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(ESPN)   ESPN's QBR scores have Philip Rivers behind such greats as Tannehill, Cutler, Dalton, Fitzpatrick, Palmer, Cassel, Freeman, Gabbert, Hasselbeck, and even Russel Wilson. At least he beat Mark Sanchez, if there's any consolation in that   ( ) divider line
    More: Amusing, QBR, Blaine Gabbert, Philip Rivers, Matt Cassel, Elisabeth Hasselbeck, ESPN, solace, NFL  
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1350 clicks; posted to Sports » on 24 Oct 2012 at 10:02 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

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2012-10-24 04:46:28 PM  

FriarReb98: Didn't we just have a thread saying that the QBR is dead?

I thought so, but then I saw otherwise and knew that for some reason I can mostly only get Sports greenlights if I mock the Chargers or Sanchez. The stars aligned for me.
2012-10-24 04:49:14 PM  

roc6783: There's actual facts that back me up and I am not just making up random crap.

True. But for some, the facts that matter are different. Me, I like 2nd half INTs as a fact that backs up my claim that Brett Favre is a total asshole middle of the road QB who just happens to be tougher than 2 Brawny(TM) paper towels folded together.

I also like Super Bowl appearances that say Jim Kelly is as good as Bradshaw and almost as good as Tom Brady, the best ever. Snark aside (where it belongs), if you like a guy as the best, there's a reason. Clearly that fact is going to hold more weight. Unless you like Flutie for the cereal; that doesn't affect his all-time list ranking.

Seriously, I like completion percentage, turnover/pass attempt ratio, and the same in playoffs. For a running QB though, those stats aren't enough. You need to account for yards per play, etc. There are too many variables to say "these facts backup my claim that [some guy] is the best." I agree those facts get Rodgers in the conversation, but they paint an incomplete picture. With those numbers, Rodgers could fumble every other drive and look like the messiah. He doesn't, but like I said, it doesn't paint the whole picture.

Me, I like Rodgers, but I hope he gets a career ending injury (or moves to Minnesota) because he plays us twice a year and I hate that.


Rodgers is good, but how people choose to compare QBs is a personal preference.
2012-10-24 04:50:22 PM  

blunto: I hate when people try to apply baseball-type stats to football. It never works out right.

It works fine when you're not ESPN trying to come up with a BS stat because your idiot pundits can't understand on the QB rating works.
The only stat that tells more about who won the game is points. Passer rating is awesome once understood. Combined with YPA & completion percentage you can compare QBs across generations.
Simply look at opposing QB's ratings to analyze a defense.

ESPN QBR the only system to put the winning superbowl QB's season behind a QB who's only 'highlight' was running out of his own endzone on accident.

A site that understands football stats
2012-10-24 07:26:20 PM  

This Looks Fun: roc6783: Incorrigible Astronaut: Treygreen13: Incorrigible Astronaut: You know, it took me until this thread to realize that SLFF and roc are black and white versions of the exact same guy.

SLFF isn't even really black.

Oh, I know. He's an alt, but I thought the resemblance was funny.

I feel like I am being insulted, but not sure how...

SLFF = Spike Lee's Favorite Farker. Rumors abound that he is actually white and playing a role but I've never seen proof. Incorrigible Astronaut is implying that your stance that A-Rodg is the GOAT is as ridiculous as SLFF's general stance that [some pretty good black athlete] is better than [any other comparable white athlete].

At least I think that's the gist.

Something like that. I see it as two people who are so loyal and hyperbolic about their players that any dissenting view is dismissed as flat-out wrong. It's not a criticism so much as an observation.
2012-10-25 01:39:32 AM  

Dafatone: Yanks_RSJ: roc6783: Rodgers and Young are 1a and 1b right now, once Rodgers surpasses Young in years played, he will be the unequivocal #1.

Steve Young isn't even the best QB in the history of the 49ers.

I think Young's skillset outweighs Montana's. Montana also had slightly better teams, or at least slightly worse opponents. As mentioned in this thread, Young often lost to better teams in the postseason, whereas Montana often bean worse teams. Montana's rightly famed for leading 4th quarter / last possession drives, which is important. It's not the only important thing, despite how many people highly value success "when it counts."

It's a pretty tough comparison. To me, I don't think postseason play is THAT important, given how reliant on the players around you it is. I certainly don't remember watching Steve Young and thinking, "gee, this guy throws bad passes in the playoffs." Steve Young's numbers are a little better across the board, even adjusted for era (in my opinion. And by qb rating+, according to pro-football-reference).

But, Montana played a bunch more for the Niners. 4600 pass attempts to 3600. Does that mean something? If it means we bump up Montana's value by that proportion, he's obviously ahead.

Montana was quick, before his injuries piled up, and he had to alter his style of play, becoming a more conventional, dropback passer. Young was quicker than even the youthful Montana though. Young's arm was a bit stronger. Montana's field awareness, touch, and ball placement were as good as anyone I ever saw play. Young sometimes struggled with that, especially early on. It wasn't Alex Smith's first 5 years bad, the balls did get completed an acceptable percentage of the time, and the interceptions didn't happen that often. It was just that sometimes he didn't spot guys that came open further downfield, or took off running before the play had a chance to develop, and receivers were a little more likely to get led into monster hits, or lost opportunities for yards after the catch because they were scraping the ball off their shoetops.
2012-10-25 06:55:15 AM  

IAmRight: So I'm seeing some problems here...

You have the EPA, which kinda makes sense. Then you have points above replacement and points above average...then you have rating reflecting totally different things. Like, for example, Aaron Rodgers vs Andrew Luck. Rodgers has a better PAR and PAA...but a worse QB rating? So I figure "maybe it has to do with the number of action plays - sure, Rodgers has a total EPA 8 points higher than Luck, but he's also played 28 more action plays. Maybe that has something to do with it. But I'm too lazy at math to try to figure out if they divide it by something or let's look down the list and find somewhere that defies that idea."

Then I look down at Blaine Gabbert vs Josh Freeman. Gabbert has a higher EPA, fewer plays, a lower value over replacement, but is better compared to the average QB...and is worse in QBR.

Yeah, someone's gonna have to explain that formula a bit.

Let me try: its a bunch of hooey that ESPN thew together to have something to fill 7 networks and 10 radio shows a day with. Passer rating not convoluted enough for you, lets throw a bunch subjection into the mix and POOF! A stat that lets Cowherd spend 30 minutes talking about how Gabbert is better than Rivers.
2012-10-25 01:02:37 PM  

Incorrigible Astronaut: Something like that. I see it as two people who are so loyal and hyperbolic about their players that any dissenting view is dismissed as flat-out wrong. It's not a criticism so much as an observation.

Ah, the difference I see is that SLFF doesn't try to use facts. But I guess I see your point. In other news, if the Packers end up with another great franchise QB after Rodgers, I'm going to cry.
2012-10-26 01:26:52 PM  
Reasons why QBR is flawed

1. Chad Pennington had the 11th best QBR season of all time*.
2. See #1

*Since 2008
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