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(Telegram)   U.S. will regain position as world's top oil producer. This is a big fracking deal   (telegram.com) divider line 155
    More: Interesting, oil producers, United States, Royal Dutch Shell plc, Water pumping, IHS  
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10104 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Oct 2012 at 11:28 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-24 11:53:52 AM  
I am not inherently against fracking, but I recognize that this is a practice that conveys certain risks. There are documented cases of natural gas seepage into drinking water. There are a lot of open questions about disposing of used fracking fluids, etc.

The result is that I'm in a position where I say this: "Fracking is interesting and potentially useful, but what steps can we take to mitigate the negative externalities?" As a society, we have organized and empowered a specific collection of agencies to manage negative externalities (and provide positive ones): governments.

In a loose sense, governments achieve this goal by making rules, be they laws or regulations, and then enforcing those rules in a way that makes compliance preferable to non-compliance.

What I'm trying to say is that we've got a decent case to raise some concerns and demand tight regulation of fracking companies.
 
2012-10-24 11:54:32 AM  
Citibank forecasts U.S. production could reach 13 million to 15 million barrels per day by 2020, helping to make North America "the new Middle East."

Sweet, the troops will be home sooner than expected
 
2012-10-24 11:55:16 AM  
yeah but peak oil
 
2012-10-24 11:55:21 AM  

snocone: USA is forced to buy oil from our enimies!

/a lie


Not a lie, just not fully accurate though. The US is forced to by oil from others. Sometimes this involved buying oil from our enemies. IT hasn't ALWAYS involved buying from our enemies, but sometimes, yes, yes it has.

It says right in the article we consume 18+million barrels of oil per day. We are only producing 10+million.
We are buying about half just by numbers alone from somewhere other than us.

/oil market is global
//the idea that US oil stays in the US is absurdly naive.
 
2012-10-24 11:56:02 AM  
blah blah blah Obama
blah blah blah Romney

Fark threads are looking pretty much the same regardless of topic these days.
 
2012-10-24 11:56:09 AM  

meat0918: And the feds STILL regulate those drilling sites.


yeah, pretty low information voter right there, he seriously thinks if you are on private land you can do whatever you want?
 
2012-10-24 11:57:10 AM  

indarwinsshadow: Ashrams: And yet somehow I bet they will produce a lot of oil and refine it then ship it to China were they can use it to make products to coat with lead and use said oil again to ship it back to the US.

Then we have gone full circle and not gained a thing.

In a few years this will be our new flag.
[www.cia.gov image 453x304]

You mean Alberta's new flag. Our prime minister is set to sell one of our largest oil fields to China for $15B CDN. He's an idiot.


This dumbass does realize that the Chinese give zero shiats about polluting their own country right? They'll have no qualms farking your environment over to save 2 cents per thousand gallons in production costs.
 
2012-10-24 11:57:32 AM  
Shhhh!!!! This news will just piss off the republicans, and they'll start complaining that these facts are liberal media conspiracies to make the Right look stupid and make baby Jesus cry.
 
2012-10-24 11:58:05 AM  

t3knomanser: There are a lot of open questions about disposing of used fracking fluids, etc.


I don't think it is being used widely yet but I believe haliburton has developed a fracking material totally made from food grade liquids.
 
2012-10-24 11:59:52 AM  
This is happening in spite of Obama.

I am amazed by all these "positive" news articles and studies that seem to come out just before the election. It's like someone is intentionally releasing biased studies at a specific time to trick the American people in believing that a certain president's record is better than what it really is.
 
2012-10-24 12:03:25 PM  

evoke: This is happening in spite of Obama.

I am amazed by all these "positive" news articles and studies that seem to come out just before the election. It's like someone is intentionally releasing biased studies at a specific time to trick the American people in believing that a certain president's record is better than what it really is.


Because everything is a conspiracy designed to make you cry.
 
2012-10-24 12:03:45 PM  

littleray42: blah blah blah Obama
blah blah blah Romney

Fark threads are looking pretty much the same regardless of topic these days.


I fracking hate that a sports headline of the week was a halfassed knock on Romney. Realistically anyone who wants to run for leader of the free world probably has to start 4 yrs before the next election.
 
2012-10-24 12:04:24 PM  

GAT_00: Is that why MItt Romney said oil production is lower than it was 4 years ago?


Do you really not understand that Obama is not the line who pushed for oil on private and state lands? Obama is not responsible for all that is good. Bad enough liberals are trying to give him credit for the 09/10 federal permit increases, ignoring that those permits were started and many approved under bush as it is a multi year permit. It just makes you look ignorantly partisan trying to give Obama credit for state and private land increases.
 
2012-10-24 12:04:27 PM  
All we need now is a bunch of our young zealots to hijack airliners and fly them into Mecca.
 
GBB
2012-10-24 12:04:41 PM  

evoke: This is happening in spite of Obama.

I am amazed by all these "positive" news articles and studies that seem to come out just before the election. It's like someone is intentionally releasing biased studies at a specific time to trick the American people in believing that a certain president's record is better than what it really is.


...or worse. These reports that come out work both ways.
Americans are easily fooled. To think that the POTUS has any influence over gas prices is ridiculous, yet, we see it almost every day.
 
2012-10-24 12:04:57 PM  

Joe Blowme: "most of these rigs are on private property. They are drilling into places like the Bakken formation, which lies under parts of North Dakota and Montana.

"Had this been government land, we would likely still be awaiting drilling permits or fighting lawsuits from NGOs or outright drilling bans enacted from Congress," Mulva says.


HAHAHAH but Obama is the reason right? ALL HAIL KING OBAMA!!


I think the more important point is that Obama *isn't* the industry-crushing tyrant Mitt is trying to make him out to be.
 
2012-10-24 12:04:59 PM  

evoke: This is happening in spite of Obama.

I am amazed by all these "positive" news articles and studies that seem to come out just before the election. It's like someone is intentionally releasing biased studies at a specific time to trick the American people in believing that a certain president's record is better than what it really is.


Better put on your tinfoil undies too. I hear that gubmint spy planes are trying to target your testes to rid the world of your superior seed.
 
2012-10-24 12:07:29 PM  

oldernell: What are they going to name the lake when the bedrock is so fractured in Ohio and Pa. that the region becomes a giant sinkhole? If the footings to your house were broken like that it would be condemned.


Hell, I don't care. Not only will I have lake front property, I will be rich because of the well on my land!

But seriously, I am on the edge of the Ohio Marcellus Shale. I hope that a balance can be found between gathering the resource (and improving the economy of the area) and keeping the environment clean. The reclaimed strip mines south of me are starting to regain their natural beauty again, and they make a great place to go camping.

My parents own 500 acres on the Marcellus, they are being bombarded by leasing agencies. They have a lawyer involved, and are making sure that their rights are protected if they decide to drill on the land.
 
2012-10-24 12:08:23 PM  

evoke: I am amazed by all these "positive" news articles and studies that seem to come out just before the election. It's like someone is intentionally releasing biased studies at a specific time to trick the American people in believing that a certain president's record is better than what it really is.


Reality has a liberal bias.

growlersoftware.com
 
2012-10-24 12:09:06 PM  
I live on the Green River shale field. Here are the mailers I received just today. Multiple mailers every day telling the rubes about that damn Muslim Obama taking our jobs. My county will go about 75-percent for Romney, or as he's better known, the white guy.

farm9.staticflickr.com
 
2012-10-24 12:10:48 PM  

MyRandomName: Do you really not understand that Obama is not the line who pushed for oil on private and state lands? Obama is not responsible for all that is good. Bad enough liberals are trying to give him credit for the 09/10 federal permit increases, ignoring that those permits were started and many approved under bush as it is a multi year permit. It just makes you look ignorantly partisan trying to give Obama credit for state and private land increases.


Yeah, and Republican's saying "the price of gas has doubled since Obama took office!" is totally valid.

growlersoftware.com
 
2012-10-24 12:13:30 PM  
Guess this means all the "peak oil" proponents really WERE full of shiat huh?
 
2012-10-24 12:14:08 PM  

oldernell: What are they going to name the lake when the bedrock is so fractured in Ohio and Pa. that the region becomes a giant sinkhole? If the footings to your house were broken like that it would be condemned.


The Sandusky Hole
 
2012-10-24 12:15:45 PM  

evoke: This is happening in spite of Obama.


[Citation Needed]
 
2012-10-24 12:16:29 PM  

REO-Weedwagon: I live on the Green River shale field. Here are the mailers I received just today. Multiple mailers every day telling the rubes about that damn Muslim Obama taking our jobs. My county will go about 75-percent for Romney, or as he's better known, the white guy.

[farm9.staticflickr.com image 500x375]


Heh, I love the "pro-coal" commercials that are played around here (for both sides). I would love to know if there are some anti-coal/pro-environment commercials playing in other parts of the country.

I don't think I am going to vote for President this election. Just state and local issues/candidates.
 
2012-10-24 12:17:35 PM  
FTA: The increase in production hasn't translated to cheaper gasoline at the pump, and prices are expected to stay relatively high for the next few years because of growing demand for oil in developing nations and political instability in the Middle East and North Africa. 


The elimination of shipping costs alone, on that additional 9%, should result in a decrease in the price at the pump, even if world demand remains relatively high.

Yet, prices are expected to remain relatively high!

Does anyone else have a problem with this?
 
2012-10-24 12:17:40 PM  
Not trolling - enjoy your groundwater while you can. It's the next commodity.
 
2012-10-24 12:18:47 PM  

oldernell: What are they going to name the lake when the bedrock is so fractured in Ohio and Pa. that the region becomes a giant sinkhole? If the footings to your house were broken like that it would be condemned.


The Great Lake. You know, that one where the five used to be.
 
2012-10-24 12:21:48 PM  
Burr, there is anti coal sentiment here in Florida. City of Gainesville's electric utility is adding mega watts of solar, via private partnerships. They have also contracted with a company to buy power from their wood burning power plant that they are building in the area.

Coal=Bad
Wood, brought in by 100+ diesel burning trucks per day=Good
 
2012-10-24 12:23:36 PM  
They must of finished setting up the fake oil drilling set.
 
2012-10-24 12:25:10 PM  
bmadore.squarespace.com
 
2012-10-24 12:28:34 PM  
I'm okay with increased domestic drilling as long as it's done responsibly without any "The EPA is destroying the US economy whiny cr@p." Increased drilling should not, however, replace a continued pursuit of newer , cleaner energy options. Ideally, it would also be coupled with increased energy standards for most products and all vehicles as well as a hefty additional gasoline tax. I'd like to see proceeds from such a tax invested in mass transit, bike lanes, environmental clean-up, and research into alternative energy. I would like a tax heavy enough to drive the at pump price to six to eight dollars a gallon. Though harsh, I think it is the only way to get the yellow "I support the Troops" crowd on board with actions that might actually serve to help protect a few of our troops.

Yes, I would pay $8 dollars per gallon for gas to keep my son or your son from being deployed.
 
2012-10-24 12:32:25 PM  
Isn't one of the big problems with gas prices is that there's a bottle neck of sort at the refinery step, and that there hasn't really been any new refineries built in decades? Or am I way off the mark on this?
 
2012-10-24 12:32:54 PM  
OIl/Gas

Without it you wouldn't have polar fleece, $3,000 titanium mountain bikes, KEEN shoes, cell phones, the internet, etc etc

Oil/Gas isn't the ultimate answer. But it's a damn fine ingredient for making the 572 c.i. Chevy Big Block in my 1956 Chevrolet Nomad wagon roar like the ass kicker it is.

Now, don't get me wrong. Electric motors are some day going to kick internal combustion ass. Instant torque, no tranny, nearly unlimited RPM, fantastic grunt at each wheel if you put the motor there, but ...

... we're not there yet. We will be. But not yet.

Until then I'm damned glad somebody woke up to how much energy we've got right here at home and keep making hydrogen out here on the ranch.
 
2012-10-24 12:33:59 PM  
But Obama hates oil and wants us all to power our homes by riding exercycles, I thought?
 
2012-10-24 12:34:53 PM  

Wicked Chinchilla: snocone: USA is forced to buy oil from our enimies!

/a lie

Not a lie, just not fully accurate though. The US is forced to by oil from others. Sometimes this involved buying oil from our enemies. IT hasn't ALWAYS involved buying from our enemies, but sometimes, yes, yes it has.

It says right in the article we consume 18+million barrels of oil per day. We are only producing 10+million.
We are buying about half just by numbers alone from somewhere other than us.

/oil market is global
//the idea that US oil stays in the US is absurdly naive.


Not "forced" to do chiat.
But then, PROFIT is a strong force inducing criminal behavior and unending derp to cover it up and maintain the lies that society demands rather than face the truth they can't handle.
 
2012-10-24 12:35:50 PM  
FTA
"Five years ago, if I or anyone had predicted today's production growth, people would have thought we were crazy," says Jim Burkhard, head of oil markets research at IHS CERA, an energy consulting firm.

Which proves that even the experts can't predict f*ck-all about commodities.

Businesses that serve the oil industry, such as steel companies that supply drilling pipe and railroads that transport oil, aren't the only ones benefiting. Homebuilders, auto dealers and retailers in energy-producing states are also getting a lift.

Drill, Baby Drill?
 
2012-10-24 12:36:33 PM  

Modguy: Isn't one of the big problems with gas prices is that there's a bottle neck of sort at the refinery step, and that there hasn't really been any new refineries built in decades? Or am I way off the mark on this?


There is no B3 Bomber, and there is no refinery capacity shortage.
 
2012-10-24 12:39:50 PM  

BigLoser: lordjupiter: GAT_00: Is that why MItt Romney said oil production is lower than it was 4 years ago?

Romney said that because he's a lying "empty suit" representing a party that cares more about being in power than telling the truth or doing what's best for this country.

You didn't define any difference from either party there, skippy...they are all lying, empty suits whose sole purpose is to line their pockets while in office.


Sorry, "skippy" but there are differences. "Both sides do it" logical fallacy of appeal to middle ground is not valid, especially when talking about specific people. And in this case, Romney fits my description 100% while others not so much.
 
2012-10-24 12:44:04 PM  

t3knomanser: I am not inherently against fracking, but I recognize that this is a practice that conveys certain risks. There are documented cases of natural gas seepage into drinking water. There are a lot of open questions about disposing of used fracking fluids, etc.

The result is that I'm in a position where I say this: "Fracking is interesting and potentially useful, but what steps can we take to mitigate the negative externalities?" As a society, we have organized and empowered a specific collection of agencies to manage negative externalities (and provide positive ones): governments.

In a loose sense, governments achieve this goal by making rules, be they laws or regulations, and then enforcing those rules in a way that makes compliance preferable to non-compliance.

What I'm trying to say is that we've got a decent case to raise some concerns and demand tight regulation of fracking companies.


Reasonable, well thought out comments are boring. Please add more derp.
 
2012-10-24 12:44:29 PM  

StanleyPuff: Drill, Baby Drill?


That's the funny thing about the "Drill, baby drill" - it's not a viable energy policy, and current conditions prove it. Oil production in the US is the highest its been since the 90s while gas consumption is in the US is down. Yet gas prices are north of $3 a gallon. We don't have enough oil to significantly affect world oil prices.

But drilling does create jobs. "Drill, baby drill" is a jobs program.

And oil just dropped below $85/barrel as I was typing this. If current oil prices hold, gas will be $3.15 next week.
 
2012-10-24 12:46:05 PM  

snocone: There is no B3 Bomber, and there is no refinery capacity shortage.


The common argument is that price shoots up once OPEC refineries are at max capacity. But thats just OPEC
 
2012-10-24 12:47:23 PM  

ToxicMunkee: oldernell: What are they going to name the lake when the bedrock is so fractured in Ohio and Pa. that the region becomes a giant sinkhole? If the footings to your house were broken like that it would be condemned.

The Ha-Ha Hole has a nice ring to it.


I kinda like "The Arse Hole" myself.
 
2012-10-24 12:49:19 PM  

thecpt: snocone: There is no B3 Bomber, and there is no refinery capacity shortage.

The common argument is that price shoots up once OPEC refineries are at max capacity. But thats just OPEC


And OPEC is Hank Kissinger.
I'm waiting on history to decide on that.
 
2012-10-24 12:49:28 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-24 12:50:05 PM  

stampylives: oldernell: What are they going to name the lake when the bedrock is so fractured in Ohio and Pa. that the region becomes a giant sinkhole? If the footings to your house were broken like that it would be condemned.

The Great Lake. You know, that one where the five used to be.


I doubt you could do more damage to the Great Lakes bedrock than the formation of the lakes themselves did. The weight of those glaciers tipped some of the oldest rocks in the world up the surface.
 
2012-10-24 12:50:59 PM  

impaler: StanleyPuff: Drill, Baby Drill?

That's the funny thing about the "Drill, baby drill" - it's not a viable energy policy, and current conditions prove it. Oil production in the US is the highest its been since the 90s while gas consumption is in the US is down. Yet gas prices are north of $3 a gallon. We don't have enough oil to significantly affect world oil prices.

But drilling does create jobs. "Drill, baby drill" is a jobs program.

And oil just dropped below $85/barrel as I was typing this. If current oil prices hold, gas will be $3.15 next week.


I see, I predict, I prognosticate, OH, how does he do it?

Gas prices will be sweet for two weeks. Enjoy it.
 
2012-10-24 12:51:17 PM  

impaler: And oil just dropped below $85/barrel as I was typing this. If current oil prices hold, gas will be $3.15 next week.


I got it for $3.03 this morning!
 
2012-10-24 12:52:37 PM  

oldernell: What are they going to name the lake when the bedrock is so fractured in Ohio and Pa. that the region becomes a giant sinkhole? If the footings to your house were broken like that it would be condemned.


NotSureIfSerious.jpg

Maybe you know something that I do not, but there will be natural gas drilling on my families property soon and I've gotten pretty familiar with their process. It is also my understanding that oil drilling is very similar to gas drilling.

They punch one hole (can vary between 14" and 96" diameter) in the ground and then go horizontal, in "wagon wheel" fashion, for approximately 2,600' in 8 equally spaced directions (radially). If they decided to honeycomb the landscape with pumping rigs, that would mean there is a hole every 5,200 feet.

Were you implying that these equally spaced holes, a mile apart, would cause bedrock to become unstable? Is the oil drilling much more intrusive than natural gas?
 
2012-10-24 12:54:48 PM  
Now is the time to pre-purchase gas, if you can.
Wonder what the surge in sales will amount to?
Can't be that many contracts at sub $3 left, can there?
 
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