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(Washington Times)   Russia TV, Al Jazeera the only networks to cover the third party presidential debate tonight. Potential audience: 760 million. Gary Johnson still pinching himself   (washingtontimes.com) divider line 239
    More: Interesting, Russia TV, human beings, 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, presidential debates, Ross Perot, Green Party, Mitt Romney  
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1588 clicks; posted to Politics » on 23 Oct 2012 at 8:00 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



239 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2012-10-23 10:55:19 AM
Potential audience: 760 million.
Number of those who actually have a vote in the matter: 35 (assuming there weren't any hot Fark Independent™ threads going just then).
 
2012-10-23 12:13:38 PM
I'll attempt to tune if if Vermin Supreme shows up.
 
2012-10-23 12:15:47 PM
Only four third party candidates? The socialist, the white nationalist and Vermin Supreme (lol) are conspicuously absent, and probably some others too. Were they excluded or did they back out? If the former, was it because they do not have enough of a percentage of support in the latest polls?
 
2012-10-23 12:43:35 PM
I voted yesterday and was disappointed to see that the Green Party was not on the Georgia ballot. I wasn't going to vote for them, but I was still disappointed.
 
2012-10-23 12:47:41 PM
This would actually be kind of entertaining to watch. Is it being live-streamed?
 
2012-10-23 02:10:48 PM
Oh, I get those channels on my Roku, so perhaps I will take a look.
 
2012-10-23 02:11:14 PM

DamnYankees: This would actually be kind of entertaining to watch. Is it being live-streamed?


FTFA: The debate is being shown Tuesday starting at 9 p.m. online at http://freeandequal.org
 
2012-10-23 02:15:42 PM

Rev. Skarekroe: I voted yesterday and was disappointed to see that the Green Party was not on the Georgia ballot. I wasn't going to vote for them, but I was still disappointed.


Voted today in Georgia. Lines were about an hour long at around 1:30pm.

I used the write in option. A lot.
 
2012-10-23 02:54:56 PM

Bontesla: I used the write in option. A lot.


Lizard People?
 
2012-10-23 03:29:06 PM
I think getting together and doing this as a live thread is only fair. I promise to be in a thread making snide comments, even if the admins only run it as TF. Who's with me?
 
2012-10-23 03:46:28 PM
Number of somehow-still-undecided who have enough brainpower to work their remote controls: 3,000.
 
2012-10-23 03:51:16 PM

dahmers love zombie: I think getting together and doing this as a live thread is only fair. I promise to be in a thread making snide comments, even if the admins only run it as TF. Who's with me?


Depends on if I'm able to tune in. I'm working all night. I'm I'm able to watch, I'll be there with bells on.
 
2012-10-23 03:51:59 PM

Bontesla: Rev. Skarekroe: I voted yesterday and was disappointed to see that the Green Party was not on the Georgia ballot. I wasn't going to vote for them, but I was still disappointed.

Voted today in Georgia. Lines were about an hour long at around 1:30pm.

I used the write in optionwasted my vote. A lot.


FTFY
 
2012-10-23 03:54:13 PM
of those 760 million, how many know that this debate is irrelevant, or will it be (disingenuously) broadcast as if it is important to those people?
 
2012-10-23 03:57:47 PM

Bontesla: Rev. Skarekroe: I voted yesterday and was disappointed to see that the Green Party was not on the Georgia ballot. I wasn't going to vote for them, but I was still disappointed.

Voted today in Georgia. Lines were about an hour long at around 1:30pm.

I used the write in option. A lot.


one less vote for obama. woohoo. though given it is georgia, irrelevant.
 
2012-10-23 03:59:02 PM

dahmers love zombie: I think getting together and doing this as a live thread is only fair. I promise to be in a thread making snide comments, even if the admins only run it as TF. Who's with me?


Better candidates and no football or playoff baseball to distract me. I'm in.
 
2012-10-23 04:04:35 PM

BravadoGT: Bontesla: Rev. Skarekroe: I voted yesterday and was disappointed to see that the Green Party was not on the Georgia ballot. I wasn't going to vote for them, but I was still disappointed.

Voted today in Georgia. Lines were about an hour long at around 1:30pm.

I used the write in optionwasted my vote. A lot.

FTFY


Not necessarily. Have you seen the number of unopposed candidates this year? I voted for my girlfriend for sheriff!
 
2012-10-23 04:14:11 PM
Is Bob Davies of the Female Circumcision Party showing up to this debate?
 
2012-10-23 06:21:26 PM

violentsalvation: dahmers love zombie: I think getting together and doing this as a live thread is only fair. I promise to be in a thread making snide comments, even if the admins only run it as TF. Who's with me?

Better candidates and no football or playoff baseball to distract me. I'm in.


How about we just convert this thread to the official one?
 
2012-10-23 06:41:04 PM

Rev. Skarekroe: BravadoGT: Bontesla: Rev. Skarekroe: I voted yesterday and was disappointed to see that the Green Party was not on the Georgia ballot. I wasn't going to vote for them, but I was still disappointed.

Voted today in Georgia. Lines were about an hour long at around 1:30pm.

I used the write in optionwasted my vote. A lot.

FTFY

Not necessarily. Have you seen the number of unopposed candidates this year? I voted for my girlfriend for sheriff!


I voted for her too - she gives a mean mustache ride...
 
2012-10-23 07:05:41 PM
Gee whiz.  When I was a kid I remember my older sister campaigning on behalf of John Anderson.
 
He ended up getting over five percent of the popular vote.
 
2012-10-23 07:10:42 PM

ShawnDoc: Bontesla: I used the write in option. A lot.

Lizard People?


Stephen Colbert.
 
2012-10-23 07:13:05 PM

BravadoGT: Bontesla: Rev. Skarekroe: I voted yesterday and was disappointed to see that the Green Party was not on the Georgia ballot. I wasn't going to vote for them, but I was still disappointed.

Voted today in Georgia. Lines were about an hour long at around 1:30pm.

I used the write in optionwasted my vote. A lot.

FTFY


[Citation needed]
 
2012-10-23 07:42:21 PM

dugitman: violentsalvation: dahmers love zombie: I think getting together and doing this as a live thread is only fair. I promise to be in a thread making snide comments, even if the admins only run it as TF. Who's with me?

Better candidates and no football or playoff baseball to distract me. I'm in.

How about we just convert this thread to the official one?


Yeah that's the easiest, we don't need two threads.
 
2012-10-23 08:07:19 PM
C-SPAN will stream at 9PM eastern. SD, not HD, but they tend to be very neutral.
 
2012-10-23 08:07:30 PM
www.washingtonpost.com

Romney takes Pakistan!
 
2012-10-23 08:07:59 PM

dahmers love zombie: I think getting together and doing this as a live thread is only fair. I promise to be in a thread making snide comments, even if the admins only run it as TF. Who's with me?


Dammit! My TF sponsorship ran out yesterday :(
 
2012-10-23 08:08:28 PM
You know, these 3rd, 4th, 5th parties all have their heads up their asses, and I mean that in the nicest possible way. They need to concentrate on small, local elections and work their way up the food chain and gain credibility instead of this silly nonsense of just putting some schmo up for president every four years. Yes, it'll take 20-30 years, but they may would actually have a chance in hell of doing something effective.
 
2012-10-23 08:10:41 PM

whistleridge: Potential audience: 760 million.
Number of those who actually have a vote in the matter: 35 (assuming there weren't any hot Fark Independent™ threads going just then).


Yes but for the exact reasons they are saying.

Quote of a Quote in the article:

"In the country that is often claimed to be the greatest democracy in the world, they are all excluded from all of the televised presidential debates,"

MSM including "Fair & Balanced" FOX News is not putting them on the air. They have every right to be on the air as they are legitimate parties with legitimate candidates. The media should be forced to air their debates just like they are for the Republican / Democrat showdown. 

Our country would be much better off if we were not forced into this 2 party system.
 
2012-10-23 08:17:45 PM
What's streaming now on that site?
 
2012-10-23 08:21:45 PM
Well, good luck Governor Johnson and the rest. Here is hoping you can rattle a few cages.

/he really should have run for the Senate first and tried for Prez in 2016
 
2012-10-23 08:24:15 PM

Johnny Swank: You know, these 3rd, 4th, 5th parties all have their heads up their asses, and I mean that in the nicest possible way. They need to concentrate on small, local elections and work their way up the food chain and gain credibility instead of this silly nonsense of just putting some schmo up for president every four years. Yes, it'll take 20-30 years, but they may would actually have a chance in hell of doing something effective.


But that would require time, hard work and, if elected, having to deal with reality by compromising with other people.

Much easier sit on the sidelines and whine that both sides are equally bad and therefore exactly the same while basking in their smug purity.

Kazrath: The media should be forced to air their debates just like they are for the Republican / Democrat showdown.


[citation needed]
 
2012-10-23 08:25:16 PM

Johnny Swank: You know, these 3rd, 4th, 5th parties all have their heads up their asses, and I mean that in the nicest possible way. They need to concentrate on small, local elections and work their way up the food chain and gain credibility instead of this silly nonsense of just putting some schmo up for president every four years. Yes, it'll take 20-30 years, but they may would actually have a chance in hell of doing something effective.


Some of us consider them the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th parties.

SO far as working the way up, have you ever tried that?

I have, The laws and rules are deliberately stacked against them by the R and D parties in order to prevent that.

There was, once, a thriving multi-party environment in this country. after the nations political environment stabilized small parties arose. For about a century starting in the 1820's, until the laws were changed to encourage first-past-the-post elections and eliminate at-large congressional elections, replaced by single district offices.

The entire system is rigged to make it defacto illegal for an alternative party to gain traction, without expressly writing it in the law.
 
2012-10-23 08:27:09 PM
On the one hand, it's great to see all these different candidates and see these ideas be represented.

On the other hand, most of these people are insane and none of them understand how politics work.
 
2012-10-23 08:28:58 PM
This guy has a real southern drawl
 
2012-10-23 08:29:01 PM
Virgil Goode sounds like a farking cartoon character. That's not his real voice, is it? Is that Sasha Baren Cohen?
 
2012-10-23 08:36:57 PM
HRaaarrh ehrr constiturrrtion weherrr fourrrndrn frrrthers hrrr taxerrs.
 
2012-10-23 08:37:20 PM
Well dammit, I have to go get the kid from gymnastics practice. I will try to be back by 9:20 or so. Snark on.

/I'll also try to keep on believing that people strongly care about whether I'm in the thread or not. It's the little things that count
//that's what she said
 
2012-10-23 08:39:34 PM
I like how they are interviewing them before the debate
 
2012-10-23 08:41:46 PM

tomWright: Johnny Swank: You know, these 3rd, 4th, 5th parties all have their heads up their asses, and I mean that in the nicest possible way. They need to concentrate on small, local elections and work their way up the food chain and gain credibility instead of this silly nonsense of just putting some schmo up for president every four years. Yes, it'll take 20-30 years, but they may would actually have a chance in hell of doing something effective.

Some of us consider them the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th parties.

SO far as working the way up, have you ever tried that?

I have, The laws and rules are deliberately stacked against them by the R and D parties in order to prevent that.

There was, once, a thriving multi-party environment in this country. after the nations political environment stabilized small parties arose. For about a century starting in the 1820's, until the laws were changed to encourage first-past-the-post elections and eliminate at-large congressional elections, replaced by single district offices.

The entire system is rigged to make it defacto illegal for an alternative party to gain traction, without expressly writing it in the law.


Aaaaaand THIS.

Many state ballot-access laws are some of the most notorious forms of legalized corruption. So why the fark would you bother running for the ultimate backbench spot in a legislature designed to shiat all over you even in the unlikely event you were to win? If the rules are set up to stifle you, fark it - swing for the fences.

Besides, Johnson's been governor of New Mexico and demonstrated there that he had his shiat together. We elected a governor from Arkansas and he seems to have done okay by more Americans than either of his successors.
 
2012-10-23 08:45:31 PM
I believe it's on DirecTV 375 - "Link" - in about 15 minutes. It's also streaming here.
 
2012-10-23 08:48:16 PM

silgryphon: I like how they are interviewing them before the debate


Moderator: If you want to join the Free and Equal debate, you have to really hate the two party system.
Candidate: I do!
Moderator: Oh yeah, how much?
Candidate: A lot!
Moderator: Right, you're in.
 
2012-10-23 08:52:43 PM
It's a damn pity that the republicans decided that Mitt was a better candidate than Johnson. Telling, really.
 
2012-10-23 08:54:21 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: [www.washingtonpost.com image 350x543]

Romney takes Pakistan!


Obama conducted covert ops inside their borders, acted without their consent, drone bomb the shiat out of them, killed dozens - possibly hundreds - of citizens, and Romney is only beating him by 3%.
 
2012-10-23 08:57:06 PM

tomWright: C-SPAN will stream at 9PM eastern. SD, not HD, but they tend to be very neutral.


Thanks I think I like that link better than the other one.
 
2012-10-23 08:58:29 PM
For this debate I am drinking straight sriracha sauce.
 
2012-10-23 08:59:02 PM
Woop it's go time
 
2012-10-23 08:59:33 PM
Did Larry King agree to this, or is he just drunk and bored of hookers?
 
2012-10-23 09:00:01 PM
Hey Audience scream and shout all night

YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
 
2012-10-23 09:00:06 PM
This is good late night tv so far.
 
2012-10-23 09:00:15 PM
Larry king!
 
2012-10-23 09:01:14 PM
Larry King apparently just found out he's doing this thing.
 
2012-10-23 09:01:45 PM
What the fark is that music? Holy balls that is awful
 
2012-10-23 09:02:16 PM
Did anyone else hear that wacky farking music, or did I just have a stroke?
 
2012-10-23 09:02:20 PM

silgryphon: What the fark is that music? Holy balls that is awful


I think aliens just landed.
 
2012-10-23 09:02:33 PM
So I think my stream died when Larry King looked directly into the cameras. They must not have put on the emerald lens protectors to shield the electronics from his Stygian gaze.
 
2012-10-23 09:02:59 PM
woo!
 
2012-10-23 09:03:20 PM
Ok, so not just me.

Are we getting trolled hard? I'm enjoying it. That must mean it isn't working.

Biatch can't stop laughing about the seriousness of her message.
 
2012-10-23 09:03:50 PM
K, switched to C-SPAN. This woman seems higher than a farking kite.
 
2012-10-23 09:04:21 PM
That was alot to read there girl
 
2012-10-23 09:04:46 PM

Johnny Swank: It's a damn pity that the republicans decided that Mitt was a better candidate than Johnson. Telling, really.


I'll give him credit for being pro-pot but economically, he's pushing the same free market derp that tanked the economy and socially, he has far too much faith in individual states.
 
2012-10-23 09:04:58 PM

Johnny Swank: It's a damn pity that the republicans decided that Mitt was a better candidate than Johnson. Telling, really.


The thing about Johnson is that he's lousy on TV. It sucks that that's a deal-breaker for so many people, but there you go. It's not crippling to be a poor public performer, though. Once upon a time Bill Clinton was lousy on TV, too.

I'm thinking one of those Huntsman daughters is going to have a great future in politics, but I don't know if America is ready for a smoking hot president.
 
2012-10-23 09:05:11 PM
I think she has one of those sound activated vibrators down her drawers. Larry doesn't look like he's having a good time.
 
2012-10-23 09:05:11 PM
stopjabbering and start questioning
 
2012-10-23 09:05:14 PM

sprawl15: K, switched to C-SPAN. This woman seems higher than a farking kite.


Knowledge sharing, truth seeking, loving one another, peace and kindness, want a hit bro?
 
2012-10-23 09:05:22 PM

sprawl15: K, switched to C-SPAN. This woman seems higher than a farking kite.


Big Bird sells the best shiat yo!
 
2012-10-23 09:05:38 PM
Larry King looked like he was about to choke a biatch.
 
2012-10-23 09:06:18 PM
Lots of empty seats. Can't imagine why
 
2012-10-23 09:06:39 PM
"I just ask some questions and sample the interns. Pretty pro gig."
 
2012-10-23 09:06:50 PM
Already better than the last 4 debates.
 
2012-10-23 09:07:30 PM
Questions are from social media sites. Should be interesting
 
2012-10-23 09:08:06 PM

whistleridge: Potential audience: 760 million.
Number of those who actually have a vote in the matter: 35 (assuming there weren't any hot Fark Independent™ threads going just then).


I'll watch it later w housemates and coworkers. We're all going Obama but not necessarily Dem for lower races.

And I watch Al Jazeera on a regular clip. They have some f--king GREAT short documentary/reporting segments, and the live stream has been my go to when shiat goes down in the ME for years.

/Actual Fark Independent Registerrd Voter ( != Fark Independent (TM))
 
2012-10-23 09:08:07 PM

silgryphon: Questions are from social media sites. Should be interesting


So of the six questions, eight will be about pot and maybe one about gold. Then some about how totally mean it is for the spoiler effect to exist.
 
2012-10-23 09:10:18 PM
Christina Tobin needs to stop smiling when she talks.
 
2012-10-23 09:10:49 PM
OATH KEEPER
 
2012-10-23 09:10:56 PM
What a strangely echo-chamber-y question...
 
2012-10-23 09:11:27 PM

tomWright: Johnny Swank: You know, these 3rd, 4th, 5th parties all have their heads up their asses, and I mean that in the nicest possible way. They need to concentrate on small, local elections and work their way up the food chain and gain credibility instead of this silly nonsense of just putting some schmo up for president every four years. Yes, it'll take 20-30 years, but they may would actually have a chance in hell of doing something effective.

Some of us consider them the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th parties.

SO far as working the way up, have you ever tried that?

I have, The laws and rules are deliberately stacked against them by the R and D parties in order to prevent that.

There was, once, a thriving multi-party environment in this country. after the nations political environment stabilized small parties arose. For about a century starting in the 1820's, until the laws were changed to encourage first-past-the-post elections and eliminate at-large congressional elections, replaced by single district offices.

The entire system is rigged to make it defacto illegal for an alternative party to gain traction, without expressly writing it in the law.


Agreed wholeheartedly.

Especially hate my state's BS practice where Judges and University reps are listed as non partisan... but are all nominated by the RNC or DNC. Real f--king non-partisan.
 
2012-10-23 09:11:31 PM
Public financing though. Good stuff.

Amendment to clarify money isn't speech and corporations aren't people? Weird.
 
2012-10-23 09:11:51 PM
He's using big words. DRINK!
 
2012-10-23 09:12:04 PM
Wow, first audience shot is an Oath Keeper.
 
2012-10-23 09:12:06 PM
Awesome so they are all going to say the same thing. Stupid farking question.
 
2012-10-23 09:12:27 PM
This is interesting insofar as it's an open letter to American Democracy. Otherwise I'm already losing interest.

The debate on Parks and Rec Season 4 Episode 21 was better.
 
2012-10-23 09:13:05 PM
Great question... if you could, please describe why you good folks are marginalized? Let's start this out as a whine fest.
 
2012-10-23 09:13:31 PM

CommieTaoist: DamnYankees: This would actually be kind of entertaining to watch. Is it being live-streamed?

FTFA: The debate is being shown Tuesday starting at 9 p.m. online at http://freeandequal.org


http://live.freeandequal.org/stream.html to be precise.
 
2012-10-23 09:13:34 PM

Ecobuckeye: Wow, first audience shot is an Oath Keeper.


He will not stand for a breakfast buffet that does not allow you to stay through the changeover to a lunch buffet.

violentsalvation: Awesome so they are all going to say the same thing. Stupid farking question.


Well, everyone just hates that they're irrelevant. It's understandable. It's just interesting the different approaches they take to being mad about it.
 
2012-10-23 09:13:55 PM

Min5trel: Let's start this out as a whine fest.


I only have beer.
 
2012-10-23 09:14:43 PM
Yeehaw lets git yer done Virgil
 
2012-10-23 09:14:59 PM
AH DO NAHT LAHK THE TAHP TWO SISTAHM
 
2012-10-23 09:15:56 PM

violentsalvation: Min5trel: Let's start this out as a whine fest.

I only have beer.


Brother, you read my mind.
 
2012-10-23 09:16:18 PM
Virgil Goode's nickname in high school was Dolan.
 
2012-10-23 09:17:02 PM

sprawl15: AH DO NAHT LAHK THE TAHP TWO SISTAHM


Where in shiat's name is he from?
 
2012-10-23 09:18:09 PM

BeesNuts: sprawl15: AH DO NAHT LAHK THE TAHP TWO SISTAHM

Where in shiat's name is he from?


Downs, Kentucky.
 
2012-10-23 09:19:07 PM
Is this gonna be a debate where everyone agrees on everything?
 
2012-10-23 09:19:29 PM
Gary Johnson was farking furious about how he was elected governor. That was kind odd.
 
2012-10-23 09:19:44 PM
This isn't a debate. It's a symposium against CPD. Which it should have been in symbol only. Ugh.
 
2012-10-23 09:20:37 PM
This isn't a debate.
 
2012-10-23 09:20:42 PM
Rocky makes some good points
 
2012-10-23 09:20:46 PM

sprawl15: Gary Johnson was farking furious about how he was elected governor. That was kind odd.


I think he was pissed that he was told he would never make it
 
2012-10-23 09:21:17 PM
Where's RON PAUL? Oh, right, he's a GOP shill who's too much of a pussy to risk his congressional seat. His legions of stoners and know-nothings, whom he is a god too, must be disappointed. At least Gary Johnson, or should I say GARY JOHNSON, has the balls to run as an actual Libertarian. I may not agree with him but I can respect him..

So, how many Russians will be voting this year?
 
2012-10-23 09:21:42 PM

BeesNuts: This isn't a debate. It's a symposium against CPD. Which it should have been in symbol only. Ugh.


its just the first question, settle down bucky
 
2012-10-23 09:22:23 PM
100% trasnparency from Gary
 
2012-10-23 09:22:52 PM
Obama or Romney will put your white babies in concentration camps. Drones use explosives while bombers and machine guns do not.

Thanks Gary.
 
2012-10-23 09:22:53 PM

sprawl15: BeesNuts: sprawl15: AH DO NAHT LAHK THE TAHP TWO SISTAHM

Where in shiat's name is he from?

Downs, Kentucky.


Well done.
 
2012-10-23 09:23:29 PM

sprawl15: Drones use explosives cause collateral damage while bombers and machine guns do not.


/ftfm
//this is good sriracha
 
2012-10-23 09:23:29 PM
Drug question

that was quick
 
2012-10-23 09:23:42 PM
lol
 
2012-10-23 09:23:52 PM

danknerd: BeesNuts: This isn't a debate. It's a symposium against CPD. Which it should have been in symbol only. Ugh.

its just the first question, settle down bucky


Ok, let's talk.

Question 2:

How you feel about drugs dawg.

"How about an opening statement?"

"Uh. Ok. Two minutes."

LOL
 
2012-10-23 09:24:09 PM
OMG. major fark up there
 
2012-10-23 09:25:01 PM
Larry King botched
 
2012-10-23 09:25:04 PM
madhattermagicshop.com

/and I love it, so don't think I'm hating. But this is a circus.
 
2012-10-23 09:26:19 PM
"I don't farking know, I just work here."
-Larry King
 
2012-10-23 09:28:02 PM
Did he just say he wants to improve our rate of women dying during childbirth? I mean, I get that overpopulation is a problem and that having a kid is one of the most carbon-relevant decisions a person can make, but that's a bit harsh.
 
2012-10-23 09:28:43 PM
www.anvari.org
 
2012-10-23 09:28:57 PM
I mean. They're right. About most things. And they're BSABS-Vote third party message has credibility. So there's that.

Thank you for bein' HEE-ah
 
2012-10-23 09:29:33 PM
They so need a couple of empty chairs up there...
 
2012-10-23 09:30:14 PM
Cletus just brought a new idea to the table. Green Card Moratorium until UE is under 5%. Interesting. We can talk about that.
 
2012-10-23 09:31:25 PM
Gary cares a lot. Message of the evening. Like Passionately Cares About Whatever the Internet Cares About.
 
2012-10-23 09:31:39 PM

BeesNuts: Cletus just brought a new idea to the table. Green Card Moratorium until UE is under 5%. Interesting. We can talk about that.


Just hope if you're an American you never fall in love with someone who is not an American. And if you're an employer/researcher, you don't want the best person for the job but rather hire by nationality.
 
2012-10-23 09:32:36 PM
Fair tax ftw
 
2012-10-23 09:32:44 PM

WorldCitizen: BeesNuts: Cletus just brought a new idea to the table. Green Card Moratorium until UE is under 5%. Interesting. We can talk about that.

Just hope if you're an American you never fall in love with someone who is not an American. And if you're an employer/researcher, you don't want the best person for the job but rather hire by nationality.


Oh it's insane. But it's not something we've talked about for the past 4 years. So it's interesting.

But yeah. Completely insane. Companies would just outsource. Duh.
 
2012-10-23 09:32:52 PM

violentsalvation: [www.anvari.org image 500x500]


That's exactly what I was thinking.
 
2012-10-23 09:33:45 PM
What is this clicky-poppy nonsense. Am I downloading this off of Kazaa?
 
2012-10-23 09:33:57 PM

BeesNuts: Gary cares a lot. Message of the evening. Like Passionately Cares About Whatever the Internet Cares About.


Yes, that was quite interesting.
It's like he was reading a checklist, although one I agree with a lot.
 
2012-10-23 09:34:15 PM

WorldCitizen: BeesNuts: Cletus just brought a new idea to the table. Green Card Moratorium until UE is under 5%. Interesting. We can talk about that.

Just hope if you're an American you never fall in love with someone who is not an American. And if you're an employer/researcher, you don't want the best person for the job person who falsified his resume but works a lot cheaper but rather hire by nationality.


FTFY, no charge.
 
2012-10-23 09:35:05 PM
Cory Stringfellow was arrested for providing 5,100 doses of LSD to a dealer in another state.

Interesting choice as an example.
 
2012-10-23 09:35:39 PM
Booo Cletus BOOOO
 
2012-10-23 09:35:44 PM
Damnit! Get Jill back on... I lost my dog and I need to get him back to the house.
 
2012-10-23 09:36:18 PM
Larry King said we're on drugs! HA! Nice!
 
2012-10-23 09:36:51 PM
Larry King just reminded all the participants, "We're on drugs now".
 
2012-10-23 09:37:28 PM

silgryphon: Booo Cletus BOOOO


Hehehehe yeah. This is pretty good.
 
2012-10-23 09:38:02 PM
He just flip flopped on that

I do smoke, I don't smoke
 
2012-10-23 09:38:05 PM

cepson: Larry King just reminded all the participants, "We're on drugs now".


The trip must be kicking in for Larry
 
2012-10-23 09:38:36 PM

silgryphon: He just flip flopped on that

I do smoke, I don't smoke


I have smoked, I don't smoke. A little different.
 
2012-10-23 09:38:38 PM
Gary Johnson is pretty good on the drug stuff.
 
2012-10-23 09:39:18 PM

BeesNuts: silgryphon: He just flip flopped on that

I do smoke, I don't smoke

I have smoked, I don't smoke. A little different.


Gotcha
 
2012-10-23 09:39:35 PM
I want meth to be sold in Walgreens and that was a pretty pathetic round of justification.
 
2012-10-23 09:40:43 PM
I ... I can't watch.
 
2012-10-23 09:41:44 PM
Do you want to rebut? Do you want to rebut?

Three orange rebuts.
 
2012-10-23 09:42:16 PM
I have a story

Larry: You got one minute
 
2012-10-23 09:42:36 PM
If cocaine were legal, they'd be using crack. C'mon Gary.
 
2012-10-23 09:43:17 PM
At least Virgil gets right to the farking point. Two points for Foghorn.
 
2012-10-23 09:43:24 PM
OK Cletus, you don't have my vote.
 
2012-10-23 09:43:43 PM
This is amateurish and disorganized. And Romney and Obama should both have to be part of it.
 
2012-10-23 09:44:38 PM
I agree with Cletus on that
 
2012-10-23 09:45:38 PM
Gary Johnson actually explaining how he will do it

Kudos
 
2012-10-23 09:45:59 PM
Is Gary reading a brochure?

"A bunch of things reduce our footprint, like bases overseas and intelligence and Columbian girls and...WE NEED TO END DRONES"
 
2012-10-23 09:46:02 PM
45 minutes for an opening statement sandwiched between two questions.
 
2012-10-23 09:46:47 PM
Rocky single handily defeat the commies back in the 80s, so yeah too bad he isn't on the ballot in AZ
 
2012-10-23 09:48:02 PM
Jill Stein sounds a bit like a drone herself.
 
2012-10-23 09:48:21 PM

buzzcut73: WorldCitizen: BeesNuts: Cletus just brought a new idea to the table. Green Card Moratorium until UE is under 5%. Interesting. We can talk about that.

Just hope if you're an American you never fall in love with someone who is not an American. And if you're an employer/researcher, you don't want the best person for the job person who falsified his resume but works a lot cheaper but rather hire by nationality.

FTFY, no charge.


More of an issue with H1B and not permanent residency. H1B holders are often terrified of speaking up about less pay or awful treatment as they are at the total mercy of their bosses for remaining in the US. That means things like if they have kids here in school, they could be ripped up from school and the country they know at any minute of the H1B boss decides to fire the H1B holder. Not so with a US permanent resident (green card holder).
 
2012-10-23 09:48:32 PM
What the fark is their issue with drones? I really don't understand this, is it somehow better if we drop a bomb from an actual plane or shoot a missile from a nearby cruiser? It sounds like their real problem is killing people, but focusing it on drones is just bizarre.
 
2012-10-23 09:49:03 PM
Rocky invokes Ike, slam your drink, get another and slam that too!
 
2012-10-23 09:49:57 PM
Climate change and military spending. Off track there buddy
 
2012-10-23 09:51:24 PM
I think Jill and Rocky would make a cute couple. Gary and Virgil, not so much.
 
2012-10-23 09:52:06 PM
Wow, he mentioned Kellogg-Briand as an example of how to prevent wars...the treaty that was so vaguely defined that it pushed governments to war without actually declaring war, and was pretty much the reason the War Powers Resolution had to be passed.
 
2012-10-23 09:52:09 PM

sprawl15: What the fark is their issue with drones? I really don't understand this, is it somehow better if we drop a bomb from an actual plane or shoot a missile from a nearby cruiser? It sounds like their real problem is killing people, but focusing it on drones is just bizarre.


because drones are a cowards weapon, it totally dis-associates the killing of person as just an image on a screen. Cause any SAP on a couch can operate a drone, any punk motherfarker can bust slugs, but it takes a real thug to stab some starring straight into their eyes (get the point?). plus drones can be used for spying on American citizens and invasion of privacy via "public air" above your home, in parks, etc..
 
2012-10-23 09:52:39 PM
Gary was against Iraq before it was cool.
 
2012-10-23 09:52:42 PM

ole prophet: Johnson


He'd never win, not in NM at least. We here may get pissed at the (Democrat) state legislature and elect a Republican governor every once in a while. However, the only thing we really want out of our senators is for them to bring the federal dollars back by the boatload.
 
2012-10-23 09:52:58 PM
It's hard to do "rebuttals" when 3 of the 4 candidates are basically of one mind.
 
2012-10-23 09:53:04 PM

danknerd: sprawl15: What the fark is their issue with drones? I really don't understand this, is it somehow better if we drop a bomb from an actual plane or shoot a missile from a nearby cruiser? It sounds like their real problem is killing people, but focusing it on drones is just bizarre.

because drones are a cowards weapon, it totally dis-associates the killing of person as just an image on a screen. Cause any SAP on a couch can operate a drone, any punk motherfarker can bust slugs, but it takes a real thug to stab some starring straight into their eyes (get the point?). plus drones can be used for spying on American citizens and invasion of privacy via "public air" above your home, in parks, etc..


*stab someone starring straight into their eyes
 
2012-10-23 09:53:44 PM

danknerd: because drones are a cowards weapon, it totally dis-associates the killing of person as just an image on a screen. Cause any SAP on a couch can operate a drone, any punk motherfarker can bust slugs, but it takes a real thug to stab some starring straight into their eyes (get the point?).


You do know that missileers on a cruiser don't ride the missile to the target and then stab them, right?

/poe's law-ing hard
 
2012-10-23 09:56:02 PM
I just figured it out, Virgil Goode reminds me of any random lawyer from a John Grisham book.
 
2012-10-23 09:56:41 PM

sprawl15: What the fark is their issue with drones? I really don't understand this, is it somehow better if we drop a bomb from an actual plane or shoot a missile from a nearby cruiser? It sounds like their real problem is killing people, but focusing it on drones is just bizarre.


Cause NDAA and WIKILEAKS. Also weed.
 
2012-10-23 09:58:45 PM

sprawl15: danknerd: because drones are a cowards weapon, it totally dis-associates the killing of person as just an image on a screen. Cause any SAP on a couch can operate a drone, any punk motherfarker can bust slugs, but it takes a real thug to stab some starring straight into their eyes (get the point?).

You do know that missileers on a cruiser don't ride the missile to the target and then stab them, right?

/poe's law-ing hard


same principle... who has more courage a suicide bomber or bombers in a b-2?
 
2012-10-23 10:00:22 PM
C'mon... REBUTTAL! Y'know, like disagreeing with the other guys.
/Please?
 
2012-10-23 10:01:18 PM

danknerd: sprawl15: danknerd: because drones are a cowards weapon, it totally dis-associates the killing of person as just an image on a screen. Cause any SAP on a couch can operate a drone, any punk motherfarker can bust slugs, but it takes a real thug to stab some starring straight into their eyes (get the point?).

You do know that missileers on a cruiser don't ride the missile to the target and then stab them, right?

/poe's law-ing hard

same principle... who has more courage a suicide bomber or bombers in a b-2?


It isn't about courage, its about killing the people you want to kill and keeping your troops as safe as can be.
 
2012-10-23 10:02:20 PM

Min5trel: C'mon... REBUTTAL! Y'know, like disagreeing with the other guys.
/Please?


I agree with this comment on rebuttals. I agree with most of the people about rebuttals.

Any rebuttals?
 
2012-10-23 10:03:29 PM
I love the outrage over the NDAA but nobody gives a shiat that these powers were implicit in the 9/11 AUMF.
 
2012-10-23 10:04:14 PM
Ah, there ya go Jill. Couldn't name it, but at least you mentioned it.
 
2012-10-23 10:09:30 PM
RON PAUL
 
2012-10-23 10:09:49 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Romney takes Pakistan!


In all honesty, this means we should want Romney. Who is best for us is worst for the rest of the world.
 
2012-10-23 10:09:51 PM
RONPAUL
 
2012-10-23 10:10:51 PM
If I could write a Constitutional amendment that would be guaranteed to be passed? I'd write one that says I can change the Constitution at will. You never waste a wish for unlimited wishes. Morons.
 
2012-10-23 10:10:52 PM
any one gotthat aclu report handy?
 
2012-10-23 10:11:49 PM

sprawl15: What the fark is their issue with drones? I really don't understand this, is it somehow better if we drop a bomb from an actual plane or shoot a missile from a nearby cruiser? It sounds like their real problem is killing people, but focusing it on drones is just bizarre.


It's the strangest damned pandering I've ever done seen. Did they all go hang out at Reddit for a week before this thing?
 
2012-10-23 10:12:51 PM
Knife through hot butter?
 
2012-10-23 10:13:38 PM
This has been a far more enjoyable experience than I expected. And while I would never vote for Virgil Goode for anything, I love listening to him. Jill is a bit unprepared, but Rocky's got her back. Gary looks a bit feral, but at least he knows where he stands and what he wants to do.
 
2012-10-23 10:13:39 PM
Virgil will amend the constitution to...eliminate tar limits? Is that environmental or something?

tomWright: any one gotthat aclu report handy?


PDF warning

Their site sucks, but from the google results it looks like it's a different organization than the ACLU proper.
 
2012-10-23 10:14:41 PM

sprawl15: Their site sucks, but from the google results it looks like it's a different organization than the ACLU proper.


Disregard. Their site finally decided to load:
The ACLU Liberty Watch 2012 Campaign is a campaign of the American Civil Liberties Union, an organization exempt from tax under Section 501(c)(4) of the Internal Revenue Code, that is engaged in the mission of defending the rights guaranteed under the U.S. Constitution, including First Amendment freedoms, equality, privacy rights and fundamental fairness. It is a separate entity from the American Civil Liberties Union Foundation, an organization exempt from tax under Section 501(c)(3) of the Code. While the American Civil Liberties Union and the American Civil Liberties Union Foundation share the same mission, it is necessary that this mission be undertaken by two separate organizations.
 
2012-10-23 10:16:10 PM
Jill for the Citizens United smackdown!
 
2012-10-23 10:18:48 PM

sprawl15: Virgil will amend the constitution to...eliminate tar limits? Is that environmental or something?

tomWright: any one gotthat aclu report handy?

PDF warning

Their site sucks, but from the google results it looks like it's a different organization than the ACLU proper.


thanks. I wonder how they determine the candidates positions? Direct questionnaire or following speeches? Some other way?
 
2012-10-23 10:20:03 PM
Notice how none of these people will push for a constitutional amendment that allows third parties to enter the system.
 
2012-10-23 10:20:44 PM

BeesNuts: sprawl15: What the fark is their issue with drones? I really don't understand this, is it somehow better if we drop a bomb from an actual plane or shoot a missile from a nearby cruiser? It sounds like their real problem is killing people, but focusing it on drones is just bizarre.

It's the strangest damned pandering I've ever done seen. Did they all go hang out at Reddit for a week before this thing?


Well, the rest of the world isnt as keen on drones as Americans are. So it is somewhat responsible to at least know and understand the worlds popular opinion, even if we dont agree.

And yes, it is primarily about remotely killing people off the battle field without due process,
 
2012-10-23 10:20:53 PM
Johnson sounds like the sanest candidate the LP has ever nominates since....the 1980's????
 
2012-10-23 10:22:33 PM

Frederick: And yes, it is primarily about remotely killing people off the battle field without due process,


Again, what's the difference between a drone and lobbing a missile from a cruiser or just using a manned aerial vehicle?

If the person doesn't get due process, it doesn't matter who drops the bomb on him.
 
2012-10-23 10:23:21 PM
It's already almost over and I'm only one beer in.
 
2012-10-23 10:24:21 PM

violentsalvation: It's already almost over and I'm only one beer in.


Maybe they'll do opening statements soon.
 
2012-10-23 10:25:55 PM
Fantastic photobomb. I love it.
 
2012-10-23 10:26:08 PM

violentsalvation: It's already almost over and I'm only one beer in.


So you are saying you have to be drunk to listen to Romney or Obama, but not these guys.

That says something. not sure what though
 
2012-10-23 10:26:44 PM
A little condescending, there, Larry. They're not just being good sports--they really believe they should be president.
 
2012-10-23 10:27:47 PM
Ladies and gentlemen: the next Mrs. Larry King.
 
2012-10-23 10:28:10 PM
guess, green and libertarian will continues debates for next 2 weeks
 
2012-10-23 10:28:30 PM

cepson: A little condescending, there, Larry. They're not just being good sports--they really believe they should be president.


Yeah. Honest, but maybe not completely appropriate just in good manners.

And she is very giggly.
 
2012-10-23 10:28:35 PM
woooooow

wow

wooooow
woow

wowwwwwww

woooowowwwww
 
2012-10-23 10:28:52 PM
Stop laughing Christina.
 
2012-10-23 10:30:06 PM

tomWright: violentsalvation: It's already almost over and I'm only one beer in.

So you are saying you have to be drunk to listen to Romney or Obama, but not these guys.

That says something. not sure what though


I watched something worthwhile during those debates. MLB playoff games.
 
2012-10-23 10:30:19 PM
half nailed it
 
2012-10-23 10:31:15 PM
looks like http://freeandequal.org/ is already farked
 
2012-10-23 10:31:25 PM
OH MY GOD NEW YORK SENATE DEBATE LIGHTNING ROUND FARK YEAH
 
2012-10-23 10:31:46 PM
Dear lord, that "music" again. Were they gassing the band as they tried to play?
 
2012-10-23 10:32:20 PM

GanjSmokr: I believe it's on DirecTV 375 - "Link" - in about 15 minutes. It's also streaming here.



GOT DAMMIT!  I just saw the "good night people"  part.
 
2012-10-23 10:35:08 PM
What were the six questions again?
 
2012-10-23 10:39:09 PM

ipsofacto: What were the six questions again?


Do you hate the two party system, do you want to legalize drugs, oh fark forgot the opening statements, do you want to Syria, should education be free, and if you could wish for anything what would it be.
 
2012-10-23 10:41:06 PM
There was also the question about indefinite detention.
 
2012-10-23 10:43:47 PM
OK, voting is up at freeandequal
 
2012-10-23 10:46:19 PM

tomWright: OK, voting is up at freeandequal


I don't see the audio-triggered vibrator on the list.
 
2012-10-23 10:49:33 PM

sprawl15: tomWright: OK, voting is up at freeandequal

I don't see the audio-triggered vibrator on the list.


You need the new iPwned 6 for that
 
2012-10-23 10:51:27 PM

tomWright: OK, voting is up at freeandequal


I voted Johnson, Anderson, Stein and Goode in that order.
 
2012-10-23 10:53:24 PM

buzzcut73: tomWright: OK, voting is up at freeandequal

I voted Johnson, Anderson, Stein and Goode in that order.


My list was the same.
 
2012-10-23 10:54:37 PM

sprawl15: do you want to Syria


The whole thing?
 
2012-10-23 10:58:25 PM
I voted Johnson, Anderson, Goode and Stein but I don't know if it took my vote, it just went to a white page. I'll try again later.
 
2012-10-23 10:59:42 PM
Whoever else is running, Gary Johnson is just a farking scam.

Gulper Eel: tomWright: Johnny Swank: You know, these 3rd, 4th, 5th parties all have their heads up their asses, and I mean that in the nicest possible way. They need to concentrate on small, local elections and work their way up the food chain and gain credibility instead of this silly nonsense of just putting some schmo up for president every four years. Yes, it'll take 20-30 years, but they may would actually have a chance in hell of doing something effective.

Some of us consider them the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th parties.

SO far as working the way up, have you ever tried that?

I have, The laws and rules are deliberately stacked against them by the R and D parties in order to prevent that.

There was, once, a thriving multi-party environment in this country. after the nations political environment stabilized small parties arose. For about a century starting in the 1820's, until the laws were changed to encourage first-past-the-post elections and eliminate at-large congressional elections, replaced by single district offices.

The entire system is rigged to make it defacto illegal for an alternative party to gain traction, without expressly writing it in the law.

Aaaaaand THIS.

Many state ballot-access laws are some of the most notorious forms of legalized corruption. So why the fark would you bother running for the ultimate backbench spot in a legislature designed to shiat all over you even in the unlikely event you were to win? If the rules are set up to stifle you, fark it - swing for the fences.

Besides, Johnson's been governor of New Mexico and demonstrated there that he had his shiat together. We elected a governor from Arkansas and he seems to have done okay by more Americans than either of his successors.


Because it won't work?

Ballot access laws are a hassle but they aren't a barrier, and whining about them is especially ridiculous for the only third party with money and numbers (Libertarians) since it's less of a barrier of entry than being homeless is to getting back out of being homeless. Not to mention running for president is at least as hard (if not harder) than getting your name on the ballot for congresscritter.

But there is a simpler problem, it's the same problem as above, Libertarians have enough money and pull to grab house seats, maybe even Senate seats if they could/would communistically focus the national campaign money into a local race. Locals fight their local fights, but none of them are organized/funded enough to win those local seats, and national players fight for the Presidency with the same problems and results.

And they aren't necessarily wrong. If a non-corrupt Gary Johnson (900 FARKING DOLLARS until the internet started SHAMING him into doing more, and not much at that) sent all his money to get some no-name in Indiana (or wherever) into the House of Representatives there is a decent chance his followers and donors would biatch and complain that he was wasting proud Texan dollars (or wherever) on stupid other states. biatch, complain, and not donate next year.

Is that true? I don't know as I'm not a pollster or a psychic but I can understand the fear it might be true.

Also one further problem is that most third parties' official platforms are batshiat insane and/or fairly incoherent. The LP has members, (weird, mostly-disavowed members, but members nonetheless) who promote the reinstatement of sodomy laws. That works if you're throwing stones from the sidelines but it doesn't work as a real national player.
 
2012-10-23 11:17:35 PM

TheBigJerk: Whoever else is running, Gary Johnson is just a farking scam.

Gulper Eel: tomWright: Johnny Swank: You know, these 3rd, 4th, 5th parties all have their heads up their asses, and I mean that in the nicest possible way. They need to concentrate on small, local elections and work their way up the food chain and gain credibility instead of this silly nonsense of just putting some schmo up for president every four years. Yes, it'll take 20-30 years, but they may would actually have a chance in hell of doing something effective.

Some of us consider them the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th parties.

SO far as working the way up, have you ever tried that?

I have, The laws and rules are deliberately stacked against them by the R and D parties in order to prevent that.

There was, once, a thriving multi-party environment in this country. after the nations political environment stabilized small parties arose. For about a century starting in the 1820's, until the laws were changed to encourage first-past-the-post elections and eliminate at-large congressional elections, replaced by single district offices.

The entire system is rigged to make it defacto illegal for an alternative party to gain traction, without expressly writing it in the law.

Aaaaaand THIS.

Many state ballot-access laws are some of the most notorious forms of legalized corruption. So why the fark would you bother running for the ultimate backbench spot in a legislature designed to shiat all over you even in the unlikely event you were to win? If the rules are set up to stifle you, fark it - swing for the fences.

Besides, Johnson's been governor of New Mexico and demonstrated there that he had his shiat together. We elected a governor from Arkansas and he seems to have done okay by more Americans than either of his successors.

Because it won't work?

Ballot access laws are a hassle but they aren't a barrier, and whining about them is especially ridiculous for the only third party with money and numbers (Libertarians) ...


a sodomy law has no footing on a libertarian platform.
 
2012-10-23 11:23:18 PM

BeesNuts: Cletus just brought a new idea to the table. Green Card Moratorium until UE is under 5%. Interesting. We can talk about that.

 
2012-10-23 11:27:30 PM

Girion47: a sodomy law has no footing on a libertarian platform.


No LOGICAL footing, but I have met LP members who support such things loudly and proudly who still get invitations and still speak "for the party" and don't get particularly shouted at or silenced by their fellows. It is because the party can't afford to ostracize anyone willing to claim membership and lack the coherency to do so. And these members manage to twist logic until they come up with an "interpretation" of the Libertarian philosophy that promotes oppressing the gays. Usually with lots of whining about "shoving their gayness down our throats" because what would a good homophobe be without his unintentional and oblivious innuendo.

It i a small issue, a result of the party being too small to turn anyone away as much as anything, but another obstacle to larger recognition/acceptance.
 
2012-10-23 11:34:33 PM

StreetlightInTheGhetto: tomWright: Johnny Swank: You know, these 3rd, 4th, 5th parties all have their heads up their asses, and I mean that in the nicest possible way. They need to concentrate on small, local elections and work their way up the food chain and gain credibility instead of this silly nonsense of just putting some schmo up for president every four years. Yes, it'll take 20-30 years, but they may would actually have a chance in hell of doing something effective.

Some of us consider them the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th parties.

SO far as working the way up, have you ever tried that?

I have, The laws and rules are deliberately stacked against them by the R and D parties in order to prevent that.

There was, once, a thriving multi-party environment in this country. after the nations political environment stabilized small parties arose. For about a century starting in the 1820's, until the laws were changed to encourage first-past-the-post elections and eliminate at-large congressional elections, replaced by single district offices.

The entire system is rigged to make it defacto illegal for an alternative party to gain traction, without expressly writing it in the law.

Agreed wholeheartedly.

Especially hate my state's BS practice where Judges and University reps are listed as non partisan... but are all nominated by the RNC or DNC. Real f--king non-partisan.


In many cases in my state, the same person runs on the Democratic and Republican lines for a judgeship. However, that seems to be changing a bit lately at the state level. At the local level, if both candidates nominate somebody for an office, I get to choose between John Smith the Democrat, and John Smith the Republican.
 
2012-10-23 11:38:29 PM

TheBigJerk: Girion47: a sodomy law has no footing on a libertarian platform.

No LOGICAL footing, but I have met LP members who support such things loudly and proudly who still get invitations and still speak "for the party" and don't get particularly shouted at or silenced by their fellows. It is because the party can't afford to ostracize anyone willing to claim membership and lack the coherency to do so. And these members manage to twist logic until they come up with an "interpretation" of the Libertarian philosophy that promotes oppressing the gays. Usually with lots of whining about "shoving their gayness down our throats" because what would a good homophobe be without his unintentional and oblivious innuendo.

It i a small issue, a result of the party being too small to turn anyone away as much as anything, but another obstacle to larger recognition/acceptance.


well as a member, those assholes can kiss my ass.
 
2012-10-23 11:57:24 PM

sprawl15: Frederick: And yes, it is primarily about remotely killing people off the battle field without due process,

Again, what's the difference between a drone and lobbing a missile from a cruiser or just using a manned aerial vehicle?

If the person doesn't get due process, it doesn't matter who drops the bomb on him.


Effectively there is no difference. Drone use is far more prevalent than those others; and perhaps more offensive due to the anonymous and detached nature of the killing. I can also understand those who do not have the technology being particularly offended.

Personally, I think drones are a huge technological military advantage. I wish though that we didnt use them so indiscriminately and off battlefield. I disagree with their use in fighting terrorism or crime. I endorse their use against uniformed military opponents.
 
2012-10-24 12:13:13 AM

Frederick: And yes, it is primarily about remotely killing people off the battle field without due process,


Okay, so what's the difference between using a drone and using an assassin? ...or an elite black ops squad?
 
2012-10-24 01:30:58 AM

Ishkur: Frederick: And yes, it is primarily about remotely killing people off the battle field without due process,

Okay, so what's the difference between using a drone and using an assassin? ...or an elite black ops squad?


I am becoming unclear about the direction of questions. What are you getting at?

Effectively there is no difference. They were both against our law at one point in time. The War Against Terror (TWAT) changed all that.

The subject of drone use is relevant to foreign policy due to the offense it generates among the world; whether or not Americans agree or even understand.
 
2012-10-24 02:43:46 AM

Frederick: I am becoming unclear about the direction of questions. What are you getting at?


I was wondering what the opposition to drone use was (just curious), and the phrase "remotely killing people off the battle field without due process" was said. Well, that's been going on well before drone use, so what's the issue?
 
2012-10-24 03:16:03 AM

Ishkur: Frederick: I am becoming unclear about the direction of questions. What are you getting at?

I was wondering what the opposition to drone use was (just curious), and the phrase "remotely killing people off the battle field without due process" was said. Well, that's been going on well before drone use, so what's the issue?


Ah. If I understand correctly the context is on regard to foreign relations and opposition, not domestic opposition (although that occurs too). Under US law, before the war against terror (because I like the twat acronym) extra judicial killing -assassinations- were officially illegal. It may have happened prior, but it was much more clandestine and never officially sanctioned. I cant recall of a single event where a Bin Laden type figure was killed before (I will google it shortly).

IMHO, the opposition is about the killings; the drone use just makes that opposition more offended. It is seen as blatant, cowardly, and immoral -and uniquely American. And since the US is perceived as the worlds #1 antagonist, any offense is elevated. 

I think it is important to understand the motivations of those who claim to be our enemies whether or not I agree with them.
 
2012-10-24 03:18:35 AM

TheBigJerk: Whoever else is running, Gary Johnson is just a farking scam.


You're a fool. If you look at the other candidates, you may discover that the smaller the campaign, the larger the share going to admin. I doubt you're smart enough to figure out why, but have a go.
 
2012-10-24 03:29:12 AM
True. I was thinking mostly domestically (of course the international community is going to be upset. They get upset when the President mispronounces their country's names, there's no pleasing them. It's hopeless to even try).

But it would seem rather silly for the Republicans to condemn the Obama Administration for relying heavily on drone strike campaigns when they spent a decade torturing and imprisoning people indefinitely. It's like Gary Ridgeway calling James Holmes a psychopath.

Then again, if the Nuremberg laws were applied today, it's likely that every President since WWII would have to be hanged. Taking the moral high ground has never been a characteristic of American governments.

Drone missions don't put any Americans in harms way. So they got that going for it.
 
2012-10-24 04:46:05 AM
Drones are useful surveillance tools over hostile areas. I remember being shocked when that first one fired a missile and killed some AQ. Wait they can do that? It was a good conversation I had with my childhood friend who now pilots them.

The disconnect of killing someone on the other side of the planet and then eating papa johns with the kids two hours later is not good, and there's no denying that. I like that we have the option and the capability though. I hope the oversight and the beforehand intelligence is outstanding, or else our mindless aerial automatons are no better than their mindless suicide-bombing automatons.
 
2012-10-24 05:01:49 AM
 
2012-10-24 08:20:12 AM

Frederick: IMHO, the opposition is about the killings; the drone use just makes that opposition more offended. It is seen as blatant, cowardly, and immoral -and uniquely American.


None of that had anything to do with the complaints during the debate. They argued either as if drones were exceptionally unconstitutional or as if drones had the unique problem of causing collateral damage. Both are total nonsense.
 
2012-10-24 08:47:48 AM

TheBigJerk: It i a small issue, a result of the party being too small to turn anyone away as much as anything, but another obstacle to larger recognition/acceptance.


Worked for a Democrat running for a House seat in Washington state several years ago. It was a long shot in a conservative district but maybe with the right national tide we might have a chance. There was also a Libetarian candidate running. Figured he might take a couple percentage points off the Republican incumbent. When we finally wrangled a debate schedule, we didn't object to him being included in the first debate.

Big mistake. In his opening statement, he endorsed the Republican incumbent and then spent the rest of the debate spouting Republican talking points. Utter joke.

Same year, the Green party in Seattle nominated a guy running on a Purity of Bodily Fluids platform - anti-vaxxer and anti-fluoride. But I guess when you're running against Jim McDermott, there's not a lot of room on the Left without going into la-la land.

Like you said, it's a consequence of being too small to turn the nut jobs away.
 
2012-10-24 09:21:24 AM

knobmaker: TheBigJerk: Whoever else is running, Gary Johnson is just a farking scam.

You're a fool. If you look at the other candidates, you may discover that the smaller the campaign, the larger the share going to admin. I doubt you're smart enough to figure out why, but have a go.


Additionally, Johnson's raised a total of barely a million bucks.

By way of comparison, there's one single Crossroads GPS superPAC media buy for just Ohio and Wisconsin kicking in this week that's going for $4.2 million.

The best Johnson could hope for with this million of his, were he to spend it on traditional media, is to spend the lot of it in the last minute in one market in hopes of farking up one state's race.
 
2012-10-24 09:22:33 AM

Aexia: Like you said, it's a consequence of being too small to turn the nut jobs away.


Do you think the Republicans or Democrats are getting to 50%+1 without nutjobs?
 
2012-10-24 09:25:46 AM

Gulper Eel: The best Johnson could hope for with this million of his, were he to spend it on traditional media, is to spend the lot of it in the last minute in one market in hopes of farking up one state's race.


It's much more effective to give it to advisers.
 
2012-10-24 09:28:55 AM

Frederick: It is seen as blatant, cowardly, and immoral -and uniquely American. And since the US is perceived as the worlds #1 antagonist, any offense is elevated.


You're saying that the world doesn't appreciate the fact that America can kill people from afar without having any real vested interest in the process. No Americans were Harmed in the Making of this Assassination, and all that.

I'll happily concede that this does indeed create a moral dilemma, but Cowardly, Immoral and Blatant? That's just throwing mean words around. 300 years ago, it would have been considered Cowardly to not march in column across an open field at your opponent. 100 years ago, it was considered cowardly to not run directly towards machine gun fire.

War is becoming a MORE precise process, not less. The collateral, as well as direct casualties are dropping. Drones are helping to prevent needless deaths, not promoting them. And they are a tool, above all. Like any other tool of war, the primary source of their moral standing is in how they are being used.

If you disapprove of how these tools are being used, please give specific examples so that we might respond directly to them.
 
2012-10-24 09:35:44 AM

BeesNuts: Frederick: It is seen as blatant, cowardly, and immoral -and uniquely American. And since the US is perceived as the worlds #1 antagonist, any offense is elevated.

You're saying that the world doesn't appreciate the fact that America can kill people from afar without having any real vested interest in the process. No Americans were Harmed in the Making of this Assassination, and all that.

I'll happily concede that this does indeed create a moral dilemma, but Cowardly, Immoral and Blatant? That's just throwing mean words around. 300 years ago, it would have been considered Cowardly to not march in column across an open field at your opponent. 100 years ago, it was considered cowardly to not run directly towards machine gun fire.

War is becoming a MORE precise process, not less. The collateral, as well as direct casualties are dropping. Drones are helping to prevent needless deaths, not promoting them. And they are a tool, above all. Like any other tool of war, the primary source of their moral standing is in how they are being used.

If you disapprove of how these tools are being used, please give specific examples so that we might respond directly to them.


What about to kill U.S. Citizens? They at least, deserve due process.
 
2012-10-24 09:46:46 AM

Girion47: BeesNuts: Frederick: It is seen as blatant, cowardly, and immoral -and uniquely American. And since the US is perceived as the worlds #1 antagonist, any offense is elevated.

You're saying that the world doesn't appreciate the fact that America can kill people from afar without having any real vested interest in the process. No Americans were Harmed in the Making of this Assassination, and all that.

I'll happily concede that this does indeed create a moral dilemma, but Cowardly, Immoral and Blatant? That's just throwing mean words around. 300 years ago, it would have been considered Cowardly to not march in column across an open field at your opponent. 100 years ago, it was considered cowardly to not run directly towards machine gun fire.

War is becoming a MORE precise process, not less. The collateral, as well as direct casualties are dropping. Drones are helping to prevent needless deaths, not promoting them. And they are a tool, above all. Like any other tool of war, the primary source of their moral standing is in how they are being used.

If you disapprove of how these tools are being used, please give specific examples so that we might respond directly to them.

What about to kill U.S. Citizens? They at least, deserve due process.


But his argument wasn't constitutional. It was moral and emotional. From a legal perspective, yes. Anwar al-Awlaki's (and most of his family)'s assassination should make us all uneasy, as should federal dismissal of the subsequent lawsuit.

An "America, I Am Disappoint" might be warranted. But disparaging drone use as cowardly, blatant and immoral makes me think he's one of the internet legion who were outraged by the principle of the thing when it happened, and then lost sight of what the real problems were, instead opting for a more base rationale.
 
2012-10-24 09:52:12 AM

BeesNuts: Girion47: BeesNuts: Frederick: It is seen as blatant, cowardly, and immoral -and uniquely American. And since the US is perceived as the worlds #1 antagonist, any offense is elevated.

You're saying that the world doesn't appreciate the fact that America can kill people from afar without having any real vested interest in the process. No Americans were Harmed in the Making of this Assassination, and all that.

I'll happily concede that this does indeed create a moral dilemma, but Cowardly, Immoral and Blatant? That's just throwing mean words around. 300 years ago, it would have been considered Cowardly to not march in column across an open field at your opponent. 100 years ago, it was considered cowardly to not run directly towards machine gun fire.

War is becoming a MORE precise process, not less. The collateral, as well as direct casualties are dropping. Drones are helping to prevent needless deaths, not promoting them. And they are a tool, above all. Like any other tool of war, the primary source of their moral standing is in how they are being used.

If you disapprove of how these tools are being used, please give specific examples so that we might respond directly to them.

What about to kill U.S. Citizens? They at least, deserve due process.

But his argument wasn't constitutional. It was moral and emotional. From a legal perspective, yes. Anwar al-Awlaki's (and most of his family)'s assassination should make us all uneasy, as should federal dismissal of the subsequent lawsuit.

An "America, I Am Disappoint" might be warranted. But disparaging drone use as cowardly, blatant and immoral makes me think he's one of the internet legion who were outraged by the principle of the thing when it happened, and then lost sight of what the real problems were, instead opting for a more base rationale.


I'm not against drones, and I appreciate that lives lost is being reduced. It just seems that we're getting far to cavalier with where we're taking them and what we're doing with them. Do we even respect sovereign airspace any longer? At what point does Congress have to approve bombing in a country? Why can the President invade Pakistan without congressional approval to get Bin Laden(I'm glad he did, it was ballsy. absolutely wrong legally, but ballsy)?

My concern isn't over the use, but the abuse of drones.
 
2012-10-24 09:58:25 AM

Girion47: They at least, deserve due process.


Due process does not mean jury trial. Note that we did not convict him of anything, which would require a jury trial.

Due process granted to military targets consists of assurance that they are killed in accordance with rules of engagement and to a lesser extent international law.

BeesNuts: Anwar al-Awlaki's (and most of his family)'s assassination should make us all uneasy, as should federal dismissal of the subsequent lawsuit.


Bullshiat. What should have made people uneasy was exercising war powers on a potentially unlimited entity via the AUMF. His killing was absolutely constitutional and by the book. If we want to stop that, we need to change the book, not get butthurt that a member of al Qaeda was killed under explicit Congressional authorization to go forth and kill al Qaeda.

If anything, the argument made by people that his citizenship matters one farking bit is the most offensive part of the whole debate.
 
2012-10-24 12:43:20 PM

violentsalvation: Drones are useful surveillance tools over hostile areas. I remember being shocked when that first one fired a missile and killed some AQ. Wait they can do that? It was a good conversation I had with my childhood friend who now pilots them.


If I was a drone operator, I would totally label the missile firing button "smite".
 
2012-10-24 03:09:35 PM

sprawl15: Virgil Goode sounds like a farking cartoon character. That's not his real voice, is it? Is that Sasha Baren Cohen?


sprawl15: Virgil Goode's nickname in high school was Dolan.


violentsalvation: I just figured it out, Virgil Goode reminds me of any random lawyer from a John Grisham book.


cepson: This has been a far more enjoyable experience than I expected. And while I would never vote for Virgil Goode for anything, I love listening to him. Jill is a bit unprepared, but Rocky's got her back. Gary looks a bit feral, but at least he knows where he stands and what he wants to do.


Girion47: buzzcut73: tomWright: OK, voting is up at freeandequal

I voted Johnson, Anderson, Stein and Goode in that order.

My list was the same.


violentsalvation: I voted Johnson, Anderson, Goode and Stein but I don't know if it took my vote, it just went to a white page. I'll try again later.


Just for y′all:
♪♫ Deep mid-dle of Vir-gin-ia, close to Ro-a-noke, ♫♪
♫♪ Way up in Rock-y Mount right near a big live oak. ♪♫
♪♫ It was-n't a log cabin made of earth nor wood, ♫♪
♫♪ Where lived a city boy name of Vir-gil H. Goode, ♪♫
♪♫ Who never ever learned to think or rea-son well, ♫♪
♫♪ But he could sure spout some derp just like a Tea-bag-ger yell. ♪♫

(Chorus:)
♪♫ So, run! ♫♪
♫♪ Run, Vir-gil, run run! ♪♫
♪♫ Run, Vir-gil, run run! ♫♪
♫♪ Run, Vir-gil, run run! ♪♫
♪♫ Run, Vir-gil, run run! ♫♪
♫♪ Vir-gil H. Goode! ♪♫

♪♫ As pol-i-ti-cians go, you could call him a hack, ♫♪
♫♪ De-rail-in' leg-is-la-tion was his on-ly knack. ♪♫
♪♫ There was no con-tro-ver-sy'n which he wouldn't wade, ♫♪
♫♪ The Con-sti-tu-tion Par-ty's nom-in-a-tion made. ♪♫
♪♫ The People passing by, they would stop and see, ♫♪
♫♪ If he could take 'nuff votes from Mitt Rom-ney. ♪♫

(Chorus)

♪♫ His mother told him someday you will be a man, ♫♪
♫♪ And ev-en run for leader of this great big land. ♪♫
♪♫ Many people coming from miles around, ♫♪
♫♪ Check your name on their bal-lot 'ere the sun go down. ♪♫
♪♫ Maybe someday your name will be shouted, hey, ♫♪
♫♪ Vote for Vir-gil Goode today! ♪♫

(Chorus)
(Repeat Chorus)
 
2012-10-25 01:47:54 PM

Gulper Eel: knobmaker: TheBigJerk: Whoever else is running, Gary Johnson is just a farking scam.

You're a fool. If you look at the other candidates, you may discover that the smaller the campaign, the larger the share going to admin. I doubt you're smart enough to figure out why, but have a go.

Additionally, Johnson's raised a total of barely a million bucks.

By way of comparison, there's one single Crossroads GPS superPAC media buy for just Ohio and Wisconsin kicking in this week that's going for $4.2 million.

The best Johnson could hope for with this million of his, were he to spend it on traditional media, is to spend the lot of it in the last minute in one market in hopes of farking up one state's race.


Which is dumb because late-buys are less effective. Also he raised 1 million specifically for ad buys out of around 2 million. Also right next door to him the green party managed to do the same amount with less, and their spending is questionable.
 
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