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(CBC)   Alberta politician: "Was I wrong to suggest that recalled E.Coli-tainted beef should have been thoroughly cooked and fed to poor people instead of dumped in the landfill? Was that wrong?"   (cbc.ca ) divider line
    More: Dumbass, E. coli, Alberta, Canadian Food Inspection Agency, Ray Yechtel  
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5376 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Oct 2012 at 12:48 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-22 04:06:57 PM  

Mantour: DerAppie: Okay, but we still haven't gotten an answer. Does cooking the meat kill the bacteria?

No. Not if it is the O157:H7 strain, which causes "hamburger's disease". It is also the strain that caused death in the Walkerton Tragedy.

Verotoxin-producing E.Coli


From your own link, if I follow the link specifically to O157:H7, it says this:

Cooking all ground beef and hamburgers thoroughly, and checking the temperature using an instant-read meat thermometer, will eliminate the organism. Ground beef should be cooked until a thermometer inserted into several parts of the patty, including the thickest part, reads at least 72 °C (162 °F).

So, someone still seems to think proper thorough cooking will still eliminate the danger even from this verotoxin-producing e.coli...
 
2012-10-22 04:19:57 PM  

C_Canuk: according to Wikipedia at a glance it looks like Mike the Knife did facilitate alternate channels of communication being shut down that may have prevented it, but it still doesn't show me why you think the conservatives or privatized labs fault to the tune you are singing.

FTA

"...For days the Walkerton Public Utilities Commission insisted the water supply was "OK" despite being in possession of laboratory tests that had found evidence of contamination..."

"...During the time of the tragedy, both Stan and Frank Koebel denied any wrongdoing and firmly held that the water at Walkerton was safe to drink. However, as the tragedy grew in severity the two were eventually part of the criminal investigation into the tragedy, and, as a result, both would eventually plead guilty to a charge of common nuisance through a plea bargain. In their plea, they admitted to falsifying reports and Frank admitted to drinking on the job, as a beer fridge did exist at the facility..."

Did Mike Harris' government make changes that allowed this, yes, could they have foreseen that 30 year experienced workers would immediately criminally shiat the bed, no.


The O'Connor Report said that the Harris government was partly to blame and ignored repeated warnings.

Harris commissioned the O'Connor Report, himself.

This is a matter of record.
 
2012-10-22 04:40:01 PM  

RobSeace: Mantour: DerAppie: Okay, but we still haven't gotten an answer. Does cooking the meat kill the bacteria?

No. Not if it is the O157:H7 strain, which causes "hamburger's disease". It is also the strain that caused death in the Walkerton Tragedy.

Verotoxin-producing E.Coli

From your own link, if I follow the link specifically to O157:H7, it says this:

Cooking all ground beef and hamburgers thoroughly, and checking the temperature using an instant-read meat thermometer, will eliminate the organism. Ground beef should be cooked until a thermometer inserted into several parts of the patty, including the thickest part, reads at least 72 °C (162 °F).

So, someone still seems to think proper thorough cooking will still eliminate the danger even from this verotoxin-producing e.coli...


Thank you for the correction. Indeed, cooking eliminates the bacteria, of course but not the risk inherited by the toxin.

PlatinumDragon: Theaetetus: toobsok: Okay, I don't like her or the Wildrose, but this was blown way out of proportion. She wasn't saying "feed poors tainted beef (wooohh oh oh tainted beef)", she was stating that she thought you could cook out the e.coli and not waste the beef, which CFIA didn't think was possible in this case.

Yep, because:
Mantour: DerAppie: Okay, but we still haven't gotten an answer. Does cooking the meat kill the bacteria?

No. Not if it is the O157:H7 strain, which causes "hamburger's disease". It is also the strain that caused death in the Walkerton Tragedy.

That's not her fault. I didn't know that there was a verotoxin producing strain until this thread either. I would've thought it was possible to pasteurize the meat too.

IIRC, O157:H7 is so dangerous specifically because of the toxin it produces. E. coli is a common gut resident in many mammals. We carry legions upon legions of them. It's not nice to find any strain riding on food, because it likely means that food came into contact with shiat, which is obviously never something you want to ingest. The O157 variant was the cause of the Jack-in-the-Box outbreak, the one that blew the issue of mass food contamination to public prominence. Killing that particular strain can trigger a mass release of any built-up toxin. Basically, if you find O157 (or any other strains that have evolved similar traits), your only really safe option is to write off that meat plus any other food that came into contact with contaminated gear.

It's freaky seeing every damned thing laid out in chapters 8 and 9 of Fast Food Nation play out all over again. Slaughterhouses with high line speeds, spotty and underprovisioned oversight, denials and CYA press releases, long buildups to massive recalls... I read that book for a course over a decade ago, and those chapters are still perfectly relevant, which in and of itself is a condemnation of Canadian food safety practices.


Thank you for elaborating more on the subject. Indeed, the problem is not the meat but the quality of butchers. If the cuts are well done, there is no issue to worry about. That is why butchers have to learn the trade at trade school (NAIT, SAIT,..)

The slaughterhouse is in Brooks, ( Food XL). It is known to employ lots of immigrants, (Somali, Mali,...) and I fear that they are simply not educated enough to their the job properly, or they are told to do jobs that only a Trained butcher should do.
 
2012-10-22 05:07:16 PM  

Mantour: Thank you for the correction. Indeed, cooking eliminates the bacteria, of course but not the risk inherited by the toxin.


I'm curious if anyone ever really has gotten sick from just residual toxin leftover in the meat after a thorough cooking, as opposed to toxin produced in one's guts by living bacteria acquired through undercooking the meat? It sounds more like a "better safe than sorry" thing than an actual major threat...

/I still wouldn't eat the known infected meat no matter how well cooked, and wouldn't expect anyone else to...
 
2012-10-22 06:30:26 PM  
CokeBear: Alberta: Canada's Texas.
Oil, Cows, Rednecks and other right-wing nutjobs. The only thing Alberta is missing is Mexicans.

We have Americans instead.
 
2012-10-22 06:49:49 PM  
Wow, a thread about an Alberta politician speaking about Alberta current events gets hijacked to discuss things that happened in Ontario twelve years ago.

Ever wonder WHY so many otherwise rational, intelligent Albertans vote for conservatives?
 
2012-10-22 07:02:03 PM  
I'm hungry now.
 
2012-10-22 07:41:44 PM  
I'm already tired of the conservative clap-trap of the Wild Rose Party.

upload.wikimedia.org

I suggest we start a Gypsy Rose Lee Party.

She has her own theme song, already. Saves us mucho denero. 

Speaking of parties, that some wild curtains she has there. You can see them better by clicking through to the large size at Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gypsy_Rose_Lee
 
2012-10-22 08:36:29 PM  

CokeBear: Alberta: Canada's Texas.

Oil, Cows, Rednecks and other right-wing nutjobs. The only thing Alberta is missing is Mexicans.


I looked up this Wildrose Party, and it sounds like a (slightly) more moderate version of the Republican Party here in the US....

If there's ever a merger between Canada and the US, I'm sure those people would fit right in...they look pretty bootstrappy to me.

/ I wouldn't vote for these schlubs if I saw them on my ballot...
 
2012-10-22 09:46:54 PM  
towatchoverme:

Did Mike Harris' government make changes that allowed this, yes, could they have foreseen that 30 year experienced workers would immediately criminally shiat the bed, no.

The O'Connor Report said that the Harris government was partly to blame and ignored repeated warnings.

Harris commissioned the O'Connor Report, himself.

This is a matter of record.


Fair enough. I just get tired of hearing how all conservatives are to blame for Walkerton when it was really 90% the fault of the dicks running the place, and they didn't have this problem else where.

I was mainly pointing out to the liberal fanboy that he's not half as smart as he smugly thinks he is, and his misrepresentation of the facts so he can sling mud at the other team is exactly what's wrong with this country.

Liberal, Conservative, Dipper, Bloc: they all lie, they all fark up, and none of them have even most of the answers so people need to stop being a party dick suck, vote for the best MP you can, and make it hurt when they fark around or lie.

But no...

We have Conservative fan boys sucking Harper's dick while misrepresenting the liberals to make them look evil.

We have Liberal Fan boys sucking whatever clown is running their party this week doing the same.

We have Dippers living in a dream world that doesn't come close to what exists, slinging mud at everyone else.

This country a ship circling the farking drain and we're all too busy having a food fight to get someone on the wheel who knows what they're doing
 
2012-10-22 10:52:06 PM  

RobSeace: Mantour: DerAppie: Okay, but we still haven't gotten an answer. Does cooking the meat kill the bacteria?

No. Not if it is the O157:H7 strain, which causes "hamburger's disease". It is also the strain that caused death in the Walkerton Tragedy.

Verotoxin-producing E.Coli

From your own link, if I follow the link specifically to O157:H7, it says this:

Cooking all ground beef and hamburgers thoroughly, and checking the temperature using an instant-read meat thermometer, will eliminate the organism. Ground beef should be cooked until a thermometer inserted into several parts of the patty, including the thickest part, reads at least 72 °C (162 °F).

So, someone still seems to think proper thorough cooking will still eliminate the danger even from this verotoxin-producing e.coli...


Then you'd better hope every last tiny blob of beef gets thoroughly cooked. From what I've read (admittedly not extensively), as few as five individuals riding a single, small uncooked piece can be a source of successful infection. It's a very successful, resilient, fast-reproducing organism that our immune systems mostly recognize and tolerate, and the toxin produced by O157:H7's is the really deadly aspect of reported e. coli contamination. It can, and does, damage organs beyond repair in children under five and the elderly through a condition called hemolytic uremic syndrome - basically, kidney failure and cascading organ failures from mass cell death caused by the toxin. It causes horrible, lingering deaths in some, and more often painful, bloody diarrhea.

Whose butt are you willing to gamble on the consistency of cooking devices and their operators?
 
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