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(Google)   163 million workers will see a tax increase in January when the temporary reduction in Social Security taxes expires. Wait, there are still 163 million Americans who have jobs?   (google.com) divider line 41
    More: Obvious, social security  
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743 clicks; posted to Business » on 24 Oct 2012 at 12:26 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-24 11:18:27 AM
Good, Americans from all walks of life need to realize that taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society.
 
2012-10-24 12:04:16 PM

WTF Indeed: Good, Americans from all walks of life need to realize that taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society.


So the US wasn't civilized until 1913?
 
2012-10-24 12:26:56 PM

WTF Indeed: Good, Americans from all walks of life need to realize that taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society.

 
2012-10-24 12:30:35 PM
Social security was already in trouble before this cut in FICA. I understand the Keynesian rationale for it while the economy was still in free fall, but now that things are starting to improve need to let it expire. Also, we should gradually raise the rate to keep SS solvent for the long term.
 
2012-10-24 12:31:01 PM

WTF Indeed: Good, Americans from all walks of life need to realize that taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society.


Dumbass. Americans don't walk anywhere.

/and they all drive like ~this~
 
2012-10-24 12:31:25 PM

minoridiot: WTF Indeed: Good, Americans from all walks of life need to realize that taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society.

So the US wasn't civilized until 1913?


Not really, not by the standards we'd considered civilized today. I certainly wouldn't want to go back to those days.
 
2012-10-24 12:34:44 PM
It was only $19 for most people per paycheck. I don't think it will hurt or help. It didn't help when they cut it.
 
2012-10-24 12:38:21 PM
Good, Americans from all walks of life need to realize that taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society.

It would be better if Americans from all walks of life realized that stupid talking points that originally came from stupid people and continue to come out of the mouths of different stupid people are stupid.
 
2012-10-24 12:43:55 PM

bdub77: WTF Indeed: Good, Americans from all walks of life need to realize that taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society.

 
2012-10-24 01:07:24 PM

Critch: minoridiot: WTF Indeed: Good, Americans from all walks of life need to realize that taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society.

So the US wasn't civilized until 1913?

Not really, not by the standards we'd considered civilized today. I certainly wouldn't want to go back to those days.


Exactly, the "good ole days" when people "took care of their own" never actually existed. Before social security malnutrition in the elderly was endemic.
 
2012-10-24 01:14:32 PM

Critch: minoridiot: WTF Indeed: Good, Americans from all walks of life need to realize that taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society.

So the US wasn't civilized until 1913?

Not really, not by the standards we'd considered civilized today. I certainly wouldn't want to go back to those days.


It's good to know that civilization started in the 20th century. Now, I can finally go back to scratching out all that useless information in the history books about the Greeks and Romans.
 
2012-10-24 01:18:57 PM

dforkus: Exactly, the "good ole days" when people "took care of their own" never actually existed.


Next thing you'll tell me is that the idealized 1950s America was nothing like the baby boomers remember it to be.
 
2012-10-24 01:22:55 PM
Expire the cut, then pass a law stating that every two years, there needs to be a statistical analysis of the solvency of Social Security focused on a 15 year forward view. If, using the current level of taxation, Social Security would not be fully funded 15 years down the line, the rate gets raised (equally on individuals and employers) to a rate that would make it solvent at that point. This keeps us funding SS at a level that will account for economic downturns, and builds in a buffer during economic upswings.

Medicare should be taxed using the same metric. Well, really Medicare should be extended to cover everyone as a single-payer insurance solution (since it's more efficient than any private insurer), but since that's not an option until we become more civilized, we should at least agree that Medicare should be funded on a continuing basis at a level that protects against recessions and other economic crises.
 
2012-10-24 01:30:35 PM

minoridiot: WTF Indeed: Good, Americans from all walks of life need to realize that taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society.

So the US wasn't civilized until 1913?


No, it was not. It still isn't completely civilized, but Unions, Family and Children Services, civil rights, have brought it a long way. The final push to being a civilized society will be universal health care, universal child care, universal housing, and the acknowledgement that marriage contracts should be honored between any consulting adults who wish to enter into that state, and yes that definition includes more than two consenting adults in a marriage.
 
2012-10-24 01:31:58 PM

pkellmey: Critch: minoridiot: WTF Indeed: Good, Americans from all walks of life need to realize that taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society.

So the US wasn't civilized until 1913?

Not really, not by the standards we'd considered civilized today. I certainly wouldn't want to go back to those days.

It's good to know that civilization started in the 20th century. Now, I can finally go back to scratching out all that useless information in the history books about the Greeks and Romans.


*sigh* Apparently school is wasted on you. Civilization and being civilized are actually two distinct ideas. Maybe you should study it out?
 
2012-10-24 01:33:03 PM
Great there goes my winter in St. Thomas.
 
2012-10-24 01:42:41 PM
No, it was not. It still isn't completely civilized, but Unions, Family and Children Services, civil rights, have brought it a long way. The final push to being a civilized society will be universal health care, universal child care, universal housing, and the acknowledgement that marriage contracts should be honored between any consulting adults who wish to enter into that state, and yes that definition includes more than two consenting adults in a marriage.

Glad to know that society won't be "civilized" until the things that YOU WANT are given to you for free. Funny how that works out....
 
2012-10-24 01:49:51 PM

Why Would I Read the Article: No, it was not. It still isn't completely civilized, but Unions, Family and Children Services, civil rights, have brought it a long way. The final push to being a civilized society will be universal health care, universal child care, universal housing, and the acknowledgement that marriage contracts should be honored between any consulting adults who wish to enter into that state, and yes that definition includes more than two consenting adults in a marriage.

Glad to know that society won't be "civilized" until the things that YOU WANT are given to you for free. Funny how that works out....


Allowing less than 40% of adult citizens to vote, the prevalence of Jim Crow and the KKK having a powerful role in government doesn't really match up with current expectations of civility. A dash of absolute corruption in government that makes Nixon look like a saint and you throw in child labor, widespread illiteracy and endemic malnutrition among young and old alike for good measure...
 
2012-10-24 02:02:51 PM

minoridiot: WTF Indeed: Good, Americans from all walks of life need to realize that taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society.

So the US wasn't civilized until 1913?


The Federal Government had taxes before 1913. Mostly import duties but a few failed income taxes that were declared unconstitutional.
 
2012-10-24 02:21:52 PM

Slaves2Darkness: pkellmey: Critch: minoridiot: WTF Indeed: Good, Americans from all walks of life need to realize that taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society.

So the US wasn't civilized until 1913?

Not really, not by the standards we'd considered civilized today. I certainly wouldn't want to go back to those days.

It's good to know that civilization started in the 20th century. Now, I can finally go back to scratching out all that useless information in the history books about the Greeks and Romans.

*sigh* Apparently school is wasted on you. Civilization and being civilized are actually two distinct ideas. Maybe you should study it out?


The dictionary wants to have a word with you.
 
2012-10-24 02:23:05 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: Also, we should gradually raise the rate raise the retirement age to keep SS solvent for the long term.


WTF is it with you guys and taxes? Do you all not work?
 
2012-10-24 02:48:54 PM
I don't have a problem with taxes.
I also don't have a problem with social security.

I have a problem with stupidity. And sadly, stupidity is deep-rooted in our taxation system and social security system.

I'll also add that I've lived in a few different states (with very different tax rates) and worked professionally in two different countries (with very different tax rates). What is really interesting; is that there is virtually no difference in the amount, or quality, of the social programs provided with those taxes.

*That's* retarded.

No seriously - you can go from a place with 0% sales tax to a place with 21% VAT on purchases - and guess what? Not a damn bit of difference in what you actually get with those tax dollars. I don't know how it works - but it's absolutely 100% true, in my experiences.

That and social security benefits should have been adjusted to keep pace with the American life expectancy.
 
2012-10-24 02:55:28 PM
Social security tax is one of the most regressive taxes in existence. Taxpayers start paying it from the very first dollar of FICA wages, everyone pays the same rate, but once it hits $110k, then it goes away. So someone earning a salary of $5 million a year pays the same amount of dollars (and a much lower percentage of his salary) into the social security system as some guy making $110,100/year. And the store clerk earning $8.50/hour pays the same percentage of his salary as a guy earning $100,000/year. Does that sound fair? C'mon Fark liberals, where's the outrage?
 
2012-10-24 03:05:03 PM

Atomic Spunk: Social security tax is one of the most regressive taxes in existence. Taxpayers start paying it from the very first dollar of FICA wages, everyone pays the same rate, but once it hits $110k, then it goes away. So someone earning a salary of $5 million a year pays the same amount of dollars (and a much lower percentage of his salary) into the social security system as some guy making $110,100/year. And the store clerk earning $8.50/hour pays the same percentage of his salary as a guy earning $100,000/year. Does that sound fair? C'mon Fark liberals, where's the outrage?


It allows us to pretend the system isn't welfare for people who lack either the self discipline or the wherewithall to save. That's more valuable to the working class than the dollars the rich could provide.
 
2012-10-24 03:06:03 PM

minoridiot: WTF Indeed: Good, Americans from all walks of life need to realize that taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society.

So the US wasn't civilized until 1913?


Good one. Would be an even more effective zinger if the first tax in US citizens wasn't implemented in 1781.
 
2012-10-24 03:27:12 PM

pkellmey: Slaves2Darkness: pkellmey: Critch: minoridiot: WTF Indeed: Good, Americans from all walks of life need to realize that taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society.

So the US wasn't civilized until 1913?

Not really, not by the standards we'd considered civilized today. I certainly wouldn't want to go back to those days.

It's good to know that civilization started in the 20th century. Now, I can finally go back to scratching out all that useless information in the history books about the Greeks and Romans.

*sigh* Apparently school is wasted on you. Civilization and being civilized are actually two distinct ideas. Maybe you should study it out?

The dictionary wants to have a word with you.


Okay:

civilized past participle, past tense of civ·i·lize (Verb)
Verb:
Bring (a place or people) to a stage of social, cultural, and moral development considered to be more advanced: "a civilized society".
Polite and well-mannered.

civ·i·li·za·tion/ˌsivələˈzāSHən/
Noun:
The most advanced stage of human social development and organization.
The process by which a society or place reaches this stage.

Do you see the difference between being civilized and a civilization? No? In 1913 the US had a civilization, i.e. a stage of human social development, but it was not polite or well-mannered and the US civilization in 2012 is considered more civilized. We hope the US civilization of 2113 will be more civilized than the US civilization of 2012.

See the difference?
 
2012-10-24 04:15:03 PM
I'm sure some of you a wondering, if only we could somehow go back and Drone them civilized.
 
2012-10-24 04:23:15 PM
Good. The cuts in SS taxes were temporary and have achieved their intended purpose. Now it's time to allow Bush's "temporary" tax cuts to expire as well.
 
2012-10-24 05:01:49 PM

rumpelstiltskin: Atomic Spunk: Social security tax is one of the most regressive taxes in existence. Taxpayers start paying it from the very first dollar of FICA wages, everyone pays the same rate, but once it hits $110k, then it goes away. So someone earning a salary of $5 million a year pays the same amount of dollars (and a much lower percentage of his salary) into the social security system as some guy making $110,100/year. And the store clerk earning $8.50/hour pays the same percentage of his salary as a guy earning $100,000/year. Does that sound fair? C'mon Fark liberals, where's the outrage?

It allows us to pretend the system isn't welfare for people who lack either the self discipline or the wherewithall to save. That's more valuable to the working class than the dollars the rich could provide.


The two ideas don't have to be mutually exclusive. It's possible to extract more social security tax from those with very high incomes while still allowing it to be our country's "welfare system".

Why aren't people asking for lifting the income-based cap on social security tax like it works for medicare? Why aren't people demanding increasing marginal rates for social security tax like income tax? Drew Brees, who I believe is the highest paid player in football, will pay the same amount of social security tax this year that I do. And as a percentage of his salary, he's paying just a smidgen of what a greeter at Wal-Mart pays per year.

I'm not saying that we should remove the income cap for social security tax, or that we should implement an increasing marginal rate for it, but it seems that for all the outrage about the wealthy not paying their "fair share" in taxes (whatever that is), one of the most obvious targets is all but ignored.
 
2012-10-24 05:07:54 PM
Perhaps we should make it so the bottom 47% of wage earners don't pay this tax either. Then they'll have absolutely no skin in the game.
 
2012-10-24 07:18:16 PM

Slaves2Darkness: pkellmey: Slaves2Darkness: pkellmey: Critch: minoridiot: WTF Indeed: Good, Americans from all walks of life need to realize that taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society.

So the US wasn't civilized until 1913?

Not really, not by the standards we'd considered civilized today. I certainly wouldn't want to go back to those days.

It's good to know that civilization started in the 20th century. Now, I can finally go back to scratching out all that useless information in the history books about the Greeks and Romans.

*sigh* Apparently school is wasted on you. Civilization and being civilized are actually two distinct ideas. Maybe you should study it out?

The dictionary wants to have a word with you.

Okay:

civilized past participle, past tense of civ·i·lize (Verb)
Verb:
Bring (a place or people) to a stage of social, cultural, and moral development considered to be more advanced: "a civilized society".
Polite and well-mannered.

civ·i·li·za·tion/ˌsivələˈzāSHən/
Noun:
The most advanced stage of human social development and organization.
The process by which a society or place reaches this stage.

Do you see the difference between being civilized and a civilization? No? In 1913 the US had a civilization, i.e. a stage of human social development, but it was not polite or well-mannered and the US civilization in 2012 is considered more civilized. We hope the US civilization of 2113 will be more civilized than the US civilization of 2012.

See the difference?

2. those people or nations that have reached such a state.


In other words, to be a civilization, you must have civilized people in it. Do you understand simple definitions?
 
2012-10-24 07:46:08 PM

BAMFinator: It was only $19 for most people per paycheck. I don't think it will hurt or help. It didn't help when they cut it.


$19? There goes this year's raise.
 
2012-10-24 10:13:21 PM

Slaves2Darkness: minoridiot: WTF Indeed: Good, Americans from all walks of life need to realize that taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society.

So the US wasn't civilized until 1913?

No, it was not. It still isn't completely civilized, but Unions, Family and Children Services, civil rights, have brought it a long way. The final push to being a civilized society will be universal health care, universal child care, universal housing, and the acknowledgement that marriage contracts should be honored between any consulting adults who wish to enter into that state, and yes that definition includes more than two consenting adults in a marriage.


How about just having generic paperwork to take care of any situation where someone might want someone else to have "power of attorney" over *their* assets, medical decisions, children (obviously the other parent maintains their half of child rearing decisions, but the first person can have a "Godparent" act on their behalf if need be.) ect.... without prying into people's personal social life which has frak all to do with it anyway?

/not mad at you
//just frustrated at the whole worthless debate.
 
2012-10-24 10:46:30 PM

Lsherm: Debeo Summa Credo: Also, we should gradually raise the rate raise the retirement age to keep SS solvent for the long term.

WTF is it with you guys and taxes? Do you all not work?


Yeah, we should do that too, quite honestly. A mix of FICA increases and age increases would be best.
 
2012-10-25 10:05:41 AM

WTF Indeed: Good, Americans from all walks of life need to realize that taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society.


there is reasonable taxation, and then there is what we pay. taxes are far too high for the return we get on that money.
 
2012-10-25 10:58:53 AM

Chevello: BAMFinator: It was only $19 for most people per paycheck. I don't think it will hurt or help. It didn't help when they cut it.

$19? There goes this year's raise.


So your saying the government deserves that money more than I do?
 
2012-10-25 11:25:30 AM

Asako: Chevello: BAMFinator: It was only $19 for most people per paycheck. I don't think it will hurt or help. It didn't help when they cut it.

$19? There goes this year's raise.

So your saying the government deserves that money more than I do?


Well they're sort of supposed to give that one back eventually. It's not like it's just going to get spent on programs of which you may or may not approve. Of course it's your money, and you have a say on how the government spends it through your vote.

I don't think it's about "deserve." Do we all "deserve" to have a military to protect the country? Do we all "deserve" to have the things a central government provides?

My post was more about how that little bit may not seem like much, in the perspective of this year's col raise, it amounts to not getting one.

/Which is why I'm looking for a better job
//irrelevant
 
2012-10-25 01:29:38 PM

minoridiot: WTF Indeed: Good, Americans from all walks of life need to realize that taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society.

So the US wasn't civilized until 1913?


You think US citizens didn't pay taxes until 1913?
 
2012-10-25 01:30:51 PM

soakitincider: WTF Indeed: Good, Americans from all walks of life need to realize that taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society.

there is reasonable taxation, and then there is what we pay. taxes are far too high for the return we get on that money.


Our taxes are very low compared to most other western countries and when compared to our own historic rates.
 
2012-10-25 10:55:49 PM

pkellmey: Slaves2Darkness: pkellmey: Slaves2Darkness: pkellmey: Critch: minoridiot: WTF Indeed: Good, Americans from all walks of life need to realize that taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society.

So the US wasn't civilized until 1913?

Not really, not by the standards we'd considered civilized today. I certainly wouldn't want to go back to those days.

It's good to know that civilization started in the 20th century. Now, I can finally go back to scratching out all that useless information in the history books about the Greeks and Romans.

*sigh* Apparently school is wasted on you. Civilization and being civilized are actually two distinct ideas. Maybe you should study it out?

The dictionary wants to have a word with you.

Okay:

civilized past participle, past tense of civ·i·lize (Verb)
Verb:
Bring (a place or people) to a stage of social, cultural, and moral development considered to be more advanced: "a civilized society".
Polite and well-mannered.

civ·i·li·za·tion/ˌsivələˈzāSHən/
Noun:
The most advanced stage of human social development and organization.
The process by which a society or place reaches this stage.

Do you see the difference between being civilized and a civilization? No? In 1913 the US had a civilization, i.e. a stage of human social development, but it was not polite or well-mannered and the US civilization in 2012 is considered more civilized. We hope the US civilization of 2113 will be more civilized than the US civilization of 2012.

See the difference?

2. those people or nations that have reached such a state.

In other words, to be a civilization, you must have civilized people in it. Do you understand simple definitions?


No you don't. America is a civilization. American's make fun of Canadians for being polite and well-mannered, or civilized.
 
2012-10-25 11:00:45 PM

Chevello: BAMFinator: It was only $19 for most people per paycheck. I don't think it will hurt or help. It didn't help when they cut it.

$19? There goes this year's raise.


In America, when your neighbor robs you of everything you own, you then attack the sheriff because he's a dirty communist.
 
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