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(boeing.com)   Boeing's CHAMP missile uses radio waves to remotely disable PCs as it flies by   (boeing.com) divider line 65
    More: Interesting, radio waves, Boeing, Air Force Research Laboratory, High-powered Advanced Missile Project, missiles, collateral damage, microwaves  
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3025 clicks; posted to Geek » on 24 Oct 2012 at 10:02 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-24 09:03:30 AM  
Just one more reason to use a Mac.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-10-24 09:04:58 AM  
They need a missile for that?
 
2012-10-24 09:42:20 AM  
They should've loaded Linux.
 
2012-10-24 10:06:40 AM  
In related news, cage shielding for PC cases is invented.
 
2012-10-24 10:10:38 AM  
Whoa... How many of those did we have in 1916?
 
2012-10-24 10:13:14 AM  
Just what we need to knock out the Taliban's data centers.

/yeah yeah, prepare for the next war not the current war
 
2012-10-24 10:14:21 AM  
You just KNOW that the RIAA wants a couple thousand of these.
 
2012-10-24 10:15:13 AM  

Vodka Zombie: Whoa... How many of those did we have in 1916?


Way more than we have today. Thanks for nothing Fartbongo!
 
2012-10-24 10:18:51 AM  

Jubeebee: Just what we need to knock out the Taliban's data centers.

/yeah yeah, prepare for the next war not the current war


The Taliban? Probably not. Iran? Well.....
 
2012-10-24 10:21:04 AM  
Yeah, did they test if a regular old farraday cage would be an effective counter to this?
 
2012-10-24 10:21:26 AM  

Jubeebee: Taliban's data centers


An amusing photoshop challenge.
 
2012-10-24 10:22:15 AM  
That CD being ejected is just farking awesome.
 
2012-10-24 10:24:39 AM  

Grither: Yeah, did they test if a regular old farraday cage would be an effective counter to this?


Why would they do that? They're trying to sell the things. Who cares if they work, if they're easily defeated, or if they'll ever be deployed? We got contracts to get, here.
 
2012-10-24 10:25:15 AM  
Would a farraday cage of some sort work against this type of microwave radiation?
 
2012-10-24 10:26:39 AM  
24.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-10-24 10:28:36 AM  

flucto: Jubeebee: Taliban's data centers

An amusing photoshop challenge.


www.niemanlab.org
 
2012-10-24 10:40:16 AM  
That's ridicu****LOST CARRIER****
 
2012-10-24 10:42:12 AM  
Can some expert explain the impact of this? What stops me from just turning my computer back on and resuming work? Does it wipe hard drives?
 
2012-10-24 10:45:58 AM  

Antimatter: In related news, cage shielding for PC cases is invented.


Microwave ovens have special shields to prevent mw radiation from escaping. I guess it works the other way around too.

www.azoft.com
 
2012-10-24 10:47:05 AM  
0:48 -- the voiceover says out loud: "Fade to black."

O_o

Is he related to this guy?
 
2012-10-24 10:53:11 AM  
Could they use this technology to kill those THUMP-THUMP-THUMP car stereos?
 
2012-10-24 10:57:08 AM  

stealthd: Can some expert explain the impact of this? What stops me from just turning my computer back on and resuming work? Does it wipe hard drives?


I think it damages the circuitry, the microwaves induce current in the delicate tracing on chips and burns them out.
 
2012-10-24 10:57:49 AM  

Antimatter: In related news, cage shielding for PC cases is invented.


Which will do no good in this attack. FTA:"CHAMP had successfully knocked out the computer and electrical systems in the target building."

stealthd: What stops me from just turning my computer back on and resuming work?


For one thing, there's no power. And once power comes back on, your electronics have already been destroyed. Your PC is now a quite useful boat anchor. 

This looks like a much more efficient version of an EMP.
 
2012-10-24 11:03:35 AM  
To clarify, any Faraday cage would indeed protect the computer itself. But it won't bring that computer power if the power is knocked out. So you're left with having to have a Faradayed computer system, and a Faradayed power generation system in order to withstand the attack. Possible, yes, but certainly no trivial thing to accomplish.
 
2012-10-24 11:16:14 AM  

midigod: Antimatter: In related news, cage shielding for PC cases is invented.

Which will do no good in this attack. FTA:"CHAMP had successfully knocked out the computer and electrical systems in the target building."

stealthd: What stops me from just turning my computer back on and resuming work?

For one thing, there's no power. And once power comes back on, your electronics have already been destroyed. Your PC is now a quite useful boat anchor. 

This looks like a much more efficient version of an EMP.


Yep. This is a very high power microwave pulse that induces a large (1000V+ IIRC) surge onto both the electrical grid, and any equipment in the vicinity that's not shielded. My guess would also be that the pulse's rate of rise is steep enough (around 1-2nS) that it will push right through your APC UPS/surge protector.
If you had everything in a true faraday cage, and had some extensive shielding, you probably could protect against this, but I think it's aimed more towards public utilities, and communications systems (think about how we blew up the power plants and phone companies in Iraq before we invaded).
These entities don't have the funding to shield all of their equipment against EMP. Most governments don't either.
 
2012-10-24 11:19:53 AM  
Umm does anyone think the local PD would want one of these anytime someone is taking a vid of police doing what they do best?
 
2012-10-24 11:35:53 AM  

stealthd: Can some expert explain the impact of this? What stops me from just turning my computer back on and resuming work? Does it wipe hard drives?


Not an expert, but how long does a nuclear power plant need to go offline before hell is unleashed?
 
2012-10-24 11:38:59 AM  

the8re: stealthd: Can some expert explain the impact of this? What stops me from just turning my computer back on and resuming work? Does it wipe hard drives?

Not an expert, but how long does a nuclear power plant need to go offline before hell is unleashed?


Fukushima says about 5 days.
 
2012-10-24 11:39:34 AM  
Fubegra - I've pondered the idea of a microwave laser, a maser, if you will, for just such a usage. Thud, Thud, Thud, silence...
 
2012-10-24 11:43:50 AM  
So we track the the sales on ferrite cores and arrest them for being terrorists?
 
2012-10-24 11:46:57 AM  
 
2012-10-24 11:53:05 AM  

lectos: So we track the the sales on ferrite cores and arrest them for being terrorists?


Ferrite cores?

i2.crtcdn1.net

// Hot
 
2012-10-24 12:11:10 PM  
So what's keeping someone from jury-rigging something similar up, and using it as a way to bring down businesses (like in Fight Club, except without the messy explosives)?

I could see someone buying a scrap magnetron from a radar dish, hooking up a bunch of ultracapacitors, putting it all in a truck or van, and setting it off next to a power transformer in a downtown area.
 
2012-10-24 12:12:43 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: This device complies with Part 15 of the FCC Rules. Operation is subject to the following two conditions: (1) this device may not cause harmful interference, and (2) this device must accept any interference received, including interference that may cause undesired operation. 

/move along citizen


If sticking a PC in a faraday cage is illegal due to the FCC rules then I know a whole place full of PCs in faraday cages. Basically any radio astronomy observatory....
I went to the Green Bank WV one a few months ago and they had all of their control room electronics sealed in a gigantic faraday cage. The microwave in the office was doubly sealed and consequently heats faster than normal. They sealed the electronics because anything they emit would be picked up by the radio telescope. They're able to detect shorting out electric blankets from 10 miles away.
 
2012-10-24 12:12:49 PM  

DupeOfURL: Fubegra - I've pondered the idea of a microwave laser, a maser, if you will, for just such a usage. Thud, Thud, Thud, silence...


So would that work by sending an EMP into the audio system's electronics, or would it just boil the skin off of the driver?
 
2012-10-24 12:18:14 PM  
Is this part of some sort of wacky cross promotion with NBC's Revolution?
 
2012-10-24 12:18:50 PM  

Jim DiGriz: So what's keeping someone from jury-rigging something similar up, and using it as a way to bring down businesses (like in Fight Club, except without the messy explosives)?

I could see someone buying a scrap magnetron from a radar dish, hooking up a bunch of ultracapacitors, putting it all in a truck or van, and setting it off next to a power transformer in a downtown area.


Nothing's stopping them at all, and the tech's been known and available for fifty years. The more difficult issue has been creating the EMP without the accompanying nuclear blast. The scene in Ocean's Eleven isn't too far-fetched, except that Don Cheadle's character almost certainly would have been killed.
 
2012-10-24 12:19:26 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: this device must accept any interference received, including interference that may cause undesired operation.


Part 2 just means that users of the device have to legal recourse to stop the interference. On the flip side, users of devices that comply with part 97 have legal recourse if you interfere with their devices. It's all about who pays to play.
 
2012-10-24 12:22:11 PM  
That should say no. not to. users of part 15 compliant devices have no right to tell other people to stop doing something that interferes with that device.
 
2012-10-24 12:23:04 PM  

queezyweezel: These entities don't have the funding to shield all of their equipment against EMP. Most governments don't either.


Any governments we would be thinking about using this against would. The technology to defend against this sort of attack has been around since the 50s and is readily understood.
 
2012-10-24 12:24:11 PM  

midigod: To clarify, any Faraday cage would indeed protect the computer itself. But it won't bring that computer power if the power is knocked out. So you're left with having to have a Faradayed computer system, and a Faradayed power generation system in order to withstand the attack. Possible, yes, but certainly no trivial thing to accomplish.


Maybe not for your own house, but that sounds remarkably trivial as a precautionary measure for any kind of strategic data center. Especially compared to designing a missile in the first place. Do you really think this is something technically difficult for a country like Iran to implement?
 
2012-10-24 12:27:03 PM  

Jim DiGriz: So what's keeping someone from jury-rigging something similar up, and using it as a way to bring down businesses (like in Fight Club, except without the messy explosives)?

I could see someone buying a scrap magnetron from a radar dish, hooking up a bunch of ultracapacitors, putting it all in a truck or van, and setting it off next to a power transformer in a downtown area.


Should we expect something like this to happen near Fort Knox in the near future, Mr. "Slippery" Jim DiGriz?
 
2012-10-24 12:35:50 PM  

Leeds: Would a farraday cage of some sort work against this type of microwave radiation?


Yes, but it is WAY easier said than done, and sometimes you design for immunity rather than try to shield it.

This is an engineering discipline of its own. You can read In Compliance magazine (just one magazine - there are others) articles online if interested. It's interesting stuff, unless you are normal. Then it is really kind of boring...
 
2012-10-24 12:37:57 PM  

StrangeQ: queezyweezel: These entities don't have the funding to shield all of their equipment against EMP. Most governments don't either.

Any governments we would be thinking about using this against would. The technology to defend against this sort of attack has been around since the 50s and is readily understood.


You may or may not be surprised by the sheer number of US government facilities that have absolutely no RF shielding in place. Take that down to the local government level, and it's very close to zero. everyone understands it, but up until now, there has been very little chance of a successful EMP attack.
 
2012-10-24 12:59:08 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: This device complies with Part 15 of the FCC Rules. Operation is subject to the following two conditions: (1) this device may not cause harmful interference, and (2) this device must accept any interference received, including interference that may cause undesired operation. 

/move along citizen


Having dealt with UL, CE and FCC, I have to point out that your quote is out of context.

The device has to be able to receive unwanted interference without causing damage to anything. It doesn't speak at all to the concept that it cannot be put somewhere where it won't receive interference.

That would be like buying a waterproof watch and then thinking that it's illegal to use it except when it's submerged in water...
 
2012-10-24 01:44:47 PM  

Leeds: Having dealt with UL, CE and FCC, I have to point out that your quote is out of context.

The device has to be able to receive unwanted interference without causing damage to anything. It doesn't speak at all to the concept that it cannot be put somewhere where it won't receive interference.


Yeah, I've seen people explain this as you have, however, that's not what it actually says. As far as the English language goes, it means that your device must be able to be disrupted via interference. They really should replace the word "accept" with something closer to "tolerate", to get closer to your meaning.
 
2012-10-24 02:00:36 PM  
If you're looking for a good read - the Congressional report of the danger of a large scale EMP attack:
http://www.empcommission.org/

www.shtfblog.com

www.sldinfo.com
 
2012-10-24 02:04:54 PM  
Anyone else laugh out loud at the video when the cd goes flying out of the drive when the power is cut. 37 seconds in...
 
2012-10-24 02:14:27 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Leeds: Having dealt with UL, CE and FCC, I have to point out that your quote is out of context.

The device has to be able to receive unwanted interference without causing damage to anything. It doesn't speak at all to the concept that it cannot be put somewhere where it won't receive interference.

Yeah, I've seen people explain this as you have, however, that's not what it actually says. As far as the English language goes, it means that your device must be able to be disrupted via interference. They really should replace the word "accept" with something closer to "tolerate", to get closer to your meaning.


I'm another UL/ETL/CSA/FCC/CE nerd. That's just what you get when things are done by committee. The guy who raised his hand and said "that's worded pretty poorly" got over-ruled by the part of the group that said "fark it, we're doing Chinese today. Are you in?".
 
2012-10-24 02:17:10 PM  

queezyweezel: StrangeQ: queezyweezel: These entities don't have the funding to shield all of their equipment against EMP. Most governments don't either.

Any governments we would be thinking about using this against would. The technology to defend against this sort of attack has been around since the 50s and is readily understood.

You may or may not be surprised by the sheer number of US government facilities that have absolutely no RF shielding in place. Take that down to the local government level, and it's very close to zero. everyone understands it, but up until now, there has been very little chance of a successful EMP attack.


I would not, because I've worked for several of them. The ones that matter, do. As do much of our deployable military communications systems. Sure, my office email server might get knocked out, but the communications network for those tasked with responding to such an attack would be up and running just fine. Of course it is pure speculation, but it seems like it would be foolish to assume that any technologically first world enemy we would potentially face would not be protected the same.
 
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