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(Slate)   Does the U.S. Military still use bayonets? Of course, bayonets are useful for keeping prisoners under control and for "poking an enemy to see whether he is dead"   (slate.com) divider line 261
    More: Obvious, U.S., U.S. military, Basra, Ft. Hood, prisoners under control  
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10640 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Oct 2012 at 11:10 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-23 11:28:46 AM

Egoy3k: calm like a bomb: sigdiamond2000: I see the "liberal media" is running with this "BONGFARTO SEZ THERES NO BAY-O-NETS ANYMORE" thing.

I'm surprised you need this, since Rmoney was the one who got raped last night, but here you go:

[cdn2.mamapop.com image 580x239]

I'm pretty sure that your sarcasm detector needs to be calibrated.


Perhaps. I did note a recent deficiency in the caffeinated beverage level.
 
2012-10-23 11:29:39 AM
It's going to suck when that multi-purpose bayonet/barbwire cutter isn't around when you need to cut through some barbwire.
 
2012-10-23 11:30:47 AM
I am glad we are focused on the important issues.
 
2012-10-23 11:31:11 AM

PsyLord: Dynascape: PsyLord: Dynascape: I have one of these and they're pretty much my main line of defense in a zombie invasion:

[farm3.staticflickr.com image 300x200]

You're not going to survive too long then.

Its a good main weapon.

Plus that spike bayonet is a lot more wicked than pictures make you believe. Its also insanely sharp.

Ah, I want to go home and smell it. Cosmoline is one of my favorite smells ever.

Oh, I have no doubt that it is sharp. It's just that against zombies, the only effective area is the head. So that means that you will be thrusting at one zombie after another with that thing, hoping to hit their orbital cavity and the brain. Looks like after a few dozen thrusts, you might get tired out due to the weight of that thing. Plus the length of the rifle makes maneuvering the item a bit difficult in close quarter or if there is a crowd of zombies.


Keep in mind, the buttpad is also a plate of steel. Would make an effective club as well.
 
2012-10-23 11:31:15 AM

Joe Blowme: yep, but it was never about bayonets. It was about the navy. Who brought up bayonets and horses?


You're right, it wasn't about bayonets or horses. It was an example of how technology has advanced and we don't need to compare the amount of WWI ships vs. today. It's a stupid metric and as Obama pointed out doesn't relate to today.
 
2012-10-23 11:31:45 AM

IAmRight: Yup. But '03-'07.

There are probably more training "bayonets" than there are actual bayonets. I do recall seeing them on armory inventory, though, even though no one ever used them.

/never learned to affix one to a rifle/remove one from a rifle or anything like that.


I deployed with one. The Marine Corps has actually tried to incorporate more training with them in the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program (it replaced LINE training).

The Corps even developed a new more awesome bigger bayonet which looks sort of like a k-bar that took steroids. I carried mine with me in Iraq, even on the plane (but they took away my nail clippers). I think I used it to engage a 'steak' that needed turning over on the 'grill' we made out of a 55gallon drum.

That said, the President was right. We need to spend our money more intelligently. Knives on the end of our rifles are not as tactically important as they once were. Functional satellite communications are key. We don't need to buy 2,000 more tanks. We are not using all the ones we have already. We need to spend the money on our tactical and strategic needs. President Obama had an ironclad point. There is no way for Romney to defend his position. (maybe if he had some more battleships...)
 
2012-10-23 11:32:15 AM

StoPPeRmobile: Mediterranean Sea, ever heard of it?


EZ Writer: To be fair, though... He was talking about the Med. Still...



Yup
 
2012-10-23 11:32:33 AM

JusticeandIndependence: It's a stupid metric and as Obama pointed out doesn't relate to today.


When has that ever stopped the media?
 
2012-10-23 11:32:51 AM

Satanic_Hamster: So.... Bayonets is a talking point.

Romney thinking that Iran and Syria share a boarder and that Iran doesn't have any ocean access isn't.

But remember, the liberal media is out to get Republicans.


How about indicting the President of Iran for inciting genocide? Not even getting into the dispute over the most accurate translation of Ahmadinejad's words, doesn't the idea that his words incited genocide require that genocide happens subsequent to the statement being made?

Apparently not. Can anyone imagine arresting a US President for saying (not taking any explicit action, saying) that a nation we see as a threat must be destroyed?
 
2012-10-23 11:33:13 AM

Valiente: Bayonet charges were devised to indicate you should really give up or face a gutting. They are in the same class as using a trebuchet to fling corpses over walls.


The bayonet has one primary advantage. You never need to reload it. 

And should you find yourself in a situation where you don't have time to reload, it's generally considered advisable to bring company on your trip to hell.
 
2012-10-23 11:33:28 AM

vpb: notmtwain: Is it against the Geneva Convention to fatally "poke" a bunch of unarmed combatants playing dead?

Fatally, yes, although if are playing dead it would be kind of difficult to claim that you intended to kill them.


That's why soldiers should urinate on any bodies lying around the battlefield. It's a non-lethal way to see if they are dead.
 
2012-10-23 11:34:23 AM
Ever see an m16 with a bayonet attached? The rifle is already fairly useless as anything other than a lead launcher or a wiffle bat, but you put that bayonet on there, qnd it's simply 100% grade a hilarity.
 
2012-10-23 11:35:38 AM
Are bayonets useful and still used? Yes.

Are they central to the strength and strategic might of the military the way they might have been 100 years ago? No.
 
2012-10-23 11:36:59 AM
I want a chainsaw bayonet now... Gears of War here I come!!!
 
2012-10-23 11:37:20 AM

Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: At Thanksgiving dinner my dad still tells us all to "fix bayonets." So yeah they're good for something.


While at a Buffalo Wild Wings (the only time I ever went), there was a table full of soldiers watching the Army/Navy game chanting FIXED BAYONETS the entire time, making for a rather dismal environment, even though it was to be expected at BWW.
 
2012-10-23 11:37:28 AM
But all our fixed bayonets are broken! Unless we unfixed the fixed and fix 'em, we'll be in a fix!

/Obscure?
 
2012-10-23 11:37:31 AM

manimal2878: Are bayonets useful and still used? Yes.

Are they central to the strength and strategic might of the military the way they might have been 100 years ago? No.


Until both sides run out of ammo...

/Or you find a camper in CoD
 
2012-10-23 11:38:03 AM
From the politics thread on this:

Zumaki: All of this thread and no one's mentioned this:
i632.photobucket.com
Bayonet
i632.photobucket.com
Bayonet-mount knife

They call them 'bayonets' still because it's shorter. We don't use those long things anymore.

 

This is still the stupidest point of the entire election season - completely missing the forest for the trees.
 
2012-10-23 11:41:04 AM
We should issue bayonets to Fox News and other news orgs so that they'll get the point.
 
2012-10-23 11:41:44 AM
I can't see replacing the bayonet assault course with more PT. They ran us through three times and we were exhasted. Great fun though.
 
2012-10-23 11:41:49 AM

Grungehamster: Satanic_Hamster: So.... Bayonets is a talking point.

Romney thinking that Iran and Syria share a boarder and that Iran doesn't have any ocean access isn't.

But remember, the liberal media is out to get Republicans.

How about indicting the President of Iran for inciting genocide? Not even getting into the dispute over the most accurate translation of Ahmadinejad's words, doesn't the idea that his words incited genocide require that genocide happens subsequent to the statement being made?

Apparently not. Can anyone imagine arresting a US President for saying (not taking any explicit action, saying) that a nation we see as a threat must be destroyed?


I have read the Old Testament and I am pretty sure I am on the out .. alas I am not one of the Chosen Ones ... thankfully my ancestors were in the UK and Australia and not in Palestine when the fundamentalist invaded....
 
2012-10-23 11:41:55 AM

EZ Writer: manimal2878: Are bayonets useful and still used? Yes.

Are they central to the strength and strategic might of the military the way they might have been 100 years ago? No.

Until both sides run out of ammo...

/Or you find a camper in CoD


The last bayonet charge was in the Korean war for the US. Most of the time, a Knife is just as useful, and more common to see. Had a friend in Iraq who had to open a few necks during house clearing with one. I don't think he ever saw a bayonet during his time there.
 
2012-10-23 11:42:53 AM

manimal2878: Are bayonets useful and still used? Yes.

Are they central to the strength and strategic might of the military the way they might have been 100 years ago? No.


The fact that people seem too thick to get this astounds me. Name one country whose deep water Navy has any chance against ours even with less ships. I get that Romney said "we can't know where the next threat will come from", but unless this is his contengency for when the Atlanteans come up from the depths with their lost technology I just don't see what potential threats would require a larger naval fleet than we have right now.
 
2012-10-23 11:43:56 AM

EZ Writer: Satanic_Hamster: So.... Bayonets is a talking point.

Romney thinking that Iran and Syria share a boarder and that Iran doesn't have any ocean access isn't.

But remember, the liberal media is out to get Republicans.

We, U.S. Americans, should have more maps. Like in the Iraqs, and such as...

[sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x661]


At some point it will occur to you that Syria and Lebanon are already being used as bases of operation for Iranian operatives/military personnel, affording them access to sea lanes that they would not have trying to depart from ports along their own coasts...and Romney was right.
 
2012-10-23 11:44:01 AM
Satanic_Hamster: So.... Bayonets is a talking point.

Romney thinking that Iran and Syria share a boarder and that Iran doesn't have any ocean access isn't.

But remember, the liberal media is out to get Republicans.


Actually, Romney said Syria was a strategic ally of Iran because of their access to the sea; that sea being the Mediterranean, because it significantly decreases the distance traveled by oil tankers. Romneys "gaff" was not explaining it to the voting majority who couldn't pass 6th grade geography. You want to know why politicians are vague when they talk? Because simple shiat like that confuses dumb farks like you, leading you to vote for the oppoent. The last thing they want to do is be specific, the masses would be mind farked. They would feel uncomfortable not understanding what they are hearing and vote for the other guy. You are the lowest common demoninator politicians talk to. Fark. You.
 
2012-10-23 11:44:14 AM
I was shocked to see a US Army shotgun fitted with a bayonet. Now that is CLOSE combat. My hat's off to anyone who is too close to use a shotgun and has to stab an enemy to death.
 
2012-10-23 11:44:54 AM

WMCB: I used my bayonet to probe for mines. They didn't work well, so I switched to my other large knife, which worked better.

/mine clearing is a weird job


I hope your other large knife was made out of titanium, plastic, or another non-ferrous material.

/Mine clearing IS a weird job, and it is even more weird when you use the wrong tools.
 
2012-10-23 11:45:48 AM

Dynascape: I have one of these and they're pretty much my main line of defense in a zombie invasion:

[farm3.staticflickr.com image 300x200]


M44? Love mine.

i100.photobucket.com

Also:
i100.photobucket.com
i100.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-23 11:46:00 AM

Gwyrddu: I've never gotten a bayonet outside of basic training, even when I deployed to Kosovo, nor did anyone else in my scout troop.


I didn't get to play with those until, WEBLOS.
 
2012-10-23 11:46:21 AM

Antimatter: EZ Writer: manimal2878: Are bayonets useful and still used? Yes.

Are they central to the strength and strategic might of the military the way they might have been 100 years ago? No.

Until both sides run out of ammo...

/Or you find a camper in CoD

The last bayonet charge was in the Korean war for the US. Most of the time, a Knife is just as useful, and more common to see. Had a friend in Iraq who had to open a few necks during house clearing with one. I don't think he ever saw a bayonet during his time there.


Yeah women & kids tend to be more easily disposed of that way - mind you the preferred method these days is either aerial bombing/rockets or artillery from afar (no one will ever convince me that Iraq was a stand up fight ... it was Shock & Awe ... or more honestly Terrorise, Overwhelm and Distort the Truth.)
 
2012-10-23 11:46:32 AM

EZ Writer: Satanic_Hamster: So.... Bayonets is a talking point.

Romney thinking that Iran and Syria share a boarder and that Iran doesn't have any ocean access isn't.

But remember, the liberal media is out to get Republicans.

We, U.S. Americans, should have more maps. Like in the Iraqs, and such as...

[sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x661]


Mind you, if you read it as:

"Syria is Iran's best chance of access to the Med (and Israel), and they do have a de facto border given that Iraq is for the near future Iran's little biatch",

it's not nearly as stupid. There is some geopolitical reality behind the statement. A Iran with Iraq and Syria as their sphere of influence is a bigger problem than just Iran.
 
2012-10-23 11:46:46 AM

Grungehamster: manimal2878: Are bayonets useful and still used? Yes.

Are they central to the strength and strategic might of the military the way they might have been 100 years ago? No.

The fact that people seem too thick to get this astounds me. Name one country whose deep water Navy has any chance against ours even with less ships. I get that Romney said "we can't know where the next threat will come from", but unless this is his contingency for when the Atlanteans come up from the depths with their lost technology I just don't see what potential threats would require a larger naval fleet than we have right now.


hdhale: EZ Writer: Satanic_Hamster: So.... Bayonets is a talking point.

Romney thinking that Iran and Syria share a boarder and that Iran doesn't have any ocean access isn't.

But remember, the liberal media is out to get Republicans.

We, U.S. Americans, should have more maps. Like in the Iraqs, and such as...

[sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x661]

At some point it will occur to you that Syria and Lebanon are already being used as bases of operation for Iranian operatives/military personnel, affording them access to sea lanes that they would not have trying to depart from ports along their own coasts...and Romney was right.


I think people are very literal and 'surface level' in the analysis of the debates. People just want to jump on the other guy and point and laugh.
 
2012-10-23 11:46:48 AM
I gots what I think is a Viet Nam-era bayonet that's about two foot long. It's real imressive when I pull it out to show friends...And works well to discourage door-to-door salesmen. "Just cleaning my tools, son"

/Hand-me-down from WWII (as in Pearl Harbor) vet with 35 years service.
//took it away rom him when the dementia kicked in for good.
 
2012-10-23 11:46:52 AM

what_now: Please double down on this, Cons.

Also, can we turn one of these threads into a military pony thread?? please.

[thinklikeahorse.org image 360x244]


As you requested...

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-10-23 11:47:28 AM

hdhale: /look it was a silly point on Obama's part...last I heard that 70% of the Earth's surface was covered in water and those carriers he talked about still need support ships...LOTS of support ships...the last thing we need is a smaller navy


The real problem for Obama's scornful 'argument' is that The US Navy has fewer ships than the Admiralty recommends it have to do its job. The current fleet is 287 ships, the recommendation is for 313. Since no one is recommending we build anything but the most technologically-capable fleet, Obama's comment was a back-handed slap by a sitting Commander-in-Chief to his own highest-level naval staff.
 
2012-10-23 11:48:24 AM
Hey article author (and subby)...

media.tumblr.com
 
2012-10-23 11:49:06 AM
It's a sad commentary on the debate observers that THIS is the most commented on statement.

/ a horse for every soldier
//and a bayonet in every horse.


i.imgur.com
 
2012-10-23 11:49:30 AM
 
2012-10-23 11:50:25 AM
we also still use horses, but in smaller numbers and in a lot of ways as vestigial decorative equipment. Yes, they are still useful, but not in the same way (or in the same numbers) as was in their heyday.

Silly teabaggers desperate to be technically correct. The point stands, military readiness is not a matter of numbers of ships or bayonets.

/forest meet trees
 
2012-10-23 11:50:32 AM
Despite the complete lack of truth, this will become a Republican talking point, regardless of how many times people point out that Obama never said the army don't use bayonets.
 
2012-10-23 11:50:36 AM

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: I was shocked to see a US Army shotgun fitted with a bayonet. Now that is CLOSE combat. My hat's off to anyone who is too close to use a shotgun and has to stab an enemy to death.


I ho[e they were solids and not buckshot, cause the later is (technically LOL) against the something or other Convention ... mmm vaguely remember it starting with 'G' ... Genesis, no that's not right ... nope it escapes me, pretty sure it must be one of those old laws that needs to be removed from the books ... like 'unnatural sex acts'.
 
2012-10-23 11:51:48 AM

meyerkev: Mind you, if you read it as:

"Syria is Iran's best chance of access to the Med (and Israel), and they do have a de facto border given that Iraq is for the near future Iran's little biatch",

it's not nearly as stupid. There is some geopolitical reality behind the statement. A Iran with Iraq and Syria as their sphere of influence is a bigger problem than just Iran.


So Iran has access to the Mediterranean thanks to Romney's foreign policy team (who are mostly Bush administration alumni).

One more reason we can't give these people power again.
 
2012-10-23 11:52:03 AM

Snarfangel: vpb: notmtwain: Is it against the Geneva Convention to fatally "poke" a bunch of unarmed combatants playing dead?

Fatally, yes, although if are playing dead it would be kind of difficult to claim that you intended to kill them.

That's why soldiers should urinate on any bodies lying around the battlefield. It's a non-lethal way to see if they are dead.


I found a pigs blood sprinkler works even better
 
2012-10-23 11:52:40 AM

Dynascape: PsyLord: Dynascape: I have one of these and they're pretty much my main line of defense in a zombie invasion:

[farm3.staticflickr.com image 300x200]

You're not going to survive too long then.

Its a good main weapon.

Plus that spike bayonet is a lot more wicked than pictures make you believe. Its also insanely sharp.

Ah, I want to go home and smell it. Cosmoline is one of my favorite smells ever.


As much as I admire the Mosin, if you're relying on an archaic, fussy, 5-shot bolt gun for the ZA, you're well & truly farked. The neato Nazi-skewer on the end isn't much good to you at the distances the gun is most effective at.

/WHAR BAYINETS WHAR
 
2012-10-23 11:52:57 AM
 
2012-10-23 11:53:13 AM

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Fark. You can buy a bayonet lug kit for your Remington 870 on eBay.


That gave me an idea. Did an Amazon search, and yes, it's already begun: Link 

Read (and post) comments.
 
2012-10-23 11:54:07 AM

gerrymander: hdhale: /look it was a silly point on Obama's part...last I heard that 70% of the Earth's surface was covered in water and those carriers he talked about still need support ships...LOTS of support ships...the last thing we need is a smaller navy

The real problem for Obama's scornful 'argument' is that The US Navy has fewer ships than the Admiralty recommends it have to do its job. The current fleet is 287 ships, the recommendation is for 313. Since no one is recommending we build anything but the most technologically-capable fleet, Obama's comment was a back-handed slap by a sitting Commander-in-Chief to his own highest-level naval staff.


We don't use that term here in the States. It's the Secretary of the Navy.

BTW: Obama doesn't give out permission slips for the Navy to build things, Congress does. Also the Navy is larger by ship count than in 2007..... It was a stupid statement by Romney using a hundred year old stat as the basis for more ships. He was wrong and Obama pointed out how wrong he was.
 
2012-10-23 11:55:00 AM

Gunny Highway: hdhale: At some point it will occur to you that Syria and Lebanon are already being used as bases of operation for Iranian operatives/military personnel, affording them access to sea lanes that they would not have trying to depart from ports along their own coasts...and Romney was right.

I think people are very literal and 'surface level' in the analysis of the debates. People just want to jump on the other guy and point and laugh.


And some people have a sense of humor and don't take everything so seriously. We also enjoy the occasional LULZ.

Also, I'll point out again where I said:

EZ Writer: To be fair, though... He was talking about the Med. Still...

 
2012-10-23 11:55:43 AM
Last time I used a bayonet was in a parade. I was in the Indiana Air National Guard and we were marching in Brazil (you just pronounced it wrong) Indiana. Never march with a bunch of airmen with bayonets. They bunch up. They move their rifle arm. You have to watch the bayonet right in front of you, bouncing and weaving like a metal cobra about to strike.

The time previous, we bayoneted a lot of sand bags along the Wabash. The the front end loader scooped them up and tried to separate the sand from the plastic sand bags. Got an Indiana Volunteer Ribbon for that.
 
2012-10-23 11:56:24 AM

Langdon_777: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: I was shocked to see a US Army shotgun fitted with a bayonet. Now that is CLOSE combat. My hat's off to anyone who is too close to use a shotgun and has to stab an enemy to death.

I ho[e they were solids and not buckshot, cause the later is (technically LOL) against the something or other Convention ... mmm vaguely remember it starting with 'G' ... Genesis, no that's not right ... nope it escapes me, pretty sure it must be one of those old laws that needs to be removed from the books ... like 'unnatural sex acts'.


Geneva. And no it's not.

Nor is it against the Hague Conventions (which do have something to say about projectiles that cause unnecessary suffering but don't address shotguns shooting shot). And even if it was against the Hague Conventions, the US isn't a signatory to them (we generally abide by them though). And even if the US were a signatory to the Hague Conventions, they don't apply to conflicts involving other non-signatories that don't abide by them (like everyone we've been fighting lately).
 
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