ourbigdumbmouth: Slaves2Darkness: This is a really stupid idea because we would be bankrupting ourselves.Here's a quick and fascinating breakdown by total amount held and percentage of total U.S. debt, according to Business Insider:The U.S. Treasury: $1.63 trillion (11.3 percent)Social Security trust fund: $2.67 trillion (19 percent)U.S. households: $959.4 billion (6.6 percent)Private pension funds: $504.7 billion (3.5 percent)State and local governments: $506.1 billion (3.5 percent)Mutual funds: $300.5 billion (2 percent)Commercial banks: $301.8 billion (2.1 percent)State, local and federal retirement funds: $320.9 billion (2.2 percent)Money market mutual funds: $337.7 billion (2.4 percent)Hong Kong: $121.9 billion (0.9 percent)Caribbean banking centers: $148.3 (1 percent)Taiwan: $153.4 billion (1.1 percent)Brazil: $211.4 billion (1.5 percent)Oil exporting countries: $229.8 billion (1.6 percent)United Kingdom: $346.5 billion (2.4 percent)Japan: $912.4 billion (6.4 percent)China: $1.16 trillion (8 percent)We owe foreign firms, countries, and other entities about 4.5 trillion dollars and we owe US firms, people, and entities 9.8 trillion dollars.Why the fark would we the American People cancel the debt or default? How does that make any sense at all?Now that is a good question.
mizchief: Under the current system the banks have no problem letting people default since the money wasn't real to begin with and they end up with the actual property without really doing anything, while the rest of us work our asses off to either build the house or work for other bank-owned corporations hard enough to squat in the bank-owned house for 30 years.
misanthropologist: Amos Quito: Sounds like a great idea... but[2.bp.blogspot.com image 578x522]Coming from the IMF???I know, right? This is the New World Order that was prophesied years ago. This is Obama's black helicopters and white tanks rolling through American cities to implement universal communism the day after he gets re-elected. This is the end of the world as we know it, friends, and the beginning of the Tribulation.Or so Mitt's big money backers will have us believe, soon enough. Why have they not seized on this as part of their anti-Obama ad campaigns?
david_gaithersburg: Hey dickhole, try reading what I was responding too.Reading, wtf is it?
TDBoedy: because a massive contraction in the money supply over night could in no way have adverse consequences.
bunner: DerAppie: Don't you have friends or family?You know how rich people tend to be related to rich people?
Kazan: slayer199: Uh, no. Ron Paul is supported by libertarian-leaning Republicans, not Libertarians. I don't know any Libertarians that support Ron Paul. He's a Republican with some libertarian-leaning ideas....almost every farking Libertarian i have ever met is just a randite republican embarassed to call themselves republican.there are almost not "little l" libertarians in the united states. which you're trying to claim to be. and quite frankly i don't buy what you're selling based on your posting history.
DerAppie: bunner: DerAppie: Don't you have friends or family?You know how rich people tend to be related to rich people?Yeah, except that my parents aren't rich. While growing up they made less than the national median income. Beyond that it is about being smart with your money. I'm currently without a full time jobs (work 15 hours a week as a cleaner just to make ends meet) and live on €155 a week. The only reason I'm not on government aid is because I refuse to apply for as long as I can pay my own bills. This means that I have less than €5 Euro a day to spend on food. Which is very, very easy by the way. If an appliance breaks, or I need new clothes, I have money in the bank from when times were better. Once I find full time employment I will replenish what I used to prepare for the next downturn. Is it that strange to expect the government or a bank to work on the same principle? Don't spend what you don't have./Yeah, I'm very rich and on top of the world
Arkanaut: BTW:We return to the historical norm, before Charles II placed control of the money supply in private hands with the English Free Coinage Act of 1666.Yeah, this isn't going to alarm any conspiracy theorists.
jaytkay: I love how libertarians tell us we don't know how "the real world works".There isn't a single place on Earth where their ideas have created a decent society.
DerAppie: Elegy: No fractional reserve banking? Good luck getting credit....Live within your means and you won't need credit.
skullkrusher: If I am a bank and you came to me with $500 and I promised to give you $550 a year from now, I can lend that $500 out without violating the 100% reserve requirement. However, if you came to me with $500 which you could demand at any time, I would be in violation if I were to lend out that money.
slayer199: There isn't a single place on earth where it's been tried....and no, Somalia isn't one of them.
slayer199: I don't know any Libertarians that support Ron Paul
YixilTesiphon: OK, but why did any company need to buy it? The banks clearly didn't learn the lesson, which they would have had they been allowed to self-destruct.GM was ridiculous too. It had actual hard assets that people would have been interested in acquiring had it gone under, but instead the thing was kept alive.
clyph: Except, you know, the actual Libertarian Party, which nominated him for President in the 1988 election.
BHK: Yeah, that's a great idea, let's copy the Romans of the 5th century! In another hundred years we'll have a return to feudalism as debt/tax slaves sell their lives to their oligarchic overlords in order to gain protection from those taxes and debt.
RanDomino: The same reasoning that says "BANKS AM PRINTIN MONIEZ!!" might as well be saying "MONEY'S JUST LITTLE GREEN PIECES OF PAPER!! IT'S NOT REAL!!!".
bunner: poor people tend to be related to poor people with very little venture capital handy.
This text is now purple: Arkanaut: BTW:We return to the historical norm, before Charles II placed control of the money supply in private hands with the English Free Coinage Act of 1666.Yeah, this isn't going to alarm any conspiracy theorists.Didn't the zenith of the British Empire start right around 1666? Seems private control of the money supply in general worked out well for what was otherwise a backward, inhospitable little island that even the Vikings didn't particularly want.
muck4doo: slayer199: ghare: No, we understand the LP just fine: nuts, who used to be Republicans but are now embarrassed to admit it. But mostly nuts.mr lawson: man...don't even try. The left will never understand and the right just thinks we are godless heathens.Good advice.Yeah, never argue with an idiot. Ghare certainly is one, and he is always concerned about Mexicans as well.
slayer199: Kazan: yes. you've voted US Libertarian party. thank you for proving my point you that are NOT a little-l libertarian but a united states "big-L" libertarian.I'm still a small-l libertarian who votes LP. That also means we don't support Ron Paul, we're not all Randites, and we're not all minarchists. But thanks for the generalizationconclusions based upon observation of nearly all self-identifying LP supporters.
shortymac: I think I am, I know the "free market" will not cure all ills, we still need some government and regulation, I think pot should be legal but not necessarily all drugs. I also believe in universal health care because it levels the playing field and makes it easier for the average joe to start his own business.I decided to shed labels though, it's all loaded bullshiat.
poot_rootbeer: And why hasn't it been tried anywhere? Nowhere in the real world real enough to be compatible with libertarianism?
slayer199: jaytkay: I love how libertarians tell us we don't know how "the real world works".There isn't a single place on Earth where their ideas have created a decent society.There isn't a single place on earth where it's been tried....and no, Somalia isn't one of them.
DerAppie: You need venture capital? Do you know what rich people like? becoming even richer. Write a decent business plan and get your idea out there. If you can convince people that you can make a profit there will be someone willing to invest.
Slaves2Darkness: We owe foreign firms, countries, and other entities about 4.5 trillion dollars and we owe US firms, people, and entities 9.8 trillion dollars.Why the fark would we the American People cancel the debt or default? How does that make any sense at all?
Kazan: most real-libertarians don't self-identify as "Libertarian" was part of my point
This text is now purple: skullkrusher: If I am a bank and you came to me with $500 and I promised to give you $550 a year from now, I can lend that $500 out without violating the 100% reserve requirement. However, if you came to me with $500 which you could demand at any time, I would be in violation if I were to lend out that money.Banks already do this. It's called safe deposit boxes.The catch is that they charge you interest, not the other way around.
slayer199: 1. Ron Paul is not a libertarian, is not widely supported by libertarians.2. Libertarianism is not the same as Randianism.
RanDomino: Yeah it sucks how everyone always demands all their money back immediately after depositing it, thus preventing banks from just having enough cash on hand to cover day-to-day withdrawals and using the rest to make loans.
mizchief: jigger: TDBoedy: because a massive contraction in the money supply over night could in no way have adverse consequences.What makes you think the US Congress would issue less currency? If anything they'll issue more as a sort of vote buying scheme.fark it. Lets just use bitcoins
SageC: Ricardo Klement: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRGGGHHHHH!*sploosh*Now that my head exploded, fractional reserve banking is not some magical power to conjure forth money. It is a mathematical side-effect of lending out money and accepting deposits. If I lend Bob $20, and he buys a bottle of cheap whiskey from Jack, who then asks me to hang on to the cash for him because he doesn't have pockets, and then I lend that $20 to Bill, I just created money. And I am not a bank, and I am not regulated by the feds.No you didn't! You just gave Bill the money Jack told you to hang on to even though it wasn't yours to give. You're not a money creator, you're a jerk who spends other people's money! Go get Jack's money back before he hears about what you did and deposits his fist into your face.
mr lawson: Ricardo Klement: And I'm a supply-side classical economist.There is no such thing as "supply-side" or "demand-side" economics. Only Capital-side economics.
slayer199: poot_rootbeer: And why hasn't it been tried anywhere? Nowhere in the real world real enough to be compatible with libertarianism?Because the idea of individual liberty and smaller government scares people. One only needs to look at the reactions in this thread. People WANT to be taken care of. People are fearful of the personal responsibility aspect of individual liberty. So to many, ceding individual liberty for government power is an acceptable choice.That isn't to say government is NOT necessary. It's just that there's few limitations on the power of the Federal government at this point. People want to wave a flag for their party and say, "My Guy is different, when he gets in things will change!" The truth is that neither party returns government powers taken by their predecessor. Look at Obama's promise not to use federal resources for going after states that have legalized medical marijuana. Gitmo is still open. He's increased drone strikes. Has he been more transparent? No. I'm not just pinning this only on Obama, it's just the way our two-party system is functioning. There's very little difference between the two parties. They both increase the size and power of the federal government at the expense of individual liberty. Will Romney remove the HCRA? No.
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