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(CNN)   Air Force discharges single mother for getting pregnant. Well, to be fair, fighter aircraft don't have baby seats   (cnn.com) divider line 283
    More: Obvious, USAF, single-parent, Catholic University, Catholic Faith, Marquette  
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10616 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Oct 2012 at 7:05 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-25 08:44:31 AM
I'm female. I'm a Mom. I consider myself to be fairly feminist. And I am absolutely okay with the decision to dismiss this young lady from the military. A child does not raise itself. Any single parent, whether it is a single Mom or a Dad who is a widower, for instance; should be released from military duty so that child can have a parent.

If an individual feels strongly that military service is more important in his or her life than parenting his or her child, then that individual should place the child for adoption. The child might be adopted by his or her grandparents rather than placed with an entirely new family, but custody of the child should be transferred to someone who is willing to do the work of parenting the child.

The well-meaning, but misguided attorney representing this young lady does not fully understand what the consequences could be should she win this case. Imagine not just unwed parents, but individuals who have lost a spouse facing not the privilege, but the requirement to remain in the military and thus being deprived of the right to parent his or her child. I feel confident that it would be a very short walk from allowing single parents to requiring single parents to remain in the military. This young lady and her attorney think they are advocating for womens' rights. Really, they are advocating for the destruction of parental rights for both men and women. This young woman and her attorney are probably good, decent people with good intentions, but they are wrong and, per my grandmother, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
 
2012-10-25 08:45:30 AM
If its a legitimate enlistment the body has ways of shutting this down.

Sorry honey, looks legit.
 
2012-10-25 08:45:44 AM
The deception with tact Just what are you trying to say?
You've got a blank face, which irritates Communicate, pull out your party piece
You see dimensions in two State your case with black or white
But when one little cross leads to shots, grit your teeth You run for cover so discreet

Why don't they do what you say? Say what you mean oh, babe One Discharge leads to another.
 
2012-10-25 08:45:52 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: Englebert Slaptyback: It would be very easy to make the plausible case that she always intended to get pregnant post-school/pre-serve and thus the original signing of the contract was indeed fraudulent, since she never intended to fulfill her side of the bargain but wanted to receive the benefit of the funding.

Why the fark would she want to be on the hook for more than $93K (plus interest, without a doubt)?

/Dunning Kruger is in full play in this thread insofar as many of the commenters think they are super duper smart.


The military didn't pay for her to go to school so she could have a kid and have no other means other than her to care for it. The military paid for her to go to school so she could fulfill her service commitment to do her job and deploy as required. If she can't hold up her end of the deal, neither should the military.
 
2012-10-25 08:45:55 AM

indylaw: This may come as a shock to you, as it does to many, but even in law (even in *military* law), words have meaning. You can't say "she's a murderer!" when what you really mean is that some guy ran out right in front of her car and she didn't see him in time to hit the brakes. Even if you use "military law" as a copout. You don't say "she's a thief" if she gets the wrong (but similar) coat from the coat check and doesn't realize the error until she gets home.


Actually, I can say whatever in the shiat I want. What you meant to say is that I shouldn't. Remember, words have meaning.

There's no question that she was required by military regulations to report her pregnancy and didn't. That doesn't mean that she committed fraud to obtain a scholarship, which is what the military lawyers are claiming.

They get to claim whatever they want - it's up to the court to decide if they're correct. Maybe you would've learned that in law school?

You could make that argument if you could demonstrate that even though she wasn't pregnant in 2007 when she signed the contract, she intended when she signed the contract to get some guy to knock her up a few years later and she was going to lie about it and game the system so that she could get a scholarship to college but avoid having to serve in the Air Force. But a breach of contract doesn't magically become fraud because some JAG prosecutor says so.

In all honesty, and snark aside, we'd have to have all of the relevant facts to make a true argument as to whether or not this is fraud or not. We don't have that. However, I've no issue with them pursuing this as fraud.
 
2012-10-25 08:46:45 AM
When my Guard MP unit deployed in fall of 2010, we had 5 females get pregnant and taken off the deployment within a few months of leaving, and 2 more get pregnant in country and sent home. I'm getting ready to deploy again with another MP unit in my state and 1 female has already gotten pregnant and moved to the rear detachment platoon that's staying behind. I'm betting she won't be the last. It's a ready-made "get out of deployment free" card and the female soldiers know it. Most will still deploy, but a fair amount use their gender to bend/break the rules often enough that it's a problem. I think the fact that there aren't really any consequences is the real problem. They don't lose their $20,000 bonuses, college money, not even an Article 15. Just taken off the deployment and spend the year drilling in state instead like always. All the benefits of enlisting, but when the time comes to answer the call, they just decide they don't feel like coming, get knocked up and get to stay home soaking up the paychecks instead. Thought, it might be for the best. I wouldn't want to be around most of them in combat anyways.

To be fair, last time we had one male soldier use the "I'm gonna kill myself" excuse and was pulled off the deployment at the last minute. Not sure if he was making it up, but either way, he didn't have to deploy. I bet there will be at least one more of those this time too.
 
2012-10-25 08:47:04 AM

shotglasss: FTA: Abortion was never an option, she said, because of her Catholic faith and her personal beliefs.

I'm not Catholic, but I'm pretty sure that getting knocked up before getting hitched doesn't jibe with the Catholic faith.


I came to say this. Not very Catholic.
 
2012-10-25 08:47:14 AM

Sgt Otter: We had a few guys get the boot after a divorce, and the ex-wife didn't want custody


Wow, that possibility never occurred to me. I wonder how many of these women were secretly still in love with their husbands and crazy determined to remove them from a potentially deadly situation?
 
2012-10-25 08:47:14 AM

indylaw


Arguments are usually accompanied by evidence beyond "Wow, isn't this convenient!"


True, but it certainly does shout MOTIVE loudly and clearly, and her father would be in a good position to advise her on the best way to get the scholarship and not end up (potentially) in harm's way.

I'm fairly certain that the woman in TFA would not want to go through the required investigation: questions about how long she and her boyfriend were having unprotected sex and what she and her father may or may not have discussed via email could be problematic.

As mentioned upthread, military law is not quite the same as civilian law, so the investigation might not look like what you would expect.
 
2012-10-25 08:48:22 AM

Bhruic: But at the same time, if she's been advised that she can't continue if she's a single parent, it tends to incentivise not reporting your pregnancy.


It only incentivises it if you plan on aborting the baby, because that isn't soemthingt hat you can hide.


Bhruic: Fighting against the policy makes sense (assuming it's a bad policy, and I'm not in a position to comment on that), but even if successful shouldn't mean that she gets off the hook


Fighting it doesn't make sense. You can't be active in ROTC and go to college at the same time you are having a baby.
 
2012-10-25 08:48:34 AM
Let the woman hate shine out in this thread, farkers.
Let the authoritarian followers howl at the moon.
 
2012-10-25 08:48:37 AM
If its a legitimate enlistment the body has ways of shutting this down.

Sorry honey, too bad..
 
2012-10-25 08:48:42 AM
Too bad she wasn't raped, she could have avoided the pregnancy in the first place.
 
2012-10-25 08:49:07 AM
Let us dump you down
where you belong,..
2.bp.blogspot.com
Just a horny slut...
working at the Sunglass Hut.
 
2012-10-25 08:50:13 AM

Lunaville: Sgt Otter: We had a few guys get the boot after a divorce, and the ex-wife didn't want custody

Wow, that possibility never occurred to me. I wonder how many of these women were secretly still in love with their husbands and crazy determined to remove them from a potentially deadly situation?


That's actually an awesome plan.
 
2012-10-25 08:51:43 AM

Englebert Slaptyback: True, but it certainly does shout MOTIVE loudly and clearly, and her father would be in a good position to advise her on the best way to get the scholarship and not end up (potentially) in harm's way.


Because all single mothers want to be saddled with crushing debt, right?
/Moran derpity.
 
2012-10-25 08:51:58 AM

Oblio13: Spent 21 years in the Marines. A huge percentage of our woman Marines used to get pregnant either right before or during deployments. So a unit trains together like it should, then rotates overseas with brand new replacements to fill the holes. Now that I'm out I can say it: very, very few women pull their weight in the military.



Came to say this.

/Only 8 years for me though
//Semper Fi brah
 
2012-10-25 08:52:17 AM

Tat'dGreaser: ThatGuyFromTheInternet: It's not like the Air Force tells people these things, or she could've ever done anything to prevent pregnancy.

Not too mention she's supposed to be very Catholic. Guess that didn't turn out so well.


What do you mean? Her having a kid out of wedlock proves how catholic she is.

/Was raised catholic
//went to a catholic school, and yes, the rumors are true
///no longer practicing anything
 
2012-10-25 08:52:35 AM

retarded: Too bad she wasn't raped, she could have avoided the pregnancy in the first place.


The paid posters are logging in a few minutes early today.
 
2012-10-25 08:53:41 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: omnimancer28: No, he is saying that single fathers are treated the exact same as single mothers. If a father has sole custody of a child through divorce or his spouse's death, he would get the boot just as quickly. (several posters have already mentioned examples of this)

Not really. What it means is that the armed services are just as stupid as ever.
Like Lockheed Martin, they never forget whose money they're wasting.

But impoverishing a single mom by putting her into debt and tossing a motivated commissioned officer out of the only career she ever wanted seems like the right thing to do, right?
Farking idiots.


An officer's commission is a privilege, not a participation trophy she gets just for wanting it really but falling short of the standards. At least her degree. Can help her stave off Walmart slavery with the other single moms.
 
2012-10-25 08:54:01 AM

taurusowner: To be fair, last time we had one male soldier use the "I'm gonna kill myself" excuse and was pulled off the deployment at the last minute.


Struggle to have as much compassion as possible toward anyone who states he is going to kill himself. Ya'll are rocking an absolutely horrifying suicide rate. And don't be embarrassed to be one of those guys who gets pulled off deployment at the last minute if you begin to despair. You also deserve the compassion and care you might require to remain physically and mentally healthy.
 
2012-10-25 08:54:10 AM

HotIgneous Intruder


Why the fark would she want to be on the hook for more than $93K (plus interest, without a doubt)?


The point (subtle, I know) was that it looks like she planned to get the education but not to be on the hook for the money.
 
2012-10-25 08:55:03 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: She's an officer and a nurse, you idiots.
Let her serve or STFU.

/Nothing to see here.


She is a nurse? A trained medical professional who does not understand how to avoid pregnancy?

Air Force is better off without her.
 
2012-10-25 08:55:06 AM

Billified: Fark It: Bender The Offender: Oblio13: Spent 21 years in the Marines. A huge percentage of our woman Marines used to get pregnant either right before or during deployments. So a unit trains together like it should, then rotates overseas with brand new replacements to fill the holes. Now that I'm out I can say it: very, very few women pull their weight in the military.

My mom spent 24 years in the military, retired as a sgt. maj. She deployed around the world. She was an outstanding soldier and she joined as a single mother. I deplored to saudi and kosovo with female soldiers and pilots. Not one of them had their tours shortened for pregnancy. We did lose a few men to "stress" though. Just because youre a misogynistic douche doesn't mean reality reflects your "he man woman hater's club" mentality.

As far as the article goes, this woman is dishonest. She attempted to defraud the american people and manipulate the air force, now that she is being revealed for the morally bankrupt person she is, she is attempting to manipulate public opinion by turning a "you dishonestly violated a contract" situation into a "ZOMG the government wants to force me to have ABORTIONS". She has no honor, I hope she does jail time.

"My personal anecdote is clearly more relevant then your personal anecdote!"

In my experience it wasn't that women could not handle the military, it was that men could not deal with the women in the military. Things like a guy standing near the front of a 45 minute long chow line sees a random woman walking past and offers to let her jump in line ahead of him. He'd almost never make that offer to a guy, but who could blame her for taking the offer, but the guy way in the back is mad at her for getting a shortcut. Something heavy needs to be moved? Some guy will offer to do it and every other guy around accuses her of not pulling her weight...but trust me, some guy offers to pick up a 100lb safety relief valve for me, I'm letting him. I did a rough job in a rou ...


While i agree with you on the base points, in my experience it was more because of things like the cute A1C that just came out of tech school got to ride around in the front seat of the expeditor's truck while he sent SrA's and SSgt's out to work because he was trying to score "get in her pants" points. Also things like being told by my flight chief that I couldnt get my AFCM until i tacked on SSgt (despite having a line number), i had put out 4 aircraft fires (receiving chemical burns on my hands on the last one), won Airman of the Quarter for squadron and Operations Group, won Airman Maintenance Professional of the Quarter for squadron and Operations Group, was the DCC on the squadron commander's aircraft, made SSgt the first time testing, and was chosen to serve as the base enlisted liaison for the ROTC troops during their summer camp at our base. And guess who was on stage with me getting her AFCM? Yep a cute SrA with no line number who worked in plans and scheduling, who once said she didnt like being in the Air Force because "we bomb people".

/not bitter ;)
 
2012-10-25 08:57:23 AM

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: know when to pull out of tight spots or eject


Biologically speaking, isn't that the man's job?
 
2012-10-25 08:57:45 AM

Englebert Slaptyback: indylaw

Arguments are usually accompanied by evidence beyond "Wow, isn't this convenient!"


True, but it certainly does shout MOTIVE loudly and clearly, and her father would be in a good position to advise her on the best way to get the scholarship and not end up (potentially) in harm's way.

I'm fairly certain that the woman in TFA would not want to go through the required investigation: questions about how long she and her boyfriend were having unprotected sex and what she and her father may or may not have discussed via email could be problematic.

As mentioned upthread, military law is not quite the same as civilian law, so the investigation might not look like what you would expect.


You need more that motive and speculation to prove a crime. I admit that I am not a military lawyer, but I can only imagine that even there, it's for the prosecutors to offer proof that an actual crime was committed.

Let's say that your estranged wife turns up dead. A prosecutor's not going to put you away for murder if all he shows is that you've hated the biatch for the last two years and a remark in closing arguments that "Hey, all I'm saying is it's awfully convenient for him now that she's out of the way!"
 
2012-10-25 08:59:09 AM

irsquareamads: Billified: Fark It: Bender The Offender: Oblio13: Spent 21 years in the Marines. A huge percentage of our woman Marines used to get pregnant either right before or during deployments. So a unit trains together like it should, then rotates overseas with brand new replacements to fill the holes. Now that I'm out I can say it: very, very few women pull their weight in the military.

My mom spent 24 years in the military, retired as a sgt. maj. She deployed around the world. She was an outstanding soldier and she joined as a single mother. I deplored to saudi and kosovo with female soldiers and pilots. Not one of them had their tours shortened for pregnancy. We did lose a few men to "stress" though. Just because youre a misogynistic douche doesn't mean reality reflects your "he man woman hater's club" mentality.

As far as the article goes, this woman is dishonest. She attempted to defraud the american people and manipulate the air force, now that she is being revealed for the morally bankrupt person she is, she is attempting to manipulate public opinion by turning a "you dishonestly violated a contract" situation into a "ZOMG the government wants to force me to have ABORTIONS". She has no honor, I hope she does jail time.

"My personal anecdote is clearly more relevant then your personal anecdote!"

In my experience it wasn't that women could not handle the military, it was that men could not deal with the women in the military. Things like a guy standing near the front of a 45 minute long chow line sees a random woman walking past and offers to let her jump in line ahead of him. He'd almost never make that offer to a guy, but who could blame her for taking the offer, but the guy way in the back is mad at her for getting a shortcut. Something heavy needs to be moved? Some guy will offer to do it and every other guy around accuses her of not pulling her weight...but trust me, some guy offers to pick up a 100lb safety relief valve for me, I'm letting him. I did a rough j ...


I'd like to agree with you by saying "this" or some such thing, but without a picture in your profile to know if you're hot or not, alas...

/JK
//Orami?
///Nahimtotallyjk
 
2012-10-25 09:03:55 AM

Summoner101: The military didn't pay for her to go to school so she could have a kid and have no other means other than her to care for it. The military paid for her to go to school so she could fulfill her service commitment to do her job and deploy as required. If she can't hold up her end of the deal, neither should the military.


People are people. Life is hard for organizations that don't understand that. In this case, we all pay the price of 1) the loss of a trained officer, and 2) the cost of her education, even if she is made to "pay it back." Money isn't the only thing being lost here.
She has wanted this career all her life and the motivation that comes with that desire is incalculably valuable to the service and to the nation. If she's smart, she'll realize the truth that not only does the government and the military not love her, no company she ever works for will love her either, no matter what her level of commitment or desire to be a part of the team.
Hopefully she'll jump off the taxpayer teat and make a good life for herself despite the storm of ignorance that inundates her now and she'll be a better person for all of this.

/I know whereof I speak, having grown up around the military in a military family. No matter how you feel about service, you're a machine part, nothing more.
 
2012-10-25 09:06:26 AM
She just gambled hoping the AF would forgive her student loan debt. If there was no $92K loan hanging over her head, she wouldn't say a word, which I'll bet was the coonts plan all along.


Stupid free-loading biatch.
 
2012-10-25 09:07:19 AM

indylaw


You need more that motive and speculation to prove a crime. I admit that I am not a military lawyer, but I can only imagine that even there, it's for the prosecutors to offer proof that an actual crime was committed.


Understood. However, the base commander has a certain amount of leeway to handle issues on his own; that can be free-form and not necessarily congruent with traditional courtroom procedure. It could be as simple as an interview with Personnel (HR) present.

Of course she's already been discharged so that's moot, but the fact remains that the events give all the appearances of fraud and the AF continues to investigate (which I think is prudent).
 
2012-10-25 09:08:06 AM

irsquareamads: While i agree with you on the base points, in my experience it was more because of things like the cute A1C that just came out of tech school got to ride around in the front seat of the expeditor's truck while he sent SrA's and SSgt's out to work because he was trying to score "get in her pants" points. Also things like being told by my flight chief that I couldnt get my AFCM until i tacked on SSgt (despite having a line number), i had put out 4 aircraft fires (receiving chemical burns on my hands on the last one), won Airman of the Quarter for squadron and Operations Group, won Airman Maintenance Professional of the Quarter for squadron and Operations Group, was the DCC on the squadron commander's aircraft, made SSgt the first time testing, and was chosen to serve as the base enlisted liaison for the ROTC troops during their summer camp at our base. And guess who was on stage with me getting her AFCM? Yep a cute SrA with no line number who worked in plans and scheduling, who once said she didnt like being in the Air Force because "we bomb people".


It happens everywhere. We had a female soldier get suddenly pulled off her team about a month in and turned into an admin specialist in the TOC for the rest of our deployment...and happened to be the only junior enlisted soldier who got a Bronze Star as an end of tour award -_-.....for processing paperwork and surfing Facebook on the NIPR computer while the rest of us were running missions.

\I'm sure the fact that she was seen leaving our male Plt Sgt's CHU early in the morning more than once had nothing to do with it.
\\Yeah I seem bitter. But being an MP (a coed MOS that does combat missions) gives one the opportunity to witness a lot of the BS that really happens around females in the military.
\\\On that note, do MRAP doors or .50cal ammo cans get magically lighter if a female soldier is carrying them? Since they do have lower PT standards....
 
2012-10-25 09:10:26 AM
I'm getting a paternity test warning!

t0.gstatic.com

SHE'S GOT DNA LOCK!

i.ytimg.com

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! 
 
2012-10-25 09:10:27 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: But impoverishing a single mom by putting her into debt and tossing a motivated commissioned officer out of the only career she ever wanted seems like the right thing to do, right?


How are they putting her into debt?

She wasn't a "comissioned officer" nor was she motivated by honesty, or duty or she wouldn't be in this position.

So, basically, you are wrong on every count.
 
2012-10-25 09:10:38 AM

Englebert Slaptyback: HotIgneous Intruder

Why the fark would she want to be on the hook for more than $93K (plus interest, without a doubt)?


The point (subtle, I know) was that it looks like she planned to get the education but not to be on the hook for the money.


Things are seldom as they appear.
Because she wasn't told that she'd be on the hook multiple times before she signed the contract, didn't understand that while she read the contract, and during her entire tenure as a cadet, right? She knew she would be on the hook if she screwed up, but she didn't expect that the Air Force would do something so idiotic as toss her for fulfilling her biological purpose.

/Authoritarian girl-haters are cretins. Get off my planet.
 
2012-10-25 09:10:42 AM
Well, to be fair, fighter aircraft don't have baby seats

Then where did Bush sit?
 
2012-10-25 09:11:10 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: She has wanted this career all her life and the motivation that comes with that desire is incalculably valuable to the service and to the nation.


Without pretending to have omniscience into her true motivations and desires, it's safe to say from the visible facts she had acted with neither the intelligence or integrity to achieve those goals. Both are job requirements, the position isn't an entitlement.
 
2012-10-25 09:11:18 AM

Bender The Offender: Oblio13: Spent 21 years in the Marines. A huge percentage of our woman Marines used to get pregnant either right before or during deployments. So a unit trains together like it should, then rotates overseas with brand new replacements to fill the holes. Now that I'm out I can say it: very, very few women pull their weight in the military.

My mom spent 24 years in the military, retired as a sgt. maj. She deployed around the world. She was an outstanding soldier and she joined as a single mother. I deplored to saudi and kosovo with female soldiers and pilots. Not one of them had their tours shortened for pregnancy. We did lose a few men to "stress" though. Just because youre a misogynistic douche doesn't mean reality reflects your "he man woman hater's club" mentality.


I used protection when I did your mom.
 
2012-10-25 09:11:57 AM

Englebert Slaptyback: indylaw

You need more that motive and speculation to prove a crime. I admit that I am not a military lawyer, but I can only imagine that even there, it's for the prosecutors to offer proof that an actual crime was committed.


Understood. However, the base commander has a certain amount of leeway to handle issues on his own; that can be free-form and not necessarily congruent with traditional courtroom procedure. It could be as simple as an interview with Personnel (HR) present.

Of course she's already been discharged so that's moot, but the fact remains that the events give all the appearances of fraud and the AF continues to investigate (which I think is prudent).


I have no argument that she should be discharged, or even that what she did was dishonest. I feel that, unless the prosecutors have some evidence we're not privy to (which is always possible), it's at least as likely that she accidentally got pregnant and the fear of having to pay back over $90K caused her to clam up when she had a duty to notify the authorities, rather than the notion that she engaged in an elaborate scheme to trick the Air Force into giving her a huge scholarship while intending since the beginning to find some way to cheat the government out of the money by avoiding her commission at the end (while somehow avoiding punishment). I suppose you and I will just have to disagree on that point.
 
2012-10-25 09:12:01 AM

liam76: HotIgneous Intruder: But impoverishing a single mom by putting her into debt and tossing a motivated commissioned officer out of the only career she ever wanted seems like the right thing to do, right?

How are they putting her into debt?

She wasn't a "comissioned officer" nor was she motivated by honesty, or duty or she wouldn't be in this position.

So, basically, you are wrong on every count.


Also given her condition she couldn't have completed the training program she was in.
 
2012-10-25 09:12:38 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: Summoner101: The military didn't pay for her to go to school so she could have a kid and have no other means other than her to care for it. The military paid for her to go to school so she could fulfill her service commitment to do her job and deploy as required. If she can't hold up her end of the deal, neither should the military.

People are people. Life is hard for organizations that don't understand that. In this case, we all pay the price of 1) the loss of a trained officer, and 2) the cost of her education, even if she is made to "pay it back." Money isn't the only thing being lost here.
She has wanted this career all her life and the motivation that comes with that desire is incalculably valuable to the service and to the nation. If she's smart, she'll realize the truth that not only does the government and the military not love her, no company she ever works for will love her either, no matter what her level of commitment or desire to be a part of the team.
Hopefully she'll jump off the taxpayer teat and make a good life for herself despite the storm of ignorance that inundates her now and she'll be a better person for all of this.

/I know whereof I speak, having grown up around the military in a military family. No matter how you feel about service, you're a machine part, nothing more.


And instead of wasting a dwindling resource such as commission spots, the military might instead use her spot to direct commission a single nurse with no children or a married nurse with a family. The military has less leeway with its manpower demographics than civilian sectors. If this woman is allowed to stay in, that means other nurses have to deploy to pick up her slack. This has nothing to do with whether a woman is or is not denied her dream. It has to do with the military being able to have and maintain a healthy, deployable force.
 
2012-10-25 09:14:53 AM

Fark It: Or just married the baby-daddy prior to enlisting....


Last I heard, they have rules about that, also.
 
2012-10-25 09:15:38 AM

omnimancer28: HotIgneous Intruder: SnarfVader: /Sorry, lady. You don't get to play by a different set of rules from everybody else in the military.

Yes, I've seen lots of pregnant males in the Air Force nurse corps.

/You're realize that you're saying that pregnant males should be treated the same as pregnant females.

No, he is saying that single fathers are treated the exact same as single mothers. If a father has sole custody of a child through divorce or his spouse's death, he would get the boot just as quickly. (several posters have already mentioned examples of this)


There is hardly a shortage of single parents in the military. The caveats are:

- you can't enlist or be commissioned as a single parent (why are people still talking about her "enlisting" in this thread when she was an ROTC student)
- if you find yourself in the single-parent boat after you're already in, you better have a Family Care Plan: you must have a local/short term, and a long term provider who will be able to take the kids at a moment's notice if you have short notice orders.
- this applies to military-to-military married couples, also quite common.

Often, in the military, it's easier to stay in than to get in. It seems unfair, but it makes sense from the taxpayer's point of view. You don't want to let people in who have significant health issues, multiple dependents, won't be world-wide deployable. However, there's more leeway once a person is in, as there is already a considerable investment of resources in training, security clearances, etc., and often considerable expertise that would be lost. 

Also... NO way she didn't know this. Or know that she had to report any changes in her medical status. Give me a break.

In my 11th year in the AF.
 
2012-10-25 09:16:06 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: but she didn't expect that the Air Force would do something so idiotic as toss her for fulfilling her biological purpose.

/Authoritarian girl-haters are cretins. Get off my planet.


You have to be trolling...
 
2012-10-25 09:19:47 AM

indylaw


I have no argument that she should be discharged, or even that what she did was dishonest. I feel that, unless the prosecutors have some evidence we're not privy to (which is always possible), it's at least as likely that she accidentally got pregnant and the fear of having to pay back over $90K caused her to clam up when she had a duty to notify the authorities, rather than the notion that she engaged in an elaborate scheme to trick the Air Force into giving her a huge scholarship while intending since the beginning to find some way to cheat the government out of the money by avoiding her commission at the end (while somehow avoiding punishment). I suppose you and I will just have to disagree on that point.


And that's fine, even for Fark. :-)

Keep in mind too that we haven't heard the AF side. Nor are we likely to do so as the investigation is ongoing, but both scenarios (yours, mine) are plausible.
 
2012-10-25 09:20:10 AM

jeffowl: So, she's a good Catholic when it comes to dealing with pregnancy, but not when it came to getting pregnant in the first place.


This never made sense to me--if you are willing to commit the sin of fornication, why not commit the sin of birth control at the same time so as to not have to worry about the possibility of the sin of abortion later?
 
2012-10-25 09:20:56 AM

Izunbacol: - if you find yourself in the single-parent boat after you're already in, you better have a Family Care Plan: you must have a local/short term, and a long term provider who will be able to take the kids at a moment's notice if you have short notice orders.


Does this mean that a male, who loses his wife to a car wreck or cancer, would have to have a log term provider? Would he not be dismissed/allowed to depart from the military in order to care for his family?
 
2012-10-25 09:21:19 AM
I'm not sure that I see the problem. Parents serve in the military every day. Heck, there are even maternity uniforms (page 66 of document)She takes some medical leave to have the baby and gets back to work when it's over. Is this a child care issue or something?
 
2012-10-25 09:21:31 AM

taurusowner: irsquareamads: While i agree with you on the base points, in my experience it was more because of things like the cute A1C that just came out of tech school got to ride around in the front seat of the expeditor's truck while he sent SrA's and SSgt's out to work because he was trying to score "get in her pants" points. Also things like being told by my flight chief that I couldnt get my AFCM until i tacked on SSgt (despite having a line number), i had put out 4 aircraft fires (receiving chemical burns on my hands on the last one), won Airman of the Quarter for squadron and Operations Group, won Airman Maintenance Professional of the Quarter for squadron and Operations Group, was the DCC on the squadron commander's aircraft, made SSgt the first time testing, and was chosen to serve as the base enlisted liaison for the ROTC troops during their summer camp at our base. And guess who was on stage with me getting her AFCM? Yep a cute SrA with no line number who worked in plans and scheduling, who once said she didnt like being in the Air Force because "we bomb people".

It happens everywhere. We had a female soldier get suddenly pulled off her team about a month in and turned into an admin specialist in the TOC for the rest of our deployment...and happened to be the only junior enlisted soldier who got a Bronze Star as an end of tour award -_-.....for processing paperwork and surfing Facebook on the NIPR computer while the rest of us were running missions.

\I'm sure the fact that she was seen leaving our male Plt Sgt's CHU early in the morning more than once had nothing to do with it.
\\Yeah I seem bitter. But being an MP (a coed MOS that does combat missions) gives one the opportunity to witness a lot of the BS that really happens around females in the military.
\\\On that note, do MRAP doors or .50cal ammo cans get magically lighter if a female soldier is carrying them? Since they do have lower PT standards....


i know that feel bro, another fine example would be that out of the 100's of incentive flights i've seen i'd say a good 80% of the military ones (we did local reporters and politicians as well) were young female airmen from either medical squadrons or communications squadrons. I'm not saying that they weren't deserved, I *am* saying that there's just as many guys out there who deserved them, and most of them were the mechanics who worked them.

Also, some of our aircraft parts are upwards of 100-150 pounds and you'd have to hold them above your head while somebody fumbled with the clamp and bolts that held them up. Actually, lol, you generally held them up with one hand/shoulder and did the bolts and clamps yourself cuz we were always short on manpower. Usually due to our AFSC being chose as SP augmentees. We had lower PT requirements for the girls as well.
 
2012-10-25 09:22:13 AM

Fark It: You have to be trolling...


M: Look, I don't want to argue about that.
A: Well, you didn't pay.
M: Aha. If I didn't pay, why are you arguing? I Got you!
A: No you haven't.
M: Yes I have. If you're arguing, I must have paid.
A: Not necessarily. I could be arguing in my spare time Republican.
 
2012-10-25 09:22:58 AM
Prediction: She'll play the victim until she gets a commission, then make a career of whining and threatening to sue when she isn't promoted as quickly as she'd like, doesn't get the duty stations she wants, or gets an unaccompanied tour. Other officers will have to pick up the slack for her.
 
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