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(CBC)   Alberta politician: "Was I wrong to suggest that recalled E.Coli-tainted beef should have been thoroughly cooked and fed to poor people instead of dumped in the landfill? Was that wrong?"   (cbc.ca) divider line 111
    More: Dumbass, E. coli, Alberta, Canadian Food Inspection Agency, Ray Yechtel  
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5358 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Oct 2012 at 12:48 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



111 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-10-22 12:10:56 PM
Well done, Tire Tits.

i203.photobucket.com
 
2012-10-22 12:49:53 PM
Christ, what an asshole.
 
2012-10-22 12:53:01 PM
Okay, but we still haven't gotten an answer. Does cooking the meat kill the bacteria?
 
2012-10-22 12:53:18 PM
YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSS SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
 
2012-10-22 12:53:59 PM

DerAppie: Okay, but we still haven't gotten an answer. Does cooking the meat kill the bacteria?


Its not so much the bacteria as the toxins they produce.
 
2012-10-22 12:54:01 PM
Danielle Smith, the gift that keeps on giving.
 
2012-10-22 12:54:02 PM
I thought they'd feed it to the lions in the zoos.
 
2012-10-22 12:54:07 PM
Okay, I don't like her or the Wildrose, but this was blown way out of proportion. She wasn't saying "feed poors tainted beef (wooohh oh oh tainted beef)", she was stating that she thought you could cook out the e.coli and not waste the beef, which CFIA didn't think was possible in this case.

She was wrong and had words put into her mouth, admitted her stupidity, and everybody moves on.
 
2012-10-22 12:55:02 PM

toobsok: Okay, I don't like her or the Wildrose, but this was blown way out of proportion. She wasn't saying "feed poors tainted beef (wooohh oh oh tainted beef)", she was stating that she thought you could cook out the e.coli and not waste the beef, which CFIA didn't think was possible in this case.

She was wrong and had words put into her mouth, admitted her stupidity, and everybody moves on.


Stop trying to be reasonable!
 
2012-10-22 12:55:24 PM
I'd gladly purchase E. Coli-tainted beef if I could get it at a discount. And I'm not even close to homeless.

Throwing it away is a silly knee-jerk, overreaction. If you reach a temp. of 160 or so - the E. Coli is rendered absolutely harmless. Following basic meat handling procedures will keep you safe from the raw meat.
 
2012-10-22 12:55:41 PM

DerAppie: Does cooking the meat kill the bacteria

E. coli bacteria can survive in the refrigerator and freezer, and it can multiply rapidly in the refrigerator, making E. coli particularly difficult to manage. E. coli will also survive in highly acidic environments, which is also unusual for most food-borne pathogens. They are killed by cooking, however, so the best prevention against E. coli is to heat foods to 160°F or hotter for at least 30 seconds. That means burgers should not be served rare.


Yeah, but it might insult some hobo so we should turn those animals directly into garbage so their deaths were for absolutely no reason.
 
2012-10-22 12:55:54 PM

BolivarShagnasty: DerAppie: Okay, but we still haven't gotten an answer. Does cooking the meat kill the bacteria?

Its not so much the bacteria as the toxins they produce.


Came here to say this. Those won't go away.
 
2012-10-22 12:56:26 PM
If cooking it right makes it safe I see no problem.
 
2012-10-22 12:56:56 PM
I really wish there had been small red hubcaps on that bus. I'm sure others felt the same way.
 
2012-10-22 12:57:10 PM
I must be missing something. Her statement was logical. If the meat can be cooked to kill any E.Coli, but was instead thrown out, it would have been better utilized to feed the hungry. You can argue that it was not worth taking the chance, but that does not make her a Biatch.
 
2012-10-22 12:57:28 PM
Alberta: Canada's Texas.

Oil, Cows, Rednecks and other right-wing nutjobs. The only thing Alberta is missing is Mexicans.
 
2012-10-22 12:58:38 PM
She could taint my beef anytime.
 
2012-10-22 12:58:45 PM

CokeBear: Alberta: Canada's Texas.

Oil, Cows, Rednecks and other right-wing nutjobs. The only thing Alberta is missing is Mexicans.


They can't handle our winters.
 
2012-10-22 12:59:18 PM

meanmutton: toobsok: Okay, I don't like her or the Wildrose, but this was blown way out of proportion. She wasn't saying "feed poors tainted beef (wooohh oh oh tainted beef)", she was stating that she thought you could cook out the e.coli and not waste the beef, which CFIA didn't think was possible in this case.

She was wrong and had words put into her mouth, admitted her stupidity, and everybody moves on.

Stop trying to be reasonable!


Yes. Stop trying to harsh my outrage
 
2012-10-22 12:59:37 PM

meanmutton: toobsok: Okay, I don't like her or the Wildrose, but this was blown way out of proportion. She wasn't saying "feed poors tainted beef (wooohh oh oh tainted beef)", she was stating that she thought you could cook out the e.coli and not waste the beef, which CFIA didn't think was possible in this case.

She was wrong and had words put into her mouth, admitted her stupidity, and everybody moves on.

Stop trying to be reasonable!


I can't =(.

It seems like every Alberta thread people are reaching for reasons to hate the Wildrose and Conservatives. There are legitimate reasons, and this isn't one of them. I hate this sort of discourse.
 
2012-10-22 12:59:58 PM
This seems way to reasonable to be a Fark thread. Someone please bring in a college English major who switched out of a science during freshman year because biology was too hard to tell us all that heat doesn't kill e. coli.
 
2012-10-22 12:59:58 PM

DerAppie: Okay, but we still haven't gotten an answer. Does cooking the meat kill the bacteria?


No. Not if it is the O157:H7 strain, which causes "hamburger's disease". It is also the strain that caused death in the Walkerton Tragedy.

Verotoxin-producing E.Coli
 
2012-10-22 01:01:25 PM

CokeBear: Alberta: Canada's Texas.

Oil, Cows, Rednecks and other right-wing nutjobs. The only thing Alberta is missing is Mexicans.


Did you read the article or just jump to a conclusion based on the headline?

And Alberta has Mexicans. They're called Newfies.

/or Saskatchewanians
//I keed
 
Juc
2012-10-22 01:01:58 PM

CokeBear: Alberta: Canada's Texas.

Oil, Cows, Rednecks and other right-wing nutjobs. The only thing Alberta is missing is Mexicans.


That's what newfies are for
 
2012-10-22 01:03:29 PM

liam76: If cooking it right makes it safe I see no problem.


Cook the beef does not make it safe.

There is a problem.

Seriously, why else would they waste perfectly good beef? Sometimes people aren't evil or stupid; sometimes they're doing things for good reasons that aren't readily apparent.

Every other time though, they're evil and stupid.
 
2012-10-22 01:05:12 PM

CokeBear: Alberta: Canada's Texas.

Oil, Cows, Rednecks and other right-wing nutjobs. The only thing Alberta is missing is Mexicans.


well, aren't we(US) your (Canada's) "Messcans"?
 
2012-10-22 01:05:13 PM

toobsok: Okay, I don't like her or the Wildrose, but this was blown way out of proportion. She wasn't saying "feed poors tainted beef (wooohh oh oh tainted beef)", she was stating that she thought you could cook out the e.coli and not waste the beef, which CFIA didn't think was possible in this case.

She was wrong and had words put into her mouth, admitted her stupidity, and everybody moves on.


You're correct, but she's still an idiot leading a party that enjoys significant support in an idiotically conservative religious province. So I say, let's get at 'er.
 
2012-10-22 01:05:53 PM

oldfarthenry: I really wish there had been small red hubcaps on that bus. I'm sure others felt the same way.


She's a right winger, so in true Canadian political fashion, they filter out anything that makes sense or is reasonable until it says what they read want to read.

They want to claim she was trying to poison the homeless like an evil biatch and not looking for a way to provide them with food because right wingers are all supposed to be evil American republican caricatures, so obviously she wasn't suggesting we help the poor.

You see the same thing from opposite ends though not as much because aver 12 years of liberal rule, the State owned media (CBC) is staked with liberal supporters.

You'll notice that although the CBC was screaming about Harper eating kittens he still got one of the largest popular votes ever, so basically the loudest stupidest Canadians get air time, while the silent majority is face palming like the rest of us. Until we stop rewarding derpitude the trend will continue.

If Harper gets voted out this coming election, the loud idiots will think it's because of their gibbering, not because he's been pissing off the average Canadian. For that to happen though the NDP and Liberals need to grow the fark up and start acting like adults, because creepy Harper is still the best of the 3 options.
 
2012-10-22 01:07:43 PM
She does look like she knows a lot about tainted beer.
 
2012-10-22 01:08:15 PM
Why don't they irradiate meat?
 
2012-10-22 01:08:31 PM

Nurglitch: Cook the beef does not make it safe.


does anyone have a citation for this? I have always heard that it does make it safe to eat and from quick search that seems to be the case.
 
2012-10-22 01:08:31 PM
This tainted beef she's givin'
maybe poor should eat it, no landfillin' ?
just take this beef and cook it tho-rough-ly
Ohh... tainted beef

Don't waste it, please
So you'll be a little queasy
I'deat it if you cook it so
Now I'm going to cook my beef and go
Ohh... tainted beef
 
2012-10-22 01:09:17 PM

Mantour: DerAppie: Okay, but we still haven't gotten an answer. Does cooking the meat kill the bacteria?

No. Not if it is the O157:H7 strain, which causes "hamburger's disease". It is also the strain that caused death in the Walkerton Tragedy.

Verotoxin-producing E.Coli


Okay. Check for the strain and then decide whether or not to trash it. I'd buy it if it wasn't the toxin producing strain. I'm recently graduated so I haven't developed high food standards yet.

/No idea what this "Walkerton Tragedy" is
 
2012-10-22 01:09:49 PM

Mambo Bananapatch: toobsok: Okay, I don't like her or the Wildrose, but this was blown way out of proportion. She wasn't saying "feed poors tainted beef (wooohh oh oh tainted beef)", she was stating that she thought you could cook out the e.coli and not waste the beef, which CFIA didn't think was possible in this case.

She was wrong and had words put into her mouth, admitted her stupidity, and everybody moves on.

You're correct, but she's still an idiot leading a party that enjoys significant support in an idiotically conservative religious province. So I say, let's get at 'er.


Yes, she is an idiot, so attack her for her policies and her kneejerk reaction to "not wasting". But don't say she was advocating feeding the homeless tainted beef.

And by your last comment, I don't think you truly understand Alberta politics. It's not a religious attitude that keeps Alberta conservative, it's an uneasy history with the Liberal party (the NEP, amongst other things), it's our large pockets of rural ridings (who have always voted conservative and will keep doing it, goddamnit), and the provincial Liberals the same problem the federal Liberals have - they can't pick a good leader to run the provincial party.
 
2012-10-22 01:10:34 PM

hiker9999: CokeBear: Alberta: Canada's Texas.

Oil, Cows, Rednecks and other right-wing nutjobs. The only thing Alberta is missing is Mexicans.

well, aren't we(US) your (Canada's) "Messcans"?


Actually, yeah. Flooding across the border every time a RWNJ wins the White House. I'm hoping for an Obama win just to keep those damn 'merkins from trying to cross the border
 
2012-10-22 01:13:03 PM

Molavian: Why don't they irradiate meat?


Because like the radiation will get in the meat and give you like brain cancer. It's true. I saw it on Fox News!
 
2012-10-22 01:13:43 PM

C_Canuk: oldfarthenry: I really wish there had been small red hubcaps on that bus. I'm sure others felt the same way.

She's a right winger, so in true Canadian political fashion, they filter out anything that makes sense or is reasonable until it says what they read want to read.

They want to claim she was trying to poison the homeless like an evil biatch and not looking for a way to provide them with food because right wingers are all supposed to be evil American republican caricatures, so obviously she wasn't suggesting we help the poor.

You see the same thing from opposite ends though not as much because aver 12 years of liberal rule, the State owned media (CBC) is staked with liberal supporters.

You'll notice that although the CBC was screaming about Harper eating kittens he still got one of the largest popular votes ever, so basically the loudest stupidest Canadians get air time, while the silent majority is face palming like the rest of us. Until we stop rewarding derpitude the trend will continue.

If Harper gets voted out this coming election, the loud idiots will think it's because of their gibbering, not because he's been pissing off the average Canadian. For that to happen though the NDP and Liberals need to grow the fark up and start acting like adults, because creepy Harper is still the best of the 3 options.


Hmm... so some left leaning Canadians filter things until it says what they want to hear? Interesting. Could you imagine a right leaning Canadian doing something like that? I wonder what that would look like...
 
2012-10-22 01:18:18 PM

C_Canuk: oldfarthenry: I really wish there had been small red hubcaps on that bus. I'm sure others felt the same way.

She's a right winger, so in true Canadian political fashion, they filter out anything that makes sense or is reasonable until it says what they read want to read.

They want to claim she was trying to poison the homeless like an evil biatch and not looking for a way to provide them with food because right wingers are all supposed to be evil American republican caricatures, so obviously she wasn't suggesting we help the poor.

You see the same thing from opposite ends though not as much because aver 12 years of liberal rule, the State owned media (CBC) is staked with liberal supporters.

You'll notice that although the CBC was screaming about Harper eating kittens he still got one of the largest popular votes ever, so basically the loudest stupidest Canadians get air time, while the silent majority is face palming like the rest of us. Until we stop rewarding derpitude the trend will continue.

If Harper gets voted out this coming election, the loud idiots will think it's because of their gibbering, not because he's been pissing off the average Canadian. For that to happen though the NDP and Liberals need to grow the fark up and start acting like adults, because creepy Harper is still the best of the 3 options.


None of this makes any sense. Spiral American, will ya?
 
2012-10-22 01:18:43 PM
More than anything else, it probably has to do with liability. If you know the meat has E-Coli in it, and you cook it and some people still end up being sick, you stand to face serious legal damages for knowingly feeding people tainted meat.
 
2012-10-22 01:22:47 PM
And that's why the WRP will never be relevant, except to the inbred rednecks.
 
2012-10-22 01:25:18 PM
Burying homeless people in landfills does not solve the problem.
 
2012-10-22 01:25:36 PM

Decillion: C_Canuk: oldfarthenry: I really wish there had been small red hubcaps on that bus. I'm sure others felt the same way.

She's a right winger, so in true Canadian political fashion, they filter out anything that makes sense or is reasonable until it says what they want to read.

They want to claim she was trying to poison the homeless like an evil biatch and not looking for a way to provide them with food because right wingers are all supposed to be evil American republican caricatures, so obviously she wasn't suggesting we help the poor.

You see the same thing from opposite ends though not as much because aver 12 years of liberal rule, the State owned media (CBC) is stacked with liberal supporters.

You'll notice that although the CBC was screaming about Harper eating kittens he still got one of the largest popular votes ever, so basically the loudest stupidest Canadians get air time, while the silent majority is face palming like the rest of us. Until we stop rewarding derpitude the trend will continue.

If Harper gets voted out this coming election, the loud idiots will think it's because of their gibbering, not because he's been pissing off the average Canadian. For that to happen though the NDP and Liberals need to grow the fark up and start acting like adults, because creepy Harper is still the best of the 3 options.

Hmm... so some left leaning Canadians filter things until it says what they want to hear? Interesting. Could you imagine a right leaning Canadian doing something like that? I wonder what that would look like...

 

Yes, I mentioned it above. you might want to consider yourself having the left/right twit syndrome in that you read what you wanted to read, not what was written. I.E. you wanted to read a biased right wing screed, not a neutral comment complaining about my team can do no wrong, your team is evil twits that shiat in our country's political discourse. 

For those not Canadian, please note the smugness of the twit and you'll understand that our brand of political derp may appear more intelligent but is usually less than yours.
 
2012-10-22 01:27:41 PM
www.cbc.ca

She posed a question, not a suggestion.
 
2012-10-22 01:31:51 PM

Bob_Laublaw: Well done, Tire Tits.

[i203.photobucket.com image 300x391]


The awesome that is that photo cannot be overstated

/one's an innie and one's and outie? WTF?
 
2012-10-22 01:34:49 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: [www.cbc.ca image 460x259]

She posed a question, not a suggestion.


Is Abe Vigoda's Ghost a pony feltcher?

I'm just asking questions here!
 
2012-10-22 01:35:25 PM
It's been mentioned here already, but we apparently need to reiterate:

TWO HUGE REASONS why we won't "cook it and feed it to the poor":

Liability (feeding foods that you KNOW are contaminated to people is generally not a responsible thing to do)

Toxins (food-borne pathogenic organisms harm in two ways: bacteria populate YOU and produce toxins in YOU, or, bacteria populate FOOD and produce toxins in FOOD, which you then eat. Cooking only solves one of these issues.)


As you were.
 
2012-10-22 01:37:34 PM
You Said TAINT
epguides.com
 
2012-10-22 01:41:28 PM

mtbhucker: And that's why the WRP will never be relevant, except to the inbred rednecks.


Or, perhaps, to farmers and ranchers who think they would do better economically under a Wildrose government?

I don't support the Wildrose, but I think that there are valid reasons for someone to vote for them. Everybody has a reason for their vote, so don't generalize all Wildrose supporters and don't muddy the discourse by calling Wildrose supporters 'inbred rednecks'.
 
2012-10-22 01:43:03 PM
Homeless?

We send them to BC.
 
2012-10-22 01:44:05 PM

mtbhucker: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: [www.cbc.ca image 460x259]

She posed a question, not a suggestion.

Is Abe Vigoda's Ghost a pony feltcher?

I'm just asking questions here!


Your question has no context of discussion in regards to Abe Vigoda's Ghost being a pony feltcher, you brought it up as a non sequiter.

The bint in the article was asked directly why the meat was being tossed out, and she asked if there was some reason it couldn't be made safe.

One is a legitimate question, though a little lacking thought, the other is conversation shiating... maybe you should go brush your teeth.
 
2012-10-22 01:44:24 PM

DerAppie: /No idea what this "Walkerton Tragedy" is


Small town in Ontario . Where two dim witted brothers ran the town water system very badly for an number of years , Conservative Government of the day provided the lynch-pin in letting " Free market " in so the town did not have to send water tests to government labs using private labs instead ( hooray Free-market Conservative ideology !! ) . So only the brothers ( who never bothered to read the report ) knew the water was tainted . The public heath was silenced by the mayor ( not to ruin the town's ' good name' ) and only a local Doctor brought it to light and a number of people died -- Ontario Conservative legacy
 
2012-10-22 01:45:28 PM
Wildrose=Tea party.

Darwin, Let this stupid twat gulp down a big thick burger made from cooked tainted meat and washed down with a glass of Walkerton water.
 
2012-10-22 01:45:38 PM

toobsok: Okay, I don't like her or the Wildrose, but this was blown way out of proportion. She wasn't saying "feed poors tainted beef (wooohh oh oh tainted beef)", she was stating that she thought you could cook out the e.coli and not waste the beef, which CFIA didn't think was possible in this case.


Yep, because:

Mantour: DerAppie: Okay, but we still haven't gotten an answer. Does cooking the meat kill the bacteria?

No. Not if it is the O157:H7 strain, which causes "hamburger's disease". It is also the strain that caused death in the Walkerton Tragedy.


That's not her fault. I didn't know that there was a verotoxin producing strain until this thread either. I would've thought it was possible to pasteurize the meat too.
 
2012-10-22 01:46:10 PM

toobsok: mtbhucker: And that's why the WRP will never be relevant, except to the inbred rednecks.

Or, perhaps, to farmers and ranchers who think they would do better economically under a Wildrose government?

I don't support the Wildrose, but I think that there are valid reasons for someone to vote for them. Everybody has a reason for their vote, so don't generalize all Wildrose supporters and don't muddy the discourse by calling Wildrose supporters 'inbred rednecks'.


I live in rural Alberta and was born and raised in Southern Alberta. So yes, a big chunk of them are inbred rednecks with a 4th grade education. One of the reasons WRP did so well was because of land rights issues. Around here, that was the only reason why many ranchers voted for them.
 
2012-10-22 01:46:33 PM
The amount of money it would take to feed the poor (in any developed country) is so low that to look into things like this shows a complete lack of perspective (certainly when compared to things like military spending and corporate welfare). The impact on the budget of countries like the US, Canada, most of Europe, etc., is so trivial, and the benefits so high (for example boosting impoverished children's school grades and life/health prospects), the only reason not to do it with proper consumer grade food rather than try to use industrial waste and contaminated meat is to punish the poor for needing help.
 
2012-10-22 01:49:03 PM
Or we could keep cow shiat out of the food suppliy, but that would mean hiring cutters and plant managers that give a fark and that costs money.
 
2012-10-22 01:50:14 PM
How is dumping it in a landfill any safer? That will not kill the toxin. What happens when other animals (rats, birds, etc.) eat the tainted beef and spread the toxin back into the food chain?
 
2012-10-22 01:51:25 PM

mtbhucker: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: [www.cbc.ca image 460x259]

She posed a question, not a suggestion.

Is Abe Vigoda's Ghost a pony feltcher?

I'm just asking questions here!


One pony. Geesh, will people ever give that a rest.
 
2012-10-22 01:52:24 PM

bratface: How is dumping it in a landfill any safer? That will not kill the toxin. What happens when other animals (rats, birds, etc.) eat the tainted beef and spread the toxin back into the food chain?


IIRC the beef is being buried in large sealed clay containers that are then buried.
 
2012-10-22 01:52:49 PM

toobsok: Mambo Bananapatch: toobsok: Okay, I don't like her or the Wildrose, but this was blown way out of proportion. She wasn't saying "feed poors tainted beef (wooohh oh oh tainted beef)", she was stating that she thought you could cook out the e.coli and not waste the beef, which CFIA didn't think was possible in this case.

She was wrong and had words put into her mouth, admitted her stupidity, and everybody moves on.

You're correct, but she's still an idiot leading a party that enjoys significant support in an idiotically conservative religious province. So I say, let's get at 'er.

Yes, she is an idiot, so attack her for her policies and her kneejerk reaction to "not wasting". But don't say she was advocating feeding the homeless tainted beef.

And by your last comment, I don't think you truly understand Alberta politics. It's not a religious attitude that keeps Alberta conservative, it's an uneasy history with the Liberal party (the NEP, amongst other things), it's our large pockets of rural ridings (who have always voted conservative and will keep doing it, goddamnit), and the provincial Liberals the same problem the federal Liberals have - they can't pick a good leader to run the provincial party.


I acknowledge that I wildly oversimplified the situation, and that I am not an expert on Alberta politics. I am open to being convinced that the religious right in Alberta politics is not disproportionately influential, or that even a first-class Liberal leader would stand much of a chance in a province which has not elected a Liberal government since, I believe, the Great War.
 
2012-10-22 01:52:52 PM

Magic_Button: DerAppie: /No idea what this "Walkerton Tragedy" is

Small town in Ontario . Where two dim witted brothers ran the town water system very badly for an number of years , Conservative Government of the day provided the lynch-pin in letting " Free market " in so the town did not have to send water tests to government labs using private labs instead ( hooray Free-market Conservative ideology !! ) . So only the brothers ( who never bothered to read the report ) knew the water was tainted . The public heath was silenced by the mayor ( not to ruin the town's ' good name' ) and only a local Doctor brought it to light and a number of people died -- Ontario Conservative legacy


Not that I think privatization of vital infrastructure is a good idea, but how is it the Conservatives or the Private Labs responsibility that "...only the brothers ( who never bothered to read the report ) knew the water was tainted ".

So why is it the Cons fault? The labs tested the water and reported it as tainted.

How would this have not happened if they were still using the public labs... would they have stood over these guys with a stick to make sure they read the reports and corrected the problem?

If not please walk me through the logic of this.
 
2012-10-22 01:53:11 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: mtbhucker: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: [www.cbc.ca image 460x259]

She posed a question, not a suggestion.

Is Abe Vigoda's Ghost a pony feltcher?

I'm just asking questions here!

One pony. Geesh, will people ever give that a rest.


At least someone has a sense of humour around here.
 
2012-10-22 01:54:12 PM

BolivarShagnasty: DerAppie: Okay, but we still haven't gotten an answer. Does cooking the meat kill the bacteria?

Its not so much the bacteria as the toxins they produce.


Actually, as far as I know, the main concern here is the bacteria themselves. Thorough cooking does solve that problem. The toxins are what cause problems once you ingest the bacteria and they start multiplying in your gut, but it's not like botulinum, where the accumulated toxin just in the food can kill you.
 
2012-10-22 01:56:00 PM

mtbhucker: toobsok: mtbhucker: And that's why the WRP will never be relevant, except to the inbred rednecks.

Or, perhaps, to farmers and ranchers who think they would do better economically under a Wildrose government?

I don't support the Wildrose, but I think that there are valid reasons for someone to vote for them. Everybody has a reason for their vote, so don't generalize all Wildrose supporters and don't muddy the discourse by calling Wildrose supporters 'inbred rednecks'.

I live in rural Alberta and was born and raised in Southern Alberta. So yes, a big chunk of them are inbred rednecks with a 4th grade education. One of the reasons WRP did so well was because of land rights issues. Around here, that was the only reason why many ranchers voted for them.


Fair enough, but they were still voting for what they deemed their best interest, ie. land rights. So what's wrong with that? Why bring up their redneckery or inbreeding when you admit that it is about issues pertaining to land rights?
 
2012-10-22 01:56:17 PM

mtbhucker: bratface: How is dumping it in a landfill any safer? That will not kill the toxin. What happens when other animals (rats, birds, etc.) eat the tainted beef and spread the toxin back into the food chain?

IIRC the beef is being buried in large sealed clay containers that are then buried.


And someday, long after this is all forgotten, future archeologists will find these sealed tombs full of meat and think they've unearthed Shub-Niggurath.
 
2012-10-22 01:57:00 PM
One of local health inspectors told me that cooking to a proper tempurature will kill this strain of e coli and make it safe for consumption but the average consumer cannot be trusted to do so. (From Alberta and own a business in an affected industry.)
 
2012-10-22 01:57:13 PM

toobsok:

It seems like every Alberta thread people are reaching for reasons to hate the Wildrose and Conservatives. There are legitimate reasons, and this isn't one of them. I hate this sort of discourse.


So she's sort of like Canada's Obama? Wow.

/I get to early vote today!!!!!!

yay!!!!
 
2012-10-22 01:58:03 PM

Theaetetus: mtbhucker: bratface: How is dumping it in a landfill any safer? That will not kill the toxin. What happens when other animals (rats, birds, etc.) eat the tainted beef and spread the toxin back into the food chain?

IIRC the beef is being buried in large sealed clay containers that are then buried.

And someday, long after this is all forgotten, future archeologists will find these sealed tombs full of meat and think they've unearthed Shub-Niggurath.


haha - this made me lol pretty good. Nice one.
 
2012-10-22 02:01:36 PM

Mambo Bananapatch: toobsok: Mambo Bananapatch:

I acknowledge that I wildly oversimplified the situation, and that I am not an expert on Alberta politics. I am open to being convinced that the religious right in Alberta politics is not disproportionately influential, or that even a first-class Liberal leader would stand much of a chance in a province which has not elected a Liberal government since, I believe, the Great War.


Rationality! As a born and raised Albertan, I haven't really heard religion come up in regards to politics. I mean, Calgary elected the first Muslim mayor in... North America? Or maybe just Canada. And nobody really batted an eye at his religion.

I do think it has more to do with history than religion. Alberta has always been wary of Ontario and Quebec and perhaps has a complex (rightly earned or not is a debatable topic) that the East and the federal Liberal party doesn't have our best interests at heart.

It's engrained in our culture here. And I believe there are good arguments in support of that. And in my opinion, history and spite trumps religious motivations any day.
 
2012-10-22 02:03:23 PM

mcwehrle: toobsok:

It seems like every Alberta thread people are reaching for reasons to hate the Wildrose and Conservatives. There are legitimate reasons, and this isn't one of them. I hate this sort of discourse.

So she's sort of like Canada's Obama? Wow.

/I get to early vote today!!!!!!

yay!!!!


Not even a little.
 
2012-10-22 02:07:12 PM

Theaetetus: toobsok: Okay, I don't like her or the Wildrose, but this was blown way out of proportion. She wasn't saying "feed poors tainted beef (wooohh oh oh tainted beef)", she was stating that she thought you could cook out the e.coli and not waste the beef, which CFIA didn't think was possible in this case.

Yep, because:
Mantour: DerAppie: Okay, but we still haven't gotten an answer. Does cooking the meat kill the bacteria?

No. Not if it is the O157:H7 strain, which causes "hamburger's disease". It is also the strain that caused death in the Walkerton Tragedy.

That's not her fault. I didn't know that there was a verotoxin producing strain until this thread either. I would've thought it was possible to pasteurize the meat too.


IIRC, O157:H7 is so dangerous specifically because of the toxin it produces. E. coli is a common gut resident in many mammals. We carry legions upon legions of them. It's not nice to find any strain riding on food, because it likely means that food came into contact with shiat, which is obviously never something you want to ingest. The O157 variant was the cause of the Jack-in-the-Box outbreak, the one that blew the issue of mass food contamination to public prominence. Killing that particular strain can trigger a mass release of any built-up toxin. Basically, if you find O157 (or any other strains that have evolved similar traits), your only really safe option is to write off that meat plus any other food that came into contact with contaminated gear.

It's freaky seeing every damned thing laid out in chapters 8 and 9 of Fast Food Nation play out all over again. Slaughterhouses with high line speeds, spotty and underprovisioned oversight, denials and CYA press releases, long buildups to massive recalls... I read that book for a course over a decade ago, and those chapters are still perfectly relevant, which in and of itself is a condemnation of Canadian food safety practices.
 
2012-10-22 02:07:15 PM

Salmon: Homeless?

We send them to BC.


Alberta has a homeless problem from May to September. After that, no so much.
 
2012-10-22 02:15:44 PM

xria: The amount of money it would take to feed the poor (in any developed country) is so low that to look into things like this shows a complete lack of perspective (certainly when compared to things like military spending and corporate welfare). The impact on the budget of countries like the US, Canada, most of Europe, etc., is so trivial, and the benefits so high (for example boosting impoverished children's school grades and life/health prospects), the only reason not to do it with proper consumer grade food rather than try to use industrial waste and contaminated meat is to punish the poor for needing help.


Hello?? Is anyone listening? For less than the price of ONE jet fighter, you could in all seriousness feed every hungry person in the US for a year. I think that would be an awesome deal, scrap one fighter feed the hungry. Of course der mittten would not think that is a good idea because that supports poor living on the public dole and Obamarama loves to use his guns, heaven forbid that by feeding the hungry you keep em healthier and out of the hospitals. Oh carape that might even reduce the cost of health care... shhhhh do not tell anyone..
 
2012-10-22 02:22:51 PM

paleryder69: I think that would be an awesome deal, scrap one fighter feed the hungry.


img209.imageshack.us
Yum, nutty. Plenty of iron, too.
 
2012-10-22 02:23:58 PM
Lemme guess. Wild Rose Wingnut?

(clicks)

Yup.
 
2012-10-22 02:24:28 PM

toobsok: mtbhucker: toobsok: mtbhucker: And that's why the WRP will never be relevant, except to the inbred rednecks.

Or, perhaps, to farmers and ranchers who think they would do better economically under a Wildrose government?

I don't support the Wildrose, but I think that there are valid reasons for someone to vote for them. Everybody has a reason for their vote, so don't generalize all Wildrose supporters and don't muddy the discourse by calling Wildrose supporters 'inbred rednecks'.

I live in rural Alberta and was born and raised in Southern Alberta. So yes, a big chunk of them are inbred rednecks with a 4th grade education. One of the reasons WRP did so well was because of land rights issues. Around here, that was the only reason why many ranchers voted for them.

Fair enough, but they were still voting for what they deemed their best interest, ie. land rights. So what's wrong with that? Why bring up their redneckery or inbreeding when you admit that it is about issues pertaining to land rights?


Because they want to pollute and develop the land any way they see fit. Screw the communities and the environment that would be harmed by their actions. All that matters is their own self interest, not the people around them. Many of them proudly proclaim their ignorance and that they don't need none of that science or politicians telling them what to do.
 
2012-10-22 02:26:50 PM
Can the Irish eat their own children so as not to starve?
 
2012-10-22 02:29:46 PM

toobsok:

Not even a little.


Don't misunderstand. I was only speaking with regard to the reaching for anything to hate on. Both sides do that down here as you well know.

Didn't mean to insult. If I did, sorry.
 
2012-10-22 02:34:22 PM

C_Canuk: So why is it the Cons fault? The labs tested the water and reported it as tainted.

How would this have not happened if they were still using the public labs... would they have stood over these guys with a stick to make sure they read the reports and corrected the problem?

If not please walk me through the logic of this.


I know you are a troll or a stupid Conservative , It is not my job to educate you

But the Government lab would have known that the water was bad, very bad and contacted the Ministry of Health as well as local authorities and contacted the Kebol brother by phone and realized he was stupid and side stepped him .

The Private lab just did what is was paid to do , provide a print out of the result.


or as Canadian Conservatives laugh about - Death by a thousand Cold cuts --

The failed Conservative ideology probably made more Canadians vegetarians because of Harper Government's constant mishandling of meat safety then PETA
 
2012-10-22 02:37:06 PM

mtbhucker: toobsok: mtbhucker: toobsok: mtbhucker: And that's why the WRP will never be relevant, except to the inbred rednecks.

Or, perhaps, to farmers and ranchers who think they would do better economically under a Wildrose government?

I don't support the Wildrose, but I think that there are valid reasons for someone to vote for them. Everybody has a reason for their vote, so don't generalize all Wildrose supporters and don't muddy the discourse by calling Wildrose supporters 'inbred rednecks'.

I live in rural Alberta and was born and raised in Southern Alberta. So yes, a big chunk of them are inbred rednecks with a 4th grade education. One of the reasons WRP did so well was because of land rights issues. Around here, that was the only reason why many ranchers voted for them.

Fair enough, but they were still voting for what they deemed their best interest, ie. land rights. So what's wrong with that? Why bring up their redneckery or inbreeding when you admit that it is about issues pertaining to land rights?

Because they want to pollute and develop the land any way they see fit. Screw the communities and the environment that would be harmed by their actions. All that matters is their own self interest, not the people around them. Many of them proudly proclaim their ignorance and that they don't need none of that science or politicians telling them what to do.


Good points. I guess living there gives you a more complete perspective as well as the right to generalize your own community (that sounds sarcastic; it isn't). It's a matter of voting for self vs. voting for community and while I don't think it's necessarily wrong to vote in self interest (extreme self interest, in their case), I respect voting for community a lot more. It's a tougher vote to cast sometimes.
 
2012-10-22 02:37:20 PM
Pre- Coli beef with a side of Muffin Stumps. Delicious!
 
2012-10-22 02:39:38 PM

meanmutton: toobsok: Okay, I don't like her or the Wildrose, but this was blown way out of proportion. She wasn't saying "feed poors tainted beef (wooohh oh oh tainted beef)", she was stating that she thought you could cook out the e.coli and not waste the beef, which CFIA didn't think was possible in this case.

She was wrong and had words put into her mouth, admitted her stupidity, and everybody moves on.

Stop trying to be reasonable!


I would like to start a petition to make this Fark's new motto.
 
2012-10-22 02:39:51 PM

mcwehrle: toobsok:

Not even a little.

Don't misunderstand. I was only speaking with regard to the reaching for anything to hate on. Both sides do that down here as you well know.

Didn't mean to insult. If I did, sorry.


No insult taken! Just wasn't sure if you were comparing policies or hate reaching. I see it was the latter. The big difference is that there really isn't a need to reach for hatred towards the Wildrose party. There are plenty of valid reasons to hate on, not these manufactured controversies.
 
2012-10-22 02:42:14 PM
Usually when I see Smith on TV my automatic response it to shout "Shut up Redneck Barbie, you're not helping." But I have to admit this time I'm not getting that itch. She asked a question, and yes it was most likely to poke at Redford rather then be altruistic, but it was a question that a lot of people were thinking and all that needed to happen was there to be a statement that no it's not an option due to safety concerns. None of this kneejerk, American style, flapping of arms that did happen.
 
2012-10-22 02:43:43 PM

Headso: DerAppie: Does cooking the meat kill the bacteria

E. coli bacteria can survive in the refrigerator and freezer, and it can multiply rapidly in the refrigerator, making E. coli particularly difficult to manage. E. coli will also survive in highly acidic environments, which is also unusual for most food-borne pathogens. They are killed by cooking, however, so the best prevention against E. coli is to heat foods to 160°F or hotter for at least 30 seconds. That means burgers should not be served rare.

Yeah, but it might insult some hobo so we should turn those animals directly into garbage so their deaths were for absolutely no reason.


It's impressive how you can turn this into an insult on homeless people. I'll just assume you spoke to their elected monolithic press representative on the matter?
 
2012-10-22 02:45:13 PM

Magic_Button: C_Canuk: So why is it the Cons fault? The labs tested the water and reported it as tainted.

How would this have not happened if they were still using the public labs... would they have stood over these guys with a stick to make sure they read the reports and corrected the problem?

If not please walk me through the logic of this.

I know you are a troll or a stupid Conservative , It is not my job to educate you



you made a claim that looks ridiculous and blathered a lot of crap about how it's the cons and private industry's fault the people who were paid to safegaurd the water, didn't safegaurd the water.

it is your job to defend your statements.



But the Government lab would have known that the water was bad, very bad and contacted the Ministry of Health as well as local authorities and contacted the Kebol brother by phone and realized he was stupid and side stepped him .



that needs a citation, and if it's true, why didn't you use it to make your pervious comment look intellegent and well informed rather than the mess you did post?



or as Canadian Conservatives laugh about - Death by a thousand Cold cuts --

The failed Conservative ideology probably made more Canadians vegetarians because of Harper Government's constant mishandling of meat safety then PETA


and more unsubstantiated derp

but I'm the troll/idiot

right....
 
2012-10-22 02:47:32 PM
The Wildrose Party is a bunch of ex-PCs and some hardcore right-wingers who think the PC party has gone way down the path to the dreaded liberalism that would enslave, turn gay and abort every Albertan ever, even the ones that are already dead.

The Wildrose Party is merely a faction of the PC party, fueled by media attention and frustrated political morons who would rather take the pill that makes them sick than take no pill at all.

I remember before the election a WRP door-knocker came to my house and introduced the WRP as:

"the party that says, hey government, stay out of my life"

Well, I don't believe the government has any sort of unreasonable intrusion on my life, at all. Sorry.

/fix Alberta's electoral boundaries so that rural ridings aren't so grossly overrepresented
//watch the conservative political stranglehold on Alberta falter
 
2012-10-22 02:49:09 PM
*sigh*

not pervious, previous
 
2012-10-22 03:02:35 PM
The threat from bacterial-borne food illness is two-fold.

Sure you could cook all the meat and kill all the bacteria. The issue is the bacterial toxins that are produced. They are heat-labile meaning they are not broken down heat (cooking)- so they're still effective.

When people get ill from food poisoning there two avenues that determine how sick you will get.

1) The bacterial load you have consumed. Some bacteria like Shigella or Salmonella, they can infect with as little as 10 (sometimes even 1) bacterium. Some other kind of pathogenic E.coli may take maybe 100 to several hundred for an 'effective' dose.

2)The toxins pathogenic bacteria produce. These toxins can screw up the ion permeability of your cell membranes (which leads to violent diarrhea and cramping) or other effects like actual cell death.

These two can act in synergy to get you sick really quickly. This is even more apparent when the bacteria leave the gut and travel through the bloodstream to different organs; causing septicimia and possible organ failure along the way.
 
2012-10-22 03:03:41 PM

Russ1642: CokeBear: Alberta: Canada's Texas.

Oil, Cows, Rednecks and other right-wing nutjobs. The only thing Alberta is missing is Mexicans.

They can't handle our winters.


Explains this:

Paul Brandt - Alberta Bound
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhkcjxLCm8Y

/good song
 
2012-10-22 03:06:28 PM

Magic_Button: C_Canuk: So why is it the Cons fault? The labs tested the water and reported it as tainted.

How would this have not happened if they were still using the public labs... would they have stood over these guys with a stick to make sure they read the reports and corrected the problem?

If not please walk me through the logic of this.

I know you are a troll or a stupid Conservative , It is not my job to educate you

But the Government lab would have known that the water was bad, very bad and contacted the Ministry of Health as well as local authorities and contacted the Kebol brother by phone and realized he was stupid and side stepped him .

The Private lab just did what is was paid to do , provide a print out of the result.


or as Canadian Conservatives laugh about - Death by a thousand Cold cuts --

The failed Conservative ideology probably made more Canadians vegetarians because of Harper Government's constant mishandling of meat safety then PETA


according to Wikipedia at a glance it looks like Mike the Knife did facilitate alternate channels of communication being shut down that may have prevented it, but it still doesn't show me why you think the conservatives or privatized labs fault to the tune you are singing.

FTA

"...For days the Walkerton Public Utilities Commission insisted the water supply was "OK" despite being in possession of laboratory tests that had found evidence of contamination..."

"...During the time of the tragedy, both Stan and Frank Koebel denied any wrongdoing and firmly held that the water at Walkerton was safe to drink. However, as the tragedy grew in severity the two were eventually part of the criminal investigation into the tragedy, and, as a result, both would eventually plead guilty to a charge of common nuisance through a plea bargain. In their plea, they admitted to falsifying reports and Frank admitted to drinking on the job, as a beer fridge did exist at the facility..."



Did Mike Harris' government make changes that allowed this, yes, could they have foreseen that 30 year experienced workers would immediately criminally shiat the bed, no.
 
2012-10-22 03:08:33 PM
 
2012-10-22 03:17:11 PM
So two benefits then?

Less hungry people.
 
2012-10-22 03:31:22 PM
I remember learning more and more about her as the election went on.

Nuttier than squirrel shiat.
 
2012-10-22 03:34:05 PM
What time, and how tainted?
 
2012-10-22 03:34:53 PM
Wait wait wait, is she seriously suggesting to give the meat to the poor? Feed the hungry? For free? That isn't the America I know of
 
2012-10-22 03:36:34 PM
It doesn't seem like an entirely invalid question. What fraction of the beef you see at the store on a given day is infected with E. coli? 1 in 20? That's high enough that if toxins were really a huge concern we'd be trying a hell of a lot harder. Which means known infected beef certainly has a value greater than zero.
 
2012-10-22 03:46:53 PM
Has nobody taken a Food Science class?

The more heat you apply to a food, the greater the percentage of bacteria will be destroyed, but it's still virtually impossible to guarantee that food is absolutely safe unless all the nutrition is cooked out of it too. (And that's where Dinty Moore Beef Stew comes from.)

Feeding people a food product prepared with knowingly tainted ingredients is just asking for a lawsuit from the family of the poor chump who eats it and gets sick.
 
2012-10-22 04:00:35 PM

poot_rootbeer: Has nobody taken a Food Science class?


Uhhhh, nope!
 
2012-10-22 04:05:22 PM
I eat burgers close to raw, so I have to buy local, so I am familiar with the source, to minimize risk, Yeah, ground sirloin is eight dollars a pound, but once you've gone raw, it's hard to go back.
 
2012-10-22 04:06:57 PM

Mantour: DerAppie: Okay, but we still haven't gotten an answer. Does cooking the meat kill the bacteria?

No. Not if it is the O157:H7 strain, which causes "hamburger's disease". It is also the strain that caused death in the Walkerton Tragedy.

Verotoxin-producing E.Coli


From your own link, if I follow the link specifically to O157:H7, it says this:

Cooking all ground beef and hamburgers thoroughly, and checking the temperature using an instant-read meat thermometer, will eliminate the organism. Ground beef should be cooked until a thermometer inserted into several parts of the patty, including the thickest part, reads at least 72 °C (162 °F).

So, someone still seems to think proper thorough cooking will still eliminate the danger even from this verotoxin-producing e.coli...
 
2012-10-22 04:19:57 PM

C_Canuk: according to Wikipedia at a glance it looks like Mike the Knife did facilitate alternate channels of communication being shut down that may have prevented it, but it still doesn't show me why you think the conservatives or privatized labs fault to the tune you are singing.

FTA

"...For days the Walkerton Public Utilities Commission insisted the water supply was "OK" despite being in possession of laboratory tests that had found evidence of contamination..."

"...During the time of the tragedy, both Stan and Frank Koebel denied any wrongdoing and firmly held that the water at Walkerton was safe to drink. However, as the tragedy grew in severity the two were eventually part of the criminal investigation into the tragedy, and, as a result, both would eventually plead guilty to a charge of common nuisance through a plea bargain. In their plea, they admitted to falsifying reports and Frank admitted to drinking on the job, as a beer fridge did exist at the facility..."

Did Mike Harris' government make changes that allowed this, yes, could they have foreseen that 30 year experienced workers would immediately criminally shiat the bed, no.


The O'Connor Report said that the Harris government was partly to blame and ignored repeated warnings.

Harris commissioned the O'Connor Report, himself.

This is a matter of record.
 
2012-10-22 04:40:01 PM

RobSeace: Mantour: DerAppie: Okay, but we still haven't gotten an answer. Does cooking the meat kill the bacteria?

No. Not if it is the O157:H7 strain, which causes "hamburger's disease". It is also the strain that caused death in the Walkerton Tragedy.

Verotoxin-producing E.Coli

From your own link, if I follow the link specifically to O157:H7, it says this:

Cooking all ground beef and hamburgers thoroughly, and checking the temperature using an instant-read meat thermometer, will eliminate the organism. Ground beef should be cooked until a thermometer inserted into several parts of the patty, including the thickest part, reads at least 72 °C (162 °F).

So, someone still seems to think proper thorough cooking will still eliminate the danger even from this verotoxin-producing e.coli...


Thank you for the correction. Indeed, cooking eliminates the bacteria, of course but not the risk inherited by the toxin.

PlatinumDragon: Theaetetus: toobsok: Okay, I don't like her or the Wildrose, but this was blown way out of proportion. She wasn't saying "feed poors tainted beef (wooohh oh oh tainted beef)", she was stating that she thought you could cook out the e.coli and not waste the beef, which CFIA didn't think was possible in this case.

Yep, because:
Mantour: DerAppie: Okay, but we still haven't gotten an answer. Does cooking the meat kill the bacteria?

No. Not if it is the O157:H7 strain, which causes "hamburger's disease". It is also the strain that caused death in the Walkerton Tragedy.

That's not her fault. I didn't know that there was a verotoxin producing strain until this thread either. I would've thought it was possible to pasteurize the meat too.

IIRC, O157:H7 is so dangerous specifically because of the toxin it produces. E. coli is a common gut resident in many mammals. We carry legions upon legions of them. It's not nice to find any strain riding on food, because it likely means that food came into contact with shiat, which is obviously never something you want to ingest. The O157 variant was the cause of the Jack-in-the-Box outbreak, the one that blew the issue of mass food contamination to public prominence. Killing that particular strain can trigger a mass release of any built-up toxin. Basically, if you find O157 (or any other strains that have evolved similar traits), your only really safe option is to write off that meat plus any other food that came into contact with contaminated gear.

It's freaky seeing every damned thing laid out in chapters 8 and 9 of Fast Food Nation play out all over again. Slaughterhouses with high line speeds, spotty and underprovisioned oversight, denials and CYA press releases, long buildups to massive recalls... I read that book for a course over a decade ago, and those chapters are still perfectly relevant, which in and of itself is a condemnation of Canadian food safety practices.


Thank you for elaborating more on the subject. Indeed, the problem is not the meat but the quality of butchers. If the cuts are well done, there is no issue to worry about. That is why butchers have to learn the trade at trade school (NAIT, SAIT,..)

The slaughterhouse is in Brooks, ( Food XL). It is known to employ lots of immigrants, (Somali, Mali,...) and I fear that they are simply not educated enough to their the job properly, or they are told to do jobs that only a Trained butcher should do.
 
2012-10-22 05:07:16 PM

Mantour: Thank you for the correction. Indeed, cooking eliminates the bacteria, of course but not the risk inherited by the toxin.


I'm curious if anyone ever really has gotten sick from just residual toxin leftover in the meat after a thorough cooking, as opposed to toxin produced in one's guts by living bacteria acquired through undercooking the meat? It sounds more like a "better safe than sorry" thing than an actual major threat...

/I still wouldn't eat the known infected meat no matter how well cooked, and wouldn't expect anyone else to...
 
2012-10-22 06:30:26 PM
CokeBear: Alberta: Canada's Texas.
Oil, Cows, Rednecks and other right-wing nutjobs. The only thing Alberta is missing is Mexicans.

We have Americans instead.
 
2012-10-22 06:49:49 PM
Wow, a thread about an Alberta politician speaking about Alberta current events gets hijacked to discuss things that happened in Ontario twelve years ago.

Ever wonder WHY so many otherwise rational, intelligent Albertans vote for conservatives?
 
2012-10-22 07:02:03 PM
I'm hungry now.
 
2012-10-22 07:41:44 PM
I'm already tired of the conservative clap-trap of the Wild Rose Party.

upload.wikimedia.org

I suggest we start a Gypsy Rose Lee Party.

She has her own theme song, already. Saves us mucho denero. 

Speaking of parties, that some wild curtains she has there. You can see them better by clicking through to the large size at Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gypsy_Rose_Lee
 
2012-10-22 08:36:29 PM

CokeBear: Alberta: Canada's Texas.

Oil, Cows, Rednecks and other right-wing nutjobs. The only thing Alberta is missing is Mexicans.


I looked up this Wildrose Party, and it sounds like a (slightly) more moderate version of the Republican Party here in the US....

If there's ever a merger between Canada and the US, I'm sure those people would fit right in...they look pretty bootstrappy to me.

/ I wouldn't vote for these schlubs if I saw them on my ballot...
 
2012-10-22 09:46:54 PM
towatchoverme:

Did Mike Harris' government make changes that allowed this, yes, could they have foreseen that 30 year experienced workers would immediately criminally shiat the bed, no.

The O'Connor Report said that the Harris government was partly to blame and ignored repeated warnings.

Harris commissioned the O'Connor Report, himself.

This is a matter of record.


Fair enough. I just get tired of hearing how all conservatives are to blame for Walkerton when it was really 90% the fault of the dicks running the place, and they didn't have this problem else where.

I was mainly pointing out to the liberal fanboy that he's not half as smart as he smugly thinks he is, and his misrepresentation of the facts so he can sling mud at the other team is exactly what's wrong with this country.

Liberal, Conservative, Dipper, Bloc: they all lie, they all fark up, and none of them have even most of the answers so people need to stop being a party dick suck, vote for the best MP you can, and make it hurt when they fark around or lie.

But no...

We have Conservative fan boys sucking Harper's dick while misrepresenting the liberals to make them look evil.

We have Liberal Fan boys sucking whatever clown is running their party this week doing the same.

We have Dippers living in a dream world that doesn't come close to what exists, slinging mud at everyone else.

This country a ship circling the farking drain and we're all too busy having a food fight to get someone on the wheel who knows what they're doing
 
2012-10-22 10:52:06 PM

RobSeace: Mantour: DerAppie: Okay, but we still haven't gotten an answer. Does cooking the meat kill the bacteria?

No. Not if it is the O157:H7 strain, which causes "hamburger's disease". It is also the strain that caused death in the Walkerton Tragedy.

Verotoxin-producing E.Coli

From your own link, if I follow the link specifically to O157:H7, it says this:

Cooking all ground beef and hamburgers thoroughly, and checking the temperature using an instant-read meat thermometer, will eliminate the organism. Ground beef should be cooked until a thermometer inserted into several parts of the patty, including the thickest part, reads at least 72 °C (162 °F).

So, someone still seems to think proper thorough cooking will still eliminate the danger even from this verotoxin-producing e.coli...


Then you'd better hope every last tiny blob of beef gets thoroughly cooked. From what I've read (admittedly not extensively), as few as five individuals riding a single, small uncooked piece can be a source of successful infection. It's a very successful, resilient, fast-reproducing organism that our immune systems mostly recognize and tolerate, and the toxin produced by O157:H7's is the really deadly aspect of reported e. coli contamination. It can, and does, damage organs beyond repair in children under five and the elderly through a condition called hemolytic uremic syndrome - basically, kidney failure and cascading organ failures from mass cell death caused by the toxin. It causes horrible, lingering deaths in some, and more often painful, bloody diarrhea.

Whose butt are you willing to gamble on the consistency of cooking devices and their operators?
 
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