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(Telegram)   U.S. will regain position as world's top oil producer. This is a big fracking deal   (telegram.com) divider line 155
    More: Interesting, oil producers, United States, Royal Dutch Shell plc, Water pumping, IHS  
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10097 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Oct 2012 at 11:28 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-24 09:30:47 AM
It's weird but I thought the Ohio Shale find was the biggest find of all? Was that just hype?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-10-24 09:33:24 AM
So that's how Obama made gas so expensive!
 
2012-10-24 09:35:10 AM
Didn't read the article. I guess this is good and bad. Slack regulations on things like Hydraulic Fracturing is bad. But it could create jobs, so that's good. But I doubt it'll lower energy prices, since there's no guarantee that a significant amount of this oil will be sold to the U.S., unless there's some regulation I'm missing.
 
2012-10-24 09:47:56 AM
Farkin' A, Bubba.
 
2012-10-24 09:51:24 AM
But I was told that Obama personally shut down the US oil industry with his job killing socialism.
 
2012-10-24 10:02:31 AM
What are they going to name the lake when the bedrock is so fractured in Ohio and Pa. that the region becomes a giant sinkhole? If the footings to your house were broken like that it would be condemned.
 
2012-10-24 10:09:22 AM
Is that why MItt Romney said oil production is lower than it was 4 years ago?
 
2012-10-24 10:11:57 AM

oldernell: What are they going to name the lake when the bedrock is so fractured in Ohio and Pa. that the region becomes a giant sinkhole? If the footings to your house were broken like that it would be condemned.


The Ha-Ha Hole has a nice ring to it.
 
2012-10-24 11:30:57 AM

Aarontology: But I was told that Obama personally shut down the US oil industry with his job killing socialism.


Top men have told me that the way to energy independence is to pipe Canadian oil to Texas to ship to China.

Yes, this is what Republicans actually believe.
 
2012-10-24 11:31:27 AM
FTA: helping to make North America 'the new Middle East.'

Oh shiat!
 
2012-10-24 11:31:35 AM
Woot! I can run my gas stove for free. Just need to plumb it up to my kitchen faucet.
 
2012-10-24 11:31:45 AM
Damn you Obama for driving oil prices up by creating more supply!
 
2012-10-24 11:32:51 AM
to an average of 10.9 million barrels per day

Damn, that is quite a bit of oil, along with the arab spring this makes the Iraq war even more pointless.
 
2012-10-24 11:33:08 AM

GAT_00: Is that why MItt Romney said oil production is lower than it was 4 years ago?


Mitt Romney says a lot of things.
 
2012-10-24 11:33:08 AM
B-b-b-b-but, OBAMA!!!
 
2012-10-24 11:33:54 AM

meat0918: GAT_00: Is that why MItt Romney said oil production is lower than it was 4 years ago?

Mitt Romney says a lot of things.


If you ever disagree with him, just wait 15 minutes

/Just like the weather in HI
//That really doesn't have anything to do with this though...
 
2012-10-24 11:34:05 AM

oldernell: What are they going to name the lake when the bedrock is so fractured in Ohio and Pa. that the region becomes a giant sinkhole? If the footings to your house were broken like that it would be condemned.


Lake Nom Nom Nom
 
2012-10-24 11:34:17 AM
....say the few who will get richer from fracking, unless the many freak out about the whole Permanently Polluted Drinking and Irrigation Water thing.
 
2012-10-24 11:34:44 AM
Republican voter: Fungible commodity markets, how do they work?
 
2012-10-24 11:34:48 AM

GAT_00: Is that why MItt Romney said oil production is lower than it was 4 years ago?


Romney said that because he's a lying "empty suit" representing a party that cares more about being in power than telling the truth or doing what's best for this country.
 
2012-10-24 11:35:39 AM
AWESOME!!

Now i don't need to worry about stupid farking alternative energy anymore!! Now we all can eat corn at a reasonable price again, cos we won't need it for biofuel!!!
 
2012-10-24 11:35:56 AM

oldernell: What are they going to name the lake when the bedrock is so fractured in Ohio and Pa. that the region becomes a giant sinkhole? If the footings to your house were broken like that it would be condemned.


It'll all be worth it if I can afford to gas up my Hummer again... That thing gathers more dust than my treadmill
 
2012-10-24 11:37:51 AM
Prices have to stay high or it won't be economically sensible to harvest shale gas/oil.
 
2012-10-24 11:38:37 AM

Aarontology: But I was told that Obama personally shut down the US oil industry with his job killing socialism.


He did. But the brave job creators courageously chose to continue producing oil, even in the face of massive profits.

They succeeded in spite of Obama, not because of him.
 
2012-10-24 11:40:00 AM

HMS_Blinkin: Aarontology: But I was told that Obama personally shut down the US oil industry with his job killing socialism.

He did. But the brave job creators courageously chose to continue producing oil, even in the face of massive profits.

They succeeded in spite of Obama, not because of him.


I like you.. nohomo
 
2012-10-24 11:40:15 AM
"most of these rigs are on private property. They are drilling into places like the Bakken formation, which lies under parts of North Dakota and Montana.

"Had this been government land, we would likely still be awaiting drilling permits or fighting lawsuits from NGOs or outright drilling bans enacted from Congress," Mulva says.


HAHAHAH but Obama is the reason right? ALL HAIL KING OBAMA!!
 
2012-10-24 11:41:00 AM
i.qkme.me
 
2012-10-24 11:41:12 AM
And yet somehow I bet they will produce a lot of oil and refine it then ship it to China were they can use it to make products to coat with lead and use said oil again to ship it back to the US.

Then we have gone full circle and not gained a thing.

In a few years this will be our new flag.
www.cia.gov
 
2012-10-24 11:41:58 AM
Woooo hoooooo now we can all get brand spanking new H4's!!!
 
2012-10-24 11:44:12 AM
Amen brother, let's drill some more and keep putting more people to work so we can flip off those we have imported from for so long.
 
2012-10-24 11:44:14 AM

GAT_00: Is that why MItt Romney said oil production is lower than it was 4 years ago?


Not sticken up for or being against Romney.
But its probably going to be 10+yrs down the road for any significant realization on oil production impact.
 
2012-10-24 11:44:47 AM

GAT_00: Is that why MItt Romney said oil production is lower than it was 4 years ago?


someone will be along shorty to "clarify" his position
 
2012-10-24 11:45:42 AM

SweetSaws: FTA: helping to make North America 'the new Middle East.'

Oh shiat!


Well the Republicans sure want to enact Taliban-like social restrictions on us; maybe that's where they got the idea since we're producing so much oil, after all.
 
2012-10-24 11:46:20 AM
Listen my children and you will hear
The lies they want you to hear
Energy Independance is the rally cry
But war over oil is why you die

/simply amazing, both sides still shout the derp when the truth is printed right in front of you

"In War, there are no unwounded soldiers"
 
2012-10-24 11:46:46 AM

lordjupiter: GAT_00: Is that why MItt Romney said oil production is lower than it was 4 years ago?

Romney said that because he's a lying "empty suit" representing a party that cares more about being in power than telling the truth or doing what's best for this country.


You didn't define any difference from either party there, skippy...they are all lying, empty suits whose sole purpose is to line their pockets while in office.
 
2012-10-24 11:47:12 AM
Peak Oil!

/a lie
 
2012-10-24 11:47:17 AM
Meanwhile, oil prices are tanking this week.

How long before Republicans cry the oil companies are bringing down gas prices in order to get Obama reelected?
 
2012-10-24 11:47:28 AM
Those damn fungible molecules.
 
2012-10-24 11:47:31 AM

SweetSaws: FTA: helping to make North America 'the new Middle East.'

Oh shiat!


Well we already have the televangelist ayatollahs so we aren't that far behind

Rape babies gawdsplan and all
 
2012-10-24 11:47:37 AM

GAT_00: Is that why MItt Romney said oil production is lower than it was 4 years ago?


On government land, yes. That was what he correctly stated.

On private land where homeowners and drillers are drinking the milkshake up and the Feds can't do anything about, no.
 
2012-10-24 11:47:54 AM
Oil is fungible!

/a lie
 
2012-10-24 11:48:05 AM
WE'RE GOING TO BOMB THE SHIAT OUT OF OURSELVES!!!!
/wait....wut?
 
2012-10-24 11:48:53 AM
Drill, Baby, Drill!

/a lie
 
2012-10-24 11:49:14 AM

Joe Blowme: "most of these rigs are on private property. They are drilling into places like the Bakken formation, which lies under parts of North Dakota and Montana.

"Had this been government land, we would likely still be awaiting drilling permits or fighting lawsuits from NGOs or outright drilling bans enacted from Congress," Mulva says.


HAHAHAH but Obama is the reason right? ALL HAIL KING OBAMA!!


Pardon me if I don't think we should throw up drilling rigs all over public lands set aside specifically for the purpose of protection and the enjoyment of future generations all so we can pad the pockets of oil execs while gas prices still head up.

And the feds STILL regulate those drilling sites.
 
2012-10-24 11:49:58 AM
USA is forced to buy oil from our enimies!

/a lie
 
2012-10-24 11:51:03 AM

Ashrams: And yet somehow I bet they will produce a lot of oil and refine it then ship it to China were they can use it to make products to coat with lead and use said oil again to ship it back to the US.

Then we have gone full circle and not gained a thing.

In a few years this will be our new flag.
[www.cia.gov image 453x304]


You mean Alberta's new flag. Our prime minister is set to sell one of our largest oil fields to China for $15B CDN. He's an idiot.
 
2012-10-24 11:51:49 AM

chi_tino: GAT_00: Is that why MItt Romney said oil production is lower than it was 4 years ago?

On government land, yes. That was what he correctly stated.

On private land where homeowners and drillers are drinking the milkshake up and the Feds can't do anything about, no.



Nuh-uh...

www.campnofriends.com
 
2012-10-24 11:52:16 AM
Yay! Let's use up all of our domestic oil resources quicker!
 
2012-10-24 11:52:19 AM
This just in!

Big Oil throws away PROFIT to support sitting Prez. Gas price drops $1.00/gal until the election.

/sweet
 
2012-10-24 11:53:17 AM
I was assured that Obama has permanently destroyed the oil and coal industries.
 
2012-10-24 11:53:52 AM
I am not inherently against fracking, but I recognize that this is a practice that conveys certain risks. There are documented cases of natural gas seepage into drinking water. There are a lot of open questions about disposing of used fracking fluids, etc.

The result is that I'm in a position where I say this: "Fracking is interesting and potentially useful, but what steps can we take to mitigate the negative externalities?" As a society, we have organized and empowered a specific collection of agencies to manage negative externalities (and provide positive ones): governments.

In a loose sense, governments achieve this goal by making rules, be they laws or regulations, and then enforcing those rules in a way that makes compliance preferable to non-compliance.

What I'm trying to say is that we've got a decent case to raise some concerns and demand tight regulation of fracking companies.
 
2012-10-24 11:54:32 AM
Citibank forecasts U.S. production could reach 13 million to 15 million barrels per day by 2020, helping to make North America "the new Middle East."

Sweet, the troops will be home sooner than expected
 
2012-10-24 11:55:16 AM
yeah but peak oil
 
2012-10-24 11:55:21 AM

snocone: USA is forced to buy oil from our enimies!

/a lie


Not a lie, just not fully accurate though. The US is forced to by oil from others. Sometimes this involved buying oil from our enemies. IT hasn't ALWAYS involved buying from our enemies, but sometimes, yes, yes it has.

It says right in the article we consume 18+million barrels of oil per day. We are only producing 10+million.
We are buying about half just by numbers alone from somewhere other than us.

/oil market is global
//the idea that US oil stays in the US is absurdly naive.
 
2012-10-24 11:56:02 AM
blah blah blah Obama
blah blah blah Romney

Fark threads are looking pretty much the same regardless of topic these days.
 
2012-10-24 11:56:09 AM

meat0918: And the feds STILL regulate those drilling sites.


yeah, pretty low information voter right there, he seriously thinks if you are on private land you can do whatever you want?
 
2012-10-24 11:57:10 AM

indarwinsshadow: Ashrams: And yet somehow I bet they will produce a lot of oil and refine it then ship it to China were they can use it to make products to coat with lead and use said oil again to ship it back to the US.

Then we have gone full circle and not gained a thing.

In a few years this will be our new flag.
[www.cia.gov image 453x304]

You mean Alberta's new flag. Our prime minister is set to sell one of our largest oil fields to China for $15B CDN. He's an idiot.


This dumbass does realize that the Chinese give zero shiats about polluting their own country right? They'll have no qualms farking your environment over to save 2 cents per thousand gallons in production costs.
 
2012-10-24 11:57:32 AM
Shhhh!!!! This news will just piss off the republicans, and they'll start complaining that these facts are liberal media conspiracies to make the Right look stupid and make baby Jesus cry.
 
2012-10-24 11:58:05 AM

t3knomanser: There are a lot of open questions about disposing of used fracking fluids, etc.


I don't think it is being used widely yet but I believe haliburton has developed a fracking material totally made from food grade liquids.
 
2012-10-24 11:59:52 AM
This is happening in spite of Obama.

I am amazed by all these "positive" news articles and studies that seem to come out just before the election. It's like someone is intentionally releasing biased studies at a specific time to trick the American people in believing that a certain president's record is better than what it really is.
 
2012-10-24 12:03:25 PM

evoke: This is happening in spite of Obama.

I am amazed by all these "positive" news articles and studies that seem to come out just before the election. It's like someone is intentionally releasing biased studies at a specific time to trick the American people in believing that a certain president's record is better than what it really is.


Because everything is a conspiracy designed to make you cry.
 
2012-10-24 12:03:45 PM

littleray42: blah blah blah Obama
blah blah blah Romney

Fark threads are looking pretty much the same regardless of topic these days.


I fracking hate that a sports headline of the week was a halfassed knock on Romney. Realistically anyone who wants to run for leader of the free world probably has to start 4 yrs before the next election.
 
2012-10-24 12:04:24 PM

GAT_00: Is that why MItt Romney said oil production is lower than it was 4 years ago?


Do you really not understand that Obama is not the line who pushed for oil on private and state lands? Obama is not responsible for all that is good. Bad enough liberals are trying to give him credit for the 09/10 federal permit increases, ignoring that those permits were started and many approved under bush as it is a multi year permit. It just makes you look ignorantly partisan trying to give Obama credit for state and private land increases.
 
2012-10-24 12:04:27 PM
All we need now is a bunch of our young zealots to hijack airliners and fly them into Mecca.
 
GBB [TotalFark]
2012-10-24 12:04:41 PM

evoke: This is happening in spite of Obama.

I am amazed by all these "positive" news articles and studies that seem to come out just before the election. It's like someone is intentionally releasing biased studies at a specific time to trick the American people in believing that a certain president's record is better than what it really is.


...or worse. These reports that come out work both ways.
Americans are easily fooled. To think that the POTUS has any influence over gas prices is ridiculous, yet, we see it almost every day.
 
2012-10-24 12:04:57 PM

Joe Blowme: "most of these rigs are on private property. They are drilling into places like the Bakken formation, which lies under parts of North Dakota and Montana.

"Had this been government land, we would likely still be awaiting drilling permits or fighting lawsuits from NGOs or outright drilling bans enacted from Congress," Mulva says.


HAHAHAH but Obama is the reason right? ALL HAIL KING OBAMA!!


I think the more important point is that Obama *isn't* the industry-crushing tyrant Mitt is trying to make him out to be.
 
2012-10-24 12:04:59 PM

evoke: This is happening in spite of Obama.

I am amazed by all these "positive" news articles and studies that seem to come out just before the election. It's like someone is intentionally releasing biased studies at a specific time to trick the American people in believing that a certain president's record is better than what it really is.


Better put on your tinfoil undies too. I hear that gubmint spy planes are trying to target your testes to rid the world of your superior seed.
 
2012-10-24 12:07:29 PM

oldernell: What are they going to name the lake when the bedrock is so fractured in Ohio and Pa. that the region becomes a giant sinkhole? If the footings to your house were broken like that it would be condemned.


Hell, I don't care. Not only will I have lake front property, I will be rich because of the well on my land!

But seriously, I am on the edge of the Ohio Marcellus Shale. I hope that a balance can be found between gathering the resource (and improving the economy of the area) and keeping the environment clean. The reclaimed strip mines south of me are starting to regain their natural beauty again, and they make a great place to go camping.

My parents own 500 acres on the Marcellus, they are being bombarded by leasing agencies. They have a lawyer involved, and are making sure that their rights are protected if they decide to drill on the land.
 
2012-10-24 12:08:23 PM

evoke: I am amazed by all these "positive" news articles and studies that seem to come out just before the election. It's like someone is intentionally releasing biased studies at a specific time to trick the American people in believing that a certain president's record is better than what it really is.


Reality has a liberal bias.

growlersoftware.com
 
2012-10-24 12:09:06 PM
I live on the Green River shale field. Here are the mailers I received just today. Multiple mailers every day telling the rubes about that damn Muslim Obama taking our jobs. My county will go about 75-percent for Romney, or as he's better known, the white guy.

farm9.staticflickr.com
 
2012-10-24 12:10:48 PM

MyRandomName: Do you really not understand that Obama is not the line who pushed for oil on private and state lands? Obama is not responsible for all that is good. Bad enough liberals are trying to give him credit for the 09/10 federal permit increases, ignoring that those permits were started and many approved under bush as it is a multi year permit. It just makes you look ignorantly partisan trying to give Obama credit for state and private land increases.


Yeah, and Republican's saying "the price of gas has doubled since Obama took office!" is totally valid.

growlersoftware.com
 
2012-10-24 12:13:30 PM
Guess this means all the "peak oil" proponents really WERE full of shiat huh?
 
2012-10-24 12:14:08 PM

oldernell: What are they going to name the lake when the bedrock is so fractured in Ohio and Pa. that the region becomes a giant sinkhole? If the footings to your house were broken like that it would be condemned.


The Sandusky Hole
 
2012-10-24 12:15:45 PM

evoke: This is happening in spite of Obama.


[Citation Needed]
 
2012-10-24 12:16:29 PM

REO-Weedwagon: I live on the Green River shale field. Here are the mailers I received just today. Multiple mailers every day telling the rubes about that damn Muslim Obama taking our jobs. My county will go about 75-percent for Romney, or as he's better known, the white guy.

[farm9.staticflickr.com image 500x375]


Heh, I love the "pro-coal" commercials that are played around here (for both sides). I would love to know if there are some anti-coal/pro-environment commercials playing in other parts of the country.

I don't think I am going to vote for President this election. Just state and local issues/candidates.
 
2012-10-24 12:17:35 PM
FTA: The increase in production hasn't translated to cheaper gasoline at the pump, and prices are expected to stay relatively high for the next few years because of growing demand for oil in developing nations and political instability in the Middle East and North Africa. 


The elimination of shipping costs alone, on that additional 9%, should result in a decrease in the price at the pump, even if world demand remains relatively high.

Yet, prices are expected to remain relatively high!

Does anyone else have a problem with this?
 
2012-10-24 12:17:40 PM
Not trolling - enjoy your groundwater while you can. It's the next commodity.
 
2012-10-24 12:18:47 PM

oldernell: What are they going to name the lake when the bedrock is so fractured in Ohio and Pa. that the region becomes a giant sinkhole? If the footings to your house were broken like that it would be condemned.


The Great Lake. You know, that one where the five used to be.
 
2012-10-24 12:21:48 PM
Burr, there is anti coal sentiment here in Florida. City of Gainesville's electric utility is adding mega watts of solar, via private partnerships. They have also contracted with a company to buy power from their wood burning power plant that they are building in the area.

Coal=Bad
Wood, brought in by 100+ diesel burning trucks per day=Good
 
2012-10-24 12:23:36 PM
They must of finished setting up the fake oil drilling set.
 
2012-10-24 12:25:10 PM
bmadore.squarespace.com
 
2012-10-24 12:28:34 PM
I'm okay with increased domestic drilling as long as it's done responsibly without any "The EPA is destroying the US economy whiny cr@p." Increased drilling should not, however, replace a continued pursuit of newer , cleaner energy options. Ideally, it would also be coupled with increased energy standards for most products and all vehicles as well as a hefty additional gasoline tax. I'd like to see proceeds from such a tax invested in mass transit, bike lanes, environmental clean-up, and research into alternative energy. I would like a tax heavy enough to drive the at pump price to six to eight dollars a gallon. Though harsh, I think it is the only way to get the yellow "I support the Troops" crowd on board with actions that might actually serve to help protect a few of our troops.

Yes, I would pay $8 dollars per gallon for gas to keep my son or your son from being deployed.
 
2012-10-24 12:32:25 PM
Isn't one of the big problems with gas prices is that there's a bottle neck of sort at the refinery step, and that there hasn't really been any new refineries built in decades? Or am I way off the mark on this?
 
2012-10-24 12:32:54 PM
OIl/Gas

Without it you wouldn't have polar fleece, $3,000 titanium mountain bikes, KEEN shoes, cell phones, the internet, etc etc

Oil/Gas isn't the ultimate answer. But it's a damn fine ingredient for making the 572 c.i. Chevy Big Block in my 1956 Chevrolet Nomad wagon roar like the ass kicker it is.

Now, don't get me wrong. Electric motors are some day going to kick internal combustion ass. Instant torque, no tranny, nearly unlimited RPM, fantastic grunt at each wheel if you put the motor there, but ...

... we're not there yet. We will be. But not yet.

Until then I'm damned glad somebody woke up to how much energy we've got right here at home and keep making hydrogen out here on the ranch.
 
2012-10-24 12:33:59 PM
But Obama hates oil and wants us all to power our homes by riding exercycles, I thought?
 
2012-10-24 12:34:53 PM

Wicked Chinchilla: snocone: USA is forced to buy oil from our enimies!

/a lie

Not a lie, just not fully accurate though. The US is forced to by oil from others. Sometimes this involved buying oil from our enemies. IT hasn't ALWAYS involved buying from our enemies, but sometimes, yes, yes it has.

It says right in the article we consume 18+million barrels of oil per day. We are only producing 10+million.
We are buying about half just by numbers alone from somewhere other than us.

/oil market is global
//the idea that US oil stays in the US is absurdly naive.


Not "forced" to do chiat.
But then, PROFIT is a strong force inducing criminal behavior and unending derp to cover it up and maintain the lies that society demands rather than face the truth they can't handle.
 
2012-10-24 12:35:50 PM
FTA
"Five years ago, if I or anyone had predicted today's production growth, people would have thought we were crazy," says Jim Burkhard, head of oil markets research at IHS CERA, an energy consulting firm.

Which proves that even the experts can't predict f*ck-all about commodities.

Businesses that serve the oil industry, such as steel companies that supply drilling pipe and railroads that transport oil, aren't the only ones benefiting. Homebuilders, auto dealers and retailers in energy-producing states are also getting a lift.

Drill, Baby Drill?
 
2012-10-24 12:36:33 PM

Modguy: Isn't one of the big problems with gas prices is that there's a bottle neck of sort at the refinery step, and that there hasn't really been any new refineries built in decades? Or am I way off the mark on this?


There is no B3 Bomber, and there is no refinery capacity shortage.
 
2012-10-24 12:39:50 PM

BigLoser: lordjupiter: GAT_00: Is that why MItt Romney said oil production is lower than it was 4 years ago?

Romney said that because he's a lying "empty suit" representing a party that cares more about being in power than telling the truth or doing what's best for this country.

You didn't define any difference from either party there, skippy...they are all lying, empty suits whose sole purpose is to line their pockets while in office.


Sorry, "skippy" but there are differences. "Both sides do it" logical fallacy of appeal to middle ground is not valid, especially when talking about specific people. And in this case, Romney fits my description 100% while others not so much.
 
2012-10-24 12:44:04 PM

t3knomanser: I am not inherently against fracking, but I recognize that this is a practice that conveys certain risks. There are documented cases of natural gas seepage into drinking water. There are a lot of open questions about disposing of used fracking fluids, etc.

The result is that I'm in a position where I say this: "Fracking is interesting and potentially useful, but what steps can we take to mitigate the negative externalities?" As a society, we have organized and empowered a specific collection of agencies to manage negative externalities (and provide positive ones): governments.

In a loose sense, governments achieve this goal by making rules, be they laws or regulations, and then enforcing those rules in a way that makes compliance preferable to non-compliance.

What I'm trying to say is that we've got a decent case to raise some concerns and demand tight regulation of fracking companies.


Reasonable, well thought out comments are boring. Please add more derp.
 
2012-10-24 12:44:29 PM

StanleyPuff: Drill, Baby Drill?


That's the funny thing about the "Drill, baby drill" - it's not a viable energy policy, and current conditions prove it. Oil production in the US is the highest its been since the 90s while gas consumption is in the US is down. Yet gas prices are north of $3 a gallon. We don't have enough oil to significantly affect world oil prices.

But drilling does create jobs. "Drill, baby drill" is a jobs program.

And oil just dropped below $85/barrel as I was typing this. If current oil prices hold, gas will be $3.15 next week.
 
2012-10-24 12:46:05 PM

snocone: There is no B3 Bomber, and there is no refinery capacity shortage.


The common argument is that price shoots up once OPEC refineries are at max capacity. But thats just OPEC
 
2012-10-24 12:47:23 PM

ToxicMunkee: oldernell: What are they going to name the lake when the bedrock is so fractured in Ohio and Pa. that the region becomes a giant sinkhole? If the footings to your house were broken like that it would be condemned.

The Ha-Ha Hole has a nice ring to it.


I kinda like "The Arse Hole" myself.
 
2012-10-24 12:49:19 PM

thecpt: snocone: There is no B3 Bomber, and there is no refinery capacity shortage.

The common argument is that price shoots up once OPEC refineries are at max capacity. But thats just OPEC


And OPEC is Hank Kissinger.
I'm waiting on history to decide on that.
 
2012-10-24 12:49:28 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-24 12:50:05 PM

stampylives: oldernell: What are they going to name the lake when the bedrock is so fractured in Ohio and Pa. that the region becomes a giant sinkhole? If the footings to your house were broken like that it would be condemned.

The Great Lake. You know, that one where the five used to be.


I doubt you could do more damage to the Great Lakes bedrock than the formation of the lakes themselves did. The weight of those glaciers tipped some of the oldest rocks in the world up the surface.
 
2012-10-24 12:50:59 PM

impaler: StanleyPuff: Drill, Baby Drill?

That's the funny thing about the "Drill, baby drill" - it's not a viable energy policy, and current conditions prove it. Oil production in the US is the highest its been since the 90s while gas consumption is in the US is down. Yet gas prices are north of $3 a gallon. We don't have enough oil to significantly affect world oil prices.

But drilling does create jobs. "Drill, baby drill" is a jobs program.

And oil just dropped below $85/barrel as I was typing this. If current oil prices hold, gas will be $3.15 next week.


I see, I predict, I prognosticate, OH, how does he do it?

Gas prices will be sweet for two weeks. Enjoy it.
 
2012-10-24 12:51:17 PM

impaler: And oil just dropped below $85/barrel as I was typing this. If current oil prices hold, gas will be $3.15 next week.


I got it for $3.03 this morning!
 
2012-10-24 12:52:37 PM

oldernell: What are they going to name the lake when the bedrock is so fractured in Ohio and Pa. that the region becomes a giant sinkhole? If the footings to your house were broken like that it would be condemned.


NotSureIfSerious.jpg

Maybe you know something that I do not, but there will be natural gas drilling on my families property soon and I've gotten pretty familiar with their process. It is also my understanding that oil drilling is very similar to gas drilling.

They punch one hole (can vary between 14" and 96" diameter) in the ground and then go horizontal, in "wagon wheel" fashion, for approximately 2,600' in 8 equally spaced directions (radially). If they decided to honeycomb the landscape with pumping rigs, that would mean there is a hole every 5,200 feet.

Were you implying that these equally spaced holes, a mile apart, would cause bedrock to become unstable? Is the oil drilling much more intrusive than natural gas?
 
2012-10-24 12:54:48 PM
Now is the time to pre-purchase gas, if you can.
Wonder what the surge in sales will amount to?
Can't be that many contracts at sub $3 left, can there?
 
2012-10-24 12:55:36 PM
The way I read it the article is purposely misleading. Ethanol is included in the total, which we all know is a horrible idea.

FTA:
The Energy Department forecasts that U.S. production of crude and other liquid hydrocarbons, which includes biofuels


The trend is fairly good, obviously, but the main argument about restricting oil drilling is still valid in other parts of the country. It's also fashionable to be scared of fracking, so if it's evil, isn't concentrating on it and polluting groundwater something BO should be avoiding?
 
2012-10-24 12:56:45 PM

StanleyPuff: oldernell: What are they going to name the lake when the bedrock is so fractured in Ohio and Pa. that the region becomes a giant sinkhole? If the footings to your house were broken like that it would be condemned.

NotSureIfSerious.jpg

Maybe you know something that I do not, but there will be natural gas drilling on my families property soon and I've gotten pretty familiar with their process. It is also my understanding that oil drilling is very similar to gas drilling.

They punch one hole (can vary between 14" and 96" diameter) in the ground and then go horizontal, in "wagon wheel" fashion, for approximately 2,600' in 8 equally spaced directions (radially). If they decided to honeycomb the landscape with pumping rigs, that would mean there is a hole every 5,200 feet.

Were you implying that these equally spaced holes, a mile apart, would cause bedrock to become unstable? Is the oil drilling much more intrusive than natural gas?


It would seem that doing this in the desert would be a better choice, eh?
Like War, it is bestter "over there".
 
2012-10-24 12:59:01 PM

impaler: That's the funny thing about the "Drill, baby drill" - it's not a viable energy policy, and current conditions prove it. Oil production in the US is the highest its been since the 90s while gas consumption is in the US is down. Yet gas prices are north of $3 a gallon. We don't have enough oil to significantly affect world oil prices.


That would be significant if oil prices were driven by supply/demand instead of by speculation.
 
2012-10-24 01:04:25 PM
In Romney's defense, he said oil production was down 14% on public lands. Of course the number was out of context and referenced a single year, I think 2010-2011. But yes it was total BS.
 
2012-10-24 01:05:01 PM
Oil company breaking all previous profits and sales and you think prices are going down.
www.commondreams.org

You have to treat the oil company like a pinata. Now does a pinata just give you the candy? No you have to beat it with a stick.
chairandtablerentals.com
 
2012-10-24 01:07:06 PM
Looks like 1/3 of the posts in this thread got cut off, I'll finish them:

"So vote Republican"

/morans
 
2012-10-24 01:11:43 PM

Leonard Washington: Looks like 1/3 of the posts in this thread got cut off, I'll finish them:

"So vote Republican"

/morans


Au contrare'.
Obummer is getting a real hand job from the oil industry just in time for the election.
I see them going with the winner.
 
2012-10-24 01:23:35 PM

evoke: This is happening in spite of Obama.

I am amazed by all these "positive" news articles and studies that seem to come out just before the election. It's like someone is intentionally releasing biased studies at a specific time to trick the American people in believing that a certain president's record is better than what it really is.


America has increased it's oil production every year for the last five years. This isn't new, and it was publicly available data to anyone actually interested in facts, rather than trying to make the fairy tale in their head reality.

Here is another fact. American demand for oil has dropped every year the last four. Given that supply is way up and demand is way down, we should be paying much lower prices for fuel now, right? That invisible hand of the free market and all dictates it. Right? RIGHT?
 
2012-10-24 01:25:41 PM

This text is now purple: impaler: That's the funny thing about the "Drill, baby drill" - it's not a viable energy policy, and current conditions prove it. Oil production in the US is the highest its been since the 90s while gas consumption is in the US is down. Yet gas prices are north of $3 a gallon. We don't have enough oil to significantly affect world oil prices.

That would be significant if oil prices were driven by supply/demand instead of by speculation.


It only becomes significant if we nationalize our oil supply and ensure that American refineries buy from an American market, rather than a global market. If we can drive consumption down even further (can haz high efficiency diesel?) I'd be perfectly OK with that.
 
2012-10-24 01:32:06 PM

impaler: evoke: I am amazed by all these "positive" news articles and studies that seem to come out just before the election. It's like someone is intentionally releasing biased studies at a specific time to trick the American people in believing that a certain president's record is better than what it really is.

Reality has a liberal bias.


FY 2009 budget signed by Obama... not his!

2009/10 drilling permits and state and private land drilling not signed by Obama... it is Obama!!!!!

Such a partisan joke.
 
2012-10-24 01:36:25 PM

MyRandomName: FY 2009 budget signed by Obama... not his!

2009/10 drilling permits and state and private land drilling not signed by Obama... it is Obama!!!!!


I have no idea WTF you're point is. Are the voices in your head getting out of control?
 
2012-10-24 01:37:00 PM
you're point = your point
 
2012-10-24 01:43:00 PM
This is obviously bad news for Obama.

Romney in a landslide!
 
2012-10-24 01:53:42 PM

impaler: MyRandomName: FY 2009 budget signed by Obama... not his!

2009/10 drilling permits and state and private land drilling not signed by Obama... it is Obama!!!!!

I have no idea WTF you're point is. Are the voices in your head getting out of control?


His point is how much credit (either good or bad) the POTUS gets for various situations, when the POTUS had absolutely no affect on the situation.

The article indicates the increase in oil production has been the result of advances in fracking technology.

Number of patent applications filed during the indicated timeframe with the terms "fracking" or "hydraulic fracturing":
01 January 2000 to 01 January 2004 - 456
01 January 2004 to 01 January 2008 - 943
01 January 2008 to 01 January 2012 - 1251
 
2012-10-24 01:57:15 PM

Rent Party: This text is now purple: impaler: That's the funny thing about the "Drill, baby drill" - it's not a viable energy policy, and current conditions prove it. Oil production in the US is the highest its been since the 90s while gas consumption is in the US is down. Yet gas prices are north of $3 a gallon. We don't have enough oil to significantly affect world oil prices.

That would be significant if oil prices were driven by supply/demand instead of by speculation.

It only becomes significant if we nationalize our oil supply and ensure that American refineries buy from an American market, rather than a global market. If we can drive consumption down even further (can haz high efficiency diesel?) I'd be perfectly OK with that.


So nationalizing our oil supply magically makes the USA have enough oil to be self sufficient? I work in the oil industry here in the USA. In fact I have spent a fair amount of time in North Dakota, Montana, and Wyoming where we are seeing production increases in the last five years after decades of decline. The creativity, hard work, and perseverance of the people in this industry at all levels is amazing. We are doing things, and getting oil from places that was simply not possible a few years ago. We have always known that we have world class supplies in tight rock for years now, but have not had the technology to go get it. With the combination of efficient horizontal drilling and multistage fracture stimulations (Frack jobs) we are able to recover 200,000 to 500,000 barrels of oil per well from rock that would barely give us 10,000 barrells through old conventional techniques. This is what is leading to the huge new supplies of oil available to the United States domestically. Add to that the increases we are seeing in Canada in their tar sands in Northern Alberta. North America and the USA can become basically self sufficient in oil. we will still have to import some supplies from outside North America to meet demand.

All of that said, no matter what we do, oil is a global commodity. The price of a barrell of oil will be largely the same across the world no matter what we do. With the ever increasing and acceleration of demand for oil in the developing world (because they want to have the standard of living enjoyed in the USA and Western Europe) the price for a gallon of gasoline will most likely remain high. There is not a whole lot that can be done about this. Other than produce as much as possible to keep the gap between supply and demand as small as possible. I see no scenario where "nationalizing" our domestic supply would make any sense at all. that would be one of the most destabilizing things we could possibly do in this price environment.

Hydraulic Fracturing is a safe process that has very little inherent risk to groundwater supplies. The biggest issue is not the frack job itself, it is the cement job in the near surface that is the biggest issue. Tight regulation exists to verify the integrity of the cement jobs in the near surface environment. deep underground hydraulic fracturing poses little threat to groundwater. The cement jobs and disposal of frack fluid that comes back to the surface through the well are the biggest threats to the environment and groundwater. Those two things should be the focus of regulators and companies that it is done responsibly and safely. The vast vast majority of oil companies are responsible operators that do not want to destroy the land and deal with lawsuits that arise from that. It is incumbent on these companies to make sure that those few companies that are not responsible operators to change their practices or leave the business.

It is absolutely ridiculous though to "nationalize" the USA's oil industry to help control price and supply......it would do the exact opposite destabilize price and decrease supply.
 
2012-10-24 02:02:38 PM

Rent Party: evoke: This is happening in spite of Obama.

I am amazed by all these "positive" news articles and studies that seem to come out just before the election. It's like someone is intentionally releasing biased studies at a specific time to trick the American people in believing that a certain president's record is better than what it really is.

America has increased it's oil production every year for the last five years. This isn't new, and it was publicly available data to anyone actually interested in facts, rather than trying to make the fairy tale in their head reality.

Here is another fact. American demand for oil has dropped every year the last four. Given that supply is way up and demand is way down, we should be paying much lower prices for fuel now, right? That invisible hand of the free market and all dictates it. Right? RIGHT?


Given that it's a global commodity, dont' you have to factor global supply and demand?
 
2012-10-24 02:03:09 PM
barrel

Zirconium: So nationalizing our oil supply magically makes the USA have enough oil to be self sufficient? I work in the oil industry here in the USA. In fact I have spent a fair amount of time in North Dakota, Montana, and Wyoming where we are seeing production increases in the last five years after decades of decline. The creativity, hard work, and perseverance of the people in this industry at all levels is amazing. We are doing things, and getting oil from places that was simply not possible a few years ago. We have always known that we have world class supplies in tight rock for years now, but have not had the technology to go get it. With the combination of efficient horizontal drilling and multistage fracture stimulations (Frack jobs) we are able to recover 200,000 to 500,000 barrels of oil per well from rock that would barely give us 10,000 barrells through old conventional techniques. This is what is leading to the huge new supplies of oil available to the United States domestically. Add to that the increases we are seeing in Canada in their tar sands in Northern Alberta. North America and the USA can become basically self sufficient in oil. we will still have to import some supplies from outside North America to meet demand.

All of that said, no matter what we do, oil is a global commodity. The price of a barrell of oil will be largely the same across the world no matter what we do. With the ever increasing and acceleration of demand for oil in the developing world (because they want to have the standard of living enjoyed in the USA and Western Europe) the price for a gallon of gasoline will most likely remain high. There is not a whole lot that can be done about this. Other than produce as much as possible to keep the gap between supply and demand as small as possible. I see no scenario where "nationalizing" our domestic supply would make any sense at all. that would be one of the most destabilizing things we could possibly do in this price environ ...


You'd think someone who works in the oil industry could at least spell barrel correctly . . .
 
2012-10-24 02:08:54 PM

Burr: oldernell: What are they going to name the lake when the bedrock is so fractured in Ohio and Pa. that the region becomes a giant sinkhole? If the footings to your house were broken like that it would be condemned.

Hell, I don't care. Not only will I have lake front property, I will be rich because of the well on my land!

But seriously, I am on the edge of the Ohio Marcellus Shale. I hope that a balance can be found between gathering the resource (and improving the economy of the area) and keeping the environment clean. The reclaimed strip mines south of me are starting to regain their natural beauty again, and they make a great place to go camping.

My parents own 500 acres on the Marcellus, they are being bombarded by leasing agencies. They have a lawyer involved, and are making sure that their rights are protected if they decide to drill on the land.


What part of Ohio are you from? I'm from Belmont County originally. That area definately needs the econonmic shot in the arm the drilling is bringing. That's why I moved away.
 
2012-10-24 02:17:33 PM

WTFDYW: What part of Ohio are you from? I'm from Belmont County originally. That area definately needs the econonmic shot in the arm the drilling is bringing. That's why I moved away.


Right now I am in Guernsey (grew up in Muskingum) It's slowly starting to get better around here, rental property is going like crazy because of all the out of state drillers. I'm hoping that some GIS jobs pop up soon (I work in CAD, but my degree is GIS) and I am already getting inquires about GIS training from some people around here.
 
2012-10-24 02:20:35 PM

Zirconium:
So nationalizing our oil supply magically makes the USA have enough oil to be self sufficient?


If we can drive about another 6 million barrels a day out of our demand, yes. I'm fine with supplementing that from Canadian oil fields if needs be. NAFTA and all that.


I work in the oil industry here in the USA. In fact I have spent a fair amount of time in North Dakota, Montana, and Wyoming where we are seeing production increases in the last five years after decades of decline. The creativity, hard work, and perseverance of the people in this industry at all levels is amazing. We are doing things, and getting oil from places that was simply not possible a few years ago. We have always known that we have world class supplies in tight rock for years now, but have not had the technology to go get it.


Exactly my point. You guys are doing all of this work getting at our oil, and then your boss is turning around and selling it to China and India.

It is absolutely ridiculous though to "nationalize" the USA's oil industry to help control price and supply......it would do the exact opposite destabilize price and decrease supply.

It is ridiculous to assume adding our supply to global markets where it is impacted by global demand ,which is rising, will result in lower gas prices at home.

If we can produce enough to be self sufficient, it won't make us self sufficient because your boss isn't selling in America. It would destabilize global prices, and upset your boss. But that doesn't bother me because that guy is an asshole. Venezuela has the cheapest gas on the planet for a reason.
 
2012-10-24 02:34:15 PM
Good luck to you Burr.
 
2012-10-24 02:46:30 PM

Zirconium: Rent Party: This text is now purple: impaler: That's the funny thing about the "Drill, baby drill" - it's not a viable energy policy, and current conditions prove it. Oil production in the US is the highest its been since the 90s while gas consumption is in the US is down. Yet gas prices are north of $3 a gallon. We don't have enough oil to significantly affect world oil prices.

That would be significant if oil prices were driven by supply/demand instead of by speculation.

It only becomes significant if we nationalize our oil supply and ensure that American refineries buy from an American market, rather than a global market. If we can drive consumption down even further (can haz high efficiency diesel?) I'd be perfectly OK with that.

So nationalizing our oil supply magically makes the USA have enough oil to be self sufficient? I work in the oil industry here in the USA. In fact I have spent a fair amount of time in North Dakota, Montana, and Wyoming where we are seeing production increases in the last five years after decades of decline. The creativity, hard work, and perseverance of the people in this industry at all levels is amazing. We are doing things, and getting oil from places that was simply not possible a few years ago. We have always known that we have world class supplies in tight rock for years now, but have not had the technology to go get it. With the combination of efficient horizontal drilling and multistage fracture stimulations (Frack jobs) we are able to recover 200,000 to 500,000 barrels of oil per well from rock that would barely give us 10,000 barrells through old conventional techniques. This is what is leading to the huge new supplies of oil available to the United States domestically. Add to that the increases we are seeing in Canada in their tar sands in Northern Alberta. North America and the USA can become basically self sufficient in oil. we will still have to import some supplies from outside North America to meet deman ...

 

The highlighted section voids any point you are trying to make or defend.
 
2012-10-24 03:26:26 PM

Cythraul: Didn't read the article. I guess this is good and bad. Slack regulations on things like Hydraulic Fracturing is bad. But it could create jobs, so that's good. But I doubt it'll lower energy prices, since there's no guarantee that a significant amount of this oil will be sold to the U.S., unless there's some regulation I'm missing.


Since we use much more oil than we produce, wouldn't you think most of the U.S. production will remain in the U.S.?
 
2012-10-24 03:39:33 PM

Lunaville: Ideally, it would also be coupled with increased energy standards for most products and all vehicles as well as a hefty additional gasoline tax. I'd like to see proceeds from such a tax invested in mass transit, bike lanes, environmental clean-up, and research into alternative energy


About that alternative energy investment

The complete list of faltering or bankrupt green-energy companies:[so far] and the amount of tax payer dollars they have recieved to date.

*Denotes companies that have filed for bankruptcy.
1.Evergreen Solar ($25 million)*
2.SpectraWatt ($500,000)*
3.Solyndra ($535 million)*
4.Beacon Power ($43 million)*
5.Nevada Geothermal ($98.5 million)
6.SunPower ($1.2 billion)
7.First Solar ($1.46 billion)
8.Babcock and Brown ($178 million)
9.EnerDel's subsidiary Ener1 ($118.5 million)*
10.Amonix ($5.9 million)
11.Fisker Automotive ($529 million)
12.Abound Solar ($400 million)*
13.A123 Systems ($279 million)*
14.Willard and Kelsey Solar Group ($700,981)*
15.Johnson Controls ($299 million)
16.Schneider Electric ($86 million)
17.Brightsource ($1.6 billion)
18.ECOtality ($126.2 million)
19.Raser Technologies ($33 million)*
20.Energy Conversion Devices ($13.3 million)*
21.Mountain Plaza, Inc. ($2 million)*
22.Olsen's Crop Service and Olsen's Mills Acquisition Company ($10 million)*
23.Range Fuels ($80 million)*
24.Thompson River Power ($6.5 million)*
25.Stirling Energy Systems ($7 million)*
26.Azure Dynamics ($5.4 million)*
27.GreenVolts ($500,000)
28.Vestas ($50 million)
29.LG Chem's subsidiary Compact Power ($151 million)
30.Nordic Windpower ($16 million)*
31.Navistar ($39 million)
32.Satcon ($3 million)*
33.Konarka Technologies Inc. ($20 million)*
34.Mascoma Corp. ($100 million)
 
2012-10-24 03:49:16 PM

Cythraul: Didn't read the article. I guess this is good and bad. Slack regulations on things like Hydraulic Fracturing is bad. But it could create jobs, so that's good. But I doubt it'll lower energy prices, since there's no guarantee that a significant amount of this oil will be sold to the U.S


But it comes with a free Frogurt.
 
2012-10-24 03:56:17 PM

Burr: WTFDYW: What part of Ohio are you from? I'm from Belmont County originally. That area definately needs the econonmic shot in the arm the drilling is bringing. That's why I moved away.

Right now I am in Guernsey (grew up in Muskingum) It's slowly starting to get better around here, rental property is going like crazy because of all the out of state drillers. I'm hoping that some GIS jobs pop up soon (I work in CAD, but my degree is GIS) and I am already getting inquires about GIS training from some people around here.



Dude there are a TON of GIS/CAD tech jobs right now in WV due to the new drilling. Many of them along the Ohio River (like Parkersburg up) and som in the Morgantown/Wetzel/Marion Counties. Look 'em up!

Gas pipeline GIS, while it pays well, is shoot-yourself-in-the-face-boring, but it gets the job done. I did it for 4 years and then got into Emergency management before I went insane.
 
2012-10-24 04:40:58 PM

Mangoose: It's weird but I thought the Ohio Shale find was the biggest find of all? Was that just hype?


The Marcellus and Utica shale extends through Ohio, PA, VA, parts of KY and NY. The estimated amount of gas and oil is one of the largest ever discovered.

Getting it out is the hard part, it's very deep and wont flow without fracturing the shiat out of the shale. We've only just now tapped into it because of advancements in drilling and fracturing technology. But the wells are capable of producing incomprehensible amounts of gas, some with pressures over 8,000 PSI.
 
2012-10-24 04:54:46 PM

hasty ambush: Lunaville: Ideally, it would also be coupled with increased energy standards for most products and all vehicles as well as a hefty additional gasoline tax. I'd like to see proceeds from such a tax invested in mass transit, bike lanes, environmental clean-up, and research into alternative energy

About that alternative energy investment

The complete list bankrupt green-energy companies:[so far] and the amount of tax payer dollars they have recieved to date.

1.Evergreen Solar ($25 million)*
2.SpectraWatt ($500,000)*
3.Solyndra ($535 million)*
4.Beacon Power ($43 million)*
9.EnerDel's subsidiary Ener1 ($118.5 million)*
12.Abound Solar ($400 million)*
13.A123 Systems ($279 million)*
14.Willard and Kelsey Solar Group ($700,981)*
19.Raser Technologies ($33 million)*
20.Energy Conversion Devices ($13.3 million)*
21.Mountain Plaza, Inc. ($2 million)*
22.Olsen's Crop Service and Olsen's Mills Acquisition Company ($10 million)*
23.Range Fuels ($80 million)*
24.Thompson River Power ($6.5 million)*
25.Stirling Energy Systems ($7 million)*
26.Azure Dynamics ($5.4 million)*
30.Nordic Windpower ($16 million)*
32.Satcon ($3 million)*
33.Konarka Technologies Inc. ($20 million)*


There, cut out your 'faltering' companies and only included companies that have gone or are in bankruptcy. According to your numbers, that represents $1.6 billion dollars - which sounds like a mighty sum. But when you look at the total amount earmarked for energy investment in the Obama Stimulus package is $90 billion dollars, $1.6 billion in loss is tiny in comparison. Considering the failure rate represents 1.7% of the public investment in *energy loans,* I'm not all that worried. As long as 90% of the companies repay their loans, with interest, the public is going to make money on the venture, and the USA will be far more competitive in the energy sector.

Considering the Bush meltdown on the banking and investment sector, it makes complete sense to open up public capital for loans. 

/math is hard for Republicans
 
2012-10-24 04:57:28 PM
But we still need to spend billions and waste American lives meddling in the Middle East. Right Republicans?
 
2012-10-24 04:59:58 PM

hasty ambush: Lunaville: Ideally, it would also be coupled with increased energy standards for most products and all vehicles as well as a hefty additional gasoline tax. I'd like to see proceeds from such a tax invested in mass transit, bike lanes, environmental clean-up, and research into alternative energy

About that alternative energy investment

The complete list of faltering or bankrupt green-energy companies:[so far] and the amount of tax payer dollars they have recieved to date.

*Denotes companies that have filed for bankruptcy.
1.Evergreen Solar ($25 million)*
2.SpectraWatt ($500,000)*
3.Solyndra ($535 million)*
4.Beacon Power ($43 million)*
5.Nevada Geothermal ($98.5 million)
6.SunPower ($1.2 billion)
7.First Solar ($1.46 billion)
8.Babcock and Brown ($178 million)
9.EnerDel's subsidiary Ener1 ($118.5 million)*
10.Amonix ($5.9 million)
11.Fisker Automotive ($529 million)
12.Abound Solar ($400 million)*
13.A123 Systems ($279 million)*
14.Willard and Kelsey Solar Group ($700,981)*
15.Johnson Controls ($299 million)
16.Schneider Electric ($86 million)
17.Brightsource ($1.6 billion)
18.ECOtality ($126.2 million)
19.Raser Technologies ($33 million)*
20.Energy Conversion Devices ($13.3 million)*
21.Mountain Plaza, Inc. ($2 million)*
22.Olsen's Crop Service and Olsen's Mills Acquisition Company ($10 million)*
23.Range Fuels ($80 million)*
24.Thompson River Power ($6.5 million)*
25.Stirling Energy Systems ($7 million)*
26.Azure Dynamics ($5.4 million)*
27.GreenVolts ($500,000)
28.Vestas ($50 million)
29.LG Chem's subsidiary Compact Power ($151 million)
30.Nordic Windpower ($16 million)*
31.Navistar ($39 million)
32.Satcon ($3 million)*
33.Konarka Technologies Inc. ($20 million)*
34.Mascoma Corp. ($100 million)


When you're right you're right. It reminds me of some of these failures - Link and these Link

Investing in science and research is such a waste of money. When will we Americans learn our lesson?
 
2012-10-24 05:00:54 PM

Rent Party: evoke: This is happening in spite of Obama.

I am amazed by all these "positive" news articles and studies that seem to come out just before the election. It's like someone is intentionally releasing biased studies at a specific time to trick the American people in believing that a certain president's record is better than what it really is.

America has increased it's oil production every year for the last five years. This isn't new, and it was publicly available data to anyone actually interested in facts, rather than trying to make the fairy tale in their head reality.

Here is another fact. American demand for oil has dropped every year the last four. Given that supply is way up and demand is way down, we should be paying much lower prices for fuel now, right? That invisible hand of the free market and all dictates it. Right? RIGHT?


If the oil market was US only, sure. Trouble is, even as our demand goes down, the demand from China and India are going up faster. Oil is fungible, which is to say as good as money regardless of where in the world it is (kind of like gold, hence 'black gold') so their increased demand affects our oil prices. It is the free market at work, it is just much larger in scope than most in the US are thinking about - the world is the market, not just the US.
 
2012-10-24 06:10:52 PM
So amazingly this is occurring despite the fact that we have destroyed America by not drilling for oil in the Alaska Arctic Refuge.
Unpossible!
 
2012-10-24 06:26:23 PM
I guess the war for oil worked out, sorta?
 
2012-10-24 06:27:59 PM

BuckTurgidson: Cythraul: Didn't read the article. I guess this is good and bad. Slack regulations on things like Hydraulic Fracturing is bad. But it could create jobs, so that's good. But I doubt it'll lower energy prices, since there's no guarantee that a significant amount of this oil will be sold to the U.S

But it comes with a free Frogurt.


Which is good, right?
 
2012-10-24 06:37:15 PM
From TFA:

The increase in production hasn't translated to cheaper gasoline at the pump, and prices are expected to stay relatively high for the next few years because of growing demand for oil in developing nations and political instability in the Middle East and North Africa.

Read this, then read it again. Let it sink in.

These "new" oil reserves in the US are not new; they've been known for years. However, the cost to extract the oil from them has made them not worth exploiting. Now that the price of oil has gone up, they're starting to become profitable. But they won't--they CANNOT--bring down the price of gas.
 
2012-10-24 06:45:25 PM

Mouser: From TFA:

The increase in production hasn't translated to cheaper gasoline at the pump, and prices are expected to stay relatively high for the next few years because of growing demand for oil in developing nations and political instability in the Middle East and North Africa.

Read this, then read it again. Let it sink in.

These "new" oil reserves in the US are not new; they've been known for years. However, the cost to extract the oil from them has made them not worth exploiting. Now that the price of oil has gone up, they're starting to become profitable. But they won't--they CANNOT--bring down the price of gas.


We'll just terraform Mars and 3D print a space elevator, Mr Negative.
 
2012-10-24 07:38:43 PM

Mouser: These "new" oil reserves in the US are not new; they've been known for years. However, the cost to extract the oil from them has made them not worth exploiting. Now that the price of oil has gone up, they're starting to become profitable. But they won't--they CANNOT--bring down the price of gas.


But as the price of transportation fuel rises, the more cost-effective these become:
www.nachi.org
+
www.blogcdn.com

Let US based energy companies (and shareholders) make obscene profits from the rest of the world. We should use a portion of that wealth to further reduce our dependency on fossil fuels.
 
2012-10-24 09:10:03 PM

MrSteve007: Mouser: These "new" oil reserves in the US are not new; they've been known for years. However, the cost to extract the oil from them has made them not worth exploiting. Now that the price of oil has gone up, they're starting to become profitable. But they won't--they CANNOT--bring down the price of gas.

But as the price of transportation fuel rises, the more cost-effective these become:
[www.nachi.org image 640x480]
+
[www.blogcdn.com image 630x419]

Let US based energy companies (and shareholders) make obscene profits from the rest of the world. We should use a portion of that wealth to further reduce our dependency on fossil fuels.


I see a bizarre face in that car's front end.
 
2012-10-24 09:30:20 PM

This text is now purple: impaler: That's the funny thing about the "Drill, baby drill" - it's not a viable energy policy, and current conditions prove it. Oil production in the US is the highest its been since the 90s while gas consumption is in the US is down. Yet gas prices are north of $3 a gallon. We don't have enough oil to significantly affect world oil prices.

That would be significant if oil prices were driven by supply/demand instead of by speculation.


Paul Krugman says speculation is nonsense. So does Greg Mankiw. Bi-partisan agreement: speculation is bullshiat.
 
2012-10-24 09:44:46 PM

meat0918: GAT_00: Is that why MItt Romney said oil production is lower than it was 4 years ago?

Mitt Romney says a lot of things.


I saw him on TV just now. He was still saying things.
 
2012-10-24 10:14:12 PM
Natural gas is where the real glut, and this depressed prices, is....

I just hope the CNG infrastructure gets a little more robust. That would make a CNG vehicle very tempting
 
2012-10-24 10:29:09 PM

Mouser: These "new" oil reserves in the US are not new; they've been known for years.


Nice misleading statement. But I won't try to argue potential vs probable vs proven.

Mouser: However, the cost to extract the oil from them has made them not worth exploiting. Now that the price of oil has gone up, they're starting to become profitable.


More simplistic interpretation. Some areas are going to be much more profitable than others. Anyone can post that "Shale Oil and Shale Gas" basin map and think they can do some areal extent and determine how much oil is in various places... and they'd be wrong. The folks at EIA could only guess how many reserves are in each basin, but until actual wells are drilled, they (and everyone else) were clueless as to whether the wells would actually produce ANY oil, at any price. The Eagle Ford in Texas is considerably more productive per acre than the Niobrara, yet you wouldn't know that until you actually tried to complete a well in either.

Mouser: Now that the price of oil has gone up, they're starting to become profitable. But they won't--they CANNOT--bring down the price of gas.


The cost of oil has an effect, alright -- the effect of the rate of increase in oil supply. It hasn't affected the price because America needs such a large a supply of liquid hydrocarbons. The price of (natural) gas is showing the opposite effect lately, as the gas supply has overwhelmed the marketplace's ability to use it all. There are coal fired electric plants whose owners have been forced to invest in natural gas fired turbines, because they couldn't make a profit using coal.

In other words, the cost for electricity in the United States is low, and has remained low for some time, only because of the massive amount of fracking that has taken place.
If you pay for electricity in the United States, whether it be from wind or coal or natural gas, you have benefitted from the fracking of gas shales in North America.
 
2012-10-24 10:30:38 PM
...and we shall destroy ourselves while doing it. Our water will be too polluted to drink, and war will erupt.

meh.

finding me a nest in the hills. away from the open top mining.
 
2012-10-24 10:32:54 PM

you have pee hands: oldernell: What are they going to name the lake when the bedrock is so fractured in Ohio and Pa. that the region becomes a giant sinkhole? If the footings to your house were broken like that it would be condemned.

The Sandusky Hole


exactly
 
2012-10-24 10:37:09 PM

StanleyPuff: oldernell: What are they going to name the lake when the bedrock is so fractured in Ohio and Pa. that the region becomes a giant sinkhole? If the footings to your house were broken like that it would be condemned.

NotSureIfSerious.jpg

Maybe you know something that I do not, but there will be natural gas drilling on my families property soon and I've gotten pretty familiar with their process. It is also my understanding that oil drilling is very similar to gas drilling.

They punch one hole (can vary between 14" and 96" diameter) in the ground and then go horizontal, in "wagon wheel" fashion, for approximately 2,600' in 8 equally spaced directions (radially). If they decided to honeycomb the landscape with pumping rigs, that would mean there is a hole every 5,200 feet.

Were you implying that these equally spaced holes, a mile apart, would cause bedrock to become unstable? Is the oil drilling much more intrusive than natural gas?


Um, yeah. I suspect that in a ling term they would become unstable. Imaging that all the fuel pockets are interlinked, and then drained dry, a large cavern would form. in a wagonwheel pattern I would think that the blah blah blah insert scientific crap here. screw this, im going to stare at the moon for a few minutes.
 
2012-10-24 10:54:44 PM
Spot price of natural gas today in US markets was $2.69/MCF
Spot price for oil (WTI) is $88.67
The multiplier for gas to oil is about 6, give or take.

To do the same amount of heating as a single barrel of oil, you'd need about $16.14.

Natural gas is about 5.5 times cheaper in the US than oil.

The same can NOT be said for Europe. One of Russia's big natural gas suppliers just signed a big fat contract for 10 years with a German company at a price of around $10/MCF

At current estimates, it would cost about $2.50/MCF to transport natural gas from American ports to Europe.

The process for getting natural gas moving to Europe for those higher prices is slow, but is on its way to happen at present.
 
2012-10-24 11:59:50 PM

Lunaville: hasty ambush: Lunaville: Ideally, it would also be coupled with increased energy standards for most products and all vehicles as well as a hefty additional gasoline tax. I'd like to see proceeds from such a tax invested in mass transit, bike lanes, environmental clean-up, and research into alternative energy

About that alternative energy investment

The complete list of faltering or bankrupt green-energy companies:[so far] and the amount of tax payer dollars they have recieved to date.

*Denotes companies that have filed for bankruptcy.
1.Evergreen Solar ($25 million)*
2.SpectraWatt ($500,000)*
3.Solyndra ($535 million)*
4.Beacon Power ($43 million)*
5.Nevada Geothermal ($98.5 million)
6.SunPower ($1.2 billion)
7.First Solar ($1.46 billion)
8.Babcock and Brown ($178 million)
9.EnerDel's subsidiary Ener1 ($118.5 million)*
10.Amonix ($5.9 million)
11.Fisker Automotive ($529 million)
12.Abound Solar ($400 million)*
13.A123 Systems ($279 million)*
14.Willard and Kelsey Solar Group ($700,981)*
15.Johnson Controls ($299 million)
16.Schneider Electric ($86 million)
17.Brightsource ($1.6 billion)
18.ECOtality ($126.2 million)
19.Raser Technologies ($33 million)*
20.Energy Conversion Devices ($13.3 million)*
21.Mountain Plaza, Inc. ($2 million)*
22.Olsen's Crop Service and Olsen's Mills Acquisition Company ($10 million)*
23.Range Fuels ($80 million)*
24.Thompson River Power ($6.5 million)*
25.Stirling Energy Systems ($7 million)*
26.Azure Dynamics ($5.4 million)*
27.GreenVolts ($500,000)
28.Vestas ($50 million)
29.LG Chem's subsidiary Compact Power ($151 million)
30.Nordic Windpower ($16 million)*
31.Navistar ($39 million)
32.Satcon ($3 million)*
33.Konarka Technologies Inc. ($20 million)*
34.Mascoma Corp. ($100 million)

When you're right you're right. It reminds me of some of these failures - Link and these Link

Investing in science and research is such a waste of money. When will we Americans learn our lesson?


None of your examples involved tax dollars did they?
 
2012-10-25 01:41:50 AM

SVenus: Spot price of natural gas today in US markets was $2.69/MCF
Spot price for oil (WTI) is $88.67
The multiplier for gas to oil is about 6, give or take.

To do the same amount of heating as a single barrel of oil, you'd need about $16.14.

Natural gas is about 5.5 times cheaper in the US than oil.

The same can NOT be said for Europe. One of Russia's big natural gas suppliers just signed a big fat contract for 10 years with a German company at a price of around $10/MCF

At current estimates, it would cost about $2.50/MCF to transport natural gas from American ports to Europe.

The process for getting natural gas moving to Europe for those higher prices is slow, but is on its way to happen at present.


We have established the proposed transaction is acceptable.
Merely negotiating price.
 
2012-10-25 02:23:48 AM

GAT_00: Is that why MItt Romney said oil production is lower than it was 4 years ago?


No. He said that because he's a disingenuous knob.
 
2012-10-25 02:25:53 AM

uttertosh: AWESOME!!

Now i don't need to worry about stupid farking alternative energy anymore!! Now we all can eat corn at a reasonable price again, cos we won't need it for biofuel!!!


There's still greenhouse gases to worry about.
 
2012-10-25 02:30:42 AM

BigLoser: lordjupiter: GAT_00: Is that why MItt Romney said oil production is lower than it was 4 years ago?

Romney said that because he's a lying "empty suit" representing a party that cares more about being in power than telling the truth or doing what's best for this country.

You didn't define any difference from either party there, skippy...they are all lying, empty suits whose sole purpose is to line their pockets while in office.


I don't believe that's true at all.

Most of them are ideologically driven, a sizable minority are psychopaths who want personal gain and another sizable minority really want to do good.
 
2012-10-25 08:49:03 AM

kg2095: uttertosh: AWESOME!!

Now i don't need to worry about stupid farking alternative energy anymore!! Now we all can eat corn at a reasonable price again, cos we won't need it for biofuel!!!

There's still greenhouse gases to worry about.


I can get Gas in my GREENHOUSE?!??! Wow...What a country!!

I love USofA.
 
2012-10-25 11:57:19 AM

snocone: We have established the proposed transaction is acceptable.
Merely negotiating price.

Cheniere Energy Inc. (LNG), the first company to win approval to export gas from the continental U.S., is considering a 50 percent expansion of capacity at its Sabine Pass terminal in Louisiana as LNG demand rises.
"When we marketed the project at Sabine Pass, clearly we had more demand than we could satisfy," Nicolas Zanen, the vice president of trading at Cheniere, said in an interview in Singapore today. "It makes sense to look at expanding to a fifth and a sixth" train for liquefying gas, he said. No timeline for enlarging the facility has been set, he said.
GAIL India Ltd. (GAIL) and BG Group Plc (BG/) are among customers that have agreed to buy liquefied natural gas from Sabine Pass. The plant may increase export capacity to 27 million metric tons from a designed 18 million ton, and first shipments are expected in late-2015. Cheniere has also begun offering fuel for its Corpus Christi, Texas, LNG project, Zanen said.
Korea Gas Corp. (036460), the world's biggest LNG-buying company, agreed in January to buy LNG from Sabine Pass based on prices at the Henry Hub, the delivery point for New York futures. The contract may help the utility buy the fuel for 30 percent cheaper than supplies from Asia, which are traditionally indexed to oil, the state-owned South Korean company said in April.
Natural gas for November delivery fell 8.5 cents to settle yesterday at $3.45 per million British thermal units on the New York Mercantile Exchange. The futures are down 4.3 percent from a year ago.
"Customers come to us and say they want to buy LNG from the U.S., they want to buy based on Henry Hub," Zanen said. "We have a good idea of what the demand is like. The U.S. gas price is very cheap, and they want to benefit from that. They want to diversify as well."

 
2012-10-25 12:37:30 PM

Mangoose: It's weird but I thought the Ohio Shale find was the biggest find of all? Was that just hype?


It's not being harvested yet... environmental concerns because something something...
That or they want the competition to get closer to exhausting their supply. But maybe I'm just a conspiracy theorist.
 
2012-10-25 01:33:16 PM

runescorpio: Mangoose: It's weird but I thought the Ohio Shale find was the biggest find of all? Was that just hype?

It's not being harvested yet... environmental concerns because something something...
That or they want the competition to get closer to exhausting their supply. But maybe I'm just a conspiracy theorist.


There are people who live there, for now.
Move 'em out and you have a nice field.

Seems that is being worked out by mortgage theft these days.
 
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