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(CNN)   Air Force discharges single mother for getting pregnant. Well, to be fair, fighter aircraft don't have baby seats   (cnn.com) divider line 283
    More: Obvious, USAF, single-parent, Catholic University, Catholic Faith, Marquette  
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10620 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Oct 2012 at 7:05 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-25 06:11:21 AM  
Subby: Air Force discharges single mother for getting pregnant.

FTFA: Weeks before being commissioned as a military officer, Edmonds discovered that she was pregnant.

One of these things is not like the other.

/Sorry, lady. You don't get to play by a different set of rules from everybody else in the military.
 
2012-10-25 06:19:15 AM  
But they were wrong. Citing a contract she signed in 2007 when she enrolled in ROTC at age 18, the Air Force said she committed a fraud by not reporting a change in her medical condition, as indicated in the contract.

Read. Your. farking. Contract.

Is the policy fair to single parents? No. Is it fair to their children and the U.S. taxpayer? Yes.
 
2012-10-25 06:19:34 AM  
It's not like the Air Force tells people these things, or she could've ever done anything to prevent pregnancy.
 
2012-10-25 06:21:50 AM  

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: It's not like the Air Force tells people these things, or she could've ever done anything to prevent pregnancy.


Or just married the baby-daddy prior to enlisting....
 
2012-10-25 06:27:01 AM  

Fark It: ThatGuyFromTheInternet: It's not like the Air Force tells people these things, or she could've ever done anything to prevent pregnancy.

Or just married the baby-daddy prior to enlisting....


Does it even have to be the biological dad? I doubt the USAF is gonna go all Maury Povich on the matter.
 
2012-10-25 06:35:26 AM  

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Fark It: ThatGuyFromTheInternet: It's not like the Air Force tells people these things, or she could've ever done anything to prevent pregnancy.

Or just married the baby-daddy prior to enlisting....

Does it even have to be the biological dad? I doubt the USAF is gonna go all Maury Povich on the matter.


I don't think it does, they just want somebody to hand the kid(s) off to when they send you off to do something dangerous, like deploy or pilot an F-22.
 
2012-10-25 06:44:20 AM  

Fark It: ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Fark It: ThatGuyFromTheInternet: It's not like the Air Force tells people these things, or she could've ever done anything to prevent pregnancy.

Or just married the baby-daddy prior to enlisting....

Does it even have to be the biological dad? I doubt the USAF is gonna go all Maury Povich on the matter.

I don't think it does, they just want somebody to hand the kid(s) off to when they send you off to do something dangerous, like deploy or pilot an F-22.


Plus, an Air Force officer should really have the judgement skills to know when to pull out of tight spots or eject, flying or not.
 
2012-10-25 07:13:58 AM  
They are allowed to cut your contract if they feel you lied about something. If this causes a negative mark that could follow her in life, she may win a case to remove that but the military is usually very quick about getting rid of women who are single and get pregnant. We had one get pregnant in Kosovo and they at least gave her the option and she chose to leave.
 
2012-10-25 07:14:59 AM  

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: It's not like the Air Force tells people these things, or she could've ever done anything to prevent pregnancy.


Not too mention she's supposed to be very Catholic. Guess that didn't turn out so well.
 
2012-10-25 07:15:31 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: They are allowed to cut your contract if they feel you lied about something. If this causes a negative mark that could follow her in life, she may win a case to remove that but the military is usually very quick about getting rid of women who are single and get pregnant. We had one get pregnant in Kosovo and they at least gave her the option and she chose to leave.


Sounds like a fairly standard medical discharge. It shouldn't cause any kind of negative mark.
 
2012-10-25 07:17:39 AM  
The Air Force accused Edmonds of committing fraud, ejected her from its ranks

static.ddmcdn.com
 
2012-10-25 07:18:12 AM  
First read what you sign. Did Marquette throw her out too? I thought that would happen also? I knew a couple teen moms it happened to
 
2012-10-25 07:18:21 AM  

geek_mars: Sounds like a fairly standard medical discharge. It shouldn't cause any kind of negative mark.


Well in the article they talk about the Air Force letting her go for lying, which can lead to jail time if they decide to go that way. I'm thinking they won't do that and just let her go without any negative marks.

Ha, I just read more of the article and the Air Force has a pretty strong case and most of the article is her just crying about not reading what she signed.
 
2012-10-25 07:21:51 AM  
"If Ms. Edmonds had reported her pregnancy she would have been placed on medical recheck status until she gave birth. At that time she would have been been able to commission if she were not a single parent, for example, if she were married, or had given the child up for adoption."


cdn.ebaumsworld.com
It's all there, black and white, clear as crystal! You got pregnant! You have a kid that the Air Force now has to worry about, so you get nothing! You lose! Good day, ma'am!
 
2012-10-25 07:23:24 AM  
.Gotta side with the military here. She failed to live up to her responsibilities.
 
2012-10-25 07:23:48 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: geek_mars: Sounds like a fairly standard medical discharge. It shouldn't cause any kind of negative mark.

Well in the article they talk about the Air Force letting her go for lying, which can lead to jail time if they decide to go that way. I'm thinking they won't do that and just let her go without any negative marks.


Good point. Of course, if she makes a stink about it...
 
2012-10-25 07:24:05 AM  
images3.cliqueclack.com

"You should have read the contract, dearie!"
 
2012-10-25 07:25:02 AM  

geek_mars: Good point. Of course, if she makes a stink about it...


Well she's trying right now with this article, but I think the military has better lawyers than what she can afford.
 
2012-10-25 07:26:07 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: geek_mars: Sounds like a fairly standard medical discharge. It shouldn't cause any kind of negative mark.

Well in the article they talk about the Air Force letting her go for lying, which can lead to jail time if they decide to go that way. I'm thinking they won't do that and just let her go without any negative marks.

Ha, I just read more of the article and the Air Force has a pretty strong case and most of the article is her just crying about not reading what she signed.


Pretty patheitic tone,huh? She's a total victim and the Air Force practically tryed to force her to get an abortion.
 
2012-10-25 07:27:19 AM  
fark her.
 
2012-10-25 07:27:43 AM  

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Pretty patheitic tone,huh? She's a total victim and the Air Force practically tryed to force her to get an abortion.


I hate when people force their will on me with legally binding documents. Damn you signature block and your evil ways!
 
2012-10-25 07:27:52 AM  
So, having an abortion is against her religious beliefs? Fine. What about having a bastard child? No qualms about that? What about lying to your employer about your medical condition (against the contract)? That's OK for you?
 
2012-10-25 07:28:07 AM  
bringing life into the world gets in the way of killing people, sister.
 
2012-10-25 07:29:13 AM  

Kredal: So, having an abortion is against her religious beliefs? Fine. What about having a bastard child? No qualms about that? What about lying to your employer about your medical condition (against the contract)? That's OK for you?


I did laugh pretty hard at that part of the article
 
2012-10-25 07:31:41 AM  
FTA: Abortion was never an option, she said, because of her Catholic faith and her personal beliefs.

I'm not Catholic, but I'm pretty sure that getting knocked up before getting hitched doesn't jibe with the Catholic faith.
 
2012-10-25 07:31:58 AM  

Kredal: So, having an abortion is against her religious beliefs? Fine. What about having a bastard child? No qualms about that? What about lying to your employer about your medical condition (against the contract)? That's OK for you?


Are you implying someone should actually have to apply their ethics across the board and not just when/where it's convenient or advantageous? That's crazy talk.
 
2012-10-25 07:32:03 AM  
So, she's a good Catholic when it comes to dealing with pregnancy, but not when it came to getting pregnant in the first place.
 
2012-10-25 07:33:33 AM  
When the Air Force offered her a full scholarship to Marquette University, Edmonds jumped at the chance to become a nurse and serve her country. Marquette is a Catholic university, a perfect fit for the practicing Catholic.
...
Abortion was never an option, she said, because of her Catholic faith and her personal beliefs.

What does her Catholic faith have to say about all that premarital sex she's been having?
 
2012-10-25 07:34:11 AM  

"The Air Force is making an assumption that single parents cannot provide adequately for their children if deployed," Edmonds' mother said. "That's what burns me up."


Those bastards! They should just assume that everyone has an equally strong support network of some sort and that the kid(s) will be fine if the parent has to deploy.


"He just says, 'I don't know what would happen to a cadet if she were to become pregnant. But I don't think it would be good. So just don't get pregnant,' " Edmonds recalled of the conversation with the officer. "He said that word for word to me. At that point, I thought, 'OK, I don't think I have to tell anybody this. I'm scared now.' "


Because no one would ever have noticed the pregnancy if she hadn't said anything. Frankly I'm not sure the Air Force needs an officer like that.
 
2012-10-25 07:36:12 AM  
I know one girl who got pregnant to avoid being deployed. Oh she had no problem accepting money from us for her education, but when she was called upon to do her job she was all like, no way.
 
2012-10-25 07:37:16 AM  

liam76: fark her.


Sorry, sounds like someone beat you to it.
 
2012-10-25 07:37:41 AM  
Was she hoping the pregnancy would go away on its own? Seriously, she had several options to solve this which she didn't take. Adoption, abortion, getting married or just telling the truth when she found out she was pregnant would have prevented getting booted like she did. If she showed that much lack of creativity and responsibility in resolving this issue she would have made a pretty crappy officer anyway.
 
2012-10-25 07:37:48 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: ThatGuyFromTheInternet: It's not like the Air Force tells people these things, or she could've ever done anything to prevent pregnancy.

Not too mention she's supposed to be very Catholic. Guess that didn't turn out so well.


at least she learned the birth control lesson well and followed it. if we can, we must strive to learn and do one thing, and do it well.
 
2012-10-25 07:38:06 AM  
It's sounds a little different, but involuntary discharges for single parents without a viable Family Care Plan aren't that uncommon.

We had a few guys get the boot after a divorce, and the ex-wife didn't want custody.

We had a guy whose wife had a pretty severe case of Post-Partum Depression, to the point she wasn't allowed around their kids unsupervised. I wasn't sure if she was "drown them in the bath tub crazy," but she was unstable. None of the grandparents were capable of raising small children, so he was out of the Army less than a month later.
 
2012-10-25 07:38:11 AM  
The military should not be a job corps for single parents. Heck even the married parents are a problem.

If a service memeber gets pregnant she is non-deployable for at least 9 months and depending on MOS/AFSC may be unable to do the job she was trained for, at much expense to the tax payer. That is a big chunk out a four year enlistment. Imagine if there are multiple pregnancies during her tour of duty.. Others end up carrying her share of the load as well as their own and it is not as if the military can hire a temp.

Service memebers who get preganant should be discharged with loss of all VA benefits. Motherhood and the military profession are not compatible. If you try to do both either the kids or the service gets short changed, usually both

/also against military personnel below the pay grad eof E-4 with less than four years service being allowed to marry.
 
2012-10-25 07:38:43 AM  
In other news, you can`t expect your life before having a baby to be exactly the same as your life after having a baby.

A lot of people do not realise this.
 
2012-10-25 07:40:51 AM  
Spent 21 years in the Marines. A huge percentage of our woman Marines used to get pregnant either right before or during deployments. So a unit trains together like it should, then rotates overseas with brand new replacements to fill the holes. Now that I'm out I can say it: very, very few women pull their weight in the military.
 
2012-10-25 07:41:01 AM  

Sgt Otter: It's sounds a little different, but involuntary discharges for single parents without a viable Family Care Plan aren't that uncommon.


I'm in the process of getting rid of one of my soldiers because of this. Every Friday before drill something is wrong with her kid. One drill she realized Friday night around 8pm that her kid needed surgery. Not emergency surgery, routine.
 
2012-10-25 07:41:46 AM  

david_gaithersburg: I know one girl who got pregnant to avoid being deployed. Oh she had no problem accepting money from us for her education, but when she was called upon to do her job she was all like, no way.


I know a full out open lesbian who got pregnant from a fellow soldier before a deployment (and this was during don't ask, don't tell). Which is odd, because telling her command structure that she was a lesbian should have also worked, although all the other soldiers knew about it and didn't care. Although she just may have wanted a kid anyway.
 
2012-10-25 07:42:34 AM  

hasty ambush: also against military personnel below the pay grad eof E-4 with less than four years service being allowed to marry


They get the immediate perk of getting to move out of the dorms/barracks, however they lose half of their stuff in the divorce a year or two later, kind of balances out.
 
2012-10-25 07:43:52 AM  
These whores are continually knockin' themselves up!
 
2012-10-25 07:44:35 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: Sgt Otter: It's sounds a little different, but involuntary discharges for single parents without a viable Family Care Plan aren't that uncommon.

I'm in the process of getting rid of one of my soldiers because of this. Every Friday before drill something is wrong with her kid. One drill she realized Friday night around 8pm that her kid needed surgery. Not emergency surgery, routine.


Generation Pill Popper isn't all that bright.
 
2012-10-25 07:44:43 AM  
Kredal:
So, having an abortion is against her religious beliefs?

From what I understand, it's against much of the Air Force's too. Unless it's post-natally aborting whole families of brown children, of course. Praise Jesus!
 
2012-10-25 07:46:30 AM  
I'm glad to see the common sense is thick and sturdy here. After reading wave after shuddering wave of observation gushing forth from the collective FARK loin my faith has been restored. In face, my excitement about scrolling the comments up and down, up and down, and up and down, has actually left me a little breathless and a little sleepy.


That and the idiot "Catholic" girl who couldn't keep her knees together is too stupid to get a free ride in the Air Force. Seriously--in this day and age if you get knocked up it's either because you're retarded or did it on purpose.
 
2012-10-25 07:46:43 AM  
I know of a woman who injured herself to avoid being deployed. Nothing new.
 
2012-10-25 07:48:51 AM  
Shouldn't have been whoring around.
 
2012-10-25 07:49:01 AM  
Wow... I wasn't aware of this policy. Strikes me as a bit antiquated. Deployments are difficult for anyone with any family. Like others mentioned above, in the Army you are required to have this Family Care Plan, which can be complete BS, but is an officiating document that pretty much says "this person can take care of your kid(s). I wasn't aware that the Air Force was a Judeo-Christian organization requiring marriage.

Sounds like I have some reading to do.

But yeah if can't take care of your child in your absence, well you aren't really a functional member of the Armed Forces and things expulsion (like Tat'dGreaser mentioned) can/will get put into play.
 
2012-10-25 07:49:15 AM  

david_gaithersburg: Generation Pill Popper isn't all that bright.


Thankfully we FINALLY have solid leadership and they're not taking this lightly. Also she got moved to another squad so I only have two problem kids now! Of course one is an E-5............ugh
 
2012-10-25 07:49:38 AM  

No Such Agency: Kredal:
So, having an abortion is against her religious beliefs?

From what I understand, it's against much of the Air Force's too. Unless it's post-natally aborting whole families of brown children, of course. Praise Jesus!


I think the base hospital would give an abortion if you asked for one... I'm just not sure I would trust a military doc to do it right.
 
2012-10-25 07:52:34 AM  

Kredal: No Such Agency: Kredal:
So, having an abortion is against her religious beliefs?

From what I understand, it's against much of the Air Force's too. Unless it's post-natally aborting whole families of brown children, of course. Praise Jesus!

I think the base hospital would give an abortion if you asked for one... I'm just not sure I would trust a military doc to do it right.


Why not? They're trained to kill.
/rimshot
//try the veal
 
2012-10-25 07:53:28 AM  
FTA: That was the hardest part of all of this. Someone telling me to my face that had I gotten an abortion, then I would be eligible for service.

Yes, I'm sure that was horrible for you. The sheer nerve of someone telling you that if you were no longer going to have a kid that you wouldn't end up being penalized for having a kid. Reality must be a horrible burden for you.

I don't have a problem with her fighting against the ruling - if her extended family is able to provide support for the kid, why shouldn't she have the same ability to be an officer? But the railing against the abortion angle, as if she's somehow being penalized for not having one when it's her choice not to in the first place? Yeah, idiot. Not to mention the whole "premarital sex being against the Catholic faith" angle that's already been covered.
 
2012-10-25 07:53:31 AM  

AnubisMan: hasty ambush: also against military personnel below the pay grad eof E-4 with less than four years service being allowed to marry

They get the immediate perk of getting to move out of the dorms/barracks, however they lose half of their stuff in the divorce a year or two later, kind of balances out.


My brother got married as soon as he was through Basic just for that perk, and he wound up getting divorced before his enlistment was over, so I am getting a kick out of your reply. She cheated on him, however, so he got to keep most of his stuff. He did lose the dogs, though, which kind of sucked.
 
2012-10-25 07:55:59 AM  
There are these things called CONDOMS and BIRTH CONTROL PILLS. But no, that's too tough to deal with.

RTFC (Read The farking Contract) NEXT TIME!!
 
2012-10-25 07:57:35 AM  
Where are her pictures? How can we form an opinion if we can't see how hot she is?
 
2012-10-25 07:58:16 AM  

Fark It: But they were wrong. Citing a contract she signed in 2007 when she enrolled in ROTC at age 18, the Air Force said she committed a fraud by not reporting a change in her medical condition, as indicated in the contract.

Read. Your. farking. Contract.

Is the policy fair to single parents? No. Is it fair to their children and the U.S. taxpayer? Yes.


Characterizing a failure to report some change in circumstances as agreed upon in a buried clause in a boiler plate contract signed by a woman five years ago when she was a teenager as "a fraud" is itself something close to a fraud. Fraud requires an intentional deceit, and it's not a word that should be thrown around lightly.
 
182
2012-10-25 07:58:35 AM  

Fark It: But they were wrong. Citing a contract she signed in 2007 when she enrolled in ROTC at age 18, the Air Force said she committed a fraud by not reporting a change in her medical condition, as indicated in the contract.

Read. Your. farking. Contract.

Is the policy fair to single parents? No. Is it fair to their children and the U.S. taxpayer? Yes.


it's also fair to the child. no sense in tempting making orphans.
 
2012-10-25 07:59:21 AM  

Chief_ Danz153A


Like others mentioned above, in the Army you are required to have this Family Care Plan, which can be complete BS, but is an officiating document that pretty much says "this person can take care of your kid(s). I wasn't aware that the Air Force was a Judeo-Christian organization requiring marriage.


Who said marriage is required?

The point behind the marriage statement in TFA is that if she were married her spouse would be legally on the hook to care for the child, rather than having a verbal agreement with someone else to be a caretaker (grandparent, sibling, what have you) in case of deployment.
 
2012-10-25 08:00:34 AM  
Too irresponsible to plan a pregnancy?

Too irresponsible to be in the air force.
 
2012-10-25 08:05:36 AM  

hasty ambush: Service memebers who get preganant should be discharged with loss of all VA benefits. Motherhood and the military profession are not compatible. If you try to do both either the kids or the service gets short changed, usually both


Well, except if they're imprisoned at the time, or raped.

but mind you ... only 'legitimate rape' which , as we all know, doesn't lead to pregnancy.
 
2012-10-25 08:05:50 AM  

sodomizer: Too irresponsible to plan a pregnancy?

Too irresponsible to be in the air force.or be a parent


FTFY
 
2012-10-25 08:06:20 AM  

Oblio13: Spent 21 years in the Marines. A huge percentage of our woman Marines used to get pregnant either right before or during deployments. So a unit trains together like it should, then rotates overseas with brand new replacements to fill the holes. Now that I'm out I can say it: very, very few women pull their weight in the military.


My mom spent 24 years in the military, retired as a sgt. maj. She deployed around the world. She was an outstanding soldier and she joined as a single mother. I deplored to saudi and kosovo with female soldiers and pilots. Not one of them had their tours shortened for pregnancy. We did lose a few men to "stress" though. Just because youre a misogynistic douche doesn't mean reality reflects your "he man woman hater's club" mentality.

As far as the article goes, this woman is dishonest. She attempted to defraud the american people and manipulate the air force, now that she is being revealed for the morally bankrupt person she is, she is attempting to manipulate public opinion by turning a "you dishonestly violated a contract" situation into a "ZOMG the government wants to force me to have ABORTIONS". She has no honor, I hope she does jail time.
 
2012-10-25 08:06:30 AM  
I wish the USA would just establish a decent welfare state--with maternity/paternity leave, subsidized child care, affordable university education, etc.--so that working class people wouldn't join the military thinking it's their only route to the public services that people in most industrialized countries take for granted.

The military should be a *last resort* employment option for single men who don't fit in anywhere else. It's not a damn social services agency or Junior Year Abroad program.
 
2012-10-25 08:07:19 AM  
"That was before she says she learned the Air Force forbid single parents from enlisting. "

I sure it also has something to do with not wanting to have a bunch of orphans if mom or dad gets shot. Losing one parent is bad enough, I don't think the army wants to be seen as having killed a bunch of single moms.
 
2012-10-25 08:07:36 AM  

indylaw


Characterizing a failure to report some change in circumstances as agreed upon in a buried clause in a boiler plate contract signed by a woman five years ago when she was a teenager as "a fraud" is itself something close to a fraud. Fraud requires an intentional deceit, and it's not a word that should be thrown around lightly.


1) The teenager person of age to execute a binding contract was happy enough to sign on the line when it meant she had a 4-year scholarship.

2) She's quoted in TFA as explicitly deciding not to disclose the change in status as required. Besides, it's an amazing coincidence that she happened to become unable to serve after she completed school and just before she was required to start fulfilling her obligation; I would be following up on the fraud angle, too.
 
2012-10-25 08:09:22 AM  

Mad_Radhu: AnubisMan: hasty ambush: also against military personnel below the pay grad eof E-4 with less than four years service being allowed to marry

They get the immediate perk of getting to move out of the dorms/barracks, however they lose half of their stuff in the divorce a year or two later, kind of balances out.

My brother got married as soon as he was through Basic just for that perk, and he wound up getting divorced before his enlistment was over, so I am getting a kick out of your reply. She cheated on him, however, so he got to keep most of his stuff. He did lose the dogs, though, which kind of sucked.


A guy I was stationed with got married and divorced 3 times in 4 years, and each time he would just walk out to his truck and drive away and start over. He'd leave 'em with everything, said it was less hassle.
 
2012-10-25 08:09:53 AM  

indylaw: Fark It: But they were wrong. Citing a contract she signed in 2007 when she enrolled in ROTC at age 18, the Air Force said she committed a fraud by not reporting a change in her medical condition, as indicated in the contract.

Read. Your. farking. Contract.

Is the policy fair to single parents? No. Is it fair to their children and the U.S. taxpayer? Yes.

Characterizing a failure to report some change in circumstances as agreed upon in a buried clause in a boiler plate contract signed by a woman five years ago when she was a teenager as "a fraud" is itself something close to a fraud. Fraud requires an intentional deceit, and it's not a word that should be thrown around lightly.


She was an adult when she signed the contract and it's made very clear that you need to report any change in medical condition to the proper authorities. Pregnancy is a big farking change in your medical condition. She knows exactly what she's doing, she's trolling the Air Force at the expense of the taxpayer.
 
2012-10-25 08:12:07 AM  

Bender The Offender: Oblio13: Spent 21 years in the Marines. A huge percentage of our woman Marines used to get pregnant either right before or during deployments. So a unit trains together like it should, then rotates overseas with brand new replacements to fill the holes. Now that I'm out I can say it: very, very few women pull their weight in the military.

My mom spent 24 years in the military, retired as a sgt. maj. She deployed around the world. She was an outstanding soldier and she joined as a single mother. I deplored to saudi and kosovo with female soldiers and pilots. Not one of them had their tours shortened for pregnancy. We did lose a few men to "stress" though. Just because youre a misogynistic douche doesn't mean reality reflects your "he man woman hater's club" mentality.

As far as the article goes, this woman is dishonest. She attempted to defraud the american people and manipulate the air force, now that she is being revealed for the morally bankrupt person she is, she is attempting to manipulate public opinion by turning a "you dishonestly violated a contract" situation into a "ZOMG the government wants to force me to have ABORTIONS". She has no honor, I hope she does jail time.


"My personal anecdote is clearly more relevant then your personal anecdote!"
 
2012-10-25 08:13:36 AM  
Everybody is ignoring the real stupidity here: paying $92 large for an undergraduate degree from a third-rate Jesuit school.
 
2012-10-25 08:14:08 AM  

Bender The Offender: Oblio13: Spent 21 years in the Marines. A huge percentage of our woman Marines used to get pregnant either right before or during deployments. So a unit trains together like it should, then rotates overseas with brand new replacements to fill the holes. Now that I'm out I can say it: very, very few women pull their weight in the military.

My mom spent 24 years in the military, retired as a sgt. maj. She deployed around the world. She was an outstanding soldier and she joined as a single mother. I deplored to saudi and kosovo with female soldiers and pilots. Not one of them had their tours shortened for pregnancy. We did lose a few men to "stress" though. Just because youre a misogynistic douche doesn't mean reality reflects your "he man woman hater's club" mentality.

As far as the article goes, this woman is dishonest. She attempted to defraud the american people and manipulate the air force, now that she is being revealed for the morally bankrupt person she is, she is attempting to manipulate public opinion by turning a "you dishonestly violated a contract" situation into a "ZOMG the government wants to force me to have ABORTIONS". She has no honor, I hope she does jail time.


.
You had me until you declared that no women had their tours shortened. But to be fair Kosovo was before Generation Baby Daddy/Generation Pill Popper, so perhaps you are telling the truth.
 
2012-10-25 08:16:44 AM  

Englebert Slaptyback: indylaw

Characterizing a failure to report some change in circumstances as agreed upon in a buried clause in a boiler plate contract signed by a woman five years ago when she was a teenager as "a fraud" is itself something close to a fraud. Fraud requires an intentional deceit, and it's not a word that should be thrown around lightly.


1) The teenager person of age to execute a binding contract was happy enough to sign on the line when it meant she had a 4-year scholarship.

2) She's quoted in TFA as explicitly deciding not to disclose the change in status as required. Besides, it's an amazing coincidence that she happened to become unable to serve after she completed school and just before she was required to start fulfilling her obligation; I would be following up on the fraud angle, too.


This is the meat of why this is big deal in the military. Military members are supposed to be worldwide deployable 24/7/365. Any condition that could potentially change your deployability status has to be notified to your chain of command ASAP, usually taken care of by the MTF you're required to see in the event of a medical change of status. The military is pretty good about treating and moving on with temporary conditions, but once you have a permanent condition there's a decent change of going through a med board.

Even though she wasn't under much threat to deploy, the fact that the expectation is there and she deprived her chain of command of her inability to deploy is grounds enough to boot her if they have legal authority to do so.
 
2012-10-25 08:17:34 AM  

Bhruic: I don't have a problem with her fighting against the ruling - if her extended family is able to provide support for the kid, why shouldn't she have the same ability to be an officer?


She hid her medical condition, and took an oath knowing she wasn't being honest about her position, and now she is blaming others for her perdicament. That tells me she doesn't have the ability to be a good oficer.

On top of that her pregnency woudl have fallen when either she was supposed to be on soem type of summer tour or when her college classes were being paid for. Either way the govt would be wasting money on her for those times.
 
2012-10-25 08:18:37 AM  

Englebert Slaptyback: indylaw

Characterizing a failure to report some change in circumstances as agreed upon in a buried clause in a boiler plate contract signed by a woman five years ago when she was a teenager as "a fraud" is itself something close to a fraud. Fraud requires an intentional deceit, and it's not a word that should be thrown around lightly.


1) The teenager person of age to execute a binding contract was happy enough to sign on the line when it meant she had a 4-year scholarship.

2) She's quoted in TFA as explicitly deciding not to disclose the change in status as required. Besides, it's an amazing coincidence that she happened to become unable to serve after she completed school and just before she was required to start fulfilling her obligation; I would be following up on the fraud angle, too.


There's a difference between saying "I knew there was a policy against being a single mom, so I didn't tell them right away," which is what she is cited as saying, and "I know that Paragraph 39, subclause g of that contract I signed five years ago specifically states, and I quote, I must immediately report that I am a pregnant single mother to the Air Force etc. etc." and I decided not to do so because fark Uncle Sam, that's why.

I bet there's stuff in your lease agreement or mortgage that you don't have devoted to memory. If you fail to fulfill those conditions, you probably breached a contract, but you didn't commit "a fraud".

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a commonsense policy not to have single mothers in the armed services. I just object to the characterization of this as "fraud." Fraud is when you knowingly communicate a falsehood in order to bilk someone out of some benefit that you wouldn't have received if you had not told them a lie. Negligent misrepresentation? Maybe.
 
2012-10-25 08:23:13 AM  
Fighter aircraft with baby seats would be awesome.
 
2012-10-25 08:24:06 AM  

dready zim: In other news, you can`t expect your life before having a baby to be exactly the same as your life after having a baby.

A lot of people do not realise this.


Seconded. This attitude of "I can have it all, and all right now" is way out of control. And if this chick had applied an ounce of reason, she might comprehend the long-term effects of the military tolerating her decisions. Shiat rolls down hill.

Or maybe, they should just put her in charge of a whole bunch of single parents and see how easy her life becomes. For every responsible one, she'll probably have 2 or 3 that just continually expect accommodation. Just like in civilian life.
 
2012-10-25 08:25:11 AM  

indylaw: Don't get me wrong, I think it's a commonsense policy not to have single mothers in the armed services. I just object to the characterization of this as "fraud." Fraud is when you knowingly communicate a falsehood in order to bilk someone out of some benefit that you wouldn't have received if you had not told them a lie. Negligent misrepresentation? Maybe.


Yea I say cut her loose but going after a fraud charge is a waste of time.
 
2012-10-25 08:25:50 AM  
She's an officer and a nurse, you idiots.
Let her serve or STFU.

/Nothing to see here.
 
2012-10-25 08:25:52 AM  

indylaw: Englebert Slaptyback: indylaw

Characterizing a failure to report some change in circumstances as agreed upon in a buried clause in a boiler plate contract signed by a woman five years ago when she was a teenager as "a fraud" is itself something close to a fraud. Fraud requires an intentional deceit, and it's not a word that should be thrown around lightly.


1) The teenager person of age to execute a binding contract was happy enough to sign on the line when it meant she had a 4-year scholarship.

2) She's quoted in TFA as explicitly deciding not to disclose the change in status as required. Besides, it's an amazing coincidence that she happened to become unable to serve after she completed school and just before she was required to start fulfilling her obligation; I would be following up on the fraud angle, too.

There's a difference between saying "I knew there was a policy against being a single mom, so I didn't tell them right away," which is what she is cited as saying, and "I know that Paragraph 39, subclause g of that contract I signed five years ago specifically states, and I quote, I must immediately report that I am a pregnant single mother to the Air Force etc. etc." and I decided not to do so because fark Uncle Sam, that's why.

I bet there's stuff in your lease agreement or mortgage that you don't have devoted to memory. If you fail to fulfill those conditions, you probably breached a contract, but you didn't commit "a fraud".

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a commonsense policy not to have single mothers in the armed services. I just object to the characterization of this as "fraud." Fraud is when you knowingly communicate a falsehood in order to bilk someone out of some benefit that you wouldn't have received if you had not told them a lie. Negligent misrepresentation? Maybe.


As I recall, even though I was only a Reservist, these sorts of things are communicated and communicated clearly. She knew she had to report and failed to do so. It's entirely possible that she had other things going on as well as this was the straw, but that's not particularly relevant.

Also, military law != civilian law.
 
2012-10-25 08:25:58 AM  

david_gaithersburg: Bender The Offender: Oblio13: Spent 21 years in the Marines. A huge percentage of our woman Marines used to get pregnant either right before or during deployments. So a unit trains together like it should, then rotates overseas with brand new replacements to fill the holes. Now that I'm out I can say it: very, very few women pull their weight in the military.

My mom spent 24 years in the military, retired as a sgt. maj. She deployed around the world. She was an outstanding soldier and she joined as a single mother. I deplored to saudi and kosovo with female soldiers and pilots. Not one of them had their tours shortened for pregnancy. We did lose a few men to "stress" though. Just because youre a misogynistic douche doesn't mean reality reflects your "he man woman hater's club" mentality.

As far as the article goes, this woman is dishonest. She attempted to defraud the american people and manipulate the air force, now that she is being revealed for the morally bankrupt person she is, she is attempting to manipulate public opinion by turning a "you dishonestly violated a contract" situation into a "ZOMG the government wants to force me to have ABORTIONS". She has no honor, I hope she does jail time.

.
You had me until you declared that no women had their tours shortened. But to be fair Kosovo was before Generation Baby Daddy/Generation Pill Popper, so perhaps you are telling the truth.


Perhaps I should have specified "in my unit". I know there were incidents were some females were sent home for pregnancies, just not from my units.
 
2012-10-25 08:27:49 AM  

SnarfVader: /Sorry, lady. You don't get to play by a different set of rules from everybody else in the military.


Yes, I've seen lots of pregnant males in the Air Force nurse corps.

/You're realize that you're saying that pregnant males should be treated the same as pregnant females.
 
2012-10-25 08:29:02 AM  

Bender The Offender: david_gaithersburg: Bender The Offender: Oblio13: Spent 21 years in the Marines. A huge percentage of our woman Marines used to get pregnant either right before or during deployments. So a unit trains together like it should, then rotates overseas with brand new replacements to fill the holes. Now that I'm out I can say it: very, very few women pull their weight in the military.

My mom spent 24 years in the military, retired as a sgt. maj. She deployed around the world. She was an outstanding soldier and she joined as a single mother. I deplored to saudi and kosovo with female soldiers and pilots. Not one of them had their tours shortened for pregnancy. We did lose a few men to "stress" though. Just because youre a misogynistic douche doesn't mean reality reflects your "he man woman hater's club" mentality.

As far as the article goes, this woman is dishonest. She attempted to defraud the american people and manipulate the air force, now that she is being revealed for the morally bankrupt person she is, she is attempting to manipulate public opinion by turning a "you dishonestly violated a contract" situation into a "ZOMG the government wants to force me to have ABORTIONS". She has no honor, I hope she does jail time.

.
You had me until you declared that no women had their tours shortened. But to be fair Kosovo was before Generation Baby Daddy/Generation Pill Popper, so perhaps you are telling the truth.

Perhaps I should have specified "in my unit". I know there were incidents were some females were sent home for pregnancies, just not from my units.


So what you're saying is, when it came to your unit, there was no chance a woman got pregnant?
 
2012-10-25 08:30:52 AM  
MotherGoose, talk to me!
 
2012-10-25 08:30:53 AM  

Fark It: Bender The Offender: Oblio13: Spent 21 years in the Marines. A huge percentage of our woman Marines used to get pregnant either right before or during deployments. So a unit trains together like it should, then rotates overseas with brand new replacements to fill the holes. Now that I'm out I can say it: very, very few women pull their weight in the military.

My mom spent 24 years in the military, retired as a sgt. maj. She deployed around the world. She was an outstanding soldier and she joined as a single mother. I deplored to saudi and kosovo with female soldiers and pilots. Not one of them had their tours shortened for pregnancy. We did lose a few men to "stress" though. Just because youre a misogynistic douche doesn't mean reality reflects your "he man woman hater's club" mentality.

As far as the article goes, this woman is dishonest. She attempted to defraud the american people and manipulate the air force, now that she is being revealed for the morally bankrupt person she is, she is attempting to manipulate public opinion by turning a "you dishonestly violated a contract" situation into a "ZOMG the government wants to force me to have ABORTIONS". She has no honor, I hope she does jail time.

"My personal anecdote is clearly more relevant then your personal anecdote!"


Yes, "how dare someone object to painting all women that serve in the military as incompetent whores by countering personal tales with tales to the contrary". Wow, thank you for that valuable insight. It's like you said what I did, but acted like it had any official went other than my own personal experiences. I tell you, you have a gift, to be so insightful, maybe you should do some sort of research that can benefit from your super human ability to state the obvious.
 
2012-10-25 08:31:04 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: SnarfVader: /Sorry, lady. You don't get to play by a different set of rules from everybody else in the military.

Yes, I've seen lots of pregnant males in the Air Force nurse corps.

/You're realize that you're saying that pregnant males should be treated the same as pregnant females.


Because we're totally talking about her being discharged for being preggers rather than her being discharged because she omitted relevant information from her chain of command which would get any serviceman/woman in loads of trouble.
 
2012-10-25 08:32:43 AM  

hasty ambush: The military should not be a job corps for single parents. Heck even the married parents are a problem.

If a service memeber gets pregnant she is non-deployable for at least 9 months and depending on MOS/AFSC may be unable to do the job she was trained for, at much expense to the tax payer. That is a big chunk out a four year enlistment. Imagine if there are multiple pregnancies during her tour of duty.. Others end up carrying her share of the load as well as their own and it is not as if the military can hire a temp.

Service memebers who get preganant should be discharged with loss of all VA benefits. Motherhood and the military profession are not compatible. If you try to do both either the kids or the service gets short changed, usually both

/also against military personnel below the pay grad eof E-4 with less than four years service being allowed to marry.


/CSB start

I was a 2A373A (F-15 crew chief) back in the early 2000's and we had a girl who came in and didn't like being a mechanic so she got pregnant about a year into her first enlistment. She proceeded to have the kid and the Air Force allowed her to stay in debrief (where the pilots go after flight to report problems, etc) for 12 months because of something about the hydraulic fluid being absorbed by the skin and passed on to the child. So, lo and behold, near the end of that 12 months she announces she's pregnant again and we kept her in debrief for her entire pregnancy and right before she gave birth to the second child she applied for cross training as a recruiter and accepted. So, the Air Force doesn't hate pregnant women, there's a complete game you can play if you want. This girl managed to get in one of the career fields that was on stop loss at the time, spend 3 months of her first enlistment doing her actual job, then managed to avoid any kind of flight line work for the next 2 years before getting reassigned. If anyone, take advice from her on how to join the military if you want kids too, lol.

//end CSB
 
2012-10-25 08:32:47 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: SnarfVader: /Sorry, lady. You don't get to play by a different set of rules from everybody else in the military.

Yes, I've seen lots of pregnant males in the Air Force nurse corps.

/You're realize that you're saying that pregnant males should be treated the same as pregnant females.


No, he is saying that single fathers are treated the exact same as single mothers. If a father has sole custody of a child through divorce or his spouse's death, he would get the boot just as quickly. (several posters have already mentioned examples of this)
 
2012-10-25 08:33:50 AM  
Worked with a girl who had been in the air force. She became pregnant 2 months in. They gave her the option to sign full custody of the child over to it's father (she was not married) or another family member. She wasn't kicked out. She made the decision she wanted. I'm sure the exact same thing happened with this woman.
 
2012-10-25 08:34:04 AM  

indylaw


There's a difference between saying "I knew there was a policy against being a single mom, so I didn't tell them right away," which is what she is cited as saying, and "I know that Paragraph 39, subclause g of that contract I signed five years ago specifically states, and I quote, I must immediately report that I am a pregnant single mother to the Air Force etc. etc." and I decided not to do so because fark Uncle Sam, that's why.

I bet there's stuff in your lease agreement or mortgage that you don't have devoted to memory. If you fail to fulfill those conditions, you probably breached a contract, but you didn't commit "a fraud".

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a commonsense policy not to have single mothers in the armed services. I just object to the characterization of this as "fraud." Fraud is when you knowingly communicate a falsehood in order to bilk someone out of some benefit that you wouldn't have received if you had not told them a lie. Negligent misrepresentation? Maybe.


You might not have experienced this, but all of the requirements for receiving (and keeping) ROTC scholarship money are made abundantly clear to freshman cadets. The change in status clause would not have been buried in "Paragraph 39, subclause g"; it would have been right up front.

Re-read my last paragraph about the amazing coincidence. It would be very easy to make the plausible case that she always intended to get pregnant post-school/pre-serve and thus the original signing of the contract was indeed fraudulent, since she never intended to fulfill her side of the bargain but wanted to receive the benefit of the funding.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-10-25 08:35:43 AM  

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: It's not like the Air Force tells people these things, or she could've ever done anything to prevent pregnancy.


Well, if you fark with God's will you get raped according to that Morlock guy.
 
2012-10-25 08:35:45 AM  

Seacop: Bender The Offender: david_gaithersburg: Bender The Offender: Oblio13: Spent 21 years in the Marines. A huge percentage of our woman Marines used to get pregnant either right before or during deployments. So a unit trains together like it should, then rotates overseas with brand new replacements to fill the holes. Now that I'm out I can say it: very, very few women pull their weight in the military.

My mom spent 24 years in the military, retired as a sgt. maj. She deployed around the world. She was an outstanding soldier and she joined as a single mother. I deplored to saudi and kosovo with female soldiers and pilots. Not one of them had their tours shortened for pregnancy. We did lose a few men to "stress" though. Just because youre a misogynistic douche doesn't mean reality reflects your "he man woman hater's club" mentality.

As far as the article goes, this woman is dishonest. She attempted to defraud the american people and manipulate the air force, now that she is being revealed for the morally bankrupt person she is, she is attempting to manipulate public opinion by turning a "you dishonestly violated a contract" situation into a "ZOMG the government wants to force me to have ABORTIONS". She has no honor, I hope she does jail time.

.
You had me until you declared that no women had their tours shortened. But to be fair Kosovo was before Generation Baby Daddy/Generation Pill Popper, so perhaps you are telling the truth.

Perhaps I should have specified "in my unit". I know there were incidents were some females were sent home for pregnancies, just not from my units.

So what you're saying is, when it came to your unit, there was no chance a woman got pregnant?


We were a medivac unit, mostly 91 charlies, doctors, and nurses. I'm pretty sure the possibility existed. The reality is, not one person was sent home for pregnancy during our deployment. What is your point exactly? What question are you begging?
 
2012-10-25 08:36:19 AM  

omnimancer28: No, he is saying that single fathers are treated the exact same as single mothers. If a father has sole custody of a child through divorce or his spouse's death, he would get the boot just as quickly. (several posters have already mentioned examples of this)


Not really. What it means is that the armed services are just as stupid as ever.
Like Lockheed Martin, they never forget whose money they're wasting.

But impoverishing a single mom by putting her into debt and tossing a motivated commissioned officer out of the only career she ever wanted seems like the right thing to do, right?
Farking idiots.
 
2012-10-25 08:36:44 AM  

ronaprhys:
Don't get me wrong, I think it's a commonsense policy not to have single mothers in the armed services. I just object to the characterization of this as "fraud." Fraud is when you knowingly communicate a falsehood in order to bilk someone out of some benefit that you wouldn't have received if you had not told them a lie. Negligent misrepresentation? Maybe.

As I recall, even though I was only a Reservist, these sorts of things are communicated and communicated clearly. She knew she had to report and failed to do so. I ...


This may come as a shock to you, as it does to many, but even in law (even in *military* law), words have meaning. You can't say "she's a murderer!" when what you really mean is that some guy ran out right in front of her car and she didn't see him in time to hit the brakes. Even if you use "military law" as a copout. You don't say "she's a thief" if she gets the wrong (but similar) coat from the coat check and doesn't realize the error until she gets home.

There's no question that she was required by military regulations to report her pregnancy and didn't. That doesn't mean that she committed fraud to obtain a scholarship, which is what the military lawyers are claiming.

You could make that argument if you could demonstrate that even though she wasn't pregnant in 2007 when she signed the contract, she intended when she signed the contract to get some guy to knock her up a few years later and she was going to lie about it and game the system so that she could get a scholarship to college but avoid having to serve in the Air Force. But a breach of contract doesn't magically become fraud because some JAG prosecutor says so.
 
2012-10-25 08:37:45 AM  
The Navy doesn't kick you, they make you prepare with a Family Care Plan. I imagine the other branches do the same.

That was the biggest WTF moment for me reading that verbal diarrhea. Too much derp in that article to address it all, though... Sweet baby Jebus in his manger.

/In other military news, officers don't enlist. Enlisted members enlist... Crazy, right?
 
2012-10-25 08:38:19 AM  

Englebert Slaptyback: It would be very easy to make the plausible case that she always intended to get pregnant post-school/pre-serve and thus the original signing of the contract was indeed fraudulent, since she never intended to fulfill her side of the bargain but wanted to receive the benefit of the funding.


Arguments are usually accompanied by evidence beyond "Wow, isn't this convenient!"
 
2012-10-25 08:38:25 AM  

Bender The Offender: Seacop: Bender The Offender: david_gaithersburg: Bender The Offender: Oblio13: Spent 21 years in the Marines. A huge percentage of our woman Marines used to get pregnant either right before or during deployments. So a unit trains together like it should, then rotates overseas with brand new replacements to fill the holes. Now that I'm out I can say it: very, very few women pull their weight in the military.

My mom spent 24 years in the military, retired as a sgt. maj. She deployed around the world. She was an outstanding soldier and she joined as a single mother. I deplored to saudi and kosovo with female soldiers and pilots. Not one of them had their tours shortened for pregnancy. We did lose a few men to "stress" though. Just because youre a misogynistic douche doesn't mean reality reflects your "he man woman hater's club" mentality.

As far as the article goes, this woman is dishonest. She attempted to defraud the american people and manipulate the air force, now that she is being revealed for the morally bankrupt person she is, she is attempting to manipulate public opinion by turning a "you dishonestly violated a contract" situation into a "ZOMG the government wants to force me to have ABORTIONS". She has no honor, I hope she does jail time.

.
You had me until you declared that no women had their tours shortened. But to be fair Kosovo was before Generation Baby Daddy/Generation Pill Popper, so perhaps you are telling the truth.

Perhaps I should have specified "in my unit". I know there were incidents were some females were sent home for pregnancies, just not from my units.

So what you're saying is, when it came to your unit, there was no chance a woman got pregnant?

We were a medivac unit, mostly 91 charlies, doctors, and nurses. I'm pretty sure the possibility existed. The reality is, not one person was sent home for pregnancy during our deployment. What is your point exactly? What question are you begging?


My point, would be that with no pregnancies we can deduce, when it came to your unit the women just weren't interested in sexual activities
 
2012-10-25 08:38:57 AM  

EZ Writer: The Navy doesn't kick you, they make you prepare with a Family Care Plan. I imagine the other branches do the same.

That was the biggest WTF moment for me reading that verbal diarrhea. Too much derp in that article to address it all, though... Sweet baby Jebus in his manger.

/In other military news, officers don't enlist. Enlisted members enlist... Crazy, right?



Let me clarify, because this is Fark... The Navy doesn't kick you, unless you do not comply with their more-than-fail policy.
 
2012-10-25 08:39:40 AM  

EZ Writer: EZ Writer: The Navy doesn't kick you, they make you prepare with a Family Care Plan. I imagine the other branches do the same.

That was the biggest WTF moment for me reading that verbal diarrhea. Too much derp in that article to address it all, though... Sweet baby Jebus in his manger.

/In other military news, officers don't enlist. Enlisted members enlist... Crazy, right?


Let me clarify, because this is Fark... The Navy doesn't kick you, unless you do not comply with their more-than-fail policy.


*Fail = fair.

Off to the coffee pot...
 
2012-10-25 08:39:59 AM  

Fark It: Bender The Offender: Oblio13: Spent 21 years in the Marines. A huge percentage of our woman Marines used to get pregnant either right before or during deployments. So a unit trains together like it should, then rotates overseas with brand new replacements to fill the holes. Now that I'm out I can say it: very, very few women pull their weight in the military.

My mom spent 24 years in the military, retired as a sgt. maj. She deployed around the world. She was an outstanding soldier and she joined as a single mother. I deplored to saudi and kosovo with female soldiers and pilots. Not one of them had their tours shortened for pregnancy. We did lose a few men to "stress" though. Just because youre a misogynistic douche doesn't mean reality reflects your "he man woman hater's club" mentality.

As far as the article goes, this woman is dishonest. She attempted to defraud the american people and manipulate the air force, now that she is being revealed for the morally bankrupt person she is, she is attempting to manipulate public opinion by turning a "you dishonestly violated a contract" situation into a "ZOMG the government wants to force me to have ABORTIONS". She has no honor, I hope she does jail time.

"My personal anecdote is clearly more relevant then your personal anecdote!"


In my experience it wasn't that women could not handle the military, it was that men could not deal with the women in the military. Things like a guy standing near the front of a 45 minute long chow line sees a random woman walking past and offers to let her jump in line ahead of him. He'd almost never make that offer to a guy, but who could blame her for taking the offer, but the guy way in the back is mad at her for getting a shortcut. Something heavy needs to be moved? Some guy will offer to do it and every other guy around accuses her of not pulling her weight...but trust me, some guy offers to pick up a 100lb safety relief valve for me, I'm letting him. I did a rough job in a rough environment where there were no women. There were about 20 guys working there and 3 of us did the vast majority of the low level jobs while you could find at least 6 people sitting under a vent at any given time of the work day.

There will always be slackers and workers and I suspect the ratio is about the same for women as it is for men.

tldr: Lazy farkers are everywhere
 
2012-10-25 08:40:39 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: omnimancer28: No, he is saying that single fathers are treated the exact same as single mothers. If a father has sole custody of a child through divorce or his spouse's death, he would get the boot just as quickly. (several posters have already mentioned examples of this)

Not really. What it means is that the armed services are just as stupid as ever.
Like Lockheed Martin, they never forget whose money they're wasting.

But impoverishing a single mom by putting her into debt and tossing a motivated commissioned officer out of the only career she ever wanted seems like the right thing to do, right?
Farking idiots.


She had the choice to be put on medical leave and then provide a stable situation for the child. If she married, adopted, or signed over custody of the child to the father (who the article even says is prepared to care for the kid) she could have remained in the service. It is not in the military or child's best interest to have a deployed mother with no other legal guardian.
 
2012-10-25 08:41:06 AM  

Englebert Slaptyback: It would be very easy to make the plausible case that she always intended to get pregnant post-school/pre-serve and thus the original signing of the contract was indeed fraudulent, since she never intended to fulfill her side of the bargain but wanted to receive the benefit of the funding.


Why the fark would she want to be on the hook for more than $93K (plus interest, without a doubt)?

/Dunning Kruger is in full play in this thread insofar as many of the commenters think they are super duper smart.
 
2012-10-25 08:42:50 AM  

liam76: Bhruic: I don't have a problem with her fighting against the ruling - if her extended family is able to provide support for the kid, why shouldn't she have the same ability to be an officer?

She hid her medical condition, and took an oath knowing she wasn't being honest about her position, and now she is blaming others for her perdicament. That tells me she doesn't have the ability to be a good oficer.

On top of that her pregnency woudl have fallen when either she was supposed to be on soem type of summer tour or when her college classes were being paid for. Either way the govt would be wasting money on her for those times.


Yes, I understand that she was dishonest, and I agree she should suffer the consequences of that. But at the same time, if she's been advised that she can't continue if she's a single parent, it tends to incentivise not reporting your pregnancy. Fighting against the policy makes sense (assuming it's a bad policy, and I'm not in a position to comment on that), but even if successful shouldn't mean that she gets off the hook.
 
2012-10-25 08:44:31 AM  
I'm female. I'm a Mom. I consider myself to be fairly feminist. And I am absolutely okay with the decision to dismiss this young lady from the military. A child does not raise itself. Any single parent, whether it is a single Mom or a Dad who is a widower, for instance; should be released from military duty so that child can have a parent.

If an individual feels strongly that military service is more important in his or her life than parenting his or her child, then that individual should place the child for adoption. The child might be adopted by his or her grandparents rather than placed with an entirely new family, but custody of the child should be transferred to someone who is willing to do the work of parenting the child.

The well-meaning, but misguided attorney representing this young lady does not fully understand what the consequences could be should she win this case. Imagine not just unwed parents, but individuals who have lost a spouse facing not the privilege, but the requirement to remain in the military and thus being deprived of the right to parent his or her child. I feel confident that it would be a very short walk from allowing single parents to requiring single parents to remain in the military. This young lady and her attorney think they are advocating for womens' rights. Really, they are advocating for the destruction of parental rights for both men and women. This young woman and her attorney are probably good, decent people with good intentions, but they are wrong and, per my grandmother, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
 
2012-10-25 08:45:30 AM  
If its a legitimate enlistment the body has ways of shutting this down.

Sorry honey, looks legit.
 
2012-10-25 08:45:44 AM  
The deception with tact Just what are you trying to say?
You've got a blank face, which irritates Communicate, pull out your party piece
You see dimensions in two State your case with black or white
But when one little cross leads to shots, grit your teeth You run for cover so discreet

Why don't they do what you say? Say what you mean oh, babe One Discharge leads to another.
 
2012-10-25 08:45:52 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Englebert Slaptyback: It would be very easy to make the plausible case that she always intended to get pregnant post-school/pre-serve and thus the original signing of the contract was indeed fraudulent, since she never intended to fulfill her side of the bargain but wanted to receive the benefit of the funding.

Why the fark would she want to be on the hook for more than $93K (plus interest, without a doubt)?

/Dunning Kruger is in full play in this thread insofar as many of the commenters think they are super duper smart.


The military didn't pay for her to go to school so she could have a kid and have no other means other than her to care for it. The military paid for her to go to school so she could fulfill her service commitment to do her job and deploy as required. If she can't hold up her end of the deal, neither should the military.
 
2012-10-25 08:45:55 AM  

indylaw: This may come as a shock to you, as it does to many, but even in law (even in *military* law), words have meaning. You can't say "she's a murderer!" when what you really mean is that some guy ran out right in front of her car and she didn't see him in time to hit the brakes. Even if you use "military law" as a copout. You don't say "she's a thief" if she gets the wrong (but similar) coat from the coat check and doesn't realize the error until she gets home.


Actually, I can say whatever in the shiat I want. What you meant to say is that I shouldn't. Remember, words have meaning.

There's no question that she was required by military regulations to report her pregnancy and didn't. That doesn't mean that she committed fraud to obtain a scholarship, which is what the military lawyers are claiming.

They get to claim whatever they want - it's up to the court to decide if they're correct. Maybe you would've learned that in law school?

You could make that argument if you could demonstrate that even though she wasn't pregnant in 2007 when she signed the contract, she intended when she signed the contract to get some guy to knock her up a few years later and she was going to lie about it and game the system so that she could get a scholarship to college but avoid having to serve in the Air Force. But a breach of contract doesn't magically become fraud because some JAG prosecutor says so.

In all honesty, and snark aside, we'd have to have all of the relevant facts to make a true argument as to whether or not this is fraud or not. We don't have that. However, I've no issue with them pursuing this as fraud.
 
2012-10-25 08:46:45 AM  
When my Guard MP unit deployed in fall of 2010, we had 5 females get pregnant and taken off the deployment within a few months of leaving, and 2 more get pregnant in country and sent home. I'm getting ready to deploy again with another MP unit in my state and 1 female has already gotten pregnant and moved to the rear detachment platoon that's staying behind. I'm betting she won't be the last. It's a ready-made "get out of deployment free" card and the female soldiers know it. Most will still deploy, but a fair amount use their gender to bend/break the rules often enough that it's a problem. I think the fact that there aren't really any consequences is the real problem. They don't lose their $20,000 bonuses, college money, not even an Article 15. Just taken off the deployment and spend the year drilling in state instead like always. All the benefits of enlisting, but when the time comes to answer the call, they just decide they don't feel like coming, get knocked up and get to stay home soaking up the paychecks instead. Thought, it might be for the best. I wouldn't want to be around most of them in combat anyways.

To be fair, last time we had one male soldier use the "I'm gonna kill myself" excuse and was pulled off the deployment at the last minute. Not sure if he was making it up, but either way, he didn't have to deploy. I bet there will be at least one more of those this time too.
 
2012-10-25 08:47:04 AM  

shotglasss: FTA: Abortion was never an option, she said, because of her Catholic faith and her personal beliefs.

I'm not Catholic, but I'm pretty sure that getting knocked up before getting hitched doesn't jibe with the Catholic faith.


I came to say this. Not very Catholic.
 
2012-10-25 08:47:14 AM  

Sgt Otter: We had a few guys get the boot after a divorce, and the ex-wife didn't want custody


Wow, that possibility never occurred to me. I wonder how many of these women were secretly still in love with their husbands and crazy determined to remove them from a potentially deadly situation?
 
2012-10-25 08:47:14 AM  

indylaw


Arguments are usually accompanied by evidence beyond "Wow, isn't this convenient!"


True, but it certainly does shout MOTIVE loudly and clearly, and her father would be in a good position to advise her on the best way to get the scholarship and not end up (potentially) in harm's way.

I'm fairly certain that the woman in TFA would not want to go through the required investigation: questions about how long she and her boyfriend were having unprotected sex and what she and her father may or may not have discussed via email could be problematic.

As mentioned upthread, military law is not quite the same as civilian law, so the investigation might not look like what you would expect.
 
2012-10-25 08:48:22 AM  

Bhruic: But at the same time, if she's been advised that she can't continue if she's a single parent, it tends to incentivise not reporting your pregnancy.


It only incentivises it if you plan on aborting the baby, because that isn't soemthingt hat you can hide.


Bhruic: Fighting against the policy makes sense (assuming it's a bad policy, and I'm not in a position to comment on that), but even if successful shouldn't mean that she gets off the hook


Fighting it doesn't make sense. You can't be active in ROTC and go to college at the same time you are having a baby.
 
2012-10-25 08:48:34 AM  
Let the woman hate shine out in this thread, farkers.
Let the authoritarian followers howl at the moon.
 
2012-10-25 08:48:37 AM  
If its a legitimate enlistment the body has ways of shutting this down.

Sorry honey, too bad..
 
2012-10-25 08:48:42 AM  
Too bad she wasn't raped, she could have avoided the pregnancy in the first place.
 
2012-10-25 08:49:07 AM  
Let us dump you down
where you belong,..
2.bp.blogspot.com
Just a horny slut...
working at the Sunglass Hut.
 
2012-10-25 08:50:13 AM  

Lunaville: Sgt Otter: We had a few guys get the boot after a divorce, and the ex-wife didn't want custody

Wow, that possibility never occurred to me. I wonder how many of these women were secretly still in love with their husbands and crazy determined to remove them from a potentially deadly situation?


That's actually an awesome plan.
 
2012-10-25 08:51:43 AM  

Englebert Slaptyback: True, but it certainly does shout MOTIVE loudly and clearly, and her father would be in a good position to advise her on the best way to get the scholarship and not end up (potentially) in harm's way.


Because all single mothers want to be saddled with crushing debt, right?
/Moran derpity.
 
2012-10-25 08:51:58 AM  

Oblio13: Spent 21 years in the Marines. A huge percentage of our woman Marines used to get pregnant either right before or during deployments. So a unit trains together like it should, then rotates overseas with brand new replacements to fill the holes. Now that I'm out I can say it: very, very few women pull their weight in the military.



Came to say this.

/Only 8 years for me though
//Semper Fi brah
 
2012-10-25 08:52:17 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: ThatGuyFromTheInternet: It's not like the Air Force tells people these things, or she could've ever done anything to prevent pregnancy.

Not too mention she's supposed to be very Catholic. Guess that didn't turn out so well.


What do you mean? Her having a kid out of wedlock proves how catholic she is.

/Was raised catholic
//went to a catholic school, and yes, the rumors are true
///no longer practicing anything
 
2012-10-25 08:52:35 AM  

retarded: Too bad she wasn't raped, she could have avoided the pregnancy in the first place.


The paid posters are logging in a few minutes early today.
 
2012-10-25 08:53:41 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: omnimancer28: No, he is saying that single fathers are treated the exact same as single mothers. If a father has sole custody of a child through divorce or his spouse's death, he would get the boot just as quickly. (several posters have already mentioned examples of this)

Not really. What it means is that the armed services are just as stupid as ever.
Like Lockheed Martin, they never forget whose money they're wasting.

But impoverishing a single mom by putting her into debt and tossing a motivated commissioned officer out of the only career she ever wanted seems like the right thing to do, right?
Farking idiots.


An officer's commission is a privilege, not a participation trophy she gets just for wanting it really but falling short of the standards. At least her degree. Can help her stave off Walmart slavery with the other single moms.
 
2012-10-25 08:54:01 AM  

taurusowner: To be fair, last time we had one male soldier use the "I'm gonna kill myself" excuse and was pulled off the deployment at the last minute.


Struggle to have as much compassion as possible toward anyone who states he is going to kill himself. Ya'll are rocking an absolutely horrifying suicide rate. And don't be embarrassed to be one of those guys who gets pulled off deployment at the last minute if you begin to despair. You also deserve the compassion and care you might require to remain physically and mentally healthy.
 
2012-10-25 08:54:10 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder


Why the fark would she want to be on the hook for more than $93K (plus interest, without a doubt)?


The point (subtle, I know) was that it looks like she planned to get the education but not to be on the hook for the money.
 
2012-10-25 08:55:03 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: She's an officer and a nurse, you idiots.
Let her serve or STFU.

/Nothing to see here.


She is a nurse? A trained medical professional who does not understand how to avoid pregnancy?

Air Force is better off without her.
 
2012-10-25 08:55:06 AM  

Billified: Fark It: Bender The Offender: Oblio13: Spent 21 years in the Marines. A huge percentage of our woman Marines used to get pregnant either right before or during deployments. So a unit trains together like it should, then rotates overseas with brand new replacements to fill the holes. Now that I'm out I can say it: very, very few women pull their weight in the military.

My mom spent 24 years in the military, retired as a sgt. maj. She deployed around the world. She was an outstanding soldier and she joined as a single mother. I deplored to saudi and kosovo with female soldiers and pilots. Not one of them had their tours shortened for pregnancy. We did lose a few men to "stress" though. Just because youre a misogynistic douche doesn't mean reality reflects your "he man woman hater's club" mentality.

As far as the article goes, this woman is dishonest. She attempted to defraud the american people and manipulate the air force, now that she is being revealed for the morally bankrupt person she is, she is attempting to manipulate public opinion by turning a "you dishonestly violated a contract" situation into a "ZOMG the government wants to force me to have ABORTIONS". She has no honor, I hope she does jail time.

"My personal anecdote is clearly more relevant then your personal anecdote!"

In my experience it wasn't that women could not handle the military, it was that men could not deal with the women in the military. Things like a guy standing near the front of a 45 minute long chow line sees a random woman walking past and offers to let her jump in line ahead of him. He'd almost never make that offer to a guy, but who could blame her for taking the offer, but the guy way in the back is mad at her for getting a shortcut. Something heavy needs to be moved? Some guy will offer to do it and every other guy around accuses her of not pulling her weight...but trust me, some guy offers to pick up a 100lb safety relief valve for me, I'm letting him. I did a rough job in a rou ...


While i agree with you on the base points, in my experience it was more because of things like the cute A1C that just came out of tech school got to ride around in the front seat of the expeditor's truck while he sent SrA's and SSgt's out to work because he was trying to score "get in her pants" points. Also things like being told by my flight chief that I couldnt get my AFCM until i tacked on SSgt (despite having a line number), i had put out 4 aircraft fires (receiving chemical burns on my hands on the last one), won Airman of the Quarter for squadron and Operations Group, won Airman Maintenance Professional of the Quarter for squadron and Operations Group, was the DCC on the squadron commander's aircraft, made SSgt the first time testing, and was chosen to serve as the base enlisted liaison for the ROTC troops during their summer camp at our base. And guess who was on stage with me getting her AFCM? Yep a cute SrA with no line number who worked in plans and scheduling, who once said she didnt like being in the Air Force because "we bomb people".

/not bitter ;)
 
2012-10-25 08:57:23 AM  

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: know when to pull out of tight spots or eject


Biologically speaking, isn't that the man's job?
 
2012-10-25 08:57:45 AM  

Englebert Slaptyback: indylaw

Arguments are usually accompanied by evidence beyond "Wow, isn't this convenient!"


True, but it certainly does shout MOTIVE loudly and clearly, and her father would be in a good position to advise her on the best way to get the scholarship and not end up (potentially) in harm's way.

I'm fairly certain that the woman in TFA would not want to go through the required investigation: questions about how long she and her boyfriend were having unprotected sex and what she and her father may or may not have discussed via email could be problematic.

As mentioned upthread, military law is not quite the same as civilian law, so the investigation might not look like what you would expect.


You need more that motive and speculation to prove a crime. I admit that I am not a military lawyer, but I can only imagine that even there, it's for the prosecutors to offer proof that an actual crime was committed.

Let's say that your estranged wife turns up dead. A prosecutor's not going to put you away for murder if all he shows is that you've hated the biatch for the last two years and a remark in closing arguments that "Hey, all I'm saying is it's awfully convenient for him now that she's out of the way!"
 
2012-10-25 08:59:09 AM  

irsquareamads: Billified: Fark It: Bender The Offender: Oblio13: Spent 21 years in the Marines. A huge percentage of our woman Marines used to get pregnant either right before or during deployments. So a unit trains together like it should, then rotates overseas with brand new replacements to fill the holes. Now that I'm out I can say it: very, very few women pull their weight in the military.

My mom spent 24 years in the military, retired as a sgt. maj. She deployed around the world. She was an outstanding soldier and she joined as a single mother. I deplored to saudi and kosovo with female soldiers and pilots. Not one of them had their tours shortened for pregnancy. We did lose a few men to "stress" though. Just because youre a misogynistic douche doesn't mean reality reflects your "he man woman hater's club" mentality.

As far as the article goes, this woman is dishonest. She attempted to defraud the american people and manipulate the air force, now that she is being revealed for the morally bankrupt person she is, she is attempting to manipulate public opinion by turning a "you dishonestly violated a contract" situation into a "ZOMG the government wants to force me to have ABORTIONS". She has no honor, I hope she does jail time.

"My personal anecdote is clearly more relevant then your personal anecdote!"

In my experience it wasn't that women could not handle the military, it was that men could not deal with the women in the military. Things like a guy standing near the front of a 45 minute long chow line sees a random woman walking past and offers to let her jump in line ahead of him. He'd almost never make that offer to a guy, but who could blame her for taking the offer, but the guy way in the back is mad at her for getting a shortcut. Something heavy needs to be moved? Some guy will offer to do it and every other guy around accuses her of not pulling her weight...but trust me, some guy offers to pick up a 100lb safety relief valve for me, I'm letting him. I did a rough j ...


I'd like to agree with you by saying "this" or some such thing, but without a picture in your profile to know if you're hot or not, alas...

/JK
//Orami?
///Nahimtotallyjk
 
2012-10-25 09:03:55 AM  

Summoner101: The military didn't pay for her to go to school so she could have a kid and have no other means other than her to care for it. The military paid for her to go to school so she could fulfill her service commitment to do her job and deploy as required. If she can't hold up her end of the deal, neither should the military.


People are people. Life is hard for organizations that don't understand that. In this case, we all pay the price of 1) the loss of a trained officer, and 2) the cost of her education, even if she is made to "pay it back." Money isn't the only thing being lost here.
She has wanted this career all her life and the motivation that comes with that desire is incalculably valuable to the service and to the nation. If she's smart, she'll realize the truth that not only does the government and the military not love her, no company she ever works for will love her either, no matter what her level of commitment or desire to be a part of the team.
Hopefully she'll jump off the taxpayer teat and make a good life for herself despite the storm of ignorance that inundates her now and she'll be a better person for all of this.

/I know whereof I speak, having grown up around the military in a military family. No matter how you feel about service, you're a machine part, nothing more.
 
2012-10-25 09:06:26 AM  
She just gambled hoping the AF would forgive her student loan debt. If there was no $92K loan hanging over her head, she wouldn't say a word, which I'll bet was the coonts plan all along.


Stupid free-loading biatch.
 
2012-10-25 09:07:19 AM  

indylaw


You need more that motive and speculation to prove a crime. I admit that I am not a military lawyer, but I can only imagine that even there, it's for the prosecutors to offer proof that an actual crime was committed.


Understood. However, the base commander has a certain amount of leeway to handle issues on his own; that can be free-form and not necessarily congruent with traditional courtroom procedure. It could be as simple as an interview with Personnel (HR) present.

Of course she's already been discharged so that's moot, but the fact remains that the events give all the appearances of fraud and the AF continues to investigate (which I think is prudent).
 
2012-10-25 09:08:06 AM  

irsquareamads: While i agree with you on the base points, in my experience it was more because of things like the cute A1C that just came out of tech school got to ride around in the front seat of the expeditor's truck while he sent SrA's and SSgt's out to work because he was trying to score "get in her pants" points. Also things like being told by my flight chief that I couldnt get my AFCM until i tacked on SSgt (despite having a line number), i had put out 4 aircraft fires (receiving chemical burns on my hands on the last one), won Airman of the Quarter for squadron and Operations Group, won Airman Maintenance Professional of the Quarter for squadron and Operations Group, was the DCC on the squadron commander's aircraft, made SSgt the first time testing, and was chosen to serve as the base enlisted liaison for the ROTC troops during their summer camp at our base. And guess who was on stage with me getting her AFCM? Yep a cute SrA with no line number who worked in plans and scheduling, who once said she didnt like being in the Air Force because "we bomb people".


It happens everywhere. We had a female soldier get suddenly pulled off her team about a month in and turned into an admin specialist in the TOC for the rest of our deployment...and happened to be the only junior enlisted soldier who got a Bronze Star as an end of tour award -_-.....for processing paperwork and surfing Facebook on the NIPR computer while the rest of us were running missions.

\I'm sure the fact that she was seen leaving our male Plt Sgt's CHU early in the morning more than once had nothing to do with it.
\\Yeah I seem bitter. But being an MP (a coed MOS that does combat missions) gives one the opportunity to witness a lot of the BS that really happens around females in the military.
\\\On that note, do MRAP doors or .50cal ammo cans get magically lighter if a female soldier is carrying them? Since they do have lower PT standards....
 
2012-10-25 09:10:26 AM  
I'm getting a paternity test warning!

t0.gstatic.com

SHE'S GOT DNA LOCK!

i.ytimg.com

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! 
 
2012-10-25 09:10:27 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: But impoverishing a single mom by putting her into debt and tossing a motivated commissioned officer out of the only career she ever wanted seems like the right thing to do, right?


How are they putting her into debt?

She wasn't a "comissioned officer" nor was she motivated by honesty, or duty or she wouldn't be in this position.

So, basically, you are wrong on every count.
 
2012-10-25 09:10:38 AM  

Englebert Slaptyback: HotIgneous Intruder

Why the fark would she want to be on the hook for more than $93K (plus interest, without a doubt)?


The point (subtle, I know) was that it looks like she planned to get the education but not to be on the hook for the money.


Things are seldom as they appear.
Because she wasn't told that she'd be on the hook multiple times before she signed the contract, didn't understand that while she read the contract, and during her entire tenure as a cadet, right? She knew she would be on the hook if she screwed up, but she didn't expect that the Air Force would do something so idiotic as toss her for fulfilling her biological purpose.

/Authoritarian girl-haters are cretins. Get off my planet.
 
2012-10-25 09:10:42 AM  
Well, to be fair, fighter aircraft don't have baby seats

Then where did Bush sit?
 
2012-10-25 09:11:10 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: She has wanted this career all her life and the motivation that comes with that desire is incalculably valuable to the service and to the nation.


Without pretending to have omniscience into her true motivations and desires, it's safe to say from the visible facts she had acted with neither the intelligence or integrity to achieve those goals. Both are job requirements, the position isn't an entitlement.
 
2012-10-25 09:11:18 AM  

Bender The Offender: Oblio13: Spent 21 years in the Marines. A huge percentage of our woman Marines used to get pregnant either right before or during deployments. So a unit trains together like it should, then rotates overseas with brand new replacements to fill the holes. Now that I'm out I can say it: very, very few women pull their weight in the military.

My mom spent 24 years in the military, retired as a sgt. maj. She deployed around the world. She was an outstanding soldier and she joined as a single mother. I deplored to saudi and kosovo with female soldiers and pilots. Not one of them had their tours shortened for pregnancy. We did lose a few men to "stress" though. Just because youre a misogynistic douche doesn't mean reality reflects your "he man woman hater's club" mentality.


I used protection when I did your mom.
 
2012-10-25 09:11:57 AM  

Englebert Slaptyback: indylaw

You need more that motive and speculation to prove a crime. I admit that I am not a military lawyer, but I can only imagine that even there, it's for the prosecutors to offer proof that an actual crime was committed.


Understood. However, the base commander has a certain amount of leeway to handle issues on his own; that can be free-form and not necessarily congruent with traditional courtroom procedure. It could be as simple as an interview with Personnel (HR) present.

Of course she's already been discharged so that's moot, but the fact remains that the events give all the appearances of fraud and the AF continues to investigate (which I think is prudent).


I have no argument that she should be discharged, or even that what she did was dishonest. I feel that, unless the prosecutors have some evidence we're not privy to (which is always possible), it's at least as likely that she accidentally got pregnant and the fear of having to pay back over $90K caused her to clam up when she had a duty to notify the authorities, rather than the notion that she engaged in an elaborate scheme to trick the Air Force into giving her a huge scholarship while intending since the beginning to find some way to cheat the government out of the money by avoiding her commission at the end (while somehow avoiding punishment). I suppose you and I will just have to disagree on that point.
 
2012-10-25 09:12:01 AM  

liam76: HotIgneous Intruder: But impoverishing a single mom by putting her into debt and tossing a motivated commissioned officer out of the only career she ever wanted seems like the right thing to do, right?

How are they putting her into debt?

She wasn't a "comissioned officer" nor was she motivated by honesty, or duty or she wouldn't be in this position.

So, basically, you are wrong on every count.


Also given her condition she couldn't have completed the training program she was in.
 
2012-10-25 09:12:38 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Summoner101: The military didn't pay for her to go to school so she could have a kid and have no other means other than her to care for it. The military paid for her to go to school so she could fulfill her service commitment to do her job and deploy as required. If she can't hold up her end of the deal, neither should the military.

People are people. Life is hard for organizations that don't understand that. In this case, we all pay the price of 1) the loss of a trained officer, and 2) the cost of her education, even if she is made to "pay it back." Money isn't the only thing being lost here.
She has wanted this career all her life and the motivation that comes with that desire is incalculably valuable to the service and to the nation. If she's smart, she'll realize the truth that not only does the government and the military not love her, no company she ever works for will love her either, no matter what her level of commitment or desire to be a part of the team.
Hopefully she'll jump off the taxpayer teat and make a good life for herself despite the storm of ignorance that inundates her now and she'll be a better person for all of this.

/I know whereof I speak, having grown up around the military in a military family. No matter how you feel about service, you're a machine part, nothing more.


And instead of wasting a dwindling resource such as commission spots, the military might instead use her spot to direct commission a single nurse with no children or a married nurse with a family. The military has less leeway with its manpower demographics than civilian sectors. If this woman is allowed to stay in, that means other nurses have to deploy to pick up her slack. This has nothing to do with whether a woman is or is not denied her dream. It has to do with the military being able to have and maintain a healthy, deployable force.
 
2012-10-25 09:14:53 AM  

Fark It: Or just married the baby-daddy prior to enlisting....


Last I heard, they have rules about that, also.
 
2012-10-25 09:15:38 AM  

omnimancer28: HotIgneous Intruder: SnarfVader: /Sorry, lady. You don't get to play by a different set of rules from everybody else in the military.

Yes, I've seen lots of pregnant males in the Air Force nurse corps.

/You're realize that you're saying that pregnant males should be treated the same as pregnant females.

No, he is saying that single fathers are treated the exact same as single mothers. If a father has sole custody of a child through divorce or his spouse's death, he would get the boot just as quickly. (several posters have already mentioned examples of this)


There is hardly a shortage of single parents in the military. The caveats are:

- you can't enlist or be commissioned as a single parent (why are people still talking about her "enlisting" in this thread when she was an ROTC student)
- if you find yourself in the single-parent boat after you're already in, you better have a Family Care Plan: you must have a local/short term, and a long term provider who will be able to take the kids at a moment's notice if you have short notice orders.
- this applies to military-to-military married couples, also quite common.

Often, in the military, it's easier to stay in than to get in. It seems unfair, but it makes sense from the taxpayer's point of view. You don't want to let people in who have significant health issues, multiple dependents, won't be world-wide deployable. However, there's more leeway once a person is in, as there is already a considerable investment of resources in training, security clearances, etc., and often considerable expertise that would be lost. 

Also... NO way she didn't know this. Or know that she had to report any changes in her medical status. Give me a break.

In my 11th year in the AF.
 
2012-10-25 09:16:06 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: but she didn't expect that the Air Force would do something so idiotic as toss her for fulfilling her biological purpose.

/Authoritarian girl-haters are cretins. Get off my planet.


You have to be trolling...
 
2012-10-25 09:19:47 AM  

indylaw


I have no argument that she should be discharged, or even that what she did was dishonest. I feel that, unless the prosecutors have some evidence we're not privy to (which is always possible), it's at least as likely that she accidentally got pregnant and the fear of having to pay back over $90K caused her to clam up when she had a duty to notify the authorities, rather than the notion that she engaged in an elaborate scheme to trick the Air Force into giving her a huge scholarship while intending since the beginning to find some way to cheat the government out of the money by avoiding her commission at the end (while somehow avoiding punishment). I suppose you and I will just have to disagree on that point.


And that's fine, even for Fark. :-)

Keep in mind too that we haven't heard the AF side. Nor are we likely to do so as the investigation is ongoing, but both scenarios (yours, mine) are plausible.
 
2012-10-25 09:20:10 AM  

jeffowl: So, she's a good Catholic when it comes to dealing with pregnancy, but not when it came to getting pregnant in the first place.


This never made sense to me--if you are willing to commit the sin of fornication, why not commit the sin of birth control at the same time so as to not have to worry about the possibility of the sin of abortion later?
 
2012-10-25 09:20:56 AM  

Izunbacol: - if you find yourself in the single-parent boat after you're already in, you better have a Family Care Plan: you must have a local/short term, and a long term provider who will be able to take the kids at a moment's notice if you have short notice orders.


Does this mean that a male, who loses his wife to a car wreck or cancer, would have to have a log term provider? Would he not be dismissed/allowed to depart from the military in order to care for his family?
 
2012-10-25 09:21:19 AM  
I'm not sure that I see the problem. Parents serve in the military every day. Heck, there are even maternity uniforms (page 66 of document)She takes some medical leave to have the baby and gets back to work when it's over. Is this a child care issue or something?
 
2012-10-25 09:21:31 AM  

taurusowner: irsquareamads: While i agree with you on the base points, in my experience it was more because of things like the cute A1C that just came out of tech school got to ride around in the front seat of the expeditor's truck while he sent SrA's and SSgt's out to work because he was trying to score "get in her pants" points. Also things like being told by my flight chief that I couldnt get my AFCM until i tacked on SSgt (despite having a line number), i had put out 4 aircraft fires (receiving chemical burns on my hands on the last one), won Airman of the Quarter for squadron and Operations Group, won Airman Maintenance Professional of the Quarter for squadron and Operations Group, was the DCC on the squadron commander's aircraft, made SSgt the first time testing, and was chosen to serve as the base enlisted liaison for the ROTC troops during their summer camp at our base. And guess who was on stage with me getting her AFCM? Yep a cute SrA with no line number who worked in plans and scheduling, who once said she didnt like being in the Air Force because "we bomb people".

It happens everywhere. We had a female soldier get suddenly pulled off her team about a month in and turned into an admin specialist in the TOC for the rest of our deployment...and happened to be the only junior enlisted soldier who got a Bronze Star as an end of tour award -_-.....for processing paperwork and surfing Facebook on the NIPR computer while the rest of us were running missions.

\I'm sure the fact that she was seen leaving our male Plt Sgt's CHU early in the morning more than once had nothing to do with it.
\\Yeah I seem bitter. But being an MP (a coed MOS that does combat missions) gives one the opportunity to witness a lot of the BS that really happens around females in the military.
\\\On that note, do MRAP doors or .50cal ammo cans get magically lighter if a female soldier is carrying them? Since they do have lower PT standards....


i know that feel bro, another fine example would be that out of the 100's of incentive flights i've seen i'd say a good 80% of the military ones (we did local reporters and politicians as well) were young female airmen from either medical squadrons or communications squadrons. I'm not saying that they weren't deserved, I *am* saying that there's just as many guys out there who deserved them, and most of them were the mechanics who worked them.

Also, some of our aircraft parts are upwards of 100-150 pounds and you'd have to hold them above your head while somebody fumbled with the clamp and bolts that held them up. Actually, lol, you generally held them up with one hand/shoulder and did the bolts and clamps yourself cuz we were always short on manpower. Usually due to our AFSC being chose as SP augmentees. We had lower PT requirements for the girls as well.
 
2012-10-25 09:22:13 AM  

Fark It: You have to be trolling...


M: Look, I don't want to argue about that.
A: Well, you didn't pay.
M: Aha. If I didn't pay, why are you arguing? I Got you!
A: No you haven't.
M: Yes I have. If you're arguing, I must have paid.
A: Not necessarily. I could be arguing in my spare time Republican.
 
2012-10-25 09:22:58 AM  
Prediction: She'll play the victim until she gets a commission, then make a career of whining and threatening to sue when she isn't promoted as quickly as she'd like, doesn't get the duty stations she wants, or gets an unaccompanied tour. Other officers will have to pick up the slack for her.
 
2012-10-25 09:23:50 AM  

Oblio13: very, very few women pull their weight


In the western world the percentage that pull their weight and aren't bull lesbians is close to 0.

Never hire a woman of childbearing age, they will ALWAYS get pregnant and expect you to pay for it. If you have to hire a woman find one over 45 and for bonus points is divorced or a widow and has no dependent children. Why a woman without a husband? Because then you know she needs the money and won't complain as much.
 
2012-10-25 09:25:14 AM  
I'm sure a civilian employer in a choose life state would be happy to hire her on and pay her 60% of what a man makes. And shun her for being the parent of a love child. (So afraid her friends will see the guilt in her)
 
2012-10-25 09:25:15 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Englebert Slaptyback: HotIgneous Intruder

Why the fark would she want to be on the hook for more than $93K (plus interest, without a doubt)?


The point (subtle, I know) was that it looks like she planned to get the education but not to be on the hook for the money.

Things are seldom as they appear.
Because she wasn't told that she'd be on the hook multiple times before she signed the contract, didn't understand that while she read the contract, and during her entire tenure as a cadet, right? She knew she would be on the hook if she screwed up, but she didn't expect that the Air Force would do something so idiotic as toss her for fulfilling her biological purpose.

/Authoritarian girl-haters are cretins. Get off my planet.


Oh, that's bullshiat. I was an Air Force ROTC cadet in college and they made sure to reiterate many, many times that if you fark up or have something serious happen, you better let your instructors or the NCOs at the detachment know ASAP. That includes pregnancy. You'd also have semester counselings with your instructor to ensure that you understood your obligation and what was expected of you.

If you can't live up to the very basic core values that the Air Force has established, you don't deserve to be an officer. "Integrity First" is not a farking suggestion.
 
2012-10-25 09:27:03 AM  

RembrandtQEinstein: Oblio13: very, very few women pull their weight

In the western world the percentage that pull their weight and aren't bull lesbians is close to 0.


Really it's just another symptom of our growing obesity problem. In an ideal world, women would have less weight to pull. Well, except for the added weight of their ample bosoms.
 
2012-10-25 09:27:32 AM  

RembrandtQEinstein:
Never hire a woman of childbearing age, they will ALWAYS get pregnant and expect you to pay for it. If you have to hire a woman find one over 45 and for bonus points is divorced or a widow and has no dependent children. Why a woman without a husband? Because then you know she needs the money and won't complain as much.


Banks and insurance agencies. 100% twenty somethings that get an engagement ring, then a vacation for a honeymoon, then maternity leave, then quit.
 
2012-10-25 09:27:55 AM  

Lunaville: Izunbacol: - if you find yourself in the single-parent boat after you're already in, you better have a Family Care Plan: you must have a local/short term, and a long term provider who will be able to take the kids at a moment's notice if you have short notice orders.

Does this mean that a male, who loses his wife to a car wreck or cancer, would have to have a log term provider? Would he not be dismissed/allowed to depart from the military in order to care for his family?


Int he case fo a car wreck he would be given time to either set up some sort of care or leave the military. Int he event of his wife getting cancer he would be told he needs to set something up.

however none of those really matter in this case.

She signed up for a training program, one she knew she couldn;t complete on schedule. These are coveted spots and there is absolutly no reason the Air Force should make special accomidation to her, especially after she was dishoenst about her condition.
 
2012-10-25 09:28:31 AM  

liam76: fark her.


Some one did. But yeah, it was in her contract, the UCMJ supports the Air Forces position. She lied and now wants to pull the female victim card. Fark her with a cactus soaked in gasoline, then light it.
 
2012-10-25 09:33:11 AM  
Well, to be fair to the poor little butterbar, it IS the Air Force.

They work like 20 hours a week including lunch and "PT" time. I think she'd have been fine, especially if she was a desk pilot.

superdude72: I wish the USA would just establish a decent welfare state--with maternity/paternity leave, subsidized child care, affordable university education, etc.--so that working class people wouldn't join the military thinking it's their only route to the public services that people in most industrialized countries take for granted.

The military should be a *last resort* employment option for single men who don't fit in anywhere else. It's not a damn social services agency or Junior Year Abroad program.


Also, you are a toll-troll.
//wanna get that boy's hole
 
2012-10-25 09:33:37 AM  

superdude72: The military should be a *last resort* employment option for single men who don't fit in anywhere else.


Actually, it should be a public service option--one of several, I would hope--for young people who are physically fit and brave enough to do the job well, and unselfish enough to pay the price. If you want a reliable military, it can't be a garbage can from people you are trying to get rid of.
 
2012-10-25 09:34:53 AM  

vudukungfu: RembrandtQEinstein:
Never hire a woman of childbearing age, they will ALWAYS get pregnant and expect you to pay for it. If you have to hire a woman find one over 45 and for bonus points is divorced or a widow and has no dependent children. Why a woman without a husband? Because then you know she needs the money and won't complain as much.

Banks and insurance agencies. 100% twenty somethings that get an engagement ring, then a vacation for a honeymoon, then maternity leave, then quit.


Just another reason our farking economy is farked: Stupid, greedy, short-sighted thinking.
The USSA ranks lowest in the developed world for maternity leave.
 
2012-10-25 09:35:17 AM  
This woman is an idiot. First she could just have her parents adopt the kid and avoid this entire mess (after all they're willing to be supportive). Then work out a verbal agreement that she pays them, gets the kid, etc. On paper though have her parents as the baby's adoptive parents.

Secondly, she could in theory owe the Air Force for her tuition and stipend. Normally for things like getting knocked up and becoming a single parent the military just shows you the door, because they don't want the negative PR of suing single parents for large amounts of money. However consider she lied to them and has decided to go public/sue them, now they might as well go after her for their money. They have nothing to lose in terms of PR.

/our military is better off without her as an officer
 
2012-10-25 09:35:29 AM  

daveUSMC: Well, to be fair to the poor little butterbar, it IS the Air Force.

They work like 20 hours a week including lunch and "PT" time. I think she'd have been fine, especially if she was a desk pilot.

superdude72: I wish the USA would just establish a decent welfare state--with maternity/paternity leave, subsidized child care, affordable university education, etc.--so that working class people wouldn't join the military thinking it's their only route to the public services that people in most industrialized countries take for granted.

The military should be a *last resort* employment option for single men who don't fit in anywhere else. It's not a damn social services agency or Junior Year Abroad program.

Also, you are a toll-troll.
//wanna get that boy's hole


To be fair, a butterbar USAF nurse has a fairly decent chance of doing shift work in an inpatient unit.
 
2012-10-25 09:35:38 AM  

Bender The Offender: Seacop: Bender The Offender: david_gaithersburg: Bender The Offender: Oblio13: Spent 21 years in the Marines. A huge percentage of our woman Marines used to get pregnant either right before or during deployments. So a unit trains together like it should, then rotates overseas with brand new replacements to fill the holes. Now that I'm out I can say it: very, very few women pull their weight in the military.

My mom spent 24 years in the military, retired as a sgt. maj. She deployed around the world. She was an outstanding soldier and she joined as a single mother. I deplored to saudi and kosovo with female soldiers and pilots. Not one of them had their tours shortened for pregnancy. We did lose a few men to "stress" though. Just because youre a misogynistic douche doesn't mean reality reflects your "he man woman hater's club" mentality.

As far as the article goes, this woman is dishonest. She attempted to defraud the american people and manipulate the air force, now that she is being revealed for the morally bankrupt person she is, she is attempting to manipulate public opinion by turning a "you dishonestly violated a contract" situation into a "ZOMG the government wants to force me to have ABORTIONS". She has no honor, I hope she does jail time.

.
You had me until you declared that no women had their tours shortened. But to be fair Kosovo was before Generation Baby Daddy/Generation Pill Popper, so perhaps you are telling the truth.

Perhaps I should have specified "in my unit". I know there were incidents were some females were sent home for pregnancies, just not from my units.

So what you're saying is, when it came to your unit, there was no chance a woman got pregnant?
We were a medivac unit, mostly 91 charlies, doctors, and nurses. I'm pretty sure the possibility existed. The reality is, not one person was sent home for pregnancy during our deployment. What is your point exactly? What question are you begging?


HE'S SAYING YOUR DICK DON'T WORK! YOUR SEMEN AIN'T SWIMMIN'!
 
2012-10-25 09:36:25 AM  
Women in the Air Force:

dubsism.files.wordpress.com
Approved!

i2.cdn.turner.com
Disapproved!
 
2012-10-25 09:38:42 AM  
I just wanna tell you all: good luck. We're all counting on you.

/Don't mean to be a harsh, but thanks all. Just like tfa and this thread, the service isn't for everybody.
 
2012-10-25 09:38:57 AM  
She's a good Catholic girl.
Refused to use birth control and refused to have an abortion.
The church must be so proud of her.
Then there's that sex out of wedlock thing.
But she's a good Catholic girl.
 
2012-10-25 09:39:18 AM  
I like the part where they an abortion is off the table because of deeply held catholic faith. Premarital sex however.......
 
2012-10-25 09:40:18 AM  
There's so much fail - to borrow the kids' term - in this article.

"Abortion was never an option, she said, because of her Catholic faith and her personal beliefs."

You know what else is wrong according to Catholicism? Pre-marital sex, and having children outside of marriage. Also, lying to the officers who are mentoring you as you enter the Air Force goes against some pretty basic Catholic values. She said, "OK, I don't think I have to tell anybody [I'm pregnant]. I'm scared now." Because you're afraid of the consequences, it's okay to lie? Wow...Someone was babied a bit too much growing up.

"Thirteen weeks into her pregnancy, she was sworn in by her father as a second lieutenant and started making plans to go to Virginia to begin her military service."

So, she didn't just lie, she lied for weeks and weeks just hoping that they'd let her skate by because...well why not? She's a cute little white girl why should she have to take responsibility for breaking her agreement? Responsibility is leik super scary, so it's best to just pretend that it doesn't exist.

"It further stated that her file contained eight forms in which she was briefed on the medical change reporting requirement. Edmonds said no one ever brought the issue up during her subsequent counseling sessions while she was enrolled at Marquette."

Oh, right they should have known she was a liar and kept reminding her that she agreed not to get pregnant so that maybe she would have been too scared to get pregnant and lie. Obviously it's everyone's fault except her own.

Man she would have made a great officer.

Okay, I'm gonna stop there because I shouldn't care this much about something that affects me not at all. Also, because I realize how bitter and terrible I am.
 
2012-10-25 09:41:09 AM  

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: It's not like the Air Force tells people these things, or she could've ever done anything to prevent pregnancy.


They tell you these things. Everyone in and around the military knows this.
 
2012-10-25 09:43:49 AM  

Kredal: So, having an abortion is against her religious beliefs? Fine. What about having a bastard child? No qualms about that? What about lying to your employer about your medical condition (against the contract)? That's OK for you?


THIS
 
2012-10-25 09:43:58 AM  

david_gaithersburg: You had me until you declared that no women had their tours shortened. But to be fair Kosovo was before Generation Baby Daddy/Generation Pill Popper, so perhaps you are telling the truth.


What exactly does "Generation Pill Popper" refer to? Women who "pop" birth control pills are not the problem here. (Though IUDs make more sense for military deployment.) If you are referring to popping other sorts of pills, well, the Baby Boomers did a lot of that and so has every generation since, so I don't see how you can single out people coming of age after Kosovo.
 
2012-10-25 09:44:56 AM  
So...war against women anyone?
 
2012-10-25 09:45:14 AM  

Chief_ Danz153A: Wow... I wasn't aware of this policy. Strikes me as a bit antiquated. Deployments are difficult for anyone with any family. Like others mentioned above, in the Army you are required to have this Family Care Plan, which can be complete BS, but is an officiating document that pretty much says "this person can take care of your kid(s). I wasn't aware that the Air Force was a Judeo-Christian organization requiring marriage.

Sounds like I have some reading to do.

But yeah if can't take care of your child in your absence, well you aren't really a functional member of the Armed Forces and things expulsion (like Tat'dGreaser mentioned) can/will get put into play.


There are plenty of single mothers (and fathers) in the AF (otherwise divorce or death of a spouse would be problematic too). What you can't do is enlist as a single parent (of either sex) or while pregnant.

There are a lot of these policies that only apply pre-enlistment, and some of them make sense ... some are strange.

An interesting one: you can't enlist if you're on an antidepressant, and if you are taking one you have to stop for a year prior to enlisting. Though if you're already active duty, treatable depression in a-ok.
 
2012-10-25 09:45:49 AM  
I am calling shenanigans on her. If she had been active duty at the time she got pregnant, they would have shrugged and said congrats. That's what happened to me.

Prior to entering active duty, it is very plainly stated and briefed every time she meets her recruiter (or whoever) that she needs to disclose any changes in her status. I sincerely doubt anyone suggested abortion to her, giving that the majority of military members are staunch conservatives. The truth is, she lied about her status and she doesn't get special privileges on the way in. Sorry cupcake, but if you had disclosed your status early, you would have been discharged from the DEP but still eligible for re-entry if you chose to get married. You would require a dependency waiver, but that shouldn't be an obstacle. I really wish I could smack her and her parents for the "standards don't apply to me!" bullshiat.
 
2012-10-25 09:45:57 AM  

ha-ha-guy: This woman is an idiot. First she could just have her parents adopt the kid and avoid this entire mess (after all they're willing to be supportive). Then work out a verbal agreement that she pays them, gets the kid, etc. On paper though have her parents as the baby's adoptive parents.

Secondly, she could in theory owe the Air Force for her tuition and stipend. Normally for things like getting knocked up and becoming a single parent the military just shows you the door, because they don't want the negative PR of suing single parents for large amounts of money. However consider she lied to them and has decided to go public/sue them, now they might as well go after her for their money. They have nothing to lose in terms of PR.

/our military is better off without her as an officer


Derp, upon rereading the article I note that she is actually paying off her 92k debt to the USAF. Suddenly this all makes sense. The Air Force decided they didn't like lying little butterbars and nailed for the money. She's not doing this over discrimination or a desire to serve the country, she's doing this to avoid the debt. According to the article she's paying 100 dollars a month, which means it takes 76.7 years to pay off just the principle. With interest she'll never get out from under this debt at that rate. It must be farking up her credit report or something so she went out and got a lawyer.

Also the military has had all kinds of rules about making orphans, family serving together (the Sullivan Brothers rule), etc. I doubt any court is going to challenge the military based on "We don't want to make orphans", let alone the part where she lies under oath.
 
2012-10-25 09:46:20 AM  

ha-ha-guy: /our military is better off without her as an officer


Because pregnant women, despite their educations, are dirty and whorish and never make anything of themselves in the real world, right? Especially trained nurses with officers' commissions -- they are the biggest dirtiest sluttiest lyingest worthless whores of all, right?

The farking underlying misogyny in here is simply amazing.
 
2012-10-25 09:47:20 AM  

RembrandtQEinstein: Never hire a woman of childbearing age, they will ALWAYS get pregnant and expect you to pay for it. If you have to hire a woman find one over 45 and for bonus points is divorced or a widow and has no dependent children. Why a woman without a husband? Because then you know she needs the money and won't complain as much.


Actually every business should hire ONLY women because you only have to pay them 70 cents on the male dollar. Really, you should be encouraging businesses to never hire the more expensive men.
 
2012-10-25 09:47:54 AM  

daveUSMC: Well, to be fair to the poor little butterbar, it IS the Air Force.

They work like 20 hours a week including lunch and "PT" time. I think she'd have been fine, especially if she was a desk pilot.

superdude72: I wish the USA would just establish a decent welfare state--with maternity/paternity leave, subsidized child care, affordable university education, etc.--so that working class people wouldn't join the military thinking it's their only route to the public services that people in most industrialized countries take for granted.

The military should be a *last resort* employment option for single men who don't fit in anywhere else. It's not a damn social services agency or Junior Year Abroad program.

Also, you are a toll-troll.
//wanna get that boy's hole


lol indeed! See this is where she can get even, because the Air Force does tell you the work week is 20 hours and you get lunch and PT! And then they stick you out on the flight line for 144 hours out of 12 days and 16 hour shifts catching aircraft on TDYs. And the lunches? yep, you better stay on the back of the truck because by the time you scarf down your box nasty it took 20 mins to get at the quick turn, your POS is squawking whatever god awful code that's gonna make swing shift shiat their pants and you've got to throw out your half eaten sandwich and go catch it, because if you dont throw it out, one of the other fellow crew chiefs is going to put something in it and that could be anything from brake grease to his weener. Oh and dont forget the call you get from the squadron recalling you because some idiot lost a tool out of his tool box and they cant find it and need to run the engines for maintenance check. I will say however, since i was AF, what is PT? Is that what the MSgt's do while holding their coffee cup?

She just has to prove that the AF lies too and poof she's in.
 
2012-10-25 09:49:25 AM  

craig328: So...war against women liars anyone?


Entitlement so thick you can cut it with a knife.....
 
2012-10-25 09:50:22 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: You're realize that you're saying that pregnant males should be treated the same as pregnant females.


Any man who becomes pregnant and does not inform the service of the change in his medical condition is committing the exact same violation, yes.
 
2012-10-25 09:51:03 AM  

ha-ha-guy: Also the military has had all kinds of rules about making orphans, family serving together (the Sullivan Brothers rule), etc. I doubt any court is going to challenge the military based on "We don't want to make orphans", let alone the part where she lies under oath.


Baby Foetus has a baby daddy, no doubt.
The article says nothing about him.
The article also clearly tells how Our Little Slut's mom would take care of the Baby Foetus in the event of a deployment or worse. Problem solved. Wah-la.
Reading comprehension, how werk it.
 
2012-10-25 09:51:05 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Englebert Slaptyback: HotIgneous Intruder

Why the fark would she want to be on the hook for more than $93K (plus interest, without a doubt)?


The point (subtle, I know) was that it looks like she planned to get the education but not to be on the hook for the money.

Things are seldom as they appear.
Because she wasn't told that she'd be on the hook multiple times before she signed the contract, didn't understand that while she read the contract, and during her entire tenure as a cadet, right? She knew she would be on the hook if she screwed up, but she didn't expect that the Air Force would do something so idiotic as toss her for fulfilling her biological purpose.

/Authoritarian girl-haters are cretins. Get off my planet.


Hey, jackass, we aren't hating on her for being a woman and having a kid. We are discussing how this woman failed the terms of her contract and is being released because of it. Read the freakin' contract. If she had told them THE EXACT MOMENT she had found out instead of waiting months AFTER she had been comissioned, they probably would havebeen lenient and accomodating. But she didn't. She screwed up, and now she pays the price.
 
2012-10-25 09:51:51 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Just another reason our farking economy is farked: Stupid, greedy, short-sighted thinking.
The USSA ranks lowest in the developed world for maternity leave


What is short sighted is keeping on a selfish coont who knows she can't complete the training when there are many more qualified applicants who woudl want her spot.
 
2012-10-25 09:52:53 AM  

RembrandtQEinstein: Oblio13: very, very few women pull their weight

In the western world the percentage that pull their weight and aren't bull lesbians is close to 0.

Never hire a woman of childbearing age, they will ALWAYS get pregnant and expect you to pay for it. If you have to hire a woman find one over 45 and for bonus points is divorced or a widow and has no dependent children. Why a woman without a husband? Because then you know she needs the money and won't complain as much.


So why am I having such a hard time finding a job?
Oh, because I'm not young and pretty anymore.
 
2012-10-25 09:53:13 AM  

pciszek: Women who "pop" birth control pills are not the problem here.


I agree with this statement. Sometimes very young women don't know where to go to get such medical services. My grandmother was the school nurse at a military school a very long time ago. There a young lady only had to state that her periods were irregular and my grandmother would arrange a medical appointment and walk them through the process of getting put on birth control. If a young lady wanted, Granny would go to the appointment with the young lady and hold the young ladys' hand during her first gynecological exam. Nurses are like that. I suspect the military and military schools still have lots of nurses that would act just as my grandmother did if a young female cadet decided she was ready for "regular periods".
 
2012-10-25 09:53:34 AM  

fickenchucker: Seriously--in this day and age if you get knocked up it's either because you're retarded or did it on purpose.


Or you're from Texas.
 
2012-10-25 09:53:52 AM  

Lunaville: I'm female. I'm a Mom. I consider myself to be fairly feminist. And I am absolutely okay with the decision to dismiss this young lady from the military. A child does not raise itself. Any single parent, whether it is a single Mom or a Dad who is a widower, for instance; should be released from military duty so that child can have a parent.


I know with service academies it wasn't gender based - you generally weren't allowed to be married and attend, and if you got a girl pregnant while there they'd boot you just as quickly as if you were the one who became pregnant. Not sure how it goes for ROTC or enlistments, but I'd imagine it's very very similar.
 
2012-10-25 09:54:04 AM  
www.af.milprittynachrel.files.wordpress.comimage.shutterstock.com
 
2012-10-25 09:54:52 AM  

Fark It: Bender The Offender: Oblio13: Spent 21 years in the Marines. A huge percentage of our woman Marines used to get pregnant either right before or during deployments. So a unit trains together like it should, then rotates overseas with brand new replacements to fill the holes. Now that I'm out I can say it: very, very few women pull their weight in the military.

My mom spent 24 years in the military, retired as a sgt. maj. She deployed around the world. She was an outstanding soldier and she joined as a single mother. I deplored to saudi and kosovo with female soldiers and pilots. Not one of them had their tours shortened for pregnancy. We did lose a few men to "stress" though. Just because youre a misogynistic douche doesn't mean reality reflects your "he man woman hater's club" mentality.

As far as the article goes, this woman is dishonest. She attempted to defraud the american people and manipulate the air force, now that she is being revealed for the morally bankrupt person she is, she is attempting to manipulate public opinion by turning a "you dishonestly violated a contract" situation into a "ZOMG the government wants to force me to have ABORTIONS". She has no honor, I hope she does jail time.

"My personal anecdote is clearly more relevant then your personal anecdote!"


This!

I'm not taking anything away from your mother, she bucked up and did her duty and as a former soldier I salute her for it. But for every disciplined badass female there are at least 100 uniformed princesses. You know the type, they love to prance around in their uniform and tell everyone they meet that they're a soldier. Until it comes time to do their duty and BE a soldier (or anything else in the military that they don't like) then they priss up, turn biatch, cry, complain, become insta-les, get knocked up, and play victim.
 
2012-10-25 09:56:10 AM  

whosits_112: Hey, jackass, we aren't hating on her for being a woman and having a kid. We are discussing how this woman failed the terms of her contract and is being released because of it. Read the freakin' contract. If she had told them THE EXACT MOMENT she had found out instead of waiting months AFTER she had been comissioned, they probably would havebeen lenient and accomodating. But she didn't. She screwed up, and now she pays the price.


Ooooh, ah. The good old imperial authoritarian beat down!
She found out two weeks before she got her commission.
So the fark what?
She's an Air Force nurse.
Let her serve, a-holes.
The biggest danger she'll ever face in her career will be dodging golf balls shot by the doctors and jet jocks after Mongolian barbecue at the Officer's Club or whatever politically correct thing they're calling them nowadays.
 
2012-10-25 09:57:32 AM  

Gleeman: fickenchucker: Seriously--in this day and age if you get knocked up it's either because you're retarded or did it on purpose.

Or you're from Texas.


Or Oklahoma.
 
2012-10-25 09:57:48 AM  
From TFA she's the one who brought up abortion. Not the AF officer. She says "If i had an abortion would I be kicked out" and he thinks for a moment and responds affirmatively. Well duh. Abortion means she's no longer pregnant so it's not an issue at all.

Given the "outs" that have been listed by other people in the thread, I'm calling BS on her part and joining the she did this to defraud the AF.
 
2012-10-25 09:58:26 AM  

iivel: An interesting one: you can't enlist if you're on an antidepressant, and if you are taking one you have to stop for a year prior to enlisting. Though if you're already active duty, treatable depression in a-ok.


All branches of the service have medical fitness requirements. They don't want to enlist someone who is already ill. Sounds like they are treating mental illness the same as physical ones. Do they let diabetics enlist? (Honest question, I don't know, but I doubt it.) So, they are willing to retain some people who develop medical conditions after they are trained and experienced, that also makes sense--to a point.
 
2012-10-25 09:59:31 AM  

Spartacus Outlaw: So why am I having such a hard time finding a job?
Oh, because I'm not young and pretty anymore.


That's just part of the daisy chain of stupid we've tied ourselves up with.
 
2012-10-25 09:59:43 AM  

iivel: There are plenty of single mothers (and fathers) in the AF (otherwise divorce or death of a spouse would be problematic too)


Again, I see this sort of statement. Please, please tell me these people are allowed to stay in as opposed to being refused the right to depart ways with the military in such situations.
 
2012-10-25 10:00:55 AM  

Lunaville: iivel: There are plenty of single mothers (and fathers) in the AF (otherwise divorce or death of a spouse would be problematic too)

Again, I see this sort of statement. Please, please tell me these people are allowed to stay in as opposed to being refused the right to depart ways with the military in such situations.


Of course there are... People who think there aren't are those who have no military experience.
 
2012-10-25 10:03:03 AM  
Seacop: Bender The Offender: david_gaithersburg: Bender The Offender: Oblio13: Spent 21 years in the Marines. A huge percentage of our woman Marines used to get pregnant either right before or during deployments. So a unit trains together like it should, then rotates overseas with brand new replacements to fill the holes. Now that I'm out I can say it: very, very few women pull their weight in the military.

My mom spent 24 years in the military, retired as a sgt. maj. She deployed around the world. She was an outstanding soldier and she joined as a single mother. I deplored to saudi and kosovo with female soldiers and pilots. Not one of them had their tours shortened for pregnancy. We did lose a few men to "stress" though. Just because youre a misogynistic douche doesn't mean reality reflects your "he man woman hater's club" mentality.

As far as the article goes, this woman is dishonest. She attempted to defraud the american people and manipulate the air force, now that she is being revealed for the morally bankrupt person she is, she is attempting to manipulate public opinion by turning a "you dishonestly violated a contract" situation into a "ZOMG the government wants to force me to have ABORTIONS". She has no honor, I hope she does jail time.

.
You had me until you declared that no women had their tours shortened. But to be fair Kosovo was before Generation Baby Daddy/Generation Pill Popper, so perhaps you are telling the truth.

Perhaps I should have specified "in my unit". I know there were incidents were some females were sent home for pregnancies, just not from my units.

So what you're saying is, when it came to your unit, there was no chance a woman got pregnant?


Perhaps his unit has been to horrible, horrible places and has been losing it's cohesion. Driving through dirty back alleys, god knows what terrible things his unit experienced.
 
2012-10-25 10:03:09 AM  

Lunaville: Izunbacol: - if you find yourself in the single-parent boat after you're already in, you better have a Family Care Plan: you must have a local/short term, and a long term provider who will be able to take the kids at a moment's notice if you have short notice orders.

Does this mean that a male, who loses his wife to a car wreck or cancer, would have to have a log term provider? Would he not be dismissed/allowed to depart from the military in order to care for his family?


Those are the options. Maintain a family care plan or be discharged. It is usually an honorable discharge too, unless you've got other issues.
 
2012-10-25 10:04:40 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: whosits_112: Hey, jackass, we aren't hating on her for being a woman and having a kid. We are discussing how this woman failed the terms of her contract and is being released because of it. Read the freakin' contract. If she had told them THE EXACT MOMENT she had found out instead of waiting months AFTER she had been comissioned, they probably would havebeen lenient and accomodating. But she didn't. She screwed up, and now she pays the price.

Ooooh, ah. The good old imperial authoritarian beat down!
She found out two weeks before she got her commission.
So the fark what?
She's an Air Force nurse.
Let her serve, a-holes.
The biggest danger she'll ever face in her career will be dodging golf balls shot by the doctors and jet jocks after Mongolian barbecue at the Officer's Club or whatever politically correct thing they're calling them nowadays.


Shove that authoritarian shiat up your ass. She found out 2 weeks before, and told them 6 months later that she was pregnant. I have no sympathy for her actions.
 
2012-10-25 10:05:03 AM  

sprawl15: Lunaville: I'm female. I'm a Mom. I consider myself to be fairly feminist. And I am absolutely okay with the decision to dismiss this young lady from the military. A child does not raise itself. Any single parent, whether it is a single Mom or a Dad who is a widower, for instance; should be released from military duty so that child can have a parent.

I know with service academies it wasn't gender based - you generally weren't allowed to be married and attend, and if you got a girl pregnant while there they'd boot you just as quickly as if you were the one who became pregnant. Not sure how it goes for ROTC or enlistments, but I'd imagine it's very very similar.


We maybe shouldn't go there considering the number of secret marriages that have happened in among these cadets. I know my own in-laws were married before my husbands Dad was even dropped off in Annapolis. The same is true of hubbys' paternal grandparents. Everyone knows some of these little guys are getting married almost the minute they're fully potty-trained and people look the other way because their own parents and grandparents did it also once upon a time.
 
2012-10-25 10:06:22 AM  
I used to date a girl in the air force. She was always ultra careful about that. She said that by enlisting she agreed that her body was property of the air force so if they say you can't get preggers they mean it.
 
2012-10-25 10:06:40 AM  

neenerist: craig328: So...war against women liars anyone?

Entitlement so thick you can cut it with a knife.....


Maybe. I'm just not entirely convinced that if the commander in chief subscribed to a different political philosophy that he wouldn't be in the media crosshairs over this while he was going about claiming his political opponent is waging a war against women is all.

I'm betting the discharged young lady is wishing today that she'd gone gay. That way, she could keep her commission and her scholarship and nobody from the military would have even asked.
 
2012-10-25 10:07:54 AM  

RugNug: Lunaville: Izunbacol: - if you find yourself in the single-parent boat after you're already in, you better have a Family Care Plan: you must have a local/short term, and a long term provider who will be able to take the kids at a moment's notice if you have short notice orders.

Does this mean that a male, who loses his wife to a car wreck or cancer, would have to have a log term provider? Would he not be dismissed/allowed to depart from the military in order to care for his family?

Those are the options. Maintain a family care plan or be discharged. It is usually an honorable discharge too, unless you've got other issues.


Yeah, the honorable-ness of the discharge depends on why it happens. If you lose your wife because of cancer and decide to take the kids, they'd be very helpful. If you covered up a divorce until after you received, say, expensive training that automatically upped your commitment, then they'd give zero farks.
 
2012-10-25 10:08:25 AM  
Now I'm forced to wonder what the policy is if the woman was married, had a kid and her husband died.

She's still a single mom. Does she get shiatcanned then as well?
 
2012-10-25 10:10:26 AM  

sprawl15: Lunaville: I'm female. I'm a Mom. I consider myself to be fairly feminist. And I am absolutely okay with the decision to dismiss this young lady from the military. A child does not raise itself. Any single parent, whether it is a single Mom or a Dad who is a widower, for instance; should be released from military duty so that child can have a parent.

I know with service academies it wasn't gender based - you generally weren't allowed to be married and attend, and if you got a girl pregnant while there they'd boot you just as quickly as if you were the one who became pregnant. Not sure how it goes for ROTC or enlistments, but I'd imagine it's very very similar.


ROTC when I was in college was like that. Guy or Girl.

You couldn't get married. You get preggo, or knock someone up, then in the eyes of the military, you can't handle your shiat.
 
2012-10-25 10:12:39 AM  
Okay, hotigneous is trolling. Bye bye.

Ejectorseat.jpeg
 
2012-10-25 10:14:35 AM  

craig328: Now I'm forced to wonder what the policy is if the woman was married, had a kid and her husband died.

She's still a single mom. Does she get shiatcanned then as well?


Of course not.
 
2012-10-25 10:15:23 AM  
I think it's time to leave this thread... No one's reading anything anyway, except for the bountiful troll bait.
 
2012-10-25 10:15:58 AM  

whosits_112: Shove that authoritarian shiat up your ass. She found out 2 weeks before, and told them 6 months later that she was pregnant. I have no sympathy for her actions.


So noted.
It's also important to note that your opinion neither matters nor counts for purposes of argument.
And yes, authoritarian followers never need produce original thoughts. Just run with the rats and screw everybody else, including single moms. This sort of attitude is exactly why this young woman will be better off out of the military. She'll take her awesome education and have a great career.
 
2012-10-25 10:16:39 AM  

Fark It: Is the policy fair to single parents? No. Is it fair to their children and the U.S. taxpayer? Yes.


As an Army brat, I absolutely agree with this.
 
2012-10-25 10:17:18 AM  

Lunaville: I'm female. I'm a Mom. I consider myself to be fairly feminist. And I am absolutely okay with the decision to dismiss this young lady from the military. A child does not raise itself. Any single parent, whether it is a single Mom or a Dad who is a widower, for instance; should be released from military duty so that child can have a parent.

If an individual feels strongly that military service is more important in his or her life than parenting his or her child, then that individual should place the child for adoption. The child might be adopted by his or her grandparents rather than placed with an entirely new family, but custody of the child should be transferred to someone who is willing to do the work of parenting the child.

The well-meaning, but misguided attorney representing this young lady does not fully understand what the consequences could be should she win this case. Imagine not just unwed parents, but individuals who have lost a spouse facing not the privilege, but the requirement to remain in the military and thus being deprived of the right to parent his or her child. I feel confident that it would be a very short walk from allowing single parents to requiring single parents to remain in the military. This young lady and her attorney think they are advocating for womens' rights. Really, they are advocating for the destruction of parental rights for both men and women. This young woman and her attorney are probably good, decent people with good intentions, but they are wrong and, per my grandmother, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.


Very well said!
 
2012-10-25 10:17:46 AM  

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Okay, hotigneous is trolling. Bye bye.

Ejectorseat.jpeg


That means I'm winning.
 
2012-10-25 10:18:04 AM  

MythDragon: "If Ms. Edmonds had reported her pregnancy she would have been placed on medical recheck status until she gave birth. At that time she would have been been able to commission if she were not a single parent, for example, if she were married, or had given the child up for adoption."


[cdn.ebaumsworld.com image 320x220]
It's all there, black and white, clear as crystal! You got pregnant! You have a kid that the Air Force now has to worry about, so you get nothing! You lose! Good day, ma'am!


I totally read "she would have been placed on medical redneck status"

/i had a lolz
 
2012-10-25 10:19:11 AM  
"Hey mom, will you raise my kid for me? It's really getting in the way of what I want to do."
fark her and her stupid choices.
 
2012-10-25 10:20:08 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: whosits_112: Hey, jackass, we aren't hating on her for being a woman and having a kid. We are discussing how this woman failed the terms of her contract and is being released because of it. Read the freakin' contract. If she had told them THE EXACT MOMENT she had found out instead of waiting months AFTER she had been comissioned, they probably would havebeen lenient and accomodating. But she didn't. She screwed up, and now she pays the price.

Ooooh, ah. The good old imperial authoritarian beat down!
She found out two weeks before she got her commission.
So the fark what?
She's an Air Force nurse.
Let her serve, a-holes.
The biggest danger she'll ever face in her career will be dodging golf balls shot by the doctors and jet jocks after Mongolian barbecue at the Officer's Club or whatever politically correct thing they're calling them nowadays.


I have a desire to comfort you but that can't be done over the internet and any attempt might be misconstrued as mockery. So, I'll just point out that FormerFloozy and I are females. I doubt either of us hates females.

I personally don't advocate punishing the young lady in the article, beyond dismissing her from the military, for having a baby. Nor do I advocate taking mass cheek swabs, hunting down baby-Daddy, and punishing him for knocking boots.

Someone up-thread has already accurately determined that I've never served in the military. Still, I do believe your assumption that nurses are never deployed to dangerous zones is incorrect. I believe we still use field hospitals. I believe those field hospitals require nurses to operate and are frequently located in dangerous areas. One of you veterans jump in here and add some accuracy and detail to this assertion.

Last, the needs of the child are paramount. I'm okay with her having the baby. I'm okay with her placing the baby for adoption or retaining custody of the baby. However, if she chooses to keep her baby then I expect her to commit to parenting the baby. It all revolves around the word parent which is a verb.

Also, as a nurse, she'll be fine. She can pick up a weekend only shift at a hospital working 12 to 16 hour days on Friday, Saturday and Sunday while the grandparents babysit. That will allow her the remainder of her week to spend with her child. She'll make a decent wage and she'll have invaluable time with her son.
 
2012-10-25 10:20:20 AM  

Lunaville: We maybe shouldn't go there considering the number of secret marriages that have happened in among these cadets. I know my own in-laws were married before my husbands Dad was even dropped off in Annapolis. The same is true of hubbys' paternal grandparents. Everyone knows some of these little guys are getting married almost the minute they're fully potty-trained and people look the other way because their own parents and grandparents did it also once upon a time.


Eh, they really won't do significant digging if you keep it very quiet, but that's far from a guarantee. It's similar to being gay under DADT; having anyone find out in any degree is a risk, especially when it came to higher ups.
 
2012-10-25 10:21:01 AM  

FTDA: I feel confident that it would be a very short walk from allowing single parents to requiring single parents to remain in the military.


They signed a contract, RIGHT?
Why would that be wrong?

When uncle sugar spends tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars to train someone, that person should be allowed to serve, regardless of orientation or parental or marital status. To do anything else is to perpetuate useless and wasteful and biased policies.
Parents can do anything a non-parent can do.
 
2012-10-25 10:21:09 AM  

Englebert Slaptyback:
Re-read my last paragraph about the amazing coincidence. It would be very easy to make the plausible case that she always intended to get pregnant post-school/pre-serve and thus the original signing of the contract was indeed fraudulent, since she never intended to fulfill her side of the bargain but wanted to receive the benefit of the funding.


That's my impression. As staed by others, there are way to game the system in regards to being pregnant (or thousands of other medical conditions), but first you have to be IN the system. People just on the cusp of getting into the system who suddenly develop medical issues are quickly shown the door. It's not news when annually hundreds of enlistments and commisions are medically withdrawn. She discovers that she'll probably have to pay back her scholarship (since pregnancy isn't like suddenly developing asthma), so she's got to make a racket somehow.
 
2012-10-25 10:21:39 AM  
But they do the same thing to men who get pregnant, so, it's fair.
 
2012-10-25 10:22:31 AM  
I think the policy against single parents is a bit antiquated and harsh (it would make more sense to just require that a responsible party sign on to take care of the kid, even if they aren't married to the mother) but this girl is either extremely stupid or dishonest and unprofessional. I'm betting on the latter, but in either case, she does not deserve her scholarship or her position.

I am not in the military, nor do I have immediate family in the military (as she does) and *I* know you are required to disclose any changes in your health when you are seeking to join the service. It's not a secret, hidden policy that a poor, innocent teenaged girl would have been unable to find out about. I'm fairly certain she knew about and understood it.

Not to mention that anyone with common sense would expect even a private employer to be a bit put out if you showed up for work 6 months pregnant, expecting full benefits and maternity leave, without having mentioned it before. The military, which might have been expecting to be able to send her overseas into a dangerous area where she would be expected to do the work of an able-bodied, not heavily pregnant person would be especially unhappy, especially after footing the $93,000 bill for her education.

She chose to be irresponsible and allow herself to get pregnant (If military service was so important, she should have been taking extra precautions so close to starting.). She then chose to keep it a secret until she was enlisted and she figured they'd have to deal with it (WRONG!). Now she's playing the victim and pulling in a hot-button issue like abortion, thinking that she can tantrum her way into the military. She doesn't deserve to serve our country and I hope she enjoys paying back every red cent of her loans.
 
2012-10-25 10:24:12 AM  

Lunaville: Also, as a nurse, she'll be fine. She can pick up a weekend only shift at a hospital working 12 to 16 hour days on Friday, Saturday and Sunday while the grandparents babysit. That will allow her the remainder of her week to spend with her child. She'll make a decent wage and she'll have invaluable time with her son.


This.
Plus, she can also take a lawyer and visit Baby Foetus's daddy and make arrangements for him to make a monthly freedom payment to support the child.
Because freedom isn't free.
 
2012-10-25 10:30:23 AM  
Did this 15 years ago. Except was married for 7 years prior and disclosed immediately. The rub was not the "Family Care Plan," but rather the change in medical status. The AF made it very clear if some chronic ailment attaches itself to you (hypertension, for example) during pregnancy that disqualifies you from service, they'd rather not take you in. Just good business. The option we elected was to spawn, get back to PT standards, get medical to omni-omni, and commission 10 months later. The AF did state we would be on the hook for 40 large if this plan did not go to fruition. The loophole was the PT test. If you failed, they could not commission, and we owed nothing.

Questions?

Funny side note: The telephone colonel advised the wife to sign the commissioning form, keep her mouth shut and everything would be just fine, "the folks at the academy will commission as long as you don't show, honey." This from an officer who was hiding her sexual orientation. Not a guess, I flew with her girlfriend for 5 years.

Core values, indeed. Sheriff McLawdog made me shoot coffee out my eyeballs with the "not sure if serious" troll. How's those core values workin' out for you, dog?

end communication.

The AF is like the real world, lots of derp.
Please keep your morals and your hobbies to yourself.
In for 24...Been there, done blah blah blah
no slashies
 
2012-10-25 10:35:43 AM  

Disposable Rob: She discovers that she'll probably have to pay back her scholarship (since pregnancy isn't like suddenly developing asthma), so she's got to make a racket somehow.


You don't suddenly develop asthma.
CSB: Had a friend who suddenly developed asthma after he joined the Army. He got pneumonia in basic training and got med boarded out for having a pre-exisiting condition. He went on to ride a bicycle 1,000 kilometers through Europe and become a certified scuba diver, skydiver, and long-distance hiker. No hint of asthma. He considers himself very lucky he got out of that clusterfark of stoopid. His type of discharge was "uncharacterized," which means it basically never happened.
 
2012-10-25 10:36:16 AM  

ha-ha-guy: ha-ha-guy: This woman is an idiot. First she could just have her parents adopt the kid and avoid this entire mess (after all they're willing to be supportive). Then work out a verbal agreement that she pays them, gets the kid, etc. On paper though have her parents as the baby's adoptive parents.

Secondly, she could in theory owe the Air Force for her tuition and stipend. Normally for things like getting knocked up and becoming a single parent the military just shows you the door, because they don't want the negative PR of suing single parents for large amounts of money. However consider she lied to them and has decided to go public/sue them, now they might as well go after her for their money. They have nothing to lose in terms of PR.

/our military is better off without her as an officer

Derp, upon rereading the article I note that she is actually paying off her 92k debt to the USAF. Suddenly this all makes sense. The Air Force decided they didn't like lying little butterbars and nailed for the money. She's not doing this over discrimination or a desire to serve the country, she's doing this to avoid the debt. According to the article she's paying 100 dollars a month, which means it takes 76.7 years to pay off just the principle. With interest she'll never get out from under this debt at that rate. It must be farking up her credit report or something so she went out and got a lawyer.

Also the military has had all kinds of rules about making orphans, family serving together (the Sullivan Brothers rule), etc. I doubt any court is going to challenge the military based on "We don't want to make orphans", let alone the part where she lies under oath.


From what I remember, student loans paid for by Uncle Sam through ROTC automatically are discharged after a certain period of continuous service. The monthly payments really are just a formality.
 
2012-10-25 10:38:17 AM  

Milo Minderbinder: Everybody is ignoring the real stupidity here: paying $92 large for an undergraduate degree from a third-rate Jesuit school.




THIS

Marquette is an overpriced Ponzi scheme. If you plan to be a lawyer or dentist in Southeast Wisconsin, it has a little juice, but outside of that you might as well go to DeVry.

Pretty much everyone knows you go to Marquette if you're too dumb to get into Notre Dame or Northwestern.
 
2012-10-25 10:38:18 AM  

I AM BECOME DERP: In for 24...Been there, done blah blah blah


Do you remember back before DADT? Do you remember the mid-eighties when people were out about their sexual orientation? Well, women were anyway. I remember a beautiful female cadet from Guam. The guys loved her and she was open about being gay. I always remember her when DADT comes up and I still resent Clinton for betraying people like her.
 
2012-10-25 10:40:15 AM  
The point of the article is that all military chicks should take it in the pooper.
 
2012-10-25 10:42:16 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Disposable Rob: She discovers that she'll probably have to pay back her scholarship (since pregnancy isn't like suddenly developing asthma), so she's got to make a racket somehow.

You don't suddenly develop asthma.
CSB: Had a friend who suddenly developed asthma after he joined the Army. He got pneumonia in basic training and got med boarded out for having a pre-exisiting condition. He went on to ride a bicycle 1,000 kilometers through Europe and become a certified scuba diver, skydiver, and long-distance hiker. No hint of asthma. He considers himself very lucky he got out of that clusterfark of stoopid. His type of discharge was "uncharacterized," which means it basically never happened.


You might not be aware that you have it though. My doctor finally convinced me that I have asthma at around age 40. I found it difficult to believe because I felt strongly the diagnosis would have been made sooner. Then, I learned from my nut-job parents that I had been diagnosed with asthma at age 3 or 4 and they had decided not to treat me because they were concerned I'd become addicted to the medication and because the medication was expensive. They actually said "We didn't want to waste that money on something you didn't really need."
 
2012-10-25 10:43:54 AM  
This kind of disgrace wouldn't happen if we had more gays in the military.

=Smidge=
/Technically correct
//The best kind of correct
 
2012-10-25 10:46:48 AM  

jeffowl: So, she's a good Catholic when it comes to dealing with pregnancy, but not when it came to getting pregnant in the first place.


If only there were some way to prevent unplanned pregnancies.
 
2012-10-25 10:50:17 AM  

Fark It: HotIgneous Intruder: but she didn't expect that the Air Force would do something so idiotic as toss her for fulfilling her biological purpose.

/Authoritarian girl-haters are cretins. Get off my planet.

You have to be trolling...


He is. No matter what the topic of a thread is, his schtick is to blast out the most antagonistic comments he can devise. Don't feed him.
 
2012-10-25 10:51:13 AM  

Lunaville: They actually said "We didn't want to waste that money on something you didn't really need."


Wow.
 
2012-10-25 10:52:32 AM  

Lunaville: Do you remember back before DADT? Do you remember the mid-eighties when people were out about their sexual orientation? Well, women were anyway. I remember a beautiful female cadet from Guam. The guys loved her and she was open about being gay. I always remember her when DADT comes up and I still resent Clinton for betraying people like her.


Actually, I was enlisted in the Army from 85 - 89. I assure you, in the infantry world men were NOT open about being gay. It would get you beat up and drummed out. I'm glad your friend in Guam got to be a bit more forthcoming, but Clinton didn't drop the bomb on gays in uniform, he just let the existing situation slide without helping it.
 
2012-10-25 10:53:21 AM  
That was before she says she learned the Air Force forbid single parents from enlisting.

Something you may have thought to research a little first, dumbass.
 
2012-10-25 10:53:25 AM  

sprawl15: RugNug: Lunaville: Izunbacol: - if you find yourself in the single-parent boat after you're already in, you better have a Family Care Plan: you must have a local/short term, and a long term provider who will be able to take the kids at a moment's notice if you have short notice orders.

Does this mean that a male, who loses his wife to a car wreck or cancer, would have to have a log term provider? Would he not be dismissed/allowed to depart from the military in order to care for his family?

Those are the options. Maintain a family care plan or be discharged. It is usually an honorable discharge too, unless you've got other issues.

Yeah, the honorable-ness of the discharge depends on why it happens. If you lose your wife because of cancer and decide to take the kids, they'd be very helpful. If you covered up a divorce until after you received, say, expensive training that automatically upped your commitment, then they'd give zero farks.


Yep.
 
2012-10-25 10:54:03 AM  
You would think with all these stories of women gaming the system the military would install an IUD in women for the term of their service.
 
2012-10-25 11:00:25 AM  

Bhruic: I don't have a problem with her fighting against the ruling - if her extended family is able to provide support for the kid, why shouldn't she have the same ability to be an officer? But the railing against the abortion angle, as if she's somehow being penalized for not having one when it's her choice not to in the first place? Yeah, idiot. Not to mention the whole "premarital sex being against the Catholic faith" angle that's already been covered.


I would agree with you if she hadn't shown terrible judgement concealing the pregnancy. I've known people booted from ROTC (before commissioning) for dropping the ball on one job because the way he did so showed horrible communication skills. They're not obligated to take bad officer candidates, and lying to get her commission not only showed she was a bad candidate but also gave them a good route to get rid of her.
 
2012-10-25 11:02:58 AM  

DoBeDoBeDo: The point of the article is that all military chicks should take it in the pooper.


Sounds legit...
 
2012-10-25 11:05:24 AM  

Lunaville: HotIgneous Intruder: whosits_112: Hey, jackass, we aren't hating on her for being a woman and having a kid. We are discussing how this woman failed the terms of her contract and is being released because of it. Read the freakin' contract. If she had told them THE EXACT MOMENT she had found out instead of waiting months AFTER she had been comissioned, they probably would havebeen lenient and accomodating. But she didn't. She screwed up, and now she pays the price.

Ooooh, ah. The good old imperial authoritarian beat down!
She found out two weeks before she got her commission.
So the fark what?
She's an Air Force nurse.
Let her serve, a-holes.
The biggest danger she'll ever face in her career will be dodging golf balls shot by the doctors and jet jocks after Mongolian barbecue at the Officer's Club or whatever politically correct thing they're calling them nowadays.

I have a desire to comfort you but that can't be done over the internet and any attempt might be misconstrued as mockery. So, I'll just point out that FormerFloozy and I are females. I doubt either of us hates females.

I personally don't advocate punishing the young lady in the article, beyond dismissing her from the military, for having a baby. Nor do I advocate taking mass cheek swabs, hunting down baby-Daddy, and punishing him for knocking boots.

Someone up-thread has already accurately determined that I've never served in the military. Still, I do believe your assumption that nurses are never deployed to dangerous zones is incorrect. I believe we still use field hospitals. I believe those field hospitals require nurses to operate and are frequently located in dangerous areas. One of you veterans jump in here and add some accuracy and detail to this assertion.

Last, the needs of the child are paramount. I'm okay with her having the baby. I'm okay with her placing the baby for adoption or retaining custody of the baby. However, if she chooses to keep her baby then I expect her to commit to parenting the baby. It all revolves around the word parent which is a verb.

Also, as a nurse, she'll be fine. She can pick up a weekend only shift at a hospital working 12 to 16 hour days on Friday, Saturday and Sunday while the grandparents babysit. That will allow her the remainder of her week to spend with her child. She'll make a decent wage and she'll have invaluable time with her son.


An Army doctor surgically removed a live RPG from a soldier in Afghanistan. I heard that a Navy nurse performed a similar operation, but I haven't researched that one.
 
2012-10-25 11:05:37 AM  
While I'm not as salty as some of you heartless farkers, I do think that young, career-minded, women should be aware that child birth might have an adverse impact on their plans. Just say'n.

/ question for the Airforce: waddaya do in the case of divorce after commissioning or enlistment? And do the same rules apply to single fathers with custody?
 
2012-10-25 11:14:57 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Disposable Rob: She discovers that she'll probably have to pay back her scholarship (since pregnancy isn't like suddenly developing asthma), so she's got to make a racket somehow.

You don't suddenly develop asthma.


The More You Know...★
 
2012-10-25 11:17:26 AM  
i think she did this to try to force the baby daddy to marry her. But he still won't.
 
2012-10-25 11:19:09 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Disposable Rob: She discovers that she'll probably have to pay back her scholarship (since pregnancy isn't like suddenly developing asthma), so she's got to make a racket somehow.

You don't suddenly develop asthma.
CSB: Had a friend who suddenly developed asthma after he joined the Army. He got pneumonia in basic training and got med boarded out for having a pre-exisiting condition. He went on to ride a bicycle 1,000 kilometers through Europe and become a certified scuba diver, skydiver, and long-distance hiker. No hint of asthma. He considers himself very lucky he got out of that clusterfark of stoopid. His type of discharge was "uncharacterized," which means it basically never happened.


Actually, adults can develop asthma, often following a bad respiratory infection, so your friend probably did develop it in boot camp. Then, after the stressed lungs have some months to recover, they might not need treatment any more. Happened even to a friend of mine whose idea of fun is carrying stretchers up and down the Rocky Mountains to rescue idiots.
 
2012-10-25 11:20:08 AM  

crab66: .Gotta side with the military here. She failed to live up to her responsibilities.


Yes, and she failed to live up to her responsibilities w/ her church as well, has she asked them for 'leeway' on whether her son is a bastard in their eyes?
I'm diligent about misogyny in the Air Force, it IS there, though probably not as much in the nursing field as the pilot field, but this is not a case of discrimination. Had she been a man the repercussions would have been the same if he'd lied by omission as well. She doesn't just win because BABBY.

Lastly, the pro-life spin on this from her folks is stomach-churning and an insult to genuine reproductive rights issues.

FFS, someone kick this damn soapbox out from under me!!!11!!
 
2012-10-25 11:26:15 AM  

fireclown: Lunaville: Do you remember back before DADT? Do you remember the mid-eighties when people were out about their sexual orientation? Well, women were anyway. I remember a beautiful female cadet from Guam. The guys loved her and she was open about being gay. I always remember her when DADT comes up and I still resent Clinton for betraying people like her.

Actually, I was enlisted in the Army from 85 - 89. I assure you, in the infantry world men were NOT open about being gay. It would get you beat up and drummed out. I'm glad your friend in Guam got to be a bit more forthcoming, but Clinton didn't drop the bomb on gays in uniform, he just let the existing situation slide without helping it.


She had an advantage in being female. Howard Stern nailed it when he said "America loves lesbians." I had classes with her during the 8o's. The other cadets really loved her. She had the strangest, sweetest friendship with a guy who sat behind me in one of our classes. He frequently offered to go down on her if she ever got lonely, but only if she wanted him to. She did not want, but he continued to offer. He offered to wear a pink wig. He pointed out that he required no batteries and was environmentally friendly. Once he asked her to notice how life-like his skin was. He stated that he was "really good at taking orders".

I think he kept it up for so long because it made her laugh. Toward the end of the year she got a girlfriend and started thinking about having a family someday. It's been a very long time, but she said, essentially, "I'd love to have a son like any one of these guys." or "I'd be proud for any of these guys to be my son." She left the room, for a second you could have heard a pin drop, then the "Oh wows" started. Then her buddy behind me groaned "Oh G-d, she's ruined it for me!" The female Colonel present in the room laid her head down face down on her desk and laughed. We all laughed.

Despite his silliness, it was obvious he really did care about the young lady from Guam.
 
2012-10-25 11:26:48 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Let the woman hate shine out in this thread, farkers.
Let the authoritarian followers howl at the moon.


While you are absolutely dead wrong on this one, I must say I am surprised you are (so far) a lone voice in the wilderness.
 
2012-10-25 11:26:53 AM  
It seems the current state of the US military is pretty bad. Country might be ripe for a military takeover...
 
2012-10-25 11:35:27 AM  
Why is it so hard not to get pregnant? I have been pregnant once, on purpose. And I've had sex twice!
 
2012-10-25 11:35:36 AM  
Oh yeah - can't her parents officially adopt the child?
 
2012-10-25 11:38:37 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: FTDA: I feel confident that it would be a very short walk from allowing single parents to requiring single parents to remain in the military.

They signed a contract, RIGHT?
Why would that be wrong?

When uncle sugar spends tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars to train someone, that person should be allowed to serve, regardless of orientation or parental or marital status. To do anything else is to perpetuate useless and wasteful and biased policies.
Parents can do anything a non-parent can do.


You're a very good troll, but you make mistakes from time to time. The italicized comment you attribute to me wasn't mine.
 
2012-10-25 11:52:36 AM  

Lunaville: Sgt Otter: We had a few guys get the boot after a divorce, and the ex-wife didn't want custody

Wow, that possibility never occurred to me. I wonder how many of these women were secretly still in love with their husbands and crazy determined to remove them from a potentially deadly situation?


Most of them married way too early, and felt that they had been "cheated" out of their 20s. Being a mom robbed them of the joys of getting wasted at 10am and blowing random dudes every night.
 
2012-10-25 11:53:44 AM  

pciszek: jeffowl: So, she's a good Catholic when it comes to dealing with pregnancy, but not when it came to getting pregnant in the first place.

This never made sense to me--if you are willing to commit the sin of fornication, why not commit the sin of birth control at the same time so as to not have to worry about the possibility of the sin of abortion later?


The way they rationalize it is they tell themselves that using birth control is planning to have sex. This sex was unplanned, just heavy petting that went too far by accident.

/in their minds, anyway.
 
2012-10-25 12:07:05 PM  

ZombiesYall: hy is it so hard not to get pregnant?


Because of the way it feels when the penis goes into the vagina.

/Duh
 
2012-10-25 12:10:12 PM  
Unless the job requires a penis or a vagina to do the work I could care less who's got which plumbing.

What I do care about is respecting the damn job.

Fark her. Throw her overboard pronto and salt the ground where she walked.
 
2012-10-25 12:17:47 PM  

Clemkadidlefark: Unless the job requires a penis or a vagina to do the work I could care less who's got which plumbing.

What I do care about is respecting the damn job.

Fark her. Throw her overboard pronto and salt the ground where she walked.


Calm down Beavis. She knocked boots while either failing to use birth control or experiencing a birth control failure resulting in the birth of a baby. She didn't piss on her commanding officer and wipe with the American flag. Salting the earth will not be necessary.
 
2012-10-25 12:18:03 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Let the woman hate shine out in this thread, farkers.
Let the authoritarian followers howl at the moon.


images.cheezburger.com
 
2012-10-25 12:36:47 PM  
You get no tears from me. Let us list your mistakes here
1. Broke your contract
2. I am assuming didn't use birth control
3. Failed to report your condition which is deception
4. Enlisted under false conditions
5. Failed to get married, abort or place for adoption which would have eliminated the problem

I am all for the rights of women, but you don't get to cry equal rights for me after you break the law she is lucky she was just discharged and not court marshaled.

Also nice toss in of Paul Ryan CNN nice to see your bias towards Republicans could enter into the story somewhere. I think we all know why this is big news right now and we are meant to feel sorry for a law breaking, liar and a cheater.
 
2012-10-25 12:36:49 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: The USSA ranks lowest in the developed world for maternity leave.


Good we already shell out enough welfare dollars to people who have kids they cannot afford, despite free condoms at the local clinic. No reason to increase the burden on the tax payers with the financial costs of those who decide to commit parenthood.

If you can't feed them don't breed them.
 
2012-10-25 12:53:58 PM  

Profedius: You get no tears from me. Let us list your mistakes here
1. Broke your contract
2. I am assuming didn't use birth control -- Or the condom blew out.
3. Failed to report your condition which is deception
4. Enlisted under false conditions
5. Failed to get married, abort or place for adoption which would have eliminated the problem

I am all for the rights of women, but you don't get to cry equal rights for me after you break the law she is lucky she was just discharged and not court marshaled.

Also nice toss in of Paul Ryan CNN nice to see your bias towards Republicans could enter into the story somewhere. I think we all know why this is big news right now and we are meant to feel sorry for a law breaking, liar and a cheater.


Are you sure you're not upset that somebody got laid?
 
2012-10-25 12:55:39 PM  

hasty ambush: HotIgneous Intruder: The USSA ranks lowest in the developed world for maternity leave.

Good we already shell out enough welfare dollars to people who have kids they cannot afford, despite free condoms at the local clinic. No reason to increase the burden on the tax payers with the financial costs of those who decide to commit parenthood.

If you can't feed them don't breed them.


Are you sure you know what maternity leave is?
Are you, like Profedius, also upset that someone got laid?
 
2012-10-25 01:06:03 PM  
If she were truly a practicing Catholic, she would have abstained from pre-marital sex to begin with. When will people learn that you can not break God's laws, you can only break yourself against God's laws.
 
2012-10-25 01:14:27 PM  

Lunaville: Profedius: You get no tears from me. Let us list your mistakes here
1. Broke your contract
2. I am assuming didn't use birth control -- Or the condom blew out.
3. Failed to report your condition which is deception
4. Enlisted under false conditions
5. Failed to get married, abort or place for adoption which would have eliminated the problem

I am all for the rights of women, but you don't get to cry equal rights for me after you break the law she is lucky she was just discharged and not court marshaled.

Also nice toss in of Paul Ryan CNN nice to see your bias towards Republicans could enter into the story somewhere. I think we all know why this is big news right now and we are meant to feel sorry for a law breaking, liar and a cheater.

Are you sure you're not upset that somebody got laid?


I am a decorated foreign war veteran, I had sex with my girlfriend last night and she woke me with oral sex this morning (We just started our relationship a few months ago) so I am pretty sure her getting laid has little to do with it.
 
2012-10-25 01:23:26 PM  
There really is no story here. She and her family need to make a decision about what is more important; her career or raising her child.
 
2012-10-25 01:49:10 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: She knew she would be on the hook if she screwed up, but she didn't expect that the Air Force would do something so idiotic as toss her for fulfilling her biological purpose.

/Authoritarian girl-haters are cretins. Get off my planet.


A woman's purpose in life is to reproduce? You hate women far more than the people you're criticizing.

/you - off my planet
//is a female who will not fulfill her "biological purpose"
 
2012-10-25 01:56:17 PM  

Crackers Are a Family Food: HotIgneous Intruder: She knew she would be on the hook if she screwed up, but she didn't expect that the Air Force would do something so idiotic as toss her for fulfilling her biological purpose.

/Authoritarian girl-haters are cretins. Get off my planet.

A woman's purpose in life is to reproduce? You hate women far more than the people you're criticizing.

/you - off my planet
//is a female who will not fulfill her "biological purpose"


As ever on fark, you have nearly perfectly misunderstood my post so that it means what you want it to mean and you can unsheath your sword of indignation.
Simplest possible terms, right?
Listen toots, it is every biological organism's imperative to reproduce. Women are the only humans who can catch the spermeeze and spark up a new human. Some women chose to do this, some do not. The ones who do chose to breed do not require vilification or your approval.
I think nobody should be discriminated against either way.

/You're either bitter that you will never breed or you're really resentful of those who have, do and did. Perhaps there are theraputic solutions to your issue.
 
2012-10-25 01:59:13 PM  

loaba: There really is no story here. She and her family need to make a decision about what is more important; her career or raising her child.


It's not an either or problem at all.
She'll have Baby Foetus and a nice nursing career, paid for by our Uncle Sugar.
Ta-Da!
 
2012-10-25 02:14:58 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: loaba: There really is no story here. She and her family need to make a decision about what is more important; her career or raising her child.

It's not an either or problem at all.
She'll have Baby Foetus and a nice nursing career, paid for by our Uncle Sugar.
Ta-Da!


I don't think you quite understand how the military works. They're not gonna change the rules just 'cause she's playing the family card on CNN. I expect the best they'll do is take her back after she signs the kid over to someone else. Barring that, she's gonna be working and paying off her loan just like anyone else.
 
2012-10-25 02:15:43 PM  
In fact, it's likely that Lieutenant Foetus took her page straight from the republican play book: socialize the liability, privatize the profits.

Socialized: The cost of a bachelor's degree in nursing.
Privatized: The career rewards of a bachelor's degree in nursing.

Mitt would love her.
 
2012-10-25 02:20:01 PM  

Profedius: Lunaville: Profedius: You get no tears from me. Let us list your mistakes here
1. Broke your contract
2. I am assuming didn't use birth control -- Or the condom blew out.
3. Failed to report your condition which is deception
4. Enlisted under false conditions
5. Failed to get married, abort or place for adoption which would have eliminated the problem

I am all for the rights of women, but you don't get to cry equal rights for me after you break the law she is lucky she was just discharged and not court marshaled.

Also nice toss in of Paul Ryan CNN nice to see your bias towards Republicans could enter into the story somewhere. I think we all know why this is big news right now and we are meant to feel sorry for a law breaking, liar and a cheater.

Are you sure you're not upset that somebody got laid?

I am a decorated foreign war veteran, I had sex with my girlfriend last night and she woke me with oral sex this morning (We just started our relationship a few months ago) so I am pretty sure her getting laid has little to do with it.


Sir, you have to take a look at these readings! Something must be wrong, ITG outputs are off the charts!

This is you, isn't it?
 
2012-10-25 02:39:03 PM  

loaba: HotIgneous Intruder: loaba: There really is no story here. She and her family need to make a decision about what is more important; her career or raising her child.

It's not an either or problem at all.
She'll have Baby Foetus and a nice nursing career, paid for by our Uncle Sugar.
Ta-Da!

I don't think you quite understand how the military works. They're not gonna change the rules just 'cause she's playing the family card on CNN. I expect the best they'll do is take her back after she signs the kid over to someone else. Barring that, she's gonna be working and paying off her loan just like anyone else.


I understand how the military works with a completeness that would explode your brains.
What you're not getting is that Former Lieutenant Foetus will be able to have a nice lucrative career no matter what happens. She can lawyer up against the babby daddy and get some monthly bucks there while she builds a career in nursing. She won't be hurt much by this stupidity directed at her. They can't repossess her education.
Fark the military; they're idiot authoritarian followers.
 
2012-10-25 02:42:08 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Crackers Are a Family Food: HotIgneous Intruder: She knew she would be on the hook if she screwed up, but she didn't expect that the Air Force would do something so idiotic as toss her for fulfilling her biological purpose.

/Authoritarian girl-haters are cretins. Get off my planet.

A woman's purpose in life is to reproduce? You hate women far more than the people you're criticizing.

/you - off my planet
//is a female who will not fulfill her "biological purpose"

As ever on fark, you have nearly perfectly misunderstood my post so that it means what you want it to mean and you can unsheath your sword of indignation.
Simplest possible terms, right?

Listen toots, it is every biological organism's imperative to reproduce. Women are the only humans who can catch the spermeeze and spark up a new human. Some women chose to do this, some do not.
I think nobody should be discriminated against either way.

/You're either bitter that you will never breed or you're really resentful of those who have, do and did. Perhaps there are theraputic solutions to your issue.


Figured you would backpedal on your misogynist statement. And add to it. Whether or not you want to admit it, not even woman worships babies. Some of us don't like them. But hey, we should still reproduce, right?

/you hate women who choose not to have kids - perhaps there are therapeutic solutions to your issue
 
2012-10-25 03:44:06 PM  
In the Navy we had storage for personal belongings and fenced areas for your cars to use while on deployment.

Why can't the Airforce just give her a storage locker to stick the baby in while she goes off to war? I really don't get this whole discrimination against single parents.
 
2012-10-25 04:00:46 PM  

Tat'dGreaser: They are allowed to cut your contract if they feel you lied about something. If this causes a negative mark that could follow her in life, she may win a case to remove that but the military is usually very quick about getting rid of women who are single and get pregnant. We had one get pregnant in Kosovo and they at least gave her the option and she chose to leave.


This seems to vary from branch to branch. I have a cousin in the Army who is a single mother with two kids who has had three deployments to Afghanistan. From my minimal exposure, it appears the Marine Corps and the Air Force have some really bizarre rules that fark over 1% of their members. The Army and the Navy don't seem to be such hardliners on these cases IMO.

/USAF taping policy is downright unscientific and dangerously unhealthy
 
2012-10-25 04:21:41 PM  

Bender The Offender: Oblio13: Spent 21 years in the Marines. A huge percentage of our woman Marines used to get pregnant either right before or during deployments. So a unit trains together like it should, then rotates overseas with brand new replacements to fill the holes. Now that I'm out I can say it: very, very few women pull their weight in the military.

My mom spent 24 years in the military, retired as a sgt. maj. She deployed around the world. She was an outstanding soldier and she joined as a single mother. I deplored to saudi and kosovo with female soldiers and pilots. Not one of them had their tours shortened for pregnancy. We did lose a few men to "stress" though. Just because youre a misogynistic douche doesn't mean reality reflects your "he man woman hater's club" mentality.

As far as the article goes, this woman is dishonest. She attempted to defraud the american people and manipulate the air force, now that she is being revealed for the morally bankrupt person she is, she is attempting to manipulate public opinion by turning a "you dishonestly violated a contract" situation into a "ZOMG the government wants to force me to have ABORTIONS". She has no honor, I hope she does jail time.


I don't know where, when, or how long you served, but the notion that female soldiers/marines/airmen/etc. pull weight equal to men is simply ridiculous. Start with the physical fitness tests and proceed from there. There are plenty of capable individuals, but the vast majority do not perform nearly the amount of work their male counterparts complete.
 
2012-10-25 04:34:56 PM  
She waited until she was 6 months pregnant before telling them? Sounds like she made the choice to leave the Air Force.
 
2012-10-25 05:30:25 PM  

daveUSMC: Profedius: Lunaville: Profedius: You get no tears from me. Let us list your mistakes here
1. Broke your contract
2. I am assuming didn't use birth control -- Or the condom blew out.
3. Failed to report your condition which is deception
4. Enlisted under false conditions
5. Failed to get married, abort or place for adoption which would have eliminated the problem

I am all for the rights of women, but you don't get to cry equal rights for me after you break the law she is lucky she was just discharged and not court marshaled.

Also nice toss in of Paul Ryan CNN nice to see your bias towards Republicans could enter into the story somewhere. I think we all know why this is big news right now and we are meant to feel sorry for a law breaking, liar and a cheater.

Are you sure you're not upset that somebody got laid?

I am a decorated foreign war veteran, I had sex with my girlfriend last night and she woke me with oral sex this morning (We just started our relationship a few months ago) so I am pretty sure her getting laid has little to do with it.

Sir, you have to take a look at these readings! Something must be wrong, ITG outputs are off the charts!

This is you, isn't it?


Roflmao You sir owe me a keyboard.

I drive a Mazda MX 5 with no bumper stickers though in the state of Louisiana you can get a license plate that states your branch and if you are a war vet or just a vet and I do have one of those. My thinking was that it might save me from some traffic tickets as a lot of the officers around here are ex service members. I won't get into penis size, but it is above average in both length and girth. My Boobies had nothing to do with manliness or being sexist it was about trying to get away with something you know is wrong and then complaining when you are discovered and punished. I also did point out that CNN loves the democrats so much that they can do no wrong, but those evil Republicans are preventing this young woman from serving by not stepping even though she broke the law and deserves her punishment.
 
2012-10-25 06:19:18 PM  
A pack of condoms cost less than an illegitimate child. If you're too stupid to realize this, you have no place protecting our country. Tired of sluts farking up then crying when things don't go their way. Shut the fark up and keep it in your farking pants without a condom. You're a stupid teenager for getting pregnant if you didn't want to be. So shove it up your whining ass. Deal with your MISTAKES and quietly accept any negative consequences that come up due to your MISTAKES. Don't make it into news, you farked up, deal with it quietly and take it, OR stop being sluts (male or female) and doing stupid shiat, then blaming everyone but yourself. No sympathy for single moms who chose assholes to fark instead of being responsible.
 
2012-10-25 07:05:05 PM  

rushthatspeaks: A pack of condoms cost less than an illegitimate child. If you're too stupid to realize this, you have no place protecting our country.


Imagine, if you will, a scenario where the former lieutenant's partner's male appendage was larger than you could imagine, vis-a-vis your personal sexual experience, and they double bagged it and the rubbers just blew up, broke, gave up the ghost? You need to have experience with such things to imagine this happening, so I'd imagine such an event is outside the reasonable ken of this cohort of knowledge.
Large cawks, applied vigorously and for a time to certain appropriate receptacles, destroy condoms.
 
2012-10-25 07:09:08 PM  

NiceBeaver: As far as the article goes, this woman is dishonest. She attempted to defraud the american people and manipulate the air force, now that she is being revealed for the morally bankrupt person she is, she is attempting to manipulate public opinion by turning a "you dishonestly violated a contract" situation into a "ZOMG the government wants to force me to have ABORTIONS". She has no honor, I hope she does jail time.


I wish I had as simple a view of honor as you do.
You can't repossess an education. Government pays, pregnant nurse walks.
Repayment won't be a problem for her.
 
2012-10-25 07:49:52 PM  
Buttsecks: free birth control. All ladies should be on it.
 
2012-10-26 02:03:59 AM  

AnubisMan: hasty ambush: also against military personnel below the pay grad eof E-4 with less than four years service being allowed to marry

They get the immediate perk of getting to move out of the dorms/barracks, however they lose half of their stuff in the divorce a year or two later, kind of balances out.


The best part is when the couple are both in the same unit and one gets a restraining order against the other. Christ my life was so much easier when I was deployed in Iraq, I didn't have to deal with the drama the idiots with permanent profiles spread around.
 
drp
2012-10-26 02:27:53 AM  

crab66: I know of a woman who injured herself to avoid being deployed. Nothing new.


We had a Marine who shot himself in the leg to avoid deploying. We took him anyway (over my objections - I didn't think taking a crazy person along was wise). He didn't get a weapon. He just filled sandbags and did garbage pickup every day so better Marines could spend less time doing those menial tasks.
 
2012-10-26 06:52:36 AM  

drp: We had a Marine who shot himself in the leg to avoid deploying. We took him anyway (over my objections - I didn't think taking a crazy person along was wise). He didn't get a weapon. He just filled sandbags and did garbage pickup every day so better Marines could spend less time doing those menial tasks.


There has to be some sort of rule or regulation against deploying soldiers if they aren't considered mentally fit enough to carry a firearm. I know someone who did deploy without a weapon to Kosovo because he failed his psych exam. Eventually a general found out about it and publicly chewed out our first sergeant, and that weaponless soldier was on his way back home the next day.
 
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