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(Huffington Post)   New Pennsylvania bill includes provision requiring women to prove they were raped. Want to guess which party inserted the provision?   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 474
    More: Sick, Pennsylvania, Equal Pay Act, welfare benefits, Paycheck Fairness Act, Priebus tried, shiny objects, Priebus, Violence Against Women Act  
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8716 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Oct 2012 at 1:53 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-25 01:51:20 PM  

machoprogrammer: Genevieve Marie: The Jami Turman Fan Club: I do think that people having more kids to get more government money is a serious issue. So is people having kids they know they can't afford. Generational poverty is a nasty thing.

Unfortunately, I can't think of any solution that's not worse than the problem. Any ideas?

Make sure that reproductive health care and therefore birth control is available cheap or free to any woman who needs it and stop restricting abortion rights?

The idea of having more kids to get more money is laughable. I know it's always part of the conversation on welfare, but seriously- the extra benefits don't even begin to cover the cost of taking care of another child for 18 years.

You act like those people take that into consideration. They just see "Ohh, $180 more!"


I know I asked this of Brostorm before, but do strangers ever punch you in the face, for seemingly no reason? I'm just curious.
 
2012-10-25 02:27:46 PM  

Brostorm: You act like its the parents that pay for those 18 years


Probably because that's exactly what happens

TANF benefit levels for a family of three, as of July 2010, are less than half of the Federal Poverty Level (FPL) in all states and below 30 percent of the FPL in over half of states


In 2010, HHS guidelines for FPL was $22,050 for a family of 4. For a family of 8 it was $37,010 which is only about 133% of the median wage. In fact, you had to have 6 kids before you crossed the threshold for median income in 2010.

Please, do explain what your argument here is. Because I'm having a hard time imagining that too many people think it's easier to raise 4 or 5 kids than just get a job.
 
2012-10-25 02:44:39 PM  
Is there a name for the mental illness that afflicts Texas politicians?
 
2012-10-25 02:45:08 PM  

CPennypacker: machoprogrammer: Genevieve Marie: The Jami Turman Fan Club: I do think that people having more kids to get more government money is a serious issue. So is people having kids they know they can't afford. Generational poverty is a nasty thing.

Unfortunately, I can't think of any solution that's not worse than the problem. Any ideas?

Make sure that reproductive health care and therefore birth control is available cheap or free to any woman who needs it and stop restricting abortion rights?

The idea of having more kids to get more money is laughable. I know it's always part of the conversation on welfare, but seriously- the extra benefits don't even begin to cover the cost of taking care of another child for 18 years.

You act like those people take that into consideration. They just see "Ohh, $180 more!"

I know I asked this of Brostorm before, but do strangers ever punch you in the face, for seemingly no reason? I'm just curious.


Wow, a new type of Internet Tough Guy. You are so clever. Do you write your own material?

But you really think I am kidding? Your average person cannot even have a credit card without going deep into debt.
 
2012-10-25 02:46:25 PM  

machoprogrammer: CPennypacker: machoprogrammer: Genevieve Marie: The Jami Turman Fan Club: I do think that people having more kids to get more government money is a serious issue. So is people having kids they know they can't afford. Generational poverty is a nasty thing.

Unfortunately, I can't think of any solution that's not worse than the problem. Any ideas?

Make sure that reproductive health care and therefore birth control is available cheap or free to any woman who needs it and stop restricting abortion rights?

The idea of having more kids to get more money is laughable. I know it's always part of the conversation on welfare, but seriously- the extra benefits don't even begin to cover the cost of taking care of another child for 18 years.

You act like those people take that into consideration. They just see "Ohh, $180 more!"

I know I asked this of Brostorm before, but do strangers ever punch you in the face, for seemingly no reason? I'm just curious.

Wow, a new type of Internet Tough Guy. You are so clever. Do you write your own material?

But you really think I am kidding? Your average person cannot even have a credit card without going deep into debt.


Which is why condoms will work. Obviously.
 
2012-10-25 03:00:57 PM  

CPennypacker: Which is why condoms will work. Obviously.


HA
 
2012-10-25 03:04:16 PM  

Siochain: Siochain: Mock26: I support this bill. For one, the woman does not have to prove she was raped. She just has to prove that she reported it (as in showing a copy of the Police Report, which she will automatically receive a copy of when she reports it). Also, the intent is to prevent a woman from defrauding the government. As it is now a mother can only receive funds for up to and including X number of kids. She is not eligible for additional benefits for kid number X + 1, unless the child was conceived because the woman was raped. Up to now there was no way to vet whether or not this was true. Now all a woman has to do is provide a copy of the police report.

Well, when my DAD raped me, I was a little scared to file a report, so fark you. Don't pretend that this doesn't happen. Want me to prove to you that it happened? Fark you.

Damn it, I didn't mean to say "prove," but you get the gist. To make it clearer, you expect my 13 year old self to "show" that I filed a police report against the person who had been abusing me, gee, it's just that easy, isn't it?

*Disclosure: I never got pregnant, so I guess I was "lucky" that I didn't have to go through this process.


You obviously did not read the article nor my post.

Once again, in the state if you are on public assistance you only get money for a certain number of children. I forget the real number, but I will say 3 for the sake of the argument. You can get additional money for more children if those children were the result of rape. As it is now anyone can say that they were raped to get assistance and no proof is required. All the state is asking for is proof that the woman reported being raped.

Try reading the full article the next time instead of subby's specious headline.
 
2012-10-25 03:06:19 PM  

Mock26: Siochain: Siochain: Mock26: I support this bill. For one, the woman does not have to prove she was raped. She just has to prove that she reported it (as in showing a copy of the Police Report, which she will automatically receive a copy of when she reports it). Also, the intent is to prevent a woman from defrauding the government. As it is now a mother can only receive funds for up to and including X number of kids. She is not eligible for additional benefits for kid number X + 1, unless the child was conceived because the woman was raped. Up to now there was no way to vet whether or not this was true. Now all a woman has to do is provide a copy of the police report.

Well, when my DAD raped me, I was a little scared to file a report, so fark you. Don't pretend that this doesn't happen. Want me to prove to you that it happened? Fark you.

Damn it, I didn't mean to say "prove," but you get the gist. To make it clearer, you expect my 13 year old self to "show" that I filed a police report against the person who had been abusing me, gee, it's just that easy, isn't it?

*Disclosure: I never got pregnant, so I guess I was "lucky" that I didn't have to go through this process.

You obviously did not read the article nor my post.

Once again, in the state if you are on public assistance you only get money for a certain number of children. I forget the real number, but I will say 3 for the sake of the argument. You can get additional money for more children if those children were the result of rape. As it is now anyone can say that they were raped to get assistance and no proof is required. All the state is asking for is proof that the woman reported being raped.

Try reading the full article the next time instead of subby's specious headline.


And all we're saying is the limit shouldn't be there in the first place.
 
2012-10-25 03:06:47 PM  

Siochain: Damn it, I didn't mean to say "prove," but you get the gist. To make it clearer, you expect my 13 year old self to "show" that I filed a police report against the person who had been abusing me, gee, it's just that easy, isn't it?


If you were trying to claim benefits for your "4th" child and could only get those benefits if the child was the result of rape, then Hell Farking Yeah, I expect you to "show" that you filed a police report against the person who raped you. Of course, one has to wonder why (and how) a 13 year old girl has 4 kids.
 
2012-10-25 03:19:26 PM  
ok at this point in time i really wish some bat shiat insane scientist made somethin we could shove up a male human ass to get em prego.


these friken things will be non existant that day happens.
 
2012-10-25 03:27:14 PM  

SilentStrider: Weaver95: And people wondered why I switched to Democrat....

keep this up and i'm going to have to actually run for office.

Dibs on being your chief of staff.


I'd move back to PA to help with his campaign. Or at least... I'd strongly consider it.
 
2012-10-25 03:29:37 PM  

dready zim: dericwater: dramboxf: Just to be specific, and you can quote me:

Anti-abortion legislation is always, and without fail, anti-f**king legislation.

Without fail.

Anti-f**king is gender neutral. Or rather, would or should affect either gender. The anti-abortion platform has been, and will always be, the anti-women-enjoying-sex-without-protection-for-the-sake-of-sex platform.

FTFY



Well, since they're all against contraception, I think the "without protection" is unnecessary.
 
2012-10-25 03:32:23 PM  

orbister: Genevieve Marie: It always amazes me that the best comparison many men can come up with for rape is property crime. It's... a very dehumanizing way to discuss the subject.

Just as dehumanising as those who think it's only the woman's body that matters.


Guess what? It is all that matters and it's none of your goddamned fetal-worshipping business.

What matters to you? Let me hear you say while you are pro-life, you want to provide accessible and affordable birth control in order to prevent abortions as possible. Let me see you find a humane way to deal with a humane condition: People have a biological drive to and enjoy farking.

But no, you and your ilk want to punish the dirty, dirty whores. So kindly fark off.
 
2012-10-25 03:33:51 PM  

SandMann: Big deal.

If someone is claiming a government handout they should have to prove they qualify. It doesn't matter what it is. If not, the system will be abused.


The amount that anyone can get from abusing the system for TANF type handouts is so minuscule as to be irrelevant. Compare this to the unrestricted financial bailouts and handouts we give to oil companies, banks and other multi-nationals. Shouldn't those have to prove they qualify, as in that they need the handout?
 
2012-10-25 03:38:29 PM  

Brostorm: CPennypacker: Brostorm: CPennypacker: Brostorm: You can get free condoms ALL OVER THE PLACE. If you are poor you can get free birth control through medicaid or planned parenthood or any of the other thousands of sources. It is a complete and ridiculous lie that birth control is rare or expensive . Hell college GIVE them away too.

I don't understand, there is an EASY way to not have to pay less for poor kids and still pay the same for each kid and that is for there to be LESS kids. Don't you think something like a free IUD would result in less pregnancies than free rubbers? Then they could hump all they want all day long and all you paid for was a little copper T.

Im for free tubal ligation and free IUD. It will cost much less in the long run. The claim that birth control is rare or expensive is still full of crap.

Cost over child bearing years:

METHOD UNINSURED INSURED WHAT'S INCLUDED
IUDs $5,751 $2,875 Doctor's visit, device, insertion, and follow-up care, every 7.5 years
Implanon $16,931 $7,696 Doctor's visit, device, insertion, and removal, every three years
Injections $25,329 $8,372 Doctor's visit, follow-up care, and four injections, every year
Patch $51,946 $9,230 Doctor's visit and an annual supply of patches, every year
Vaginal ring $51,946 $9,230 Doctor's visit and an annual supply of rings, every year
Sterilization $6,000 $1,500 Doctor's visits, surgery, and follow-up care; one time cost

But WHARRRRRRRRRGARBLE BIRTH CONTROL CHEAP TAKE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY STUPID POORS!
Am I right?

condoms=free
cost of them and their childrens lifetime of dependency on the government? MILLIONS.


Condoms are cheap, but not free (except if one goes to PP to grab a handful). But that requires the man to cooperate and put one on. If the guy wants to go bareback, and if the woman doesn't comply, that's legally rape.
 
2012-10-25 03:41:49 PM  

Mock26: Siochain: Damn it, I didn't mean to say "prove," but you get the gist. To make it clearer, you expect my 13 year old self to "show" that I filed a police report against the person who had been abusing me, gee, it's just that easy, isn't it?

If you were trying to claim benefits for your "4th" child and could only get those benefits if the child was the result of rape, then Hell Farking Yeah, I expect you to "show" that you filed a police report against the person who raped you. Of course, one has to wonder why (and how) a 13 year old girl has 4 kids.


So now we're punishing women AND children for the sins of Rapists.

Good to know.
 
2012-10-25 04:13:17 PM  
In a family or in a society, there are always people that need help. There are always people who need way more help than others for way longer. The answer is to keep helping them, not dropping them with no means to better themselves. Because, let's face it, paying a ridiculously small percentage of people who are chronic fark ups to stay home and fark up quietly is better for society.

Self-determination does play a factor, of course, which is why most people are off welfare in a very short time. Some people never are. I'm ok with both scenarios, it's not making them a dependent victim, it is acknowledging that some people can never do better.
 
2012-10-25 04:21:17 PM  
So there's a financial incentive for women to report their child as the product of rape, and lawmakers are seeking to require women who do so at the very least report a rape? Those bastards!
 
2012-10-25 04:22:06 PM  

gadian: Because, let's face it, paying a ridiculously small percentage of people who are chronic fark ups to stay home and fark up quietly is better for society.


Republicans feel otherwise. The republican "philosophy" on welfare is that it's okay to hurt any number of people with legitimate needs in the name of harming even just one cheater. It's a byproduct of the rigid and uncompassionate thinking that makes them conservative to begin with.

It's not even a matter of pragmatism where we might say "well, yes, unfortunately some small number may be harmed unduly, but the cost is acceptable because the reward is high" because that doesn't apply here. It's just a simple matter of a nearly complete lack of empathy for other human beings and a raging desire to hire people they believe to be inferior.

Or, to make it shorter: their philosophy is to be assholes to other people for no real reason.
 
2012-10-25 04:43:25 PM  

BeesNuts: Mock26: Siochain: Damn it, I didn't mean to say "prove," but you get the gist. To make it clearer, you expect my 13 year old self to "show" that I filed a police report against the person who had been abusing me, gee, it's just that easy, isn't it?

If you were trying to claim benefits for your "4th" child and could only get those benefits if the child was the result of rape, then Hell Farking Yeah, I expect you to "show" that you filed a police report against the person who raped you. Of course, one has to wonder why (and how) a 13 year old girl has 4 kids.

So now we're punishing women AND children for the sins of Rapists.

Good to know.


Nope. Now we are punishing those who would lie about being raped to get benefits that they are not qualified to get.
 
2012-10-25 04:44:43 PM  
Yeah, go ahead, keep insisting that there's no "War On Women", GOP. Please.
 
2012-10-25 05:42:49 PM  

Tarkus: Drafted by Pennsylvania lawmakers - State Reps. RoseMarie Swanger (R), Tom Caltagirone (D), Mark Gillen (R), Keith Gillespie (R), Adam Harris (R), and Mike Tobash (R).


Oh well then. Both sides truly are bad.
 
2012-10-25 07:59:48 PM  
I wish I could remember who said it, so I could attribute it properly, but a while back someone said something to the effect that Democrats live their lives in fear that something bad is happening to someone who doesn't deserve it whereas Republicans live their lives in fear that something good is happening to someone who doesn't deserve it.

I don't much like generalizations, but damn if a f*ck ton of politics threads in the past few months done their damnedest to try and confirm it as nearly absolute.
 
2012-10-26 12:59:47 AM  

Kome: I wish I could remember who said it, so I could attribute it properly, but a while back someone said something to the effect that Democrats live their lives in fear that something bad is happening to someone who doesn't deserve it whereas Republicans live their lives in fear that something good is happening to someone who doesn't deserve it.


Democrats hate it when people are innocently hurt while Republicans hate it when people are innocently rewarded.

I like that.

I think the only barometer of its veracity is the lottery.
 
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