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(Omaha World Herald)   American Family Insurance drops police officer from their homeowners insurance because they think the fact he lives with his partner, a trained police dog, is "too risky"   (omaha.com) divider line 73
    More: Asinine, American Family Insurance, homeowners insurance, police officers, police dogs  
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4886 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Oct 2012 at 11:57 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-24 01:14:51 PM  

kumanoki: Please note that American Family Insurance is in no way related to American Family Life Assurance Company. Carry on.


Qvack!
Qvack!
 
2012-10-24 01:16:47 PM  
Dogs trained as weapons have no business in a residential home. There are a lot of accounts of unprovoked Police dog attacks, I don't blame the insurance company for this policy.

Police dog mauls woman after mistaking blanket for attack sleeve
Massachusetts town shuts down K9 unit after 3 unprovoked attacks
Police dog mauls leashed dog and owner
Police dog attacks mailman
 
2012-10-24 01:35:21 PM  

Kif_D: Dogs trained as weapons have no business in a residential home. There are a lot of accounts of unprovoked Police dog attacks, I don't blame the insurance company for this policy.

Police dog mauls woman after mistaking blanket for attack sleeve
Massachusetts town shuts down K9 unit after 3 unprovoked attacks
Police dog mauls leashed dog and owner
Police dog attacks mailman


So what is the actual rate of attacks by police dogs? Four anecdotes don't prove that police dogs are any more likely to attack someone unprovoked than any other dog.

And just how do you square the insurance companies decision with the facts that the dog didn't legally belong to the homeowner, and the dogs legal owner had separate liability coverage?

Finally, do you really think keeping police dogs isolated from their handlers and locked away in a kennel somewhere would do anything to help them be more sociable and less prone to attack?
 
2012-10-24 01:37:51 PM  

groppet: Cold_Sassy: Insurance companies suck because you can be a good customer for years, always pay your premiums on time, and never ever have had a claim, but God help you when you do -- they fight you tooth and nail to avoid paying anything -- which ironically is the very reason for their existence.

You have to hire a g*d-d*mn lawyer nowadays to get something you've paid for and that the insurance co. should be happy to help you with.

Fark those a-holes!

Im going through that now. On Sept 23rd a guy ran a stop sign and t-boned me. First they kept "misplacing" my car. My roomate was hurt and she ended up having to get a lawyer so he is helping her through all the formalities. Thing that sucks is the guy that hit me has the same insurance co, then when they decleared my car a total loss they told me to send my title into them and sign the back. I did that then 5 days later they call and tell me I need the lein release as well. After all the hoops I had to jump through I finally got my check on monday and my rates go up for being in an accident that I didnt cause......fark them hope my roomate takes them to the cleaners.


Guess it depends on the insurance company. It has been while but when I had State Farm and got hit by another guy who had State Farm they weren't that bad to deal with. When I got hit by someone with Allstate (they did a whopping $400 ish in damage) and they just about got out the sodium pentothol and a bright light.
 
2012-10-24 02:19:46 PM  
intawards.vo.llnwd.net

"I am a german shepard, rolling around in the intestines of your neighbors, whom I just killed."
 
2012-10-24 03:00:26 PM  

JesseL:
Finally, do you really think keeping police dogs isolated from their handlers and locked away in a kennel somewhere would do anything to help them be more sociable and less prone to attack?


Where I work, the deputies are required to maintain a "formal, distant relationship" with their dogs so that they don't become too soft towards humans. We have one deputy who obviously doesn't believe that, as his dog is approachable by anyone and gives out licks and snuggles freely. Of course, at one command from the deputy the dog goes into "work mode" and you don't want to be within 10 feet of him.

And yes, it's a Belgian Malinois.
 
2012-10-24 03:03:26 PM  

BarleyGnome: Police dogs are uncontrollable weapons.


[Citation Needed]. The one that one of my Respiratory Therapist partner's husband has is a gigantic puppy. Unless you mess with her husband. His hault word is in dutch, strangely enough.
 
2012-10-24 03:08:40 PM  

arashinogarou: Where I work, the deputies are required to maintain a "formal, distant relationship" with their dogs so that they don't become too soft towards humans.


That's horrible. 'Round these parts they're all sweeties and live with their partners/handlers. Though yes, you don't want to be around them if a command is spoken. Hell, they (my local PD) even completely fired one K9 officer who was found to have abused his K9 partner. No reprimand, no pension, just gone.
 
2012-10-24 03:14:44 PM  

BronyMedic: BarleyGnome: Police dogs are uncontrollable weapons.

[Citation Needed]. The one that one of my Respiratory Therapist partner's husband has is a gigantic puppy. Unless you mess with her husband. His hault word is in dutch, strangely enough.


Not strange at all. Train them to attack or halt in non-English, and there is less chance that a bad guy will be able to give the command properly.
 
2012-10-24 03:14:54 PM  

arashinogarou: Of course, at one command from the deputy the dog goes into "work mode" and you don't want to be within 10 feet of him.


Chopper! Sic Balls!
 
2012-10-24 03:36:05 PM  

arashinogarou: Where I work, the deputies are required to maintain a "formal, distant relationship" with their dogs so that they don't become too soft towards humans. We have one deputy who obviously doesn't believe that, as his dog is approachable by anyone and gives out licks and snuggles freely. Of course, at one command from the deputy the dog goes into "work mode" and you don't want to be within 10 feet of him.


Really? I've found this is actually the way around my part they're treated.

CapeFearCadaver: That's horrible. 'Round these parts they're all sweeties and live with their partners/handlers. Though yes, you don't want to be around them if a command is spoken. Hell, they (my local PD) even completely fired one K9 officer who was found to have abused his K9 partner. No reprimand, no pension, just gone.


Every one I've encountered has been well trained and behaved. They have an in-house trainer that's nationally certified that does it for our local sherriff department, and the dogs actually live with the deputy's family when off duty.

K9 officers get INCREDIBLY attached to their animals, and so do their families.
 
2012-10-24 03:53:06 PM  

BronyMedic: Every one I've encountered has been well trained and behaved. They have an in-house trainer that's nationally certified that does it for our local sherriff department, and the dogs actually live with the deputy's family when off duty.

K9 officers get INCREDIBLY attached to their animals, and so do their families.


Same here. The couple that I had the pleasure of really getting to know seemed to understand the difference between on-duty and off-duty, as well. To the point where they'd jump up on me (gently) when greeting. And even the male became close friends with my dog, who is still intact. Most male dogs do not like my boy for that reason alone.
 
2012-10-24 03:57:59 PM  

KrustyKitten: That dog is not a pet and does not belong to the officer. Even if the agent has asked those questions, the correct answer would have been "no". Better for the agent/company to be asking if any animals are owned by the insured OR kept on the residence premises.

You don't feel that the deputy has a point - that the dog is not owned by him but by the county and therefore liability for the dog is covered by the county? That proving to his insurance carrier that they don't have liability exposure due to the dogs actions wouldn't be enough to have them overturn their decision?


At first I was on the officer's side and thought this exact same thing. But then I got to thinking, if there was an incident in the home, do you think the city's insurance company wouldn't try their damnedest to argue that the police dog wasn't operating as a police dog at the time of the "incident" but was, instead, a pet, in an attempt to shove the liability off onto the officer and his insurance company? Just because an insurance company says one thing when there isn't a problem doesn't mean that's the line they'll take when the shiat hits the fan.
 
2012-10-24 04:30:41 PM  
Those are the insurance company rules, and ignorance of the rules is no excuse.

/Here's a donut. Now quit your whining.
 
2012-10-24 04:39:40 PM  

rugman11: KrustyKitten: That dog is not a pet and does not belong to the officer. Even if the agent has asked those questions, the correct answer would have been "no". Better for the agent/company to be asking if any animals are owned by the insured OR kept on the residence premises.

You don't feel that the deputy has a point - that the dog is not owned by him but by the county and therefore liability for the dog is covered by the county? That proving to his insurance carrier that they don't have liability exposure due to the dogs actions wouldn't be enough to have them overturn their decision?

At first I was on the officer's side and thought this exact same thing. But then I got to thinking, if there was an incident in the home, do you think the city's insurance company wouldn't try their damnedest to argue that the police dog wasn't operating as a police dog at the time of the "incident" but was, instead, a pet, in an attempt to shove the liability off onto the officer and his insurance company? Just because an insurance company says one thing when there isn't a problem doesn't mean that's the line they'll take when the shiat hits the fan.


Yes and I agree with you. Someone earlier up mentioned that once a bite happens and lawyers get involved, of course they are going to name the homeowners insurance company along with whatever carrier is covering liability for the dog on behalf of the county. Pretty much once a kid gets his face bitten off either everyone pays the claimant or everyone pays to defend themeselves against the suit. The homeowners insurance could state that the primary coverage should not fall on them but they are still the assholes who "deny a claim for a mangled child" and no one likes that either.
 
2012-10-24 05:55:33 PM  

The Southern Logic Company: I hope the entire FOP in Omaha drops this insurer and makes national news over this. I wonder how many K9 units have American Family as their insurer....

Farking absurd. One of my good friends is a K9 officer in Dekalb County and his dog is the nicest and best behaved German Shepherd I have ever seen.....unless he gives the attack command. No reason to suddenly drop him from insurance.


Oh, yeah, ya see, what you've got there is a MUTHERFARKING ATTACK DOG! You don't think that is going to raise the premiums a bit?
 
2012-10-24 05:59:59 PM  
Good friend of mine is a local LEO and K9 handler. His K9 retired and the department offered him to my friend as FOREVER HOME they both love each other. Farkin insurance for a farkin police dog owned by the handler made no difference. He cant afford an extra 20K a year in insurance payments to keep his dog. Farkin shameful.
 
2012-10-24 06:17:44 PM  
USAA

hands down, the best.
 
2012-10-24 07:47:18 PM  

BronyMedic: BarleyGnome: Police dogs are uncontrollable weapons.

[Citation Needed]. The one that one of my Respiratory Therapist partner's husband has is a gigantic puppy. Unless you mess with her husband. His hault word is in dutch, strangely enough.


I know a couple of K-9 cops, one had his dog trained in Dutch commands and the other was in Czech. Its pretty cool because they would give the commands in English and the dog would stare at him like he was an idiot. However, they gave the work command in the language they were trained in and it was complete 180!
 
2012-10-24 10:10:15 PM  
I have to agree with the ins company. When I was a kid I had a neighbor that was a police officer with a police dog. That dog was evil and would have killed us kids if he could have got through the fence. Police dogs are trained to maul people and do NOT belong in residential neighborhoods . When the police department is finished with them they need to be put to sleep. They not pets they are weapons.
 
2012-10-24 10:30:34 PM  

SL5M7: I have to agree with the ins company. When I was a kid I had a neighbor that was a police officer with a police dog. That dog was evil and would have killed us kids if he could have got through the fence. Police dogs are trained to maul people and do NOT belong in residential neighborhoods . When the police department is finished with them they need to be put to sleep. They not pets they are weapons.


THIS. The Military doesn't let their titanium fanged Cujos on bath salts go home with their handlers, much less retire in some subdivision.

I AM a dog lover, have almost always had one, but these beasts are NOT your run of the mill pound puppies.
 
2012-10-25 02:05:41 AM  
JesseL So what is the actual rate of attacks by police dogs? Four anecdotes don't prove that police dogs are any more likely to attack someone unprovoked than any other dog.

I wouldn't classify those as anecdotes, and there are many, many more cases where police dogs turn on bystanders, other officers, and even trainers. The rate for unprovoked? As far as I know there are no studies. The only fact I know is these dogs are specifically trained to attack humans, and common sense says a trained attack dog will be more aggressive in their attack and do more damage than an untrained dog.

JesseL And just how do you square the insurance companies decision with the facts that the dog didn't legally belong to the homeowner, and the dogs legal owner had separate liability coverage?

Because the insurance company will still be named in the lawsuit and on the hook for the damages. See also posts by KrustyKitten and rugman11.

JesseL Finally, do you really think keeping police dogs isolated from their handlers and locked away in a kennel somewhere would do anything to help them be more sociable and less prone to attack?

Hrm, two questions rolled into one... Obviously a dog locked in a kennel is less prone to attack. No the dog would not be more sociable. It is my opinion that if you want a social dog, it should not be trained to attack. It is also my opinion that attack dogs have little to no business in civilized law enforcement. Dogs can and will rip muscles and tendons from the bone and cause permanent disfigurement. An animal that is trained to do so is not something I want living in my neighborhood. I also don't want to rely on an obscure word in a foreign language spoken by one person for it to back off.

// I found this to be relevant (NSFW dog bite pictures) Figures received by King from the Office of the Police Complaint Commissioner show that police-dog bites account for almost half of the 346 "reportable injuries", or police-related incidents, requiring medical treatment, between March 31, 2010, and January 17, 2012, in B.C.
 
2012-10-25 07:55:34 AM  
Perhaps this is why SWAT teams routinely shoot family pets on raids... they know from first-hand experience what a canine can do to a human (or a police officer).
 
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