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(CNN)   Bank of America sued for $1 billion by Federal Government for mortgage fraud; so pay no attention to that $5 fee next time you use your BoA debit card at one of their ATMS   (money.cnn.com) divider line 73
    More: PSA, Bank of America, cash machines, mortgage fraud, clear messages, investment management, MetLife, Bharara, PIMCO  
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1235 clicks; posted to Business » on 25 Oct 2012 at 2:48 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-25 12:10:44 AM  
What's the S stand for, subby?
 
2012-10-25 12:18:51 AM  

naughtyrev: What's the S stand for, subby?


Automated Teller Machine System
 
2012-10-25 12:27:52 AM  
They're going to have to pay $50 and pickup the garbage in the snow.
 
2012-10-25 12:30:24 AM  
Why would you have a BOA debit account?
 
2012-10-25 12:50:31 AM  

GAT_00: Why would you have a BOA debit account?


Masochism.
 
2012-10-25 12:51:52 AM  
When you lock a guy up for smoking a joint, his family suffers. His kids don't have a choice about which dad they have. You have a choice about where to direct-deposit your f**king paycheck.
 
2012-10-25 12:57:49 AM  

MisterTweak: When you lock a guy up for smoking a joint, his family suffers. His kids don't have a choice about which dad they have. You have a choice about where to direct-deposit your f**king paycheck.


That's a f*cked up analogy.That wouldn't happen in most places. I've never met anyone locked up for smoking a joint but I've known plenty of people dinged by bank fees.
 
2012-10-25 01:07:01 AM  
Does anyone still USE Back of America? If so, why?
 
2012-10-25 01:22:22 AM  

Ambivalence: Does anyone still USE Back of America? If so, why?


I think your name is a fairly apt answer to this question.
 
2012-10-25 01:44:01 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: Ambivalence: Does anyone still USE Back of America? If so, why?

I think your name is a fairly apt answer to this question.


It's kinda true. I didn't want to drive 5 miles further for any other bank. Now a credit union opened up closer. Seriously considering it.
 
2012-10-25 01:45:44 AM  

Ambivalence: Does anyone still USE Back of America? If so, why?


The only reason that I use BoA is for the air miles. But that is soon going to change seeing that you get jack shiat for air miles these days whilst using a credit card.
 
2012-10-25 01:47:52 AM  

Makh: cameroncrazy1984: Ambivalence: Does anyone still USE Back of America? If so, why?

I think your name is a fairly apt answer to this question.

It's kinda true. I didn't want to drive 5 miles further for any other bank. Now a credit union opened up closer. Seriously considering it.


The single advantage of BOA over a credit union is availability of branches. That's it.
 
2012-10-25 01:56:26 AM  

GAT_00:
The single advantage of BOA over a credit union is availability of branches. That's it.


Credit unions are networked so you can do banking at a different credit unions on the same network so...

Not quite an andvantage at all.
 
2012-10-25 02:05:27 AM  

GAT_00: The single advantage of BOA over a credit union is availability of branches. That's it.


A few years ago that was most true for my area. It's becoming less of an advantage as banks are springing up here like pharmacies in Florida.

Ambivalence: Credit unions are networked so you can do banking at a different credit unions on the same network so...

Not quite an andvantage at all.


I'm seeing that now.
 
2012-10-25 02:30:36 AM  

Makh: It's kinda true. I didn't want to drive 5 miles further for any other bank. Now a credit union opened up closer. Seriously considering it.


I bank with an employee credit union based in a different state, and I love it even being distant. Online check deposit, billpay, and the NCUA network means I can even use member ATMs for cash deposits and withdrawals. Costco and CVS both have no-fee ATMs near me. As a bonus, I get 6.17% APR on the first $1k in the account for having direct-deposit and eStatements.

Move away from the big bank, it's so worth it!
 
2012-10-25 03:17:37 AM  

GAT_00: Why would you have a BOA debit account?


Because they bought your bank out and you haven't taken the time to move your money to another bank or a credit union?

/Oh, wait, that's Chase.
 
2012-10-25 03:22:50 AM  
The problem that subby alludes to is that the guys at the top are just going to roll this cost over to the customers. This is how business works, and this is how it will always be (the government, by the people, is effectively levying a BofA tax on the people).

You could say that the free market takes care of this thing- if BofA needs to have higher fees they aren't as competitive as the other banks in the system. I say that isn't good enough. This kind of behavior needs to be controlled, and the best way to do that is to level actual criminal penalties against the people engaging in fraud and abuse within banks, Throw those farkers in jail.

You coddle kids who don't know what they're doing is wrong. You put down rabid dogs. There's a difference in how we are treating these banks and how they should be treated.
 
2012-10-25 03:26:22 AM  

naughtyrev: What's the S stand for, subby?


TH if you have lisp.
 
2012-10-25 03:29:35 AM  

IlGreven: GAT_00: Why would you have a BOA debit account?

Because they bought your bank out and you haven't taken the time to move your money to another bank or a credit union?

/Oh, wait, that's Chase.


I actually like Chase because there's an ATM every two blocks in NYC and at every Duane Reade.

Every other bank charges $2+ to take money out plus $2 from Chase.

/No credit unions in NYC besides Montauk and they have one branch.
 
2012-10-25 03:29:36 AM  
I stopped using BoA years ago, when I was in the hospital and my account got overdrawn by 14 cents. They charged a 35 dollar overdraft fee on it and let me know that if I didn't pay up within 30 days, they would close the account. I had a friend take 35 bucks to the bank, but in my drug-induced delirium, somehow forgot the 14 cents. I called the bank and informed them of my error, but told them I was still in the hospital, so it would be a bit yet before I could make another deposit. I explained that I had had the account for more than a decade and was happy to bring it positive as soon as I got out. They closed the account on the 30th day (I didn't get out until around day 45 or so). They sent me a collections letter for 100.14, but said they would graciously cut it to 50.14 if I paid right away. I went to small claims court and filed a claim against them (thanks NY) and spent a little over 200 bucks out of pocket so the court of NY could tell them that their fee was excessive, and because of court costs imposed, they would not be getting anything.

BoA is representative of everything that is wrong in todays capital markets, investing, and consumer level checking... they are the reason I didn't/don't support bank bailouts, and would rather see, as Bernie Sanders has led the charge for, the biggest banks broken up. They aren't just too big to fail, they're too big to work.
 
2012-10-25 03:31:54 AM  
Subby's probably more dead on with his headline than he realizes.

It's paying out an 8.5 billion settlement, which it didn't even blink at, took 45 billion in bail-out assistance and earned $2.4 billion in net income during the first nine months of this year even after being hit with $1.6 billion in litigation expenses in its most recent quarter. Last month, the bank settled a $2.43 billion class action shareholder lawsuit related to its 2008 acquisition of Merrill Lynch.

The way it's throwing around billions, you'd think it had a bottomless supply of money.

Naturally, as much of the cost as possible will be passed onto its' customers in the form of fines, fees and rate increases. Any credit cards it sponsors for the middle and lower classes will find the interest rates soaring .... again.

The FED fixed interest rates at a maximum of 20% decades ago to defeat racketeering. The average citizen making a personal loan to someone may not charge more than 10% interest. Yet, since the 1980's, credit card interest rates have surpassed the 20% and now hover at around 29.9%, soon to tip over into 30%. I wonder how long before credit cards climb to around 50% and they start sending out a guy named 'Knuckles' to 'debt collect' by breaking your legs?

I switched to a local Credit Union, only to opt out within a year when it's fees matched that of my previous bank and they slapped a monthly charge on my accounts. (I didn't hang around to see if their OD fees would match my previous banks' level of $25.00 per check.)

I don't know if anyone noticed, but at the beginning of the crash caused by high gas prices in the late 70's, suddenly big banks, while bemoaning high prices, started greedily buying up every small bank they could find. Barnett Bank was the leader then.

It wasn't until the 80's that we discovered banks had heavily invested in Big Oil, which made it inadvisable for them to allow the barrel price to drop too much or they'd loose money. Which explains a whole lot why we're still being screwed over fuel.

The artificially created housing boom was just another opportunity for them to make major bucks, especially once they started selling off their mortgages to investment companies before the customers' signatures even dried.

In the end, we get screwed, their top CEO's walk off with multi-million dollar termination packages and millions more in perks and many get quietly hired back as 'consultants' at a pay level you can never hope to achieve.

That seem fair, doesn't it?
 
2012-10-25 04:23:05 AM  
Slap on the wrist.

This isn't justice, it's theater.
 
2012-10-25 04:36:26 AM  

Fubini: The problem that subby alludes to is that the guys at the top are just going to roll this cost over to the customers. This is how business works, and this is how it will always be (the government, by the people, is effectively levying a BofA tax on the people).


That kind of argument always bothered me. That's always been used to argue against penalties and taxation of business. But the truth of the matter is, in the case of a free market, the company can be made to eat the cost.
Just to give an example : in 2010, the French government announced an increase of the taxes on Internet access. All ISPs sent mails to their costumers saying that, unfortunately, they'll have to raise their rates.
All but one, who kept its own rate, and pointed out that, according to French law, this sudden increase is reason enough to break their current contracts without any penalty at all, and that they'll welcome everyone with open arms. This ISP even supplied all the legal documents required.
I remember it taking just a few days for the ISP to backpedal on their rate increase. And that day, the free market triumphed.
 
2012-10-25 04:37:49 AM  

Fubini: The problem that subby alludes to is that the guys at the top are just going to roll this cost over to the customers. This is how business works, and this is how it will always be (the government, by the people, is effectively levying a BofA tax on the people).

You could say that the free market takes care of this thing- if BofA needs to have higher fees they aren't as competitive as the other banks in the system. I say that isn't good enough. This kind of behavior needs to be controlled, and the best way to do that is to level actual criminal penalties against the people engaging in fraud and abuse within banks, Throw those farkers in jail.

You coddle kids who don't know what they're doing is wrong. You put down rabid dogs. There's a difference in how we are treating these banks and how they should be treated.


Your point is valid. I've had similar happen the few times I had to put in an insurance claim: they hike my rates up starting with the next payment cycle. Big business never loses. If our government was full of people with morals and values this would either not happen, or it would change for the better. Which means these practices will not change and the working class stiff will continue to get screwed.
 
2012-10-25 05:04:59 AM  
Fark BoA. My first sign was when they charged me a non Branch ATM charge for using a machine a quarter mile from my home branch. U-district. Seattle. Should have told me something. Had to FIRE THEM a couple years back when they switched my free checking to fee-based checking. eff them. I work for me. Not BoA's shareholders. Credit Union forever.
 
2012-10-25 05:06:31 AM  

IlGreven: GAT_00: Why would you have a BOA debit account?

Because they bought your bank out and you haven't taken the time to move your money to another bank or a credit union?

/Oh, wait, that's Chase.


In my case, it was both. And I fired both eventually and moved to a CU
 
2012-10-25 05:11:23 AM  

On The Wrong Throne: IlGreven: GAT_00: Why would you have a BOA debit account?

Because they bought your bank out and you haven't taken the time to move your money to another bank or a credit union?

/Oh, wait, that's Chase.

I actually like Chase because there's an ATM every two blocks in NYC and at every Duane Reade.

Every other bank charges $2+ to take money out plus $2 from Chase.

/No credit unions in NYC besides Montauk and they have one branch.


Google seems to disagree with you.

I had a Chase account for a long time, since back when it was a WaMu account. And I hated those evil bastards.
Convenient? Hell yes, almost literally across the street.
Now I'm with a Credit Union, and couldn't be happier. Direct deposit works great, they have a branch office right on the Paramount lot.
 
2012-10-25 05:24:42 AM  

propasaurus: On The Wrong Throne: IlGreven: GAT_00: Why would you have a BOA debit account?

Because they bought your bank out and you haven't taken the time to move your money to another bank or a credit union?

/Oh, wait, that's Chase.

I actually like Chase because there's an ATM every two blocks in NYC and at every Duane Reade.

Every other bank charges $2+ to take money out plus $2 from Chase.

/No credit unions in NYC besides Montauk and they have one branch.

Google seems to disagree with you.

I had a Chase account for a long time, since back when it was a WaMu account. And I hated those evil bastards.
Convenient? Hell yes, almost literally across the street.
Now I'm with a Credit Union, and couldn't be happier. Direct deposit works great, they have a branch office right on the Paramount lot.


Well there's MCU, but you have to be a public employee, etc. Montauk is the only one that lacks requirements that I know of.

/That I know of
 
2012-10-25 05:28:58 AM  

padraig: Fubini: in 2010, the French government announced an increase of the taxes on Internet access. All ISPs sent mails to their costumers saying that, unfortunately, they'll have to raise their rates.
All but one, who kept its own rate, and pointed out that, according to French law, this sudden increase is reason enough to break their current contracts without any penalty at all, and that they'll welcome everyone with open arms. This ISP even supplied all the legal documents required.
I remember it taking just a few days for the ISP to backpedal on their rate increase. And that day, the free market triumphed.


I can't tell you how many free market puritans I've talked to who rely on a single instance of their ideology working to justify ignoring the massive failure of the free market system as a whole. Fubini is totally right on this one. These banks will socialize their cost (passing fees along to customers) and privatize their profits (giving obscene bonuses to execs and cutting dividends for their shareholders i.e. investor groups and hedgefunds). It is, and I can't believe I'm about to use this word, MORALLY wrong. Unless they witness their peers going to jail in droves they will continue fleecing anyone not in their little club. See ALL OF HISTORY for more examples of this.
 
2012-10-25 05:31:48 AM  
Ambivalence: Does anyone still USE Back of America? If so, why?

1) They never charged me any shady fees.

2) Their ATMs are basically everywhere.

// BofA is just one of four banks I have accounts with. My philosophy is that all banks suck in one way or another, so I use only the best features of each bank. And for BofA, that's their ATM network (I would never get a loan or investment account with them).
 
2012-10-25 05:50:40 AM  
I was with BoA after they bought out Seafirst Bank. Stuck with the even after they discontinued my legacy free checking. But then I heard about Wamu free checking. So I moved my money there since BoA started charging me a fee for checking (I was no longer employed, donchaknow)

Long story short, I moved my money out of Chase/Wamu when the bigger bank decided I was no longer a good risk. So now I earn real money, instead of .01% annually.
 
2012-10-25 05:58:22 AM  
not all credit unions are equal, some are VERY bad, while some are very good.
too bad the only cu in my area is one of the worse ever started.
bad people running the financial institutions should be drawn and quartered, and their property redistributed...
 
2012-10-25 05:58:52 AM  
"...This lawsuit should send another clear message that reckless lending practices will not be tolerated."

Criminal prosecutions would send a clearer message.
 
2012-10-25 06:31:42 AM  

GAT_00: Why would you have a BOA debit account?


This.
 
2012-10-25 06:34:50 AM  

Makh: cameroncrazy1984: Ambivalence: Does anyone still USE Back of America? If so, why?

I think your name is a fairly apt answer to this question.

It's kinda true. I didn't want to drive 5 miles further for any other bank. Now a credit union opened up closer. Seriously considering it.


I make a good chunk of change off of dividends from my credit union.

We have 2 bank accounts: my wages go into the credit union and it's the account for which all of our bills are paid. The hubby's goes into Chase and that's spending money. So, the majority of money sits in Chase but I earn far less for it. We're closing it as soon as we close on our refinanced home.
 
2012-10-25 06:48:17 AM  

Fubini: The problem that subby alludes to is that the guys at the top are just going to roll this cost over to the customers. This is how business works, and this is how it will always be (the government, by the people, is effectively levying a BofA tax on the people).


Um no. Profits vary between industries and they also vary between companies in the same industry.

BofA is already charging whatever they think they can charge in terms of fees. If they thought they could make more money by raising prices, then they would, gaining more profit.

If McDonalds thought they could charge $15 for a Big Mac and still keep their customers, of course they would do so.
 
2012-10-25 06:51:09 AM  

Ambivalence: Does anyone still USE Back of America? If so, why?


I live overseas and BofA is about the only American bank that has any sort of partnership with a local bank here, so it's the only way to access a bank account in the United States that doesn't involve a nightmare of wire transfers and paperwork.

That's right, Bank of America is my best option.

Kill me.
 
2012-10-25 06:52:58 AM  

GAT_00: Why would you have a BOA debit account?


Well in CA if your want EDD Benefits its BofA or the highway. (You can opt-out for paper checks, but its a hassle and a half.)

/Privatization FTL
 
2012-10-25 07:14:12 AM  
That's ATM machine subby.
 
2012-10-25 07:15:31 AM  
Charges to be dropped shortly after the beginning of November.
 
2012-10-25 07:45:59 AM  
The same Federal Government basically begged BofA to buy Countrywide during the financial crisis to avoid a further meltdown of the economy..... Wonder if BofA has buyer's remorse. Link
 
2012-10-25 07:51:28 AM  

MurphyMurphy: Slap on the wrist.

This isn't justice, it's theater.


You misspelled "extortion and political grandstanding and opportunism".
 
2012-10-25 07:54:44 AM  

geek_mars: "...This lawsuit should send another clear message that reckless lending practices will not be tolerated."

Criminal prosecutions would send a clearer message.


Of course, criminal convictions are impossible when no crimes have been convicted. Conversely, you can sue big firms for some alleged pre-acqusition misdeeds of a subsidiary bought during the financial crisis, and know you have a chance of extorting a big settlement. Makes you look good in the papers.
 
2012-10-25 08:04:38 AM  

charliebear: The same Federal Government basically begged BofA to buy Countrywide during the financial crisis to avoid a further meltdown of the economy..... Wonder if BofA has buyer's remorse. Link


Tit for tat is not the way government regulation is supposed to work. BofA may have committed fraud and needs to be prosecuted if the allegation are true. What they did for whom during the "bailout" is irrelevant.
 
2012-10-25 08:16:41 AM  
I just refinanced my old BoA mortgage and moved it somewhere else. I expect BoA to try to foreclose on my house any day now.
 
2012-10-25 08:48:36 AM  

washburn777: padraig: Fubini: in 2010, the French government announced an increase of the taxes on Internet access. All ISPs sent mails to their costumers saying that, unfortunately, they'll have to raise their rates.
All but one, who kept its own rate, and pointed out that, according to French law, this sudden increase is reason enough to break their current contracts without any penalty at all, and that they'll welcome everyone with open arms. This ISP even supplied all the legal documents required.
I remember it taking just a few days for the ISP to backpedal on their rate increase. And that day, the free market triumphed.

I can't tell you how many free market puritans I've talked to who rely on a single instance of their ideology working to justify ignoring the massive failure of the free market system as a whole. Fubini is totally right on this one. These banks will socialize their cost (passing fees along to customers) and privatize their profits (giving obscene bonuses to execs and cutting dividends for their shareholders i.e. investor groups and hedgefunds). It is, and I can't believe I'm about to use this word, MORALLY wrong. Unless they witness their peers going to jail in droves they will continue fleecing anyone not in their little club. See ALL OF HISTORY for more examples of this.


If BOA could raise fees without losing customers, why do you think they'd wait until the federal government sues them?
 
2012-10-25 09:05:09 AM  

naughtyrev: What's the S stand for, subby?


It stands for BBBQ.

The extra B is for BYOBB.
 
2012-10-25 09:22:07 AM  
If they end up raising any fees, it's pretty clear that they only have one target demographic. And that's the "gullible moron" segment of the market.

It's banking, not a cable TV provider. If your town has more than 5000 people in it, you have more than one option. Move your money to a credit union, where you see the profits instead of giving them to a bunch of shareholders who are trying to squeeze you dry. You probably aren't sticking with your bank because they have better service or are more convenient. You're sticking with them because you're afraid of major change.

And if you're still using so much cash that the location of a free ATM is critical to the flow of your day, you either need to learn time management, pre-planning, or how to use a debit card.

/switched to USAA a few years ago. Couldn't recommend a better organization if you're eligible.
 
2012-10-25 09:34:37 AM  

clkeagle: switched to USAA a few years ago. Couldn't recommend a better organization if you're eligible.

 
2012-10-25 09:42:59 AM  
Boy, that lawsuit is really going to teach BoA a lession. Unfortunately, BoA just made $1.2 billion in the time it took me to type this post. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad the feds are pushing this lawsuit, it just won't make a damn bit of difference.
/The rich are never truly penalized in this country
//Sinking an entire economy is just the cost of (fraudulent) business in this country
 
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