser: Sgt Otter: It's sounds a little different, but involuntary discharges for single parents without a viable Family Care Plan aren't that uncommon.

I'm in the process of getting rid of one of my soldiers because of this. Every Friday before drill something is wrong with her kid. One drill she realized Friday night around 8pm that her kid needed surgery. Not emergency surgery, routine.


Generation Pill Popper isn't all that bright.
2012-10-25 07:38:43 AM
2 votes:
In other news, you can`t expect your life before having a baby to be exactly the same as your life after having a baby.

A lot of people do not realise this.
2012-10-25 07:38:11 AM
2 votes:
The military should not be a job corps for single parents. Heck even the married parents are a problem.

If a service memeber gets pregnant she is non-deployable for at least 9 months and depending on MOS/AFSC may be unable to do the job she was trained for, at much expense to the tax payer. That is a big chunk out a four year enlistment. Imagine if there are multiple pregnancies during her tour of duty.. Others end up carrying her share of the load as well as their own and it is not as if the military can hire a temp.

Service memebers who get preganant should be discharged with loss of all VA benefits. Motherhood and the military profession are not compatible. If you try to do both either the kids or the service gets short changed, usually both

/also against military personnel below the pay grad eof E-4 with less than four years service being allowed to marry.
2012-10-25 07:31:58 AM
2 votes:

Kredal: So, having an abortion is against her religious beliefs? Fine. What about having a bastard child? No qualms about that? What about lying to your employer about your medical condition (against the contract)? That's OK for you?


Are you implying someone should actually have to apply their ethics across the board and not just when/where it's convenient or advantageous? That's crazy talk.
2012-10-25 07:23:24 AM
2 votes:
.Gotta side with the military here. She failed to live up to her responsibilities.
2012-10-25 06:19:34 AM
2 votes:
It's not like the Air Force tells people these things, or she could've ever done anything to prevent pregnancy.
2012-10-26 06:52:36 AM
1 votes:

drp: We had a Marine who shot himself in the leg to avoid deploying. We took him anyway (over my objections - I didn't think taking a crazy person along was wise). He didn't get a weapon. He just filled sandbags and did garbage pickup every day so better Marines could spend less time doing those menial tasks.


There has to be some sort of rule or regulation against deploying soldiers if they aren't considered mentally fit enough to carry a firearm. I know someone who did deploy without a weapon to Kosovo because he failed his psych exam. Eventually a general found out about it and publicly chewed out our first sergeant, and that weaponless soldier was on his way back home the next day.
2012-10-25 10:19:11 AM
1 votes:
"Hey mom, will you raise my kid for me? It's really getting in the way of what I want to do."
fark her and her stupid choices.
2012-10-25 10:15:23 AM
1 votes:
I think it's time to leave this thread... No one's reading anything anyway, except for the bountiful troll bait.
2012-10-25 09:53:13 AM
1 votes:

pciszek: Women who "pop" birth control pills are not the problem here.


I agree with this statement. Sometimes very young women don't know where to go to get such medical services. My grandmother was the school nurse at a military school a very long time ago. There a young lady only had to state that her periods were irregular and my grandmother would arrange a medical appointment and walk them through the process of getting put on birth control. If a young lady wanted, Granny would go to the appointment with the young lady and hold the young ladys' hand during her first gynecological exam. Nurses are like that. I suspect the military and military schools still have lots of nurses that would act just as my grandmother did if a young female cadet decided she was ready for "regular periods".
2012-10-25 09:51:05 AM
1 votes:

HotIgneous Intruder: Englebert Slaptyback: HotIgneous Intruder

Why the fark would she want to be on the hook for more than $93K (plus interest, without a doubt)?


The point (subtle, I know) was that it looks like she planned to get the education but not to be on the hook for the money.

Things are seldom as they appear.
Because she wasn't told that she'd be on the hook multiple times before she signed the contract, didn't understand that while she read the contract, and during her entire tenure as a cadet, right? She knew she would be on the hook if she screwed up, but she didn't expect that the Air Force would do something so idiotic as toss her for fulfilling her biological purpose.

/Authoritarian girl-haters are cretins. Get off my planet.


Hey, jackass, we aren't hating on her for being a woman and having a kid. We are discussing how this woman failed the terms of her contract and is being released because of it. Read the freakin' contract. If she had told them THE EXACT MOMENT she had found out instead of waiting months AFTER she had been comissioned, they probably would havebeen lenient and accomodating. But she didn't. She screwed up, and now she pays the price.
2012-10-25 09:40:18 AM
1 votes:
There's so much fail - to borrow the kids' term - in this article.

"Abortion was never an option, she said, because of her Catholic faith and her personal beliefs."

You know what else is wrong according to Catholicism? Pre-marital sex, and having children outside of marriage. Also, lying to the officers who are mentoring you as you enter the Air Force goes against some pretty basic Catholic values. She said, "OK, I don't think I have to tell anybody [I'm pregnant]. I'm scared now." Because you're afraid of the consequences, it's okay to lie? Wow...Someone was babied a bit too much growing up.

"Thirteen weeks into her pregnancy, she was sworn in by her father as a second lieutenant and started making plans to go to Virginia to begin her military service."

So, she didn't just lie, she lied for weeks and weeks just hoping that they'd let her skate by because...well why not? She's a cute little white girl why should she have to take responsibility for breaking her agreement? Responsibility is leik super scary, so it's best to just pretend that it doesn't exist.

"It further stated that her file contained eight forms in which she was briefed on the medical change reporting requirement. Edmonds said no one ever brought the issue up during her subsequent counseling sessions while she was enrolled at Marquette."

Oh, right they should have known she was a liar and kept reminding her that she agreed not to get pregnant so that maybe she would have been too scared to get pregnant and lie. Obviously it's everyone's fault except her own.

Man she would have made a great officer.

Okay, I'm gonna stop there because I shouldn't care this much about something that affects me not at all. Also, because I realize how bitter and terrible I am.
2012-10-25 09:23:50 AM
1 votes:

Oblio13: very, very few women pull their weight


In the western world the percentage that pull their weight and aren't bull lesbians is close to 0.

Never hire a woman of childbearing age, they will ALWAYS get pregnant and expect you to pay for it. If you have to hire a woman find one over 45 and for bonus points is divorced or a widow and has no dependent children. Why a woman without a husband? Because then you know she needs the money and won't complain as much.
2012-10-25 09:20:10 AM
1 votes:

jeffowl: So, she's a good Catholic when it comes to dealing with pregnancy, but not when it came to getting pregnant in the first place.


This never made sense to me--if you are willing to commit the sin of fornication, why not commit the sin of birth control at the same time so as to not have to worry about the possibility of the sin of abortion later?
2012-10-25 09:15:38 AM
1 votes:

omnimancer28: HotIgneous Intruder: SnarfVader: /Sorry, lady. You don't get to play by a different set of rules from everybody else in the military.

Yes, I've seen lots of pregnant males in the Air Force nurse corps.

/You're realize that you're saying that pregnant males should be treated the same as pregnant females.

No, he is saying that single fathers are treated the exact same as single mothers. If a father has sole custody of a child through divorce or his spouse's death, he would get the boot just as quickly. (several posters have already mentioned examples of this)


There is hardly a shortage of single parents in the military. The caveats are:

- you can't enlist or be commissioned as a single parent (why are people still talking about her "enlisting" in this thread when she was an ROTC student)
- if you find yourself in the single-parent boat after you're already in, you better have a Family Care Plan: you must have a local/short term, and a long term provider who will be able to take the kids at a moment's notice if you have short notice orders.
- this applies to military-to-military married couples, also quite common.

Often, in the military, it's easier to stay in than to get in. It seems unfair, but it makes sense from the taxpayer's point of view. You don't want to let people in who have significant health issues, multiple dependents, won't be world-wide deployable. However, there's more leeway once a person is in, as there is already a considerable investment of resources in training, security clearances, etc., and often considerable expertise that would be lost. 

Also... NO way she didn't know this. Or know that she had to report any changes in her medical status. Give me a break.

In my 11th year in the AF.
2012-10-25 09:11:10 AM
1 votes:

HotIgneous Intruder: She has wanted this career all her life and the motivation that comes with that desire is incalculably valuable to the service and to the nation.


Without pretending to have omniscience into her true motivations and desires, it's safe to say from the visible facts she had acted with neither the intelligence or integrity to achieve those goals. Both are job requirements, the position isn't an entitlement.
2012-10-25 09:10:42 AM
1 votes:
Well, to be fair, fighter aircraft don't have baby seats

Then where did Bush sit?
2012-10-25 08:55:03 AM
1 votes:

HotIgneous Intruder: She's an officer and a nurse, you idiots.
Let her serve or STFU.

/Nothing to see here.


She is a nurse? A trained medical professional who does not understand how to avoid pregnancy?

Air Force is better off without her.
2012-10-25 08:44:31 AM
1 votes:
I'm female. I'm a Mom. I consider myself to be fairly feminist. And I am absolutely okay with the decision to dismiss this young lady from the military. A child does not raise itself. Any single parent, whether it is a single Mom or a Dad who is a widower, for instance; should be released from military duty so that child can have a parent.

If an individual feels strongly that military service is more important in his or her life than parenting his or her child, then that individual should place the child for adoption. The child might be adopted by his or her grandparents rather than placed with an entirely new family, but custody of the child should be transferred to someone who is willing to do the work of parenting the child.

The well-meaning, but misguided attorney representing this young lady does not fully understand what the consequences could be should she win this case. Imagine not just unwed parents, but individuals who have lost a spouse facing not the privilege, but the requirement to remain in the military and thus being deprived of the right to parent his or her child. I feel confident that it would be a very short walk from allowing single parents to requiring single parents to remain in the military. This young lady and her attorney think they are advocating for womens' rights. Really, they are advocating for the destruction of parental rights for both men and women. This young woman and her attorney are probably good, decent people with good intentions, but they are wrong and, per my grandmother, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
2012-10-25 08:39:59 AM
1 votes:

Fark It: Bender The Offender: Oblio13: Spent 21 years in the Marines. A huge percentage of our woman Marines used to get pregnant either right before or during deployments. So a unit trains together like it should, then rotates overseas with brand new replacements to fill the holes. Now that I'm out I can say it: very, very few women pull their weight in the military.

My mom spent 24 years in the military, retired as a sgt. maj. She deployed around the world. She was an outstanding soldier and she joined as a single mother. I deplored to saudi and kosovo with female soldiers and pilots. Not one of them had their tours shortened for pregnancy. We did lose a few men to "stress" though. Just because youre a misogynistic douche doesn't mean reality reflects your "he man woman hater's club" mentality.

As far as the article goes, this woman is dishonest. She attempted to defraud the american people and manipulate the air force, now that she is being revealed for the morally bankrupt person she is, she is attempting to manipulate public opinion by turning a "you dishonestly violated a contract" situation into a "ZOMG the government wants to force me to have ABORTIONS". She has no honor, I hope she does jail time.

"My personal anecdote is clearly more relevant then your personal anecdote!"


In my experience it wasn't that women could not handle the military, it was that men could not deal with the women in the military. Things like a guy standing near the front of a 45 minute long chow line sees a random woman walking past and offers to let her jump in line ahead of him. He'd almost never make that offer to a guy, but who could blame her for taking the offer, but the guy way in the back is mad at her for getting a shortcut. Something heavy needs to be moved? Some guy will offer to do it and every other guy around accuses her of not pulling her weight...but trust me, some guy offers to pick up a 100lb safety relief valve for me, I'm letting him. I did a rough job in a rough environment where there were no women. There were about 20 guys working there and 3 of us did the vast majority of the low level jobs while you could find at least 6 people sitting under a vent at any given time of the work day.

There will always be slackers and workers and I suspect the ratio is about the same for women as it is for men.

tldr: Lazy farkers are everywhere
2012-10-25 08:34:04 AM
1 votes:

indylaw


There's a difference between saying "I knew there was a policy against being a single mom, so I didn't tell them right away," which is what she is cited as saying, and "I know that Paragraph 39, subclause g of that contract I signed five years ago specifically states, and I quote, I must immediately report that I am a pregnant single mother to the Air Force etc. etc." and I decided not to do so because fark Uncle Sam, that's why.

I bet there's stuff in your lease agreement or mortgage that you don't have devoted to memory. If you fail to fulfill those conditions, you probably breached a contract, but you didn't commit "a fraud".

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a commonsense policy not to have single mothers in the armed services. I just object to the characterization of this as "fraud." Fraud is when you knowingly communicate a falsehood in order to bilk someone out of some benefit that you wouldn't have received if you had not told them a lie. Negligent misrepresentation? Maybe.


You might not have experienced this, but all of the requirements for receiving (and keeping) ROTC scholarship money are made abundantly clear to freshman cadets. The change in status clause would not have been buried in "Paragraph 39, subclause g"; it would have been right up front.

Re-read my last paragraph about the amazing coincidence. It would be very easy to make the plausible case that she always intended to get pregnant post-school/pre-serve and thus the original signing of the contract was indeed fraudulent, since she never intended to fulfill her side of the bargain but wanted to receive the benefit of the funding.
2012-10-25 08:29:02 AM
1 votes:

Bender The Offender: david_gaithersburg: Bender The Offender: Oblio13: Spent 21 years in the Marines. A huge percentage of our woman Marines used to get pregnant either right before or during deployments. So a unit trains together like it should, then rotates overseas with brand new replacements to fill the holes. Now that I'm out I can say it: very, very few women pull their weight in the military.

My mom spent 24 years in the military, retired as a sgt. maj. She deployed around the world. She was an outstanding soldier and she joined as a single mother. I deplored to saudi and kosovo with female soldiers and pilots. Not one of them had their tours shortened for pregnancy. We did lose a few men to "stress" though. Just because youre a misogynistic douche doesn't mean reality reflects your "he man woman hater's club" mentality.

As far as the article goes, this woman is dishonest. She attempted to defraud the american people and manipulate the air force, now that she is being revealed for the morally bankrupt person she is, she is attempting to manipulate public opinion by turning a "you dishonestly violated a contract" situation into a "ZOMG the government wants to force me to have ABORTIONS". She has no honor, I hope she does jail time.

.
You had me until you declared that no women had their tours shortened. But to be fair Kosovo was before Generation Baby Daddy/Generation Pill Popper, so perhaps you are telling the truth.

Perhaps I should have specified "in my unit". I know there were incidents were some females were sent home for pregnancies, just not from my units.


So what you're saying is, when it came to your unit, there was no chance a woman got pregnant?
2012-10-25 08:24:06 AM
1 votes:

dready zim: In other news, you can`t expect your life before having a baby to be exactly the same as your life after having a baby.

A lot of people do not realise this.


Seconded. This attitude of "I can have it all, and all right now" is way out of control. And if this chick had applied an ounce of reason, she might comprehend the long-term effects of the military tolerating her decisions. Shiat rolls down hill.

Or maybe, they should just put her in charge of a whole bunch of single parents and see how easy her life becomes. For every responsible one, she'll probably have 2 or 3 that just continually expect accommodation. Just like in civilian life.
2012-10-25 08:06:30 AM
1 votes:
I wish the USA would just establish a decent welfare state--with maternity/paternity leave, subsidized child care, affordable university education, etc.--so that working class people wouldn't join the military thinking it's their only route to the public services that people in most industrialized countries take for granted.

The military should be a *last resort* employment option for single men who don't fit in anywhere else. It's not a damn social services agency or Junior Year Abroad program.
2012-10-25 08:00:34 AM
1 votes:
Too irresponsible to plan a pregnancy?

Too irresponsible to be in the air force.
2012-10-25 07:48:51 AM
1 votes:
Shouldn't have been whoring around.
2012-10-25 07:44:43 AM
1 votes:
Kredal:
So, having an abortion is against her religious beliefs?

From what I understand, it's against much of the Air Force's too. Unless it's post-natally aborting whole families of brown children, of course. Praise Jesus!
2012-10-25 07:43:52 AM
1 votes:
These whores are continually knockin' themselves up!
2012-10-25 07:42:34 AM
1 votes:

hasty ambush: also against military personnel below the pay grad eof E-4 with less than four years service being allowed to marry


They get the immediate perk of getting to move out of the dorms/barracks, however they lose half of their stuff in the divorce a year or two later, kind of balances out.
2012-10-25 07:37:41 AM
1 votes:
Was she hoping the pregnancy would go away on its own? Seriously, she had several options to solve this which she didn't take. Adoption, abortion, getting married or just telling the truth when she found out she was pregnant would have prevented getting booted like she did. If she showed that much lack of creativity and responsibility in resolving this issue she would have made a pretty crappy officer anyway.
2012-10-25 07:36:12 AM
1 votes:
I know one girl who got pregnant to avoid being deployed. Oh she had no problem accepting money from us for her education, but when she was called upon to do her job she was all like, no way.
2012-10-25 07:34:11 AM
1 votes:

"The Air Force is making an assumption that single parents cannot provide adequately for their children if deployed," Edmonds' mother said. "That's what burns me up."


Those bastards! They should just assume that everyone has an equally strong support network of some sort and that the kid(s) will be fine if the parent has to deploy.


"He just says, 'I don't know what would happen to a cadet if she were to become pregnant. But I don't think it would be good. So just don't get pregnant,' " Edmonds recalled of the conversation with the officer. "He said that word for word to me. At that point, I thought, 'OK, I don't think I have to tell anybody this. I'm scared now.' "


Because no one would ever have noticed the pregnancy if she hadn't said anything. Frankly I'm not sure the Air Force needs an officer like that.
2012-10-25 07:33:33 AM
1 votes:
When the Air Force offered her a full scholarship to Marquette University, Edmonds jumped at the chance to become a nurse and serve her country. Marquette is a Catholic university, a perfect fit for the practicing Catholic.
...
Abortion was never an option, she said, because of her Catholic faith and her personal beliefs.

What does her Catholic faith have to say about all that premarital sex she's been having?
2012-10-25 07:32:03 AM
1 votes:
So, she's a good Catholic when it comes to dealing with pregnancy, but not when it came to getting pregnant in the first place.
2012-10-25 07:29:13 AM
1 votes:

Kredal: So, having an abortion is against her religious beliefs? Fine. What about having a bastard child? No qualms about that? What about lying to your employer about your medical condition (against the contract)? That's OK for you?


I did laugh pretty hard at that part of the article
2012-10-25 07:28:07 AM
1 votes:
bringing life into the world gets in the way of killing people, sister.
2012-10-25 07:27:43 AM
1 votes:

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Pretty patheitic tone,huh? She's a total victim and the Air Force practically tryed to force her to get an abortion.


I hate when people force their will on me with legally binding documents. Damn you signature block and your evil ways!
2012-10-25 07:15:31 AM
1 votes:

Tat'dGreaser: They are allowed to cut your contract if they feel you lied about something. If this causes a negative mark that could follow her in life, she may win a case to remove that but the military is usually very quick about getting rid of women who are single and get pregnant. We had one get pregnant in Kosovo and they at least gave her the option and she chose to leave.


Sounds like a fairly standard medical discharge. It shouldn't cause any kind of negative mark.
2012-10-25 06:35:26 AM
1 votes:

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Fark It: ThatGuyFromTheInternet: It's not like the Air Force tells people these things, or she could've ever done anything to prevent pregnancy.

Or just married the baby-daddy prior to enlisting....

Does it even have to be the biological dad? I doubt the USAF is gonna go all Maury Povich on the matter.


I don't think it does, they just want somebody to hand the kid(s) off to when they send you off to do something dangerous, like deploy or pilot an F-22.
2012-10-25 06:21:50 AM
1 votes:

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: It's not like the Air Force tells people these things, or she could've ever done anything to prevent pregnancy.


Or just married the baby-daddy prior to enlisting....
 
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