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(Christian Science Monitor)   Yup Apple is just like a crazy fringe cult minus the feel good aspect though it does have the revered (and sometimes deceased) prophet   (csmonitor.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, apples, TechNewsDaily, cults, prophets, Kristen Bell, Apple products  
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1851 clicks; posted to Geek » on 24 Oct 2012 at 1:05 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



78 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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Archived thread
 
2012-10-24 09:48:14 AM  
I predict an entirely reasonable thread void of ardent fanboys of any stripe.
 
2012-10-24 10:09:56 AM  
For the record, most of us find anyone who'd call someone a cultist for liking one brand or another to be just a little loony.

If you're likening Apple to a religion, you've pretty much got to recognize that the apple hate is also religious fanaticism and recognize you belong on those rolls.
 
2012-10-24 10:26:26 AM  
i102.photobucket.com 
Look, business is a little slow but we're gonna have our two-for-one sale. Buy two, get one. Who could resist that?
 
2012-10-24 12:17:40 PM  

unlikely: For the record, most of us find anyone who'd call someone a cultist for liking one brand or another to be just a little loony.

If you're likening Apple to a religion, you've pretty much got to recognize that the apple hate is also religious fanaticism and recognize you belong on those rolls.


The same way "NOT collecting stamps" is a hobby.
 
2012-10-24 12:30:24 PM  
I don't know of any religions with an EPS of 42.5 still trading at 14.4 P/E, except maybe Scientology™.
 
2012-10-24 12:52:57 PM  

Saborlas: unlikely: For the record, most of us find anyone who'd call someone a cultist for liking one brand or another to be just a little loony.

If you're likening Apple to a religion, you've pretty much got to recognize that the apple hate is also religious fanaticism and recognize you belong on those rolls.

The same way "NOT collecting stamps" is a hobby.


Exactly wrong.

The venom against apple is every bit as emotional and heartfelt as some of the love that the venom is reacting to.
Those of us who really don't care and see each platform for its merits and flaws and make our choices according to our needs are the ones not collecting stamps.

The ones who hate or love a brand are just two sides of the same religion.
 
2012-10-24 01:13:44 PM  
Long live the Zune!
 
2012-10-24 01:16:46 PM  
all i have to add is that there's a time and a place to let your emotions have a say in what you buy or don't buy

letting your emotions turn you into a fanboy or anti-fanboy is pretty sad, might as well be drunk when you buy stuff
 
2012-10-24 01:18:39 PM  

SithLord: Long live the Zune!


Screw your zune, long live the random brand mp3 player for half the price and similar specs!
 
2012-10-24 01:19:26 PM  
And the Cult of Apple is going to suffer over this Christmas holiday.

Yesterday's iFail event was shockingly ill received.
 
2012-10-24 01:23:39 PM  
Don't tell them that!!!!! Next thing you see is Apple getting tax free status!
 
2012-10-24 01:28:50 PM  
from reading the article, it seems more that apple has knowingly co-opted some aspect of "revival" style religious events as a way to boost their marketing and sales than apple spontaneously invoking religious fervor in customers. its somewhat cynical of them, but if it moves more product, its hard to fault the strategy.
 
2012-10-24 01:34:25 PM  

unlikely: For the record, most of us find anyone who'd call someone a cultist for liking one brand or another to be just a little loony.

If you're likening Apple to a religion, you've pretty much got to recognize that the apple hate is also religious fanaticism and recognize you belong on those rolls.


Could the same then be said of fanatical athiests who fight against any thing religious being included in anything public?

/not religious, nor do I call myself athiest, really have no need for any classification
 
2012-10-24 01:36:27 PM  

SithLord: Long live the Zune!


Agreed

Hey I still have a Zune120, it runs well and when the touch pad was acting up for $20 bucks I bought a replacement and fixed it myself. Also I gave myself a 250gb hard drive and installed it myself and I love my device because it has my whole library of vids, podcasts and music with space to spare, a 3.2in screen. and is very durable. So why do a need a smaller hard drive, more fragile touch screen device that I don't need and function well without. This is one product I miss
 
2012-10-24 01:37:13 PM  

Leeds: And the Cult of Apple is going to suffer over this Christmas holiday.


No, it isn't. Personally, I don't care one way or the other, but let's face it, Apple is a monstrously successful company and all the haters have been wrong over and over again. People buy a sheetload of their products and that isn't going to end any time soon.
 
2012-10-24 01:42:01 PM  

unlikely: you've pretty much got to recognize that the apple hate is also religious fanaticism


atheism is not a religion

/ibald is a hairstyle
 
2012-10-24 01:45:25 PM  
Don't we already have a cult of the machine already?.

It's a very used trope in sci-fi to have a group of people worshiping machines (or 'The Machine') as gods. Usually they're very crazy, tech-savvy but not willing to 'improvise' on already existing designs (let the High technocrats deal with the gods as they see fit), or if they do they attribute it to inspiration by the machine(s), or machine spirit.

In many ways, the so-called Apple cult is that Church of the Machine. There is no Windows cult, there certainly is a Linux Cult, but it has more to do awe of what you can do with it than actual worship (in a way), so if the world is to collapse, there ones that will preserve technology will be the usual scavengers that are tech-savvy, the warlords -descendants of former CEOs- that hoard old-world tech for their own purposes, and then The Cult of the Bitten Apple.
 
2012-10-24 01:51:32 PM  

TNel: Don't tell them that!!!!! Next thing you see is Apple getting tax free status!


I would rather have a Tech company have tax-free status, than a religious organization.

Or, that all religious organizations pay taxes, and those that use historical buildings for their sermons pay the appropriate taxes for preservation and rent (if they don't do this already).
 
2012-10-24 01:51:51 PM  
How separate is the Christian Science Monitor from the Church of Christ Scientists?

These are NOT scientists because they believe that prayer cures disease. Bunch of farkin' loons in my opinion. Though they may be experts on cults.
 
2012-10-24 01:51:52 PM  
Because the first place I go to get a valid opinion on cults is other religious organizations' websites.

"As a practicing Mormon, I think Muslims are crazy."

Ok then...
 
2012-10-24 01:53:43 PM  

Leeds: And the Cult of Apple is going to suffer over this Christmas holiday.

Yesterday's iFail event was shockingly ill received.


Mostly by people who were going to complain no matter what, many of them paid shills. Let's see, the guy who was crowing about how Apple will fall behind because they only update their products once a year, is now complaining because they updated the iPad after only six months. Hmm, what could possibly be his motivation?

Calling Apple a cult is lazy thinking, and shows that you think parroting some lame anti-Apple propaganda will make you look smart or cool. Nope, you look like a loser.
 
2012-10-24 01:55:21 PM  
See Also:

commencement.caltech.edu
 
2012-10-24 02:00:24 PM  

bingethinker: Calling Apple a cult is lazy thinking


i think calling apple a cult is an insult to cults. the followers of a cult may be crazy to most people, but at least they believe in what they are doing and are trying to answer the deep questions that have moved human philosophy for mellenia (where did we come from, why are we here, meaning of life, etc, etc.) apple just cynically adopts specific elements of religious systems to sell overpriced consumer toys to rich people.
 
2012-10-24 02:00:48 PM  

Unoriginal_Username: unlikely: For the record, most of us find anyone who'd call someone a cultist for liking one brand or another to be just a little loony.

If you're likening Apple to a religion, you've pretty much got to recognize that the apple hate is also religious fanaticism and recognize you belong on those rolls.

Could the same then be said of fanatical athiests who fight against any thing religious being included in anything public?

/not religious, nor do I call myself athiest, really have no need for any classification


Absolutely.
 
2012-10-24 02:11:57 PM  
unlikely: The venom against apple is every bit as emotional and heartfelt as some of the love that the venom is reacting to.

I'm not against Apple, I'm against locked down proprietary systems and anti-consumer business practices.

// In other words ... fark Sony too.
 
2012-10-24 02:19:12 PM  

bingethinker: Leeds: And the Cult of Apple is going to suffer over this Christmas holiday.

Yesterday's iFail event was shockingly ill received.

Mostly by people who were going to complain no matter what, many of them paid shills. Let's see, the guy who was crowing about how Apple will fall behind because they only update their products once a year, is now complaining because they updated the iPad after only six months. Hmm, what could possibly be his motivation?

Calling Apple a cult is lazy thinking, and shows that you think parroting some lame anti-Apple propaganda will make you look smart or cool. Nope, you look like a loser.


Are you drunk? Do you think that you make sense when you type gibberish like that?

The reason I stated that yesterday's event was the first "iFail" was because for the first time they were playing catch-up in a tablet segment and also for the first time they produced a device that doesn't even come close to competing with the competition.

And for the record, I own shares of APPL. I'm just wondering if I should dump it before it loses any more value than it already has since 1:00 yesterday when they first announced this latest product.

Now be gone, trollfag.
 
2012-10-24 02:23:51 PM  
Ever been in an Apple store? They seem far more like a cult recruitment center than an electronics store. I give it 10 years before Steve Jobs ends up in the same category as L. Ron Hubbard.
 
2012-10-24 02:40:08 PM  

lordargent: unlikely: The venom against apple is every bit as emotional and heartfelt as some of the love that the venom is reacting to.

I'm not against Apple, I'm against locked down proprietary systems and anti-consumer business practices.

// In other words ... fark Sony too.


That's rational. It's different than the emotional arguments in the rest of the thread.
I'm vaguely sad that people can't see the difference.
 
2012-10-24 02:44:03 PM  

PluckYew: How separate is the Christian Science Monitor from the Church of Christ Scientists?

These are NOT scientists because they believe that prayer cures disease. Bunch of farkin' loons in my opinion. Though they may be experts on cults.


CSM is actually a pretty respected newspaper, but it is connected to the wackadoo religion.
 
2012-10-24 02:57:22 PM  
Android = Christians, Apple = Jews?
 
2012-10-24 03:05:03 PM  

fatalvenom: Android = Christians, Apple = Jews?


When Apple was in Windows land,
LET MY PEOPLE GO!!!

Also, I'll point out, if it hasn't already been pointed out, yesterday's product launch was streamed - but only to fully updated Apple devices using Safari ...

/Mac user at home and at work. Just desktops though, I can't stand the mobile shart they peddle.
 
2012-10-24 03:14:22 PM  
unlikely: That's rational. It's different than the emotional arguments in the rest of the thread.
I'm vaguely sad that people can't see the difference.


I mean at the end of the day, I'm not really a Microsoft fan either (crappily designed software/hardware comes to mind). Buuuut

Since the iPhone 5 is out, I've had conversations with colleagues, and something just plain makes no sense to me.

Apple solders flash memory into their devices and charges huge premiums to go from one capacity to another, e.x. iPhone 5 pricing.

$199 16GB
$299 32GB
$399 64GB

A 32 gig name brand (SanDisk) micro SD card can be had for around $25 (a 64 gig for ~$60), their costs would be cheaper because they're not paying retail, IIRC they're also just using the internals (so not playing for the casing either). So how the hell does going from 16GB of internal storage to 32GB of internal storage cost an extra $200?

Even Dell didn't gouge this much on their laptop/desktop drives/ram.

So after all of this, I've come to a startling conclusion.

Apple is run by the Ferengi! Motivated by profit, willing to do anything they can get away with in order to acquire said profit. And when I started thinking of things with that in mind, it all started to make sense.

"We will build a rudimentary communication device, and charge the stupid hoo-mans $200 just to increase the memory ... using a part that's only worth $60, hahahahaha."

// the iPhone 5 uses SanDisk flash anyway (per ifixit).

// Would it kill them to put a micro SD slot on the iPhone?

// I guess if the prices were too close, people would just go for the larger capacity model. But then, why set up different assembly lines and make different SKUs.
 
2012-10-24 03:15:33 PM  
Oops

16GB of internal storage to 32GB 64GB of internal storage cost an extra $200?
 
2012-10-24 03:32:25 PM  

lordargent: Oops

16GB of internal storage to 32GB 64GB of internal storage cost an extra $200?


Phone storage and SD/Micro SD storage are not even in the same class so it's very hard to compare those.
 
2012-10-24 03:42:56 PM  
i46.tinypic.com
 
2012-10-24 03:50:15 PM  

unlikely: Saborlas: unlikely: For the record, most of us find anyone who'd call someone a cultist for liking one brand or another to be just a little loony.

If you're likening Apple to a religion, you've pretty much got to recognize that the apple hate is also religious fanaticism and recognize you belong on those rolls.

The same way "NOT collecting stamps" is a hobby.

Exactly wrong.

The venom against apple is every bit as emotional and heartfelt as some of the love that the venom is reacting to.
Those of us who really don't care and see each platform for its merits and flaws and make our choices according to our needs are the ones not collecting stamps.

The ones who hate or love a brand are just two sides of the same religion.


Yeah. People who think 50% profit margin in a 2% market are just being emotional. Riiiight.
 
2012-10-24 03:58:38 PM  

TNel: lordargent: Oops

16GB of internal storage to 32GB 64GB of internal storage cost an extra $200?

Phone storage and SD/Micro SD storage are not even in the same class so it's very hard to compare those.


Galaxy 32 gig S3 no contract price is $650 compared to the the Iphone 5 32 gig at 750. So that extra hundrded bucks gets another 64 gigs of ram and an Otterbox. Where is the value? Call me crazy.

Also, for 50 bucks you can get a class 10 card which is fairly close to the speed of your phones internal memory.

The other advantage is that if you break the phone, the SD card and what is on it remains intact.
 
2012-10-24 04:01:08 PM  
TNel: Phone storage and SD/Micro SD storage are not even in the same class so it's very hard to compare those.

It's a lot more similar than you think.

http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/pages/iPhone5-Carries-$199-BOM -V irtual-Teardown-Reveals.aspx

The 16GB NAND flash module is only $10.40, the 64GB NAND flash is only $41.60.

So going from 16GB to 64GB represents a cost increase of $31.2 to apple, but a $200 increase to the consumer.

//Ferengi
 
2012-10-24 04:05:06 PM  

mysticcat: I don't know of any religions with an EPS of 42.5 still trading at 14.4 P/E, except maybe Scientology™.


I do.

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-10-24 05:08:27 PM  

XMark: Ever been in an Apple store? They seem far more like a cult recruitment center than an electronics store. I give it 10 years before Steve Jobs ends up in the same category as L. Ron Hubbard.


Yeah... no. The best thing about Apple Stores is that there's never any sales pressure. You can poke around their display devices as much as you like without anyone bugging you, the worst thing they'll do is kick you out for looking at porn or something.

Try walking into a Scientology/Dianetics center and tell them you just wanna look around. See how many seconds they leave you alone for.
 
2012-10-24 05:24:40 PM  

TNel: lordargent: Oops

16GB of internal storage to 32GB 64GB of internal storage cost an extra $200?

Phone storage and SD/Micro SD storage are not even in the same class so it's very hard to compare those.


Intel 520 series SSD, 240 GB for $220

Methinks Apple be gouging.
 
2012-10-24 05:29:58 PM  
unlikely: For the record, most of us find anyone who'd call someone a cultist for liking one brand or another to be just a little loony.

If you're likening Apple to a religion, you've pretty much got to recognize that the apple hate is also religious fanaticism and recognize you belong on those rolls.


It's like accusing someone of racism because they accused someone else of being racist.
 
2012-10-24 05:33:56 PM  
bingethinker: Leeds: And the Cult of Apple is going to suffer over this Christmas holiday.

Yesterday's iFail event was shockingly ill received.

Mostly by people who were going to complain no matter what, many of them paid shills.


Like yourself being a shill for Apple. I've seen you plenty of times on Fark, but only in threads involving Apple with you being it's biggest defender.
 
2012-10-24 06:28:55 PM  
i18.photobucket.com
"It never ends, this shiat."
 
2012-10-24 06:36:02 PM  
PluckYew: Methinks Apple be gouging.

They're not using SSDs in their phones :P
 
2012-10-24 06:46:09 PM  

unlikely: For the record, most of us find anyone who'd call someone a cultist for liking one brand or another to be just a little loony.

If you're likening Apple to a religion, you've pretty much got to recognize that the apple hate is also religious fanaticism and recognize you belong on those rolls.


If someone doesn't like the way a business operates or the products it sells,that person becomes part of a group dedicated to worshiping the hate of said company?

The same way that hating another religion makes the hater religious?

/I can't tell, people. Is he trolling?
 
2012-10-24 07:02:10 PM  

CygnusDarius: Don't we already have a cult of the machine already?.

It's a very used trope in sci-fi to have a group of people worshiping machines (or 'The Machine') as gods. Usually they're very crazy, tech-savvy but not willing to 'improvise' on already existing designs (let the High technocrats deal with the gods as they see fit), or if they do they attribute it to inspiration by the machine(s), or machine spirit.

In many ways, the so-called Apple cult is that Church of the Machine. There is no Windows cult, there certainly is a Linux Cult, but it has more to do awe of what you can do with it than actual worship (in a way), so if the world is to collapse, there ones that will preserve technology will be the usual scavengers that are tech-savvy, the warlords -descendants of former CEOs- that hoard old-world tech for their own purposes, and then The Cult of the Bitten Apple.


It's not about the machine. If anything, Apple is an anti-machine cult.

Samsung, Microsoft, Dell sell you a machine. "Here's a PC, here's the specs, here's the price". Compare Dell's marketing with "Think Different". That campaign was nothing to do with machines, and everything to do with trying to reach a group of people with delusions of grandeur, that by buying a Mac, they're entering a club that appreciates their brilliance, even if their boss or co-workers don't. It's why all that Garageband and movie stuff gets thrown in. A lot of Apple marketing is about that whole "I'll be creative if I have the right tools" nonsense.

That's why fanboys get so upset when people attack Apple. You aren't just attacking a computer company that makes products, you're attacking what they perceive as a community that they're part of. They won't even admit that stuff is problematic because having joined the cult, to do so means that you are a heretic.
 
2012-10-24 07:19:43 PM  

farkeruk: It's not about the machine. If anything, Apple is an anti-machine cult.

Samsung, Microsoft, Dell sell you a machine. "Here's a PC, here's the specs, here's the price". Compare Dell's marketing with "Think Different". That campaign was nothing to do with machines, and everything to do with trying to reach a group of people with delusions of grandeur, that by buying a Mac, they're entering a club that appreciates their brilliance, even if their boss or co-workers don't. It's why all that Garageband and movie stuff gets thrown in. A lot of Apple marketing is about that whole "I'll be creative if I have the right tools" nonsense.

That's why fanboys get so upset when people attack Apple. You aren't just attacking a computer company that makes products, you're attacking what they perceive as a community that they're part of. They won't even admit that stuff is problematic because having joined the cult, to do so means that you are a heretic.


That's a pretty good point, and I guess you're right. Then again, I'm more of a tech mercenary.
 
2012-10-24 07:23:09 PM  
Some people are driven to be fashionable.

They must drive a BMW.
They must wear a Rolex.
They must carry an iPhone.

And they 'Think Different'.

BwaHahaHaha
 
2012-10-24 07:42:35 PM  
I think everyone missed the point of TFA: Kristen Bell.

I had no idea she is an actor as well as an anthropologist at the University of British Columbia in Canada. Now that is a cult I can get behind!
 
2012-10-24 07:48:51 PM  
I'm laughing so hard right now.

Apple just announced a recall program for 21.5" and 27" iMac's with 1TB Seagate HDD's made between October 2009 and July 2011.

LOL!

http://www.apple.com/support/imac-harddrive/
 
2012-10-24 08:25:29 PM  

unlikely: Exactly wrong.

The venom against apple is every bit as emotional and heartfelt as some of the love that the venom is reacting to.
Those of us who really don't care and see each platform for its merits and flaws and make our choices according to our needs are the ones not collecting stamps.

The ones who hate or love a brand are just two sides of the same religion.



You're exactly wrong. The Apple cultists are addicted to the reward sensation. Apple has figured out a way to trigger the ventral striatum, which releases all those feel good chemicals into the brain.

What happens to the Apple haters is that when they see Mac Cultists acting like lab rats in a Skinner Box instead of rational human beings, it activates the amygdala, which causes a sensation of stress, anxiety, etc. The brain attempts to compensate, causing the Haters to lash out at the Cultists, which eases the negative sensation and balances everything out.
 
2012-10-24 09:26:48 PM  
As soon as I saw the person in the article was named Kristen Bell, I came here for some nice Kristen Bell pictures.

Way to piss in my Cheerios, Fark.
 
2012-10-24 09:51:09 PM  

Kaybeck: unlikely: Exactly wrong.

The venom against apple is every bit as emotional and heartfelt as some of the love that the venom is reacting to.
Those of us who really don't care and see each platform for its merits and flaws and make our choices according to our needs are the ones not collecting stamps.

The ones who hate or love a brand are just two sides of the same religion.


You're exactly wrong. The Apple cultists are addicted to the reward sensation. Apple has figured out a way to trigger the ventral striatum, which releases all those feel good chemicals into the brain.

What happens to the Apple haters is that when they see Mac Cultists acting like lab rats in a Skinner Box instead of rational human beings, it activates the amygdala, which causes a sensation of stress, anxiety, etc. The brain attempts to compensate, causing the Haters to lash out at the Cultists, which eases the negative sensation and balances everything out.


So you're saying it's "DING! *slobber*" all the way down?
 
2012-10-24 10:29:41 PM  

bingethinker: Leeds: And the Cult of Apple is going to suffer over this Christmas holiday.

Yesterday's iFail event was shockingly ill received.

Mostly by people who were going to complain no matter what, many of them paid shills. Let's see, the guy who was crowing about how Apple will fall behind because they only update their products once a year, is now complaining because they updated the iPad after only six months. Hmm, what could possibly be his motivation?

Calling Apple a cult is lazy thinking, and shows that you think parroting some lame anti-Apple propaganda will make you look smart or cool. Nope, you look like a loser.


Says the paid shill.

Cooper420: I'm laughing so hard right now.

Apple just announced a recall program for 21.5" and 27" iMac's with 1TB Seagate HDD's made between October 2009 and July 2011.

LOL!

http://www.apple.com/support/imac-harddrive/


It's kind of hard to fault Apple for this, they didn't make the drives and they're being proactive about the failures, I'm sure plenty of people here know that I don't really like the company but I still think a few of the complaints reach just a bit too far.
 
2012-10-24 10:48:55 PM  
More like a crazy mainstream cult. I mean can iPeople really think they're clever at this point?
 
2012-10-24 11:42:06 PM  

lordargent: unlikely: That's rational. It's different than the emotional arguments in the rest of the thread.
I'm vaguely sad that people can't see the difference.

I mean at the end of the day, I'm not really a Microsoft fan either (crappily designed software/hardware comes to mind). Buuuut

Since the iPhone 5 is out, I've had conversations with colleagues, and something just plain makes no sense to me.

Apple solders flash memory into their devices and charges huge premiums to go from one capacity to another, e.x. iPhone 5 pricing.

$199 16GB
$299 32GB
$399 64GB

A 32 gig name brand (SanDisk) micro SD card can be had for around $25 (a 64 gig for ~$60), their costs would be cheaper because they're not paying retail, IIRC they're also just using the internals (so not playing for the casing either). So how the hell does going from 16GB of internal storage to 32GB of internal storage cost an extra $200?

Even Dell didn't gouge this much on their laptop/desktop drives/ram.

So after all of this, I've come to a startling conclusion.

Apple is run by the Ferengi! Motivated by profit, willing to do anything they can get away with in order to acquire said profit. And when I started thinking of things with that in mind, it all started to make sense.

"We will build a rudimentary communication device, and charge the stupid hoo-mans $200 just to increase the memory ... using a part that's only worth $60, hahahahaha."

// the iPhone 5 uses SanDisk flash anyway (per ifixit).

// Would it kill them to put a micro SD slot on the iPhone?

// I guess if the prices were too close, people would just go for the larger capacity model. But then, why set up different assembly lines and make different SKUs.


Gotdang it. SD cards are NOT the same as the hardwired storage they are using. STOP making this faulty comparison.
 
2012-10-25 12:12:04 AM  
farm6.staticflickr.com
 
2012-10-25 12:14:50 AM  

laivincolmo: Gotdang it. SD cards are NOT the same as the hardwired storage they are using. STOP making this faulty comparison.


Effectively they are.
 
2012-10-25 12:23:01 AM  

0Icky0: laivincolmo: Gotdang it. SD cards are NOT the same as the hardwired storage they are using. STOP making this faulty comparison.

Effectively they are.


No, they aren't. SD cards have slower read write times, coupled with extra hardware.
 
2012-10-25 01:07:02 AM  

laivincolmo: No, they aren't. SD cards have slower read write times, coupled with extra hardware.


My $60 Class 10 64GB card works brilliantly in my phone.
You just need to believe otherwise.
 
2012-10-25 01:29:04 AM  

0Icky0: laivincolmo: No, they aren't. SD cards have slower read write times, coupled with extra hardware.

My $60 Class 10 64GB card works brilliantly in my phone.
You just need to believe otherwise.


The key point is that it exists as secondary storage, not primary. Using it as primary storage as some are suggesting, is ridiculous. There's a good reason Google has been trending away from multiple partitions on Android.
 
2012-10-25 02:10:34 AM  
laivincolmo: Gotdang it. SD cards are NOT the same as the hardwired storage they are using. STOP making this faulty comparison.

I used retail pricing for equivalent SD cards in my original post because that's what I had readily available. Because at the end of the day, the only real difference is the speed of the NAND and the packaging (soldered right to the board vs in a plastic micro SD card). I figured the price difference in the memory sizes would be similar for the internal memory as well, because it's all NAND at the end of the day.

In my second post, the BOM from isuppli lists the components and includes the shelf price of the internal NAND memory.

The 16GB NAND flash module is only $10.40, the 64GB NAND flash is only $41.60. So going from 16GB to 64GB represents a cost increase of $31.2 to apple, but a $200 increase to the consumer.

You're arguing minutae about memory speed and packaging, but the reality doesn't support your arguments, there simply is no justification (other than massive profit) for the price premiums.
 
2012-10-25 02:22:44 AM  
laivincolmo: Gotdang it. SD cards are NOT the same as the hardwired storage they are using. STOP making this faulty comparison.

But if you still don't believe me.

Apple is also sourcing Hynix NAND

So I went and grabbed an image for you from the Hynix site. (this image shows the applications that their flash memory can be used for).

www.skhynix.com

Note the SD and Micro SD card.

//I worked in component supply for 10 years, moved over to IT because RoHS was a PITA.
 
2012-10-25 03:27:36 AM  

change1211: It's kind of hard to fault Apple for this, they didn't make the drives and they're being proactive about the failures, I'm sure plenty of people here know that I don't really like the company but I still think a few of the complaints reach just a bit too far.


I'm one of the people effected by this - I'll say, I've not had a hard drive problem in over 3 years, and I'm a fairly hard user on my HD's. My previous iMacs, a G5 and a Core Duo Intel "White" model, both had hard drive replacments. My Al iMac's HD is chugging away. I will get it replaced under the plan, but only after the initial burst of people is done. Right now it's like a 5 day wait time if you take it to an Apple Store. Even my local Apple reseller is quoting 4 days. Wait two weeks and I'll go to a movie and it'll be done. If it went tomorrow, I'd be fine anyway, thanks to my Time Machine backup. I could get it fixed and back running within an hour.
 
2012-10-25 03:30:09 AM  

lordargent: laivincolmo: Gotdang it. SD cards are NOT the same as the hardwired storage they are using. STOP making this faulty comparison.

I used retail pricing for equivalent SD cards in my original post because that's what I had readily available. Because at the end of the day, the only real difference is the speed of the NAND and the packaging (soldered right to the board vs in a plastic micro SD card). I figured the price difference in the memory sizes would be similar for the internal memory as well, because it's all NAND at the end of the day.

In my second post, the BOM from isuppli lists the components and includes the shelf price of the internal NAND memory.

The 16GB NAND flash module is only $10.40, the 64GB NAND flash is only $41.60. So going from 16GB to 64GB represents a cost increase of $31.2 to apple, but a $200 increase to the consumer.

You're arguing minutae about memory speed and packaging, but the reality doesn't support your arguments, there simply is no justification (other than massive profit) for the price premiums.


Every company does this. Google Nexus 7, the 8 gig baseline is 199, the 16 gig model is 249. Does that 8 gigs cost 50 bucks? No, of course not. But that's how pricing structures work on these fixed-memory devices.
 
2012-10-25 03:45:56 AM  

Leeds: And for the record, I own shares of APPL. I'm just wondering if I should dump it before it loses any more value than it already has since 1:00 yesterday when they first announced this latest product.


On a very down day in the market, Apple lost 10. They gained 3.5 today. Tuesday was a bad day overall, and almost all of AAPL's drop on Tuesday was right at the opening bell, same as the rest of the stock indexes. If you're an investor, you should probably look at a chart or two.

(yes I realize that's AAPL versus the DOW, but it was more clear.)

I wouldn't worry. iPad minis will sell like hotcakes. We geeks might sit here and discuss price for value but to the average consumer, they see a very nice, new shiny device that gives them everything the iPad apple offered in March would give them, but that they can hold one-handed and toss in their purse or briefcase easily. All the apps from their iPhone will work on it, or better, and they get to look cool with the newest thing on the block. It's also right in that spot where someone with some MAD money could buy it for themselves pre-holiday. Lots of these will be Christmas bonuses too.

The other announcements were good too: The Retina Display Macbook is gonna get a lot of eyes. I've had customers come into my store all ready asking for new iMacs. iBooks look gorgeous and I especially liked the function calculator built in for Math textbooks. That's going to be interesting to see what textbook developers can do with that. WHile I'm sure there's a few people annoyed their iPad 3's are "outdated" (I'd personally be happy with having the 30-pin for another 6-12 months, one reason I skipped iPhone 5 for now), I think that's outweighed by the people who will be getting them for Christmas.

The only disappointment to me yesterday was no new iTunes release date. Minor, but I feel it. I assume it'll be before the iPad mini's release date on Nov. 2 though.

Apple will do fine.
 
2012-10-25 05:59:26 AM  
saintstryfe: Every company does this. Google Nexus 7, the 8 gig baseline is 199, the 16 gig model is 249. Does that 8 gigs cost 50 bucks? No, of course not. But that's how pricing structures work on these fixed-memory devices.

That doesn't make it OK.

www.zdnet.com 

// not quite apple levels yet though, it's only a $50 difference :P
 
2012-10-25 06:56:44 AM  

unlikely: For the record, most of us find anyone who'd call someone a cultist for liking one brand or another to be just a little loony.

If you're likening Apple to a religion, you've pretty much got to recognize that the apple hate is also religious fanaticism and recognize you belong on those rolls.


Atheism is not a religion.

Damn these religious types see EVERYTHING as a damn religion.
 
2012-10-25 06:59:53 AM  

unlikely: Saborlas: unlikely: For the record, most of us find anyone who'd call someone a cultist for liking one brand or another to be just a little loony.

If you're likening Apple to a religion, you've pretty much got to recognize that the apple hate is also religious fanaticism and recognize you belong on those rolls.

The same way "NOT collecting stamps" is a hobby.

Exactly wrong.

The venom against apple is every bit as emotional and heartfelt as some of the love that the venom is reacting to.
Those of us who really don't care and see each platform for its merits and flaws and make our choices according to our needs are the ones not collecting stamps.

The ones who hate or love a brand are just two sides of the same religion.


Exactly wrong. It is like saying if you hate christianity and/or christians you must be religious, which makes no sense.

Your logic is bad and you should feel bad.
 
2012-10-25 09:04:30 AM  

dready zim: unlikely: For the record, most of us find anyone who'd call someone a cultist for liking one brand or another to be just a little loony.

If you're likening Apple to a religion, you've pretty much got to recognize that the apple hate is also religious fanaticism and recognize you belong on those rolls.

Atheism is not a religion.

Damn these religious types see EVERYTHING as a damn religion.


No. But it is possible to distort atheism into an ideology that roughly apes some of the externalities of religion.
 
2012-10-25 09:29:08 AM  

dready zim: Damn these religious types see EVERYTHING as a damn religion.


ibald
 
2012-10-25 09:59:11 AM  

DuudeStanky: If someone doesn't like the way a business operates or the products it sells,that person becomes part of a group dedicated to worshiping the hate of said company?

The same way that hating another religion makes the hater religious?


jso2897: But it is possible to distort atheism into an ideology that roughly apes some of the externalities of religion.


Both worshipping and hating involve a deep emotional response. The same goes for the form of aetheism which finds it necessary to attack everything religious. The opposite of worshipping something is not hating it, it is simply not giving a flying fark.
 
2012-10-25 01:07:58 PM  

lordargent: saintstryfe: Every company does this. Google Nexus 7, the 8 gig baseline is 199, the 16 gig model is 249. Does that 8 gigs cost 50 bucks? No, of course not. But that's how pricing structures work on these fixed-memory devices.

That doesn't make it OK.

[www.zdnet.com image 527x368] 

// not quite apple levels yet though, it's only a $50 difference :P


But you're only accosting Apple. It's exactly the same thing, but you are pointing at Apple as some special evil. You're being hypocritical at best.
 
2012-10-25 02:37:14 PM  
saintstryfe: But you're only accosting Apple. It's exactly the same thing, but you are pointing at Apple as some special evil. You're being hypocritical at best.

1) Apple just has the one phone, they provided no alternatives. You want an iOS phone with a removable SD card, you can't have it ... not yours. On the android side, most android phones have micro SD card slots (even if it's a PITA to get to on some phones). So while some android phones do have unresolvable memory, they are the exception and not the norm.

2) This article is about apple.

3) Like I said, just because other people are doing it doesn't make it right, and if more android phones start to do the same thing, I will gripe about that as well.

4) Right now, my biggest android gripe revolves around preinstalled, non removable bloatware (why the fark is there an AOL app on my phone!!) and how long it takes for upgrades to come out (farking Verizon/Motorola). You can find me in the next greenlit android thread.
 
2012-10-25 10:47:54 PM  

lordargent: 4) Right now, my biggest android gripe revolves around preinstalled, non removable bloatware (why the fark is there an AOL app on my phone!!) and how long it takes for upgrades to come out (farking Verizon/Motorola). You can find me in the next greenlit android thread.


That shouldn't be an Android gripe, but a service provider gripe.
My Android didn't come with any of that crap.
And my upgrades come as soon as they are released.

/Hong Kong, and loving it.
 
2012-10-27 03:25:27 AM  
Keep this in mind: Ever since animals were observed making tools, brand worship has been the one thing that separates us from the animals.
 
2012-10-27 05:08:48 AM  

jso2897: dready zim: unlikely: For the record, most of us find anyone who'd call someone a cultist for liking one brand or another to be just a little loony.

If you're likening Apple to a religion, you've pretty much got to recognize that the apple hate is also religious fanaticism and recognize you belong on those rolls.

Atheism is not a religion.

Damn these religious types see EVERYTHING as a damn religion.

No. But it is possible to distort atheism into an ideology that roughly apes some of the externalities of religion.


You can shave a dog but it doesn`t make it into a pig. You can be fanatical but that is about where the similarities end. The main defining aspect of organised religion is anthropomorphising natural phenomena. Something atheists do not do which is why atheism will never be a religion because a core tenet of atheism is *not* believing that. They are diametrically opposed concepts.

Your logic is bad and you should feel bad.
 
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